The only restriction is that it can't be anything done before or anything referenced in fluff. No Jorgali, no Hrud, nothing like that.
I would personally create a human republic. A republic formed after the age of strife, with no influences from the Imperium. It uses a lot of mech-y stuff, like walkers, exo-suits and bionics. Mostly infantry based. Think a more elite Imperial Guard, with augmentations and mechs.
I'd go with something like the traditional alien 'greys' and try to keep it in line with the tongue in cheek parody-taken-too-seriously style I enjoyed from GW when I first started playing.
Greys as the HQs, who can't do much in a fight but offer lots of utility and synergy to the army.
The rest of their army would then be robots. Not mechanicum robot *bodies* and not necron Egyptians in metal bodies, but entirely non-humanoid, non-sentient robots. Things like the war of the worlds tripods but scaled down to be a pack of attack dogs as a grey sitting in a floating chair directs them.
The Final Empire: The descendants of total mutual destruction that destroyed the Imperium and forces of Chaos survive on the Eastern Fringes of the galaxy, or what's left of it. They're mostly Tau junkers who remained unaffected by the Warp Storms that snuffed out the stars, and managed to assimilate technologies from the ruins of Eldar, Necron, and human ruins. They proceeded to expand across the galaxy mostly unchallenged with the exception of the occasional Ork or Tyranid force.
Unsatisfied with their total and complete victory, they send their leaders back in time to preach the Greater Good. This changed their history and, on the brink of extinction at the hands of the Imperium of Man, a massive force that combines the reality warping tech of the Necrons, the psychic weapons of the Eldar, and the raw firepower of the Imperium appears in the material world, having made a jump through time to stop the galaxy from annihilating the Tau and preventing the Greater Good from coming to pass.
So, advanced Tau that's got the cheese of Eldar, the WTF of Necrons and the grimdark of Imperium appears from the future to shake things up, and they're just as arrogant as all of them.
Psyker Tau and Tau with close combat ability? Yes please!
I have this old idea of a alien race that focus on chemical and plasma technology. To many already humen or humenish races already, where are the aliens beside tyranid?
Everything in their tech is resolved be cemecals that they put into their own body and then release again after a modification.
They looks like a balloon with tentacles hanging down. Proberly 8 or so that they also use to handle weapons and other stuff.
Their guns are made of fluids that are formed into biology designs by hardening the fluids.
Their walkers should be animals that they ride with platforms and ordinary walkers with 3 legs with huge plasma weapons.
perhaps some heavy weapon platform that can "throw" small units up the table
Some of them have access to psyonic powers, that marks them to be difference that the rest of em. They will be HQ
The motivation for them is to break the "walls of the universe"
1st wall was the water surfice.
2nd wall was the space
3rd wall was the ability to enter the 5th dimension (fast space travel that is not the warp)
and they are still looking for the 4th wall whatever that might be.
They also in the beginning wished to be left alone, now they wish to befriend the universe, but learned the hard way that only was can bring them forward.
They wish to create a furture where all can live in pease with one another (yeah I know, they are way to optimistic that way) for their religion that is "For the light!"
A human civiisation that employed AI to their detriment and effectively becoming enslaved to their AI overlord. Like skitarii but more varied cyborgs being AI run they have no Psychic resonance so are effectively ignored by chaos. Could also have an abundance of pariah types.
A tripod-legged race bent on purification of the galaxy. Each individual would be strong but they would be few in numbers. Their only goal is to erdicate everything thats not logical.
While it is essentially mentioned in fluff, I'd like to see a pirate/mercenary/outer fringes kind of army. A mix of skiffs, jetbikes, cavalry mounted on alien mounts, various races - raiders, kit-bashed vehicles. Put their strength in speed, and asymmetric combat (booby traps, ambushes, impacting opponents reserve rolls etc.).
Use Ogryns/Kroot/etc. Even a sneaky way to bring back some Squats. Perhaps introduce outer fringe barons, Rogue Traders etc.
Elbows wrote: While it is essentially mentioned in fluff, I'd like to see a pirate/mercenary/outer fringes kind of army. A mix of skiffs, jetbikes, cavalry mounted on alien mounts, various races - raiders, kit-bashed vehicles. Put their strength in speed, and asymmetric combat (booby traps, ambushes, impacting opponents reserve rolls etc.).
Use Ogryns/Kroot/etc. Even a sneaky way to bring back some Squats. Perhaps introduce outer fringe barons, Rogue Traders etc.
Mad Max meets Jawas.
You had my attention at "Pirates" and sold me at "Mad max"
I always felt the skaven would just be a small hop to be 40ked. Or any beasties in that theme would be sweet. Shaven would in my mind be a mix of ork and ad mech. Crazy guns with scrounged rides. All that said there are plenty of fluff races that I would love to see. Hrud, Bragassie. Dog soldier mercs. The Brb has some xenos art in it that I think is awesome.
A race who is only consciousness.
They have no models and can not attack.
They have no locality.
They can take over the minds of other races and utilize the enemies models.
okay then i tell them that first i get to kill off another faction entirely. how about we kill off the eldar, have them eaten by the tyranids or something yea id like that
ionusx wrote: okay then i tell them that first i get to kill off another faction entirely. how about we kill off the eldar, have them eaten by the tyranids or something yea id like that
jonolikespie wrote: I'd go with something like the traditional alien 'greys' and try to keep it in line with the tongue in cheek parody-taken-too-seriously style I enjoyed from GW when I first started playing.
Greys as the HQs, who can't do much in a fight but offer lots of utility and synergy to the army.
The rest of their army would then be robots. Not mechanicum robot *bodies* and not necron Egyptians in metal bodies, but entirely non-humanoid, non-sentient robots. Things like the war of the worlds tripods but scaled down to be a pack of attack dogs as a grey sitting in a floating chair directs them.
This makes me think of the aliens from X-COM: Enemy Unknown (still haven't gotten around to buying/playing X-COM 2), which would honestly make for an awesome addition to 40k: a race whose entire civilization is dedicated to creating the "perfect specimen" through a mixture of genetic engineering and technology.
I would actually love to revamp the Tyranids (or make them allies) and put in the aliens from the planet Murder, the crazy titanium spider guys. I think they'd be kickass
I would say a human race in a galaxy that had been cut off by warp storms (great mechanic that) of part man and machine like just before the age of strife, tech just before the "men of iron".
A person is given when born a machine interface and is implanted with an AI "mentor" that is a partner throughout that person's infant life.
Implants and exo-suits for various tasks are a matter of course.
Both the human and AI partner in computational / memory / body / suit function.
At some point there is the coming of age: "fission" when the AI is uploaded from the human host to it's own form to work with the human or move-on if the person dies and becomes an "unpaired" entity. Presumably as the human matures into adulthood they both find another human to bond with to then have human children and an AI is chosen to be uploaded to mentor the child.
This society is utterly without crime due to an actual "bond" of man and machine.
There is a strong theme of binary: 2, pairing, symmetry, cooperation and discussion by polarized debate which is a favored means of competition.
Psychic powers were recognized and the bonded AI would assist with the amplification and dampening of these powers to overwhelm warp predation.
These gifted people move-on to become a form of Navigator and Clairvoyant where many visions seen by the human and witnessed by the AI are stored for processing and "Truth Seeker" task forces are sent out to confirm the portents of the visions.
This would be utterly abhorrent to the Imperium.
They destroyed all probes and ship contact with this civilization and the entire civilization has mobilized for war.
There had been multiple "incidents" of psychic encounters starting with careful curiosity and a vengeful backlash when attacked.
Both human and AI forms can plug into "low consciousness" machines to act like a servitor that vastly improves the responses and efficiency of any device.
Battlesuits, walkers, titans and ships are like a second skin.
Any "lone" human fighter is a "mentor" and would be found to have vastly improved wargear operation.
Any "lone" AI construct form did not have opportunity to mentor a child and so looks at protecting their society as a whole: they will sacrifice themselves quite willingly so are especially dangerous.
Any paired fighters (human and AI with construct body) would work in concert perfectly.
Any group of four would be a "house-hold" of a mated pair of humans and their AI's.
They would be the greatest danger because they intend to have a family and would abide with no threat to their future.
They are unsure if the Imperium can be reasoned with.
Their collective anger is increasing and could become hate in short order which would vastly upscale their war efforts.
They are pragmatic and are already exploring means of colonizing in hidden places since they can adapt to pretty much any environment.
Tau have been encountered and "debate" meets have been setup repeatedly much to the consternation of the Tau: their greater good has had many holes unveiled in these talks.
Orks encountered are destroyed immediately or ran away from... they seem to understand them.
Webway portals are being found and destroyed as a matter of course: both Eldar and Dark Eldar are becoming concerned of the lack of them in this portion of the universe and are trying to defend the few remaining.
Genestealers are killed everywhere they are found, the AI's get exceedingly angry when their human is implanted.
Also, I think the Invid race from Robotech/Macross/MOSPEADA etc. scaled down slightly would be a pretty cool alien race for the 40K world.
Jelly bags sitting in nutrient baths controlling larger mecha. Add some of the sentinels etc. and you could have a cool force. (gears start turning if the Robotech game ever develops the Invid Invasion era...and produces models...)
ionusx wrote: okay then i tell them that first i get to kill off another faction entirely. how about we kill off the eldar, have them eaten by the tyranids or something yea id like that
I think most, if not all, of us would like that
Wow, my level of enthusiasm for this fun thread dropped immensely, and instead of being able to focus on thinking of something cool, I spent too much time trying to think of snarky comments. Thanks for pouring salt here.
Idk, I keep coming back to an elemental-type race like the Genasi in D&D, but I feel like that might infringe on the elementally-named caste system of the Tau.
BossJakadakk wrote: Wow, my level of enthusiasm for this fun thread dropped immensely, and instead of being able to focus on thinking of something cool, I spent too much time trying to think of snarky comments. Thanks for pouring salt here.
I find it particularly easy to shoot down other people's ideas and dreams... it just is easier to do.
I too heavily endorse the lava dolphins.
I think Super Mario had fleshed them out a bit:
ionusx wrote: okay then i tell them that first i get to kill off another faction entirely. how about we kill off the eldar, have them eaten by the tyranids or something yea id like that
I think most, if not all, of us would like that
Wow, my level of enthusiasm for this fun thread dropped immensely, and instead of being able to focus on thinking of something cool, I spent too much time trying to think of snarky comments. Thanks for pouring salt here.
Idk, I keep coming back to an elemental-type race like the Genasi in D&D, but I feel like that might infringe on the elementally-named caste system of the Tau.
Pffft. I would barely qualify that as "throwing salt" especially since it's aimed at GW and not anyone in this thread. Being someone who started 40k playing eldar back in 4e it makes me said to see how much GW has fethed them up. It's like all of ever seen now, IF I see people playing eldar, is the stupid all jet bike 36 scatterlaser army, or the all wraithgaurd/lord/knight armies.
Besides I'm on your team anyway when it comes to what race I want to see. My vote goes to lava dolphins. Those magestic murderers.
Simple I would do what GW always did before.
look at current pop culture and "get inspired" by it and coppy right the hell out of it.
Mad max seems to be a good start. So non imperial human lowlife scrappers it is. That would be fun and all the oldskoolers might even like it since it kinda reminds them of gorka morka.
I would call the mini game featuring them
"Raging Ruins" and make it about scrap racers in a ruined desert city.
