A new version of Bolt Action was announced the other day.
The new starter box will feature Plastic German Grenadiers and Plastic US Airborne, an a Plastic Puma armored car. And a building.
The box will also include dice and a mini-rulebook.
Just had another look of the warlord forums and it's looking like a 2017 release for the airborne minis on their own. The starter set seems to be coming this fall. Il prob bag the starter set online somewhere on release.
I also read the airborne will only be in the starter until a 2017 release date. Considering I could use a puma and a house I guess I'll grab a box online somewhere. I just really need some updated ETO allies. The new german pzgrenadiers and FJ are making the old models just look silly.
I'll probably give the Germans away in hopes of enlisting a new player.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Ow, and I'm just getting started... Are they going to update rules as well or is only the startersert concerced so far?
The rules are getting updated. It's a fairly solid system, so I'd imagine it'll be a few tweaks here and there.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Ow, and I'm just getting started... Are they going to update rules as well or is only the startersert concerced so far?
The rules are getting updated. It's a fairly solid system, so I'd imagine it'll be a few tweaks here and there.
There is going to be the introduction of templates. Which makes me kind of skeptical, but I am willing to allow it to pass if the rest of the ruleset for 2.0 is good.
Hum, I dunno. it seems to me it's a great simplification, but their system, especially for HE shells, was quite good even though a bit more complicated. But if they manage not to make it so Deadly as in WH40, that should be alright.
Templates. A simplification. Ha.Hahaha. AHAHAHAHAHA!
"He's not under the template because his whole base isnt under"
"He is under the template because 0.1% of his base is under"
"These arent official templates so how do you know they are the correct size, I refuse to let you use them"
And so on and so forth. The d6 system was far, far simpler.
If that's a rules updating, their will be a reference size and rule for using them. So no need to argue for the players. The real question isn't there: if it works well it is a simplification. But will it really suit to Bolt Action? Here's the real problem.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: If that's a rules updating, their will be a reference size and rule for using them. So no need to argue for the players. The real question isn't there: if it works well it is a simplification. But will it really suit to Bolt Action? Here's the real problem.
Alessio stated it was to prevent the unrealistic clumping up of units (infantry clumps running across the battlefield). From what I understand, if it's an HE weapon, if you roll to hit and you miss, no template. If you hit, you place the template wherever you want on the unit.
Plus, Bolt Action already has templates - offboard artillery, smoke shells - this kind of unifies the system so there's not a mix of two different types of area effect weapons (dice based HE and area based HE)
But mainly the new rules just implement a) all the FAQ and Errata stuff, b) buffs to LMG/MMG's, c) nerfs to Recce and cavalry and d) make armored transports more useful.
And yeah the nearly confirmed rumor is that the new set has the new plastic US Airborne, plastic German Grenadiers, plastic Puma, plastic building, dice, order dice, plastic pin tokens, mini rulebook, and scenario book for US Airborne landings on D-Day.
I wonder if the plastic soldiers are existing stock from Wargames Factory (since Warlord Games did buy them out). I have their American and German soldier sets and wish I could get more of them.
Stormonu wrote: I wonder if the plastic soldiers are existing stock from Wargames Factory (since Warlord Games did buy them out). I have their American and German soldier sets and wish I could get more of them.
My understanding is that the plastic airborne will be a new set that will get its initial release with the BA 2.0 starter, but won't be sold independently until at least half a year later.
In its july 6th's newsletter, Warlord games announced Bolt Action's 2nd for next fall. They've also, as showed silent puffin, given us a glimpse of the US paratroopers sprues.
Will be all over this one for the plastic airborne alone. Have the dick winters model they made available for historicon weekend a couple years ago. Was one of the things that made me pick up bolt action in the first place.
privateer4hire wrote: On TMP somebody said 2.0 would be adding templates to the rules. Anybody have confirmation on that?
For lack of rulebook yet, I can't explain how it's actually going to work, but it's been confirmed in this topic that templates would effectively get added to the game.
I guess no one seeing the book answers my question if there's a list of changes anywhere yet. Does anyone know if LMG teams have been tweaked yet? The current opinion being that 2 rifles are superior to them in pretty much every way.
Manchu wrote: The only army book getting a second edition - supposedly - is Germany.
By now they've announced they wouldn't modify the others, only germany because they were the first and test one who therefore needed an update to match beter with the othes. Maybe REAL special army rules
I'm a bit concerned about templates. As someone who uses the standard platoon OOB of a country that used large squads I find it much more difficult manoeuvring my squads than someone with a 7 man minmaxed vet squad and frequently need to bunch up due to how my clubs terrain is.
For example in the last scenario game (Island defence) we played the defensive positions that I was given bunched my guys up into a squares which would have made them amazing artillery targets.
I am willing to give it a go but I can't help but worry that I might need to make a massive overhaul of my army, argue a lot about the terrain setup or consider starting a new army.
Not having templates in 1.0 was actually one of the big sells for me. Much rather roll a dice to figure out the number of potential casualties than get into template placement discussions. Even with the nicest opponent, templates are just a disagreement waiting to happen.
squad spacing is a significant issue in real life though - i welcome these changes.
I can see the light howitzer being made redundant though - i'd like to see how the sturmtigers 4D6 HE be represented as well.
Overall, tactical changes with officers drawing dice out of the bag will make snipers more preferential and the use of senior officers in swarm based lists like the Japanese.
badgermeister wrote: squad spacing is a significant issue in real life though - i welcome these changes.
I can see the light howitzer being made redundant though - i'd like to see how the sturmtigers 4D6 HE be represented as well.
Overall, tactical changes with officers drawing dice out of the bag will make snipers more preferential and the use of senior officers in swarm based lists like the Japanese.
In real life squads arent required to maintain 1" coherency though.
I too was drawn to having no templates in 1st ed. Its so much easier to just roll a die or 3 to determine effect without having to wrangle a template around terrain and models. Not really sure why people would have issue with it.
I'd imagine they did it to ease the transition for 40k players (and lets be honest, thats a major source of new players). Its not like templates are objectively superior. About the only thing they add is that a potential "miss" can still hit other units.
