Thanks to you, our last two Kickstarters were an amazing success as we added to our Bones line of plastic fantasy figures. We want to bring this same success over to the CAV range of figures where their larger size will benefit even more from the cost savings associated with producing a figure in plastic. The CAV: SO Kickstarter is focusing on getting these larger models switched over faster as well as the introduction of several new figures for you to use.
Where is the Rule Book?
CAV: Strike Operations centers around an all-new edition of the game. During the Kickstarter we will provide everyone a link to download a free PDF copy of the base rules and see the changes we have made as part of the update. We will make an announcement when this download is available. We have already committed to producing this game without asking for your assistance and will be releasing a full-color, hard-back rule set for retail sale.
Where is the Rule Book?
CAV: Strike Operations centers around an all-new edition of the game. During the Kickstarter we will provide everyone a link to download a free PDF copy of the base rules and see the changes we have made as part of the update. We will make an announcement when this download is available. We have already committed to producing this game without asking for your assistance and will be releasing a full-color, hard-back rule set for retail sale. The free pdf rules are linked below
I was never a fan of the original metal CAV models as they screamed to me of entry level CAD design work without any flare or soul due to both the designs and the static poses but I'd be willing to at least take a peek and see if they've improved in the intervening decade.
Most CAV models will be in the 2"-2 1/2" size and are 10mm scale-wise. This size fits well with existing mech games and terrain lines.
The same plastic from Bones is being used to produce the CAV: SO minis but will be a light gray color rather than the traditional white. They will include a hex base that is black and a harder plastic.
Tannhauser42 wrote:I'm the opposite, I quite liked the original CAV metals, especially compared to some of the other mecha offerings from other companies.
I'll have to keep an eye or for this one, still have my Ritterlich (including 8 Jaguars) and Mitso-Ta forces.
I'm right there with you. I don't own any CAV's but I;ve always liked the designs. The sculptor John Bear Ross did most of them IIRC and I've tended to like his work wherever it appears.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Info fro the reaper forums
CAVBOSS
Most CAV models will be in the 2"-2 1/2" size and are 10mm scale-wise. This size fits well with existing mech games and terrain lines.
The same plastic from Bones is being used to produce the CAV: SO minis but will be a light gray color rather than the traditional white. They will include a hex base that is black and a harder plastic.
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CAV is tecnicallky 10mm, but alot of the small and medium sized designs will size up well against Battletech and other 6mm mecha. That's because in the CAV universe, CAVs aren't as tall as Battlemechs are in the Battletech universe. The largest CAV's though will dwarf the largest Battletech models
I really want some CAV Bones minis, but after the Bones 2 campaign, I might just wait for retail. Mantic is giving me all the crappy stretch goals I can handle at the moment.
CAV: SO doesn't change the composition that much from previous versions. Naming is a little different... Your overall force is called a Force Group which is made up of Squads (generally 4-6 models each).
As part of the KS an abridged copy of the rules will be available as a free download to let people see whats going on. We have already committed to printing a hard back, color copy of the rules that will be available by November. This book will not be part of the KS as we want to get that into peoples hands right away and don't want to be doing multiple shipments to the same people. More info to follow. SamuraiJack, on 05 Aug 2014 - 4:54 PM, said: Maybe they can rename one the Myrnnyx for Amalor
-- I am planning to do something for him. I was always a fan of his painted mechs and want to make sure we honor his memory in some way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: from the reaper forums
CAVBOSS
TaleSpinner, on 06 Aug 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:
@CAVBOSS: Will we have a force creator similar to what we had had with CAV 2 and do currently have through Reaper Game for Warlord (i.e., Army Creator). It really makes playing the game easier.
-- Yes. I currently have a programmer working on a program that will do just that. We have a working copy now and we are working through the bugs. I hope to make it available during the KS for people to download.
I'd agree, but I suspect they don't want backers to be involved in a year long (speculation but not an unreasobable guess) wait for the minis while the hardback is available to non KS backers
whatever people say they will get grumpy and upset about it as time ticks on
(and start demanding an early shipment of just the rulebook which either makes Reaper the bad guys for saying no, or means they've got split shipment hassle to take care of)
better to give the cut down pdf as soon as the KS ends (so people can decide whether they like they system), and let them buy the book on their own. It also helps build bridges with FLGS etc who can sell the books and will then have more incentive to stock the line after the KS as they will have some idea of how big a player base there may be
(personally I'd offer a full pdf as a paid add on too, but that might not fit with an FLGS strategy as described above)
I can see why they'd do it the way they are doing it. I prefer to own hardcopies of games I play regularly despite always bringing my android device(s) to the FLGS when I play. If anything, it tells me that they're thinking ahead of time about how not to potentially screw themselves over and then later screw backers. I wish other KS had done that (cough... Robotech... cough).
One other possibility is that they want to get the rulebook into FLGS's (assuming FLGS's are willing to take another chance on CAV) ahead of the release of the miniatures.
So far Reaper seems to be one of the companies where a Kickstarter has reulted in sustained sales of the product at the FLGS. I see bones at nearly all the FLGS"s around here. Maybe they're hoping for a similar reception for Bones CAV's.
Truthfully, how they're selling the rulebook is more a curiosity for me. There's only a slim chance that I'll be paying CAV:SO. It's far more likely that I'd be buying the CAVs to play alongside my armies of rebased Mechwarrior clix in games of Mech Attack and Alpha Strike.
Exactly as stated earlier. We already have all of our minis out in metal and people are ready to play now. We want the rulebook out there so people don't have to wait. Multiple shipments are a nightmare to deal with.
Greetings all! Glad to see everyone is as excited as I am to finally get this thing rolling! I've added a link to a downloadable 8.5 x 11 " poster for you to print out and post at your local game-store or convention to get the word out. Any help is much appreciated! Have a great weekend!
The original CAV game was a lot of fun but it seemed as if Reaper has never had a good grasp of how to support a set of game rules over time. They all just seem to die a quiet death.
As for casting the minis in the soft plastic... not a fan. I don't mind it for organic shapes but there's nothing like the crisp detail of metal or hard plastic for mechanical objects. I don't think that the bones material is going to do the designs justice.
