Ok so it's a rant. I got a Kairos and a Lord of Change for my 30th along with some other daemonic bitz and bobs. I've reached the conclusion that these will be the last finecast items I get. Lots of reasons, small but enough to put me off in future.

The Texture of the resin, i just hate it. far prefer working with MPP now.
The Flash is just IN-SANE. Trying to figure out what bits to cut and what bits to leave for danger of destroying a delicate part of the model is like Sophie's Choice! The same can be said of what parts to fill once he is assembled. Joins are fine, but for example where the feathered head connects, rather than risk losing detail I've just left it as is.
Nearly 90% of the small nubbiny bits (like on his loincloth) are gone. The same can be said for his talon-tips, on his hands, feet and wings.

I'll probably hit the same brick walls on the LOC, time will tell, for the moment Kairos is mostly done. Pics to follow.

The problem is that I opened these two in the shop, the casting for 90% of it is fine, it's not miscast, there's no warped parts, the wings are practically flawless and the same can be said for the rest of it its just the above bits which you can't really see until you actively start painting are just....woeful.

I'll be getting a bloodthirster and KOS from ultraforge and a skulltaker and Karanak from avatars of war. I'm just glad I decided to get the chaos war hounds instead of flesh hounds now.

You should be able to exchange or call gw customer service and ask them what they can do. Their customer service is about the only good thing left about gw... They will probably offer to send out new ones to you.

I found this image that seems appropriate here

The last failcast thing I bought had bubbles on the dude's face and hat. I took photos of it and emailed GW, they just sent me a new one. That also had bubbles. I just ended up fixing them both so now I have 2.

It sucks, but unfortunately that's the way it is now.

"The way it is now" is that I haven't bought one single thing in Finecast and I never will. If I need something that's 'only available in Finecast' I convert... from other company's product if necessary.

And the only one it's "unfortunate" for is GW for continuing to produce Finecast.

I feel like I am the only one who has four or five finecast models and none of them have had any issues

 Vulcan wrote:
"The way it is now" is that I haven't bought one single thing in Finecast and I never will. If I need something that's 'only available in Finecast' I convert... from other company's product if necessary.

And the only one it's "unfortunate" for is GW for continuing to produce Finecast.

That's sometimes an option, but majority of the time converting from plastic troops doesn't look nearly as good unless you are willing to put lots of effort in to it (far more than just fixing a finecast model), using a model from a different manufacturer again depends on the army you collect and if you are trying to maintain an aesthetic. I haven't bought many finecast models, the ones I have bought are mostly models where there was either not much option or the finecast models looked so much better than the competitors or anything I could convert myself that I just went with them.

I miss metal models. They were annoying at times, but they gave you a range that can't be easily achieved in plastics without all the problems of resin and especially finecast.

Getting a new one from customer support isn't really an option because it's anything that's a rounded small part of the model is like it's burst. the same with the talons. they're all completely blunted like a bubble has escaped through it. it's something I've never once seen in plastic.

At least I'll be going down the route of gettin counts as for a thirster and kos.

 Vulcan wrote:
"The way it is now" is that I haven't bought one single thing in Finecast and I never will. If I need something that's 'only available in Finecast' I convert... from other company's product if necessary.

And the only one it's "unfortunate" for is GW for continuing to produce Finecast.

Very much this. I do not enjoy working with nor gaming with anything in that material.

 Shenloanne wrote:
Getting a new one from customer support isn't really an option because it's anything that's a rounded small part of the model is like it's burst. the same with the talons. they're all completely blunted like a bubble has escaped through it. it's something I've never once seen in plastic.

At least I'll be going down the route of gettin counts as for a thirster and kos.

I'm not sure why what you describe would preclude you getting a new one from customer support?

 SilverMK2 wrote:
You should be able to exchange or call gw customer service and ask them what they can do. Their customer service is about the only good thing left about gw... They will probably offer to send out new ones to you.

Too bad the replacement(s) will probably be just as bad as the original. Though at least maybe if you get enough replacements you can ebay them and recover the money you wasted on attempting to buy a finecast model.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Shenloanne wrote:
Getting a new one from customer support isn't really an option because it's anything that's a rounded small part of the model is like it's burst. the same with the talons. they're all completely blunted like a bubble has escaped through it. it's something I've never once seen in plastic.

At least I'll be going down the route of gettin counts as for a thirster and kos.

I'm not sure why what you describe would preclude you getting a new one from customer support?

Agreed. I'm no GW fan, but it's widely agreed that customer service for broken and incomplete models is one of the things that GW consistently does very well.

Why wouldn't you at least try to get them to send you a new one? Most every story I've heard, GW hasn't even required folks to mail in the flawed example.

My biggest issue with it aside from air bubbles and warped parts is just how cheap the fething resin feels. Seriously, just call FW and have them send intern number 587 to show you how to cast resin models or the other two options: go all plastic or bring back pewter.

Totally agree. Finecrap is horrid. best way to deal with it is not at all. My personal favorite Lord of Change alternative model is the Vrock from ultraforge. It is a bit expensive (and a bit large) but it is so worth it.

I've only bought three Finecast models. One was an Ork Warboss with an Attack Squig, another was Pedro Kantor and my most recent one the XV8 Commander for the Tau. That thing is a real pain. The flash on these models, I'm fairly sure there's a bit that is supposed to be on that Ork's gun that I cut off, I'm not sure if that little bit on the chest of the commander ought to be there. So many questions and then you start painting. Jesus they're a pain. Oh, and the super glue I use, since the nearest FLGS is in Shang Hai (2000 miles away), I've had to settle with some crap local stuff. Amount of time it takes to dry on a mini: half an hour, amount of time it takes to dry on fingers: five seconds.

I've never seen a Finecast model that didn't have apparent defects in box. I stopped looking soon after the launch and decided never to buy any. If enough people took the same approach, there wouldn't be any Finecast any more.

Funnily enough, the Finecast name has been quietly dumped because of the bloody awful reputation it has acquired.

I only bought finecast models I intended to chop up for parts.

At least I did until I got fed up with replacements that still had defects.

For me, it's not the defects (as I can play tag with GW customer support until I get something usable), it's the fscking flash. It's *EVERYWHERE*. I got the Thousand Sons Finecast conversion kit and other than a bent sword hilt, that's what I had to deal with.

Of course, I can't find a photo of the models with all the glorious flashing intact on that kit. -.-;

GW really should provide photos of what they consider the "average" look for the fresh-out-of-box finecast parts. Then people would at least know what they're getting into!

