Well, today marks the death of all specialist games from GW, with every last trace of their existence wiped from the new website.
Which ones did you play, what was your favourite? Are you still going to get some games in even after the final nail in the coffin, or are you moving on to other games?
I've played pretty much all of them at some point or another (even dungeonbowl), and played BFG back when it was cardboard counters in an issue of white dwarf (how cool was that, entire game in the magazine).
Then Mordheim caught my interest with the beta rules in White Dwarf, and the boxed game was just awesome when it was released. Easily my favourite out of all the specialist games, the atmosphere was great, rules were always fun and the campaign system worked well. Great game.
Currently I've moved on to Mantic's Deadzone but am really looking forward to them doing their major relaunch of Dwarf King's Hold, hopefully to a warhammer quest level of quality, and there are rumours of a fantasy skirmish game and terrain too. It looks like Dropzone Commander will eventually end up as the new Epic, it isn't quite there yet, but a few more plastic sprues and it could start to look very tempting, the terrain is just as cool as the old epic ruins, a huge mass of table-covering buildings.
It's a real shame that the specialist games aren't around anymore, they could have been extremely easy to relaunch... take Necromunda as an example... 5 mini boxsets for the gangs, loaded with all sorts of gear (like the IG command squad boxes), and then a generic terrain set. Wouldn't have taken much effort at all, or much in the way of shelf space/product SKUs to stock and could have served as a great intro game to 40k.
I mainly played Gorkamorka and Necromunda, I've got lots of Inquisitor stuff just because I like the figures, but I've got the rules too. Specialist Games died a long time ago. In fact, branding them 'Specialist Games' was problem enough as it marked when GW stopped making games and only wanted to make Fantasy and 40K. Everything else was treated like the bastard child afterwards, no support, limited model releases, huge prices and dwindling stock. Not everyone wants to play massive battle games, but that's the mould GW want the customer to fit and if you don't then they don't want your custom.
The writing had been on the wall since the huge reduction of the specialist games catalog, but it's sad to finally see even the rules gone. That being said, there are so many places online where you can get the rules (or updated/modified versions of the rules) for free. Even so, models are floating around on eBay, and it's easy enough to convert your Mordheim/Necromunda/Gorkamorka/Inquisitor 28mm gangs.
I played a lot of Necromunda over the summer using the community edition rules and had a great time. I urge other folks to try it since it's really fun, learns fairly quickly, and you only need a handful of models to play.
The very first game I played of something 40kish was a mash up of 2nd edition rules and Gorkamorka based around necrons waking up on the Gorkamorka world and attacking an ork fort.
I think Gorkamorka proper was the first specialist game I played, although it was just a game or two.
I got a bunch of Epic 40k in the sale when they were killing it off. I think I ended up with about 4 Marine companies worth. I only ever had a few games of it too... I just found it really messy and I was constantly getting the detachments confused. I'm into Dropzone Commander now and I am really having a good time with that but I need to play more full sized games.
I bought the inquisitor and necromunda rulebooks cheap but never got into them. I did buy and paint up the Battle Brother Artemis model as my Blood Ravens mascot though.
I started warmaster, got a few units together. Then it died. Oh well...
Blood bowl, bought the computer game 5 years ago, hated it. Dreadball is much better for me.
I play a game of Battlefleet Gothic every few years... Well half a game, we tend to go a bit overboard in our game sizes...
The Space Hulk 2009 set is dragged out for a game occasionally too.
For me it was BFG and Mordheim.
I still play Mordheim with my group. It breaks up the same-old, same-old of WHFB. The minis are great and I incorporate a lot of them throughout my WHFB Armies.
I have Chaos and Eldar fleets. Probably sell those...
The thing with Epic is that the minis - particularly the small ones - were never that great, so while I enjoyed the game, I never really developed a strong attachment to it.
They could do great things nowadays with their digital plastic sculpting wotnots, especially if they increased the scale to a FoW type size.
I like the concept of the specialist games. I have small imperial and chaos BFG fleets, plus the rules and some supplements. I picked up the rule books for Inquisitor and Warmaster, and the Mordheim box.
But to be honest, I’m not sure if I ever played a game of any of them. Maybe a sample game of BFG.
These days I don’t get to my FLGS often enough to compete in anything like a continuing league. And even when I did spend far more time at the store, the specialist games never had enough traction to guarantee a game as a casual pickup. And all the organized play was focused on 40k/WHFB. There was a gorkamorka league at the store south of me when it came out, but between the cost and effort of picking up a new game and the travel, I passed on that one.
scarletsquig wrote: Which ones did you play, what was your favourite? Are you still going to get some games in even after the final nail in the coffin, or are you moving on to other games?
I won't talk about Inquisitor or BFG, since I've never seen anyone actually playing them, but games like Epic, Warmaster or Necromunda are dead.
I suppose they could be revived. After all, finding minis for Necromunda isn't that difficult. Onslaught, Dark Realms and Exodus (among others) makes suitable minis for Epic, and you could build most Warmaster armies with either 10mm (Pendraken/Kallistra...) or 6mm minis (Baccus/H&R/Irregular/Microworld...).
But people didn't even bother with these games when they were still sold as Specialist Games...
On the other hand, some Specialist Games work pretty well.
It's actually easier to find willing players for a Bloodbowl or Mordheim game than for most of the GW core games.
I never had an opportunity to play any of the specialist games, but Necromunda and Epic have long intrigued me. I think I would really enjoy Epic but looking at the prices of GW figures for that game I have no interest in building an army.
I played GoMo, Mordheim, and Blood Bowl personally.
I really love GoMo, but the rules have some issues. That's sort of the specialist game theme: fun, characterful, interesting, and the rules have a few problems. Gretchin Revolutionary Committee forever!
Mordheim is plenty fun and great for campaigns. In my area, Halloween is the traditional time for an ill-fated Mordheim campaign that inevitably fizzles by December.
Before I opened up the thread, I made a mental bet scarletsquig would bring up Deadzone. He did not disappoint.
For me, Specialist Games were a mixed bag. On the whole, the 28mm offshoots of the two main games were poor, the rest was okay.
Man'o'War was a nice game in theory, but the execution left a lot to be desired. It was a dull experience and grossly unbalanced. BFG was better, but far from perfect. The models were boring - not enough Xeno variety, only an array of identical-looking cathedral ships.
Bloodbowl I have not played (no interest in sports games), but I heard it was decent. Epic was GW's best game hands down and made for a great spectacle. I'd trade 40K for Epic any day. Inquisitor was a mess and the miniatures were poor for that scale even back in the day. It's no wonder it died rather quickly. Warmaster was so-so; kind of bland, really.
