You're funny if you think they are crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to LVO. I'll play you there.

 Julnlecs wrote:
You're funny if you think they are crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to LVO. I'll play you there.

One hemlock will take out a wraithnight a turn lol what's a wraithnight going to do against bikes.? Kill maybe 2 a turn lol sure there great against tanks, until a grav unit shoots you and there goes 295pts down the crapper, for those 295pts I rather take 5 D-cannon platforms

Dman137 wrote:

 Julnlecs wrote:
You're funny if you think they are crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to LVO. I'll play you there.

One hemlock will take out a wraithnight a turn lol what's a wraithnight going to do against bikes.? Kill maybe 2 a turn lol sure there great against tanks, until a grav unit shoots you and there goes 295pts down the crapper, for those 295pts I rather take 5 D-cannon platforms

No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

I think he does believe that, yes.

And I wonder why Eldar players get a bad rap...

One Hemlock will never take out a Wraithknight by itself in a single turn.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

I think he does believe that, yes.

And I wonder why Eldar players get a bad rap...

Eldar players get a bad rep because everyone complains to much about the dex. Every event I go to everyone always cries about how op eldar is and that it shouldn't be allowed, it should be nerfed, it needs to be comped blah blah blah everyone just just needs to chill and just learn how to beat it. Yes eldar is strong, but so is SM, tau, necrons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
One Hemlock will never take out a Wraithknight by itself in a single turn.

Let's see, I hit you with 2 templates that both do D3 wounds so I can do 6 wounds in 1 go. That's a dead knight.

Dman137 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

I think he does believe that, yes.

And I wonder why Eldar players get a bad rap...

Eldar players get a bad rep because everyone complains to much about the dex. Every event I go to everyone always cries about how op eldar is and that it shouldn't be allowed, it should be nerfed, it needs to be comped blah blah blah everyone just just needs to chill and just learn how to beat it. Yes eldar is strong, but so is SM, tau, necrons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
One Hemlock will never take out a Wraithknight by itself in a single turn.

Let's see, I hit you with 2 templates that both do D3 wounds so I can do 6 wounds in 1 go. That's a dead knight.

You're assuming you're going to roll 3 damage every time.

That's assuming you don't scatter off, roll a 3 for Destroyer and then rolling a 3 for D3.

Statisically that's only ~43%, so the odd's aren't in your favour. Then you take into account that a competant player has a Wraithknight's toe in ruins and that's only ~21%.

So I was wrong (after realizing it has two D-Scythes and not one), yes, you can kill a Wraithknight a turn, but it's unlikely.

 Frozocrone wrote:
That's assuming you don't scatter off, roll a 3 for Destroyer and then rolling a 3 for D3.

Statisically that's only ~43%, so the odd's aren't in your favour. Then you take into account that a competant player has a Wraithknight's toe in ruins and that's only ~21%.

So I was wrong (after realizing it has two D-Scythes and not one), yes, you can kill a Wraithknight a turn, but it's unlikely.

I no it's unlikely, but it could happen. But I still think 295pts is better spent on other units in the book, like 3 units of 5 spiders would be amazing

He's also forgetting most players run the Shield and Sword Wraithknight. In which case it would get a 5++. Then most players will Fortune or Invis the wraithknight in cover as well. But since he tables all of his opponents he must not run into those players. Thus him thinking Wraithknights are crap.

 Julnlecs wrote:
He's also forgetting most players run the Shield and Sword Wraithknight. In which case it would get a 5++. Then most players will Fortune or Invis the wraithknight in cover as well. But since he tables all of his opponents he must not run into those players. Thus him thinking Wraithknights are crap.

Lmao no one runs the sword knight and if they do they don't win very much, also your hoping you get 2 spells, what happens when you don't.? Wraithnights are not as good as you think, what happens when a skyhammer force comes down and kills 2 knights in one go.. Oh that's right you all think the the Knight is amazing lmao

Dman137 wrote:

 Julnlecs wrote:
He's also forgetting most players run the Shield and Sword Wraithknight. In which case it would get a 5++. Then most players will Fortune or Invis the wraithknight in cover as well. But since he tables all of his opponents he must not run into those players. Thus him thinking Wraithknights are crap.

Lmao no one runs the sword knight and if they do they don't win very much, also your hoping you get 2 spells, what happens when you don't.? Wraithnights are not as good as you think, what happens when a skyhammer force comes down and kills 2 knights in one go.. Oh that's right you all think the the Knight is amazing lmao

Man, you sure have a lot of "Well if they do this, I'll do this" speeches lined up. This is a game with a lot of dice rolling. It's easy to say 'well this COULD happen'. Yep, but it also could NOT happen. Just because something can or can't doesn't mean it is or isn't good. My Boyz squad COULD take down various monstrous creatures. It doesn't mean it's GOING to happen or happen RELIABLY. And it also doesn't mean my Boyz are top tier just because they have the POTENTIAL to do things. But it doesn't make them bottom tier for not being able to do a specific thing either.

How does the sky hammer take out two knights in one turn? ??

Thyhadras wrote:
How does the sky hammer take out two knights in one turn? ??

I would have to theorize the potential for Grav getting right up in their face right away, which is basically wraithknights solid counter. Not that that is any different than before. But according to his logic, if there is a potential counter for something, then it's not worth running. At least, that is the gist of what I've been reading.

Melevolence wrote:

Thyhadras wrote:
How does the sky hammer take out two knights in one turn? ??

I would have to theorize the potential for Grav getting right up in their face right away, which is basically wraithknights solid counter. Not that that is any different than before. But according to his logic, if there is a potential counter for something, then it's not worth running. At least, that is the gist of what I've been reading.

Well seeing as in SM got grav everywhere it's going to happen, and yeah it's a hard counter and people no that there going to see wraithnight sap what do you think there going to take lol pretty much every SM army has a pod with cents in it with a Libby. wraithnights were great until the new SM dex came out. 295pts is better spent somewhere else instead of dumping it in one unit that can get deleted in 1 turn.

Dman: forum-theoryhammer 40k is not actually a winnable game. If you want people to acknowledge the list, show some real evidence. Batreps and tourney results mainly. The more detailed the better.

However, please continue trying to convince other eldar players that wraithknights are bad. I would love to see less of them.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Dman: forum-theoryhammer 40k is not actually a winnable game. If you want people to acknowledge the list, show some real evidence. Batreps and tourney results mainly. The more detailed the better.

However, please continue trying to convince other eldar players that wraithknights are bad. I would love to see less of them.

Exactly. I can't even recall a single Eldar player use Wraithknight and 'bad' in the same sentence, unless it was 'x unit dies badly to Wraithknights' or something along those lines.

So let's look at a point comparison as we are looking at around 300+ points for that one dev squad with grav cannons. ..so the sky hammer is going to be a huge chunk of your army. Honestly I keep hearing how good sky hammer is but for the points it is terrible

niv-mizzet wrote:
Dman: forum-theoryhammer 40k is not actually a winnable game. If you want people to acknowledge the list, show some real evidence. Batreps and tourney results mainly. The more detailed the better.

However, please continue trying to convince other eldar players that wraithknights are bad. I would love to see less of them.

I plan on putting up some bat-reps after this up coming event, last event I wish I had takin some pics/videos my list walked tru every army (my 1500pt list, I've put that list up before for reference) the event was Astronomicon. Came in second for general (final table I have my opponent down to 2 models but he was still holding a objective I was holding one but failed 2 3+ saves and lost my objective, tho I found out after that my opponent cheated and I had no idea) that cost me 1st overall by 3 points.

As for the wraithnights I'm just trying to open people's eyes to the fact that there are way better options to take other then a wraithnight. But clearly the message isn't getting tru lol

It's because there isn't better options.

Dman137 wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Dman: forum-theoryhammer 40k is not actually a winnable game. If you want people to acknowledge the list, show some real evidence. Batreps and tourney results mainly. The more detailed the better.

However, please continue trying to convince other eldar players that wraithknights are bad. I would love to see less of them.

I plan on putting up some bat-reps after this up coming event, last event I wish I had takin some pics/videos my list walked tru every army (my 1500pt list, I've put that list up before for reference) the event was Astronomicon. Came in second for general (final table I have my opponent down to 2 models but he was still holding a objective I was holding one but failed 2 3+ saves and lost my objective, tho I found out after that my opponent cheated and I had no idea) that cost me 1st overall by 3 points.

As for the wraithnights I'm just trying to open people's eyes to the fact that there are way better options to take other then a wraithnight. But clearly the message isn't getting tru lol

Getting through*

But honestly, that's because there aren't many things in this game that can do all that the Wraithknight can do, while being as survivable as the Wraithknight is. That, and it being the only Gargantuan creature in strict GW published material for 'normal' 40k is also a huge argument in its favor. It's the only unit in the game right now that gets all those benefits. There's nothing in the game that's on the Wraithknight's level.