Heres hoping its a more straight line deviation like Starship troopers did, aka you either fall short or go over, theres no accidentally hitting 20 feet to the right of the target from 40 feet away like 40k does
There are tons of templates in BA1, though. Off-board artillery uses templates, and mortars and on-board artillery firing smoke are all templates. Often many games will have several templates on the table.
BA2's templates are to
a) unify the system, so there's not templates for one type of firing and no templates for another type
b) reduce overkill (unit of three guys gets hit by 15 hits from an HE3d6 weapon, taking five hits per model)
c) reduce unrealistic deathstar clumps of guys charging across the field
I will repeat once again that it has been indicated by Alessio that there is no such thing as template deviation in BA2. If you miss, the shot misses (just like current HE), if you hit, you place a template.
This new method means that smaller units won't be taking the 2, 3, 4, 5 hits per model under current HE rules; and large units will take less hits if they are properly dispersed as per real-world tactics, unlike the current HE rules which do not reward actual battlefield tactics.
privateer4hire wrote: Not having templates in 1.0 was actually one of the big sells for me. Much rather roll a dice to figure out the number of potential casualties than get into template placement discussions. Even with the nicest opponent, templates are just a disagreement waiting to happen.
Know what? I agree. When playing 40k, that often happens (especially when the guy you shoot at tries to avoid the maximum damage...)
Just to confirm, is this a full starter set with everything needed to play a game, ie two forces and the rules?
It's something I've been looking at getting into and this could be the way to do it
To be honest, they still haven't released it for either pre order nor announced precisly and officially its content in the news letter if i'm not mistaken. Though, according to how they built "D-Day Firefight", my guess is that they're gonna keep the same kind of composition and just introduce new models in it.
privateer4hire wrote: Not having templates in 1.0 was actually one of the big sells for me. Much rather roll a dice to figure out the number of potential casualties than get into template placement discussions. Even with the nicest opponent, templates are just a disagreement waiting to happen.
Know what? I agree. When playing 40k, that often happens (especially when the guy you shoot at tries to avoid the maximum damage...)
Definitely. Remember a guy playing 40k orks who used to have a little 2" measure that he used to ensure each of his miniatures was as fully dispersed as possible. It does encourage gamey behaviour, but hopefully for BA2 the rule will have been implemented with intelligence.
Huron black heart wrote: Just to confirm, is this a full starter set with everything needed to play a game, ie two forces and the rules?
It's something I've been looking at getting into and this could be the way to do it
From what I've heard around the internet, it's gonna be two sections of US Airborne, a section of German Grenadiers and a Puma armored car, a piece of terrain, mini rule book, dice, pin markers, range rulers, hopefully some templates. Nothing official has been announed yet, so take it salty, but you should have everything (apart from glue) to game.
Considering the books gonna be released by fall that surely wont be any 2nd edition one. They just wanna get rid of the 1st rulebooks they still have in stock
Huron black heart wrote: Just to confirm, is this a full starter set with everything needed to play a game, ie two forces and the rules?
It's something I've been looking at getting into and this could be the way to do it
From what I've heard around the internet, it's gonna be two sections of US Airborne, a section of German Grenadiers and a Puma armored car, a piece of terrain, mini rule book, dice, pin markers, range rulers, hopefully some templates. Nothing official has been announed yet, so take it salty, but you should have everything (apart from glue) to game.
Either way it is still a great deal, especially for that Puma.
Pacific wrote: Received an offer from Wayland Games the other day with this
Spoiler:
I assume it must be 1st ed. still, considering how far off the 2nd ed. book is? Will drop them a note to check.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Considering the books gonna be released by fall that surely wont be any 2nd edition one. They just wanna get rid of the 1st rulebooks they still have in stock
If Wayland's reputation is anything to go by then 2nd Ed will be out before you get a dispatched email
I think they mean the "Armies of" and campaign books, and all but the German army book is useable with 2nd Ed, the only softback core rules is in the starter set. Free with a £50 order is good, would've got my Konflikt starter from them if it wasn't for their poor rep at getting things out the door and to their customers.
Pacific wrote: Received an offer from Wayland Games the other day with this
Spoiler:
I assume it must be 1st ed. still, considering how far off the 2nd ed. book is? Will drop them a note to check.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Considering the books gonna be released by fall that surely wont be any 2nd edition one. They just wanna get rid of the 1st rulebooks they still have in stock
If Wayland's reputation is anything to go by then 2nd Ed will be out before you get a dispatched email
I think they mean the "Armies of" and campaign books, and all but the German army book is useable with 2nd Ed, the only softback core rules is in the starter set. Free with a £50 order is good, would've got my Konflikt starter from them if it wasn't for their poor rep at getting things out the door and to their customers.
Comment for another thread, and I know its anecdotal, but I've not had any problems with ordering from Wayland. That's probably getting on for a dozen orders over the past 3-4 years.
I think a lot of the issues (from what I have read) were in ordering the really high volume GW stuff on release, which Wayland were taking pre-orders from, but then not able to fulfil.
Pacific wrote: Received an offer from Wayland Games the other day with this
Spoiler:
I assume it must be 1st ed. still, considering how far off the 2nd ed. book is? Will drop them a note to check.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Considering the books gonna be released by fall that surely wont be any 2nd edition one. They just wanna get rid of the 1st rulebooks they still have in stock
If Wayland's reputation is anything to go by then 2nd Ed will be out before you get a dispatched email
I think they mean the "Armies of" and campaign books, and all but the German army book is useable with 2nd Ed, the only softback core rules is in the starter set. Free with a £50 order is good, would've got my Konflikt starter from them if it wasn't for their poor rep at getting things out the door and to their customers.
Comment for another thread, and I know its anecdotal, but I've not had any problems with ordering from Wayland. That's probably getting on for a dozen orders over the past 3-4 years.
I think a lot of the issues (from what I have read) were in ordering the really high volume GW stuff on release, which Wayland were taking pre-orders from, but then not able to fulfil.
I think the main issues people were finding was with their "available" stock status. E.g. not in stock but would get it in "1-3 days" (could have been 3-5).