Mordheim and Necromunda had intriguing fluff and nice figures for the most part, but their rules were awful. Over-complicated, unbalanced, bereft of tactical decisions and options. Necromunda came around the time of Warzone and was worse in every regard (except maybe balance - Warzone was easily broken). Mordheim came after Stargrunt II and Chronopia and was a huge letdown. It has its charm setting-wise, but the rules are a disgrace. It had none of the upsides a skirmish-type game should have over a mass battle game like WFB. It was too constrained by all the shortcomings of its parent game and should've been a brand new set of mechanics. It wasn't good at the time of its release and 15 hears later its an utterly horrible gaming experience.
All in all, Epic had the potential to be a huge game, but that potential was squandered. GW should've also come up with two proper skirmish games befitting the 21st century, replacing Necromunda and Mordheim, but they were content to see them waste away instead.
EDIT: Forgot about Gorka Morka. I don't particularly care for Orks, so it didn't interest me. Too one-dimensional, probably the reason it got sidelined.
I will really miss the minis. BloodBowl had some of the most characterful and fun minis in the range [back when GW had a sense of humour, before everything became GrimDark]. I also love the Necromunda models - Redemptionists and Arbites are my current Ebay Holy Grail [unfortunately both go for ridiculous amounts].
Space Hulk is brilliant IMO and I'm a proud owner of a set. I think the two games that I would really be interested in taking up if they were still supported are Epic and BFG. Ok I could Ebay the models but it would take a long time and the BFG models go for silly amounts. Also, none of my mates are interested in playing either.
i started a enforcer war band but never found anyone to play against for necromunder. as for Mordhiem again i started a war band of pirates with some fun conversions but couldn't find any regular opponents.
BFG - Love this game, and would still play it all the time if I could find more opponents.
Epic - Awesome, Especially titan heavy games. Some of the most fun I've ever had were games of Adeptus Titanicus were 12 people were playing each using one titan each.
The 4th edition (epic Armageddon) is possibly the best rule set GW has ever produced.
Necromunda - so many fond memory's of campaign's. No other game has ever quite matched it for me.
Warhammer Quest - the only reason I ever got into Warhammer. GW could so use a new version of this as an entry game.
Space Hulk - the first GW game I ever played, the reason I'm here.
I think all of these games are better than the sorry stat of 40K and warhammer right now.
I happen to have an unopened copy of gorkamorka lying around. I've never played the game but am tempted to give it a go as my next gaming project.
I gathered all the specialist games PDF's long ago as it was obvious GW would do this for a while. This did not take by surprise at all, GW has a bizarre hatred of specialist games.
I enjoyed all the Specialist Games. I miss them greatly as a lot of my stuff has been lost over the years. I'm always on the lookout to try and find a new skirmish game/mass battle that gives me what I'm looking for.
Mordheim was really my first minis game. Despite painting minis for years, I'd only used them for D&D. But the dark tone and crazy dudes with fish and puppets suckered me in and some buddies and I played multiple times a week one year in college. To Mordheim - you may not have had the best rules, but you were a lot of fun. May Bobo Wombat, the super fast leaping ghoul live on forever.
Necromunda and Mordheim did get some of my attention through the years, but my true love was (and still is) Inquisitor - which I have no plans to stop playing.
Despite the rules lacking a lot of polish, I just haven't found anything that can replace the feel and potential of Inquisitor - neither truly a skirmish nor truly a roleplay, it offers unique experiences not found in either.
Roleplay games don't open the opportunity to use an entire ready-developed cast of characters, and their rules seldom work well for PvP play. Skirmish games don't offer an attachment to the characters, nor the rules freedom for some truly thrilling heroics.
What I think I'm most going to miss though, given the way things seem to be turning out, is getting involved in WHW events where passers-by keep doing double takes:
Of the Specialist Games, my two personal favorites were Blood Bowl and Battlefleet Gothic. I think Blood Bowl has the best fluff GW ever wrote, and I think BFG is the best game GW ever made. During the great SG sell off of 2013, I spent way too much money buying up as much BFG as I could from the US, UK, and Australian websites to complete multiple fleets.
When that one preview page of the Horus Heresy Book 3 came out, showing Perturabo's flagship, I (metaphorically) shed a tear, thinking about how awesome it would be if BFG were still supported and Forgeworld did Horus Heresy rules and models for it, too.
And GW simply allowed these games to die. Sure, the nature of the SGs were that, after you bought your fleet/warband/team/etc., sales would dwindle. But all GW needed to do was cycle through the different games, phasing one out to release another one each year, and it would have been a constant moneymaker for them. By the time a game would come back around in the cycle, it would have been 4-5 years since it was phased out and now there would be a whole new crop of players ready to buy in.
We can only hope that, when the eventual buyout of GW comes, the new owners will see the value in these games that have already been made, with the molds just collecting dust on the factory shelves.
Also need to note that there's no reason for specialist games to be dead. You can find the rules easily online and the models are all over real gaming sites/ebay. GW can only make the hobby as miserable for you as you let them. Separate yourself from GW and the specialist games will live on.
The only GW games that I still play:
Mordheim! (Huzzah! - best game that GW ever made!)
Necromunda (The second best game that GW ever made! I am in a campaign right now.)
Warhammer Quest. (A beer and pretzels game! That we play while drinking beer and eating pretzels! (The beer and pretzels started as a joke, and then became tradition.))
I love Mordheim - Coreheim is okay, but just not as much fun as the original.
Deadzone compared to Necromunda.... I'll gladly play either one. I think I prefer Necromunda, by maybe this much: -] [-
To this day Necromunda remains my fav GW game. I've had more fun playing that game than any other game, GW or otherwise. It's a shame to see such a thing so callously killed off.
I also regret never getting into Battlefleet Gothic. It came about during a time when I wasn't playing 40K or any games for that matter, so I missed outn and never got around to it when I came back.
I have my Orc, Goblin, Lizardmen and Human teams for Blood Bowl, and a friend of mine has virtually every team ever made as well, so that's nice.
Never much cared for the rest, but it's sad to see such potential ignored and thrown away.
[EDIT]: Special mention goes to Warhammer Quest. It wasn't really a specialist game in the sense that by the time the concept of "Specialist Games" came about Warhammer Quest (plus Gorka Morka and Man'O'War) was basically forgotten. It was the first Warhammer Fantasy game I ever played, and I still love it. I own basically everything ever made for Quest (aside from the Brettonian Knight), and it's a hilarious fun and unfair game.
I got into Epic when it was called Space Marine and it *wasn't* a specialist game. Some of the most fun games I've ever had were with that system. To this day I remain certain that if I ever made my own gaming system it'd borrow heavily from Epic, especially the orders system.
I'd love to see someone try to play a game of 40k using the Epic rules.
I tried Space Marine, but it was impossible to get enough of the specialist units for Eldar to make it worth playing.