 Julnlecs wrote:
It's because there isn't better options.

For 295 points I can take 3 units of 5 warpspiders thy alone is already better lol for 315pts I can't make it a aspect host formation so now they are bs5 spiders. I'll take that over a knight anyday of the week

Come to LVO I'll smash this list with daemons.

I'll just avoid assassin and kill all the scat bikes and hemlock in one turn. Haha

this is a bad thread all around

Two hive fleet detachments for reroll on IB chart
Five dakka flyrants with egrubs
6 mucolids
Four mawlocs

60 str 6 twin linked shots on an FMC platform.
Four deep striking pie plates that most of the time with hit your units with two str 6 ap2 ignore cover pie plates starting on turn two. You can even null deploy with only six trash units with 2+ cover in ruins in every corner of the deployment zone.

 Masos wrote:
Come to LVO I'll smash this list with daemons.

I'll just avoid assassin and kill all the scat bikes and hemlock in one turn. Haha

Lol good luck with that, I'd castle in a corner with the whole army and have the assassin sit right in front, good luck getting close to me lmao

May I introduce you to my good friend, the Leman Russ Eradicator? S6 AP4 ignores cover large blast poops on jetbikes man. I still need to build a pair of them, but they are great against eldar and tau. They are also the cheapest russ variant, allowing for lots of upgrades like melta melta Lascannon sponsons. That and a platoon to screen it makes a lot of that list not so scary. the only thing I'm worried about is the hemlocks, and even those can be brought down with the insane AA that guard has. This list is by no means unbeatable.

Skribl wrote:
May I introduce you to my good friend, the Leman Russ Eradicator? S6 AP4 ignores cover large blast poops on jetbikes man. I still need to build a pair of them, but they are great against eldar and tau. They are also the cheapest russ variant, allowing for lots of upgrades like melta melta Lascannon sponsons. That and a platoon to screen it makes a lot of that list not so scary. the only thing I'm worried about is the hemlocks, and even those can be brought down with the insane AA that guard has. This list is by no means unbeatable.

May I introduce you to my armour save of 3+ on the bikes, so ignores cover really doesn't matter lol

Unbeatable? Nah. I'll beat you...

A better Farseer skyrunner: shard, stones


A better Autarch Skyrunner: lance,mask


A better 7 scatbikes
A better Warlock.

A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes

A better Hemlock

A better Hemlock

A better Culexus assassin

A better Aspect host formation
A better 6x swooping hawks /extarch
A better 5x spiders/ extarch
A better 5x spiders/ extarch

A better 1x heavy weapon platform (D-cannon)

A better 1x heavy weapon platform (D-cannon)




See... i can beat it.

hard counter..... have you met my sledge hammer? jks...

but no there are counters to it, you just seems to deploy X way and nulify it. which wont always work. i still think flyrant+mawloc spam would give it a good go. even tau to some degree would cause you trouble (if done right). mostly for you its a luck game.. you could roll back to back 1-2's all game and loose.

Wow! this is Abit silly guys...

It's a strong list, but again it will depend on the mission, terrain and enemy list.

Three heldrakes plus a chaos lord burning blade would own it. Throw in a Comms relay to make sure they come in. Hemlocks can't touch the drakes and they will guaranteed delete a bike unit per turn. The bikes aren't going to shoot them down

 Lord Corellia wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

6x swooping hawks /extarch
5x spiders/ extarch
5x spiders/ extarch

This here is all the proof I need of the op's vast and unrivaled knowledge of Eldar...

Thats extarded

Btothefnrock wrote:
Unbeatable? Nah. I'll beat you...

A better Farseer skyrunner: shard, stones


A better Autarch Skyrunner: lance,mask


A better 7 scatbikes
A better Warlock.

A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes
A better 3 scatbikes

A better Hemlock

A better Hemlock

A better Culexus assassin

A better Aspect host formation
A better 6x swooping hawks /extarch
A better 5x spiders/ extarch
A better 5x spiders/ extarch

A better 1x heavy weapon platform (D-cannon)

A better 1x heavy weapon platform (D-cannon)




See... i can beat it.

I was waiting to see this LOL

Flyrant
Flyrant
Flyrant
Flyrant
Flyrant
(1200)

Dakkafex
Dakkafex
(300)

Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte
(150)

Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
(45)

Mawloc
(140)

1835 points

Lictor shame is the list I've had the hardest time playing against/beating tho I've inly played against it twice. First game I got man handled lol second game I manhadle them so I'm 50/50 on it, but mawlocks are the bane to bikes for sure, flyrants don't scare me, mawlocks do tho lol especially when the lictors make them not scatter lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

raoiley wrote:
Three heldrakes plus a chaos lord burning blade would own it. Throw in a Comms relay to make sure they come in. Hemlocks can't touch the drakes and they will guaranteed delete a bike unit per turn. The bikes aren't going to shoot them down

Helldrakes are pretty annoying but I've delt with them pretty well, last game I played a guy that brought 2 drakes, 2 flying nurgle princes and a typhon lol it was a hard fight the game came down to who got first blood lol

I know it's something you probably won't see unless at tournamenets but Y'VARHA battlesuits would be super bad. Only a 6" torrent but you get two of them if you over charge. Both flamer shots have to be resolved against the same target but each of them could delete a bike unit per turn. Addtionally tetras and early warning override fire base support cadre. If you could get all of it into a list it would be hard for you to beat I think. Also they can go into swooping mode so could avoid those hemlocks. And they have a haywire gun which could be used against the Flyers. In general I think this unit would be good against your list, the only cavoit being that they are experimental rules, and all us tau players know what happened to the R'VARNA's rules when they became official so it's possible something lame could happen to these guys too.

That being said its only a strict counter to this list. Don't know how well it would do in tournaments. I unfortunately work all the time(the steel industry never sleeps) so playing every day or even once a week is difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The eldar have a sting codex, but it is by no means unbeatable. Generals make the list, not the other way around. Good luck in your tournaments. I root for Necrons always(my first army) so I won't be pulling for you, but not out of malice. Just out of love for my steel murder machines from the before time and the long long ago.

Epartalis wrote:
I know it's something you probably won't see unless at tournamenets but Y'VARHA battlesuits would be super bad. Only a 6" torrent but you get two of them if you over charge. Both flamer shots have to be resolved against the same target but each of them could delete a bike unit per turn. Addtionally tetras and early warning override fire base support cadre. If you could get all of it into a list it would be hard for you to beat I think. Also they can go into swooping mode so could avoid those hemlocks. And they have a haywire gun which could be used against the Flyers. In general I think this unit would be good against your list, the only cavoit being that they are experimental rules, and all us tau players know what happened to the R'VARNA's rules when they became official so it's possible something lame could happen to these guys too.

That being said its only a strict counter to this list. Don't know how well it would do in tournaments. I unfortunately work all the time(the steel industry never sleeps) so playing every day or even once a week is difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The eldar have a sting codex, but it is by no means unbeatable. Generals make the list, not the other way around. Good luck in your tournaments. I root for Necrons always(my first army) so I won't be pulling for you, but not out of malice. Just out of love for my steel murder machines from the before time and the long long ago.

A friend of mine is doing a list like that lol we were talking about it yesterday, we haven't played yet but I'm sure it would be a intersting match.
It's funny that you say your in the steel industry, I work for a company that only works with metals lol so necrons could be a possible army in the future, supper fast to paint haha

That list has lots of fire power for a Nid list but that could easily be swapped out for 4 mawlocs and a lictor or two to help deep strike as lictors may infiltrate or deep strike without scatter depending on who gets first turn etc and deployment. So lots of wounds high toughness majority can jink and is highly mobile, mucolids can also be very dangerous.

I work for Kloeckner Metals. I know we used to have a branch in Rosebud Michigan back when the company was Namasco. I believe that's as far north as we ever got, but we are an international company. If you ever need steel or any kind of metal for that matter give me a shout. We have branches all over the country and I have a great deal of contacts within the industry.

One the subject of 40k, please post batreps. I'm interested to how these kinds of lists do, and if you buddy runs his tau tell him to post. Would love to see some nicely painted yvarhs in action.

Dman137 wrote:
Lictor shame is the list I've had the hardest time playing against/beating tho I've inly played against it twice. First game I got man handled lol second game I manhadle them so I'm 50/50 on it, but mawlocks are the bane to bikes for sure, flyrants don't scare me, mawlocks do tho lol especially when the lictors make them not scatter lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

raoiley wrote:
Three heldrakes plus a chaos lord burning blade would own it. Throw in a Comms relay to make sure they come in. Hemlocks can't touch the drakes and they will guaranteed delete a bike unit per turn. The bikes aren't going to shoot them down

Helldrakes are pretty annoying but I've delt with them pretty well, last game I played a guy that brought 2 drakes, 2 flying nurgle princes and a typhon lol it was a hard fight the game came down to who got first blood lol

And lets be real, that second game was because I got careless and fried my Tyrants brain and made him kiss dirt just to go after a D cannon that had no bearing.