I've had longer than month-long waits on things in this status from both the Malifaux and spartan games ranges & neither of the items were new releases - Their customer support then just fobbed me off with "it'll be here at the end of the week", from around week 3 onwards.
My experience with them was definitely flavoured due to gak going down irl, but shortly after I'd seen their "representatives" posting on this forum and basically being very rude to people in a very tom kirby-esque fashion.
TLDR - Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
So just had the warlord games news letter saying there will be special offers sent out to news letter subscribers. Will be keeping an eye out although will pick up it from a discount retailer online.
Unless they pull something good out of the bag.
I will be interested to see what we get through the news letter. I am interested in some good platic us and british paras, but we will see as their plasic us infantry have ginormous heads with tiny bodies.
Maniac_nmt wrote: I will be interested to see what we get through the news letter. I am interested in some good platic us and british paras, but we will see as their plasic us infantry have ginormous heads with tiny bodies.
They do but to be fair they are an older kit now. Started to put some of the newish grenadier models together last night and they are a lot more in proportion. Infact one of the best figure kits I've built in a while.
Maniac_nmt wrote: I will be interested to see what we get through the news letter. I am interested in some good platic us and british paras, but we will see as their plasic us infantry have ginormous heads with tiny bodies.
You know' even in real life the american soldiers seemed to have a big head due to their double helmet a light one a'd a heavy one. So, that's quite realistic
I posted this in the rumors section, but will post again for anyone that missed it
BA 2nd Ed rulebook and starter up for pre-order with special offer for existing customers. General Patton figure comes with orders of the hardback rule book direct from Warlord games. The US Airborne are on the wish list!
I agree, would have preferred a Puma armoured car to the half-track. I have no idea what free infantry to get. I have all the Grenadiers and Soviet troops i'll ever need as it is never too early to start my brits, I guess.
Well, i pesonnaly planned as Market Garden British Paratroopers as a third army... but that'll be later on
I think they didn't give a puma because the poor airborne would've been going to struggle to much with it since it can rely on both recce and 8+. And in so far as this is unlikely to be changed that would be a good explanation why they dropped they're overnumbering halftracks in it.
The changes are Worth a second edition in term of variety but i'm very concerned about officiers allowing more plays than you have units and these harrowing templates... shivers.
Whatever happens i'm waiting for feedbacks before even thinking to clicking on purchase button.
Don't mind not including a Puma since the Germans only made like 100 of them. The 251/10 is a great vehicle to include, as you can transport guys and it has antitank capabilities - plus, if you can easily expand the German force with the Grenadiers or Fallschirmjager starter army sets and won't duplicate the vehicle (Grenadiers Starter Army set has Puma and StuG; Fallschirmjager Starter Army set has 251/1 and StuG)
I too am glad they aren't there, but grand total there were right around 500 of the various 4 marks of Puma's built. The last one with the 7.5cm Pak40 only had about 89 built in the 4 months it was operational before the end of the war. It was pretty much a flop though, the vehicle wasn't built to handle the stresses of that big of a gun.
The 251 was a decent choice and works for me. I think A StuG or Marder would have been cool too.
Looking forward to this set just because I like adding things to my armies. Gotta figure out if I need more Grenadiers or more US Infantry for my Cassino grand battle I want to play in the near future.
I agree wit the marder since the box features dday paratroops. Amongst the troops that took action against them, the most famous must be the atypical 21 pzdivision which was provided with a lot of such '' salvaged'' materials.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: I agree wit the marder since the box features dday paratroops. Amongst the troops that took action against them, the most famous must be the atypical 21 pzdivision which was provided with a lot of such '' salvaged'' materials.
That would be cool, but there's no plastic Marder kit available - and this starter set will be sold in quantities that would make resin production untenable.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: I agree wit the marder since the box features dday paratroops. Amongst the troops that took action against them, the most famous must be the atypical 21 pzdivision which was provided with a lot of such '' salvaged'' materials.
That would be cool, but there's no plastic Marder kit available - and this starter set will be sold in quantities that would make resin production untenable.
I personaly don't blame them about this according to the essence of this tank, but i think that wouldn't hurt to make a ''panzerjager set'' which would include enough component yo create a french tank based one or a Marder.
And yep, the guy with the machete is a rediculous caricature, otherwise the pthers look freaking awesome to me
Quick summary of tweaks and changes. Here's the quote about templates:
"It's as simple as, instead of rolling when you hit with HE, instead of rolling 2d6 and finding out how many hits was caused and then apply, you just place the template to see how many hits was caused, and apply.
So it literally, the placing of the template replaces the roll of the dice.
There is no scattering of the template, nothing like that. So it's very straightforward. If you miss, you miss. You don't worry about where it goes."
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Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: And yep, the guy with the machete is a rediculous caricature, otherwise the pthers look freaking awesome to me
"Armed Transports! Once your squad has piled out of its halftrack, the driver can speed around and unleash a hail of lead at the enemy!"
Oh thank God. So you mean I finally will be able to use my halftracks without having to leave an officer in it to drive it around? Vehicle crews -exist-? Novel concept!
Janwin wrote: "Armed Transports! Once your squad has piled out of its halftrack, the driver can speed around and unleash a hail of lead at the enemy!"
Oh thank God. So you mean I finally will be able to use my halftracks without having to leave an officer in it to drive it around? Vehicle crews -exist-? Novel concept!
I loved leaving in a medic in my M3 halftrack to operate all four machine guns.
Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers
Depends on the vehicle, and how it was operated historically.
The German half-tracks could operate that way historically. The US, not so much.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers
Depends on the vehicle, and how it was operated historically.
The German half-tracks could operate that way historically. The US, not so much.
Well you basically repeated in a clearer way what is said . But i do think having a heavy machine gun pintle monted was interesting enough to have one of the crew doing it even if, of course, US, USSR, and british tactics didn't really bother with it.
Anyway, has anyone heard about the new German army book? They told it to be reprinted in 2.0 alongside the rulebook but i doubt there's been any further info about it.
Because I put one pin on it and it's out for the rest of the game?