Dullspork wrote: The original CAV game was a lot of fun but it seemed as if Reaper has never had a good grasp of how to support a set of game rules over time. They all just seem to die a quiet death.
As for casting the minis in the soft plastic... not a fan. I don't mind it for organic shapes but there's nothing like the crisp detail of metal or hard plastic for mechanical objects. I don't think that the bones material is going to do the designs justice.
Fair points. Reaper Games don't seem to get much press or stick around long, but the Warlord game seems to be doing well enough that it gets an expansion every couple years. Bones CAV's are more apealing to me, but I do wonder why they didn't go with a Warlord Kickstarter. The issue is that Reaper is really a miniaitures company, not a game company. Time will tell whether putting the rules in the hands of a separate/related entity (the talon games fellow) who seems to be really committed to them will have a different result, but it's possible.
As to the PVC mecha, there is reason to be skeptical, but they can look quite good if done correctly. Some of the Mechwarrior Dark Age minis were really nice figures (some weren't) and those were not even intended for a traditional wargaming audience.
I am ok with the soft plastics, mostly for the price. I have been collecting BattleTech minis for 3 decades and because of that have a huge collection from just about every Giant Mecha Game out there. But some of the new players have trouble getting enough together to play larger games. Bones makes that possible.
I will cringe at the thought of what Bones might do to some of the detail, but it's something better than CAV's that are 10-15 dollars apiece like they are now.
I am a big fan of pewter, and I will always prefer to work with it and ABS plastic as a painter, but the price is getting bad.
What's really too bad is that I really love the CAV game designs, but I really have to urge to have anything Bones. Everything just goes "bendy", and I still am wary about how paint sticks to them.
Dullspork wrote: The original CAV game was a lot of fun but it seemed as if Reaper has never had a good grasp of how to support a set of game rules over time. They all just seem to die a quiet death.
It's less of a problem with Reaper supporting a game, and more a problem of simply getting traction with the game. It was certainly much harder in the earlier days of Warlord and CAV when Games Workshop dominated the miniature gaming market, and when Privateer Press was only just starting. Now, though, with GW spiraling downwards, and numerous games picking up speed, Reaper may have a better chance of getting a foothold in the wargaming market,
People are aware that having Bones versions of these mechs doesn't erase the current metals from existence, right? Or that you can, right now, buy every single one of them without waiting for a kickstarter to start and fund and end and ship? If you like mechs in metals, or you don't like the Bones plastic, there's nothing keeping you from going that route and doing so right now, you could even play the current version of CAV until the new rules come out for free here. Personally, I can't WAIT for Bones plastic mechs.
The problem of Reaper supporting the game is a legit concern, however, since Reaper is a miniatures company, not a game company. I kinda wish they'd make a games division that was fully supported by the miniatures side of the company and properly marketed, Reaper's games always seem like such an afterthought for the company. It's strange, because Reaper is such a powerhouse in the market for miniatures they surely COULD be a good games company if they brought in some real games designers, but even with a few editions of Warlord and CAV out, they just don't really want to fully invest in making games. And clearly, Reaper's business model is vary successful, but I just wonder how much more they'd sell if they also had a game driving sales on top of all the RPGs and proxies they currently sell.
One other note for folks who just like Mech miniatures, regardless of the game, the "Robot Supply Depot" section of the Reaper online shop has all the CAV sculpts that were either retired from the game, rescupted or resized. There's a number of neat figs in there, some at a nice discount from comparable sculpts in the current CAV lineup.
One nice thing about Reaper is that except for licensed miniatures where they no longer have the rights, nearly EVERY Reaper miniature ever produced is still available. Even if it is not in the current catalog.
NOTE: International backers will be paying actual shipping as in Bones II, the calculator for this is not yet up and working but i'll add it to the op when it is
Never had a Reaper bones white model before, other than something large. How hard is it to straighten curved items? I figure the usual hot water mix, bend back into place? They picked a horrible picture for their Wight model since the weapons looked bent.
Dark Severance wrote: Never had a Reaper bones white model before, other than something large. How hard is it to straighten curved items? I figure the usual hot water mix, bend back into place? They picked a horrible picture for their Wight model since the weapons looked bent.
If it's something reletivly solid hot water works ok
for some stuff (eg swords on human sized figures) nothing really helps
My personal opinion is it's a decent material for large stuff (like this will be),
but only really good for rank and file stuff for human sized minis (personally I'd get a metal version of my RPG character)
when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)
when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)
Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.
when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)
Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.
I have had that issue too.
I have just been brushing on my primers.
I have also had luck with 50/50 water and white glue as a sealant.
I'm in at the $1 level for now to get updates and such. I still have all my old metal CAV models, so I don't really need more at this point, but I'll see what they come out with.
...due to the speed of updates, I don't know if they were expecting that to happen with big stompy robots.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark Severance wrote: Never had a Reaper bones white model before, other than something large. How hard is it to straighten curved items? I figure the usual hot water mix, bend back into place? They picked a horrible picture for their Wight model since the weapons looked bent.
Hot water works well enough (really hot, and long enough to heat the whole part - common mistake is to just dip it in and take it out...but plastic is slow to heat up, and you need to relax the whole part to avoid it bouncing back to bent). For these though...I would probably use hot wire. A bit of steel wire, heated and inserted into the barrel of the weapon creates something that will keep it straight.
Picking one that has a bit of a bend though sets expectations. Bones will bend. When the Chinese factory packages up a few thousand of them and crams them into boxes for shipping to the US, everything gets bent. A lot will pop back into place, but a bit will still be bent when you get your package. It isn't hard to fix at all - but if people are expecting perfectly straight parts - this helps them to see what the final product will actually look like.
Meh. Is Reaper some sort of pariah in the gaming industry that it can't ask an EU company to handle EU distribution, or do they just not care? Well, as in Bones II, I'm not going to subsidize US shipping.
Mattlov wrote: I'll be getting in on this quite soon. I want to see a stretch goal or two first.
You can still jump in now while there are still some early bird pledges left, and then cancel later if you don't like the stretch goals.
I don't see this one being as successful as the other Bones kickstarters, due to the more limited appeal of CAV, so i don't expect to see gobs of stretch goals.
when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)
Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.