I think the 4 flyrant, death leaper, 2 lictors, 2 mucloids and 3 mawloc list would butt rush Scat spam.

my friend plays that same list. he is pretty good and useually kicks butt. i beat it with my thunderfire cannon artillery list

Dman137 wrote:

 Masos wrote:
Come to LVO I'll smash this list with daemons.

I'll just avoid assassin and kill all the scat bikes and hemlock in one turn. Haha

Lol good luck with that, I'd castle in a corner with the whole army and have the assassin sit right in front, good luck getting close to me lmao

Then would you lose as he grabbed all the objectives... FYI assassin in front will not help your cause. He can send in Grimoire hounds 20 strong, or even screamers, knock out assassin by poking him with a pillow, and then free cast to destroy your army, mean while on the other side of the board, nurglings, horrors, or whatever is camping/holding objectives, you leave your corner prior to assassin dead, and he buffs a unit and comes and kills you.

Is this thread for real? It is hysterical...

I'll throw my hat in the ring. This is a variation of a list I'll be playing in 2 weeks locally. Its been tailored from double RSR to single RSR double hosts. The original has more MSU and anti armour but the basic concept is the same, hate out a few matches at the expense of others and go underneath deathstars.

lhamaean

4 mandrakes
4 mandrakes
3 mandrakes

5 warriors, venom- 2 sc
5 warriors, venom- 2 sc
5 warriors, venom- 2 sc

raider, dc, ns
raider, dc, ns
raider, dc, ns
raider, dc, ns
raider, dc, ns
raider, dc, ns

ravager disi cannons, ns
ravager disi cannons, ns
ravager disi cannons, ns

Aspect Host x 2
3 dark reapers bs 5, exarch- starshots
3 dark reapers bs 5, exarch- starshots
3 dark reapers bs 5, exarch- starshots
3 dark reapers bs 5, exarch- starshots
3 dark reapers bs 5, exarch- starshots
3 dark reapers bs 5, exarch- starshots

Tsilber wrote:
Is this thread for real? It is hysterical...

And somewhat surreal in the context of this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661035.page

Simple.

Typhus.
377 Zombies

1848 pts.

I won't win the game by any means. But between making sure that every zombie is perfectly 2" apart, moving them individually 6" each, and packing each one away with delicate care as you destroy them in droves. I'll win morally.

I'm already wasting my time playing CSM against eldar. May as well waste yours too.

exalted...

Dman, at this point, no one deploys a WK in the open with SkyHammer coming, presumably with GravGun Devs. So, given a RTT or GT's terrain, a 4+ Cover is likely. Tiggy with those Devs to get Perfect Timing? Possibly. Likely? Not in my experience. One army in a GT with Tiggy and Centurions.

My WK ate that unit in h2h. He did make a mistake and gave the WK Scouting scouts to eat turn 1, which then 'slingshot' the WK toward Tiggy and his Centies.

I didn't encounter any at BAO. Your statement (paraphrasing) that eldar players with Sword and Shield are foolish ... dude, ITC ruled that ranged D is out. Most of us West Coast players are using our WKs with GhostGlaive and Shimmer Shield due to that ruling. I see the maple leaf on your name, but be now informed, ITC has impact.

Arguably, the WarpSpider is the best unit in the game. Scatbikes maybe tied for that spot. 3rd? The WK. Not just my opinion, but one of the ITC guys, at tourney organizer and player. Some dude whose name is synonymous with a candy.

Maybe E.T. ate them in the movie.

And your list makes me not poop my drawers at all:

Farseer onna bike Stone Anath, spear
x5 Scatbikes
x4 Scatbikes
x3 Scatbikes

Aspect Host
x9 Spiders
x6 Hawks
x6 Reapers with Starshot

WK

Riptide - Ion, FB, EWO, EarthCaste reroll
x3 dual plasma suits, EWO
Cmdr dual plasma, EWO

I'm a crappy general, finishing mid-range in tourneys, but your list doesn't make me scratch my head on how to beat it.

Yeah, I'm on the boat with TF's, and nocover masses that sill deny Jinks. Massed shots can eliminate your not-so-hot model count...

Bikes have great speed, yet if they can't hide from a general whose deployment and weapons keep them firing at full potential, the numbers will fall short.

They are impressive, them bikes, but some lists can ignore them and mass'em over the course of many turns.

Didn't you say the tournament is two sources? I don't see the solo warlock or second far seer it's a war convo, and if it's not, then you have a formation, a cad, and an assassin.

There, I countered your army without a list!

:p

 Tenzilla wrote:
308 Slugga Boys

22 Scat bikes x 4 shots each at S6 AP6 = a lot of dead boyz.

How are so many fast attack units allowed? I haven't played in a long while. Excuse my noobiness.

Guardian Jetbikes are troops.

I know this. But hemlocks are fast swooping Hawks and warp spiders as well. That makes 5 unless aspect formation counts it as 1?

They do indeed - the aspect host is a formation of 3 units of aspect warriors

I haven't bothered to read any other replies but I hope this is a joke. This is just a sub-standard competitive list compared to the eldar lists we regularly see on the UK tournament circuit (quad wraithknights, 40 scatbikes with double D-bombs, allied knights, bunker aspect hosts, skyshield artillery walls, multiple hornets, warphunters) etc.

And some of the lists that quite easily deal with these types nowadays include any space marine army with 2 or more grav centurion units, TFC, ironclads etc, the new dark angels, multiple knights blah blah blah. There are lots of options now which don't care about S6 shooting

Also how are you running 3 HQs (autarch,farseer, warlocks)? Cant count seer council as 1 unless there is 2 farseers. unless theres some ruling im missing in the codex.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Didn't you say the tournament is two sources? I don't see the solo warlock or second far seer it's a war convo, and if it's not, then you have a formation, a cad, and an assassin.

There, I countered your army without a list!

:p

The event has since changed to 3 sources according to a email I got from the TO for the event. Due to a lot of new codexs that have multiple sources


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Randy300 wrote:
Also how are you running 3 HQs (autarch,farseer, warlocks)? Cant count seer council as 1 unless there is 2 farseers. unless theres some ruling im missing in the codex.

Warlock is a unit upgrade for the 7man bike squad


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
I haven't bothered to read any other replies but I hope this is a joke. This is just a sub-standard competitive list compared to the eldar lists we regularly see on the UK tournament circuit (quad wraithknights, 40 scatbikes with double D-bombs, allied knights, bunker aspect hosts, skyshield artillery walls, multiple hornets, warphunters) etc.

And some of the lists that quite easily deal with these types nowadays include any space marine army with 2 or more grav centurion units, TFC, ironclads etc, the new dark angels, multiple knights blah blah blah. There are lots of options now which don't care about S6 shooting

The event this list is going to has a comp system that doesn't allow more the. 2 of the same thing (except for troops) and 0-1 LoW.

Double d-bomb.? As far as I no you can only take one WWp so idk how you getting 2 d-bombs

 Crazyterran wrote:
Didn't you say the tournament is two sources? I don't see the solo warlock or second far seer it's a war convo, and if it's not, then you have a formation, a cad, and an assassin.

There, I countered your army without a list!

:p

Just to clarify, does "two sources" mean "two Codexes" or "two detachments"?

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Didn't you say the tournament is two sources? I don't see the solo warlock or second far seer it's a war convo, and if it's not, then you have a formation, a cad, and an assassin.

There, I countered your army without a list!

:p

Just to clarify, does "two sources" mean "two Codexes" or "two detachments"?

Codexs

Ah right.
So I don't really see the problem then. Is one of the detachments outside the Codex: Eldar? Otherwise it's just Eldar and Assassins, which wouldn't seem to break that rule.

In this "two of" ruling, can he roll iyanden + main, w/ a formation not of those two? Or is that considered 3 sources?

MekLeN wrote:
In this "two of" ruling, can he roll iyanden + main, w/ a formation not of those two? Or is that considered 3 sources?

Nope, you can only have 2 sources, for example. A CaD, a formation and another formation would be 3 sources.

He said "sources" meant "Codexes", not "Detachments".