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Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers
They're about the only ones whose halftracks did that. I wish it was more of a German special rule. US halftracks would retire immediately.
Well, i totally agree to regard and shift it into a german rule. But bereaving it to ohters, in a sens is quite unfair as a matter of ruleset, and lets face it, the case in which the halftrack would serv as fire vehicule even from time to time, justifies it.
To sum all whats been said and what i think, its a good rule upgrade while historically, if not 100 percent true, at least easily defendable enough to remain.
Thus that aint like if their werent propoganda film outnumbering soviet conscript as a special rule to USSR, and the fact that such a joke exists in the game is large enough to compensate and justify minor off track rules
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: Well you basically repeated in a clearer way what is said . But i do think having a heavy machine gun pintle monted was interesting enough to have one of the crew doing it even if, of course, US, USSR, and british tactics didn't really bother with it.
For the US, at least, that's the problem - there was no crew to operate it. The squad mounted in the back provided the gunner. I'm guessing that the British and the Soviets did the same, though I don't know for certain.
Apparently it's seen as the worst form of cheese among some in the Bolt Action community. Post a list with veteran troops and an inexp mortar on the WLG forums and they will flip out. I even read a post where someone said that rules exploit ruined the game for them.
But yes, I am excited too! I am glad they are toning down flamers and HE while buffing machine guns.
Apparently it's seen as the worst form of cheese among some in the Bolt Action community. Post a list with veteran troops and an inexp mortar on the WLG forums and they will flip out. I even read a post where someone said that rules exploit ruined the game for them.
But yes, I am excited too! I am glad they are toning down flamers and HE while buffing machine guns.
Well, an Inexperienced Mortar is easier to pin.... But you can just take a FO, plonk them in some nice heavy cover at the back of the board with LOS to everything and shoot the hell out of your opponent. Nah, Experienced/Veteran mortars are more of a fluff thing.
Apparently it's seen as the worst form of cheese among some in the Bolt Action community. Post a list with veteran troops and an inexp mortar on the WLG forums and they will flip out. I even read a post where someone said that rules exploit ruined the game for them.
But yes, I am excited too! I am glad they are toning down flamers and HE while buffing machine guns.
Well, an Inexperienced Mortar is easier to pin.... But you can just take a FO, plonk them in some nice heavy cover at the back of the board with LOS to everything and shoot the hell out of your opponent. Nah, Experienced/Veteran mortars are more of a fluff thing.
Not only easier to pin but easier to kill. I've never seen the point to take Inexperienced mortars, unless your list is themed as inexperienced. Usually if one thing shoots them, they're dead or pinned for the rest of the game.
A Veteran mortar team is twice as survivable versus inexperienced (5+ versus 3+ to kill) and can take three pins before they become as ineffective at activating as an Inexperience mortar team with one pin. These two facts alone make them worth the points over an inexperienced team, and when you NEED smoke to be placed to cover your advance _or_ they have zero'ed in on an antitank gun or artillery position, you DO NOT want your mortar team to not activate.
Yeah, which is why I think some people's reactions to them can be a bit... extreme. I prefer regular mortars because they are a good value. Veteran mortars feel like a waste of points, at least to me, because they are paying for durability they aren't going to use often. But I could see the appeal to some especially for those who play in a meta with a lot of outflankers.
Though, with the upcoming changes to HE, are mortars going to be the auto-include they are today? I mean, we'll have to see how it is handled but this does seem like a big nerf. But it does make me reconsider the ability of mortars to lay smoke....
TheCustomLime wrote: Yeah, which is why I think some people's reactions to them can be a bit... extreme. I prefer regular mortars because they are a good value. Veteran mortars feel like a waste of points, at least to me, because they are paying for durability they aren't going to use often. But I could see the appeal to some especially for those who play in a meta with a lot of outflankers.
Though, with the upcoming changes to HE, are mortars going to be the auto-include they are today? I mean, we'll have to see how it is handled but this does seem like a big nerf. But it does make me reconsider the ability of mortars to lay smoke....
Smoke is where they excel at - but indirect onto units clumped up behind cover is going to change their dynamic very little, I think.
I use vet mortars where appropriate. All FJ list is all veterans regardless. Polish, all regulars. etc.
TheCustomLime wrote: Yeah, which is why I think some people's reactions to them can be a bit... extreme. I prefer regular mortars because they are a good value. Veteran mortars feel like a waste of points, at least to me, because they are paying for durability they aren't going to use often. But I could see the appeal to some especially for those who play in a meta with a lot of outflankers.
Though, with the upcoming changes to HE, are mortars going to be the auto-include they are today? I mean, we'll have to see how it is handled but this does seem like a big nerf. But it does make me reconsider the ability of mortars to lay smoke....
Smoke is where they excel at - but indirect onto units clumped up behind cover is going to change their dynamic very little, I think.
I use vet mortars where appropriate. All FJ list is all veterans regardless. Polish, all regulars. etc.
Ah yes, Smoke. So many people laugh at it, but it is really useful.
Anecdotally, last night I saw a US MMG team fire at and wipe out an inexperienced SS mortar team because they were so easy to kill Three hits and three wounds. Those brand new SS didn't know to duck when an MG fires at them
Has anyone gotten the new rules in hand yet? I just picked up a Japanese starter set and was wondering how exactly to kit them out with the new rules. I know the prices didnt change but was curious how their knee mortars were affected before I build a squad of them.
I'm also dying to know what they did to fix up MG's since I've got several LMG's and MMG's spread out across my 4 armies. I'm going to run them no matter how "bad" they are (running anything but Jap or Soviet infantry without LMG's just feels wrong honestly, and even there only in certain situations) but it'd be nice to know exactly how they've changed. Especially for my Germans, since I've got 2 MMG's and something like 6 LMG teams.
Of course I'm kind of weird in that I prefer to only take things that make sense at a 6x4 scale. I don't like taking anything heavier than a light mortar artillery wise unless it's something that tended to be used directly. I tend to stick to lighter tanks/assault guns, and rely more heavily on man portable weapons like Bazookas, AT rifles, Panzerfausts, and satchels for AT work, etc. I think the heaviest gun I own is a PaK 40, and even felt thats a bit large at this scale.