It does not seem to be a problem with all sprays; some work fine,
some work fine for most people (but cause problems for others.... my guess this is people really spaying a lot of paint or spraying somewhere the propellant can't escape)
some seem to give you sticky models however they are used
so my general advise (to cover those with no experience with bones or even mini painting) is probably avoid spray primers just to make sure the problem doesn't happen (there was at least one sad report of somebody who'd sprayed a significant portion of his BONES I pledge at the same time and pretty much looked lost the lot.. I never found out if he'd managed to work out a fix)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's a faction list CAVBoss posted in the KS comments
when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)
Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.
It does not seem to be a problem with all sprays; some work fine,
some work fine for most people (but cause problems for others.... my guess this is people really spaying a lot of paint or spraying somewhere the propellant can't escape)
some seem to give you sticky models however they are used
so my general advise (to cover those with no experience with bones or even mini painting) is probably avoid spray primers just to make sure the problem doesn't happen (there was at least one sad report of somebody who'd sprayed a significant portion of his BONES I pledge at the same time and pretty much looked lost the lot.. I never found out if he'd managed to work out a fix)
Mostly it seems (though I could be wrong and there could be exceptions) that the sprays that work are acrylic sprays like Army painter, and most of the one's that don't are oil based sprays with fairly harsh solvents in them. Those harsh solvents are what make them stick so well to polystyrene models, but some of them seem to interact with the PVC of the bones figures and leave them a bit sticky.
I just slap gesso on my bones figures and haven't had any problems.
wana10 wrote: Only matters when it happens to me? How upset were you during bones 1 when the US was subsidizing most of the shipping for foreign backers?
I was pretty upset with Reaper taking so long to ship that USPS doubled their prices in the meantime, yeah. The original charge was perfectly realistic. But I'd have paid extra if they had asked, unforeseen circumstances and all that. But instead, this apparently gives them carte blanche to screw over non-US backers forever as some sort of ridiculous revenge?
The reaper free shipping to the USA isn't really a new thing or a way of dissing Europe. They've had free shipping for orders over $35 to the USA for a long time now.
lord_blackfang wrote: Meh. Is Reaper some sort of pariah in the gaming industry that it can't ask an EU company to handle EU distribution, or do they just not care? Well, as in Bones II, I'm not going to subsidize US shipping.
Reaper says its orders are so complex, that it costs them as much to ship from their warehouse as it would with a EU distributor. Wouldn't be surprised, though, if they're not doing that because that's not how they do everyday business.
And no point spending more effort on customers who cost more. Take a look at the Bones II vs. Bones I funding and number of customers to see the impact of "actual shipping costs": Less than a 10% decrease in money, for slightly over 10% decrease in backers. That's a good tradeoff -- fewer backers means less overhead. If these backers were mostly international, that's even less work and therefore costs for Reaper.
Still, it *would* be good to see more countries running KS for miniatures and other projects in their own countries. Metal and resin miniatures, and Hirst Arts terrain certainly can be made locally. If there are gamers all over the globe, surely there can be sculptors and miniature makers? Not that I've been following non-plastic miniature campaigns, but RAFM is the on miniatures company using KS and not in the UK or US.
What else... Reaper started off in manufacturing, not miniatures gaming. In fact, their first business was making those bowling trophies and other awards, as well as historical model airplanes, then Magic the Gathering counters.
Finally, if you look at most miniature game KS, guess what the backers want: miniatures. In other words, it's the tangible man-dollies the backers will pay for (although this could be a self-whatever prophecy, as Dungeon Saga's SG's were often game content related, not mini's), not the intangible work of rules writing and playtesting. Many companies give away the rules free to sell miniatures. Well, if you're already selling miniatures, why make rules? Reaper's origins as an RPG miniatures company meant that others wrote the RPG rules indirectly for Reaper.
Now, is this a wise decision? I can't find Mantic Games vs. Reaper's annual revenue, but I'm guessing Mantic's selling more stuff than Reaper, and doing a better job than any company in filling GW's missing product lines (eg. Dungeon Saga for Warhammer Quest, DeadZone for Necromunda, Mantic's Kings of War skirmish game for Mordheim, etc.). Reaper's Bones line is something of co-evolution, perhaps becoming direct competition. Mantic can certainly create more Dungeon Saga miniatures that are suitable for RPGs.
More importantly... HALF OFF PAINTS Any idea if Rach Red is different from Blood Red?
This is still an extremely niche hobby, and while it's true that local markets can be served by local companies, it's definitely not always the most efficient way to go about things.
1) Games systems (like CAV) need a certain level of playerbase to have a sustained lifespan - you might have produced the finest Chilean Sci-Fi skirmish game the world has ever seen, but it won't be widely played unless it is internationally available.
2) At the end of the day, models need to get manufactured, and economies of scale come into effect. If you're hand-casting resin monsters for £100, that can be done as a cottage industry. If you're mass-manufacturing plastics for cheap/large scale wargames, you have to be a moderately sized company, or have a lot of cash to hand.
Reaper is one of a very few companies to offer what they do through Kickstarter - a ton of plastic models for a reasonable price. You can't make the choice to support a local industry instead, because there is nothing comparable on the market.
The "controversy" is the fact that a company the size and age of Reaper has no interest in proper international distribution - they don't want to spread their brand or develop new markets. Which is fine, it's just that it differs from the standard Kickstarter approach that people are calibrated for, and people feel aggravated that they either have to miss out on a mega deal, or pay nearly twice what the US backers do because Reaper doesn't have any kind of system in place.
Borrowed from the Reaper forums a shot of some metal CAV figures (the Bones ones should be pretty much the same size) alongside some 15mm Ground Zero Games minis
ced1106 wrote: And no point spending more effort on customers who cost more. Take a look at the Bones II vs. Bones I funding and number of customers to see the impact of "actual shipping costs": Less than a 10% decrease in money, for slightly over 10% decrease in backers. That's a good tradeoff -- fewer backers means less overhead. If these backers were mostly international, that's even less work and therefore costs for Reaper.
That's fine, it's capitalism at work and their prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to vote with my wallet. As we say in Slovenia, "Clear bills make for good friendships."