White Scars
CAD
Techmarine on a bike
Sicaran
Sicaran
Sicaran
4 bikes w 2 grav 1 combi
4 bikes w 2 grav 1 combi
3 bikes w 2 melta 1 combi
drop pod
void shield generator

Coteaz
heavy bolter servitor
heavy bolter servitor
heavy bolter servitor
acolyte w plasma rifle

Grey Knights
Nemesis Strike Force
Librarian
Strike Squad w incinerator
Purifiers w incinerator
Dreadknight w incinerator / sword / shunt
Dreadknight w incinerator / ham / shunt

Purifiers go in drop pod - Cleansing flame. 2d6 str5 ap4 ignores cover hits.
Incinerators ignore cover and are str 6 ap4
Dreadknight incinerators are torrent
Sicarans eat bikes like candy
Void shield protects against an alpha strike - forces you to come closer.
Coteaz w servitors n acolyte have prescience eat anyone within void shield / longer range

marinecorpstim wrote:
White Scars
CAD
Techmarine on a bike
Sicaran
Sicaran
Sicaran
4 bikes w 2 grav 1 combi
4 bikes w 2 grav 1 combi
3 bikes w 2 melta 1 combi
drop pod
void shield generator

Coteaz
heavy bolter servitor
heavy bolter servitor
heavy bolter servitor
acolyte w plasma rifle

Grey Knights
Nemesis Strike Force
Librarian
Strike Squad w incinerator
Purifiers w incinerator
Dreadknight w incinerator / sword / shunt
Dreadknight w incinerator / ham / shunt

Purifiers go in drop pod - Cleansing flame. 2d6 str5 ap4 ignores cover hits.
Incinerators ignore cover and are str 6 ap4
Dreadknight incinerators are torrent
Sicarans eat bikes like candy
Void shield protects against an alpha strike - forces you to come closer.
Coteaz w servitors n acolyte have prescience eat anyone within void shield / longer range

Bikes have a 3+ save, you have nothing to deal with the hemlocks. But good try

sicarans ignore jink, and are twin linked. Which averages 2 hits per, and 1 hull point. 1/3 of the time will be a glance 2/3 of the time it will be a pin. Further, depending on how things go, there will be up to 18 grav shots to contend with that can attempt to force a jink, or depending on where you end up coming in from reserves - coteaz n co can have their free round of prescience filled shooting with a solid chance at having perfect timing / the other ability that can force you to re-roll your reserve rolls. Also - cleansing flame is a 9" nova which does 2d6 5str hits - including to fliers - which ignores cover - so no jink.

Note: This is my list - this isn't built to specifically burn yours - but take all comers.

marinecorpstim wrote:
sicarans ignore jink, and are twin linked. Which averages 2 hits per, and 1 hull point. 1/3 of the time will be a glance 2/3 of the time it will be a pin. Further, depending on how things go, there will be up to 18 grav shots to contend with that can attempt to force a jink, or depending on where you end up coming in from reserves - coteaz n co can have their free round of prescience filled shooting with a solid chance at having perfect timing / the other ability that can force you to re-roll your reserve rolls. Also - cleansing flame is a 9" nova which does 2d6 5str hits - including to fliers - which ignores cover - so no jink.

Note: This is my list - this isn't built to specifically burn yours - but take all comers.

Fair enough on the sicarans, totally forgot how many shots they got. Yeah I played against a army that cleansing flamed both my planes down, but I toattly forgot that I was Denying the witch on a 5+ because the planes are ML2, safe to say I won't be making that mistake again lol
How come you take heavy bolters on the servitors and not plasma cannons, if you have prescience you pretty much never over heat.

Several aspect hosts of warp spiders spiders, and I'll play on that dense terrain board please!

Unending host + the Purge Renegades.

Unending Host:
Demagogue with Master of the Horde (with Earthshakers)
4 Disciples

Platoon
15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

Platoon
15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

10 mutants

10 mutants

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
Militia Training

3 Giant Spawn (as seperate units)

The Purge:
Demagogue
4 Disciples

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
Militia training

3 Earthshakers

3 Wyverns

3 Quad Guns

Skyshield Landing pad

1850pts.

When those units of 15 renegades get killed they respawn with outflank on a 2+. You have to kill them again and again.
Furthermore, they give everything from their detachment a 3+ cover save, so the spawn and Giant spawn would be advancing behind them, with their one weakness covered.
The mutants and Disciples are so cheap that if they objective sit, you have to waste firepower on units which cost practically next to nothing in points.
The 6 laser destroyers will be up on the SSLP so their LoS isn't cut off by the horde and so they get a 4++. Between them they put out 6 bs3 tl st9 ap1 ordnance shots which is lethal to most vehicles. Wyverns also on SSLP.
The earthshakers, wyverns and thudd guns (quad guns), all create dangerous terrain where they shoot for a turn. They provide a lot of cheap and effective blasts.
The Purge spawn race down one flank, hugging cover and generally causing a disruption. They are easy pickings for the jet bikes out of cover, but 18 T5 wounds in cover is still very tough for 110pts.

You have to deal with the horde or it will overwhelm you with numbers and sheer amount of plasma, especially since when they arrive the Giant Spawn and Unending Host spawn will arrive. But if you do deal with them, they will reappear 5 times out of 6 with outflank. They win the war of atrittion against your 3+ save units. The artillery is very durable, and can be deployed out of LoS (apart from the rapiers). The wyverns and rapiers will have a 4++.

Can completely ignore your Hemlocks. The cullexus has to perform stella and survive all game to even make its points back, and my cheap, cheap respawning renegades aren't fussed about D blasts or mass st6. In fact - it helps us get up the field by granting us a redeploy with outflank.

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
Is this thread for real? It is hysterical...

And somewhat surreal in the context of this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661035.page

I know. In one thread, op arrogantly brags about how unbeatable his list is and then in another tells people "l2p, n00bz, lolol".

Poly Ranger wrote:
Unending host + the Purge Renegades.

Unending Host:
Demagogue with Master of the Horde (with Earthshakers)
4 Disciples

Platoon
15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

Platoon
15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

10 mutants

10 mutants

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
Militia Training

3 Giant Spawn (as seperate units)

The Purge:
Demagogue
4 Disciples

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
Militia training

3 Earthshakers

3 Wyverns

3 Quad Guns

Skyshield Landing pad

1850pts.

When those units of 15 renegades get killed they respawn with outflank on a 2+. You have to kill them again and again.
Furthermore, they give everything from their detachment a 3+ cover save, so the spawn and Giant spawn would be advancing behind them, with their one weakness covered.
The mutants and Disciples are so cheap that if they objective sit, you have to waste firepower on units which cost practically next to nothing in points.
The 6 laser destroyers will be up on the SSLP so their LoS isn't cut off by the horde and so they get a 4++. Between them they put out 6 bs3 tl st9 ap1 ordnance shots which is lethal to most vehicles. Wyverns also on SSLP.
The earthshakers, wyverns and thudd guns (quad guns), all create dangerous terrain where they shoot for a turn. They provide a lot of cheap and effective blasts.
The Purge spawn race down one flank, hugging cover and generally causing a disruption. They are easy pickings for the jet bikes out of cover, but 18 T5 wounds in cover is still very tough for 110pts.

You have to deal with the horde or it will overwhelm you with numbers and sheer amount of plasma, especially since when they arrive the Giant Spawn and Unending Host spawn will arrive. But if you do deal with them, they will reappear 5 times out of 6 with outflank. They win the war of atrittion against your 3+ save units. The artillery is very durable, and can be deployed out of LoS (apart from the rapiers). The wyverns and rapiers will have a 4++.

Can completely ignore your Hemlocks. The cullexus has to perform stella and survive all game to even make its points back, and my cheap, cheap respawning renegades aren't fussed about D blasts or mass st6. In fact - it helps us get up the field by granting us a redeploy with outflank.

While that sounds like fun to play against, I won't hold up as well as you might think. Your 15 man squads will only come back if the whole unit is dead, just have to make sure to keep one guy left alive. But besides them I would just shoot your units that don't come back. And not to meantion I have stated that you can only take 2 sources (no double CAD allowed) so your list wouldn't be allowed at the event.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flanker wrote:

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
Is this thread for real? It is hysterical...

And somewhat surreal in the context of this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661035.page

I know. In one thread, op arrogantly brags about how unbeatable his list is and then in another tells people "l2p, n00bz, lolol".

Because people do need to learn how to play and how to stop crying and yelling wolf when ever something good comes out. It's called adapt.
And the thread says "pretty much" unbeatable. So it dose have its counters, just have yet to see one

It is not a double cad. It is an unending host and the purge, which are both totally different. Like taking ultramarines and sentinals of terra.
If you leave one alive, that is still a plasma gun, also, how do you manage to leave just one alive? Do you know exactly how many you will kill with your rolls? And what's stopping me from moving my guys forward and assaulting you to kill them off and replace them? I'll be taking up most of the board so your speed means little when there is nowhere to move.
You can shoot at the stuff that doesn't come back, however, your shooting will be at 33% of its normal effectiveness due to the 3+ cover save granted.

