I'm also really pleased to see they haven't "serious'd" up the pipboy screen. The goofy 50's era cartoon style is an essential counterpoint to the sheer shittiness of the Fallout universe.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Ghoul looks surprisingly unmanky. Maybe that’s something to come in post?
Fallout 4 non-ferals have a bit more depth and tan, but texture and overall looks line up, I'd say. Not sure if it will get touched up. Not sure it needs it either. It may be for the best if the zombie doesn't look to close to 2015 video game graphics.
Hard to say. Based on the older games, full Brotherhood complete with airship puts it pretty far along the Fallout timeline (though not to the end of F4).
But 76 retconned a lot more than I thought, so it could be the next tuesday based on that timeline.
Never played Halo but enjoyed the first season so hopefully Fallout will be fun too for someone who only knows that Modiphius made a board game and RPG of it.
Eh. Disappointed by the vibe of gore for the sake of gore.
It also almost looks authentic in a way that doesn't actually translate from game to show. Stuff that when done 1-1 just looks goofy in a more live-action environment.
“Fallout 4 takes place in the year 2287, ten years after the events of Fallout 3 and 210 years after the Great War, a war between the United States and China over natural resources that ended in a nuclear holocaust in 2077.”
So 9 years after the events of Fallout 4 in Boston. A lot could happen in 9 years.
Oxhorn (a popular Fallout streamer) on YouTube brought up some interesting concerns of his regarding the show from what the Vanity Fair article stated. I think he is a bit off base on some of his points but it is odd that the NCR are not mentioned. Hopefully the story does not compress the Brotherhood of Steel with the NCR to just make a typical authoritarian villain faction trope.
I think Oxhorn might be on to something, unfortunately. I imagine that the producers want to fit all the obvious fallout pieces into one show, even if it means cutting pieces off to fit them together. They don't want Fallout: New Vegas or Fallout 4. They want FALLOUT. Even the ghouls are prettied up so a generic audience will find the character appealing. That being said good writers, directors and actors can be make that into a fairly interesting story.
I mean it's only a trailer so mentioning every single thing that's going to crop up in the show would be a weird thing to expect.
Also, it might just be that having an NCR storyline with what seems to be three others (Vault, Brotherhood, Cowboy Ghoul) would have been too many eggs.
Better to keep it manageable and expand in future seasons.
More curious to see if they mention what happened to Caesar's Legion at some point but I'm not holding my breath that this show is going to be good since they most video game adaptations of RPG's haven't gone very well.
Voss wrote: Eh. Disappointed by the vibe of gore for the sake of gore.
It also almost looks authentic in a way that doesn't actually translate from game to show. Stuff that when done 1-1 just looks goofy in a more live-action environment.
What gore? I'm seeing a bit of blood, minimal severed limbs and not a single flying eyeball. What did I miss?
Twenty seven seconds in that's the Ferris wheel on the famous pier in LA (so famous I don't actually know its name ).
It's been forever since I played New Vegas, but I'm not sure if the NCR even extends that far south(west). At least early on it wasn't farther down than Shady Sands.
Twenty seven seconds in that's the Ferris wheel on the famous pier in LA (so famous I don't actually know its name ).
It's been forever since I played New Vegas, but I'm not sure if the NCR even extends that far south(west). At least early on it wasn't farther down than Shady Sands.
Ella Purnell's Lucy enters “Philly,” an apparent junkyard that is actually a town of survivors in the remnants of greater Los Angeles who cobbled together their village from scrap.
Fair enough. I was skimming that article and read the first half of that sentence that says "Philly" and I never even read the other half that said "Greater LA"
My brother is already predicting that the ghoul character is going to lose their daughter in the war and will later bond with the vault dweller as a replacement daughter. If it worked for The Last Of Us, it will work for this.
Mr Nobody wrote: My brother is already predicting that the ghoul character is going to lose their daughter in the war and will later bond with the vault dweller as a replacement daughter. If it worked for The Last Of Us, it will work for this.
Where he'll take his Ghoul mask off and we find out its really Pedro pascal playing Walton Goggins playing a ghoul all along. Can't have a surrogate child storyline without Pascal these days.
I've been burnt one too many times with video games adaptions to really want to give this a chance, I honestly thought that it would be awful the minute I heard they were going to try to do fallout as a show but this trailer had me hooked.