Interesting, I'll keep an eye on this. Not sure what I'd do with 2 inch robots though. Was the original game fun? How many dudes did you need on a side?
ced1106 wrote: And no point spending more effort on customers who cost more. Take a look at the Bones II vs. Bones I funding and number of customers to see the impact of "actual shipping costs": Less than a 10% decrease in money, for slightly over 10% decrease in backers. That's a good tradeoff -- fewer backers means less overhead. If these backers were mostly international, that's even less work and therefore costs for Reaper.
That's fine, it's capitalism at work and tier prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to vote with my wallet. As we say in Slovenia, "Clear bills make for good friendships."
Yeah I get the feeling that Reaper has no great interest of the wide world, if they are only intrested in their country fine let them I'll just ignore them as they ignore ROW....
The one currently waiting to be unlocked is the ability to buy some paints that already exist?
Plus most of the stretch goals are basically "you can buy X mini".
Reaper's past kickstarters kind of got their huge success based on just how good of a deal it was, nobody was really too excited about the quality of the minis.
It's obviously doing alright, but it's going to be a surprisingly low funded kickstarter IMO. Seems to be a pretty low priority for Reaper and most gamers see pretty apathetic.
3 of the paints are existing colours, 3 are new (whether you actually want them is up to you)
and 5 out of the 6 visible stretch goals added a free mini as well as the option to buy another type
so it's not a bad deal as the CAVs are a fair bit larger than the 'human' sized stuff that made up the majority of the previous Bones freebies
although you're right it's not the 'deal' of Bones I, Mech games are much more niche than generic fantasy (etc) so it was never going to be as popular.
Its also in partnership with Talon Games which may mean rather than having the who weight of Reaper behind it, it may only have an amount equivalent to Talon's stake (if you see what I mean) which could mean less scope for freebies
I think they really need to get the rules up asap, which is something I know they are working on, but as someone who would be new to the game I have no idea what factions there are (if any?), how many mechs I need, what size table it plays on, terrain density, win conditions and scenarios, etc.
Basically there's not much incentive yet beyond new shiny syndrome.
Yeah, this KS is pretty much completely underwhelming even for people like me that love the CAV mechs and the bones. 4 each of mechs that were done and being shown off 6 months ago? Without rules to go with them that is very odd to me as a jumping off point for the KS, especially as the stretch goals are for only a single mech. It's hard to know if having 4 of those mechs is something you'd actually want to play the game with or not.
I was really looking forward to this KS, I thought they'd be making a lot more of the mechs in Bones, or making them a bit faster. As it is there's a lot of my favorite ones that aren't on the map and won't be for a LONG time at the current rate, if at all and having a paint-only buy-in-only stretch as the 73K goal isn't helping. Who knows if we'll see any vehicles or infantry at all.
I understand it's a limited, niche market, but the design of the KS seems to be limiting it even more than it should
I mean, it's honest - they're being quite upfront about: we have this many models already made in this quantity, we have a certain number in the entire line, and with every step in funding we can make 2 more available.
But nothing is remotely exciting about how things are presented - no real backer engagement, no background to dig into, no mega savings on big bundles.
I actually think that the early bird shipping is a mistake, because it creates a massive gap between people receiving product in a couple of months vs. nearly a year's time. Funding slowed massively once all of those slots were filled.
I really don't mind the models themselves though - although there's a massive disparity in quality with some of them, and I think that they picked some of the most boring options for the core set.
Things may well improve when the Reaper folk who know how to work KS get back from the various conventions they are at
they have been at PAX and are now at something else (salt lake city?)
certainly it's why there haven't been graphics in most of the updates as the folk putting them up are trying to figure out how to do things as they go along
(Possibly not the best time to launch the KS, but with 2 companies involved there may not have been a choice even if things were running a bit behind)
I jumped in on an EB slot just because there were a couple left at the time. Not finding anything particularly thrilling about this so far and waiting for them to put up the rules before deciding whether to stay in or not.
For a company that has run two extremely successful KS's, this one seems pretty disjointed and has the feel of a first time KS.
I know Reaper had shot it down in their forums before the campaign started, but I would have loved to have seen some sort of starter set filled with models, rules, some scenery, and whatever tokens are necessary to play the game with.
Looking at this as a game (rather than just a minis campaign), it's a bit of a tough pill to swallow at the moment. Like others have said, I have no clue what I would want or need to play the game with, other than just following the rule of cool.
At the very least I'm sure I'll pick up a few models at retail.
I'm tottering also, I asked some quesitons about which mechs are big enough to really compare well with the Mechwarrior mechs I now use and I'm not sure whether to stay with my early bird, Drop the Early Bird and just buy a couple of mechs at the slightly-lower-than-retail price, or Drop out all together and just pick up a couple when they appear at my FLGS.
precinctomega wrote: If you like the models but are wondering about the rules, why not get the models and play a generic mech-combat game?
R.
[Who has definitely not written a generic mech-combat game that certainly isn't available from his website in the signature link...]
Definitely!
It's not like Reaper games have ever been that popular at most FLGS's anyway, so you're not going to have a ready made group to play with. If you don't like the rules use something else.
If you buy into this KS my recommendation would be to do so for the minis primarily. There are quite a number of good mech games out there from fast playing streamlined sets like the one in the link above, all the way through to super crunchy games like battletec. BT has always encouraged alternate models, officially has no WYSIWYG policy and includes an incredibly detailed vehicle design rules. Ironically, I don't like the game, but it's out there and it has alot of fans.
Here are the rules and stats for playing CAV. There may be some changes in the new book they're putting out but I doubt it will change that much. Haven't played CAV myself but Warlord, Reaper's fantasy skirmish game, runs on a variant of the same system and is a lot of fun.
wana10 wrote: Here are the rules and stats for playing CAV. There may be some changes in the new book they're putting out but I doubt it will change that much. Haven't played CAV myself but Warlord, Reaper's fantasy skirmish game, runs on a variant of the same system and is a lot of fun.
That's CAV2 and actually there will be ALOT of changes. There will reportedly still be a damage chart similar to CAV2, but according to most of what I've read they've completely reworked the game and it will be even further from the "RAGE" system as used in Warlord. They've also changed many of the mech affiliations, and much of the fluff. I had the Alpha Rules for CAV:SO a while back when they were released a year or so ago, but I can't find them now. They're probably floating around the interwebs somewherere if anyone cares to hunt them down.