Poly Ranger wrote:
It is not a double cad. It is an unending host and the purge, which are both totally different. Like taking ultramarines and sentinals of terra.
If you leave one alive, that is still a plasma gun, also, how do you manage to leave just one alive? Do you know exactly how many you will kill with your rolls? And what's stopping me from moving my guys forward and assaulting you to kill them off and replace them? I'll be taking up most of the board so your speed means little when there is nowhere to move.
You can shoot at the stuff that doesn't come back, however, your shooting will be at 33% of its normal effectiveness due to the 3+ cover save granted.

You can charge of you want, bikes are better in combat. And you can cover the board all you want, I'll come in from reserve on one flank. And what 3+ cover save.? Your assuming you have a bunch of ruins to hide in. What's your plan for the hemlocks.? also I can just cover one whole flank after I kill the units on it and then just line up in the edge so you can't come in from there now you're coming on 72" away. With my 12" move and 36" turbo boost or even just my 2d6 assault move I can pull that off

I'm not assuming ruins. The special rules for the detachment give any model a 3+ cover if they have a renegade infantry unit acting as intervening models.
It really doesn't matter if you outflank. I have more than enough bodies to cover every angle.
The whole point in charging with the platoon units when low on numbers is so you wipe me out and I return next turn with outflank and a full 15 men and 3 plasma.
Are you seriously telling me that you have enough firepower to kill all my units and refuse a flank? That's just not going to be possible. You really don't want to be putting your forces in charge range of spawn and giant spawn. And if you even attempt it, the sheer amount of artillery blasts will open up the flank anyway.
No need to plan for hemlocks like I said before - I can just ignore them.

Further more, its not even tailored towards your list. If I wanted to tailor since you have no vehicles, I could get rid of the SSLP, both rapier units and a plasma gun and instead take 2 more batteries of 2 more earthshakers in each.
So all in all you'll be recieving 7 st9 ap3 large barrage blasts, 12 st4 ap5 shred, tl, IC barrage blasts and 12 st5 ap5 barrage blasts, all creating dangerous terrain, then there are 6 units each with 3 plasma guns closing on you, 3 dangerous MCs, 12 spawn and 28 further models you have to waste firepower on because they are camping objectives. That will wreck jetbikes and warpspiders!

So what are you going to shoot at? The horde with the dangerous plasma and conceling the dangerous assault units, that will simply reappear even closer to you if it dies? Or the artillery that will shrug off most of your firepower but will wipe the floor of you don't do anything about it?

Dman137 wrote:

Because people do need to learn how to play and how to stop crying and yelling wolf when ever something good comes out. It's called adapt.
And the thread says "pretty much" unbeatable. So it dose have its counters, just have yet to see one

That's a contradictory trainwreck of a statement. It has its counters, just that nobody knows what they are? You claimed to have "broken the Eldar" and challenged all to give a good counter. There are plenty of good lists in this thread to which you have responded with something along the lines of "I'll just put them here and do this! I win! lol"
So since you are clearly all-knowing, what counters could there possibly be to defeat this army? You've shot down every list from everybody who responded, many of whom are very experienced players. You don't know what the scenario will be for a battle or how the terrain will be set up, but you already have your gameplan. So what can defeat your army?

 Flanker wrote:
You've shot down every list from everybody who responded, many of whom are very experienced players. You don't know what the scenario will be for a battle or how the terrain will be set up, but you already have your gameplan. So what can defeat your army?

Only himself, fielding an identical army from the opposite side of the table. From the sounds of it, he really enjoys playing with himself

To be fair, OP did say five flyrants and three mawlocs would give the list trouble

 Flanker wrote:
You claimed to have "broken the Eldar" and challenged all to give a good counter. There are plenty of good lists in this thread to which you have responded with something along the lines of "I'll just put them here and do this! I win!"

Word! And didn't you say earlier that you didn't win the tournament. If your list is unbeatable, shouldn't you have won?...

Poly Ranger wrote:
Unending host + the Purge Renegades.

Unending Host:
Demagogue with Master of the Horde (with Earthshakers)
4 Disciples

Platoon
15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

Platoon
15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

15 renegades
3 plasma, militia training

10 mutants

10 mutants

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
Militia Training

3 Giant Spawn (as seperate units)

The Purge:
Demagogue
4 Disciples

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
Militia training

3 Earthshakers

3 Wyverns

3 Quad Guns

Skyshield Landing pad

1850pts.

When those units of 15 renegades get killed they respawn with outflank on a 2+. You have to kill them again and again.
Furthermore, they give everything from their detachment a 3+ cover save, so the spawn and Giant spawn would be advancing behind them, with their one weakness covered.
The mutants and Disciples are so cheap that if they objective sit, you have to waste firepower on units which cost practically next to nothing in points.
The 6 laser destroyers will be up on the SSLP so their LoS isn't cut off by the horde and so they get a 4++. Between them they put out 6 bs3 tl st9 ap1 ordnance shots which is lethal to most vehicles. Wyverns also on SSLP.
The earthshakers, wyverns and thudd guns (quad guns), all create dangerous terrain where they shoot for a turn. They provide a lot of cheap and effective blasts.
The Purge spawn race down one flank, hugging cover and generally causing a disruption. They are easy pickings for the jet bikes out of cover, but 18 T5 wounds in cover is still very tough for 110pts.

You have to deal with the horde or it will overwhelm you with numbers and sheer amount of plasma, especially since when they arrive the Giant Spawn and Unending Host spawn will arrive. But if you do deal with them, they will reappear 5 times out of 6 with outflank. They win the war of atrittion against your 3+ save units. The artillery is very durable, and can be deployed out of LoS (apart from the rapiers). The wyverns and rapiers will have a 4++.

Can completely ignore your Hemlocks. The cullexus has to perform stella and survive all game to even make its points back, and my cheap, cheap respawning renegades aren't fussed about D blasts or mass st6. In fact - it helps us get up the field by granting us a redeploy with outflank.

My god that list is brutal lol - looks like a winner to me. Is it from Vraks Siege book?

Yes, strangely chaos has one of the most powerful tools in the unending horde detachment, but few people seem to have caught on yet. Shhh, don't tell.

 counterwavecounter wrote:

 Flanker wrote:
You claimed to have "broken the Eldar" and challenged all to give a good counter. There are plenty of good lists in this thread to which you have responded with something along the lines of "I'll just put them here and do this! I win!"

Word! And didn't you say earlier that you didn't win the tournament. If your list is unbeatable, shouldn't you have won?...

I should have won, my opponent cheated the last game and I didn't realize it till I look over his list after.
As for counters to the list only flyrant spam/lictor shame has giving me a run for my money (has beatin it) and yes if you put up a list I'm going to give you a my gameplay reaction on what I would do and how I would play against it.

Dman137 wrote:

 counterwavecounter wrote:

 Flanker wrote:
You claimed to have "broken the Eldar" and challenged all to give a good counter. There are plenty of good lists in this thread to which you have responded with something along the lines of "I'll just put them here and do this! I win!"

Word! And didn't you say earlier that you didn't win the tournament. If your list is unbeatable, shouldn't you have won?...

I should have won, my opponent cheated the last game and I didn't realize it till I look over his list after.
As for counters to the list only flyrant spam/lictor shame has giving me a run for my money (has beatin it) and yes if you put up a list I'm going to give you a my gameplay reaction on what I would do and how I would play against it.

Oh, everyone should have guessed this already. You are so good at this game and even better at building lists, the only way to even have a chance of beating you in this game is via cheating. Don't worry, you're still the best 40k general ever. In fact, have you considered a professional career in 40k? You, if anyone, could have a shot at that.

Yeh Scommy its two different detachments from the Vraks book. As Gordon Shumway says, Unending host is one of the most OP things out there if built correctly.
When combined with the Purge for the extra elites and HS slots it just becomes crazy.

I've read this thread, and I just have to say:

1) You didn't break anything, you just took the typical eldar cheese list, and left out the knights
2) You are extremely arrogant and are either a great troll from the responses you got, or a really just that ignorant and full of yourself.
3) The only counter you would accept is the same list, played by you, on a table of your choice.

Even simple flyrant spam is enough to eat this list alive, what a joke haha.

Eldar are really strong but no stronger than the other powerful codexes out there.

 Aijec wrote:
Even simple flyrant spam is enough to eat this list alive, what a joke haha.

Eldar are really strong but no stronger than the other powerful codexes out there.

If you even bothered to read the thread you would have seen that I said flyrant gives this list a hard time

On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

 Aijec wrote:
Even simple flyrant spam is enough to eat this list alive...

Both figuratively and literally!