Thankfully Bolt Action works pretty well even when I'm sticking to certain rules like that so it's never been an issue, but it would be nice to know I can actually rely on my MG's for infantry work gameplaywise.
I dont think any rules have been released yet. I am more anxious to learn what the effects of basing is going to be with templates. Are we allowed to use bigger scenic bases which then spread guys out or will the blast templates automatically hit everyone on a base? What if guys dont fit on the issued base?
Theorically no one should have a new ruleset since 2nd is to be release around fall. For now that's pre order but you still gotta wait. The Nips are on added to the russkis, the brits, the US and the krauts in the core rulebook though so you don't need a separate book anymore!
As far as knee mortar that must count as a light mortar.
From the videos and pictures released, HEd2 = 1", HEd3 = 2", HEd6 = 3", HE 2d6 = 4". Diameters, not radius. BUT i'm not 100% sure, DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER
But Warlord is playing their cards close to their chest. Launch Date is September 17 so we have less than four weeks til we know all the changes anyway.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: The Nips are on added to the russkis, the brits, the US and the krauts in the core rulebook though so you don't need a separate book anymore
Well, if you want more than the "starter" army list with like 4 pages of stuff, then yeah, you'd want their army book.
AFAIK the "starter" lists in the book will include all units that are in any of the 1000 point starter sets, so that people can buy a starter army, dice, and the rulebook and get playing.
May not be a rules thread, but since this is an edition, it'd be silly if they didn't update an issue, even if it's debatable how severe that issue is.
Did anyone see any confirmation on how they were making MMGs worth while?
Also, how many of these changes have been folded into Konflict 47? Or is that a separate book that refers back to Bolt Action?
Definitely like the changes to officers though, that was much needed.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: The Nips are on added to the russkis, the brits, the US and the krauts in the core rulebook though so you don't need a separate book anymore
Well, if you want more than the "starter" army list with like 4 pages of stuff, then yeah, you'd want their army book.
AFAIK the "starter" lists in the book will include all units that are in any of the 1000 point starter sets, so that people can buy a starter army, dice, and the rulebook and get playing.
Well, i admit that in my opinion they're basically enough to play the game very well. Books are just a little add which real interest is to play something esle than 1944-45. Or to get even more special rules but the aim is then less positive.
Templates' sizes should be good if it reveals to be true.
Finally, i doubt the officiers' changes are of any use. Basically apart from giving soviets virtually an even more outnumbering army, that's no great deal. Gonna shake tactics up nevrthless.
Finally i won't say you guys are wrong on this point: the mortar issue is real. But if there's enough complaining i fancy they are not to leave it unchanged.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: The Nips are on added to the russkis, the brits, the US and the krauts in the core rulebook though so you don't need a separate book anymore
Well, if you want more than the "starter" army list with like 4 pages of stuff, then yeah, you'd want their army book.
AFAIK the "starter" lists in the book will include all units that are in any of the 1000 point starter sets, so that people can buy a starter army, dice, and the rulebook and get playing.
Well, i admit that in my opinion they're basically enough to play the game very well. Books are just a little add which real interest is to play something esle than 1944-45. Or to get even more special rules but the aim is then less positive.
Templates' sizes should be good if it reveals to be true.
Finally, i doubt the officiers' changes are of any use. Basically apart from giving soviets virtually an even more outnumbering army, that's no great deal. Gonna shake tactics up nevrthless.
Finally i won't say you guys are wrong on this point: the mortar issue is real. But if there's enough complaining i fancy they are not to leave it unchanged.
You say that, but being able to guarantee several units activating at once will be a huge deal for an army that is built to take advantage of it. That's always been an issue with Bolt Action though, because you never really know who's going to move next. Having a guaranteed "I can move X units at once when I absolutely need to" could give you the ability to really swing hard in a turn. For example, running a transport up, guaranteeing you get the next order to kick the infantry up and move them to cover, and then guaranteeing a final order to drop smoke on the transport to ensure its safety till next turn.
Though it will fix the fact we're not certain at all who will play next i'm still concerned about the soviets and there free squad: they have a huge advantage and are going to gain the one of an army virtually even pore overhelming! As USA, brits and so on you're gonna match but i dread that the poor german army could have issues with making a real profit of it then.
WARNING: SO AS NOT TO GET SHOT BY HALF THE COMMUNITY AND HAVE THE THREAD END UP AS A RULE DISCUSSION I EXPLAIN HERE THE ISSUE ENCOUNTERED BY GERMANY ESPECIALLY AGAINST SOVIETS IMO, FOR MATTERS OF UNDERSTANDING. THANKS.
germany is either too costy in equipement and tanks or totally lacking the quality to match the soviet list which prices are more profitable according to ground efficacity, thus they virtually have no special rules.
The free soviet units gives the opportunity to definitly outnumber roughly 600 points at 500 your foe in little games. In larger and in general, since that's a big squad they somewhat fill you needs in infantry (added to the basic army chart) for free allowing you to put roughly 100 points of support units while germany still struggles to bring both on the table.
That said, i'd be a great chance if germany got a rule improving this officier bonus. Make it powerful and they should already feel better.
Looks like the changes as seen in this demo game consist of
LMG = 4 shots (now 36" instead of 30")
MMG = 5 shots
HMG = not mentioned
Down order = -2 to hit (instead of -1)
No more shaped charge rule -1 to hit rule.
18" range for assault rifle (instead of 24")
Captain and Major give their morale boost to a range up to 12" (instead of 6")
1st or 2nd LT still 6" range
Captain and Major can order two other units to ‘’act’’ at the same time. For example, you pick from the pouch an order dice, choose to activate the Captain, then you take 2 order dice from the pouch and give order to two units (who didn’t activate) within 12".
1st and 2nd LT, same as Captain or Major but 1 order dice within 6".
Transports can fire one weapon system even when empty.
Vehicle and infantry flamethrowers need to hit first (ignore cover) modifiers. Vehicle flamethrowers officially 12" range.