All that to say that you can get a bit of a vague idea of what CAV SO might be like from CAV2, but your probably best googling what the playtesters have said about the system instead.
I would back to get some robots, but I'm not sure what I'd really do with them. I can barely find a game of 40k or even MtG within an hours drive let alone something so much more obscure as a mech combat game. At the cheap bonesium price I could see buying some robots to use their arms... probably at least one dude in there that's equipped suitably to pillage arms for a rifleman dreadnought, but other than that...
New pics posted at reaper forums. Close-ups and measurements of the first 8 designs. So now it's easy to see if and how they will mesh with your favorite mech models.
I think the pics show that Bones isn't perfect for this, but there's nothing wrong with these models that's going to be noticeable after my paint job. I do think though that folks with very high painting standards will find that these might not be quite good enough for them.
Big Update Today! 2nd and 3rd wave of Early Bird Specials announced and a video FAQ
First, we’re pleased to announce the addition of two more Early Bird Waves. The first one for 250 slots will go up today at 4pm CST and the next wave of 250 will go up next Friday the 12th at 4pm CST.
So you’re asking, “If you had 1000 early bird sets why didn’t you put them up at the time of the launch?” We did our very first Early Bird Special during our last KS and learned a lot about the entire concept. The biggest lesson learned was that a lot of people get upset when they rush in after hearing about the KS only to find they missed out. Our solution is to spread out the early bird specials a bit. Also, in case you’re wondering, there will be no more Early Bird Specials after these are gone!
There is no change in these new Early Bird Specials from the first one. They’re in white plastic and will ship as soon as we receive the data from KS and you’ve filled out your pledge manager.
Second is our video FAQ~ We’re getting a lot of questions and often it’s the same question over and over. To this end we are creating a video. Have a question? Send it to CAVKS@ReaperMini.com. We’ll gather and collate all inquiries and post answers during the video.
We’re feverishly working on posting the full rules, a game play video and always a surprise or two. Tell your friends that might be sitting on the fence about the upcoming Early Bird Special, and get those questions rolling in!
At various times I have used CAV miniatures for larger 6mm and smaller 1/72 manned robots (depending on the cockpit design). With some modifications - they also work well as 28mm and larger unmanned drones/robots (ED-309 type stuff)
New mech. 2 Added to the core pledge as freebies. Also the Voodoo (freebie) and Vanquisher (paid) added.
I think my only issue is that I gave the $1, but unlike most other Kickstarters I have seen I am not eligible for the Add-Ons. Or at least I have not found a way to do it.
I've noticed others do not make concessions for the 1 dollar add-ons only crew. Some projects likely do not lend themselves to giving away little bits and pieces, it increases the difficulty with fulfillment by more than a little I would imagine. Sometimes they add it later on if it's requested enough. It gets them more money, but more headache.
I may also go the route of picking some up later on for guard-bots. I certainly don't need the main pledge's 30something worth with no options of which I get though.
Anpu42 wrote: I think my only issue is that I gave the $1, but unlike most other Kickstarters I have seen I am not eligible for the Add-Ons. Or at least I have not found a way to do it.
The level says
Pledge $1 or more Rookie Level – THANK YOU! This reward level will allow you to report for duty and begin your basic pilot training. It’s perfect if you just want to pick the options you want and not receive the Core Force Set
so you can get add ons
just increase the cash amount of your pledge buy the appropriate amount eg $5 (for a total of $6) if you want to add a Thunderbird Mech then go through the amazon payments bit again
you don't choose the add ons yet, there will be a pledge manager after the KS is over to do so
(if you want to add on some mechs that are part of the core set prices to allow you to do this are apparently going to be posted later on)
I'm also rather underwhelmed by this one... I agree that a nice starter set would have been a great way to get into this game, rather than the DIY, buy what you want, scheme they're currently using. Not super user-friendly to a newbie like me.
I love the idea of the RAGE system with the damage tracking (looks like MechWarrior done right), but I've also not yet found an opponent...!
Right now I'm also in for $1 and hoping we get some vehicles. The two at the end of the stretch goals look nifty to me, but will we even get there? The gaps between goals are quite big!
I'm glad they opened up the core set models as add ons. It really makes going in with friends on a single pledge to save shipping better. I'm planning on getting some Imperators for 15mm power suits.
As for finding opponents, the key is to run things on a project basis like hosting a board game night. I've never had any problem getting games in when I provide both sides, the terrain and host a dinner party around it. I've even had people start collecting the same miniatures as me after trying it out. I know it's a more social approach, but it's totally the way to go if you're interested in a game that is not widely played.
I will hold off on this until I see a rule set. As a long time BT player, it's hard to want to invest the time into another sci-fi like this without seeing how the rules are.
I do really like the look of the emperor though. That is a good looking model.
They are coming up on the tanks and other vehicles now. I think those will be fairly well received once they do unlock.
I know for me at least, while a lot of the mechs looked cool (some looked rather goofy to my eye though...) their vehicles were quite good.
Bit more difficult to shoe horn into 15mm sci-fi - but may prove attractive enough for people to look seriously at 10mm or use them as upsized versions for 6mm.
Pretty much only the Imperator looks 15mm powersuit/cyborg friendly so far. The large canopy being on top of the torso rather than sticking out front makes it look like there's room in there for a 15mm person. When you look at other ones with the same size canopy situated on the front, it looks far less plausible.
I have the Dingo tank in metal. I'm definitely going to fill out a platoon of them assuming that gets unlocked.
I actually used 1/72 model aircraft (helicopters and fighters...) to figure out which ones would work in that scale.
Ones like the Kahn, Assassin and Dictator are actually just a little smaller than the cockpit portion of things like Cobra or Apache gunships...so for me, they worked fine even to that point. Others were either too narrow or too squat to work for a 1/72 scale figure.
If you are using 1/100 scale vehicles (as many do) for 15mm - you might be surprised at how many of them would be sized about right. They might not look like they could hold a 15mm figure...but that is a different issue.
Also, remember that 15mm metal figures are almost always quite heroic in proportions. Simply to make the figure sturdy they end up quite chunky. A non-heroic 15mm figure in a flight suit would be dramatically slimmer than most folks' 15mm troop miniatures.