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it because highlander is pretty lame and there highlander rules are stupid, eldar don't get hurt that much because they have so many good units that it doesn't really matter, but a lot of marine players are pretty pissed off because everything is 0-1 so only 1 drop pod. So alpha strike army's are nurffed hard,
I already made up a list for it, it's pretty much

3 devastator centurions
drop pod
5 scouts
librarian

10 scatbikes,warlock
Farseer,shard,stones
5 rangers
Hemlock
Wraithknight
10 warpspiders

Fire raptor

1850

This is turning into a "my dad is the best and can beat up anyone else dad."

Bring your unbeatable list to a GT, or play in multiple tourneys and gain some status in a competitive field with multiple other people who have same skill level, gain some wins or close wins without having to claim someone cheated you... Then join the wait list of what is considered top tier, by rinse and repeating.

/thread

Tsilber wrote:
This is turning into a "my dad is the best and can beat up anyone else dad."

Bring your unbeatable list to a GT, or play in multiple tourneys and gain some status in a competitive field with multiple other people who have same skill level, gain some wins or close wins without having to claim someone cheated you... Then join the wait list of what is considered top tier, by rinse and repeating.

lol I have enough credibility in competitive tournements, and having status in 6th edition and now 7th edition is a joke when you see the army's that have won. All these "deathstar" armys winning events. 40k will never be what it used to be back in 4th/5th where people had to actually have skill to play.

So the Fennels and other lvo champs. The 3 peat adepticon winner, Nana, other nova partcipants who constantly place and have great ranking in organized global 40 ranking like ToF and Itc, and the templecon onslaught 2 years in a row champ are all flukes? Hahah yeah maybe they should post how they are the masterminds of the game and only lose due to cheaters... Because talking about how great your list is and calling creditable winners skillless or lucky supercedes the actual victory of said players.
Whats your next tourney? Is it a GT? Id be interested to hear how you do and see who you play.

How about [insert random psyker-heavy deathstar list], but with a vindicare added to headshot your culexus?

Tsilber wrote:
So the Fennels and other lvo champs. The 3 peat adepticon winner, Nana, other nova partcipants who constantly place and have great ranking in organized global 40 ranking like ToF and Itc, and the templecon onslaught 2 years in a row champ are all flukes? Hahah yeah maybe they should post how they are the masterminds of the game and only lose due to cheaters... Because talking about how great your list is and calling creditable winners skillless or lucky supercedes the actual victory of said players.
Whats your next tourney? Is it a GT? Id be interested to hear how you do and see who you play.

Power gaming list that win events go figure, adepticon won by screamerstar and dronestar.. Tell me again how hard that must be

Dman137 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
So the Fennels and other lvo champs. The 3 peat adepticon winner, Nana, other nova partcipants who constantly place and have great ranking in organized global 40 ranking like ToF and Itc, and the templecon onslaught 2 years in a row champ are all flukes? Hahah yeah maybe they should post how they are the masterminds of the game and only lose due to cheaters... Because talking about how great your list is and calling creditable winners skillless or lucky supercedes the actual victory of said players.
Whats your next tourney? Is it a GT? Id be interested to hear how you do and see who you play.

Power gaming list that win events go figure, adepticon won by screamerstar and dronestar.. Tell me again how hard that must be

hahahaha, so in the same thread, that you started, allegedly breaking eldar to be unbeatable, you have the gaul to accuse someone of power gaming.

Also that list takes skill, hence all the people who copy it and fail miserably with it...

Regardless, your thread says you can take on anyone. Well unless they are skill-less, beat you and you can declare cheating, or are power gamers?

Seems more like excuses, and your declaration should have some contingencies to avoid further embarrassment.

What about the rest of the list that win? the other tourney winners I spoke about above?
And again, whats you next tourney? size? I know we are kinda going tit for tat last few replies, but I am generally interested in some of your results and who and where said results occur.

Tsilber wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
So the Fennels and other lvo champs. The 3 peat adepticon winner, Nana, other nova partcipants who constantly place and have great ranking in organized global 40 ranking like ToF and Itc, and the templecon onslaught 2 years in a row champ are all flukes? Hahah yeah maybe they should post how they are the masterminds of the game and only lose due to cheaters... Because talking about how great your list is and calling creditable winners skillless or lucky supercedes the actual victory of said players.
Whats your next tourney? Is it a GT? Id be interested to hear how you do and see who you play.

Power gaming list that win events go figure, adepticon won by screamerstar and dronestar.. Tell me again how hard that must be

hahahaha, so in the same thread, that you started, allegedly breaking eldar to be unbeatable, you have the gaul to accuse someone of power gaming.

Also that list takes skill, hence all the people who copy it and fail miserably with it...

Regardless, your thread says you can take on anyone. Well unless they are skill-less, beat you and you can declare cheating, or are power gamers?

Seems more like excuses, and your declaration should have some contingencies to avoid further embarrassment.

What about the rest of the list that win? the other tourney winners I spoke about above?
And again, whats you next tourney? size? I know we are kinda going tit for tat last few replies, but I am generally interested in some of your results and who and where said results occur.

This list would beat that daemons list. Next event is warmasters and then it's DaboyzGT

Cool maybe I can give you a run at daboyzgt. There is another GT in manchester CT. The e guy who won LVO last year is running it. Before entry fee's, the store is already contributing like 2k worth of prize fee, then 100% entry fee also on top of that.

If NY daboyz isnt to much of a trip manchester CT isnt much further, its in october.

Tsilber wrote:
Cool maybe I can give you a run at daboyzgt. There is another GT in manchester CT. The e guy who won LVO last year is running it. Before entry fee's, the store is already contributing like 2k worth of prize fee, then 100% entry fee also on top of that.

If NY daboyz isnt to much of a trip manchester CT isnt much further, its in october.

Send me a link to that and yeah I'd love to come, the group I'm going with were from Toronto, so I'm sure if i swing the idea by them They would want to come down.

Conversion Beamers.
S10 AP1 Heavy 1 Blast at 42" range to 72" range.
Have fun.


/enddiscussion

shortymcnostrill wrote:
How about [insert random psyker-heavy deathstar list], but with a vindicare added to headshot your culexus?

The Vindicare is a horrid choice to try to kill the Culexus it takes him on average 36 rounds of shooting to kill the Culexus...

As for the list. It is decent the double Wraithfighters is good and with no pod I worry about the Culexus getting shot to bits before he gets to deny the invisistar it's powers. Thunderknightstar run by a good player causes you issues. As does lictor shame as you've mentioned. I also fancy EldAIR against you as the Crimson hunters ruin the Wraithfighters whilst their Wraithfighters ruin your bikes. I would also worry about some of the Alphastriking lists doing real damage before you can respond.

It does seem you are having success with the list but I do find it hilarious that you start by saying the list has no counters and is unbeatable then admit it has lost and has some bad matchups...

So no you haven't broken Eldar you've written a good eldar list. That is all. I was wondering how exactly did your opponent "cheat" at adepticon?

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Conversion Beamers.
S10 AP1 Heavy 1 Blast at 42" range to 72" range.
Have fun.


/enddiscussion

Good choice, but does it ignore a cover save? Does it require line of site?

Tsilber wrote:

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Conversion Beamers.
S10 AP1 Heavy 1 Blast at 42" range to 72" range.
Have fun.


/enddiscussion

Good choice, but does it ignore a cover save? Does it require line of site?

DEATHSTRIKE MISSILES AT THE READY!

Dman137 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it because highlander is pretty lame and there highlander rules are stupid, eldar don't get hurt that much because they have so many good units that it doesn't really matter, but a lot of marine players are pretty pissed off because everything is 0-1 so only 1 drop pod. So alpha strike army's are nurffed hard,
I already made up a list for it, it's pretty much

3 devastator centurions
drop pod
5 scouts
librarian

10 scatbikes,warlock
Farseer,shard,stones
5 rangers
Hemlock
Wraithknight
10 warpspiders

Fire raptor

1850

Ah Sentinels of Terra, reminding everyone why we hated 3.5 Iron Warriors.

I play against a guy with a similiar list regularly and my Nurgle CSM/Nurgle Daemons do very well against it. Deep Striking Terminators, summoned Daemons, and Flying Daemon Princes help box the bikes in and then you just pound them. Heldrake and Flying Daemon Princes combo vector striking your Hemlocks almost guaranteed to bring one down each turn if done right. You're list isn't unbeatable at all you just need better competition.

Dman137 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
Cool maybe I can give you a run at daboyzgt. There is another GT in manchester CT. The e guy who won LVO last year is running it. Before entry fee's, the store is already contributing like 2k worth of prize fee, then 100% entry fee also on top of that.

If NY daboyz isnt to much of a trip manchester CT isnt much further, its in october.

Send me a link to that and yeah I'd love to come, the group I'm going with were from Toronto, so I'm sure if i swing the idea by them They would want to come down.

That could be fun since Da Boyz is now a no go with its highlander shiz.