Air Observer - incoming air support - if the airplane receives 3 or more hits while coming to its target, the airstrike is over and done with (3 shots, instead of 5, to drive airplane away)
Artillery Observer - when rolling 1 on the chart to see if it comes or not, now you scatter 3D6" so you see where it lands (instead of opponent choosing anywhere within 24")
Dense/area terrain - cannot see from one side to another
If you roll double 1 on a command check, you can remove D6 pins.
I'm reassured about officer activation: you basiclly do not overplay units multiple times. And the LMG is sweet too. If they don't make it too much costy.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: I'm reassured about officer activation: you basiclly do not overplay units multiple times. And the LMG is sweet too. If they don't make it too much costy.
Though it will fix the fact we're not certain at all who will play next i'm still concerned about the soviets and there free squad: they have a huge advantage and are going to gain the one of an army virtually even pore overhelming! As USA, brits and so on you're gonna match but i dread that the poor german army could have issues with making a real profit of it then.
WARNING: SO AS NOT TO GET SHOT BY HALF THE COMMUNITY AND HAVE THE THREAD END UP AS A RULE DISCUSSION I EXPLAIN HERE THE ISSUE ENCOUNTERED BY GERMANY ESPECIALLY AGAINST SOVIETS IMO, FOR MATTERS OF UNDERSTANDING. THANKS.
germany is either too costy in equipement and tanks or totally lacking the quality to match the soviet list which prices are more profitable according to ground efficacity, thus they virtually have no special rules.
The free soviet units gives the opportunity to definitly outnumber roughly 600 points at 500 your foe in little games. In larger and in general, since that's a big squad they somewhat fill you needs in infantry (added to the basic army chart) for free allowing you to put roughly 100 points of support units while germany still struggles to bring both on the table.
That said, i'd be a great chance if germany got a rule improving this officier bonus. Make it powerful and they should already feel better.
The free infantry soviets get is a basic inexperienced rifle squad. They don't even have access to an LMG. While they can be nice to baby sit an objective, they're not really a game changer as they need to be watched over by a commissar or officer. The free SU 76 or Zis 3 are recommended for campaign games. As far as I know you need your opponent's permission to do that, and they are not considered "tourny legal".
As for equipment, German equipment costs more because it's more effective, and as far as I'm concerned, may as well be considered their special rules. Assault rifles, even with only 18", are an excellent value, and Panzerfausts are even more amazing with the fact that shaped charge doesn't affect their accuracy anymore. Panzerfausts combined with AR's and their leadership rules mean Germans are nasty on the attack and will help them quite a bit. Plus, the German book is being reprinted, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some new national rules or something to give them a bit of a boost.
As far as rule changes are concerned, all of them are very welcome and needed changes, I'm just still on the fence about LMG's and MMG's. That doesn't feel like enough of a bonus to justify their cost and, more importantly, needing two men to fire them. Granted, Germans effectively are packing MMG's in their rifle squads now, but it's still not the big change we were hoping for. I really feel like they needed to go up 2 dice a weapon (so LMG base 5, MMG base 6) to really have made them worth their points.
Oh well, I'll still run them as I'll usually be providing both armies and can balance it, but you'll still be seeing tourny minded players leaving their LMG's and MMG's at home.
36" 4 shots at 40 points (2 men and LMG) is so good I cannot see why anyone would take 4 dudes with rifles over them.
- Being able to reliably put pins into not only the enemy's deployment zone but also deep into their deployment zone on turn 1 is absolutely fabulous.
- In scenarios where you have to move on board, you can hit units that ran onto the board when you advance. It is an absolutely tremendous game changer.
- 18" short range coming from a squad means down and in cover units at a fairly lengthy distance you will reliably be able to pin and kill with volume of fire, without it reaching impossible shots.
FOR TWENTY POINTS!
I honestly think they may have overpowered LMGs. They literally might be the best weapon in the game now.
The national rules change for Germans has been confirmed on the BA site, but I haven't heard exactly what they have been changed to. Might make light machines guns well worth taking. I often bring an FJ squad built for squad fire support with just two LMGs and a sgt with a rifle. They will be able to put out a drek load of fire now.
Eh, so long as we can now compete with certain 'free unit' armies (looking at you, Soviet Irregulars SMG unit).
Playing Early to Mid War Germans is a bit if an issue as you lack access to AR's and Panzerfaust, so you have none of the advantages that make the later war German force competitive.
master of ordinance wrote: Eh, so long as we can now compete with certain 'free unit' armies (looking at you, Soviet Irregulars SMG unit).
Playing Early to Mid War Germans is a bit if an issue as you lack access to AR's and Panzerfaust, so you have none of the advantages that make the later war German force competitive.
Well now we got 36" 5 dice LMGs with which to mow down unsuspecting Russians in 1941 with.
And late war Germans now only have 18" Assault Rifles.
(also, the free Soviet unit is an Inexperienced Rifle Squad - aka about as useful as just a free order dice, as they tend to disappear rather quickly unless you babysit them )
Thanks, I forgot how many shots I actually got. My Casino FJs are going to be rocking the place on the defense. It might actually be possible to put together an actual machine gun company worthy of the name. I will have to look and see if my book on them actually does the TOE of a Machine Gun Regiment.
master of ordinance wrote:Eh, so long as we can now compete with certain 'free unit' armies (looking at you, Soviet Irregulars SMG unit).
Playing Early to Mid War Germans is a bit if an issue as you lack access to AR's and Panzerfaust, so you have none of the advantages that make the later war German force competitive.
Soviets don't get a free SMG unit. Again, it is an inexperienced rifle squad. No LMG's, no SMG's, just rifles. I think you get AT grenades and that's it. That won't change going into V2 more than likely since that special rule is in the soviet book as well (which I have and can quote verbatim in about 5 hours if you really want me to).
Soviets do not get any of the following for free
-SMG infantry
-AT guns
-tanks
-Assault guns
-anything other than a rifle squad
It was a recommended homebrew rule for campaigns. Nothing else.