I still have a giant pile of unpainted Chaos Warriors for Warmaster. I only ever got in two games, but I liked them well enough. The mass battle feel without casualty removal was what essentially got me into Kings of War.
Part way through a season at a local Bloodbowl league. All the block dice, pitch boards, throwing templates and 90%+ of the teams, not made by GW. The community has basically taken that game from GW and they aren't giving it back.
Been playing and still will be playing Epic for a very long time. Got into it just after 2nd edition came out in 1991 and have played every edition since. Titans, massed tanks, huge sweeping battles. I feel the Epic Armageddon ruleset is the finest ruleset put out by GW. Compared to that, 40k is a joke.
BFG deserves special mention as does Aeronautica Imperialis. Spaceships and planes. What's not to love?
Warhammer Quest and Spacehulk, though not technically SG, still get played and enjoyed.
Tis a crying shame that these have been discontinued in the pursuit of short term profits. They all, by themselves, enriched the background massively. Also nothing beats running a huge campaign that chronicles a planetary invasion that goes from BFG->Aeronautica Imperials->Epic->40K and back again to really bring scale to those conflicts. Now that is how you build a narrative!
Gorkamorka! I think that's probably my favourite specialist game. We still play a lot of bloodbowl and we ran a Mordheim and Necromunda campaign last year, but Gorkamorka is the epitomy of a non-competitive, narrative forging game in my eyes. It does have some issues, but with the right group of people it can be amazing. And the digga-shaman is one of the best citadel miniatures ever.
On a side note I believe the deffkopta in the ork range is one of the special characters from Gorkamorka, so it's legacy continues!
I loved the specialist games, for a while I was playing Epic and Warmaster more than 40K of Fantasy. If GW hadn’t sidelined them I may well have dumped the parent games indefinitely. Perhaps there where others likes me and that’s why they got rid of them?
The good thing is that even if you don't want to go on an Ebay hunt there are still lots of companies out there making 6mm sci-fi and 10mm Fantasy.
I always wished I could play BFG! And if my store does a bloodbowl league, I've been waiting to give that a try, too. Ah well... there are many other games out there and maybe one day we'll get into Firestorm Armada, instead.
Big P wrote: The only GW games I still play are specialists.
Me too.
I still love to play Aeronautica Imperialis (probably not a true Specialist Game as it was from FW), but I typically provide everything for my opponent.
Play Gorkamorka with my daughter, and she usually beats me.
Still play Blood Bowl all the time and with the most other people.
Use to play Necromunda all the time, still have all the stuff.
Use to play a lot foBFG too.
I have an Inq28 warband, but have never played
Have the rules, but have never played Mordheim, Epic; Armageddon, Warmaster, or Man O' War.
Another Epic fan here. My very first GW boxed game was Titan Legions back in 1995, and I think the only reason my group of friends didn't play it more often as teenagers was that parents would often buy us 28mm 40k stuff as presents. It would have been fantastic to have my current level of disposable income back then.
Despite being introduced with an early edition, I'm also convinced that the Epic Armageddon ruleset is the finest ruleset every made by GW. It's tight, well balanced and the games flow well. Not only that, but it's ten times better at representing the fluff that then current 'oversold' 40k meta. When my Tyranid armies can often be outnumbered by marines at 28mm scale, you know something has gone wrong.
Under E:A, each army reflects the fluff really well thanks to some incredibly simple special rules. Space Marines are always outnumbered, but strike fast and have a very elite 'feel'. IG are a lumbering behemoth, slow to react but hitting hard. Orks favour really getting stuck in, and can be tailored to reflect any of the main clans. Tyranids are finally the overwhelming force the background describes them as, with never-ending hordes being a viable way to play.
Epic also let you do all the cool stuff that was impractical at 28mm. Multiple titan duels, aircraft squadrons, long-range sieges. An earlier edition even had rules for infantry boarding actions on Titans and Gargants, potentially letting you sabotage them from inside.
It's nice to see 3rd-party producers starting to churn out 6mm products to keep things ticking over, if just a little. The first one to recreate modern style Nids in that scale will be getting so much of my money...
Specialist Games are only dead if you stop playing them. Sure, you can't buy direct from GW but buying games and models from GW -is not- nor ever has been a legal requirement to enjoyment (despite what GW mis-management would have you believe).
I recently got Advanced Heroquest and Blood Bowl 2nd edition on ebay and will be starting some campaigns with friends shortly.
So hunt these games down, pull them from your dusty attics and get playing.
Gorkamorka was the first step of our group into 40k. It was awesome.
Bloodbowl still is an incredibly exciting and fun game.
Never realy played Necromunda.
Epic and stuff always looked super amazing, but never really found the moneyz to play it... but there are so many great alternatives out there!
Flashman wrote: The thing with Epic is that the minis - particularly the small ones - were never that great, so while I enjoyed the game, I never really developed a strong attachment to it.
They could do great things nowadays with their digital plastic sculpting wotnots, especially if they increased the scale to a FoW type size.
I would play Flames of Warhammer so hard. I think it'd reach the comfortable middleground between the scale of Epic and the detail and character of regular 40k.
Flashman wrote: The thing with Epic is that the minis - particularly the small ones - were never that great, so while I enjoyed the game, I never really developed a strong attachment to it.
They could do great things nowadays with their digital plastic sculpting wotnots, especially if they increased the scale to a FoW type size.
I would play Flames of Warhammer so hard. I think it'd reach the comfortable middleground between the scale of Epic and the detail and character of regular 40k.
There are companies that produce alot of minis in 15mm that are rather close to 40k style
Proxie models makes not-imperial tanks, 15mm.uk and others make alot of infantry that are very similar to space marines, imperial guard and orks, Khurasan makes some great orks (mercs), Geiger'ish alens (tyranids anyone?) and vehicles, and there are others as well such as Rebel minis.
15mm in the 40k universe, using 40k, epic, or some other rulest is very doable. Additionally, in many cases new 15mm figs are cheaper than hunting down the used epic figs.
really a shame... GW could make a lot of money by supporting theplayers who want skirmish level 40k or fantasy themed universes...
necromunda could be changed into a low points 40k game with extra rules and campaing/experience progression for your small army/gang/rougetraders/ect
often the only thing keeping new players out is the sheer size/scop/cost associated with getting a full sized army.. heck I been painting 15+ years and it takes me a long time.
only having to buy 20 models or less would get far more people into the games, and they would naturally expand from there.
wouldnt need separate models, just throw up a rule book to buy and people will buy it...
as much as I love big games, I really wish smaller, more "hero hammer" type things were still around.
I have many many fond memories playing mordheim,
best one was me owning people time after time with my gane leader, he had two dueling pistols, and kep rolling +bs, got great skills, then two games in a row, lost both eyes!
oooo man, I had even sculpted on the eyepatch after the first one... then I was like... awww damn, old no eye's mcgee isnt going to be shooting so hot anymore.