Sean_OBrien wrote:If you are using 1/100 scale vehicles (as many do) for 15mm - you might be surprised at how many of them would be sized about right. They might not look like they could hold a 15mm figure...but that is a different issue.
I think I might be being too picky.
Eilif wrote:Also, remember that 15mm metal figures are almost always quite heroic in proportions. Simply to make the figure sturdy they end up quite chunky. A non-heroic 15mm figure in a flight suit would be dramatically slimmer than most folks' 15mm troop miniatures.
Most of my 15mm sci-fi comes from Khurasan and a bit from Rebel and they might be a bit bigger than GZG. I'll have to pull them out and put them by my metal CAV stuff and take a closer look
Here's a pic of Some CAV's next to 15mm GZG troops. Not my pics
I think I may have just gotten prejudiced by using my CAV stuff with Battletech and thinking they're appropriate for that scale.
I'm loving the amount of non-mechs they're making.
CAV's were designed (I have this from the sculptor John Bear Ross) at 1/160, which is the same as Mechwarrior. Oddly, Reaper now says that this version of CAV is officially 1/180 and 10mm ( ??) despite using many of the original sculpts with no modifications, though a few are reportedly being resized.
The issue in comparing them is that Battlemechs are just larger than CAV's in general. This evening I took the measurements of some of my mechwarrior clix minis (10mm minis)and the larger CAV's scaled up as light or small medium mechs,with the smallest being smaller than most any Mechwarrior minis. The small and medium sized cavs scale up better with 1/300 scale Battletech miniatures.
All this to say, that many (perhaps most) CAV's could be used with Battletech.
Has anyone played the game and did they like the original rules?
Are there any other stand alone rulesets for robot games that would work if these don't turn out well?
I have the CAV 1 rules and sourcebooks and it looks cool, but I've not played them. They're still avaiable from Troll and Toad for about $8 each. The CAV 2 rules are still for download somewhere on the Reaper website. CAV:SO rules should be out to backers soon.
As for other games, Mine will probably get used along side my rebased mechwarrior minis in games of Mech Attack ( http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=3148&products_id=79303 ) It's a great game with alot of battletech'ish elements in a much more streamlined and fast playing package. Works best with about 5-10 units per side. For Larger battles, we use Battletech's "Alpha Strike" rules for larger fast playing games on 3d terrain. Also the club sometimes uses the free ruleset Panzer 8 ( http://panzer8.weebly.com ) for large combined arms games which is a ridiculously streamlined 2 page ruleset for large scale battles with small scale minis.
There will be an Osprey Wargames title called Horizon Wars some time in the future as well. I've heard only good things about Mech Attack, but haven't played it yet.
My go to mech rules are either Battletech/Alpha Strike when I'm specifically meeting up with local BT people and Mekton Zeta when I'm hosting a game.
Mekton was a mecha RPG with a very expansive mech design system published in the 80s through the mid 90s. It's still available in PDF form and used print copies abound. If you just make the RPG stuff fade into the background and concentrate on mech combat, it makes a great miniature wargaming.
There's probably another 20-100 cheap and free mech games you could get your hands on, but people tend to recommend their favorites
CAV's were designed (I have this from the sculptor John Bear Ross) at 1/160, which is the same as Mechwarrior. Oddly, Reaper now says that this version of CAV is officially 1/180 and 10mm ( ??) despite using many of the original sculpts with no modifications, though a few are reportedly being resized.
One of the benefits of things like CAV...there isn't anything to scale them against to see how accurately scaled they are.
Like I said though - to check to see if it is compatible with other miniatures, I will normally look at things like the cockpits, doors and other parts which do have a real world analog. A lot of these sorts of miniatures (not just Reaper's CAV figures) are flexible enough that you can use them in a pretty broad range of scales.
The regular vehicles of course start to get a bit more specific (but even there - many could pass for vehicles in the 1/240 - 1/100 range) and then of course the infantry figures (not sure if they will look at making those in Bones...small figures are still pretty economical in metal) are around 10mm to the tops of their heads (which I would guess is where they came up with the 1/180 from...).
Part of that just goes to interpretation of the design. Something like an aircraft style cockpit in 1/180 scale might be comparable to an A-6 Intruder, with side by side seating. For 1/100 scale, that same vehicle now becomes a single pilot or tandem seating arrangement with the gunner behind the pilot (depending on flavor of the game system). In 1/300 scale - that is now a spacious cockpit like you might find on a B-36 with a pilot, co-pilot, communications and weapons officer sitting around playing cards.
Definitely looking at the Simba to either be a mobile weapons platform or some sort of Mule type robot for larger scales too. It is a big one (about 2 inches tall) and I have one in metal that I liked, but at $25 a pop...they were not something that I was willing to pick up a half dozen or so to chop up and make drones out of. Once it is out in Bones though - I will probably be buying them in 12 packs so that I can bundle them into my sci-fi/ultra-modern armies...even if for no other reason than they look cool.
That Simba is brilliant for any scale. I'm also starting to think about buying some like the raptor and the reaper to use as gun ships...once I remove their legs.
The main pledge has far too many duds for my taste, but if the retail price is similar to the KS price I'll be a huge supporter of the CAV line when it comes out.
Stuff like the gun from the Wardens should work quite well as heavy weapons for large scale infantry. Some of the missile pods for use as "cyclone style" mini missiles on power armor. Big guns from the Emperor as smaller vehicle mounted weapons for some high tech sentinel type walkers. The weapons from the Reaper keep telling me they are jet packs...
Sean_OBrien wrote: [
One of the benefits of things like CAV...there isn't anything to scale them against to see how accurately scaled they are.
The regular vehicles of course start to get a bit more specific (but even there - many could pass for vehicles in the 1/240 - 1/100 range) and then of course the infantry figures (not sure if they will look at making those in Bones...small figures are still pretty economical in metal) are around 10mm to the tops of their heads (which I would guess is where they came up with the 1/180 from...).
The minis are definitely flexible. Most of the mechs are as usable in 6mm (1/300 or 1/285 depending on company) as they are in 10mm (1/160). Many could also serve in 15mm (1/100), though some off the smallest would be unmanned (see the earlier post with 15mm GZG minis).