It would be fun just leak some vague rumors. Bols etc would go crazy about Revamping dark future or perhaps even Gorka Morka, and the crazy again when you released your second leak that they where all wrong and that it would be even cooler.
An alien race based on spiders? I can't help but either think up humanoid form races, or tyranidesque races. They'd be technoligically adept but able to run swarms also. Maybe even using vehicles to augment their armies. Not an overly aggressive race but vicious when roused or disturbed
Space Pengiuns
Basically their stat line is something like
BS3
WS3
S2
T2
W1
I2
Ld 8
They are mainly a shooting army but their range is a bit short. Their interesting gimmick is that they tend to have good armor on the combat infantry (lots of 3+ and 2+ armor), lots of assault weapons, and they all have hammer of wrath and it hits with improved strength and armor penetration. They all have Slow and Purposeful and move only 3 inches (but aren't slowed by terrain) but they can move 2D6 in the assault phase if they didn't fire a weapon or only fired assault or pistol weapons. Very MSU in nature but they basically have reverse combat squad where they can group together to form bigger units while on the battlefield.
Their visual design is based on World War 1 and 2 technology as they tend to wear a lot of trench coats and have the german style helmets (even some of the ones with the pointy spike on top). Vehicles are mostly shooting focused walkers with low hull points but AV 12 generally. No flyers while their ground transports are low capacity but well protected treaded vehicles. Lots of artillery units but their artillery weapons are T5. Their infantry guns are either some variant on crossbow guns (that fire metal spikes), rocket launchers, heavy machine guns (firing spikes), and flame throwers. The walkers tend to have bigger versions of infantry weapons while their artillery are a mix of traditional mortar/artillery guns with some unusual stuff like their bouncing bombs that are a blast weapon that after the first hit will bounce X number of times using the barrage template flip (but it must always flip each bounce so they can't hit the same spot on two consecutive bounches.
Close combat is generally focused on their HoW hits (they penguin dive into the enemy) then they attack last generally with their low initiative. Melee focused units are armed generally with shields (invuln) and harpoons that they can throw as a shooting attack or stab with in CC. Their big hitting melee weapon is a drill based weapon that is unweildly and AP2 but does multiple wounds and hull points per hit. They also have a very nasty weapon that is basically a small nuke that detonates when making a hammer of wrath attack. It places a blast over top of the user and it deals heavy damage to ALL models in the blast area.
They have psykers who use two unique schools of psychic powers and it generally revolves around one being blessing focused that makes the nearby space penguins to unleash their inner penguin potential while the other school is focused on witchfires including a power involving opening a portal into the warp to pull daemons into the physical realm and then instantly blow them up which potentially telefrags the target while dealing blast damage to nearby models. Also psychically turning a nearby space penguin into a psychic powered bullet that rips apart the enemy as the poor space penguin is sent flying at mach 20.
Space Penguins are insanely xenophopic and supremacist who view all life as inferior to penguin kind. Diplomacy with other races is basically surrender to be slaves or die a horrible death while they burn the atmosphere and laugh while your planets ecosystem turns into a literal hell. They are a monarchy and are structured as a feudal society with different houses and lords serving the space penguin king. While they aren't a collective goal society like the Tau, they do have some fanatical space penguins who will gladly give their own life for space penguin kind while other space penguins are often brave but not immune to the thought of self preservation.
Basically their stat line is something like
BS3
WS3
S2
T2
W1
I2
Ld 8
They are mainly a shooting army but their range is a bit short. Their interesting gimmick is that they tend to have good armor on the combat infantry (lots of 3+ and 2+ armor), lots of assault weapons, and they all have hammer of wrath and it hits with improved strength and armor penetration. They all have Slow and Purposeful and move only 3 inches (but aren't slowed by terrain) but they can move 2D6 in the assault phase if they didn't fire a weapon or only fired assault or pistol weapons. Very MSU in nature but they basically have reverse combat squad where they can group together to form bigger units while on the battlefield.
Their visual design is based on World War 1 and 2 technology as they tend to wear a lot of trench coats and have the german style helmets (even some of the ones with the pointy spike on top). Vehicles are mostly shooting focused walkers with low hull points but AV 12 generally. No flyers while their ground transports are low capacity but well protected treaded vehicles. Lots of artillery units but their artillery weapons are T5. Their infantry guns are either some variant on crossbow guns (that fire metal spikes), rocket launchers, heavy machine guns (firing spikes), and flame throwers. The walkers tend to have bigger versions of infantry weapons while their artillery are a mix of traditional mortar/artillery guns with some unusual stuff like their bouncing bombs that are a blast weapon that after the first hit will bounce X number of times using the barrage template flip (but it must always flip each bounce so they can't hit the same spot on two consecutive bounches.
Close combat is generally focused on their HoW hits (they penguin dive into the enemy) then they attack last generally with their low initiative. Melee focused units are armed generally with shields (invuln) and harpoons that they can throw as a shooting attack or stab with in CC. Their big hitting melee weapon is a drill based weapon that is unweildly and AP2 but does multiple wounds and hull points per hit. They also have a very nasty weapon that is basically a small nuke that detonates when making a hammer of wrath attack. It places a blast over top of the user and it deals heavy damage to ALL models in the blast area.
They have psykers who use two unique schools of psychic powers and it generally revolves around one being blessing focused that makes the nearby space penguins to unleash their inner penguin potential while the other school is focused on witchfires including a power involving opening a portal into the warp to pull daemons into the physical realm and then instantly blow them up which potentially telefrags the target while dealing blast damage to nearby models. Also psychically turning a nearby space penguin into a psychic powered bullet that rips apart the enemy as the poor space penguin is sent flying at mach 20.
Space Penguins are insanely xenophopic and supremacist who view all life as inferior to penguin kind. Diplomacy with other races is basically surrender to be slaves or die a horrible death while they burn the atmosphere and laugh while your planets ecosystem turns into a literal hell. They are a monarchy and are structured as a feudal society with different houses and lords serving the space penguin king. While they aren't a collective goal society like the Tau, they do have some fanatical space penguins who will gladly give their own life for space penguin kind while other space penguins are often brave but not immune to the thought of self preservation.
Elbows wrote: While it is essentially mentioned in fluff, I'd like to see a pirate/mercenary/outer fringes kind of army. A mix of skiffs, jetbikes, cavalry mounted on alien mounts, various races - raiders, kit-bashed vehicles. Put their strength in speed, and asymmetric combat (booby traps, ambushes, impacting opponents reserve rolls etc.).
Use Ogryns/Kroot/etc. Even a sneaky way to bring back some Squats. Perhaps introduce outer fringe barons, Rogue Traders etc.
Mad Max meets Jawas.
Eldar Corsairs are kinda similar to this, except they're all Eldar instead of mixed xenos.
Space Pengiuns
Basically their stat line is something like
BS3
WS3
S2
T2
W1
I2
Ld 8
They are mainly a shooting army but their range is a bit short. Their interesting gimmick is that they tend to have good armor on the combat infantry (lots of 3+ and 2+ armor), lots of assault weapons, and they all have hammer of wrath and it hits with improved strength and armor penetration. They all have Slow and Purposeful and move only 3 inches (but aren't slowed by terrain) but they can move 2D6 in the assault phase if they didn't fire a weapon or only fired assault or pistol weapons. Very MSU in nature but they basically have reverse combat squad where they can group together to form bigger units while on the battlefield.
Their visual design is based on World War 1 and 2 technology as they tend to wear a lot of trench coats and have the german style helmets (even some of the ones with the pointy spike on top). Vehicles are mostly shooting focused walkers with low hull points but AV 12 generally. No flyers while their ground transports are low capacity but well protected treaded vehicles. Lots of artillery units but their artillery weapons are T5. Their infantry guns are either some variant on crossbow guns (that fire metal spikes), rocket launchers, heavy machine guns (firing spikes), and flame throwers. The walkers tend to have bigger versions of infantry weapons while their artillery are a mix of traditional mortar/artillery guns with some unusual stuff like their bouncing bombs that are a blast weapon that after the first hit will bounce X number of times using the barrage template flip (but it must always flip each bounce so they can't hit the same spot on two consecutive bounches.
Close combat is generally focused on their HoW hits (they penguin dive into the enemy) then they attack last generally with their low initiative. Melee focused units are armed generally with shields (invuln) and harpoons that they can throw as a shooting attack or stab with in CC. Their big hitting melee weapon is a drill based weapon that is unweildly and AP2 but does multiple wounds and hull points per hit. They also have a very nasty weapon that is basically a small nuke that detonates when making a hammer of wrath attack. It places a blast over top of the user and it deals heavy damage to ALL models in the blast area.
They have psykers who use two unique schools of psychic powers and it generally revolves around one being blessing focused that makes the nearby space penguins to unleash their inner penguin potential while the other school is focused on witchfires including a power involving opening a portal into the warp to pull daemons into the physical realm and then instantly blow them up which potentially telefrags the target while dealing blast damage to nearby models. Also psychically turning a nearby space penguin into a psychic powered bullet that rips apart the enemy as the poor space penguin is sent flying at mach 20.
Space Penguins are insanely xenophopic and supremacist who view all life as inferior to penguin kind. Diplomacy with other races is basically surrender to be slaves or die a horrible death while they burn the atmosphere and laugh while your planets ecosystem turns into a literal hell. They are a monarchy and are structured as a feudal society with different houses and lords serving the space penguin king. While they aren't a collective goal society like the Tau, they do have some fanatical space penguins who will gladly give their own life for space penguin kind while other space penguins are often brave but not immune to the thought of self preservation
.
What could be neat, especially if they're so slow, is to give them harpoon weapons similar to what Blood Slaughterers have, where they move the target 2D6 towards the Blood Slaughterer and if they end up in base to base, the Slaughterer counts as having charged into combat.
How about bringing lizardmen into 40k- fluffwise they could be an old-one worshipping race that has recovered some of their technology.
So there would be a mix of high tech weapons on elites and more primitive ones too, so that close combat and ranged would be covered.
Aesthetically, i imagine the saurus and skinks to be armoured and shielded in a similar way to halos' elites. I also like the halo energy sword idea, so saurus would have some badass looking energy blades that would be retractable (a bit like in predator). The heavy support? Ever seen dino-riders? How awesome would a cannon armed carnosaur look on the tabletop!
Game play wise, i imagine the army to be quite slow, but have a few very powerful weapons/units, among lots of assaulty infantry. A basic saurus would be something like ws4, bs3, s4, t4, w1, i3, a2, ld8, sv 4+/6+ inv, armed with a short range and rather unstable weapon, and an energy blade that perhaps is ap5?
Please GW!
Ps no mayan/aztec theme
They'd have a wide variety of species among their number, and the squad kits would contain an even amount of males and females.
They would be technologically progressive, and they would consider each soldier's life to be valuable enough to invest in protecting. The normal armor save for infantry in the Codex would be a 4+, with a couple of power armor or heavy power armor Elites or Heavy Support units. Commander models would have a choice of armor.
Every model in the army would have some sort of ranged weapon, with their melee units having a pistol and one melee weapon (can be one-handed or two-handed) each. Their basic Troops unit would be primarily a ranged unit, with a rifle and pistol being standard armament and the squad having the option to include one special and one heavy weapon.
If they had plasma weapons at all, their plasma weapons would take the Tau route of being less powerful, but safer to use, so they'd eschew the Gets Hot! rule in exchange for reduced Strength.
They wouldn't have much ornamentation on their models, and their technology would be designed for practicality, durability and potency rather than impressiveness or fear factor.