To be fair, this is more akin to pulling the plug to the life-support machine. The games have been officially dead for some time. Seem out of place that GW offered the rules for free download (and that they were available at all) in the modern age of wringing the customer of every single $ they can? That's because apparently officially the SG would have gone years ago, but for JJ offering to help keep the games maintained and support them off his own back. To be honest I am amazed they survived on the site for so long, although their departure now is most certainly the end of an era.
Some of my best wargaming memories come from those games; from 20,000pt a side Epic games, featuring a dozen titans and entire tank and infantry companies destroying each in battles lasting 2 days, to Blood Bowl tournaments in GW, the store massed with cheering players, Mordheim and Necromunda campaigns lasting months - with little newsletters and campaign maps. They were truly great games, from a time when the term 'Games Workshop' was actually appropriate.
I was running a campaign while working in a GW many years ago. A multiple-player campaign, culminating in a 4 player match trying to destroy a 'beast from the swamp' (a scenario printed in White Dwarf). The game ended with a juve being devoured by the creature, even as one of the guys desperately managed to blast the creature into the 'pit' (the only way of killing it) and saving his comrade. Afterwards, one of the guys came up to me and said it was the most fun he had ever had with miniatures. And that was the thing about those games - they provided the perfect outlet for community, for player improvisation, creating a fun environment and most importantly allowing the players to run riot with their imagination.
But most importantly perhaps, they were accessible to everyone and a great gateway to wargaming. Remember one kid who used to come into the store occasionally, had a really poor background - came from a bad part of town and had very little money. But, he saved enough to get a gang (which were about £13 at the time IIRC), and I threw in a few bits from the bits box so he could do some conversions. Was great to see someone get some interest and enjoyment in that way - I knew a lot of the people he hung around with were a bad lot, and I honestly don't think it's too extreme to say he would have been out smashing in car windows if it hadn't been for the chance to get involved and given a direction for his energy. Instead, he got the chance to mix with kids and older guys who were more straight laced, and it gave him some interests and direction. I will stop now before it starts sounding a bit cheesy! But, I think it's important to realise that with the passing of cheap, affordable and easily obtainable games (within the GW store at least) there will be that many less people now exposed to the wonderful hobby that is wargaming.
But, I think ultimately those games are too good and still too popular amongst gaming aficionados to disappear. Their playing will continue I'm sure, and fortunately a lot of the guys who made those games have gone on to make other great games with other companies - Jake Thornton at Mantic, Andy Chambers with Dust, Alessio Cavatore with more games than you can mention, and of course Rick Priestly (although sure I have missed a few!)
easysauce wrote: necromunda could be changed into a low points 40k game with extra rules and campaing/experience progression for your small army/gang/rougetraders/ect
Well if Necromunda just became Skirmish 40K it wouldn't be Necromunda any more. That doesn't seem like a good idea.
easysauce wrote: necromunda could be changed into a low points 40k game with extra rules and campaing/experience progression for your small army/gang/rougetraders/ect
Well if Necromunda just became Skirmish 40K it wouldn't be Necromunda any more. That doesn't seem like a good idea.
In my heart Necromunda sums up the difference between the old GW and the new.
From when GW encouraged houserules, and even had small magazines dedicated to them.
GW puts a lot of spin on the 'narrative' experience - but Necromunda and Mordheim were all about the narrative.
When I was running Mordheim for a summer program one of the kids did a series of letters from one of the warriors in his warband to his mum - using the Mordheim campaign as fodder for his creative writing classwork.
That's narrative!
The Auld Grump, gods above and below... that was more than ten years ago, now....
I found all my old Fanatic issues whilst unpacking today. Made me realise how much I miss the GW setting, especially BFG. No other fleet game has had the same weight except the also mourned for Babylon 5.
I played a campaign game of necromunda back in the day, with my Van Saar Gang. Awesome fun, and really hit home about the state of the galaxy at large. But sadly, rules were very tedious at best, especially when you could essentially one-shot a gang, preparing and packing up could take longer than the gameplay.
Hell, I've now got a goliath, Orlock and Van Saar gang going and another friend wants to get in on a campaign.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well if Necromunda just became Skirmish 40K it wouldn't be Necromunda any more. That doesn't seem like a good idea.
Well, Necromunda of course started as 2nd edition.
I don't think it's an inherently bad idea. Set up a core of rules suitable for skirmish play, then bring out setting based expansions - a not entirely different concept to what FFG did with the 40kRPGs, all of them (loosely) based on the same underlying rules, but all set in different areas of the fluff.
I still play bloodbowl every week, I occaisionally engage in a game of Necromunda and I know 4-5 people that play that on a regular basis too still.
Its not dead, and I dont blame GW for getting rid of them either, thats what businesses do if something is not selling or worth the outlay in terms of cost and space taken up.
Sad though all the same.
Zond wrote: I found all my old Fanatic issues whilst unpacking today. Made me realise how much I miss the GW setting, especially BFG. No other fleet game has had the same weight except the also mourned for Babylon 5.
Have you had a look at Firestorm Armada 2? You can get a serious amount of ships on the field although you don't have the variation of ship armaments, you also don't have ALL the variation of ship armament.
MarcoSkoll wrote: Well, Necromunda of course started as 2nd edition.
2nd rules, sure, but I don't see what difference it makes. Necromunda is made not by the rules but by the background and the gangs. Simply swapping them for small-scale 40K armies would make the game not Necromunda.
I played Epic, Gorkamorka, and my favorite, Necromunda. I never got into Mordheim or BFG, but I wish I had.
I tried to get back into 40k via Kill Team a few months ago hoping it could work as an alternative to Necromunda, but I just couldn't stay excited about it. Necromunda was and is still the best game GW ever made, IMO. I got my gaming friends to give it another go a few years ago and we had a pretty good run, but interest died off eventually. I'd still like to start up a campaign again at some point.
I just hope that the Mordheim video game is both good and successful, so that we might get Necromunda game at some point. As far as existing GW games, I have little interest in where they are taking 40k. Bigger is not always better. That and the spirit of the games from the 90's is long dead, and that's what made them special IMO.
Ah well, things move on. Doesn't mean the games aren't still worth playing. I would encourage everyone to give Necromunda a try if you never have. It is a blast when played with a good group of friends.
I'll miss Mordheim, well I won't because I have the PDF stashed away, but you know what I mean!
On a recent thread in News and Rumors about the Mordheim video game, somebody was saying that Mordheim became muddled as it didn't have an errata/rules updates etc etc
Out of all the GW games I've played, I never had a problem with the Mordheim rules. Here's hoping the video game will capture some of the game's flavour.
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Flashman wrote: I have all the specialist games stuff downloaded onto a laptop.
For free.