Tsilber wrote:

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Conversion Beamers.
S10 AP1 Heavy 1 Blast at 42" range to 72" range.
Have fun.


/enddiscussion

Good choice, but does it ignore a cover save? Does it require line of site?

Well for gak like Wraithknights, LoS isnt the problem, also, stick the Techmarine in an LR with Servitors to give cover/backup shooty.
Blast ignores cover IIRC?

I'm confident my highlander list can handle yours. Well see in November

raoiley wrote:
I'm confident my highlander list can handle yours. Well see in November

See you there

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Conversion Beamers.
S10 AP1 Heavy 1 Blast at 42" range to 72" range.
Have fun.


/enddiscussion

Good choice, but does it ignore a cover save? Does it require line of site?

Well for gak like Wraithknights, LoS isnt the problem, also, stick the Techmarine in an LR with Servitors to give cover/backup shooty.
Blast ignores cover IIRC?

Don't you think it'd be a bit overpowered if ALL blasts completely ignored cover? You most likely confused templates with blasts, templates do ignore cover.

This list is actually not very good at all. And if you think the culexus without a droppod, or flyer, or some kind oi sturdy transport will make a difference you are delusional.

You have little chance against an Eldar seer council list, Necron Decurion with a DCult, or any daemon list. (Like the one I brought to ATC)

 Lord Commissar wrote:
This list is actually not very good at all. And if you think the culexus without a droppod, or flyer, or some kind oi sturdy transport will make a difference you are delusional.

You have little chance against an Eldar seer council list, Necron Decurion with a DCult, or any daemon list. (Like the one I brought to ATC)

Idk if we play the same game. I've played this army against eldar, necrons and Daemons and I've had great successes, eldar against eldar is a rock paper scissors type game, necrons I handle very well, hemlocks reck necrons and I'd love to play your daemons, what are you going to do when I castle in a corner with the assassin sitting in front of my army, you really underestimate the power this list has. But if your confident in your army all the power to you, maybe you'll play me at a event, there's still a few this year ( depending on where you live)

 Lord Commissar wrote:
This list is actually not very good at all. And if you think the culexus without a droppod, or flyer, or some kind oi sturdy transport will make a difference you are delusional.

You have little chance against an Eldar seer council list, Necron Decurion with a DCult, or any daemon list. (Like the one I brought to ATC)

Yo, Lord, mind PMing me your Daemons list? I'm always looking for new ways to make the unreal hordes work.

Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

God this thread makes me heave.

Let's put this particular dog down, shall we?

Dman137 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

Or variations of belakor and or fateweaver with the standard 30 summoning horrors backed with either the stars or flying princes and maybe dogs. Its a pain in the ass army.

Dman137 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it

Have you ever even been to Da Boyz? Or spoken to a living person who has been to Da Boyz? Are "a lot of people" you and the random Daemon players you've somehow been beating with a foot Culexus?

Because saying that people who attend Da Boyz are upset about Highlander rules is hilarious. Da Boyz is, and always has been, the most heavily comped tournament of the year. Highlander is a huge step down from what they usually do in terms of comp (their army construction rules are generally a multi-page document).

People attend Da Boyz because it's so different, and because the guys run a really fun event (at a stupidly amazing location, by the way). We were actually all shocked that they did let us take multiples of units last year....and then they wrote two different missions that crotch-punched you for actually taking multiples of units. Lesson learned!

Literally everything else in this thread is too ridiculous to even comment on; I just found it hilarious that "a lot of people" are upset about comp at Da Boyz. That's gold.

Just played that list with 4 knights I lost 2 he lost everything. I laugh at eldar. But harlicuins scare me haha.

Deathmachine wrote:
Just played that list with 4 knights I lost 2 he lost everything. I laugh at eldar. But harlicuins scare me haha.

Do you mean he had 4 Wraithknights, or that you had 4 Imperial Knights?

Deathmachine wrote:
Just played that list with 4 knights I lost 2 he lost everything. I laugh at eldar. But harlicuins scare me haha.

that's shocking since I played a game the other weak against nights (he had 3, with that +1 formation to the armour) and I tabled him. And I still had pretty much my whole army left. Lost 2 or 3 small bike squads and a d-cannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DJ3 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it

Have you ever even been to Da Boyz? Or spoken to a living person who has been to Da Boyz? Are "a lot of people" you and the random Daemon players you've somehow been beating with a foot Culexus?

Because saying that people who attend Da Boyz are upset about Highlander rules is hilarious. Da Boyz is, and always has been, the most heavily comped tournament of the year. Highlander is a huge step down from what they usually do in terms of comp (their army construction rules are generally a multi-page document).

People attend Da Boyz because it's so different, and because the guys run a really fun event (at a stupidly amazing location, by the way). We were actually all shocked that they did let us take multiples of units last year....and then they wrote two different missions that crotch-punched you for actually taking multiples of units. Lesson learned!

Literally everything else in this thread is too ridiculous to even comment on; I just found it hilarious that "a lot of people" are upset about comp at Da Boyz. That's gold.

Highlander is just lazy comp plain and simple.

Dman137 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

Not true

Ravenous D wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

Or variations of belakor and or fateweaver with the standard 30 summoning horrors backed with either the stars or flying princes and maybe dogs. Its a pain in the ass army.

Not true. Some run no screamers or drone star, and at the same time no fateweaver or multiple flying dp's, and still have success.

DJ3 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it

Have you ever even been to Da Boyz? Or spoken to a living person who has been to Da Boyz? Are "a lot of people" you and the random Daemon players you've somehow been beating with a foot Culexus?

Because saying that people who attend Da Boyz are upset about Highlander rules is hilarious. Da Boyz is, and always has been, the most heavily comped tournament of the year. Highlander is a huge step down from what they usually do in terms of comp (their army construction rules are generally a multi-page document).

People attend Da Boyz because it's so different, and because the guys run a really fun event (at a stupidly amazing location, by the way). We were actually all shocked that they did let us take multiples of units last year....and then they wrote two different missions that crotch-punched you for actually taking multiples of units. Lesson learned!

Literally everything else in this thread is too ridiculous to even comment on; I just found it hilarious that "a lot of people" are upset about comp at Da Boyz. That's gold.

Considering this is the same guy responsible for this gem: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661035.page and ongoing trolling here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661482.page I think we can see a pattern emerging.

Posts nothing but Scatbike spam in the army lists section (bonus points for claiming that Eldar have no other options! ), then suddenly has a revelation and posts...the exact same army list that everyone expects out of an Eldar powergamer/cheesemonger. I think we're done here.

Dman137 wrote:Highlander is just lazy comp plain and simple.

Highlander is great if you aren't allergic to fun. It's probably the only workable comp system in the game: take only one of anything. Sure, it ends up favoring some armies more than others, but it at least gets people to think creatively about list building instead of just mindlessly spamming the same OP units. A pity it doesn't really work above 1000 points.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Dman137 wrote:Highlander is just lazy comp plain and simple.

Highlander is great if you aren't allergic to fun. It's probably the only workable comp system in the game: take only one of anything. Sure, it ends up favoring some armies more than others but it at least gets people to think creatively about list building instead of just mindlessly spamming the same OP units. A pity it doesn't really work above 1000 points.

Favours some armies more than others. Every comp system does that. Highlander is just lazy as hell, so many things sneak under the radar it circumvents the "fun" of having a army you would never use in any other format, what you call creative I call taking tax units to pad your death star. Da Boyz have been around long enough they might as well just do a dex by dex restrictions list. And even then the top guys will just take what works best in that scenario.

You're just going to see the Immortal stompa, bunkerpult cents, the typical 4-6 units in the daemon dex and bizarre ass eldar combos most likely abusing the aspect host + wraithknight/hemlocks/seer council. Plus we got Tau in a few weeks and if the trend keeps going its going to be cranked to 11. The first thing you need to honest with yourself over is that 75% of all tournament goers are goob players who are complete non contenders and totally irrelevant to the outcome of the event, last year I fought a bare plastic army and the guy was playing like he actually had a shot. Losing a single game at Da Boyz is basically lights out short of having something that is beautifully painted.

I generally dislike comp as it causes far more balance issues than it ever solves, it also goes against what 7th Ed is trying to be about. If comp was an attempt to balance all codexes then you need to go through nearly every unit in every codex. Highlander is my least favourite comp as it throws certain codexes in the bin whilst not hurting at all some too tier builds (most deathstar builds are fine and War Convoc gets a huge boon). It doesn't make for more intelligent or varied list building it just kills a bunch of options and codexes. I also see comp as contrary to the entire point of a tournament.

Whilst to be fair to him I don't really see those 2 posts as trolling. The language might be incendiary and poorly constructed but lets be honest the guy is probably mud to late teens (hence his inability to use the word "then").