Grav-tanks would be something they might have, but it wouldn't be the standard, and most of their vehicles would be wheeled or tracked.
No Cavalry or Beasts at all, their level of technology and preferred way of fighting has eliminated the need to use riding or combat animals.
Their normal statline would be similar to an Imperial Guard Veteran. Dedicated melee units might have a 4 in WS and a 3 in BS instead of the other way around.
Their melee units would also have the option of equipping every model in the unit with a Combat Shield (not a Storm Shield) for an extra points cost per model, though doing so would prevent them from choosing a two-handed melee weapon. Their melee squads would also be required to be equipped identically, perhaps with the squad leader being the only one who can choose to arm himself or herself with something different from the rest of the unit. You could take multiple units and equip those units differently, but each individual unit would use identical equipment for each member of the unit. Make a point of mentioning in the Army List section in the Codex that all models in the unit except the Sergeant must choose the same equipment. Provide enough bitz in their kit to accommodate this. No gosh-darned wound allocation shenanigans if they decide to bring the possibility back in the future.
Edit: Let's be honest here. If GW decided to hire me, a 27-year-old schizophrenic geek with no employment record, no history in game design and no marketable skills of any sort, to create a new faction which they'll actually produce and support, and I get to decide everything about it, then they've gone so far off their rocker that the company's probably going to self-destruct in short order, and the only two reasonable options are to either refuse the job or exploit their insanity to suit my own purposes and hopefully get something official that I would like to have before the company no longer exists.
They'd have a wide variety of species among their number, and the squad kits would contain an even amount of males and females.
They would be technologically progressive, and they would consider each soldier's life to be valuable enough to invest in protecting. The normal armor save for infantry in the Codex would be a 4+, with a couple of power armor or heavy power armor Elites or Heavy Support units. Commander models would have a choice of armor.
Every model in the army would have some sort of ranged weapon, with their melee units having a pistol and one melee weapon (can be one-handed or two-handed) each. Their basic Troops unit would be primarily a ranged unit, with a rifle and pistol being standard armament and the squad having the option to include one special and one heavy weapon.
If they had plasma weapons at all, their plasma weapons would take the Tau route of being less powerful, but safer to use, so they'd eschew the Gets Hot! rule in exchange for reduced Strength.
They wouldn't have much ornamentation on their models, and their technology would be designed for practicality, durability and potency rather than impressiveness or fear factor.
Grav-tanks would be something they might have, but it wouldn't be the standard, and most of their vehicles would be wheeled or tracked.
No Cavalry or Beasts at all, their level of technology and preferred way of fighting has eliminated the need to use riding or combat animals.
Their normal statline would be similar to an Imperial Guard Veteran. Dedicated melee units might have a 4 in WS and a 3 in BS instead of the other way around.
Their melee units would also have the option of equipping every model in the unit with a Combat Shield (not a Storm Shield) for an extra points cost per model, though doing so would prevent them from choosing a two-handed melee weapon. Their melee squads would also be required to be equipped identically, perhaps with the squad leader being the only one who can choose to arm himself or herself with something different from the rest of the unit. You could take multiple units and equip those units differently, but each individual unit would use identical equipment for each member of the unit. Make a point of mentioning in the Army List section in the Codex that all models in the unit except the Sergeant must choose the same equipment. Provide enough bitz in their kit to accommodate this. No gosh-darned wound allocation shenanigans if they decide to bring the possibility back in the future.
Dear god no. The Wulfen are bad enough. But this? No.
A faction comprised entirely of cybernetic flowers riding vorpal bunnies, that have lazer beams from thier eyes, and bees in their mouths, so that when they yell they shoot bees at you. And the bees are also vorpal.
Something alien, definitely. But not something bug-like. Tyranids got that covered, as do the Vespid and the Necron scarabs/spider to a lesser degree, but also typical powered armor tends to be rather arthropod-y.
Could take a page from War of the Worlds and have the aliens themselves be little more than brains who build various machines as new bodies. Basic infantry can have very minimal suits, just legs and weapons and a touch of armor, while the supreme commanders get so many super fancy mecha extras that you can't even tell what the original xenos even looked like. And since the suits are wholly artificial, you can get a HUUUUUGE variety of body forms - no shared anatomy at all, apart from the token appearance by the brain-alien. Perhaps for that extra bit of weirdness, the brains could sit in the bellies of the suits, a la Krang.
All models with this rule gets hatred against any model sold by GW. That means virtually everyone who buys NiB from any Games workshop or independent dealer.
Preferred enemy: FW
All models with this rule gets preferred enemy on any model sold by Forge World.
This is more of a joke that anything.
The army would be a generic mix of GEq and MEq that allows you to use models from another game or scratch built. As long it is on a base, is standard height and dimensions of a GEq and MEq you are good to play.
There would be no fluffy rules beyond that. Just a bunch of GEq and MEq and some generic tanks and MCs thrown in.
What if the faction was more stationary and similar to terrain? Something like coral based aliens that are limited in ability to travel, but have powerful gunline/defenses available to them.
Coral could easily be adapted to a wide range of offensive powers if scaled up to human sized polyps. Giant rings of tentacles surrounding a voracious mouth connected to multiples of itself with a different type of coral growing from above it that launches bio weapons, crewed by sentient crustaceans or Corralimorphs.
And the coral species could survive out of water or possibly even in space, tropical coral species are well documented to be exposed during low tide for many hours at a time with zero nbegative effects.
Simeans - ala Planet of the Apes, but they have reached the technoligical level to become a spaceborne race. Basically, the Karmens from AT43, but without the philosopical bend and some slight tweaks.
Kongas as fast-moving melee troops with powered armor, armed with double powerfists.
Yetis as powered armored troops and jump packs with freeze weapons (act like flamers, but also slow enemy troops)
Silverbacks as the heavy troops in terminator armor with bazooka-like weapondry on their backs.
Orangatang priest/psykers dispensing the law of the Loregiver.
Anti-grav bikes, hovertanks that double as fliers. Transports that allow troops to rappel via electrified power lines (no DS mishaps vs. infantry as it forces them to get out of the way)
Of course, their knight/titan would be modeled after (robo)King Kong
oldzoggy wrote: Simple I would do what GW always did before.
look at current pop culture and "get inspired" by it and coppy right the hell out of it.
Mad max seems to be a good start. So non imperial human lowlife scrappers it is. That would be fun and all the oldskoolers might even like it since it kinda reminds them of gorka morka.
I would call the mini game featuring them
"Raging Ruins" and make it about scrap racers in a ruined desert city.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: I always felt the skaven would just be a small hop to be 40ked. Or any beasties in that theme would be sweet. Shaven would in my mind be a mix of ork and ad mech. Crazy guns with scrounged rides. All that said there are plenty of fluff races that I would love to see. Hrud, Bragassie. Dog soldier mercs. The Brb has some xenos art in it that I think is awesome.
An evolved AI faction. The machines that ancient humans sent out to colonize and terraform the galaxy have evolved into a true race of their own, and they've come back to meet their legendary makers. Of course once they show up they'll be set upon by pretty much every race in the 40K universe, and deem them hostile threats that need to be eliminated before colonization and terraforming begin. HQ's are humanoid in appearance, but nothing else is. All shaped by being purpose built.
An advanced Human faction. Human faction that evolved deep in space away from the corrupting influence of the warp. No worshiping the God Emperor, no anachronistic misunderstanding of technology. Make use of vat grown Clones for infantry, and drone support.
I definitely think the last thing the game needs is more imperial (or at least human) factions.
Not sure how they could shoehorn it in, but a race of 'good' demons could be interesting. Maybe not quite on-the-nose as angels, but something akin to slann from AoS. They are somehow 'good' demons, I think.
I mean, you'd think that there's more flavors than 4 in the realm of souls, and that not every dead spirit gets gobbled up by the evil chaos gods. It isn't inconceivable to think there are entities and forces in the realm of souls that are opposed to the chaos gods.
Or maybe it could just be a race that has evolved to the point where everything is naturally a psyker. So that they wield the immaterium on par with demons, but are still corporeal. Like eldar, but less lazors and more mind bullets.
The angels of fire, aka the emperors demons. They would use the storm cast eternals models (as they match the description from the fluff, and they wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel), be allies of convenience with the IoM and battle brothers to the legion of the damned, sisters of battle, and maybe grey knights. They would use the warp storm rules, count as demons, and have a melee focus (like the rest of the demons). They would have hatred demons of chaos, and special rules to reflect order and synergy, like gaining toughness when the unit is over a certain size.
Eh, like I said, I think angels would be a little obvious. And there's plenty of sentient beings in the galaxy who have died that have no particular allegiance to the emperor, but who also wouldn't want to be a part of chaos. So, maybe something a little less overt and imperial, but I'm not sure what form that would be, exactly.
I also liked elbow's suggestion of fringe groups, rogue traders, pirates, mercs, etc, though it is a very human and pseudo-imperialy army.
Nathaniel's thought of a skynet-type race could be nice. I personally always liked the geth from mass effect, but to be honest, either would be so close to necrons that they may as well just be necrons.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Matthew wrote: Imagine the US military from Fallout: mostly infantry with bionics, with some Power Armour mixed in.
Also, I would love to see dinosaurs. Like a T-Rex with a cannon on its back.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There was also an old, out of print greater knarloc model for tau that was literally a t-rex (with a beak) with a gun.
Matthew wrote: The only restriction is that it can't be anything done before or anything referenced in fluff. No Jorgali, no Hrud, nothing like that.
I would personally create a human republic. A republic formed after the age of strife, with no influences from the Imperium. It uses a lot of mech-y stuff, like walkers, exo-suits and bionics. Mostly infantry based. Think a more elite Imperial Guard, with augmentations and mechs.
so basicly you'd make the Tau?
IMHO there is eneugh Lore, some of it quite obscure not to need to make anything comnpletly new up. I'd dive into the lore, find something that was name dropped once and create an army around it.
A force of Chaos alien cyborgs. Every individual heavily modifies his own body according to his own tastes and to please his god. They ride around in monstrous spider-like vehicles covered in wicked spikes and chains. Individually, they resemble insects of some form or another but their baseline appearance is unknown due to heavy chaos mutations and robotic implants.
Their schtick is highly customizable infantry that can be outfitted for various roles. They are prefer using infantry over vehicles and thus they would only be allowed a few spider tanks.
Joking aside, I think a reptilian species would be cool, preferably one that is focused on CC with a few tricky ranged weapons
Exodites in Epic 40k. It was eldar riding dinosaurs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Or or or space rats! Some crazy warp explosion causes all rats in ships and on planets in a sector to turn into giant space man/rats allowing them to create their own faction. Think skaven in space.
What is cool? Dinosaurs are cool.
What is also cool? Aztecs. Aztecs are cool.
What is even more cool than dinosaurs or Aztecs? Aztec dinosaurs! Why have only one cool thing when you can have two at the same time?
How can we make Aztec dinosaurs even more cool? By adding more dinosaurs of course! We will have them ride on weaponised giant dinosaurs, because dinosaurs as weapons of war is the ultimate cool.
But wait... Can make it even more cool? Of course! Everything is more cool in SPEHSS!
Ergo, lizardmen in space. Definitely.
It'd be pretty cool to have a single Dark Age of Technology ship come out of the warp, displaced some 25,000 years, and have some pretty nifty technology.
Maybe they set up some small little empire with some other small humanoids. It'd be neat to see what old school DAoT humans could actually do.