Do you hear that GW? For free! Mmmwahahahaha!!!
Ahem. On topic - played Gorkamorka back in the day and still play Mordheim, mainly because the minis are so readily available via the Fantasy range.
Slightly OT, but I've noticed that warhammer visions is sleeveless these days. Given your penchant for magazine 'browsing,' that's more free stuff for you.
But, then again, visions is that bad, probably not worth the bother.
On a recent thread in News and Rumors about the Mordheim video game, somebody was saying that Mordheim became muddled as it didn't have an errata/rules updates etc etc
Out of all the GW games I've played, I never had a problem with the Mordheim rules. Here's hoping the video game will capture some of the game's flavour.
I know there are substantial community revisions for both Mordheim and Necromunda. There is Coreheim and Necromunda Community edition that can be found with a quick google search. I can't speak to the Coreheim rules, other than reading they are regarded as very good, but Necromunda CE is very good. It fixes a lot of the issues with gang balance and more importantly fixes the mess that was Necromunda: Underhive, which is so typo ridden and flat out missing rules descriptions referenced elsewhere in the book, that if you were unfamiliar with the original rules, you could argue makes aspects of the game unplayable due to lack of content.
That said, the original rules are good enough to stand on their own. The revisions done by the community are basically updates on things that didn't work as well as they could have. I don't know where the idea comes from that these rules are a mess, unless it is from those gamers who are always looking for ambiguity in the writing to exploit. Then again, we often went with "what makes sense" when we got in a rules question with Necro, but that's the advantage of playing with like minded friends. Perhaps if you were trying to play it somewhat competitively you could find more ways to break or exploit the rules. That is very much not the point of Necromunda though.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Necromunda is made not by the rules but by the background and the gangs. Simply swapping them for small-scale 40K armies would make the game not Necromunda.
Which more or less comes across to me as reading too literally and responding to "Hey, you could use the Necromunda rules for skirmish 40k" with "NO! NO YOU CAN'T! THAT'S AN AWFUL IDEA! BY DEFINITION, YOU CAN'T USE THE NECROMUNDA RULES FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PLAYING AS GANGS ON NECROMUNDA!". Probably using a frying pan to punctuate the sentence, but maybe I'm just violent.
The most sensible future for Necromunda probably would be as one of a possible range of settings for a general WH40K skirmish ruleset - you'd want to run any non-core game development pretty lean, so as to maximise the rate of return.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Necromunda is made not by the rules but by the background and the gangs. Simply swapping them for small-scale 40K armies would make the game not Necromunda.
Which more or less comes across to me as reading too literally and responding to "Hey, you could use the Necromunda rules for skirmish 40k" with "NO! NO YOU CAN'T! THAT'S AN AWFUL IDEA! BY DEFINITION, YOU CAN'T USE THE NECROMUNDA RULES FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PLAYING AS GANGS ON NECROMUNDA!". Probably using a frying pan to punctuate the sentence, but maybe I'm just violent.
The most sensible future for Necromunda probably would be as one of a possible range of settings for a general WH40K skirmish ruleset - you'd want to run any non-core game development pretty lean, so as to maximise the rate of return.
I think that you two are having separate arguments - that there is a failure to communicate rather than an actual disagreement.
What I think that you want is a general 'WH40K Skirmish' rule set, with modules that define that game as, say, Necromunda or Gorka Morka. With the possibility of further modules defining other settings.
What I think H.M.B.C. thinks you are saying is that you want full scale WH40K, but with rules for skirmishes - which really isn't the same thing. (Whether or not you like the rules post 3e... they really are not as flexible as the old, kludgier, but well loved 2nd ed rules sets.)
Me... I would not argue against Mad Max style vehicular madness on the Ash Wastes outside of the Spire, with or without Orks. (YakTribe has some expansions upon that theme. )
I never played any of these games, but I miss the Necromunda minis, and regret not getting into Mordheim when I had the chance.
GorkaMorka was great for the converting and scratch-building potential, as well.
TheAuldGrump wrote:I think that, as a whole, Blood Bowl has done the best, post-GW, of any of the Specialist games.
Lots of teams, lots of miniatures, 3rd party dice and even custom pitches.
I wish that I liked the game better
I'm getting through the better part of a season after a hiatus for a few years and I'm having trouble liking it again. Everything is so badly cobbled together and bolted on. It's starting to remind me of a bad late 80s RPG that people think is good because the happened to enjoy the GM who ran the game and falsely attribute it to the rules. I have three painted teams that mostly live in my display cabinet which I keep because I tell myself I'll play again because Bloodbowl is so awesome, but after taking a couple years off from it and returning to it, I can see I had a major case of rose tinted glasses. I think I'm just going to give my teams to a friend and call it quits as it might actually be a bad game. I just kept telling myself was good because of the half of the time I found the actual play tolerable, the people I was playing with were the real cause of the fun.
On a recent thread in News and Rumors about the Mordheim video game, somebody was saying that Mordheim became muddled as it didn't have an errata/rules updates etc etc
Out of all the GW games I've played, I never had a problem with the Mordheim rules. Here's hoping the video game will capture some of the game's flavour.
I know there are substantial community revisions for both Mordheim and Necromunda. There is Coreheim and Necromunda Community edition that can be found with a quick google search. I can't speak to the Coreheim rules, other than reading they are regarded as very good, but Necromunda CE is very good. It fixes a lot of the issues with gang balance and more importantly fixes the mess that was Necromunda: Underhive, which is so typo ridden and flat out missing rules descriptions referenced elsewhere in the book, that if you were unfamiliar with the original rules, you could argue makes aspects of the game unplayable due to lack of content.
That said, the original rules are good enough to stand on their own. The revisions done by the community are basically updates on things that didn't work as well as they could have. I don't know where the idea comes from that these rules are a mess, unless it is from those gamers who are always looking for ambiguity in the writing to exploit. Then again, we often went with "what makes sense" when we got in a rules question with Necro, but that's the advantage of playing with like minded friends. Perhaps if you were trying to play it somewhat competitively you could find more ways to break or exploit the rules. That is very much not the point of Necromunda though.
Thanks for that info about community revisions - I'll look into it.
On a separate note, does Dreadfleet count as a specialist game? It got a lot of stick on this site, but I enjoyed painting the ships and thought it was a half decent game.
The fact that I bought 10 boxes of Dreadfleet and doubled my money a few months later is entirely unrelated to my love of Dreadfleet
Still, does it qualify as a specialist game or does Man O' war get the accolade?
Zond wrote: I found all my old Fanatic issues whilst unpacking today. Made me realise how much I miss the GW setting, especially BFG. No other fleet game has had the same weight except the also mourned for Babylon 5.
Have you had a look at Firestorm Armada 2? You can get a serious amount of ships on the field although you don't have the variation of ship armaments, you also don't have ALL the variation of ship armament.
