now that we have a solid sampling of their core units and rules, do you guys see anything yet that alters the meta? To me they seem a little stronger against Xenos and GEQ than PA forces, so maybe it will continue the slow move towards a balance between IoM and Xenos?

I could see a few more sniper lists or atleast included squads with the Galvanic Rifles that punish the hidden power fists. No chance for Look Out Sir in a unit that actually does REAL damage and the sniper shot is just a bonus. Other than that, nothing is really game changing from what I'm seeing. The Cognis ability gives some pseudo Fast/Skyfire and other snap shot reasons but again, not game changing.

Well, I'll say this, I certainly don't see the point of Scions or DKoK Grenadiers anymore

That said, the cost of their Plasma Gun equivalent is insane

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, I'll say this, I certainly don't see the point of Scions or DKoK Grenadiers anymore

That said, the cost of their Plasma Gun equivalent is insane

Well it is A3 and 18"...Though yeah it's expensive.

I'm just amused by how many Tasers are in the army though, be like a fancy light show every time the Skitarri fight.

Though disappointed by lack of dedicated melee unit so far, though I think the Scions still have the fact that they have Orders and vehicles/transports.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, I'll say this, I certainly don't see the point of Scions or DKoK Grenadiers anymore

That said, the cost of their Plasma Gun equivalent is insane

They have AP3 lasgun too?

I do see them being very similar to many IG options. Longer range special weapon veterans without a flyer (for now). Their MSU looks solid, and they certainly will perform well in maelstrom games with all those walkers.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, I'll say this, I certainly don't see the point of Scions or DKoK Grenadiers anymore

That said, the cost of their Plasma Gun equivalent is insane

They have AP3 lasgun too?

S4 AP4 with Pulse Rifle ranges and Precision Shots, and 3 specials at 10 strong, along with higher Ld, lots of Ld boosters, and FNP 6+, and they're cheaper than Scions/Grenadiers.

I never get anything out of that AP3 anyway, especially at S3 and 9" for double-tap

I'm not impressed so far, those walkers are just war walkers and no one takes them because a light breeze murders them, as for the infantry they are short ranged and gooey.

I'm seeing a foot slogging seriously strong short ranged army with okay durability.

Until we see the orders, the HQ, elites, relics and warlord traits Im not all that worried about this.

I also think its not gonna be clear where the army stands until we see the rest of the info.

Imagine seeing Imperial guard troops for the first time with just their stats and cost. Pretty pathetic right? Add to that the order system, buffs by priests/psykers/ warlord traits and of course support by the rest of the codex, and suddenly you have a resilient, hard-hitting blob that defies expectations.

So I think until the final codex is out and we have all the units revealed things will be uncertain.

One thing I love is that, if they don't purchase CC weapons, tau can match them in melee.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
One thing I love is that, if they don't purchase CC weapons, tau can match them in melee.

They have 6+ FNP and one of them lowers Tau Toughness to T2.

As well as WS3.

I find it's the initiative that hurts me the most generally.

Tau are int 2 the Skitarii are int 3.

I thought tau were int3, and the base was 4... Just me being forgetful again.

AV 11 walkers with 2 HP? I'll pass. I sold all my dreads after 20-25 games of 7th where they never got their points back before blowing up no matter how I played them. Are these going to be the harlequins of the Imperium; cool models that get blown off the table by a light breeze?

That was the Scion job, their flyer was their most armored unit.

 Toofast wrote:
AV 11 walkers with 2 HP? I'll pass. I sold all my dreads after 20-25 games of 7th where they never got their points back before blowing up no matter how I played them. Are these going to be the harlequins of the Imperium; cool models that get blown off the table by a light breeze?

I look at the walkers and I see basicly a better sentinal.

 Toofast wrote:
AV 11 walkers with 2 HP? I'll pass. I sold all my dreads after 20-25 games of 7th where they never got their points back before blowing up no matter how I played them. Are these going to be the harlequins of the Imperium; cool models that get blown off the table by a light breeze?

Dreadnoughts are bad because they're 100-120 pts

The skatari walkers are 45-55 points. That is cheap

45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent. I just don't see much competitive potential here. Hopefully the rest of their stuff will be better. If not I'll just stick to forge world mechanicum. The models look better and are much more powerful on the tabletop.

Good. I'd be glad to have my opponent waste shooting on such a cheap unit

I just hope there is at least 1 heavy armor type walker that is built to slug it out with other tanks. Now I don't want a Leman Russ with Legs. Perhaps something more mobile with slightly less firepower with similar armor.

Of the things shown for the walkers, did anyone expect a Skitarri primed and ready to joust things with a gigantic taser on what amounts to a sentinel?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Of the things shown for the walkers, did anyone expect a Skitarri primed and ready to joust things with a gigantic taser on what amounts to a sentinel?

I will be honest. I didn't expect Chicken-Walker Robot Jousting.

Yes its all grimdark and what-not but it just doesn't strike me as...... Ad Mech.....

I would expect something more akin to a guy strapped (through some extreame bionics and such) into the machine with it laden with guns and it goes Terminator on the enemy, relentlessly hunting them in a cold, efficient manner.



ONwards my Steed!




To battle for the Omnissiah!!






Wait a second.....

 Engine of War wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Of the things shown for the walkers, did anyone expect a Skitarri primed and ready to joust things with a gigantic taser on what amounts to a sentinel?

I will be honest. I didn't expect Chicken-Walker Robot Jousting.

Yes its all grimdark and what-not but it just doesn't strike me as...... Ad Mech.....

I would expect something more akin to a guy strapped (through some extreame bionics and such) into the machine with it laden with guns and it goes Terminator on the enemy, relentlessly hunting them in a cold, efficient manner.

Well these are Skitarri, they do most of the major heavy lifting and one could expect that the Taser walkers are built and designed to capture large things, they do come on plenty of explorator fleets and overall is designed to protect their betters, I suppose they could be designed for various things in order to provide help for their leaders.

Yeah I want DR. Octopus style super tentacle robed heartless cold mechanical guys! Still pumped for Admech though.

One thing to remember is Skiratii are most often deployed to battle zones in support of the titan legions. the ironstrider and dragoon are noted as being part of their scout force.

Thus I imagine These

riding as outriders for...
these


so yes go ahead and waste your firepower on my ironstriders and dragoons. meanwhile the titan I'm escorting is ripping you apart

While the design of those walkers are, in my opinion, horrible, they are cheap and can be in 5-man squads. Seems an interesting option.

Ah, and they get +3" to move/charge/run. awesomesauce!

Anyways, the things that got my attention were the Arc weapons (haywire galore) and Taser ('oomies' tesla'). If Skitarii get any kind of good transports, I could leave my melta at home

Well am not the one to go all out feminist in a hobby dominated by man, but those walker models are sexist or what. Unless the "horses" are ex male balet dancers then it is all ok.

Also thanks GW for kind of a fixing my army. Maybe ill counts as my IG as mechanicus. I even have enough of the IG the walkers to do that. Got over 16 from friend that left the game.