Ive got arjac rockfist in finecast which is my only decent one if anyone has seen the sw fenrisian cyber wolf they will know that theres only 1 point of contact to the base which is a leg thats about 1.5mm thick and because of the weight of the wolve it just bends mine has now snapped without it ever being out of the house im just pleased they made the new logan grimar proper plastic

maybe im just lucky but i've ordered 40+ finecast over the last 10 years adn I've never gotten a really bad one, the wrost i've gotten was a bubble on the underside of a skinks foot

My biggest issue with finecast is that it's both fragile AND expensive. I'm so worried about damaging a $20-$30 28mm model during prep that a lot of the fun is taken out of the process.

Finecast has been great for when i want to convert. trying to cut the frills off my witch hunter from fantasy to 40k would of been AWFUL if it was metal.

But as a thing in it self its awful.

They shoved a huge gate on the side of my Telion and i had no idea how deep to gouge it out.

so now i have to figure out how to convert him.

(will probably become some sort of acolyte or something)

I totally agree, Desubot. If I just want something to paint for fun, rather than kitbash, Finecast is way more trouble than it's worth. Frankly, if gw had $15 metal miniatures, they would easily get another $300+ a month from me easily, as this is what I spend on non-gw white metal miniatures on average. I buy lots of gw plastics, but very few finecast.

With how good their plastic kits are, one has to wonder how much longer finecast will survive.

Yep. Just opened up Typhus and while not terrible, cleaning up all the moulding bits is a pain! Luckily, he's supposed to be Nurgly, so I can make it work, but its frustrating as hell when I get older stuff off ebay thats beautiful.

Ive had plenty of finecast and had both ends of the scale.

My LOC really does not compare to my other metal one or metal fateweaver.

Any model that has thin base connections really does not stand a change.
My mangler squigs have collapsed, swooping hawks fallen off of bases due to being connected to their bases by toes!

GW really didnt think it through.

Its a very weak material with no strength what so ever, so it needs support.
My mangler squigs now have steel rods going through their legs and body and to the base, just so it can stand up without bending and falling over.


I have also noticed that warpage isnt fixable like on FW resins.
You can warm and re-set finecast, but over the course of a month or 2 it sets back to how it was.

FW resin stays as it is set.


Flash is not all that bad, unless its on ribbed or detailed sections, then its a pain.

My main issues are:

1: Air bubbles - I have possible 1 or 2 models that do not have them.

2: Mould alignment - i have had quite a few that the halves dont even line up on.

3: Fuzzy sections - usually faces or other detailed areas tend to just end up as a fuzzy mess.

4: Poor resin - I have had a few models now that are like rubber.
The resin has not set and i cannot make it set, so im guessing a poor mix of resin?



Thats about it from me really.
Stick with big chunky models and they are amazing.
As soon as fine detail is involved your screwed really.

 Anfauglir wrote:
With how good their plastic kits are, one has to wonder how much longer finecast will survive.

Indeed. However, I can't see myself paying $20+ for a single plastic 28mm. Frankly, I find it pretty tough buying boxes that are over $10 / 28mm plastic model. Likewise, I just couldn't bring myself to buy Logan Grimnar for $70, even though I thought the craftsmanship on the plastic was exceptional.

Had he been white metal, I wouldn't have blinked at $100. I know that doesn't even really make sense, since plastic is often much easier to work with, but psychologically, I just value plastic less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jackal wrote:
Ive had plenty of finecast and had both ends of the scale.

My LOC really does not compare to my other metal one or metal fateweaver.

Any model that has thin base connections really does not stand a change.

This! And, I'm perpetually afraid that if I knock over a resin model, I'll break something.

 Jackal wrote:


2: Mould alignment - i have had quite a few that the halves dont even line up on.

4: Poor resin - I have had a few models now that are like rubber.
The resin has not set and i cannot make it set, so im guessing a poor mix of resin?

Mold 2 is a major issue for me with some GW models. Usually it's fixable, but it requires so much remediation that my head hurts.

The resin for Finecast is different from FW resin -- I read a theory somewhere that on reason was to make the dust (from filing, for instance) non-toxic. I find Finecast pretty easy to get flash and mold lines off of; on the other hand, I'm paranoid about messing up the miniature. I think my blood pressure actually goes way up when I'm prepping expensive resin models, lol.

I've had a couple issues...And gotten them promptly replaced for non-issue models. That's off a good 20 or so models. Overall quality is perfectly fine. Ranting is great, but it's just that, ranting.

 Orsai wrote:
Oh, and the super glue I use, since the nearest FLGS is in Shang Hai (2000 miles away), I've had to settle with some crap local stuff. Amount of time it takes to dry on a mini: half an hour, amount of time it takes to dry on fingers: five seconds.

That sounds like typical superglue behaviour when the part you are trying to join has gaps. Also I've never bought superglue from an FLGS, I have no idea what it's like in Thailand, but I've always bought superglue from hardware stores and supermarkets, my preferred brand is Loctite with the long neck applicator.

Superglue starts curing at the surfaces it is applied on and then slowly cures in areas that aren't in contact with a surface. So if there's no gaps, it cures almost instantly, the larger the gaps the slower it cures. So since there's very space between your finger and the model when you're holding it, your fingers get stuck to the model very quickly. If there's large gaps between the parts you are trying to join, your fingers will get stuck to the model long before the model itself gets joined.

The solution is to improve the quality of the join, not only does superglue take longer to cure when there's a gap, in general it doesn't work great as a gap filler so you should try and minimise the gap. If you can't avoid a gap or can't be bothered trying to smooth the part, a tried and tested way to solve the problem is to mix a small ball of greenstuff (make it pretty small, it only needs to be big enough to fill the small gaps between the parts), apply the superglue to one side of the join, put down the ball of greenstuff, apply a bit of superglue to the ball of greenstuff (try not to have heaps of superglue, just enough to coat it all, I often find myself removing the excess with a tissue). Then press the parts together, squishing the greenstuff (which fills all the gaps while the superglue holds the joint together and dries well because there's no more gaps!).

I'm quite lazy, so I actually do this for a lot of my joins, rather than smoothing out all the joins on a model I just have some greenstuff on my work desk and quickly mix some up when I see I'm joining something that has gaps.

Talys wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:
With how good their plastic kits are, one has to wonder how much longer finecast will survive.

Indeed. However, I can't see myself paying $20+ for a single plastic 28mm. Frankly, I find it pretty tough buying boxes that are over $10 / 28mm plastic model. Likewise, I just couldn't bring myself to buy Logan Grimnar for $70, even though I thought the craftsmanship on the plastic was exceptional.