I have models for it. It lacks a fleshed out setting which I enjoy however. The manuals from Salute look fairly meaty however.
Now watch your mouth out and say ten Hail Kirby's as penance for even suggesting such a thing.
Never! Give me dreadfleet or give me death!
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Compel wrote: I started going to a new gaming club a few weeks ago and they actually seem to thoroughly enjoy Dreadfleet as a team game.
Not having played it, but seen multiple reviews... I was thoroughly confused, especially when they compared it to Battlefleet Gothic.
I think the Dreadfleet backlash was for a few reasons:
1) The price, which was a fair criticism, especially when people like me were sucking up multiple copies and doubling my profits a few months done the line. That was good business acumen!
2) The fact that people knew that it would be here today, gone tomorrow, so why should I invest money in a game that won't receive future support? Again, this is something I sympathise with, as after you've done the main campaign, there is nothing left, and no chance of any new ships/scenarios in the future.
3) It wasn't Battlefleet gothic. Out of all the criticisms, this was probably the most petty in my view, like blaming oranges for not being apples.
I think he was just comparing the rule mechanics/structure between Dreadfleet & BFG. That's a fair comparison to make, you quite often have a lot of cross-over between space/sea battle games in terms of how mechanics function.
I actually thought Dreadfleet was fun, in a 'play it a few times' kind of way. Way too random and nothing like enough depth (ho ho!) for it to be mentioned in the same breath as some of the 'Specialist' games, but it was an extremely rare foray by the modern-age, publically owned GW into a new game and as such I was glad that they tried such a thing. The feint echo of ages past and all that..
Sadly, it sounds like it didn't sell enough to make the venture likely to be repeated. So it's going to be 40k or the highway if you are a GW fan from here on in, especially if those rumours that WFB is going to be turned into a bastardised version of the same game turn out to be true.
It's a shame Dreadfleet didn't do great, because it was so refreshing that they produced something new which wasn't Space Marines. Sadly, one of the biggest criticisms the game faced was that "It's not Space Marines!"
It looked like well-produced game, and not even overly expensive when you consider the contents, however the visual aesthetic was just all over the place. All the ships were completely different visual style. This was a major bummer, since people who like naval games want to build FLEETS. Visual design just screamed "beer & pretzels & out of whack" which was a major turnoff for those who wanted a naval game, and it being a naval game was big turnoff for those who just wanted a beer & pretzels game.
On the whole, I miss the tone of the company more then any one rules set in particular. I miss the free wheeling, "Hey lets have some fun, this is how we can do it..." side play that the staffers from the WD, and company in house seemed to put off within the overall tone of the GW environment.
As they slowly crossed into mindless corporation drone status, we started loosing more and more of the guys that we evolved gaming with. I played a LOT of Necromunda, Gorkamorka, and Skirmish level 40K with some second edition use in there. I did not as much as I wanted to, play as much fantasy, based on the overall tone change from 3d edition to 4th, and I had a particularly favorable impression on the seasonal events, such as Lustria, Norsica, and the world wide campaigns systems. encouraged by the design team. We started slipping in our fun level partly because of the rules change from 2d to 3d edition, but on the whole, the books were written with a broad scope of open ended material that gives players plenty of opportunity to have fun and use their imagination, unlike today where everything is a compulsory this or standard issue that. The way in which fun was encouraged, and creative spins on the stuff that did not lock you down was probably the best thing that Specialist Games brought to the table, and one could easily push and want to push the material and use it in ways that were highly constructive, and downright fun.
Ork Bar brawl, Dark Eldar Pit fight, Lustria expansion, the Mordhiem added materials, the modeling corner, the HOW TO's that let you build stuff for use in the specialist games...., were but a few examples of how I remember how the Specialist games team pushed WD's envelope and made it a real fun magazine to read, and look forward to the added "Specialist games" material that came with it a real fun ride.
Try something like that now, and your more then likely going to get a C and D from G and W.
What happened to the rumoured inquisitor skirmish game? All fizzled to nothing, though fan made games exist. A shame because that really seemed to fire people's imaginations.
At salute I bought the Mordheim Possessed warband which I look forward to making up soon. My advice is to buy specialist games stuff when you see it, because it will get harder and harder to buy over time.
Howard A Treesong wrote: What happened to the rumoured inquisitor skirmish game? All fizzled to nothing, though fan made games exist. A shame because that really seemed to fire people's imaginations.
It was likely rumour people mistaking Inquisition Codex for a stand-alone game.
And yes, it's a shame since it's a kind of game GW would really need these days to freshen up their limited & increasingly stale selection. Well, they're likely done with LOTR license at this point, so lets hope it frees sculpting and design resources to other than more 40k.
Rumours like that are just wishlisting out of the context of GW's financial plateuing and retraction of sales.
GW has doubled down on their "main games" approach at every opportunity. They're simply not going to change their plan unless forced to. And when each financial report comes out where GW's revenue is flat and unit sales are down, big changes become more believable.
Surely, at some point, they must do something. And then when they do, we tend to think that catering to our specific preferences will be what happens.
When I really think about it, "Specialist Games" is really the problem and not a point of nostalgia. "Specialist Games" is a label that GW slapped on a bunch of games that they decided to give to a couple of staff and supply only minimal support and finances too. Not to say that some of the SG team didn't try hard to do well and get some new minis and material out, but from the moment that the label was applied it was a slow turning off of the tap for resources and support.
Nearly all the games that we refer to as "Specialist games" had their heyday and time of biggest success and support before they were sent to the SG room. Before SG, they were full members of the GW family of games with prominent space on store shelves, features in WD, and active support. After SG they were the stepchildren in the basement.
Put another way it's not Specialist Games that I miss. I miss the Games Workshop that used to support a wider range of games.
Eilif wrote: Put another way it's not Specialist Games that I miss. I miss the Games Workshop that used to support a wider range of games.
This.
Fanatic or Specialist Games was part of the process of shelving these games and doubling down on the "main games only" approach GW has been on for over a decade.
I did get my hands on a complete BFG start box last year. It eaven had extra ships added to the chaos fleet. I was in the mood to start an Mechanicus collection... but...
I'll just raise my glass in respect of theese great games. Me and my friends will still enyoy them.
I miss Gorkamorka the most, not really for the ruleset or anything, but for the glimpse into the lives of Orks.
I got started in this hobby with Necromunda and I'm very regretful that they killed it off. Then we got into Mordheim ("No way I'm painting up a fantasy army, but 12 guys...?"), and then into the hobby as a whole.
I've got Bommas over the Sulphur River, Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, and Dread Fleet. I regret not getting the ork ships for BFG, but I know no one who plays it at all.