How the flying feth is the walker SEXIST?!

I mean, seriously. HOW?

There is nothing about it that is gender-related. I'm not even sure the soldiers HAVE genders considering they are admech and all.

 BoomWolf wrote:
How the flying feth is the walker SEXIST?!

I mean, seriously. HOW?

There is nothing about it that is gender-related. I'm not even sure the soldiers HAVE genders considering they are admech and all.

Troll-ololol?

Actually, I wonder if he's referring to the feet on it? Some dummy might think that they're supposed to resemble heels, which they obviously don't since we can see that they go flat when the foot is all the way on the ground. It might be an attempted cross-reference to the whole "Zero Suit Samus has rocket heels now for some unfathomable reason", which actually was kind of sexist.

I think arc weapons are the real winners so far. Str.6 rapidfire with haywire at a mere 15 points is a steal. The fact that rangers can get three at 10 men is just plain criminal. Ally in some drop pods or put them in a valkerie and you've got a great solution to knights and other vehicles for a very reasonable cost.

Every keeps saying 3 in a 10 man. It's 3 in a 5 man and 4 in a 10 man (the "sarg" gets a special weapon too). I see MSU working well.

Also the walkers can come in 6 man squads, not 5.

 Lobukia wrote:
Every keeps saying 3 in a 10 man. It's 3 in a 5 man and 4 in a 10 man (the "sarg" gets a special weapon too). I see MSU working well.

Also the walkers can come in 6 man squads, not 5.

Because it is 3, the Alpha's can only take from Melee, Ranged, Special Issue Wargear, and Relics of Mars, not the Special Weapons tab.

I'm curious how well Skitarii would work allied with a Taghmata Omnissiah or a Legio Cybernetica. I've been thinking of building a Mechanicum army for awhile now, but mostly the cost has held me at bay so far.

Looking this over though, I don't think it would work very well either as fluff or not. Some of the rules are a little bit synergistic but for the most part they use completely different equipment and special rules. Also just from a fluff perspective I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense? I've read the Forgeworld books regarding the Mechanicum, but I don't know a lot about the Skitarii.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Every keeps saying 3 in a 10 man. It's 3 in a 5 man and 4 in a 10 man (the "sarg" gets a special weapon too). I see MSU working well.

Also the walkers can come in 6 man squads, not 5.

Because it is 3, the Alpha's can only take from Melee, Ranged, Special Issue Wargear, and Relics of Mars, not the Special Weapons tab.

Good catch, my bad.

Murrdox wrote:
I'm curious how well Skitarii would work allied with a Taghmata Omnissiah or a Legio Cybernetica. I've been thinking of building a Mechanicum army for awhile now, but mostly the cost has held me at bay so far.

Looking this over though, I don't think it would work very well either as fluff or not. Some of the rules are a little bit synergistic but for the most part they use completely different equipment and special rules. Also just from a fluff perspective I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense? I've read the Forgeworld books regarding the Mechanicum, but I don't know a lot about the Skitarii.

Unless you house rule it, you can't ally 30k Mechanicum and 40k Adeptus Mechanicus. And you really wouldn't need to as the 30k Mechanicum is easily good enough on its own.

 BoomWolf wrote:
How the flying feth is the walker SEXIST?!

I mean, seriously. HOW?

There is nothing about it that is gender-related. I'm not even sure the soldiers HAVE genders considering they are admech and all.

Take the pic to your mom or sister show her the "driver" and ask her if that is offensive or not.

Makumba wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
How the flying feth is the walker SEXIST?!

I mean, seriously. HOW?

There is nothing about it that is gender-related. I'm not even sure the soldiers HAVE genders considering they are admech and all.

Take the pic to your mom or sister show her the "driver" and ask her if that is offensive or not.

I'm not sure the driver is female. Pretty sure that the chest piece is a padded metal frame the servitor is resting on. I mean the riders toes barely meet the servitor's body... I don't find the pilot/gunner in a Valkyrie sexual, nor do I see that element here.

From what Im seeing and toying with the points its looking like the best approach is MSU spam targets each with a powerful array of weapons, 3 ironstriders are 165pts. 5 vanguard with 2 arc rifles is 85pts. 135pts for 3 of the assault ones who against tanks and ws3 will have 12 s8 hits, and 10 s8 hits against ws4-8.

That I can see is where it becomes competitive. Combined with the orders and we'll see how far their offense goes.

Basically think of them as imperial dark eldar.

Makumba wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
How the flying feth is the walker SEXIST?!

I mean, seriously. HOW?

There is nothing about it that is gender-related. I'm not even sure the soldiers HAVE genders considering they are admech and all.

Take the pic to your mom or sister show her the "driver" and ask her if that is offensive or not.

Thanks Anita, you wanna tell us that 40k causes violence too? Maybe we should ban everything that hurts our feelings.

 foto69man wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
I'm curious how well Skitarii would work allied with a Taghmata Omnissiah or a Legio Cybernetica. I've been thinking of building a Mechanicum army for awhile now, but mostly the cost has held me at bay so far.

Looking this over though, I don't think it would work very well either as fluff or not. Some of the rules are a little bit synergistic but for the most part they use completely different equipment and special rules. Also just from a fluff perspective I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense? I've read the Forgeworld books regarding the Mechanicum, but I don't know a lot about the Skitarii.

Unless you house rule it, you can't ally 30k Mechanicum and 40k Adeptus Mechanicus. And you really wouldn't need to as the 30k Mechanicum is easily good enough on its own.

My motivation for this alliance isn't supplied by rules, but moreover the capacity of my wallet! I haven't seen prices yet, but I'm guessing I could save a lot of money on a Mechanicum army by doing say 750 points of Skitarii and 750 points of Forgeworld Mechanicum.

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent. I just don't see much competitive potential here. Hopefully the rest of their stuff will be better. If not I'll just stick to forge world mechanicum. The models look better and are much more powerful on the tabletop.

Yeah cause God forbid anyone put a fluffy army on the table that is not a combination of the most uber points/performance efficient units available across all the books and formations it has access to.........FFS

 quickfuze wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent. I just don't see much competitive potential here. Hopefully the rest of their stuff will be better. If not I'll just stick to forge world mechanicum. The models look better and are much more powerful on the tabletop.

Yeah cause God forbid anyone put a fluffy army on the table that is not a combination of the most uber points/performance efficient units available across all the books and formations it has access to.........FFS

How 'I don't see much competitive potential in this army' was read as 'god forbid anyone put a fluffy army on the table' beats me...

Personally I like the infantry of the skiitari way better than the light infantry of the Mechanicum, so I will definitely be adding in Skiitari to my mechanicum army using Thallax as troops for the mechanicum. So they'll bring the heavy infantry and the MCs and the skiitari will bring the infantry.

Without a transport though those guys are gonna be pretty much MSU all the way.

Even less reason to bring Landraiders now :/

So much haywire.

 Desubot wrote:
Even less reason to bring Landraiders now :/

So much haywire.