Had he been white metal, I wouldn't have blinked at $100. I know that doesn't even really make sense, since plastic is often much easier to work with, but psychologically, I just value plastic less.

GW is betting that alot of folks will though. That's why there are so many all plastic characters coming out. Many of them (or units similar to them) were formerly in finecast and/or metal, and quite a few of which are now 20+ bucks. It does look like GW is phasing out resin the same way they phased out metal. I'll bet in 5-10 years everything will be plastic.

As for the felt value of metal, I'm right there with you, though I think there are some good points of metal besides it's totemic value and heft.
-It is actually worth more as a substance.
-It is the most reliably strippable material, so you're not risking breakage or loss of value if you mess up a model.
-Because of the above, it tends to have a much better resale value.

Converting is easier with plastic, but with a razor saw, motor tool and a set of files, converting metal is not really that difficult.

I think the worst I had was my Castellan Crowe. No bubbles, just looked like he had been half melted. Everything was was sagging and deformed.

I just started painting a finecast techmarine.
I hate it. I so fething hate it.
It's not the flash that's basically impossible to remove/see until you put different paints on it.
It's quite well cast I'd say, no bubbles,no major deformities and the like...
It's the rough finish the entire finecast minature has. Bobs, crevices, folds... It's driving me MAD! Feels like there is no clean surface on the damn entire thing. Just about everything feels somewhat unclean, dirty and... not polished.

This, paired with the insane level of detail and sometimes impossible to reach places make wanna SMASH. I'm convinced there is a special place in hell where you paint Techmarines for all eternity.

Talys wrote:
The resin for Finecast is different from FW resin -- I read a theory somewhere that on reason was to make the dust (from filing, for instance) non-toxic.

This is not true. FW resin (and any other resin) is non-toxic. The components that go into making resin are bad, but the final result is safe. The issue with resin dust is that ANY fine dust is bad for your lungs. This includes wood dust, plastic dust, etc. It's not a big issue if you're just dealing with small amounts from the occasional model, but you should wear a dust mask if you deal with fine dust frequently or for long periods of time.

The real reason for using finecast instead of real resin is almost certainly cost. Finecast is probably cheaper than real resin, and the 12 year olds begging their parents for space marines don't care about a few bubbles on a model that will be badly assembled and never painted. The extra profit margin on milking that cash cow was supposed to be enough to offset the lost sales and constant replacement kits from the minority who do care about the quality of their models.

 troa wrote:
I've had a couple issues...And gotten them promptly replaced for non-issue models. That's off a good 20 or so models. Overall quality is perfectly fine. Ranting is great, but it's just that, ranting.

Hey, I'm glad you've had good experiences, but that doesn't invalidate the experiences of others and the frustrations those have engendered. It also would seem, from the anecdotal evidence that piles up on these threads, that you're in the minority, so go buy a lottery ticket or something because you're clearly very lucky.

I daresay our 'ranting' (way to be dismissive with your phrasing, by the way) is a communal way of reconciling poor finecast experiences with the time and money they demanded, re-assuring each other that it's not just us getting the gakky end of the stick and reinforcing the will not to engage with this sub-standard material in the future.

 Thairne wrote:
I just started painting a finecast techmarine.
I hate it. I so fething hate it.
It's not the flash that's basically impossible to remove/see until you put different paints on it.
It's quite well cast I'd say, no bubbles,no major deformities and the like...
It's the rough finish the entire finecast minature has. Bobs, crevices, folds... It's driving me MAD! Feels like there is no clean surface on the damn entire thing. Just about everything feels somewhat unclean, dirty and... not polished.

This, paired with the insane level of detail and sometimes impossible to reach places make wanna SMASH. I'm convinced there is a special place in hell where you paint Techmarines for all eternity.

THIS. This is one of the reasons that I dislike the material. Having finished my LOC I've noticed that nearly every single aspect of the hemming on his sleeves is distorted. And there's like as not no way I will have this fixed if I go through 100 of the sucker.

I hate resin in general. FW resin is better... but not that much better. I've gotten so many bad and flawed models from FW. I'll take plastic or even metal over resin any day of the week.

 Eilif wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Shenloanne wrote:
Getting a new one from customer support isn't really an option because it's anything that's a rounded small part of the model is like it's burst. the same with the talons. they're all completely blunted like a bubble has escaped through it. it's something I've never once seen in plastic.

At least I'll be going down the route of gettin counts as for a thirster and kos.

I'm not sure why what you describe would preclude you getting a new one from customer support?

Agreed. I'm no GW fan, but it's widely agreed that customer service for broken and incomplete models is one of the things that GW consistently does very well.

Why wouldn't you at least try to get them to send you a new one? Most every story I've heard, GW hasn't even required folks to mail in the flawed example.

The issue is that I would have to go through them ad nauseum in order to get one that is perfect. Kairos for example is 9 or ten parts. I wager that I'd need 10 of him just to get the parts that make him up to be perfect. The LOC is more or less the same. 90% of the model is well cast, the wings on both for example are FLAWLESS but it's the other parts, generally speaking anything that has a spiky edge that is completely ruined.

I understand GW Customer support is second to none, but it's not customer support's fault that I'd require ten copies of a model to get enough parts to build one model correctly. It's the material that I have beef with and I do not see there being a fix to this any time soon.

There's also the issue of delivery time, especially in countries like where I live in where we don't have GW stores and almost anything sent to us will reach me in more or less a month. Imagine waiting for a finecast replacement for a month, only to have the replacement be just as flawed as the original (or flawed in a different way), and you have to call them again to ask for one, and you have to wait again for a month.

Meh, I'd still say ask for a new one. If you get one that meets your specs, then you're set, if not just resell it. You won't know until you try.

Yeah but after one purchase i'll never risk buying one again. One month of waiting for uncertainty is too much of a hassle.

If they did resin properly these things wouldn't happen the problem is its really expensive to do them properly. you need a vacuum chamber and air moulding environment and all that so you know if they did it right it'd be ok, but still end up with bendy swords I'm afraid. To be fair they chose the wrong resin really. I know this for I am a materials scientist and engineer

 moogleman94 wrote:
If they did resin properly these things wouldn't happen the problem is its really expensive to do them properly. you need a vacuum chamber and air moulding environment and all that so you know if they did it right it'd be ok, but still end up with bendy swords I'm afraid. To be fair they chose the wrong resin really. I know this for I am a materials scientist and engineer

I'm not so sure that all the evils would be cured. One of the reasons I stopped buying resin was that too often, items that should be straight (like staves) come bent, and they are seemingly impossible to permanently straighten. I mean, I can warm them up and straighten them, but after time, they seem to bend back. I'm pretty sure they left the mould ok, and got bent while in the packaging; but stayed bent for a very long time. I suppose, I have never tried warming something up and leaving it in a vice for a few days to "set" it... but meh... that would be too much work to get a straight sword or staff anyhow.