Given the age of Kickstarters and the like, I don't see how GW can't make money on these. Put out something as an option, and if enough people commit to it, then print it! It seems like no risk! I also think that they are missing the opportunity to GET people into the hobby, and KEEP people in the hobby. Small scale games like Necromunda allow someone to 'try out' the game, without ever thinking about buying dozens, or hundreds of models. For the person who already has every model ever made for your army, Epic/BFG/etc. allows you to collect more of your favorite army.
With electronic editions and easy print-on-demand, I can't see why any of the books were ever pulled (don't get me started on Warhammer Historicals) and I don't see why they can't find a way to manage profitable limited production runs of models.
Eilif wrote: When I really think about it, "Specialist Games" is really the problem and not a point of nostalgia. "Specialist Games" is a label that GW slapped on a bunch of games that they decided to give to a couple of staff and supply only minimal support and finances too. Not to say that some of the SG team didn't try hard to do well and get some new minis and material out, but from the moment that the label was applied it was a slow turning off of the tap for resources and support.
Nearly all the games that we refer to as "Specialist games" had their heyday and time of biggest success and support before they were sent to the SG room. Before SG, they were full members of the GW family of games with prominent space on store shelves, features in WD, and active support. After SG they were the stepchildren in the basement.
Put another way it's not Specialist Games that I miss. I miss the Games Workshop that used to support a wider range of games.
Yeah. It was obvious that 'Specialist Games' were simply a wastebasket label for obsolete games. When were the last miniatures for them released anyway? Some new BFG ships came out in 2007 IIRC, and Aeronautica Imperialis was released that year. When did the last Blood Bowl minis come out?
As pointed out in ICv2 thread, it's the lack of diversification which is really hurting GW. LOTR license has become a proverbial millstone tied to GW's neck at this point. Well, maybe with Battle of Five Armies it'll pick up speed again...right??
Pacific wrote: I think he was just comparing the rule mechanics/structure between Dreadfleet & BFG. That's a fair comparison to make, you quite often have a lot of cross-over between space/sea battle games in terms of how mechanics function.
I actually thought Dreadfleet was fun, in a 'play it a few times' kind of way. Way too random and nothing like enough depth (ho ho!) for it to be mentioned in the same breath as some of the 'Specialist' games, but it was an extremely rare foray by the modern-age, publically owned GW into a new game and as such I was glad that they tried such a thing. The feint echo of ages past and all that..
Sadly, it sounds like it didn't sell enough to make the venture likely to be repeated. So it's going to be 40k or the highway if you are a GW fan from here on in, especially if those rumours that WFB is going to be turned into a bastardised version of the same game turn out to be true.
Good point. I honestly think that if the reception for Dreadfleet had been better, then maybe different games would have been a more regular feature. Space Hulk flew off the shelves, and GW probably thought they were on a roll. Dreadfleet's poor reception probably forced them to reel that thinking back in. But I did my bit to boost sales. I bought 10 boxes, god damn it! Well, that's what my heart says. Head says that dakka's negativity probably scared them off!
3) It wasn't Battlefleet gothic. Out of all the criticisms, this was probably the most petty in my view, like blaming oranges for not being apples.
I think the complaint was that it wasn't Man o' War.
I'm old enough to remember Man O' War, and it's probably heresy on this site to say this, but I didn't think it was up to much. Battlefleet, yeah, Man O'War, no.
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Backfire wrote: It's a shame Dreadfleet didn't do great, because it was so refreshing that they produced something new which wasn't Space Marines. Sadly, one of the biggest criticisms the game faced was that "It's not Space Marines!"
It looked like well-produced game, and not even overly expensive when you consider the contents, however the visual aesthetic was just all over the place. All the ships were completely different visual style. This was a major bummer, since people who like naval games want to build FLEETS. Visual design just screamed "beer & pretzels & out of whack" which was a major turnoff for those who wanted a naval game, and it being a naval game was big turnoff for those who just wanted a beer & pretzels game.
Good post. It was a joy to paint those ships. One of the few times that GW had the sense to provide a complete painting guide. Ok, you had to buy WD, but it did allow me to achieve a pretty good paint scheme that boosted my profits, so thank you GW
?????????????? Why is Specialist Games Dead ???????????????????
It's only dead when people stop playing them. This year at my Games Club We've started a Necromunda Campaign. We have 7 active Gangs with 3 more on the way. All the Terrain came from Spartan Games: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/572986.page Members have bought Gangs off Ebay, some have used other ranges like Infinity, someone else has done a Goliath Gang with Catachans. People are loving it. Necromunda was one of the better rulesets from GW.
We've even poached a member from a different Games Club due to the interest in Necromunda.
Battlefleet Gothic I admit, has been replaced with Firestorm Armada. Space Hulk is still played at our club. Epic was replaced with DZC. Point is, a Game is only dead when People stop playing it.
Zond wrote: I found all my old Fanatic issues whilst unpacking today. Made me realise how much I miss the GW setting, especially BFG. No other fleet game has had the same weight except the also mourned for Babylon 5.
I really liked Silent Death back in the day. It was sorta like Battletech in space, and we used it to work space battles in Star Wars with custom build ships, since all the RPGs had TERRIBLE rules for space (West End Games and d20 alike).
I really liked Silent Death back in the day. It was sorta like Battletech in space, and we used it to work space battles in Star Wars with custom build ships, since all the RPGs had TERRIBLE rules for space (West End Games and d20 alike).
Silent death is still being produced and slowly expanded.
http://store.metal-express.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2 Not being much of a spaceship gamer, I'm not sure how it compares to other rulesets (I've only played Full Thrust a few times) but for fans of SD, it is available and in PDF form too.
Have played Blood Bowl, Mordheim and Necromunda....can actually still get games of these without much trouble (easier than I can games of Warmachine).
Recently nabbed the Aeronautica Imperialis rulebooks and some models off Ebay, partially to help with a story I'm writing and also in hope of getting a handful of games in.
Epic was well Epic, but the writing was on the wall as soon as they figured they could get people to play it with full sized models. I remember years and years ago they did an epic exhibition with full size miniatures, every body thought it was cool, but it sent a shiver down my spine.....I see now that I was right.
Played Gorkamorka, BFG, Bloodbowl and Necromunda at various times. Always wanted to give Epic or Mordheim a try, but never really found the time or the group.
It's a shame there's not more creativity like this at GW these days. Glad I downloaded pretty much everything a while ago when rumours that the site might change started!
Andrew1975 wrote: Epic was well Epic, but the writing was on the wall as soon as they figured they could get people to play it with full sized models. I remember years and years ago they did an epic exhibition with full size miniatures, every body thought it was cool, but it sent a shiver down my spine.....I see now that I was right.
They couldn't even get that right. Either way it would be ridiculous, but if Apocalypse had been a modified version of Epic, it would have been a proper playable game rather than a rarely-played exercise in rulebook-selling.