I would caution about the vehicles though as the range you're suggesting may be a bit too optimistic. The'yre good in 10mm, and in 6mm, though a bit large. Going to 15mm is going to be something of a stretch for all but the biggest vehicles. They just aren't quite that big. It's the same with the Mechwarrior clix 10mm stuff. All but the biggest vehicles (1/100) look pretty small next to 15mm figs. Luckily there's many other fine makers of appropriately sized 15mm vehicles.
So with $123K hit, we now see that the core set vehicles will also be purchasable as add ons. I'm definitely going in on this with a gaming buddy now that I can just get some plastic vehicles for a couple dollars a piece.
The $181K stretch goal is more of the same. Mech + 2 x vehicle added to core pledge, another mech and 2 x vehicle for add on.
Eilif wrote: I would caution about the vehicles though as the range you're suggesting may be a bit too optimistic. The'yre good in 10mm, and in 6mm, though a bit large. Going to 15mm is going to be something of a stretch for all but the biggest vehicles. They just aren't quite that big. It's the same with the Mechwarrior clix 10mm stuff. All but the biggest vehicles (1/100) look pretty small next to 15mm figs. Luckily there's many other fine makers of appropriately sized 15mm vehicles.
I would agree in large part - but again, it all depends on how you are using them.
I made a couple of single person walking tank things out of Recluses for 1/48 scale (scales out to almost be the size of a VW Bug - heavily modified cockpit area). The Hedgehog is a pretty good matchup for real world transport helicopters like the Blackhawk. The Hedge Hog is right at 3" long while the body of a Blackhawk is 30 feet or so at 1/100 scale, it actually ends up matching up fairly close. The doors are not too far off from the size of the black hawk doors either at that size.
Tanks...sure, there you will run into issues faster.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brasidas wrote: Rules pdf and a quick demo video are up for viewing in the latest update (#15).
Eilif wrote: I would caution about the vehicles though as the range you're suggesting may be a bit too optimistic. The'yre good in 10mm, and in 6mm, though a bit large. Going to 15mm is going to be something of a stretch for all but the biggest vehicles. They just aren't quite that big. It's the same with the Mechwarrior clix 10mm stuff. All but the biggest vehicles (1/100) look pretty small next to 15mm figs. Luckily there's many other fine makers of appropriately sized 15mm vehicles.
I would agree in large part - but again, it all depends on how you are using them.
I made a couple of single person walking tank things out of Recluses for 1/48 scale (scales out to almost be the size of a VW Bug - heavily modified cockpit area). The Hedgehog is a pretty good matchup for real world transport helicopters like the Blackhawk. The Hedge Hog is right at 3" long while the body of a Blackhawk is 30 feet or so at 1/100 scale, it actually ends up matching up fairly close. The doors are not too far off from the size of the black hawk doors either at that size.
Tanks...sure, there you will run into issues faster.
By "Vehicles" I was referring to ground vehicles. I could be wrong, but I really don't think they're going to work for manned vehicles in 10mm.
As for CAV's The largest of the range could probably be a manned vehicle, but otherwise, CAV's in 15mm are going to be mostly autonomous combat units. Which is actually a pretty cool use for them. Tomorrow's war and (IIRC) Gruntz both make use of such units. The issue is mostly cockpit sizes. You run into a similar thing with Mechwarrior clix figures which tend to be bigger than CAV's but even then, it's really only the largest that have big enough cockpits or large enough torso's to conceivably hold a 15mm person along with engine, etc.
I was expecting something far more simple for the quick start. The rules are definitely more of a full version draft.
They use a scatter method I've been using in my 28mm skirmish for quite some time. d10 gives both the distance and points the direction because of the shape of the die.
I think this thing is going to finish nicely in the high 200s and give a good selection of mechs and vehicles for the game. Hopefully some infantry get done along the way. And maybe a smaller flying craft. If I got to choose though, it would be a true scale Czar:
I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.
What would it take to get you excited?
Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.
Eilif wrote: Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.
So next stretch goal since we are at the 49 unit mark, next one puts it at 52.
Eilif wrote: Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.
So next stretch goal since we are at the 49 unit mark, next one puts it at 52.
Probably...
The thing is that my 10mm armies are made mostly of mechwarrior clix, mostly bought in lots and rebased. I'm used to paying a buck or less (sometimes much less) per unit on average. I realize that these are new models, multipart, and probably better in quality, but in the back of my mind, that's the computation that's going on. It's a matter of "are these a good enough deal to drop $100 bucks on when I could probably use the $ elsewhere and i've already a complete army and another army's worth of 10mm sci-fi units that need to be painted.
Not a situation that everyone's going to necessarily relate to, but that's how I'm approaching this KS. If we get 75 units in the core set by the time this thing wraps up, It'll probably be a no-brainer to stay in. However, less than that and I'll strongly consider dropping out. I can always buy them piecemeal from my FLGS and then I can be absolutely sure they are the ones I want and at a size and quantity that will meet what I need to best complement the units I already have.
I'm in the same boat as Eilif on this one. The rules do look neat, but I have boxes of MechWarrior figures that are already painted and ready to blow stuff up. I don't have too many dupes of figures, so if CAV armies tend to have multiples of vehicles and mechs, I may need to restock some of my MechWarrior units (if I can - specific figures aren't that easy to find any more!), but I don't really see myself going too big in on this one. Just picking up some vehicles here and there.
In the end, I decided not to go in with a friend on this one. I recently adopted a policy of not getting stuff for a scale/period/topic until everything I have for it is painted and I still have 10+ mechs, 20 or so vehicles and a ton of infantry for 6mm sci-fi to paint. I know CAV is ostensibly 10mm, but I'd be using it for BT with the rest of my 6mm stuff, so it counts I also have some 15mm sci-fi to paint and my other possible usage of some of the miniatures was to use as 15mm power armour or robots.
I have a couple local stores that deal directly with Reaper as a supplier and I like the idea of being able to tell potential new Alpha Strike/BT players to just grab/order in 4 or 5 CAV mechs they think are cool and we'll figure out stats for them. I'm also planning on getting some vehicles once they are available and I'm caught up on my BT painting, so I am glad this KS is funded and the product line is being developed for retail again.