At the end of the day, I just think that any single model over $15 should be made out of the easiest, most enjoyable damn material to work with!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eilif wrote:

GW is betting that alot of folks will though. That's why there are so many all plastic characters coming out. Many of them (or units similar to them) were formerly in finecast and/or metal, and quite a few of which are now 20+ bucks. It does look like GW is phasing out resin the same way they phased out metal. I'll bet in 5-10 years everything will be plastic.

As for the felt value of metal, I'm right there with you, though I think there are some good points of metal besides it's totemic value and heft.
-It is actually worth more as a substance.
-It is the most reliably strippable material, so you're not risking breakage or loss of value if you mess up a model.
-Because of the above, it tends to have a much better resale value.

Yeah, I hear you. I just blink in incredulity when I see a $25 plastic space marine, though.

To add to your list, which I absolutely agree with:

- If you mess up painting a part of a metal model, like the face, you can fix it by stripping that area only -- carefully with a tiny bit of acetone on a paintbrush, and then using brush-on primer.
- It's not only the most reliably strippable material, it's by far the easiest to strip
- Metal is much more durable, period.
- The manufacturing cost of plastic is supremely cheaper, and we all know it.

On the plus side, multipart plastic gives some types of detail not achievable with the way most metal models are cast. For instance, many GW models will use a separate part of a robe or pelt, allowing both sides of the covering and then the character behind. The metal casts will usually have a solid robe that doesn't show an bits behind, and if you look from the bottom, there's just a hunk of solid metal with no detail. In some cases, this simplifies things, but rarely will the finished product look better, and occasionally (like with a tabard), the design is significantly inferior. Obviously, there are metal models with many parts too, but you don't really see things like clothing separated out.

Talys wrote:

 moogleman94 wrote:
If they did resin properly these things wouldn't happen the problem is its really expensive to do them properly. you need a vacuum chamber and air moulding environment and all that so you know if they did it right it'd be ok, but still end up with bendy swords I'm afraid. To be fair they chose the wrong resin really. I know this for I am a materials scientist and engineer

I'm not so sure that all the evils would be cured. One of the reasons I stopped buying resin was that too often, items that should be straight (like staves) come bent, and they are seemingly impossible to permanently straighten. I mean, I can warm them up and straighten them, but after time, they seem to bend back. I'm pretty sure they left the mould ok, and got bent while in the packaging; but stayed bent for a very long time. I suppose, I have never tried warming something up and leaving it in a vice for a few days to "set" it... but meh... that would be too much work to get a straight sword or staff anyhow.

At the end of the day, I just think that any single model over $15 should be made out of the easiest, most enjoyable damn material to work with!

depends on the company, and the amount of volume they are trying to move, in my experience...
Studio McVey Limited Edition resins, the short lived Rackham Legends LE resins (right before Rackham went under), CMON LE resins, and Figuralia LE's are the most beautiful, perfect pieces i have in my collection...
they are very small runs, and each cast with care and patience...

Ilyad minis were almost perfect...
there were a few boo-boos here and there, but they upped the numbers on what they were moving compared to LE runs...

Forge World makes a lot of product, and the results show...
sometimes you get lucky, and sometimes you crap out and have to get a replacement...

i am about to receive my first Finecast minis for a commission project, and i am not looking forward to it:(...
i hope i get lucky, for the clients sake, and don't have to wait a month for replacements...
fingers crossed...

personally, i'm a huge fan of good resin, and proper plastic, but still love my metal minis, too...
i am sad to see restic becoming so prevalent, but proper plastic is a huge investment, and the price of metal is always rising...
it's a tough choice all around for companies to make these days...

cheers
jah

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I've never seen a Finecast model that didn't have apparent defects in box. I stopped looking soon after the launch and decided never to buy any. If enough people took the same approach, there wouldn't be any Finecast any more.

Funnily enough, the Finecast name has been quietly dumped because of the bloody awful reputation it has acquired.

See, that's weird, because I've only ever seen a couple of Finecast models that were of worse quality than other spincast or "hard" resin products, from GW or other companies. Now fair enough, those couple of examples were absolutely fething atrocious, and one would have to assume that whoever was working the QC line the day they were packed was a blind, drunk, syphilitic half-man half-moron to think "yeah, that'll do", but frankly I think a lot of the dislike for Finecast is a mix of preconceptions formed by the internet banter and confirmation bias - I've seen folk turn their nose up at a Finecast model with genuinely tiny insignificant defects and mere hours or days later praise another company's resin model with almost missionary zeal despite the fact the cast is of similar or substantially worse quality.

And if the name has been "quietly dumped", they have a funny way of going about that; "Citadel Finecast" is right there on the packaging.

Lord knows GW deserve a lot of crap for a lot of issues, but I've got a few Finecast models on my desk right at this very moment and they're as flawless as any resin cast can be, and they were bought "blind" from the webstore so it's not as if I went through loads of packages to find "the good one". I absolutely agree with the idea that people should stop buying an inferior product to encourage the company to change, but in this case they have done as far as I can tell - the QC works as often as any GW QC works, so if you buy GW product at all that's not a rational basis to refuse to buy Finecast; the material seems to my subjective assessment to be a bit harder and more stable than it was at the outset, on par with other companies' spincast resin models; the cleanup time gets brought up a lot, but considering how long GW's metal models that anti-Finecast folk like to swoon over took to clean up, bend, pin, and gap-fill there's an element of rose-tintery going on in that objection.

If a person doesn't like spincast resin, that's none of my business, it's entirely a matter of preference in the same way I prefer any resin to fannying about with metal, but the way a lot of folk claim that GW's spincast resin is somehow uniquely bad just doesn't stack up - it did at launch certainly, but not now.

i don't get the dislike of metal...
every material, for me, takes the same amount of prep work, and gets the same amount of pins...

the detail of metal is slightly better than plastic, but neither of them compare to the exquisite detail that comes out in a well cast resin mini...
now if you want to compare a hard resin from Forge World to a softer spincast resin from GW, i'll take the hard resin every time...
given the choice between an old version of a mini in metal, or a new version in Finecast ( i.e. Astorath, Ulric, or any of the character minis that got the switch), i always go for metal...

honestly, i would never buy a Finecast mini for my own collection, because i prefer metal way more...
this is not rose-tintery, as i work with metal right now...
it's not as if it is something that has ceased to exist, and we are dreaming of the good old days...
i have a metal Thunderfire Cannon sitting on my desk that went together with no problems, and that is one piece that people always complained about...

the dislike of metal really baffles me...

cheers
jah

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I've never seen a Finecast model that didn't have apparent defects in box. I stopped looking soon after the launch and decided never to buy any. If enough people took the same approach, there wouldn't be any Finecast any more.