I really liked Silent Death back in the day. It was sorta like Battletech in space, and we used it to work space battles in Star Wars with custom build ships, since all the RPGs had TERRIBLE rules for space (West End Games and d20 alike).
Silent death is still being produced and slowly expanded.
http://store.metal-express.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2 Not being much of a spaceship gamer, I'm not sure how it compares to other rulesets (I've only played Full Thrust a few times) but for fans of SD, it is available and in PDF form too.
Yeah, I have some of the rules in PDF already...but wasn't aware they were expanding on it. That's awesome.
I still have a few of the larger gunships that I planned to use as mission ships for BFG.
Can anyone find Jake Thornton's blogs on Dreadfleet? They are illuminating.
Backfire wrote: It's a shame Dreadfleet didn't do great, because it was so refreshing that they produced something new which wasn't Space Marines. Sadly, one of the biggest criticisms the game faced was that "It's not Space Marines!"
I disagree with that. Dreadfleet was lambasted because it was a product no one wanted and because it wasn't very good, no matter the quality of the miniatures within. Claiming that people didn't like it beacuse it "wasn't Space Marines" is about as truthful as saying that Space Hulk only did well because it was Space Marines. No, Space Hulk did well because it was a good game and had amazing production values. A good cloth ocean and some nice minis weren't enough for Dreadfleet because it wasn't good in the first place.
Kind of funny but all this reminiscing has got me thinking about Necromunda a lot again. Problem is I can't decide if I want to buy some kits and convert a new plastic gang, or not give GW my money because they stubbornly hold onto the notion that they can't make money off of smaller games and push hard on big armies only. I feel like buying those kits only reinforces their beliefs and there's plenty of other games that will offer alternatives.
I think I'd be all over Deadzone if the models weren't so awful and uninspired They should have just gone all out and made "not Necromunda" human gangs and called it a day.
Backfire wrote: It's a shame Dreadfleet didn't do great, because it was so refreshing that they produced something new which wasn't Space Marines. Sadly, one of the biggest criticisms the game faced was that "It's not Space Marines!"
I disagree with that. Dreadfleet was lambasted because it was a product no one wanted and because it wasn't very good, no matter the quality of the miniatures within. Claiming that people didn't like it beacuse it "wasn't Space Marines" is about as truthful as saying that Space Hulk only did well because it was Space Marines.
I actually remember when DF was released and there were plenty of people complaining how GW "wasted resources on a fantasy ship game when they could have released missing Space Wolves kits etc". You can look the thread up if you don't believe me. And those complaints were BEFORE anyone had the opportunity to play it.
So yes, my statement is quite correct. Of course it was not the only factor, as I explained in my post.
Dreadfleet didn't do so great because it was 1-shot game that would never be further expanded upon and because it wasn't very good on its own merits. Also it was overpriced. GW scouring the world to destroy all copies of it after several months certainly didn't help.
Why does Dreadfleet (or even the most recent Space Hulk) even come up in conversations regarding Specialist games? They weren't Specialist games. They were one-off limited edition games that were never intended to be further supported.
Specialist games were games that had previously acquired expansions, miniature lines, and support before being shunted to the side and grouped under the SG sub-brand.
The only thing SG and Ltd. Ed games had in common was GW's desire not to invest any more resources in them.
I think they get brought up for a few reasons. For one, the original Space Hulk sort of got bundled together with the other games at the time. Back then they weren't called Specialist Games, they were just games that GW made.
In recent times, they get brought up alongside Specialist Games because many people just assume any of GW's "other" games are Specialist Games. I think also, because some people think that is the only way we will ever see these games be brought back, is by a one-off, single box re-release. I think people would take that over nothing, but sadly I don't think that will ever happen.
I'm currently playing in a 20-player tabletop Blood Bowl league (on its 4th season), and play in BB tournaments every few months (have to skip plenty more). I can't speak for other Specialist Games, but BB is as strong as ever. GW dropping their support is strictly a positive development from my perspective.
While credit goes to GW for the initial ruleset, it's the BB community that have kept the game thriving. We have updated, well-balanced rules (more than any supported GW game can claim). Then there are a plethora of independent companies putting out a huge variety of models, pitches, tokens, and custom dice. All without GW's support, or in spite of GW's opposition.
My greatest fear as a Blood Bowl player was that GW would try to reinvigorate the IP with half-baked new rules, inadvertently break the game, and end up dividing the community. Or perhaps take further legal action against the companies responsible for sustaining the BB hobby for all these years (as they've already gone after NAF.) "Your search for: blood bowl did not match any products" is the best news I've seen on GW's website in a long time. I just hope they've given up for good.
My greatest fear as a Blood Bowl player was that GW would try to reinvigorate the IP with half-baked new rules, inadvertently break the game, and end up dividing the community. Or perhaps take further legal action against the companies responsible for sustaining the BB hobby for all these years (as they've already gone after NAF.) "Your search for: blood bowl did not match any products" is the best news I've seen on GW's website in a long time. I just hope they've given up for good.
That's how I felt when the re-released the Necromunda rulebook. It felt like they stripped all of the flavor and energy and character out of the original and it ended up dividing my gaming group where some wanted to use the free PDF and others wanted to stick with old original rules.
I just wish I could find people who still played the Specialist Games regularly around my area.
BFG - I know of 6-7 people with fleets, but most are mum on getting them dug out of their holes in the attic or closet to play.
Mordheim - We have gone back to it on a few occasions, but people hate certain lists so much that it falls apart quickly....or it starts with 'limited warbands allowed' and never really takes off.
Blood Bowl - Played heavily by a group that hasn't changed their player base in 7-9 years...they love their game and hate outsiders. At events, they are also annoying as hell to game around. Luckily, as I said, I have XBox 360's Bloodbowl.
Epic Armageddon - Great game, but I played a few people with my Eldar and suddenly they hated the game because of how 'Spirit Stones' worked. I couldn't find games anymore, and I sold my army.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well if Necromunda just became Skirmish 40K it wouldn't be Necromunda any more. That doesn't seem like a good idea.
Well, Necromunda of course started as 2nd edition.
I don't think it's an inherently bad idea. Set up a core of rules suitable for skirmish play, then bring out setting based expansions - a not entirely different concept to what FFG did with the 40kRPGs, all of them (loosely) based on the same underlying rules, but all set in different areas of the fluff.
I thought that was the idea when Gorkamorka used very similar rules, but added vehilces and Orks. I was hoping for more spin-offs like Eldar Exodite knight worlds, Inquisitor warbands in the cities, Space Marine Scout Training, Adeptus Mechanicus explorators exploring catacombs, Ship's Naval Crews in the bowels of the ship, etc.
Sure, the nature of the 
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Why is Specialist Games Dead 