And I am just about to invest in a Spartan Assault Tank :(

Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

Wait.

So a 75 point walker with precision shots on a twin-linked Lascannon that snap fires on bs2 strikes people as NOT awesome?

That thing is gonna snipe out a special weapon/force multiplier unit every turn and if it doesn't have something like that to fire at it'll take a shot at some kind of vehicle. If the AdMech HQ choice is cheap and decent, a double-detachment running six of those walkers solo with Lascannons alongside MSU rangers rocking the max number of arc rifles will be a scary thing.

By every turn, you mean roughly once per game? It still needs to roll a 6 to hit in order to pick a target.

Man, looking at the Skitarii unit, they're everything I ever wanted IG Stormtroopers to be. Screw the AP3, give me the 18" assault 3 S3 guns and some interesting options.

I want to "like" Vaktathi's post. Can't say it better myself.

Personally I see the opportunity for a lot of shenanigans with the abundance of precision shots in this army. Anyone fielding Death Company with hidden power fists isn't going to have a good time. Not to mention being able to snipe out Sergeants for leadership shenanigans. I can't wait to see what the HQ options bring, as well as Relics of Mars.

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

Lets be real here lizard, it's generally accepted that nothing short of Titans can punish decurion necrons, and even then...

Unless of course the person fielding them is new.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
How the flying feth is the walker SEXIST?!

I mean, seriously. HOW?

There is nothing about it that is gender-related. I'm not even sure the soldiers HAVE genders considering they are admech and all.

Troll-ololol?

Actually, I wonder if he's referring to the feet on it? Some dummy might think that they're supposed to resemble heels, which they obviously don't since we can see that they go flat when the foot is all the way on the ground. It might be an attempted cross-reference to the whole "Zero Suit Samus has rocket heels now for some unfathomable reason", which actually was kind of sexist.

Only the winner of the ultimate nerd contest could possibly find the Skitarri to be sexually arousing >.<

 Talys wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
How the flying feth is the walker SEXIST?!

I mean, seriously. HOW?

There is nothing about it that is gender-related. I'm not even sure the soldiers HAVE genders considering they are admech and all.

Troll-ololol?

Actually, I wonder if he's referring to the feet on it? Some dummy might think that they're supposed to resemble heels, which they obviously don't since we can see that they go flat when the foot is all the way on the ground. It might be an attempted cross-reference to the whole "Zero Suit Samus has rocket heels now for some unfathomable reason", which actually was kind of sexist.

Only the winner of the ultimate nerd contest could possibly find the Skitarri to be sexually arousing >.<

I'm game for anything at least once...

 Desubot wrote:
Even less reason to bring Landraiders now :/

So much haywire.

Just don't come within 30" of the arc rifle squads, its not like there will be 3 in each or anything.... Oh wait.

Im starting to get the impression that GW really doesn't want people taking tanks. Even imperial knights drop to haywire on a scale like that. Not to mention those riders getting a ton of s8 hits with even a small number of them.

 McGibs wrote:
By every turn, you mean roughly once per game? It still needs to roll a 6 to hit in order to pick a target.

remember they can be run in squadrons of 6. On average you're looking at 2 precision shots per round of fire from a full sized unit of the iron striders.

BrianDavion wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
By every turn, you mean roughly once per game? It still needs to roll a 6 to hit in order to pick a target.

remember they can be run in squadrons of 6. On average you're looking at 2 precision shots per round of fire from a full sized unit of the iron striders.

that's kind of wasteful for 270pts of dudes for 12 sniper shots when they can just charge things and get 20 s8 attacks against anything that is ws4, or better yet, 24 s8 hits against anything they hit on 3+. I'd rather take them MSU style in squads of 3 and go tank and small unit hunting.

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

This isn't that big of a deal. Precision shots isn't that great. Lots of armies can do it. Lots of sniper kroot or SM scouts. You can do it easily with cheap ratlings or mass lasguns. It usually doesn't work out as a game changer.

nedTCM wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

This isn't that big of a deal. Precision shots isn't that great. Lots of armies can do it. Lots of sniper kroot or SM scouts. You can do it easily with cheap ratlings or mass lasguns. It usually doesn't work out as a game changer.

With the first three you are relying on immobile snipers, with Kroot at 24" and then there's the issue of most of them being BS3 (ratlings BS4), and being far more vulnerable at having no armor, or T2.

With Galvonic Rifles they'll still be able to move and shoot, while having vastly better protections against standard weaponry as well as being able to reliably penetrate armor at AP4, and at 15" being able to double tap.

While not exactly vast in difference, it's still quite better, they are even one point more then ratling's even.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


With the first three you are relying on immobile snipers, with Kroot at 24" and then there's the issue of most of them being BS3 (ratlings BS4), and being far more vulnerable at having no armor, or T2.

With Galvonic Rifles they'll still be able to move and shoot, while having vastly better protections against standard weaponry as well as being able to reliably penetrate armor at AP4, and at 15" being able to double tap.

While not exactly vast in difference, it's still quite better, they are even one point more then ratling's even.

I am not saying they are bad. They sounds pretty cool. I just don't think precision shot is that big of a deal it is just a nice added bonus. Having a decent strength AP4 long range weapon is the pretty awesome.

nedTCM wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


With the first three you are relying on immobile snipers, with Kroot at 24" and then there's the issue of most of them being BS3 (ratlings BS4), and being far more vulnerable at having no armor, or T2.

With Galvonic Rifles they'll still be able to move and shoot, while having vastly better protections against standard weaponry as well as being able to reliably penetrate armor at AP4, and at 15" being able to double tap.

While not exactly vast in difference, it's still quite better, they are even one point more then ratling's even.

I am not saying they are bad. They sounds pretty cool. I just don't think precision shot is that big of a deal it is just a nice added bonus. Having a decent strength AP4 long range weapon is the pretty awesome.

I see the precision shots as a "nice to have" not a "vital"

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

The ballistic skill of a model with precision shots doesn't really matter when it only activates on a 6 anyway. Really, you want a low BS on a Precision Shotter so you have more chance of getting a reroll if you don't get a 6 to hit when you inevitably jimmy Twin Liked onto them.

Much like the Necrons, these guys are designed to shift the meta back towards massed infantry formations, now that everyone has bought all the Knights and Shiny Toys they'll need in the foreseeable future.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The ballistic skill of a model with precision shots doesn't really matter when it only activates on a 6 anyway. Really, you want a low BS on a Precision Shotter so you have more chance of getting a reroll if you don't get a 6 to hit when you inevitably jimmy Twin Liked onto them.

Much like the Necrons, these guys are designed to shift the meta back towards massed infantry formations, now that everyone has bought all the Knights and Shiny Toys they'll need in the foreseeable future.

Just you wait until new Tau codex comes with a Riptide strapped to the chest of a bigger battlesuit :p

I also don't think think providing a few factions with viable infantry will shift the meta as a whole toward infantry, as I see no reason for the other factions to stop fielding their MCs.

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

And Chaos in general.