You do have a point about EW Germans however, I believe their new rules (if they get any) will reflect that better. I know in K47 they have a new rule where they get a bonus to their order test if it involves moving toward the enemy (I.E. counterattacking, something the Germans were well known for even in the closing days of the war) I wouldn't be surprised to see that rule show up in BA V2.
judgedoug wrote:36" 4 shots at 40 points (2 men and LMG) is so good I cannot see why anyone would take 4 dudes with rifles over them.
- Being able to reliably put pins into not only the enemy's deployment zone but also deep into their deployment zone on turn 1 is absolutely fabulous.
- In scenarios where you have to move on board, you can hit units that ran onto the board when you advance. It is an absolutely tremendous game changer.
- 18" short range coming from a squad means down and in cover units at a fairly lengthy distance you will reliably be able to pin and kill with volume of fire, without it reaching impossible shots.
FOR TWENTY POINTS!
I honestly think they may have overpowered LMGs. They literally might be the best weapon in the game now.
I am turning into Peregrine, may Andy rest my soul.
-4 shots at 40 points
I can do that with 4 rifle men already, granted for 12" less range, but on a properly made table chances to use that long range will be relatively few.
-- In scenarios where you have to move on board, you can hit units that ran onto the board when you advance. It is an absolutely tremendous game changer.
In this scenario, at an absolutely base value, you're hitting on 5's (long range, moving) not to mention cover (bumping that up to 6's). Now, this is also ignoring ADDITIONAL modifiers, such as small team, hard cover (which I believe obscures better now with a higher penalty to hit) smoke, and/or going to ground.
I mean, shooting to hit at 6's is pretty common in Bolt Action, but I'm not floored.
The big thing that will make me decide whether they're fair or not is the German "Hitler's Buzzsaw" rule and if it changes. Because several German squads could take 2 LMG's, if they get anything on top of one extra die per LMG, a German rifle squad with 2 LMG's could have an absolutely insane amount of firepower.
I'm just not sold. I really felt like LMG"s base needed a buff of two dice (making an LMG base 5 dice) with MMG's being buffed to 6 or 7. I get why they didn't buff MMG's that high (vehicles packing MGs would be pretty nuts) but at least infantry MMG's needed something to make them more scary. Realistically an MMG unit that's well dug in should be an absolutely terrifying thing to see across the table, but as they sit in the game right now, they don't really scare much. Worst case scenario you'll maybe lose half the squad, and take only ONE PIN. One pin, from one of the most terrifying weapons to face as an infantryman. Why they don't have a way to generate extra pins, at least for dedicated MMG teams, really confuses me. Without it, there really isn't any reason to take them instead of something else.
At first hitler's buzzsaw should apply to vehicules too in my opinion but i can ubderstand a panzer 4 with 3 of them would be a pain to cope with.
Initiative training at 2+ is reasonnable. Let's face it a chance out of two to just save the commander is basically useless.
Finally i like the idea of counter attack rule: not only would it probably powerful but what's more unlike the free soviet squad it would be realistic.
I can understand the hull mounted and co-axial 34 not having the extra dice since the 34 wasn't quite the bullet hose the 42 was. But the pintle mounted MG42 should definitely have it.
TheCustomLime wrote: I can understand the hull mounted and co-axial 34 not having the extra dice since the 34 wasn't quite the bullet hose the 42 was. But the pintle mounted MG42 should definitely have it.
Well a 1200 shot/minute aircolled mg barely reaches half of it, so actually the difference is small: the mg42 was fearsome, but it was reduced to short bursts to avoid overheating. . What's more even witht the well stabilized tripod, such a fire rate wouldn't allow for much accurency and i jut let you imagine the ammo bill by the end of the week!
But you don't want accuracy with a tripod mounted MG...
Its mounted on a tripod to allow it to easily cover selected lanes of fire and to easily hose those areas with fire. Several of these will be sighted to provide interlocking fields of fire. During enemy attacks fire would be laid down along those lanes of approach, in bursts of fire.
Its the same reason troops used to loosen the bipod on the Bren gun - To reduce accuracy and allow the weapon to provide a larger 'beaten' zone.
Big P wrote: But you don't want accuracy with a tripod mounted MG...
Its mounted on a tripod to allow it to easily cover selected lanes of fire and to easily hose those areas with fire. Several of these will be sighted to provide interlocking fields of fire. During enemy attacks fire would be laid down along those lanes of approach, in bursts of fire.
Its the same reason troops used to loosen the bipod on the Bren gun - To reduce accuracy and allow the weapon to provide a larger 'beaten' zone.
judgedoug wrote:36" 4 shots at 40 points (2 men and LMG) is so good I cannot see why anyone would take 4 dudes with rifles over them.
- Being able to reliably put pins into not only the enemy's deployment zone but also deep into their deployment zone on turn 1 is absolutely fabulous.
- In scenarios where you have to move on board, you can hit units that ran onto the board when you advance. It is an absolutely tremendous game changer.
- 18" short range coming from a squad means down and in cover units at a fairly lengthy distance you will reliably be able to pin and kill with volume of fire, without it reaching impossible shots.
FOR TWENTY POINTS!
I honestly think they may have overpowered LMGs. They literally might be the best weapon in the game now.
I am turning into Peregrine, may Andy rest my soul.
-4 shots at 40 points
I can do that with 4 rifle men already, granted for 12" less range, but on a properly made table chances to use that long range will be relatively few.
-- In scenarios where you have to move on board, you can hit units that ran onto the board when you advance. It is an absolutely tremendous game changer.
In this scenario, at an absolutely base value, you're hitting on 5's (long range, moving) not to mention cover (bumping that up to 6's). Now, this is also ignoring ADDITIONAL modifiers, such as small team, hard cover (which I believe obscures better now with a higher penalty to hit) smoke, and/or going to ground.
I mean, shooting to hit at 6's is pretty common in Bolt Action, but I'm not floored.
If I can reach across the table on turn 1 and pin you on 6's, I will take it. From turn 1 I'll be able to control your movement. That is just scary scary good to me, for only a 20 point weapon.
And your recitation of modifiers for long range, cover, etc, is all very true - and LMG short range is now 18 inches. Eighteen inches! The vast majority of firefights in Bolt Action take place at roughly that range band - LMG's being at short range will almost certainly mean hitting on 4's and 5's at eighteen inches!