RexHavoc wrote: Where he'll take his Ghoul mask off and we find out its really Pedro pascal playing Walton Goggins playing a ghoul all along. Can't have a surrogate child storyline without Pascal these days.
He's actually playing one of the BOS guys, only he never takes off his helmet so he never had to be on set. He has a small baby gecko as a pet for some reason.
This is probably one of the few instances where some post would actually make things better, because watching the trailer gave me the impression of a bunch of high profile cosplayers in nature reserves. There just isn't enough grit in the visuals to feel like Fallout.
Mr Nobody wrote: My brother is already predicting that the ghoul character is going to lose their daughter in the war and will later bond with the vault dweller as a replacement daughter. If it worked for The Last Of Us, it will work for this.
Where he'll take his Ghoul mask off and we find out its really Pedro pascal playing Walton Goggins playing a ghoul all along. Can't have a surrogate child storyline without Pascal these days.
I've been burnt one too many times with video games adaptions to really want to give this a chance, I honestly thought that it would be awful the minute I heard they were going to try to do fallout as a show but this trailer had me hooked.
The positive thing is, they only need slightly better writing than bugthesda, not a difficult hurdle to take.
Also filler episodes full of just wandering around and clearing out procedurally generated dungeons would be on brand.
Looking forward to this. While I’ve not played the first couple Fallout games, I’m a fan of the franchise. And while Amazon has a track record of butchering things, I’ve got low expectations. And from a big sandbox setting, there are less sacred cows to worry about.
Geifer wrote: It's the West Coast. I want a 6,1% chance per episode that the protagonist dies to a critical hit and the show just ends.
No, that will end the episode with a fade to black/roll credits, and then the next episode will start with some loading tip and rewind the story about 15 minutes and try again.
I feel like The Master of the Enclave are the most natural fit, considering they hold a threat level above the other factions and are an easy enough to explain why other people in the Wasteland need to band together to fight against them. They also lend a bit of a slow burn build up compared to the other ones who don't have as much of an ominous foreboding presence that doesn't get into your face as much the Legion would be.
Personally I prefer the Master just because i feel the Enclave would come across as having SW Empire tropes on TV versus how elite they were supposed to be in game and I'd be worried how their Enclave troops would be turned into Stormtroopers, bad aim and all.
I have no proof, but I'm pretty sure I nuked the Master. It would be very rude of him to come back from being atomized.
I'm not sure the West Coast classics have much of a reason to appear given the show is set after New Vegas and Fallout 4. The Master is dead, the Enclave is gone, the Brotherhood is diminished. I don't know if we have a canonical end for New Vegas, but I assume the NCR is the only larger power left. I wonder if the Brotherhood of Steel, which the trailer makes out to have visible strength, are the East Coast guys coming back to reestablish their presence.
Also, do we know if the show is meant to have multiple seasons? Strikes me as a bit odd to have the vault dweller leaving the vault plot and sending her up against a larger power right from the start. I'd expect more of an RPG development where she saves the town from a raider boss or rampaging deathclaw as the season's climax.
For a bit of wider politics, the Brotherhood could easily take the apparent savior of the wasteland role only for the main character to figure out they're just a particularly well equipped band of raiders. Would provide a bit of back and forth with loyalties and the opportunity for the Brotherhood to make a comeback as something comparable to good guys in a later season when the real threat is revealed and the wasteland factions have to band together to stop it.
Also, do we know if the show is meant to have multiple seasons? Strikes me as a bit odd to have the vault dweller leaving the vault plot and sending her up against a larger power right from the start. I'd expect more of an RPG development where she saves the town from a raider boss or rampaging deathclaw as the season's climax.
For a bit of wider politics, the Brotherhood could easily take the apparent savior of the wasteland role only for the main character to figure out they're just a particularly well equipped band of raiders. Would provide a bit of back and forth with loyalties and the opportunity for the Brotherhood to make a comeback as something comparable to good guys in a later season when the real threat is revealed and the wasteland factions have to band together to stop it.
If they fallow the current trend they'll have a first season with semi-contained story ark. Closed enough to end their but with enough open plot lines to come back for another season. The vault dweller will need to defeat a large band of raiders but a turn in the plot will set the BOT as a future enemy. Maybe they start friendly and aid in destroying the raiders only to turn around and start pressing their authority. Demanding technology and resources as support for the cause.
Or they kill the ghoul character and some other mutants in a hail of bullets.
Compared with just about every other recent adaptation of stuff that's had me going "But that's not x/y/z!"; this makes me want to replay Fallout 3... yet again.