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The ballistic skill of a model with precision shots doesn't really matter when it only activates on a 6 anyway. Really, you want a low BS on a Precision Shotter so you have more chance of getting a reroll if you don't get a 6 to hit when you inevitably jimmy Twin Liked onto them.

Much like the Necrons, these guys are designed to shift the meta back towards massed infantry formations, now that everyone has bought all the Knights and Shiny Toys they'll need in the foreseeable future.

I dunno, Knights aren't exactly going to be push overs for the Skitarii to handle. sure you'll be able to handle em but a Knight'd proably be able to handle it's points worth of admech.


those arc rifles only have a 24 inch range, if you can't handle that with an Imperial Knight you're doing something wrong. a well played Knight Paladin will BUTCHER a squad of Skiritarii

 BoomWolf wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

How many times would you field a Tau gunline that:
-Doesn't have a Devilfish in which the Ethereal can hide
-doesn't have a Los blocking terrain nearby to hide the Ethereal behind.

 BoomWolf wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

And it's a goodbye to fireblades.

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent.

Any less survivable than a landspeeder for similar points?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

And it's a goodbye to fireblades.

Fireblades true. Forgot about that. They're worth way less if you hide them out of LOS like ypu would with an Ethereal.

When I saw the skitarii, an image popped immediately into my head:

LordBlades wrote:



How many times would you field a Tau gunline that:
-Doesn't have a Devilfish in which the Ethereal can hide
-doesn't have a Los blocking terrain nearby to hide the Ethereal behind.

No kidding, the only time Ive seen Tau take ethereals in a competitive scene was space pope behind an bastion and my buddies ethereal that never left the devil fish and scooted around giving bonuses. Plus what competitive tau player isn't running a buffmander attached to some monstrosity of a unit? Missilesides and a buffmander are auto win against many people. Got 10 rangers? That's cool, I have 24 missiles that ignore cover, your armour and ignore your FNP and can target 4 separate units.

 Ravenous D wrote:

LordBlades wrote:



How many times would you field a Tau gunline that:
-Doesn't have a Devilfish in which the Ethereal can hide
-doesn't have a Los blocking terrain nearby to hide the Ethereal behind.

No kidding, the only time Ive seen Tau take ethereals in a competitive scene was space pope behind an bastion and my buddies ethereal that never left the devil fish and scooted around giving bonuses. Plus what competitive tau player isn't running a buffmander attached to some monstrosity of a unit? Missilesides and a buffmander are auto win against many people. Got 10 rangers? That's cool, I have 24 missiles that ignore cover, your armour and ignore your FNP and can target 4 separate units.

C'mon, Tau are no Eldar; Waveserpents kill all.

SGTPozy wrote:


C'mon, Tau are no Eldar; Waveserpents kill all.

Wave serpents are only a problem for people that are either bad at the game or refuse to step up their game. That same missileside unit + buffmander unit can trash 2 serpents a turn, or cripple 4 a turn by stunning and shaking them.

The skittari codex, even without what the ad mech codex might bring, has a lot of powerful options in it to counter various things in the current meta.

It's glaring weakness is transports from what we have seen so far.

It has the ability to reduce cover saves by up to 2 from shooting, which is fairly potent, it has a lot of ways to create units that generate extra hits/wounds to be anti horde, it has lots of options for haywire. It has lots of options for ap2/ap3 weapons.

One of the units basic weapons is 30" ap 4 precision shots. The Other is s3 but 6s auto wound anything and cause 2 wounds. So far all the things are quite inexpensive pointswise.

The 55pt walker has a gun that is twin linked 48" s7 ap4 2 shots and fires Snap shots (overwatch and against flyers) at BS2 instead of 1. an unit of 4 of these is 220pts. It puts out 8 shots, against flyers it will score on average 4 str7 hits a turn of shooting. As a standalone unit this is one of the best, if not best, anti air units that is ground based in the game- and it doesn't cost much.

The Skittarri have the ability to counter a pentyrant list rather easily, and not be really hurt for doing so, they can counter knights, hordes, just about anything depending on how they are built. They are a very powerful shooting army, but unlike tau can put up a fight in assault.

I actually see them being one of the new top tier armies when allied with a CAD of any astartes to pick up transports. many of the units can get 2 haywire weapons per 5 models, and the character can get haywire pistol/haywire melee weapons + drop pod= profit.

Of course I would wait to see if they have transport options, of if ad mech brings any other transport options.

blaktoof wrote:
and it doesn't cost much.

Tell that to the wallet

But yeah what will make or break this army is the transport. though we have quite a LOT of options so long as they are BBBFFs with the rest of the imperium.

 Desubot wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
and it doesn't cost much.

Tell that to the wallet

But yeah what will make or break this army is the transport. though we have quite a LOT of options so long as they are BBBFFs with the rest of the imperium.

yeah sorry I think the army will be top tier, but do not plan on buying any of it other than the e-codex. So was not thinking about the wallet.

The competitive builds from this list with meta counters will need ballistii walkers for anti FMC/flyer and those are not inexpen$ive. Like mek guns, they cost more in most currencies than their points.

LordBlades wrote:

Just you wait until new Tau codex comes with a Riptide strapped to the chest of a bigger battlesuit :p

LOL

C'mon GW, make it happen!

Murrdox wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

Just you wait until new Tau codex comes with a Riptide strapped to the chest of a bigger battlesuit :p

LOL

C'mon GW, make it happen!

Im waiting for the formation where you take 5 riptides that suddenly transforms into voltron

"And I'll form the head"

 Egregious wrote:
When I saw the skitarii, an image popped immediately into my head:

Spoiler:

Funny, I thought the pilot reminded me more of,

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Funny, I thought the pilot reminded me more of,
*Stupid Friggin South Park Picture. Deleted for all our sake.*

It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time someone put that damn picture in reference and it wasn't funny when you did it as the twelfth person. If a joke is obvious, don't make the joke. It has been done before and it's just not funny.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Funny, I thought the pilot reminded me more of,
*Stupid Friggin South Park Picture. Deleted for all our sake.*

It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time someone put that damn picture in reference and it wasn't funny when you did it as the twelfth person. If a joke is obvious, don't make the joke. It has been done before and it's just not funny.

Woooooow you must have a lot of friends...





Anyway returning to topic: I think people are seriously underestimating the utility of those fast walkers for Maelstrom missions. You can't discount the utility of really speedy walkers that are pretty much immune to most normal infantry fire.

I think all the walkers the skitt have access to are pretty amazing. They make my killa kans look like oscar the grouch in a garbage can and cost less.