Funnily enough, the Finecast name has been quietly dumped because of the bloody awful reputation it has acquired.

See, that's weird, because I've only ever seen a couple of Finecast models that were of worse quality than other spincast or "hard" resin products, from GW or other companies. ...

And if the name has been "quietly dumped", they have a funny way of going about that; "Citadel Finecast" is right there on the packaging.

...
.

Our experiences differ in regards to Finecast and other resin casts. I have had plenty of perfect resin models from other companies though I think they are usually poured resin rather than spincast.

As for the name, if you go on the GW webstore and search for Finecast, or look up a known Finecast model -- for example the Tau Sniper Drone -- you will see that the brand name is not in use. Such models are referred to as "finely detailed resin cast miniatures".

Your boxes with the Finecast name on presumably are old stock or designs that have not yet been replaced in the supply chain.

I bought 1 box of quins and 2 boxes of rangers and they were awful, plastic is so soft they were broken out of the box, now i live about 40 miles from my nearest GW store but when i spoke to GW all they said was go back to the shop....never buying finecast again

I've never had an issue with finecast and I have Urien, 6 haemonculi, 15 wracks, 5 incubi, 6 fire dragons, a Succubus, 2 farseers, 2 autarchs and a load of tyranid stuff.

Never seen a bubble or anything in any of it.

You see, herein lies the problem - a lot of people simply don't see the flaws. Perhaps they're stupendously lucky.

Personally I think it's a crap material and process, and it is a case of luck rather than reliability when a good model turns up. This said, my definition of good is 'as little work as possible to get it looking as intended'. I don't mind filling gaps at joins, pinning, cleaning flash or a bit of mould slip etc. I do mind resculpting edges on armour, clothing and faces.

Just with regards to bendy resin I've always found the best thing to do is quench the component when you've reset it.

Run it under your hot tap until flexible, shape it as necessary and then immediately dunk it in cold water, whilst holding it to the desired shape as best as possible.

Note: I've only really tried this with FW resin, not sure how well it would work with Finecast, but worth a try.

 jah-joshua wrote:
i don't get the dislike of metal...
every material, for me, takes the same amount of prep work, and gets the same amount of pins...

the detail of metal is slightly better than plastic, but neither of them compare to the exquisite detail that comes out in a well cast resin mini...
now if you want to compare a hard resin from Forge World to a softer spincast resin from GW, i'll take the hard resin every time...
given the choice between an old version of a mini in metal, or a new version in Finecast ( i.e. Astorath, Ulric, or any of the character minis that got the switch), i always go for metal...

honestly, i would never buy a Finecast mini for my own collection, because i prefer metal way more...
this is not rose-tintery, as i work with metal right now...
it's not as if it is something that has ceased to exist, and we are dreaming of the good old days...
i have a metal Thunderfire Cannon sitting on my desk that went together with no problems, and that is one piece that people always complained about...

the dislike of metal really baffles me...

cheers
jah

I'm not saying "people who prefer metal are wearing their rose tints", I'm saying people who complain specifically about the cleanup time required for Finecast specifically or resin generally have an awfully short memory, because a lot of metal models were genuine pains in the proverbial to clean up and put together. For myself, the preference for almost any resin over metal comes down to conversions and bad models; resin takes slightly more prep work than metal assuming both are good quality casts that fit together well, but it takes roughly the same amount of time to finish because resin is easier to work with(easier to see what you're doing, easier to drill, easier to trim mould lines etc), so in the end it doesn't matter unless, as I do, you tend to convert everything you can get your hands on, in which case resin comes out ahead - and in the case of a bad model, the same applies since you're dealing with the same parameters as a conversion, just to fix it rather than change it. Metal models will generally require at least two or three offerings to ol' Khorne if you try and do anything bar stick them together; my fingers have significantly fewer chunks out of them these days now I work primarily in resin and plastic.

I've had three or four finecast 40k characters - Urien Rackharth (lots o arms), Huron Blackheart, DE Llamea, all with no problems aside from the thin sheen of flash to clean out. No major casting problems, but with Huron, its hard to tell. I have an Isabella and Valkia from fantasy, again, no problems at all.

All of my forgeworld purchases have been perfect, aside from Hector Rex's sword, which was fixed with some hot water. Now perfect. (and that's an entire Dkok army, tank upgrade kits)

My LE McVey resin miniature - perfect.

My Mongoose Star Fleet resin ships - meh. Salvageable.

I much prefer metal models to plastic for just about everything except for large tanks. For infantry, as I age, I wish they were single piece metals and single piece plastics. Save so much time in clean up and assembly, considering they're used en masse (ancients, whfb) on the table.

I always buy my character models in metal where available, and have skipped on a lot of the new ones as a result of plastic pricing.

I know it always gets mentioned - if the Perry's can put out near mold-line free plastics of 34 models for $30, why can't GW. If Perry can put out near perfect metal casts at 6 models for $14, and 3 cavalry for $14, why can't GW? I know its boutique pricing, and other companies follow along in their pricing, but the "cost of metals" argument is weak when you look at the prices of metals in other miniature hobbies, and since all that plastic production is being done in house, you know that's cheaper than Perry pays for Renedra. That's the cost of being publicly traded I guess.

Bottom line means it makes me very selective in what I purchase, and in what material.

 Cruentus wrote:

I know it always gets mentioned - if the Perry's can put out near mold-line free plastics of 34 models for $30, why can't GW. If Perry can put out near perfect metal casts at 6 models for $14, and 3 cavalry for $14, why can't GW? I know its boutique pricing, and other companies follow along in their pricing, but the "cost of metals" argument is weak when you look at the prices of metals in other miniature hobbies, and since all that plastic production is being done in house, you know that's cheaper than Perry pays for Renedra. That's the cost of being publicly traded I guess.

Why? Because they can, and people are willing to pay the price.

Perry's price point could be just goodwill, but more likely they are pricing their products at what the historical market will bear. They've also got very little over head, advertising, etc.