I mean, I'm literally not seeing any negatives. For 40 points I'd much rather have two guys spitting 4 dice at 18/36" than four guys spitting 4 dice at 12/24". Controlling movement and your opponent is vital. The ability to put one or two pins on units before they themselves are within range is so good because now you're forcing your opponent to 50% chance or less of their unit even activating.
And as mentioned, two-LMG Fallschirmjager squads are absolutely insane. NCO w/ SMG, two loaders with rifle, and two LMG, veterans, are, what, 108 points? 10 shots at 36" on five veteran men who can even hold their own in a close assault.
TheCustomLime wrote: I can understand the hull mounted and co-axial 34 not having the extra dice since the 34 wasn't quite the bullet hose the 42 was. But the pintle mounted MG42 should definitely have it.
Well a 1200 shot/minute aircolled mg barely reaches half of it, so actually the difference is small: the mg42 was fearsome, but it was reduced to short bursts to avoid overheating. . What's more even witht the well stabilized tripod, such a fire rate wouldn't allow for much accurency and i jut let you imagine the ammo bill by the end of the week!
The principle behind the MG42 is that the Germans believed a machine gunner only had a few seconds of opportunity to fire so it was best to fill the air with as much lead as possible during those short bursts.
And yes, ammo was always a concern with squads carrying one. It's why you see a lot of late war soldiers laden with Machine gun ammo belts like a mule.
TheCustomLime wrote: I can understand the hull mounted and co-axial 34 not having the extra dice since the 34 wasn't quite the bullet hose the 42 was. But the pintle mounted MG42 should definitely have it.
Well a 1200 shot/minute aircolled mg barely reaches half of it, so actually the difference is small: the mg42 was fearsome, but it was reduced to short bursts to avoid overheating. . What's more even witht the well stabilized tripod, such a fire rate wouldn't allow for much accurency and i jut let you imagine the ammo bill by the end of the week!
The principle behind the MG42 is that the Germans believed a machine gunner only had a few seconds of opportunity to fire so it was best to fill the air with as much lead as possible during those short bursts.
And yes, ammo was always a concern with squads carrying one. It's why you see a lot of late war soldiers laden with Machine gun ammo belts like a mule.
Well, if i remember well the purpose for the MG42 machine gun was basically to be tougher tahn it's fragile elder, hence a worse quality in terms of details. However they also managed to produce a great weapon in as far as fire rate in they same time. But afterwards the german mavhine gun doctrine didn't change: it kept playing the suppression and zone denying role in infantry support as did the 34. At the platoon scale, they were supposed to force the enemy down while the infantrymen progressed or to prevent them from getting outflanked. Obviously area denial was also their defensive purpose.
But i suggest that we either open a new thread or stop there before we have once again the discussins jumping off its tracks, and i head this way.
Since they got rid of shaped charge, how likely is the bazookas, panzerschreck/faust to endure a rise in points?
ON Panzerfausts, bazookas, et all, odds are no. Only the German book is being redone and as Soviets can take Panzerfausts as well, all signs point to no as not all would be adjusted points wise.
Honestly they took it out to make them more balanced (as in making them better)
Hitting a target with shaped charge weapons was a nightmare in V1. Your base hit mod was essentially a +4 before things like range and cover even mattered. Taking away Shaped charge's penalty helps make these weapons far more viable and hopefully give German players a reason to finally use all those Panzerfaust models Warlord keeps making, because man does Warlord love giving their metal infantry panzerfausts.
Vertrucio wrote:Noticed one of the additions was terrain that actually blocks line of sight. That'll be a change.
What do you mean?
MrMoustaffa wrote:ON Panzerfausts, bazookas, et all, odds are no. Only the German book is being redone and as Soviets can take Panzerfausts as well, all signs point to no as not all would be adjusted points wise.
Honestly they took it out to make them more balanced (as in making them better)
Hitting a target with shaped charge weapons was a nightmare in V1. Your base hit mod was essentially a +4 before things like range and cover even mattered. Taking away Shaped charge's penalty helps make these weapons far more viable and hopefully give German players a reason to finally use all those Panzerfaust models Warlord keeps making, because man does Warlord love giving their metal infantry panzerfausts.
I agree with you. I only used my panzerfausts once and they failed at point blank because... 3+ (yeah double 2 ) That's exceptionally unlucky but in reality the bazooka was quite useless too for the same reason: you had at least 5+ in 3 cases out of 4...
MrMoustaffa wrote: ON Panzerfausts, bazookas, et all, odds are no. Only the German book is being redone and as Soviets can take Panzerfausts as well, all signs point to no as not all would be adjusted points wise.
Honestly they took it out to make them more balanced (as in making them better)
Hitting a target with shaped charge weapons was a nightmare in V1. Your base hit mod was essentially a +4 before things like range and cover even mattered. Taking away Shaped charge's penalty helps make these weapons far more viable and hopefully give German players a reason to finally use all those Panzerfaust models Warlord keeps making, because man does Warlord love giving their metal infantry panzerfausts.
Not even Russian metal infantry are safe from the nazi death tubes.
Vertrucio wrote:Noticed one of the additions was terrain that actually blocks line of sight. That'll be a change.
What do you mean?
It appears a new classification of terrain, area/dense terrain, that allows LOS from inside to outside, and outside to inside, but not from outside across to the other side. Previously that would have been just a cover modification.
Seems like examples would include dense building rubble or heavily forested wood areas.
Vertrucio wrote:Noticed one of the additions was terrain that actually blocks line of sight. That'll be a change.
What do you mean?
It appears a new classification of terrain, area/dense terrain, that allows LOS from inside to outside, and outside to inside, but not from outside across to the other side. Previously that would have been just a cover modification.
Seems like examples would include dense building rubble or heavily forested wood areas.
I see. Well, it's somewhat better, but this might make the game a bit more complicated unless they very clearly definit the satats of each kind.
.
) That's exceptionally unlucky but in reality the bazooka was quite useless too for the same reason: you had at least 5+ in 3 cases out of 4...