They are HP2 and AV11 and yes they can get blown the f--- up, but they are cheap. You can get 3-4 of them for the cost of most vehicles. As a squadron their coherency is 4" so blasts aren't going to hit more than one most likely. Yeah someone can blow most of their army alpha striking your walkers, and they may kill many of them, but two units of four walkers is a whopping total of ~420pts. There is a good chance you can get cover for them, and the dragoon even comes with built in 5+ cover. I wouldnt bother upgrading ballista, and the dragoon I would just take a few with phosphor serpenta and keep the rest with tasers (4 WS4 S8 attacks on the charge at I6 and any 6s to hit cause 2 more hits? and if the phosphors wounded or glanced anything I can reroll charge distance and it charges 2d6+3 ? yes pls) if there is a doctrine imperative that gives them rending, armorbane, rerolls to hit, anything ontop of that- it would just be ridiculous. An unit of 4, with 2 stock and 2 with serpenta phosphor for 200pts. On the charge they will have 16 attacks, odds are you will roll 2-3 6s for 4-6 more hits. So looking at on average versus a vehicle with no WS causing 15-17 s8 hits. Sounds pretty good to me.

Just for giggles lets double the amount of dragoons and consider 1 knight as the target. If they charge =32 attacks, 16 hits of which 2-3 will be 6s so 20-22 s8 hits on a knight. SO even if for some reason all the haywire you could possibly take isn't enough to wreck a knight two squads of 4 dragoons charging a knight (9" move + 2d6+3" charge [as fast as a knight can charge something btw]) will cause on average 20-22 hits. Lets just say 21, and guess what, 1/3rd of those will hurt AV13 so you just did 9 hp on average charging a knight at I6 and the knight doesn't get to strike back. Of course Skittari will probably be better haywire knights down, but having some units that are able to completely wreck a knight in 1 charge before the knight strikes on an average roll nearby your units will make a knight think twice about advancing on you.

The average squad of melta-sternguard is 255pts with drop pod. Two of those [510pts] dropping in on 8 walkers as an 'alpha strike' would not kill all 8 on average[total 10 melta shots, 7 hits, 5 will roll a 3+ to have an effect will most likely lose 2-3 walkers if no covers saves 1,2 if 5+ cover], and will probably die horribly next round. Smoke on that while you consider your options for killing your opponents alpha strike with your vanguard/rangers and remaining walkers+ friends.

The dragoons I think are going to be great in lists ($$$ cost aside). AV 11 is actually a sweet spot as makes them immune to almost all small arms fire and requires your opponent to use dedicated anti-tank which is likley overkill. For their point cost this is a great value on the field. In combat those str.8 lances will annihilate vehicles and are super quick flankers.

Now imagine them running cover for Penitent Engines...

blaktoof wrote:
They make my killa kans look like oscar the grouch in a garbage can and cost less.

Let's put it this way. Killa kanz are hard to not be made look like garbage for their point cost.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent.

Any less survivable than a landspeeder for similar points?

Yes, the land speeder gets a jink save. How many land speeders have you seen on top tables at GTs? I can count them on one hand.

 Toofast wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent.

Any less survivable than a landspeeder for similar points?

Yes, the land speeder gets a jink save. How many land speeders have you seen on top tables at GTs? I can count them on one hand.

And the meleestrider has a permanent 5+ cover save without needing to jink. your point?

I am sick of people coming with statements it dies therefor its useless".

EVERYTHING dies. and when something is so damn CHEAP you don't even care it dies.

The striders are decent. not WS OP that will win turnies by themselves, but good enough to be noteworthy, and be an option of what to field.

45-55 point models need not be indestructible, they need to take more effort to kill than 3-4 handful of marines, and they do. they also provide better firepower/punch. then what's the damn problem?

Dreads take more effort to kill than the equivalent points in tac marines and can put out as much firepower and they're so awful that nobody fields them any more.

How Ironstrider compares to Eldar War Walker? Not bad IMO.

 Toofast wrote:
Dreads take more effort to kill than the equivalent points in tac marines and can put out as much firepower and they're so awful that nobody fields them any more.

Well you ARE comparing a bad unit with a even worse unit.

What I would like to discuss here is the two infantry squads, Vanguards and Rangers, what their most advantageous loadouts are and what actual role they are best at fulfilling on the battlefield. How does the Skitarii fit into an overall plan for victory in a Maelstrom or Eternal War objective game? How should they be used, and do other units simply fill this role better than the Skitarii?

For Rangers, I think the loadout is quite obvious. The firepower that 3 Arc Rifles put out at RF range means 6 haywire shots at BS4. Can take an Arc pistol on the sergeant as well for an extra one. This unit will do well in a rent-a-drop pod.

For the Vanquard I think no special weapons might actually be what the doctor ordered, as the Rad carbines may be their best option. 2 auto-wounds on a 6 is very good. But really what do you actually do with these guys? Where on the battlefield do they go? Do they hide, sit on an objective, or do they need a transport to move up the battlefield?

Thoughts?

 Toofast wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent.

Any less survivable than a landspeeder for similar points?

Yes, the land speeder gets a jink save. How many land speeders have you seen on top tables at GTs? I can count them on one hand.

I don't play tournaments so I wouldn't know, fair enough if you're more keyed into that scene. The walker just doesn't seem like bad value compared to vehicles or equivalent value in the codexes....codices...or whatever the plural of that word is.

I haven't figured that out yet either...

At 1740 you get

6x 10 skitarii with 3 arc rifles
3x 3 Dragoons
3x 3 iron striders

I wouldn't say that's a terrible army, especially with 18 haywire shots at 30" or 36 shots at 18" coming from the infantry you are likely to ignore.

Also depends on the orders, the HQs and the Elites, but its not looking too bad. Probably wont be top tier but it'll screw with some people

These special weapons are so strangely priced; the arc rifle is really good and it is cheapest of them. I really like hove the arquebus looks, but I have hard time justifying the cost, even on a backfield objective camper squad.

 Crimson wrote:
These special weapons are so strangely priced; the arc rifle is really good and it is cheapest of them. I really like hove the arquebus looks, but I have hard time justifying the cost, even on a backfield objective camper squad.

it's pretty short ranged though so I imagine units with Arc rifles will soak up a lot of fire getting into range

blaktoof wrote:


One of the units basic weapons is 30" ap 4 precision shots. The Other is s3 but 6s auto wound anything and cause 2 wounds. So far all the things are quite inexpensive pointswise.

Could those rad skitarii actually be the nasty ones?

9ppm, BS4, A3 and any 6 to wound causes 2 wounds.
Compare that to Guardsmen, massed lasgun fire.
The skitarii are getting 3 times as many shots when outside rapidfire range. Against T4 they are generating 50% more wounds per hit. They are BS4 so they are hitting more often. They do cost nearly double, but it isnt bad.

10 of them naked will put 10 wounds on anything T4 and 6.6 wounds on anything T5 or above before saves.

The same points of guardsmen are only putting out 3.3 wounds against T4 and 1.6 against T5, doubled if in rapid fire range.

Maybe it's just theory hammer, maybe T3, 4+ FNP6+ will be wiped off the board before it ever gets near anything, but it doesnt look bad.


Coincidentally, they are also pretty good at putting wounds on Wraithknights, if they get close. Certainly far better than guardsmen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
These special weapons are so strangely priced; the arc rifle is really good and it is cheapest of them. I really like hove the arquebus looks, but I have hard time justifying the cost, even on a backfield objective camper squad.