You could make the lizard men the old ones that the necrons fought, that used the warp to escape the final days of the war in heaven and have been summoned back to the materia by the awakening of the crons. Of course I imagine the first new xenos in 15 years they may want to go with something completely new, maybe intergalactic in origin.
Seems like Lizardmen are the most popular choice. It isn't hard to see why. The aesthetic just reeks of cool.
The main problem is what would the stats be? I would think they'd be in between a Necron Immortal and Tactical Space Marine in toughness, but we have too many units that function like MEQ in the game, on top of them just being made for war. They'd be better at shooting than Orks, but at least equal in melee.
I'd think they'd be like Iron Hands CT but on crack.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Seems like Lizardmen are the most popular choice. It isn't hard to see why. The aesthetic just reeks of cool.
The main problem is what would the stats be? I would think they'd be in between a Necron Immortal and Tactical Space Marine in toughness, but we have too many units that function like MEQ in the game, on top of them just being made for war. They'd be better at shooting than Orks, but at least equal in melee.
I'd think they'd be like Iron Hands CT but on crack.
Uh excuse you I'm pretty sure lava dolphins had just as much if nit more support.
It's like cmon there's already fire hawks space sharks and gak so why not lava dolphins!
If I were to create a new race I think I would do some ancient race of Giants that long ago moved into the greatest depths of the Eye of Terror worshiping chaos and in ancient times having built many of the more mysterious artifices found throughout the Imperium. Warpbeasts and other non-daemons are able to survive in otherwise tainted parts of space, these giants would be no different. While still effected by chaos and the warp, it would be to a lesser degree compared to other mortals.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Seems like Lizardmen are the most popular choice. It isn't hard to see why. The aesthetic just reeks of cool.
GW never shied away from running with a good idea in a number of different ways... We had Slann in Rogue Trader... We had Exodites riding Dinosaurs... Early on many aspects of Tyranid's larger monsters were also based around dinosaurs to a limited degree... All three concepts however have been mostly abandoned by GW.
How about a race that isn't as old or as technologically advanced as the other races. They could use crossbows or muskets, or basic guns like those used in the World Wars.
Mutant, bipedal rodents escape from a Mars laboratory and steal a ship loaded with a consignment of attack bikes intended to resupply a marine chapter.
A noble amphibious race of sentient reptiles (possibly children of the old ones) is discovered by Eldar traders blown off course. While they are marooned, the Eldar trade their technology and barter for parts with the more technically adept and demonstrate their martial arts to the warrior clans.
The reptile-men share their native foodstuffs with the Eldar- disc-bread flavoured with sauce and small salted fish.
Four young reptile-men leave with the Eldar when their ship is repaired. Their adventures will inspire a space-faring culture among these hard shelled creatures and contact with the Imperium is inevitable.
Tentacled translucent jelly monsters. Cast in coloured clear plastic, only their weapons and armour require paint.
Hideous skinless 8 limbed cat creatures who worship the chaos gods.
I don't think the game needs another SMEQ army, maybe a mixed save style army like the tau. Mix it up by giving the lizardmen/old ones all invul saves because of their psychic might, with the slinks having a 5+ to the Slan having a 3+. They would also be the ultimate psychic army, with every unit having at least a ML 1. Lots of force weapons, and the fluff surrounding their ranged weapons being they harness they psychic power of the wielder and thus have different stats based on who is wielding them. You could have their fluff be that they realized they messed up with the creation of the younger races, and now they are back to end all life in the galaxy, which combined with their unstopable might makes for a properly grimdark fluff.
I wrote an entire faction up. They are humans whose job is to trap and sell all manner of things to all manner of buyers.
They have net guns, rules for trapping or slowing enemies down, hover crafts that are good for all manner of terrain they may face, and they generally focus on some of the lesser used rules in the BRB. their stat lines are pedestrian like IG, they also don't have armor that heavy, butthey are quick, they can slow you down, they put out a high high volume of fire though none of it is of frightening AP and they try to encircle you and keep you from focusing your armies strength on any one piece fo theres.
I liked the design and it was definitely a different feel when you're kind of relying on volume of fire and position to win rather than high tech goodies or monstrous stat lines.
i envisioned them as mercenaries for the Tau originally butthen kind of got into it and made them their own thing. I should find those notes and type them up.
Iron_Captain wrote: What is cool? Dinosaurs are cool.
What is also cool? Aztecs. Aztecs are cool.
What is even more cool than dinosaurs or Aztecs? Aztec dinosaurs! Why have only one cool thing when you can have two at the same time?
How can we make Aztec dinosaurs even more cool? By adding more dinosaurs of course! We will have them ride on weaponised giant dinosaurs, because dinosaurs as weapons of war is the ultimate cool.
But wait... Can make it even more cool? Of course! Everything is more cool in SPEHSS!
Ergo, lizardmen in space. Definitely.
It's a hostile commerce empire making profits out of running in and out of the eye of terror. They have strong links to Necrons and Chaos. They believe in war for profit and don't really care about ruling unless it brings profit or the demise of enemies hindering profits. From profits the Isidarian's produce weapons and armor for several droid warriors and for other mystical creatures from the eye of terror that associate with them. They're ruled by large metallic sphinx's that control the empire they are the lord's of war and commerce, they enjoy scheming and plotting the expansion of the empire as well as the improving in its defenses. Rumored to know well beyond that of the Necron assistance they seem to be fickle and contemplative with the world. In battle they're a cold and calculative foe on the level of a demon prince or a hive tyrant terms of size, physical and psychic power. If the Sphinx lord is too busy to show he might send his 'Keepsake', A psychic enslaved humanoid or eldar loyal or forced through collared means is the basic psychic lord without much physique. The 'Keepsake' wearing a technological collar board casting its mind to the Sphinx itself in which the Sphinx can give telepathic orders to the front line.
The lowliest of the Isidarian is the Vemeer, a wind like soul entity that has trouble manifesting a physical form. Rumored to be the soul's of creatures effected by the taint of chaos having found away to escape its cluches in a disembodiment form to cease the corruption of their soul. They take it upon themselves to use filigree thin metal wrappings to produce a physical form. They scout in combative scenario's and deal with general trade for the consortium, they also can be elite assassins as well. The expendable BL01 droid is the front-line droid resembles the torso and arm's of a Necron but the head and lower body are completely different in appearance. The head more appealing and approachable then the dank look of a Necron but the leg's being reversed and more mechanical. They carry energy rifles and have a beam like knife along the right wrist for melee combat though it is hardly noticeable aside the pocket along the guard.
Isidarian's hold many things of value, slaves being most prized to them for study and trade in the eye of terror or the Dark Eldar. They also enjoy hold prized elite gladiators and creatures of all walks of life. Some may even become loyal to their captor. Many are favored creatures bestially and chaotic from the eye of terror that hold allegiance to a chaos god. These creatures come from a variety of ranges such as; Gorgon, Minotaur, Disfigured Corpses and Djinn. Though the Isidarian's call the influence of chaos 'The Taint' and is looked on as a corruptible influence that can be useful if controlled.
Vemeer Assassin's can be worth their price if needing a quick and subtle kill, though for quick melee assaults the Isidarian enjoy Bird Maidens metallic filigreed like females with gem embedded swords and jewelry are akin to the Vemeer as a soul is placed within the metallic figure. Vemeer Disque Riders take up the quick raiding assaults from atop a fast moving disk holding hard hitting carbines. Several skimmer vehicles have been rumored for quick assaults, as well they also have heavier variations for sustain combat scenarios.
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I was basically just doing a shoot off of Necron's and Chaos mostly, it has an Eldar trait as well to make it more believable though. This isn't a Bad Guy army but it isn't a Good Guy army ether. I wanted it to come off as a Cold, IDGAF army. I also wanted a lot of mythological relation to Egyptian mythos as this army is beside the Necron's as I see the Necron's as the humanoid form of the Egyptian tale. This idea is more of the mythological approach which is why I also throw it in the Eye of Terror a bit. I think it helps ease things up on the Necron's and makes the idea more mystifying. I think the eye of terror could be used more in both Chaos and in general. This is kind of a half and half approach in trying to bring a lot out of it to spice up Chaos / Eye of Terror and Necron's as I feel they both have very faintly told stories that are largely left unexplored.
Something similar to protoss from star craft. Melee focused AP3 on troops fast but very expensive points wise. Maybe have guys who can set up warp gates which summons more troops.
I would make a elite female space marines army. They would have sisterhood of psykers and focus on ranged and stealth rather than melee (with a few outliers). So basically the daughters of tau and grey knights. And maybe have a core of dino riders because dinosaurs.
Easy choice: Dark Mechanicum. Geeks that have played with Chaos for millennia in their parents basement, and now are they ready to show the world ...
Since their most advanced weapons and machines are designed and created in the Eye of Chaos they would struggle with non-Chaos physical laws. They could get something like the Daemons table, or different levels on all tech - the higher level the more problems.
Creative answer: A modular race, where 1 individual is as intelligent as a dog - but 3 individuals may link togheter and achieve sentience of human level, and 12 would either be psychic or a mixture of Magos (technical skill and production) and Autarch (strategic thinking). Their thinking, values and society are completly alien to both humans, eldar and tau.
It would not be "Eldars by another name" or "pop culture ripoff", and give the model designers a real challenge.
I always imagine that the tyrannid are being chased by a more mechanized tyrannic being, with large tanks, like a small horde of av 11 tanks that shred infantry to death. I think it would be interesting if the tanks were essentially sentient, and had no drivers itself, just biomorph hybrid tanks
SickSix wrote: Well we defonitely do NOT need more factions. But If I could introduce one, it would be the Hrud.
And barring that we especially dont need any more human factions.
I would like to maybe see space lizards. Like Trandoshans or something. Very saurian. Who doesn't want a space T-Rex with lasers?!
Dinosaucers yeeeaaah! Dah dah da dum! Dah dah da dum!
Automatically Appended Next Post: *Ahem* Sorry for the Geek out...loved Dino saucers and Dino Riders. I'd totally vote for Lizardmen in Space!
As for designing an army I'd go with a Body Snatchers idea.
If anybody remembers or actually read a series called Animorphs the Yeerks are a parasitic slug that can squeeze into a person's ear, wrap themselves around the brain and take control of their new 'host body'. The Yeerks themselves needed to feed and breed in special ponds that they made transportable to allow them to roam the galaxy(and attempt to enslave it).
Making it fit for the grimdark...
Renaming - Gotta be something GW can trademark...
Goal - Universal enslavement can stay, it fits.
Army description - The trademarked slugs don't have much by way of unique tech, they're too new to their release from their home planet, so mostly they're getting by on the technology of creatures they've enslaved. Ranged combat is limited due to the trademarked Slug's unfamiliarity with concepts like range but since they have access to the creatures from their home world the trademarked slugs have some truly fierce beasts, cavalry and monstrous creatures.
What makes them different? - The trademarked slugs are body snatchers and use melee to force more of their number into enemy ranks. Rather than actually striking at their enemies using strength they roll-off with enemy units on a strength roll to grab enemy models and force them into the mobile pools that they will need to drag along with them. Enemy models that lose their roll become part of the trademarked slug's army.
Weaknesses - The mobile ponds. Blast a mobile pond and no enemy models can be stolen, units without their ponds become tough but weak melee units, tar-pits at best.
Strength - Durability. Much like the Necrons these xenos filth will have both saves an non-save saves and a lot of them...oh, and MCs. While their basic troops are lackluster with no real combat boosts, minimal attacks and laughable weapon skills they are very durable with high toughness, great saves and multiple wounds and while possessing a pool don't really require the weapon skill anyway...