GW charges what the market will bear, because as far as many of their fans are (unfortuntately) concerned, the ARE the market.

 jah-joshua wrote:

depends on the company, and the amount of volume they are trying to move, in my experience...
Studio McVey Limited Edition resins, the short lived Rackham Legends LE resins (right before Rackham went under), CMON LE resins, and Figuralia LE's are the most beautiful, perfect pieces i have in my collection...
they are very small runs, and each cast with care and patience...

Ilyad minis were almost perfect...
there were a few boo-boos here and there, but they upped the numbers on what they were moving compared to LE runs...

Forge World makes a lot of product, and the results show...
sometimes you get lucky, and sometimes you crap out and have to get a replacement...

Two-part casts degrade over use, so a first run will always be cleaner than run number 100,000. Specifically, over many uses the two parts of the mold will meet slightly less perfectly, giving harder to fix mold lines and higher ratio of "unacceptable" pieces. I suspect this is why a small run company is more likely to yield a perfect cast than something like Finecast.

correct, Talys...

Forge World, who keep things in stock over many years, are having to remake molds on a regular basis for big selling items, and yet their quality is still hit or miss...
a big question for a company moving a lot of stock, is how long to let things sit in the mold curing before packing that next order the client is demanding...
i suspect that is where the majority of their warping comes from, and the same has been seen in Finecast sprues...
they just don't get to sit and cure long enough:(...

for a boutique resin company like Studio McVey, they have stated that they only get about 75 copies out of a mini before they remake the mold...
since their LE's are a run of 750 each, that's ten molds per run...
nice dedication to quality...
when one sees the quality of the small run LE's, using proper resin, and then compares that to Sedition Wars, using a material similar to Finecast, you see where the quality has dropped...

it looks like things are improving over time, with restic in general, but it still can't compare with metal for mass production quality...
metal does the job well, while it seems like spincast resin is still in the experimental phase, where companies are trying new mixes, and there are a lot of growing pains...

cheers
jah

Frankly, having only had a handful of finecast myself & them having no issues, I have looked many of them over in FLGS & MANY of them were just plain BAD. To say that's just how things are now & deal with it is a mistake. There are many other companies out there producing fair to excellent models & even rules & it seems that often times (speaking as a 20 year 40k/gw veteran) this concept gw instills in our heads that they are THE company still makes us just accept from them what we wouldn't accept from Samsung or Ford. I've recently realized it's not 1995 anymore, I'm no longer a 12 year old playing 2nd edition & gw is not the be all end all game company they were back then. Finecast models being a crapshoot & hardback codices being almost what the starter set I began this game with cost pushed me out of the game & on to bigger & better things. That & plastic single figures costing as much or more than a squad box.

winterdyne wrote:
You see, herein lies the problem - a lot of people simply don't see the flaws. Perhaps they're stupendously lucky.

Personally I think it's a crap material and process, and it is a case of luck rather than reliability when a good model turns up. This said, my definition of good is 'as little work as possible to get it looking as intended'. I don't mind filling gaps at joins, pinning, cleaning flash or a bit of mould slip etc. I do mind resculpting edges on armour, clothing and faces.

To be honest I suspect there is a degree of exaggeration on both ends of the pro- to anti- spectrum.

I obviously hat quite some luck, most of my finecast models were without bubbles. And I bought 50+ over the last years for 4 armies.

I like it for conversions. But that's the only thing I like with it.

And there's so much to hate. After a warm day in the car you can realign all your weapons with a hairdryer since they look like they need a viagra...

I like a finished and painted metal model, I still have a lot of them from the last 20 years of 40k, but they were also a pain in the ass to clean of mould lines and flashes, but you had something solid at the end.

If it was for me they would just bring everything in plastic and adjust the price (lower), but they won't do that.

It boggles my mind when people say they haven't had any flawed models. Not calling them liars, but I struggle to imagine how it happens. On several occasions since it's inception I've gone to different GW stores and looked at blister pack after blister pack of flawed models and even after buying one I thought was ok, once I open it I see all the bubbles I missed.

It's all fixable, but the few models I've bought have been an additional 1-2 hours of prep time for an infantry sized model which is just not acceptable to me for models that cost so damned much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Murenius wrote:
If it was for me they would just bring everything in plastic and adjust the price (lower), but they won't do that.

I believe the problem with that is the tooling cost for converting every single thing to plastic. Given they're going away from finecast now, we'll probably eventually see exclusively plastic... but I'm not sure it'll be a good thing, as I don't expect we'll have the huge range we've had in years gone by.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It boggles my mind when people say they haven't had any flawed models. Not calling them liars, but I struggle to imagine how it happens. On several occasions since it's inception I've gone to different GW stores and looked at blister pack after blister pack of flawed models and even after buying one I thought was ok, once I open it I see all the bubbles I missed.

It's all fixable, but the few models I've bought have been an additional 1-2 hours of prep time for an infantry sized model which is just not acceptable to me for models that cost so damned much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Murenius wrote:
If it was for me they would just bring everything in plastic and adjust the price (lower), but they won't do that.

I believe the problem with that is the tooling cost for converting every single thing to plastic. Given they're going away from finecast now, we'll probably eventually see exclusively plastic... but I'm not sure it'll be a good thing, as I don't expect we'll have the huge range we've had in years gone by.

"I'm not calling you a liar, I just can't believe that what you're saying is true"

 Yodhrin wrote:
"I'm not calling you a liar, I just can't believe that what you're saying is true"

It's totally possible to believe someone is saying is true but not understand how those circumstances could actually arise

Either GW have regionally poor models and it's just all the models in my city (3 GW stores I've checked) are flawed but some other region they are ok... or some people are freakishly lucky... or some people don't think what they have is flawed when another person would think it is flawed.

Basically I'm saying it's one of those things rather than me thinking people are lying

I don't get it. If it's a problem just return it for a new one. No GW store will deny a bad casting return. If you don't like them then I get it. Otherwise it's just a complaint thread.

It *is* just a complaint thread?

I had a Lord of Change, however after leaving him alone in a warm room, he melted and snapped at the foot. He was the only model to do so. The rest of my metal and plastic army was intact.

I got a yarrick that only had one defect I could notice: There was a small bubble in the storm bolter barrel. It was pretty easily filled.

Of course, when compared to the 3 or 4 other finecast models I have that sport massive problems, that doesn't really speak to high quality when the most positive thing you can say is "this guy was almost okay".