The arquebus is too expensive. Yay it's an AP3 sniper rifle with huge range and armor bane. Not worth it when it limits the squad and costs a ton.
The plasma beasty is a plasma beast. 2 of these guys will put out more shots than 3 guys with plasma guns at 6" further out. Still probably should have been 25 points rather than 30.
The Phosphor weapons are silly. You wont hit and wound that often with them, so you wont get the cover save bonus. They are expensive and limited in where they can go.
The arc weapons are AWESOME. 24" haywire just like the DE HWB, except you get str6 and can double tap. Only 50% more than a melta gun.

In short, everyone will go for Arc weapons.

A triple plasma culiver squad will be worth it if there is a decently cheap way to give them PE or Twin-Linked. My thoughts are perhaps stuffing them and a divination Inquisitor in a Valkyrie (12 man transport cap.) and drop them next to a unit. Problem is that flier is going to have a lot of points riding inside of it.

 Exergy wrote:
The arc weapons are AWESOME. 24" haywire just like the DE HWB, except you get str6 and can double tap. Only 50% more than a melta gun.

In short, everyone will go for Arc weapons.

I agree. The Haywire is crazy good and not over costed.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
These special weapons are so strangely priced; the arc rifle is really good and it is cheapest of them. I really like hove the arquebus looks, but I have hard time justifying the cost, even on a backfield objective camper squad.

it's pretty short ranged though so I imagine units with Arc rifles will soak up a lot of fire getting into range

30" isn't that short of range. They all have relentless so every arc rifle has a 30" threat range. That's more than enough.

foto69man wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
I'm curious how well Skitarii would work allied with a Taghmata Omnissiah or a Legio Cybernetica. I've been thinking of building a Mechanicum army for awhile now, but mostly the cost has held me at bay so far.

Looking this over though, I don't think it would work very well either as fluff or not. Some of the rules are a little bit synergistic but for the most part they use completely different equipment and special rules. Also just from a fluff perspective I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense? I've read the Forgeworld books regarding the Mechanicum, but I don't know a lot about the Skitarii.

Unless you house rule it, you can't ally 30k Mechanicum and 40k Adeptus Mechanicus. And you really wouldn't need to as the 30k Mechanicum is easily good enough on its own.

Let's be honest, as soon as FW gets a bit further into the Horus Heresy and covers the war on Mars, they will probably do an Imperial Armor book to allow many of those units into 40k.

 aka_mythos wrote:

foto69man wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
I'm curious how well Skitarii would work allied with a Taghmata Omnissiah or a Legio Cybernetica. I've been thinking of building a Mechanicum army for awhile now, but mostly the cost has held me at bay so far.

Looking this over though, I don't think it would work very well either as fluff or not. Some of the rules are a little bit synergistic but for the most part they use completely different equipment and special rules. Also just from a fluff perspective I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense? I've read the Forgeworld books regarding the Mechanicum, but I don't know a lot about the Skitarii.

Unless you house rule it, you can't ally 30k Mechanicum and 40k Adeptus Mechanicus. And you really wouldn't need to as the 30k Mechanicum is easily good enough on its own.

Let's be honest, as soon as FW gets a bit further into the Horus Heresy and covers the war on Mars, they will probably do an Imperial Armor book to allow many of those units into 40k.

Good call I think. I hadn't considered that possibility.

The other thing to consider... FW is covering Dark Mechanicum in their Horus Heresy series and given the unlikelyness that GW will do Dark Mechanicum in 40k such an Imperial Armor book is probably the best bet for Dark Mechanicum in 40k.

The arquebus is too expensive. Yay it's an AP3 sniper rifle with huge range and armor bane. Not worth it when it limits the squad and costs a ton.

how does it limit the squad? remember they're relentless it can fire on the move

BrianDavion wrote:

The arquebus is too expensive. Yay it's an AP3 sniper rifle with huge range and armor bane. Not worth it when it limits the squad and costs a ton.

how does it limit the squad? remember they're relentless it can fire on the move

It limits them because it's targets will be different. They dont have split fire.

 Exergy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

The arquebus is too expensive. Yay it's an AP3 sniper rifle with huge range and armor bane. Not worth it when it limits the squad and costs a ton.

how does it limit the squad? remember they're relentless it can fire on the move

It limits them because it's targets will be different. They dont have split fire.

That we know of right now.

Doctrina Imperatives still have to be revealed as to what they are.

The same could be said of melta and plasma guns in infantry squads, or basically any heavy weapon. Doesn't stop you seeing them.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The same could be said of melta and plasma guns in infantry squads, or basically any heavy weapon. Doesn't stop you seeing them.

with plasma, you are adding anti infantry to a squad with anti infantry weapons. Melta are cheap things to open tanks, you are going to use them every turn of the game, but they serve a well defined purpose. I suppose you could the snipers on a squad of the 30" precision shot guys and try to snipe heavy weapons guys or sergents. Still its a lot of points.

The sniper rifle might not be optimal in this squad, but it has such a high range you'll almost always have something you can shoot at. A back field squad or squad on the wrong end of the table aren't effectively out of the game just because of it.

I think some of my Skitarii will get the sniper rifles for the simple reason that the kit comes only with one arc rifle. Oh well, at least they will look cool.

You know what I just realized?

The infantry kit doesn't come with the "long" base for the Sniper-rifle. According to the product page be just get 10 25mm bases.

Boo... Even just for aesthetics I wanted to build a few of those.

 Exergy wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The same could be said of melta and plasma guns in infantry squads, or basically any heavy weapon. Doesn't stop you seeing them.

with plasma, you are adding anti infantry to a squad with anti infantry weapons. Melta are cheap things to open tanks, you are going to use them every turn of the game, but they serve a well defined purpose. I suppose you could the snipers on a squad of the 30" precision shot guys and try to snipe heavy weapons guys or sergents. Still its a lot of points.

yeash it's a lot of points and I doubt you'll see a lotta em, but they'll definatly fit in with rangers. I can't see anyone bothering with them on vanguards unless they wanna give the squad some ability to lay down fire while they close.

Rangers feel a little underwhelming. I LOVE their look much more than Vanguard, but more points for Move-Through-Cover, and longer ranged, but generally less wound-creating guns almost feels like a flat down-grade.

The designer in me would much rather ditch move-through-cover but add Scout/Infiltrate.

I'm kind of curious and potentially running an army of maxed out Dragoons and Iron Striders. love the idea of a super fast army that actually can hurt on the charge (S8) with several Ironstrider gun platforms for providing fire support.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Rangers feel a little underwhelming. I LOVE their look much more than Vanguard, but more points for Move-Through-Cover, and longer ranged, but generally less wound-creating guns almost feels like a flat down-grade.

The designer in me would much rather ditch move-through-cover but add Scout/Infiltrate.

I dunno, I think rangers are intended to be the back end units. It'd be intreasting to see how Skiratii rangers stack us vs fire warriors.

my gut feeling is Rangers would come out on top.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Rangers feel a little underwhelming. I LOVE their look much more than Vanguard, but more points for Move-Through-Cover, and longer ranged, but generally less wound-creating guns almost feels like a flat down-grade.