I like the sound of a saurian race, but I'd put my own spin on it. I was thinking that maybe have the race first of use heavy genetic engineering for most troops that would lead to a sort of Ogre kingdoms like army with hulking lizard warriors as you rank.and file troops, more elite troops with armor, a sort of bionic berserker, shield carrier , smaller sniper/infiltrator types, some warbeast, and maybe four types of rudimentary vehicles transport/tank/walker/flyer.
For their technology I would do something that's in between ork scrap and imperial fancy gothic but with a focus on crystals as a power source prominently displayed
For actual table top performance I would say that the army would mainly rely on its durability, due to the crystal technology their weapon are generally of not the greatest strength but have a charging up mechanic to become at least somewhat of a threat. Have them be good at melee and the means to get them there but actually have to work for it, not just roll the across the board and wreck face.
A race of monstrous creatures that while few in number can psychically project themselves somewhere else, creating a copy of themselves. When they die so does the projection. Each kit comes with 2 models, one for them one for the psychic copy.
Slow and lumbering creatures with thick armored skulls and maybe covered in fur. They could add to dispel dice + adamantium will but not cast spells. Or maybe the projection is a spell, idk.
For guns lots of template sonic attacks. Maybe str 3 ap - rending. Maybe some torrent because that isn't used enough.
edit: oh man the more I think about this the better it gets
ok statline:
monstrous creatures
WS:2 BS:2 S:6 T:6 W:3 I:2 A: 2 LD:8 SV:4++
they all have stubborn, slow and purpouseful, and adamantium will
about...110 points base
they also have a heavy support unit that has to deep strike (burrowed from the ground) but has a -1 to his reserves (because he's hibernating dammit and he needs his sleep) but when he hits the board he's a killing machine with 6 shred haywire attacks with his sonic claws.
they also have a heavy support choice thats a terrain piece, a large psychically conductive spire that shoots out of the ground via deepstrike (like the drop pod one where it cant screw up) that pulses with energy causing the ground around it within 6"(12?) to hit you with strikedown+pinning attacks. Also you can't cast spells close to them. This way you can have a slow army without vehicles that slows the enemy as well, putting you on a slightly even playing field.
Ir0njack wrote: I like the sound of a saurian race, but I'd put my own spin on it. I was thinking that maybe have the race first of use heavy genetic engineering for most troops that would lead to a sort of Ogre kingdoms like army with hulking lizard warriors as you rank.and file troops, more elite troops with armor, a sort of bionic berserker, shield carrier , smaller sniper/infiltrator types, some warbeast, and maybe four types of rudimentary vehicles transport/tank/walker/flyer.
For their technology I would do something that's in between ork scrap and imperial fancy gothic but with a focus on crystals as a power source prominently displayed
For actual table top performance I would say that the army would mainly rely on its durability, due to the crystal technology their weapon are generally of not the greatest strength but have a charging up mechanic to become at least somewhat of a threat. Have them be good at melee and the means to get them there but actually have to work for it, not just roll the across the board and wreck face.
There's my two cents, it was fun to come up with!
A charging army of these bad boys might even give Thunderwolf Cavalry second thoughts...although he did get beat down by a human boxer...
There are plenty of them, so will be nice see them on the game. Not need to be mutated, just adore them (like the reptilian race that adore slaanesh on the heresy)
And, even if not totally new race...MORE GROTS xDD. An option to play a full or nearly full grot army is so sensual xD
A race of evil space marines who follow the chaos gods and who are a threat and do not keep failing.
We all know the current chaos fodder marines are stand ins for how tough people are. They are even writting messages on demon primarchs hearts. Time to send 5 marines into the warp to kill the gods next?
But in all honesty, undead. I know they've got plague chaos and such, but I mean more like ghosts, wraiths, skeletons, poltergeist out of the TV and right onto your wargaming board.
You could have some kind of rule that you get to raise the opponent's dead models or "possess" and they come on as a debuffed unit of yours or something. Literally using your opponents models against him.
Point of contention: Heldrakes aren't dark mechanicus; they are space marines that have become obsessed with the craft they pilot and merged in to it (kinda like a flying mutilator). Otherwise fair point.
nareik wrote: Point of contention: Heldrakes aren't dark mechanicus; they are space marines that have become obsessed with the craft they pilot and merged in to it (kinda like a flying mutilator). Otherwise fair point.
Yeah a Heldrake is pretty much a Hell Talon whose space marine pilot/crew have turned to chaos, as well as the machine spirit of the flyer being corrupted, so then the two entitys fused into one and became a chaos flyer of death
Gave this moar thought - and if a new race would be sucsessful it has to fill a void, or do something not done elsewhere in the game.
We already have heavy infantry good/evil
Light infantry good/evil
Warp demons
Big space bugs
Evil terminating robots
Space elves good/evil
Orks cause every fantasy setting has em
Some random just because ambiguous aliens
So what's missing?
Arguably the game breaks down into good/evil or shades of said, with
Space marines, gaurd, sisters, eldar, and tau falling on the "good" side
And demons, chaos, cultists, orks and nids and crons taking evil side. So a 5-6 imbalance. Meaning a "good aligned" faction would be a proper fit to bring things into balance.
On the good side of things we have the aliens who try to help but are not trusted, the massive human empire, with its elite forces and its "every man" army. But what we don't have is something really awsome .....
So - cybertronian rip offs. Models that are like Knights, so a army of maybe 10 models max at 2k. No "man size infantry" just big robots - that can transform from monstrous /Garg creatures into vehicles /super heavy vehicles. Depending on the "mode" they have diff abilities and load outs. Switching modes is done just like fliers going from swoop to glide.
Most would be maybe rhino / dreadnought size, with maybe a few coming in at land raider/riptide level, and then the 0-1 super guy who's a knight/baneblade in comparison.
Each class of robot is a base cost with a build your own loadout. Unit size is small - like 1-3 guys each, the big ones are solo. And weapons would scale as well. The biggest guns reserved for the biggest guys. But list wise would work similar to tau crisis suits.
luky7dayz wrote:I always imagine that the tyrannid are being chased by a more mechanized tyrannic being, with large tanks, like a small horde of av 11 tanks that shred infantry to death. I think it would be interesting if the tanks were essentially sentient, and had no drivers itself, just biomorph hybrid tanks
As a dedicated tanker i like this idea!
A Self replicating AI spreading through the galaxy with many different robot warriors.
Skinflint Games wrote: I'd go with Dark Mechanicus, there's lots of potential for some really weird, messed-up tech
They already exist in fluff--and what's more, there's already a significant Dark Mechanicus element in the CSM book.
Helbrutes, Obliterators, Heldrakes, Defilers, Maulerfiends, and Forgefiends are all DM items.
Baneblades, Titans, plasma guns, power armor, augments and Valkyries are all Mechanicum items. That did not stop GW from creating a Mechanicum faction (or two) with really innovative units like Vanguards and Kastellans, or new rules like Doctrina Imperatives.
The most advanced Mechanicum equipment (Titans, Ordo Reductio machines, Ark ships) is always accompanied or commanded by tech-priests and/or Magos. That Defilers isn't accompanied by designated Sorcerors, Dark Magus or something similar is a sign that the creatures mentioned above are fairly low on the tech scale. So there is a lot of possibilites to create a Dark Mechanicus faction that is really unique regarding units, force structure, relationships to other Factions and rules.
superkuf wrote: The most advanced Mechanicum equipment (Titans, Ordo Reductio machines, Ark ships) is always accompanied or commanded by tech-priests and/or Magos.
That Defilers isn't accompanied by designated Sorcerors, Dark Magus or something similar is a sign that the creatures mentioned above are fairly low on the tech scale.
If you look at the recent IG formations, a unit of 3 Hellhounds or Artillery requires a Tech-Priest, but a squadron of Russes doesn't.
Defilers are Daemonic machines. They are alive and self-repair. Maybe they eat a Tech-Priest before they head out.
Personally, I would bring the Men of Iron back. Some idiot tech adept fires up an STC and next thing you know there are a heck of a lot of pissed automatons knocking on the IoM's door. Bit too close to Necrons admittedly but it would be fun to see the sins of the past catch up with the IoM.
Zaku212 wrote: factions with obvious and relatable goals.
I'll be honest here, I'd rather an "obvious and relatable goal" than the lazy excuse for not wanting to actually have to write that is "mysterious mysteriousness of the mystery that is mysterious",
Tyranids? Obvious and relatable goals. They want to eat stuff and further the hive fleet. Necrons? Obvious and relatable. They're bitter and hateful and want to lash out at those around them while reclaiming their old empire. Even Chaos is obvious and relatable-- push for more influence for the Chaos Gods, who want dominion over realspace just as they have over warpspace.
luky7dayz wrote: I always imagine that the tyrannid are being chased
There is so much potential with that. I always thought the Tyranids were running from something as well. It would be awesome to have a faction that even the Tyranids are afraid of!
I thought blood angels were the official vampire ripoffs in 40k. Honestly though a splinter IoM kingdom would be cool because The IoM seems too monolithic, too omnipresent. Going darker than the IoM might be challenging, because it's every flavor of awful and oppressive. However Space vampires might be interesting, but it could just as easily be ruled by space marines who treat humans as chattel, and have a horrible caste system with space marines living in glorious palaces with normal humans living in sub IoM conditions. Maybe it starts with the inquisition trying to exterminate the space wolves, and the loyalist chapters having to choose sides as an IoM wide revolt starts.
Grimgold wrote: I thought blood angels were the official vampire ripoffs in 40k. Honestly though a splinter IoM kingdom would be cool because The IoM seems too monolithic, too omnipresent. Going darker than the IoM might be challenging, because it's every flavor of awful and oppressive. However Space vampires might be interesting, but it could just as easily be ruled by space marines who treat humans as chattel, and have a horrible caste system with space marines living in glorious palaces with normal humans living in sub IoM conditions. Maybe it starts with the inquisition trying to exterminate the space wolves, and the loyalist chapters having to choose sides as an IoM wide revolt starts.
Sort of, with all the blood symbolism and imagery, but they never went as far as drinking or consuming blood.
Closest thing to vamps so far in 40k are probably either the Sons of Malice, who got kicked out of the ioM by themail inquisition for eating the corpses of those who they bested in combat, or the soul drinkers traitor legion.
Grimgold wrote: I thought blood angels were the official vampire ripoffs in 40k. Honestly though a splinter IoM kingdom would be cool because The IoM seems too monolithic, too omnipresent. Going darker than the IoM might be challenging, because it's every flavor of awful and oppressive. However Space vampires might be interesting, but it could just as easily be ruled by space marines who treat humans as chattel, and have a horrible caste system with space marines living in glorious palaces with normal humans living in sub IoM conditions. Maybe it starts with the inquisition trying to exterminate the space wolves, and the loyalist chapters having to choose sides as an IoM wide revolt starts.
I would prefer if it was not space marines but like the counts of fantasy that way it gives the ordo hereticus more interesting stuff to do. Trying to take over the imperium from the inside and their big goal would be to bring back the emperor as a undead god or something. Hell it could even be the eldar death god that spawns that causes the spread of vampirism among the eldar and humans to get revenge on chaos.
The Unnamed Empire is the reason the Tyranids exist.