My roommate got a jump chaplin that was perfect as far as either of us could tell, but that was the replacement for the one that looked like he went through a meat grinder.

 Sammoth wrote:
I don't get it. If it's a problem just return it for a new one. No GW store will deny a bad casting return. If you don't like them then I get it. Otherwise it's just a complaint thread.

some of us happen to live 1,000 miles, and a $500 round trip, from the nearest GW store...
it takes a month for the mini to get to me, and a month to ship something back...

i have my first Finecast minis coming to me right now for a commission...
ironically, for characters that i own the metal versions of myself, but don't have with me here...
seen as how my customer is not going to want to wait 2 months at a time while i do the Replacement Rumba , i am going to have to hope that i get lucky with the Finecast Roulette, or put in a lot of extra work...

now, i love GW minis, art, and fluff, and defend what i love about the company with no shame...
what i don't love, is having a material that served me just fine since 1985 replaced with a sub-par material, and being told it is the best thing since sliced bread...
i check the shops every time i go back home to L.A., and walk away with nothing, because the material doesn't meet my standard for quality...

the same happened with PP's switch to "plastic"...
i love PP's minis, but have not bought a single one of their restic minis, since it all looks like a mess...
it is sad to see metal going away, but i understand the economics of the situation...

i am only one small customer, and the loss of my money is not a big deal for companies using spincast resin...
i don't complain, i just buy what meets my standard (metal, proper resin, and proper plastic), and carry on painting...

cheers
jah

 Vulcan wrote:
"The way it is now" is that I haven't bought one single thing in Finecast and I never will.

"I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."

weeble1000 wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
"The way it is now" is that I haven't bought one single thing in Finecast and I never will.

"I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."

That's a completely spurious comparison weebs; Kirk eventually moderated his negative opinions of Klingons

 Yodhrin wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
"The way it is now" is that I haven't bought one single thing in Finecast and I never will.

"I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."

That's a completely spurious comparison weebs; Kirk eventually moderated his negative opinions of Klingons

Ah, darn! You're right. Plenty of folks got killed along the way though.

I would have laughed at this until this morning. I have never had anything but good luck with finecast until I opened up a 3 year olf Empire warpriest to use as the base of my xenos inquisitor. The thing feels like it made of foam rubber.

You can squeeze the model. Do you understand? The model is rubbery, bendable, and sponge like. What an unbelievable pile of garbage. I put it in the freezer all day and it didn't seem to help it any.

 PhillyT wrote:
I would have laughed at this until this morning. I have never had anything but good luck with finecast until I opened up a 3 year olf Empire warpriest to use as the base of my xenos inquisitor. The thing feels like it made of foam rubber.

You can squeeze the model. Do you understand? The model is rubbery, bendable, and sponge like. What an unbelievable pile of garbage. I put it in the freezer all day and it didn't seem to help it any.

That sounds really off.

Was it some kinda recast? or was it direct from gw?

you should of contacted gw about it if it was direct from gw.

 PhillyT wrote:
I would have laughed at this until this morning. I have never had anything but good luck with finecast until I opened up a 3 year olf Empire warpriest to use as the base of my xenos inquisitor. The thing feels like it made of foam rubber.

You can squeeze the model. Do you understand? The model is rubbery, bendable, and sponge like. What an unbelievable pile of garbage. I put it in the freezer all day and it didn't seem to help it any.

GW secretly trying to recreate (and failing) the formula Reaper uses for Bones?

START UP THE RUMOR MILL! WE'RE WORKING OVERTIME TONIGHT!

Bought a figure from a Brit on Ebay, never saw them in the US, the Blood Angle Captain that was pictured on the first ever 40K boxed set, well he has a bubble nose... meaning no nose. So being the non-model master that I am... Attempting to fix it as I type. No bueno...

I've never had the issues with finecast that some people seem to have. They've all been good casts with no bubbles. The only problem I have is the metric ton of flash, usually in detailed areas where it's nearly impossible to remove all the flash without removing detail. I also have to remember not to leave my case in the hot car. I usually go start the car and blast the AC, then go back inside to get the case. When I get to GW it goes straight inside and stays there until I leave. Luckily I live 1/4 mile from GW so I drop the case off at home before I do anything else. I left it in the car once with my finecast TDA rune priest inside. After a day in the sun in Alabama in the middle of July his force axe looked like a banana :(

I was talking with the temp at my local GW today and mentioned I'd love to paint some of those old Lord of the Rings heroes but most are fincast now.

He tried giving me a whole speech about how it was better than metal.

That didn't end well.

 Sammoth wrote:
I don't get it. If it's a problem just return it for a new one. No GW store will deny a bad casting return. If you don't like them then I get it. Otherwise it's just a complaint thread.

Well, it is basically just a complaint thread But yeah, it is a problem when it happens almost every friggin time especially if you didn't buy it from an actual GW store. Between me purchasing my Lord Commissar and getting my replacement (which was also flawed) took about a month. I find that rather unacceptable for something that cost $26AUD for a single infantry sized model.

 Desubot wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
I would have laughed at this until this morning. I have never had anything but good luck with finecast until I opened up a 3 year olf Empire warpriest to use as the base of my xenos inquisitor. The thing feels like it made of foam rubber.

You can squeeze the model. Do you understand? The model is rubbery, bendable, and sponge like. What an unbelievable pile of garbage. I put it in the freezer all day and it didn't seem to help it any.

That sounds really off.

Was it some kinda recast? or was it direct from gw?

you should of contacted gw about it if it was direct from gw.

He said it was three years old. As in when Finecast first was likely being done. I recently got gifted a set of Blood Knights that were likely just as old and one of the horses has the same issue.

It also did not have a proper second side to the horse, which was more problematic...
Games Workshop sent me an entirely new boxed set of Blood Knights.
A second box of Blood Knights because one Blood Knight's horse was off...

 Kanluwen wrote:
A second box of Blood Knights because one Blood Knight's horse was off...

Which shows the junk is so cheap and crappy they'd rather give you a complete new set than waste their time casting a single new horse

If there's one good thing come out of finecast it's that the community at large now has greater experience with their customer service... I don't consider this a good thing in the grand scheme of things

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
I would have laughed at this until this morning. I have never had anything but good luck with finecast until I opened up a 3 year olf Empire warpriest to use as the base of my xenos inquisitor. The thing feels like it made of foam rubber.

You can squeeze the model. Do you understand? The model is rubbery, bendable, and sponge like. What an unbelievable pile of garbage. I put it in the freezer all day and it didn't seem to help it any.

That sounds really off.