The designer in me would much rather ditch move-through-cover but add Scout/Infiltrate.

I'm the opposite actually XD I love the looks and rules of the ranges much more. high rate of precision shots sounds like a dream come true

 BoomWolf wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Rangers feel a little underwhelming. I LOVE their look much more than Vanguard, but more points for Move-Through-Cover, and longer ranged, but generally less wound-creating guns almost feels like a flat down-grade.

The designer in me would much rather ditch move-through-cover but add Scout/Infiltrate.

I'm the opposite actually XD I love the looks and rules of the ranges much more. high rate of precision shots sounds like a dream come true

But is it a high rate of shots? It's only Rapid Fire at 15', meaning for LESS points, at 18' Vanguards get significantly MORE shots, and more over-all wounds between the shots and Rad special rule. Plus, Vanguard range synergizes better with the likely common Arc Rifles/Rapid Fire Haywire.

Like I said, I LOVE how Rangers look, but I think Vanguard may just outright be "better" if you're being a hardcore number cruncher.

 Crimson wrote:
I think some of my Skitarii will get the sniper rifles for the simple reason that the kit comes only with one arc rifle. Oh well, at least they will look cool.

It only comes with one sniper rifle too. So if you buy 3 kits you can have 1 squad of rangers with 3 sniper rifles, 1 squad of vanguard with plasma, and 1 squad of vanguard with arc rifles


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Rangers feel a little underwhelming. I LOVE their look much more than Vanguard, but more points for Move-Through-Cover, and longer ranged, but generally less wound-creating guns almost feels like a flat down-grade.

The designer in me would much rather ditch move-through-cover but add Scout/Infiltrate.

I dunno, I think rangers are intended to be the back end units. It'd be intreasting to see how Skiratii rangers stack us vs fire warriors.

my gut feeling is Rangers would come out on top.

Im not so sure. Unsupported the rangers are certainly more versitile, with precision shots and all. Hitting on 3s wounding on 3s is better than hitting on 4s wounding on 2s. The rangers cost more though right...
Nevermind, forgot to factor in the FNP. It would be enough to push them over the top in an unsurpoted dueloff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


But is it a high rate of shots? It's only Rapid Fire at 15', meaning for LESS points, at 18' Vanguards get significantly MORE shots, and more over-all wounds between the shots and Rad special rule. Plus, Vanguard range synergizes better with the likely common Arc Rifles/Rapid Fire Haywire.

Like I said, I LOVE how Rangers look, but I think Vanguard may just outright be "better" if you're being a hardcore number cruncher.

I agree. I think the Vanguard are the mainstay of the army from what we have seen so far. They put out a ton of wounds at 18" less. I cant imagine giving the enemy -1 T will win them many assaults, but it wont hurt them in assault either.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
You know what I just realized?

The infantry kit doesn't come with the "long" base for the Sniper-rifle. According to the product page be just get 10 25mm bases.

Boo... Even just for aesthetics I wanted to build a few of those.

I think they simply forgot to add it to the description, I would bet anything that these kits come with one, otherwise it'd be a strange thing to include in all your promotional materials for a brand new release.

Well, the giving away -1 T in assaults is just gravy, and apparently "free" as point-allowances go.

Plus it makes me smirk to think of my generic bolt-pistol/ccw Thunderwolves wounding MEQs on 2's if my inevitable ally Vanguards assault first. :-p

Im not so sure. Unsupported the rangers are certainly more versitile, with precision shots and all. Hitting on 3s wounding on 3s is better than hitting on 4s wounding on 2s. The rangers cost more though right...
Nevermind, forgot to factor in the FNP. It would be enough to push them over the top in an unsurpoted dueloff.

also Pulse carbines are AP 5, galvaic rifles are AP 4. meaning the firewarriors wouldn't ignore the Rangers armor but the rangers would ignore theirs.

BrianDavion wrote:

Im not so sure. Unsupported the rangers are certainly more versitile, with precision shots and all. Hitting on 3s wounding on 3s is better than hitting on 4s wounding on 2s. The rangers cost more though right...
Nevermind, forgot to factor in the FNP. It would be enough to push them over the top in an unsurpoted dueloff.

also Pulse carbines are AP 5, galvaic rifles are AP 4. meaning the firewarriors wouldn't ignore the Rangers armor but the rangers would ignore theirs.

Ahh
I thought pulse were AP4, probably because I dont know Tau to well and just always assumed they had rapid fire heavy bolters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Well, the giving away -1 T in assaults is just gravy, and apparently "free" as point-allowances go.

Plus it makes me smirk to think of my generic bolt-pistol/ccw Thunderwolves wounding MEQs on 2's if my inevitable ally Vanguards assault first. :-p

Or ID lots of stuff.

 Exergy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Im not so sure. Unsupported the rangers are certainly more versitile, with precision shots and all. Hitting on 3s wounding on 3s is better than hitting on 4s wounding on 2s. The rangers cost more though right...
Nevermind, forgot to factor in the FNP. It would be enough to push them over the top in an unsurpoted dueloff.

also Pulse carbines are AP 5, galvaic rifles are AP 4. meaning the firewarriors wouldn't ignore the Rangers armor but the rangers would ignore theirs.

Ahh
I thought pulse were AP4, probably because I dont know Tau to well and just always assumed they had rapid fire heavy bolters.

I don't know em too well eaither and am just going by the weapons listing in the old 6th ed book. it could, I suppose, be in error

 Toofast wrote:
Dreads take more effort to kill than the equivalent points in tac marines and can put out as much firepower and they're so awful that nobody fields them any more.

Helbrutes are doing great if you support them. But that's mostly due to formations.

Anywayz, mellee ostriches look really really good ruleswise (although, i think they're modelled odd for admech). Walkers get real benefits from getting squadronned and this little guys are very fast and choppy. Support them with shrowded and they have 3+ cover in the open. And they'll wreck most things on the charge.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Rangers feel a little underwhelming. I LOVE their look much more than Vanguard, but more points for Move-Through-Cover, and longer ranged, but generally less wound-creating guns almost feels like a flat down-grade.

The designer in me would much rather ditch move-through-cover but add Scout/Infiltrate.

I'm the opposite actually XD I love the looks and rules of the ranges much more. high rate of precision shots sounds like a dream come true

But is it a high rate of shots? It's only Rapid Fire at 15', meaning for LESS points, at 18' Vanguards get significantly MORE shots, and more over-all wounds between the shots and Rad special rule. Plus, Vanguard range synergizes better with the likely common Arc Rifles/Rapid Fire Haywire.

Like I said, I LOVE how Rangers look, but I think Vanguard may just outright be "better" if you're being a hardcore number cruncher.

Vanguard do not precision, so you cant take out buffers/hidden weapons.

And as my experiance with pulse carbines tells me, 18" is awefully close for a squishy shooty unit.