The Unnamed built their society using a form of science and tech based on necroscience, or death energy. In pursuit of immortality they commit heinous experiments to stave off their own fears. The first leap they made was in an attempt to bring the dead back to life. This way the greatest leaders, heroes and thinkers could lead them into the future! This sadly led them only to bringing the corpse back as an automaton. Mindless, devoid of the spark of thought but extremely tough.
Realizing it would be easier to extend the life of the living than to bring back the dead they made another leap. The Ghoul program was crafted through injections which increased the speed, strength and durability of a normal empire citizen. Though life was extended by many years the mind would still degrade to the point the Ghoul would be more beast than anything else. The other problem was the requirement of flesh to keep the body as fresh as possible.
The third major leap came about using a requirement of many years of injections, genetic manipulations and experimentations. This created a being far above normal standards of human strength, speed and durability. It allowed for near limitless immortality and the mind would not degrade. To maintain this required large amounts of blood. Sadly, the first of the group died as they had to use their teeth which were not sharp and poorly suited. So they eventually developed a series of tubes and needles some built directly into their bodies others a part of suits to help them take in the large amounts of blood they require.
As the years went on a huge issue came up. How to maintain such a society. They had already removed all opposition and allies from many galaxies and their own living population was dwindling under the dead. So in search of a renewable resource they found a strange alien species that multiplied at an alarming rate. Quickly seizing the opportunity they began harvesting this species. At first it worked wonders and helped them advance their science. Unknowingly the species was highly psychic and one day attempted to reach out to the empire...but you obviously couldn't have your food talk to you as you ate it right?
So the next steps were to eliminate the psychic ability of this race as the years of necroscience had proven was that psychic energy could not exist with death energy. Now communication cut off the empire continued until they noticed the alien species causing problems due to their individuality. This made things unpredictable...less than desired. No stranger to removing individuality the empire began to do so on this alien species.
Unknowingly this was the beginning of what the Imperium would called the Tyranids. It started slowly at first but quickly slipped from their grasp. In blind pursuit of their own immortal perfection the Nids rapidly evolved to a state where one of two things would happen. The Unnamed empire would either die under its renewable resource or they had to let it go. So they let it go.
So now the Tyranids wander from galaxy to galaxy. Running from those who enslaved, created and harvested them. Hoping either to outrun the Unnamed empire or gather enough strength to crush it. Sadly, the Unnamed empire uses this to their advantage. First, the Tyranids due to their nature being drawn to harvesting biomass guides the Unnamed Empire to new civilizations. This means new technology to help with their sciences, this means new materials living and dead to work with. The Tyranids act as a buffer...creating a "my enemy of my enemy is my friend" case where the Unnamed Empire can manipulate those they meet and use the Nids as a shield to cover the Unnamed's primary goal. Thirdly, as the Tyranid force grows from devouring life, the Unnamed empire scalpels off pieces of the hive fleets for sustenance. Lastly, and most importantly, the Shadows of the Warp acts as a shield against psychic forces which they have little defense for at this point.
The Unnamed empire uses a mixture of shambling tough zombies with rudimentary weapons, weapon platforms integrated with gigantic patchwork frankensteins, chimera like beasts of massive scale, inhuman creatures of various degrees from brutal armored ghouls to beings of near perfection...the "vampires". Alongside them are the rare and highly prized living of their race who carry an assortment of tools and weapons that function both in war and in the operating room.
Sorry if this is rough. Backpacking Japan right now, is actually an idea I have with a war/skirmish game I've been thinking about doing, the names would obviously be set in stone. Concept is simply a way to try and integrate an actual Undead race with actual physical bodies without resorting to "magic did it". Instead it's "science did it"! So ya, just a thought.
I would introduce one of the lost Space Marine chapters struck from Imperial records , only it would be revealed to be all women who had survived the process to become marines and somehow honorably lost in the warp until now, unchanged by the Chaos Gods...or returned from some other equally dangerous yet prestigious mission from the edge of known space or maybe fighting Necrons or something.
On a personal level I feel the lore has needed a soft reboot to make most human factions unisex, including space marines and the imperial guard unisex for a good long while now, but this would be an interesting middle ground. Allowing for a lost chapter to return, while fulfilling the Emperor's wish to create an all female chapter.
Yes technically there are the Sisters of Battle, but part of the reason they never sold well to start is that they just weren't actual space marines. Women gamers don't want to feel segregated and they are the fastest growing group of gamers these days. But well made female Marines and Imperial Guard in plastics would bring a lot of new players into the game if it was handled with taste instead of overt sexualization (no need for boostiers, just make them look a bit more like real people/empowered women instead of tiny cartoon sex objects.)
Herecomesyourman wrote: I would introduce one of the lost Space Marine chapters struck from Imperial records ,
only it would be revealed to be all women
On a personal level I feel the lore has needed a soft reboot to make most human factions unisex, including space marines and the imperial guard unisex for a good long while now,
Yes technically there are the Sisters of Battle, but part of the reason they never sold well to start is that they just weren't actual space marines. Women gamers don't want to feel segregated and they are the fastest growing group of gamers these days. But well made female Marines and Imperial Guard in plastics would bring a lot of new players into the game if it was handled with taste instead of overt sexualization (no need for boostiers, just make them look a bit more like real people/empowered women instead of tiny cartoon sex objects.)
... we've seen this before. Astral Claws...
... OMG, no. We don't need (or want) girl SMs - that's what Sisters fill in for.
... and no. Guard is already integrated in many regiments, including Catachan and Tanith, along with the Commissar corps. It is canon that there are all-female regiments as well.
For something new, perhaps not. But upending the 40k background isn't the place to fix this. Tell me, how many female pilots are in the hot, new X-wing game?
Well 40K did at one time have a Saurian race. it was a short lived experiment but people still have some models for that.
The trouble with any new race is, you have to determine how they haven't already been involved to this point...and... why they would GET involved, having been so successfully hiding from what is a chaotic and tumultuous universe at war. That also means you have to explain how they got there, and who their natural enemies are. Conquest is a goal i suppose but given the sheer volume of enemies in that space sector, it seems far more likely that they are here for a specific enemy or set of enemies.
The IMperium makes the most sense. It's more than easily imagined that the Imperiums callous opinion of Xenos led them to commit exterminatus against a far flung colony of this new threat and they started to gain information about this and learned to their dismay that there is a nenormous section of space with an enormous number of habitable planets. but of greatest interest is the esoteric Imperium who attacked them.
Seeing the many enemies the Imperium has, they may decide to be "of service" to those enemies, offering independent fleets who would work under their command for a time when attacking Imperial forces. it isn't hard to imagine several of those allies trying to backstab them or steal their technology afterwards.
So a biomorphic lifeform that can take the form of other factions would be a slick way to explain the way they are able to gain information about them undetected, and perhaps their technology could be centered around energy transference (in other words, leeching from existing power sources, or turning energy to matter and matter to energy).
They might be powerful energy beings themselves who have mastered converting their own forms into matter when needed, which would REALLY explain why they could stay undetected.
As modeling goes this would allow near infinite possibilities as to the forms they take. They could have abilities they can turn on which essentially invert the STR and AP of weapons fired against them. they could have units who know how to turn armor into energy, weakening the hulls of enemy war machines. They could blast an enemy with energy at the cost of their own toughness. they could spend a round recharging themselves to their original toughness or go kamikazi and expend themselves in order to do more damage.
i dunno. I can think of a lot of possibilities there.
several of the above responses are similar to what I would want... but basically Cylons meet reapers meet geth
Every civilization has probably had an AI uprising. Given the history humanity has probably gone through several of these. nobody ever truly wins against the Ai they just always come to the logical conclusion that they can adapt and live in harsher environments than biological beings. as the encounter new and newer Ai they adapt and merge technologies, they created the tyranids to strip areas of bio mass and for new civilizations to be created with new tech for them to absorb. They usually avoid direct combat but since this area of the universe is showing heavy resistance to the swarm they have dispatched a cleansing force to the milky way.
unique abilities
night fighting active the entire game, their best tactic is to cut off all sources of light to a planet, like the tau they would have night vision
every unit has an armor value not a toughness value though basic small machines would be AV8 (T4 equivalent)
all units have armor plating instead of armor values so 4+ or better save depending on the machine.
Cylon portion would be that certain units are infiltrated into other cultures and beings already in flesh machines. can emerge (deep strike) into a unit and engage in close combat and/or suicide bomb it.
defeated larger units drop collector units that recall the data of fallen lesser machines backing up their data. if a larger machine is killed place a marker it is immediately treated as an objective worth 3 points at the end of the game.
John, sorry this posted twice, see my post below so this doesn't become annoying. I did respond thoroughly to your post as to why I find it dismissive and short sighted.
Herecomesyourman wrote: I would introduce one of the lost Space Marine chapters struck from Imperial records ,
only it would be revealed to be all women
On a personal level I feel the lore has needed a soft reboot to make most human factions unisex, including space marines and the imperial guard unisex for a good long while now,
Yes technically there are the Sisters of Battle, but part of the reason they never sold well to start is that they just weren't actual space marines. Women gamers don't want to feel segregated and they are the fastest growing group of gamers these days. But well made female Marines and Imperial Guard in plastics would bring a lot of new players into the game if it was handled with taste instead of overt sexualization (no need for boostiers, just make them look a bit more like real people/empowered women instead of tiny cartoon sex objects.)
... we've seen this before. Astral Claws...
... OMG, no. We don't need (or want) girl SMs - that's what Sisters fill in for.
... and no. Guard is already integrated in many regiments, including Catachan and Tanith, along with the Commissar corps. It is canon that there are all-female regiments as well.
For something new, perhaps not. But upending the 40k background isn't the place to fix this. Tell me, how many female pilots are in the hot, new X-wing game?
No clue how many, but my GF who is a publishing agent who pitches to TOR and the like is putting together an An X-Wing army. Also that's ships, NOT figurines of men and women. And again, she'll tell you that post hunger games women have become the fastest growing group of gamers in all genres.
As I stated above, Sisters are explicitly NOT Space Marines. And women don't like to feel segregated. In reality the best thing would be to soft reboot out any 1980's nonesense which stated they couldn't make daughters of the Emperor in the lore. They only wrote that because they couldn't resin cast good looking female models in space marine armor at the time.
The fact is 40K has had just as many good writers when it comes to lore as gakky ones, and it is a bit sexist to leave things where they currently lie forever. So from what I understand you would bring a lot of women unto war gaming/modeling, the industry would thrive, and the IP would be much more likely to be developed into movies/television formatted shows.
By making the the distinction that "this is what sisters are for" you're telling women gamers that Space marines are a boys only club, and segregation like that is turn off for women gamers.
Stars Wars had had female characters introduced as the years roll on, Rebel One will star a female pilot. In real time we are seeing what I'm talking about.
Lastly while females exist in the guard, there are no plastics. It's time to change that and make that unisex option accessible to women gamers.
The necrons unfortunately kind of hjave the AI concept on lock down. They are essentially that.
Adeptus mechanics kind of maybe also? i dunno thats a stretch but it seems maybe too similar.
And remember it was the Age of Technology that the Imperium forsook so completely, so i could see the possibilities of an AI but the Imperium so thoroughly irradicated those things that there is no real infrastructure for it to make use of.
It's a cool idea but I am not so sure it would be able to get much purchase in the grimdark. Maybe a creation of the Tau Empire but then the Tau territory is certainly not large enough to spawn a second threat great enough to make it on the radar.