Well, they're still at least net positive for today.
I'm not particularly intrigued by any of the mech designs as I wasn't a fan of the aesthetic 15 years ago and still am not today with these seemingly largely unchanged models. Are any of them new for those more familiar with them? Some of the conventional vehicle designs though do look nice and/or unique.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.
Somewhat related, Miniature Market's Daily Deal today is the BattleTech RPG: 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set, for $30. Free shipping at $100 of stuff: http://www.miniaturemarket.com/cat3500b.html
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.
What would it take to get you excited?
Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.
For me it's not even really a value for money thing... I already feel like I'm getting a decent enough deal. It has more to do with the fact that I've always been interested in giving CAV a try, I have a few of their old metal models somewhere. I just don't feel engaged with this kickstarter, I don't feel involved and I don't feel that Reaper is really trying with this one.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.
What would it take to get you excited?
Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.
For me it's not even really a value for money thing... I already feel like I'm getting a decent enough deal. It has more to do with the fact that I've always been interested in giving CAV a try, I have a few of their old metal models somewhere. I just don't feel engaged with this kickstarter, I don't feel involved and I don't feel that Reaper is really trying with this one.
That makes sense. I dropped out last night. I looked at my $, projects on my desk, KS I'm already in for (Salvage Crew) and all the stuff I've already got waiting for paint and decided that it is a great deal, but not the right time for me. I'm sure I'll pick up a some units at the FGS I visit every couple months, but I'm not going to drop 100 right now unless it goes absolutely bonkers in the last 5 days, and it just doesn't seem to be heading that way right now.
That said, I'm glad the KS has done well. I hope they have built up enough production and interest to be a viable game post the KS because I think that even though Bones is not equivalent to Metal, having an affordable "plastic" 10mm mech/vehicle line is a great addition to the miniature gaming market.
They are a gateway drug for the hard stuff like resin and metal. Cheap enough to get kids hooked, but not quite the good stuff...so they want to move up to real miniatures eventually.
errr...
Also, added a pair of Silverbacks to the core pledge as a bonus at $150K
frozenwastes wrote: The new ones are the CGI ones. So far: Imperator, Kraken, Reaper, Raijin
I'll have to take a look at those then and see if they have the same stiff design motif that I was never a fan of. Thanks for the clarification!
My friend has the same issue, but he's planning on cutting tons of these apart and making his own poses and designs. I think there's a lot of potential there. I'll probably lend my conversion and scratchbuilding skills and help him rebuild some, but I'm not going to do my own batch. He's really excited about the creative project he has in front of him, I keep thinking I shouldn't buy miniatures just to fix them.
9 Hours left.
I'd say about 50/50 they make it to the 181k mark which would end the KS at 57 units for $100. Not a bad price or a bad Kicktraq numbers, it probably wasn't the runaway success that Reaper hoped for.
Still, I'm glad to see that the KS had a good enough showing that I'll be able to pick up some new 10mm sci-fi vehicles at my local FLGS next year.
...and they've added every single revealed stretch goal into the core now. So the core is now 60 models, and all add-ons displayed so far are available.
Remember if you got an early bird level you'll need to lock in your choices by some point in November (Reaper will update with the final date) or you will miss the early shipping window
they will not be doing any 'piecemeal' shipments after the main EB wave goes out so you'd end up waiting for the normal shipping time
i was very tempted to get into this kickstarter but ultimately passed.
The biggest Issue I had was the way the kick starter was organized..Tho this approach worked for the generic fantasy models for Bones I felt the mix and match,little bit of everything in the core pledge was too diluted.
For a kickstarter focusing around a game system I really wanted each faction to have its own section I could add to my plege and to be able to see a brief write up of each factions doctrine and history and then be able to select 2 factions for the pledge.
I'm fine for the advance units being paid addons but If I'm looking to start out as a small 2 player game..why do i need models from every faction?
then there ended up being no infantry units ..I'm assuming we'd have seen them if the kickstarter went higher?.
its to bad..it seemed like a missed opportunity
even if they had changed it so every unit had a point value and the core set allowed you to select the faction units you wanted it would have had a stronger appeal.
ah well maybe next time
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I suspect at what, 6mm, infantry were never realistically going to be made in Bones as the shrinkage factor would just mess them up too badly
Edit: although I guess the metal ones could have been an option
CAV, is 10mm, but I do agree that bones is not a great material for replicating detail at that size, though it may be better than nothing.. Look at mechwarrior infantry (also 10mm) to see what infantry at that scale would look like in bones/PVC. It's useable, but not as nice as other competing company's miniatures. Still, they should make infantry in bones anyway just to get some affordable infantry out there.
I don't understand Reaper's ridiculous prices for CAV infantry. They're infantry is only smidge less than a dollar each! Even Heavy Gear, which is usually the most expensive option is almost half that at less than $20 for 40 figs. At this point I'd just tell someone to go out and buy some used Mechwarrior infantry. At troll and toad there are dozens of infantry units (2-5 minis per unit) that are only $0.35 each! That's 7-17 cents each instead of 50 cents to a buck each!
http://www.trollandtoad.com/products/search.php?search_words=mechwarrior+infantry&search_category=&search_order=relevance_desc&in_stock=yes
The Bones prices seem to creep higher every time I blink. Soon they will obliterate their biggest advantage: being cheap enough to justify buying Bones minis at all.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The Bones prices seem to creep higher every time I blink. Soon they will obliterate their biggest advantage: being cheap enough to justify buying Bones minis at all.
human and dwarf size figures have gone up by 50% or more since before KS1. Bigger-sized monsters seem to be going up based on KS2. What is acceptable in a $2 mini is a little more troubling in a very similar $3.29 mini.
That is a jump. That's still in "impulse" buy range for grabbing one at the FLGS . However If I'm considering a project, that would make me give even more weight to bargain metal lines like EM4 and ERM who'se figures are as cheap or less.
Still, how wide ranging is it? I just checked the NOVA troopers and they're only about $2.50 each.
Any idea if Rach Red is different from Blood Red?
I also have some 15mm sci-fi to paint and my other possible usage of some of the miniatures was to use as 15mm power armour or robots.