From the few models/units we know now the haywire is the most powerfull aspect IMO.
And i find it typical, but also quite logical, that mechanicus has the best anti-mechanic weaponry.

And if that is in any way possible, i want some of these to deal with Wave Serpents in tournaments.

I will buy a few of the models anyway, i like them.
But i will go for the whole army (like i do with Harlequins), this will become a detachment.

If they get some sort of fast or outflanking transport, assaulting WS with them might be a viable tactic.

How do you guys think the skitarii rangers compare to other ranger units, sm scouts, eldar, ratlings etc?

 Ratius wrote:
How do you guys think the skitarii rangers compare to other ranger units, sm scouts, eldar, ratlings etc?

Well considering they are relentless and so can move and shoot full range, can have a variety of powerful weapons, can double tap at half range, and generally will be able to threaten quite a bit of the board due to cover reducing shots and such, and it's harder to snipe the Alpha out due to him being W2...Yeah no real contest.

Doesn't hurt that ratlings are terrible, rangers are just bad compared to more wave serpents, and scouts are mostly just used as backfield objective settlers if your not using Tac,

The only issue is your not wounding bigger models on a 4+ and have a chance at rending.

I'm not sure I'd really compare rangers to a unit like SM scouts anyway.

Fair enough, I havent read their rules so was just pondering.

 Ratius wrote:
How do you guys think the skitarii rangers compare to other ranger units, sm scouts, eldar, ratlings etc?

most of those units are really any good. Perhaps Deathmarks?

Had a thought about Skittari. Will the new army mean an increase in Power Maul useage? Seems a power maul is ideally set up against Skitarii. It wounds everything on 2s, it denies all skitarii armor saves, and it will ID any skitarii model, denying them FNP.

Look at the new infilatrators and ruststalkers. How would they do charging into a unit armed with power mauls? Even just 1 power maul will likely kill 2 very expensive models.

 Exergy wrote:
Had a thought about Skittari. Will the new army mean an increase in Power Maul useage? Seems a power maul is ideally set up against Skitarii. It wounds everything on 2s, it denies all skitarii armor saves, and it will ID any skitarii model, denying them FNP.

Look at the new infilatrators and ruststalkers. How would they do charging into a unit armed with power mauls? Even just 1 power maul will likely kill 2 very expensive models.

Or just shoot it with auto cannons

 Desubot wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Had a thought about Skittari. Will the new army mean an increase in Power Maul useage? Seems a power maul is ideally set up against Skitarii. It wounds everything on 2s, it denies all skitarii armor saves, and it will ID any skitarii model, denying them FNP.

Look at the new infilatrators and ruststalkers. How would they do charging into a unit armed with power mauls? Even just 1 power maul will likely kill 2 very expensive models.

Or just shoot it with auto cannons

some armies have easier access to power mauls then autocannons


that said it depends on how many people pick up the new army and run it.

I picked up 4 boxes of their basic troops. Was thinking of running 4x 5 man ranger squads with 2 arc rifles each (by casting what I need) but I am not sure what to make the 2 10 man squads. I really like the basic cancer gun. Should i go 9, and the squad leader with some meelee backup. I also ordered 2 of their elite troops, and plan to get at least 3 spider tanks, because spider tanks. Where would you go next for a competative meta.

I shall be going down the road of spider tank swarms at 90 points a pop with some basic troop hordes. Possibly ally with inquisition with even more hordes of guys and vehicles.

It's going to be my expression on MSU since it's very much skyfire capable list to take on those penta flyrants. Also should have enough targets to make it really hard for wraith spam to chew through in any decent amount of time.

I don't do a whole lot of competitive stuff, but I really think that the Autocannon Balistarii shouldn't be counted out, especially in larger squadrons. Yes, it's expensive, but with 4-6 of those things in a squadron, you can put some real Precision-shot pressure on special weapons and characters, and still be able to shoot down plenty of light vehicles.

The army has a lot of great synergy on it's own, but it's obviously made to be an allied force. Make your Warlord something more durable in your ally, and use the Skitarii to bring that juicy anti-air, cheap troops, and counter-assault units that other IoM forces just plainly lack.

drbored wrote:
I don't do a whole lot of competitive stuff, but I really think that the Autocannon Balistarii shouldn't be counted out, especially in larger squadrons. Yes, it's expensive, but with 4-6 of those things in a squadron, you can put some real Precision-shot pressure on special weapons and characters, and still be able to shoot down plenty of light vehicles.

The army has a lot of great synergy on it's own, but it's obviously made to be an allied force. Make your Warlord something more durable in your ally, and use the Skitarii to bring that juicy anti-air, cheap troops, and counter-assault units that other IoM forces just plainly lack.

I dunno some of those warlord traits are pretty tastey, and are they really any worse for durability then say a IG CCS?

I'm not sure how worthwhile a discussion on the Skitarii codex is when I believe the vast majority of AdMech players will probably want to use the full codex instead of this narrower version.

Well, I think Skitarii should be used as gap fillers aka allies, not as main force.
They are simply not versatile enough.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I'm not sure how worthwhile a discussion on the Skitarii codex is when I believe the vast majority of AdMech players will probably want to use the full codex instead of this narrower version.

which might come out in 2 months or 2 years. Until we know when the larger admech release is, Skitarii is what we have.

Also the full admech codex wont give everything scout, might not give everything the same doctrine imperitives, and might have additional rules we dont know about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sudojoe wrote:
I shall be going down the road of spider tank swarms at 90 points a pop with some basic troop hordes.

Really need to see how much the neutron laser costs to determine if these guys are viable. The AA option is great, but I think it's best to have only 1 of the three outfitted for AA. Unless you know you are facing flyrants, serpent spam, DE, or cron air.

Warlord Trait number 6 - warlord and unit fire BS 4. Vanguard and their sergeant equivalent being warlord, that would be like 15 shots possible hitting on 3+! That would be a nasty spring trap on unexpected nid/equivalent players as they charge their standard units thinking they could kill your warlord and you basic unit, what a nope that would be in their face.

 Exergy wrote:


which might come out in 2 months or 2 years. Until we know when the larger admech release is, Skitarii is what we have.

Also the full admech codex wont give everything scout, might not give everything the same doctrine imperitives, and might have additional rules we dont know about.

We know from the leaked white dwarf pics that the full codex will be out in the next couple of weeks. This was already reported by every trustworthy rumor source and now it has been verified and discussed at length in the rumors forum.

I must have missed the pics as I haven't seen them in the rumor thread... then again at the rate posts are added to it that isn't hard.

Lords of War have said full codex release in May, so at least 3/4 weeks but more likely 6/7.

So still a fair way out (by current GW standards) if they are correct.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I must have missed the pics as I haven't seen them in the rumor thread... then again at the rate posts are added to it that isn't hard.

Lords of War have said full codex release in May, so at least 3/4 weeks but more likely 6/7.

So still a fair way out (by current GW standards) if they are correct.

This follows GWs present release pattern; we didn't get the Skitarii codex until the third week of releases. So three more weeks and we have the other half of the AdMech codex units and the codex.