Herecomesyourman wrote: I would introduce one of the lost Space Marine chapters struck from Imperial records ,
only it would be revealed to be all women
On a personal level I feel the lore has needed a soft reboot to make most human factions unisex, including space marines and the imperial guard unisex for a good long while now,
Yes technically there are the Sisters of Battle, but part of the reason they never sold well to start is that they just weren't actual space marines. Women gamers don't want to feel segregated and they are the fastest growing group of gamers these days. But well made female Marines and Imperial Guard in plastics would bring a lot of new players into the game if it was handled with taste instead of overt sexualization (no need for boostiers, just make them look a bit more like real people/empowered women instead of tiny cartoon sex objects.)
... we've seen this before. Astral Claws...
... OMG, no. We don't need (or want) girl SMs - that's what Sisters fill in for.
... and no. Guard is already integrated in many regiments, including Catachan and Tanith, along with the Commissar corps. It is canon that there are all-female regiments as well.
For something new, perhaps not. But upending the 40k background isn't the place to fix this. Tell me, how many female pilots are in the hot, new X-wing game?
No clue how many, but my GF who is a publishing agent who pitches to TOR and the like is putting together an An X-Wing army. Also that's ships, NOT figurines of men and women. And again, she'll tell you that post hunger games women have become the fastest growing group of gamers in all genres.
As I stated above, Sisters are explicitly NOT Space Marines. And women don't like to feel segregated. In reality the best thing would be to soft reboot out any 1980's nonesense which stated they couldn't make daughters of the Emperor in the lore. They only wrote that because they couldn't resin cast good looking female models in space marine armor at the time.
The fact is 40K has had just as many good writers when it comes to lore as gakky ones, and it is a bit sexist to leave things where they currently lie forever. So from what I understand you would bring a lot of women unto war gaming/modeling, the industry would thrive, and the IP would be much more likely to be developed into movies/television formatted shows.
By making the the distinction that "this is what sisters are for" you're telling women gamers that Space marines are a boys only club, and segregation like that is turn off for women gamers.
Stars had had female characters introduced as the years roll on, Rebel One will star a female pilot. In real time we are seeing what I'm talking about.
You may be going a bit deeper into this than i would. I really dont think sexism is what keeps female gamers at bay. i think it's that they just dont get invited to the hobby often enough and it isnt as if they hide all the boxes when girls are in the shop. Lol.
I also don't think you have to be a girl to like Sisters of Battle. its my most successful tournament army! So Adepta Sororitas isnt just for girls. Space marines aren't just for guys. I played against a univorn and pegasus festooned Space Wolfs army at Annihilation 4 though, complete with glitter. So, a woman who wants to can get creative and make whatever army she wants work.
so yeah Im not buying into sexism as a reason. But i will buy that they arent as often inivited to join in. maybe we assume they wont want to, but my daughter liked Warmachine. I suppose you can argue that there are more girl figures for it but she played menoth.
Jancoran wrote: You may be going a bit deeper into this than i would. I really dont think sexism is what keeps female gamers at bay. i think it's that they just dont get invited to the hobby often enough and it isnt as if they hide all the boxes when girls are in the shop. Lol.
I also don't think you have to be a girl to like Sisters of Battle. its my most successful tournament army! So Adepta Sororitas isnt just for girls. Space marines aren't just for guys. I played against a univorn and pegasus festooned Space Wolfs army at Annihilation 4 though, complete with glitter. So, a woman who wants to can get creative and make whatever army she wants work.
so yeah Im not buying into sexism as a reason. But i will buy that they arent as often inivited to join in. maybe we assume they wont want to, but my daughter liked Warmachine. I suppose you can argue that there are more girl figures for it but she played menoth.
War Machine has many female commentators on youtube, and a much larger female fan base because of its intentionally unisex army options and strong, prominent female characters.
There is such a thing as systemic sexism. It's not overt and often not intentional. Bad writers were told to spin why girls couldn't be made into Marines...so the lore changed. It wasn't some great Author like Robert Heinline or anything making this choice. They couldn't manufacture female figurines to the same quality at first.
They soft reboot the rules all the time; and retcons DO exist already in the lore. I think in 2016 we can accept that more women would like this hobby if there were plastics that represented women on the table top.
This is not me calling anyone here an OVERT sexist. I'm making that distinction here politely because as a man it took me a long time to understand the difference well as I do. I'm not a woman, and I don't think about how women would feel at first glance. However, I have talked to many women gamers over the years whin play Magic, or D&D, including my current girlfriend. All of whom have expressed they would love to play as space marines if it wasn't segregated.
Every time I mentioned sisters, but explained that they were not actual Marines they all found it to be placating and offensive to different degrees. Many were very vocal about it.
I've had a game store owner tell me primarily men were targeted with Sisters of battle, so Games Workshop openly discussed with store owners how they would be "sexed up a bit." To put it in his words. It was a product made to target men featuring women...and while I hope the rumored new line will change that, it's still not the same thing I'd hope would be available to young female gamers like your daughter. =)
Those X-Wing ships are piloted, and there are pilot cards. From what I recall of the original movies, NONE of the pilots were female. Neither Rebel nor Empire. Although there was that one old, fat dude (Porkins!).
The fact is, the 40k Universe does not have female Space Marines, any more than the Star Wars universe had female Jedi or female heroes of any sort. At least, not until Lucas was removed. There is a deliberate, overt sexism that pervades both 40k and Star Wars and that is both part and parcel of the IP. It is part of the game, in the same way that Nazis are part of Flames of War, and Confederates are part of any ACW game. For how terrible of a game that 40k has become, it is better that it not become more inclusive simply to hasten its replacement with something else.
I don't think that women are well-served playing 40k Space Marines as any sort of proxy for themselves. But rather as a statement of how stupidly brutal (or brutally stupid ) the males of the 40k universe happen to be.
Finally, the case may be made that all of the Cadian plastics are female. Under all that the heavy armor and cloth, they might as well be female - you can't tell at all.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Those X-Wing ships are piloted, and there are pilot cards. From what I recall of the original movies, NONE of the pilots were female.
And there were no female Jedi in the original movies, either. Your argument is ridiculous and you know it.
Star Wars prequels have Ayla Secura as a female Jedi. She was also in the not bad clone wars kids show. Which is still canon. We also have Rey from the new movie obviously. There's 2!!! Haha.
Gamgee wrote: Star Wars prequels have Ayla Secura as a female Jedi. She was also in the not bad clone wars kids show. Which is still canon. We also have Rey from the new movie obviously. There's 2!!! Haha.
Neither of which were the original three movies, though. Basically, John Hwang sees Lucas' lazy casting and assumes that it was a conscious decision, which is silly, but pretty much par for the course for him.
Gamgee wrote: Star Wars prequels have Ayla Secura as a female Jedi. She was also in the not bad clone wars kids show. Which is still canon. We also have Rey from the new movie obviously. There's 2!!! Haha.
Neither of which were the original three movies, though. Basically, John Hwang sees Lucas' lazy casting and assumes that it was a conscious decision, which is silly, but pretty much par for the course for him.
Oh, I'm sorry that I merely stated the obvious, and apologize that you reacted by getting your panties all twisted up.
In any case, GW has already settled the female Space Marine question, and I don't see the old men in charge of the property going back on their decision. But go ahead and bark at that wall for all the good that it does you.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Oh, I'm sorry that I merely stated the obvious, and apologize that you reacted by getting your panties all twisted up.
In any case, GW has already settled the female Space Marine question, and I don't see the old men in charge of the property going back on their decision. But go ahead and bark at that wall for all the good that it does you.
I'm out, good luck.
John, talk like THAT above ^^^ is sexist when talking to a woman, and really sexist in general when talking to anyone.
what you don't understand is that times are changing. Hunger Games and Game of Thrones in particular have shifted things. The decision to cast a Female lead in both the new Star Wars, and the Rebel One spin off are directly a result of women revitalizing sci and fantasy audiences. The same can be said for Super Hero movies moving closer to Female leads in recent years (which I suspect will catch up to Sci and Fantasy soon.)
This isn't something that will remain the same. The "lore" for Space Marines will stay all male until there is a financial reason to embrace this sort of change in terms of potential audience and customers. War Machine was developed with these very thoughts in mind, since it's both financially sound, and the right thing to do in terms of the current civilized society we live in.
I grew up with a bunch of male nerd friends, gaming in basements, and I treasure those friendships and that time in my life. But I sincerely wish gaming had been more of a unisex acceptable activity in the 90's. I think female friends of mine would have totally joined in the fun in High School, but stigmas existed then which are being torn down now.
What would it matter if we finally got real imperial guard plastics with women that looked the part? Not sexualized, but empowering? That matches the current fluff as you pointed out.
And what would a retcon focusing on making Space Marines Unisex, or at the very least making a lost legion all female really hurt? A couple gakky novels where Fabious Bile created Female Space Marine monsters get retconned? GREAT. After that maybe we can get a few good writers who have actually seen or had a vagina to rewrite that lame and offensive part of 40K novella history.
Think "Captain Picard and the crew of the USS Enterprise."
Not particularly strong weaponry, but interesting movement mechanics.
"Beam Me Up, Scotty: During the movement phase, you may elect to return a unit with this special rule back to ongoing reserves. It auto-passes the reserves roll on the following turn and enters via deepstrike."
Blasters that fire at S2 or 3, but have concussive.
That sort of thing.
We can call the faction "The Observers." Time traveling humans from another time period.
Please take the "what is sexist" debate elsewhere (feel free to start a thread in Dakka Discussion if there isn't one currently).
On-topic: I think I would get fired from this hypothetical job because I would simply explain that not only is adding a new faction unnecessary but also that doing so would be terrible for the brand. Fired or promoted, I guess. I read through all the ideas and the closest thing to something that could work is "make a new marine factions somehow" (Stormcast Liberators!) - although "make SM but have them be women" is also terrible.
If I had to create an ALL NEW army, I think I'd create a XZenos Race and call them when explaining the concept "the sorcerer kings" and basicly make it a army of chaff backed up with psykic support. maybe borrow from the 1k sons marines where the squad sergent is a psyker.
to play right though you'd need to ensure this new race wasn't battle buddies with anyone.
BrianDavion wrote: If I had to create an ALL NEW army, I think I'd create a XZenos Race and call them when explaining the concept "the sorcerer kings" and basicly make it a army of chaff backed up with psykic support. maybe borrow from the 1k sons marines where the squad sergent is a psyker.
to play right though you'd need to ensure this new race wasn't battle buddies with anyone.
See the bolded. That gives me a hilarious idea.
Zeno's race:
All of the rules would be a parody of Zeno's parodoxes.
Basically, all of the models would be unfinished depictions of greek men holding scrolls and wearing togas.
The relic wargear would be "The 40 paradoxes of Zeno." (I forget how many there actually were.)
"Any unit within 12 inches of this model, before it moves the full movement distance, must move half that distance. But before it moves half that distance, it again must move half of that distance. Etc. If more than 3 units are within 12 inches of this model, reality breaks down and the game ends."
Manchu wrote: Please take the "what is sexist" debate elsewhere (feel free to start a thread in Dakka Discussion if there isn't one currently).
On-topic: I think I would get fired from this hypothetical job because I would simply explain that not only is adding a new faction unnecessary but also that doing so would be terrible for the brand. Fired or promoted, I guess. I read through all the ideas and the closest thing to something that could work is "make a new marine factions somehow" (Stormcast Liberators!) - although "make SM but have them be women" is also terrible.
I'm actually not fine with that.