He had a point to an extent in both. Firstly people should reduce their fear and hatred of the Eldar codex. Secondly fixing it is relatively simple 100 points on the Wraithknight is fair (not the ludicrous over estimates in the thread) and increase the cost of weapons on jetbikes to 15 points and you're done. It is then in line with Marines, Necrons and Knights.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I generally dislike comp as it causes far more balance issues than it ever solves, it also goes against what 7th Ed is trying to be about. If comp was an attempt to balance all codexes then you need to go through nearly every unit in every codex. Highlander is my least favourite comp as it throws certain codexes in the bin whilst not hurting at all some too tier builds (most deathstar builds are fine and War Convoc gets a huge boon). It doesn't make for more intelligent or varied list building it just kills a bunch of options and codexes. I also see comp as contrary to the entire point of a tournament.

I have always found it rather arrogant and unlikely to think that a few gamers without any large scale play testing would be able to create a better inter-codex balance than what GW gives us.

Sure Eldar is on top right now (and since 2013 May is it ?), but even if you'd limit Eldar, you'd have a top dog, who'd inevitably also have a 5% lead on the others, etc. ...

In my opinion, it's just better to leave the game alone, power variance generates meta shifts and that makes competitive play more interesting - now that GW updates codex at a reasonable pace I think it really isn't so bad.

I did expect my Eldar to be nerfed, not to be told to buy 9 Vaul's Wrath and 30 Jetbikes instead.

most GT's comp are organized by very experienced players...
And people show up to those tourneys.
Which sparks smaller tourney T.O.s whether experienced or not to follow suit, for better turn outs.

I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

Can we stop saying Eldar is on top? How many GT's have they won this year? ZERO. Do they have strong units? Yes. Are they invincible? NO! I took my Eldar to the Iron Halo GT and placed 13th. There is NO unbeatable list in the dice game we play, or it would win every tournament, every time. Stop trying to break the game and enjoy it.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

Can we stop saying Eldar is on top? How many GT's have they won this year? ZERO. Do they have strong units? Yes. Are they invincible? NO! I took my Eldar to the Iron Halo GT and placed 13th. There is NO unbeatable list in the dice game we play, or it would win every tournament, every time. Stop trying to break the game and enjoy it.

Good Points

My daemon list was also just an example, I can think of several other lists that have a higher chance winning than losing against you. Current seerstar for example is alive and well just to name another (Imo better) eldar list. '

My daemons do indeed use a screamerstar. As well as 2 large squads of khorne hounds. I did very well at ATC with it, 3rd to be precise.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

As a teacher can you tell when "than" was removed from the American dictionary? It is still a part of English but seems to have gone completely from this site and BoLS, Feit212 etc, Warseer etc

 FlingitNow wrote:

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

As a teacher can you tell when "than" was removed from the American dictionary? It is still a part of English but seems to have gone completely from this site and BoLS, Feit212 etc, Warseer etc

One of the reasons, even though I don't play Tau anymore, I love AdvancedTauTactica is that they have a VERY high standard for grammar and actually having your posts mean something, instead of like the OP has done several times - *this list crushes all* and walking away without much explanation of how or why. Anywho, just a pet peeve I guess. Nobody is perfect, myself included, but reading his posts is sometimes painful.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
My daemons do indeed use a screamerstar. As well as 2 large squads of khorne hounds. I did very well at ATC with it, 3rd to be precise.

I was wondering what beat me out for that sweet, sweet plastic Daemon medal.

Weren't you on one of the Orlando teams? I think we played Skull N Bonez but they didn't have a Daemon player; I played Marc's Seer Council that round. Where'd you guys finish up, and were they using you mostly as an attacker or defender?

We actually didn't play against many Daemons that weekend and I was curious how others were using them.

I was the captain of the most "modest" of the OH Orlando teams. Generally, I made my list to be an allcomer list with a few caveats of "If they have this, drop this person instead" etc. I was dropped first twice iirc. The meta of ATC really caught us off guard.

DId you end up beating Marc? If so, that's impressive.

One word "forgeworld"

Stalked21 wrote:
One word "forgeworld"

Technically "Forge World" is always spelled as two separate words.
Also technically all their products are spelled in UPPERCASE.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

Can we stop saying Eldar is on top? How many GT's have they won this year? ZERO. Do they have strong units? Yes. Are they invincible? NO! I took my Eldar to the Iron Halo GT and placed 13th. There is NO unbeatable list in the dice game we play, or it would win every tournament, every time. Stop trying to break the game and enjoy it.

People saying any list is unbeatable are flat out wrong, yes. The issue with eldar is that while the other top table lists are getting there using mainly formations bonuses that will probably cease to exist in their next book, the eldar get to those same tables with just a CAD and awesome unit quality. Unless their next book is drastically different, that's probably not going anywhere.

13th out of 40 is still high enough that I'd say you're in the area where top table lists fall when they have a couple bad important rolls, like a bad game end roll or not getting the proper turn order against another hard list. Alternatively it may have involved player mistakes. I had a guy make me go first, then seize initiative on my battleco at a recent event when he really shouldn't have. That list of mine loves going 2nd. Lastly bad matchups happen too. You might've caught someone who came listed mainly for eldar. Anyone who goes probably 4-2 or higher in my opinion could have won 1st place in a slightly alternate dimension with the same list.

Also I feel the need to point out that you weren't the highest eldar list there. There were a few above you, and one came in 2nd after JUST BARELY losing his last game. He had some bs happen like his warlord running off the table from a standard morale for losing one bike, and two warp spider squads that kept mishapping back into reserve, one of them failing to EVER make it into the game. I should know, I was there. :p

I hear ya Nev, but it gets old hearing all the griping about how Eldar is so broken and always the best. I just think if they were SO over powered (I'm not saying WK's aren't undercosted by a ton, because they are) that they would be smashing tournaments right and left. There is always the human factor, that you mentioned, that will balance the game on it's own as well. I had a terrible mismatch against a 'nid opponent and got smashed in round 4 after a mirror match against a different eldar guy round 2 in the KP game.

If I'm going to rant and rave that one book is broken, I don't think it would have a 'hard counter'. It would just be the best all comers overall list. As of right now, there are multiple books winning big GT's, but Eldar hasn't been one of them. That was my point. Sorry if I drug it through the mud, as-it-were, just tired of all the whining I guess, don't really see the point. I might not like a matchup (the one I didn't was war convocation at the IH - and I drew it round 3) but I can still play my pants off to get a result. I manage to tie that game (stupid 11" charge top of turn 5 cost me the game lol not that I'm bitter or anything

Thanks for the comment Nev, PM me what you were running at IH?

Castellan Alaric wrote:


Thanks for the comment Nev, PM me what you were running at IH?

No pm necessary, it's actually open knowledge. :p That list is in this report: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/658173.page
(TL;dr it was the man spam battle co that ended up in first after some clench-worthy close endings in round 5 and 6.)

And as far as the "omg OP" comments, yeah there's a large crowd on the net that doesn't really understand the tourney meta. In ITC there are like 6 tier 1 lists and several tier 2's, and eldar biker/knight CAD's are just a single one of the tier 1 builds. They're good, but at a big event you still need skill and luck on top, because the other 5 top tier lists are just as good.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
And as far as the "omg OP" comments, yeah there's a large crowd on the net that doesn't really understand the tourney meta. In ITC there are like 6 tier 1 lists and several tier 2's, and eldar biker/knight CAD's are just a single one of the tier 1 builds. They're good, but at a big event you still need skill and luck on top, because the other 5 top tier lists are just as good.

This. I don't see the same lists at top tables, so much as I see the same dudes (and sometimes dude-ette).

So, Dman, what tourneys have you taken your list to and crushed all? It's fine enough to wrack up a 9+ page thread on it but how about some tourney titles?

Play against 60 warp spiders from the war host . Watch as they dance all the over place and you can't hit them with unlimited flicker jumps (since we don't play itc here but etc rulings).

On the drop they kill about 20-25 bikes.

Spiders are the god kings, scatter bikes are so 3 months ago. Mobility is king and spiders out do even bikes in that regard.

Unless your opponent brings Knights and then you're dead...

Get in the sides / rear. pew pew dead knights. Oh they shoot back, hide behind terrain. Oh they are trying to charge you? Run 6 jump 2d6 in assault phase.

Yeah that is not going to work. If you get in side/rear 10 Spiders do about 1 HP between them and then get charged. Run 6" and thrust 2d6"? Well in the side you're just moving toward another Knight in the rear you're bouncing off the table edge.

Warp Spiders are good, very good in fact (I own 35 of em) but their inability to deal with AV13+ means relying on them will cost you and cost you big in certain match ups. A couple of Scorpius hiding behind Bunkers full of Centurions likewise ruins your day. Amongst almost any Mech heavy build.

But against the right builds 120 S6 shots is going to really hurt.