Was it some kinda recast? or was it direct from gw?

you should of contacted gw about it if it was direct from gw.

He said it was three years old. As in when Finecast first was likely being done. I recently got gifted a set of Blood Knights that were likely just as old and one of the horses has the same issue.

It also did not have a proper second side to the horse, which was more problematic...
Games Workshop sent me an entirely new boxed set of Blood Knights.
A second box of Blood Knights because one Blood Knight's horse was off...

Given they don't have a parts service anymore that's probably cheaper for them. The resin itself for that kit would cost what, $1? And casting only a single piece of the set is probably a hell of a lot harder than writing off one of the boxes gathering dust on a shelf.

 Jackal wrote:
GW really didnt think it through.

Sure they did. They thought about all the money they'd bring in switching to a cheaper material and being able to bump the price as well. They also thought about firing the guy who suggested it was a bad material.

You thought they would think about the end consumer product? Pffft, that's not what their business is about.

I think the thing is that not only are a lot of people done with finecast but GW are as well. My local GW is phasing it out and has barely any finecast stock in store. Also what was the last GW finecast release?

It is a terrible material and is a terribly failed experiment in money making from the company. I, for one, welcome the materials demise.

 -Loki- wrote:
They thought about all the money they'd bring in switching to a cheaper material and being able to bump the price as well.

The sad thing is they probably could have made more money with finecast. Their target market is primarily younger kids who don't care about miscasts because they're going to rip the parts off the sprue, glue everything together in something vaguely resembling the right arrangement with giant puddles of glue, and maybe if they're feeling very ambitious cover the whole mess in a nice thick layer of some random color of paint. And then they're going to throw it into a shoebox full of other models, so all the delicate bits that weren't miscast are going to break off anyway. And they're not going to care about it one bit because it's just another toy that will probably be forgotten within a month. So in that context finecast looks like a reasonable business decision. Sure, it makes some of the older customers unhappy and costs some money in replacements, but it makes up for it by milking the cash cow more efficiently.

 Desubot wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
I would have laughed at this until this morning. I have never had anything but good luck with finecast until I opened up a 3 year olf Empire warpriest to use as the base of my xenos inquisitor. The thing feels like it made of foam rubber.

You can squeeze the model. Do you understand? The model is rubbery, bendable, and sponge like. What an unbelievable pile of garbage. I put it in the freezer all day and it didn't seem to help it any.

That sounds really off.

Was it some kinda recast? or was it direct from gw?

you should of contacted gw about it if it was direct from gw.

It was still in the box! I have had it for three years. Cut it open and just bizarre. I have had ten or so fine cast models and they were fine. This was like nothing I have ever seen. Like rubber. I started the conversion last night but I don't know if I'll finish it. What will the paint do if it deforms?

 jonolikespie wrote:
I was talking with the temp at my local GW today and mentioned I'd love to paint some of those old Lord of the Rings heroes but most are fincast now.

He tried giving me a whole speech about how it was better than metal.

That didn't end well.

How didn't it end well? When ever I get into these conversations the GW employees always end up getting upset, when I say some of their products are crap and how they rip off their customers, and then even call up on their "lies" they spew out so they can sell product.

Example, I say GW has said, and Yes when a Red shirt says something, they speak on GW behalf, that when things are not metal anymore and go to plastic (or fine cast in this case) products would become cheaper. When that didn't happen they had no response or excuse for it. Then they make an excuse for something else to "deflect" or change the subject. I am curious what happened in your case.

Not sure if this has been said already, though I dont think gw do the "no problem, here's a replacement" without you returning the faulty one to them first. They asked me to do this with my incubi.

 kitch102 wrote:
Not sure if this has been said already, though I dont think gw do the "no problem, here's a replacement" without you returning the faulty one to them first. They asked me to do this with my incubi.

All depends. I had a small issue with my Venomthrope. I was missing the small tail or it was badly miscast I just thought it was flash. I didn't complain, I didn't ask for anything. I called Customer Service to let them know that there was a problem and might want to look at it just in case it was on a bigger scale. I said it doesn't effect me because the tails were so tiny, I didn't care. Just wanted to say if it happened on such a minor thing, it could have happened on a major thing.

GW sent me a new Venomthrope so the fins can be replace or have a complete mini. I didn't ask for a replacement and they replaced it without proof. When I had issues with my Tyranid Codex Limited edition, I showed them proof with pictures and emailed them and they replaced it. So sometimes they ask for proof, other times they don't depending on what is being talked about I guess.

Thing is, no matter HOW BAD Finecase is, GW puts their money where their mouth is. They will replace it until you are satisfied. Yes it sucks when it takes time to get the replacements, but at least GW does it, at their own cost. In the end you usually end up with 2 (maybe more) miniatures for the price of one you bought.

Davor wrote:
How didn't it end well? When ever I get into these conversations the GW employees always end up getting upset, when I say some of their products are crap and how they rip off their customers, and then even call up on their "lies" they spew out so they can sell product.

Example, I say GW has said, and Yes when a Red shirt says something, they speak on GW behalf, that when things are not metal anymore and go to plastic (or fine cast in this case) products would become cheaper. When that didn't happen they had no response or excuse for it. Then they make an excuse for something else to "deflect" or change the subject. I am curious what happened in your case.

I challenged every argument he tried to make basically, and in a crowded store he wouldn't want any of that overheard.

He tried saying it was good because assembling the old coldron of blood was awful. I agreed that that model should have been made plastic long ago. Doesn't help finecast though.

He said he only had one bad one and returned it no problem. I countered that I only had one good enough to paint and it later bent at room temperature.

He said that's easy to fix. I countered that no one who considers themselves a painter is going to be happy with dipping a finished model in hot water to fix it.

As soon as he had my money I felt very much like I was being rushed out of the store and the conversion ended right there.

I actually like the regular guy we have there, he doesn't question why I ask if he knows if x lord of the rings character is still metal and has told me if I order to the store, open the box and get something finecast he's happy to replace it there and then. That redshirt understands people have opinions of things and doesn't state his own as if it somehow overrides yours any time someone says they are not a fan of the most recent release, which seems to be GW salesmanship 101 from all the other redshirts I've met.

Davor wrote:

 kitch102 wrote:

Thing is, no matter HOW BAD Finecase is, GW puts their money where their mouth is. They will replace it until you are satisfied. Yes it sucks when it takes time to get the replacements, but at least GW does it, at their own cost. In the end you usually end up with 2 (maybe more) miniatures for the price of one you bought.

Of course they replace it, it is the law they don't really have a choose.