I feel I've been on topic. It WOULD grow the brand to make Space Marines and Imperial Guard inclusive to women gamers. You WOULD make more money, and it would probably be successful.
However the deeper problem I have here is your comment. Why exactly would a Female Space Marine Chapter representing one of the two lost chapters be terrible?
OR, more to the point, why would making Space Marines Unisex be terrible through retcons? Women have been included in the American Draft recently. I don't see why this fantasy sci fi setting couldn't adapt to the times since major retcons have occurred before.
I am going to make that thread you suggest, but I ask you as a moderator to really think about the post you just made. It doesn't feel all that inclusive to me.
My GF just read your post...and her reply to it was this was: "Wow." in the most flat sarcastic tone you've ever heard. Pfft.
Very quick aside to clarify for other readers (all further comms on the point should be via PM or you can start a thread in Nuts & Bolts) - Dakka Dakka moderators have no duty to push an ideology, whether "inclusiveness" or whatever else.
Now back to posting on the topic of miniatures ... "take X but make them women" is simply dumb. In fairness, I guess you are more interested in co-ed Chapters, a la some Imperial Guard regiments. But this would require overhauling SM fluff. The current brand is heavily anchored in the iconic imagery of medieval Christian militant religious orders. Adding women, by itself, would dilute rather than strengthen that brand. By contrast, the opposite is true (IMO at least) of Imperial Guard. But I think the main issues there relate to producing the models.
And mate, please don't bother to tell me what your GF thinks of my posts, I don't care.
Manchu wrote: Very quick aside to clarify for other readers (all further comms on the point should be via PM or you can start a thread in Nuts & Bolts) - Dakka Dakka moderators have no duty to push an ideology, whether "inclusiveness" or whatever else.
Now back to posting on the topic of miniatures ... "take X but make them women" is simply dumb. In fairness, I guess you are more interested in co-ed Chapters, a la some Imperial Guard regiments. But this would require overhauling SM fluff. The current brand is heavily anchored in the iconic imagery of medieval Christian militant religious orders. Adding women, by itself, would dilute rather than strengthen that brand. By contrast, the opposite is true (IMO at least) of Imperial Guard. But I think the main issues there relate to producing the models.
And mate, please don't bother to tell me what your GF thinks of my posts, I don't care.
Have to agree with Manchu here. It's not about not having women, it's about "take X but make them women" being a dumb idea. Do it to Necrons or Chaos or Tyranids, guess what, it's still dumb. Why not make a cool new faction with women?
Or just include more female models in factions that already are supposed to include women? (IG, Tau, Eldar, DE, Mechanicus, Inquisition, Necrons?) That would actually strengthen the existing brand.
Ah yes, female Necrons with metal boobs even though they're supposed to be skeletal.
For all we know, the models could be female. Whether you try to make it obvious by greenstuffing boobs is up to you. Anrakyr already comes with a skirt sooooooo...
It's been a while since I read the 5E dex ... are Necron's bodies literally a metal-infused Necrontyr skeleton? Or are they robot bodies that kinda sorta look like skeletons?
So I guess they could have boobs then. (Not saying they should - not even sure if there are male and female Necrontyr, much less whether potential female ones would have had boobs in life.) In any case, there are plenty of 40k factions that already do include women and yes it would be nice to have some female models of them ... just hard to incorporate them into multipart plastic sprue where the intent is to have as much customization possibility as you can. I guess you could have, for example, a box of Dire Avengers and one sprue would be male Eldar and the other sprue would be girl Eldar. But it sounds expensive to me, someone at HQ would have to run the numbers on whether this would actually make people buy more of 'em in the long term.
There is a lot more that GW could do with their existing 40k factions before even thinking of starting a new one up ... and I just don't see any room for a new one. Alternatively, I would like to see more aliens in the Tau list.
Manchu wrote: So I guess they could have boobs then. (Not saying they should - not even sure if there are male and female Necrontyr, much less whether potential female ones would have had boobs in life.) In any case, there are plenty of 40k factions that already do include women and yes it would be nice to have some female models of them ... just hard to incorporate them into multipart plastic sprue where the intent is to have as much customization possibility as you can. I guess you could have, for example, a box of Dire Avengers and one sprue would be male Eldar and the other sprue would be girl Eldar. But it sounds expensive to me, someone at HQ would have to run the numbers on whether this would actually make people buy more of 'em in the long term.
There is a lot more that GW could do with their existing 40k factions before even thinking of starting a new one up ... and I just don't see any room for a new one. Alternatively, I would like to see more aliens in the Tau list.
So was my last post deleted just now? Because I'm pretty sure I wasn't offensive towards you "Mate".
As for running the numbers. The manager of the GW store near me even recently admitted there's more new female gamers than men almost three to one in sci-fi and fantasy post Hunger Games when we had this talk two days ago.
The brand would in fact expand, and there's been much bigger retcons than just making unisex marines. It happened with Magic...it happened with D&D. Women gamers are a paying audience.
Not to mention, again, as a guy who has to listen to talk of fictional universes and their potential branding all day (*since that's my GF's job as an agent who works with major publishers)...she could probably run those numbers for you if you wanted to see what properties are adapting to other mediums while making a profit in YA, Sci-Fi, Urban Fantasy, and High Fantasy.
I get the customizing argument...my answer to that is make most regiments unisex 50/50 in armies that have that established in cannon. You don't have to add more sprues or anything, and your options would be about the same honestly if you don't make all the girls scantily clad.
The funny part was I was following your instructions and writing a larger intro post to the thread you advised I make, and I'm seeing you edited a few of your posts, so I'm not sure why mine was deleted.
Manchu wrote: (all further comms on the point should be via PM or you can start a thread in Nuts & Bolts
As to your on-topic points:
Herecomesyourman wrote: I get the customizing argument...my answer to that is make most regiments unisex 50/50 in armies that have that established in cannon. You don't have to add more sprues or anything, and your options would be about the same honestly if you don't make all the girls scantily clad.
But that doesn't address the issue at all. IG with female headswaps look ridiculously bad. Even if IG were done to have more, well, human proportions, I don't think that would make a male body anymore fungible with a female one. But as for having a female sprue in the box along with a male sprue, I'd be most excited to see it with IG.
Herecomesyourman wrote:I get the customizing argument...my answer to that is make most regiments unisex 50/50 in armies that have that established in cannon. You don't have to add more sprues or anything, and your options would be about the same honestly if you don't make all the girls scantily clad.
As a consumer, I don't want female space marines. My armies are manly clubs for men. No girls allowed.
Female space marines, for me personally, would ruin the aesthetic.
Finally:
I wish to note this entire discussion is off-topic. Even if you added female space marines, in what respect would this be the creation of a "new faction"?
Traditio wrote: I was under the impression that this is basically what Adepta Sororitas is.
LOL - SoB are my favorite army. Sure they are nuns with guns (and power armor) and SM are monks with guns (and power armor) but here's what I like about SoB:
Manchu wrote: I'd say it's their defining feature. It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" So instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in that power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch.
Pure. Badass.
To me, Sisters are different from SM not because they are women but because they are physically just regular humans. They really represent the very core of the Imperium's value system, in all its stark zealotry, brutality, and yes even nobility. Just another example of how the existing factions amount to great setting coverage.
Traditio wrote: I wish to note this entire discussion is off-topic. Even if you added female space marines, in what respect would this be the creation of a "new faction"?
It may not qualify strictly under OP's guidelines but that debate is not worth having. Femarines would be novel enough to constitute a "new faction" (in the same sense that GW adding them would ruin the 40k aesthetic for you, by your own account).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Guess this needs to go on this page, too:
Manchu wrote: Please take the "what is sexist" debate elsewhere (feel free to start a thread in Dakka Discussion if there isn't one currently)..
Manchu wrote: So I guess they could have boobs then. (Not saying they should - not even sure if there are male and female Necrontyr, much less whether potential female ones would have had boobs in life.) In any case, there are plenty of 40k factions that already do include women and yes it would be nice to have some female models of them ... just hard to incorporate them into multipart plastic sprue where the intent is to have as much customization possibility as you can. I guess you could have, for example, a box of Dire Avengers and one sprue would be male Eldar and the other sprue would be girl Eldar. But it sounds expensive to me, someone at HQ would have to run the numbers on whether this would actually make people buy more of 'em in the long term.
There is a lot more that GW could do with their existing 40k factions before even thinking of starting a new one up ... and I just don't see any room for a new one. Alternatively, I would like to see more aliens in the Tau list.
Forget the Tau, anime is about as alien as it gets.
Five new Necron models based on the sphinx that combine to create one superheavy!!!
Didn't the Great Crusade wipe out a race of such things?
In all honesty, I think it exterminated every xenos threat outside of orks and Eldar, besides those which were not yet active in the galaxy during that period.
This is actually my argument for why Tau belong in 40k: they represent not only how humanity has declined since the days before the Heresy but by implication just how vastly powerful the Imperium once was. The Tau are like a tuft of weeds growing up through a crack in the aspalt - zoom out and realize the ground is paved in thousands of miles in every direction.
No, because that wouldn't be energy beings. Also it'd be stupid, much like most of Blizzard's writing.
Like the dredge from Titan AE? that could be neat. and as for the protoss... I like them, but they are certainly not pure energy, they have advanced and different technology than terrans (or the IoM) but are still very much biological beings
After reading through all the suggestions I still am going to go with my idea of what is basically Fascist Space Penguins. 40K is suppose to be a parody of sorts and honestly the IoM is not xenophobic enough to properly parody fascism and racism. We need comically racist space penguins who hate all other species with such distain and hatred that they are come the apocalypse with every factions. Similar to the Dalek except less robot, more exaggerated, while being flightless birds.
They always emphasize daemons of the warp and evil gods, but why not have angels and good celestial forces. Maybe a reawakening or returning of old ones. They could explore all sorts of greek god concepts. Finally kill off the emperor and allow progress in the story by not being so reliant on his psychic pathways or whatever crap they need him for.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also this just came to me... MORMONS IN SPACE! and or SCIENTOLOGISTS! that is some untapped science fiction that has been unexplored in tabletop battles.
These technically are not Huruds as they have been clearly shown not to be anything like skavens/ratmen
Such a shame they did not go through with Jess Goodwin's plans for a 40k equivalent of the rats.
I simply love the steampunk/WW1 look of these, the Skaven always struck me as a faction that would perfectly fit in the 40K universe, especially now that the old world is gone. I imagine them as a poor accuracy, ranged based army with weird and dangerous weapons that rarely hit but when they do they hit hard. Mostly based on poison attacks, gas based artillery, airships/blimps as air units and so on.
I would create a small army of the world ender entities from Guardians of the Galaxy. Pretty much Sentient Synthetic Humans
Make them range in size from Wraithknight to Emperor Class Titan with an ability to take a beating and make Apocalypse games a bigger thing.
Toss in some sort of Air wing based off the ravagers and give them the powers a Thousand Sons(in their prime) air wing should have.
If you really want ground pounders?... alright Centurion Sized Clone troopers with a basic 30inch range and average weapon but comes up to 20 a squad. Powersledges for CC.
Elite-Think Perturabo's "Iron Circle"
HQ- A single upgraded ground pounders that's a bamf.
FA- Skimmer that's basically a rhino teleport Homer weapons platform that gives weapon upgrades to the local ground pounders.
HS- A land raider Skimmer weapons platform.... give it the D?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Could totally live with adding that Heli-Fortress and walker concept from the movie Avatar
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