The newest trailer is pretty underwhelming for me, and seeing the director's comment on basically not even trying to appeal to fans seems very offputting and a red flag on the whole show if that's his mindset towards it.
Are you ever going to please every single fan? No, of course not. That’s basically impossible.
But that’s not the problem here. The problem with this show, and with so many other recent adaptations, is that they’re not even TRYING to please the fans. They’re going after some “modern audience” that doesn’t actually exist, and then go out of their way to trash the fans that DO exist and tell them they suck for not liking the gakky adaptation.
We've seen this repeatedly with series like Halo and The Witcher, and it's weird because there have been well done adaptations that are clearly aimed towards the fans like Deadpool, Arcane, and Peter Jackson's LoTR but somehow these types of directors and creators seem to ignore them and pretend they don't exist. Heck, the first Sonic live action movie is a case study in doing things right in terms of listening to your core audience.
Grimskul wrote: The newest trailer is pretty underwhelming for me, and seeing the director's comment on basically not even trying to appeal to fans seems very offputting and a red flag on the whole show if that's his mindset towards it.
Are you ever going to please every single fan? No, of course not. That’s basically impossible.
But that’s not the problem here. The problem with this show, and with so many other recent adaptations, is that they’re not even TRYING to please the fans. They’re going after some “modern audience” that doesn’t actually exist, and then go out of their way to trash the fans that DO exist and tell them they suck for not liking the gakky adaptation.
We've seen this repeatedly with series like Halo and The Witcher, and it's weird because there have been well done adaptations that are clearly aimed towards the fans like Deadpool, Arcane, and Peter Jackson's LoTR but somehow these types of directors and creators seem to ignore them and pretend they don't exist. Heck, the first Sonic live action movie is a case study in doing things right in terms of listening to your core audience.
? They have the iconic music, the iconic look, as a huge Fallout 3 fan - this looks and feels like Fallout - to me at least?
Grimskul wrote: The newest trailer is pretty underwhelming for me, and seeing the director's comment on basically not even trying to appeal to fans seems very offputting and a red flag on the whole show if that's his mindset towards it.
Are you ever going to please every single fan? No, of course not. That’s basically impossible.
But that’s not the problem here. The problem with this show, and with so many other recent adaptations, is that they’re not even TRYING to please the fans. They’re going after some “modern audience” that doesn’t actually exist, and then go out of their way to trash the fans that DO exist and tell them they suck for not liking the gakky adaptation.
We've seen this repeatedly with series like Halo and The Witcher, and it's weird because there have been well done adaptations that are clearly aimed towards the fans like Deadpool, Arcane, and Peter Jackson's LoTR but somehow these types of directors and creators seem to ignore them and pretend they don't exist. Heck, the first Sonic live action movie is a case study in doing things right in terms of listening to your core audience.
I think you may have missed the point Jonathan Nolan was was making. He wasn't saying he's ignored what Fallout is about. Rather, he's saying they just tried to make a series based on Fallout without worrying about how fans might perceive it. That seems logical to me. If you have enough respect for the source material and keep that in mind while making the series the outcome should be that fans of the games are happy, but you don't have to keep thinking about how to appeal to them directly.
On the surface this seems to have nailed not only the look of the modern Fallout games but the tone as well, which is a good sign at this stage. Who knows, there may be some stupid plot running through the whole thing that has nothing to do with Fallout at all and ruins everything, but for now I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.
I think you may have missed the point Jonathan Nolan was was making. He wasn't saying he's ignored what Fallout is about. Rather, he's saying they just tried to make a series based on Fallout without worrying about how fans might perceive it. That seems logical to me. If you have enough respect for the source material and keep that in mind while making the series the outcome should be that fans of the games are happy, but you don't have to keep thinking about how to appeal to them directly.
On the surface this seems to have nailed not only the look of the modern Fallout games but the tone as well, which is a good sign at this stage. Who knows, there may be some stupid plot running through the whole thing that has nothing to do with Fallout at all and ruins everything, but for now I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.
Very much this. While it was reported to make better clickbait, he was simply explaining the difference between making a show specifically for fan service and making a good show based on the property. The former results in pointless fan service, while the latter (assuming the application of sufficient talent and resources) results in a good show that will inherently please the fans without that being its sole purpose for existing.
And that’s me on the eighth and final episode of this season.
It’s good. Really good. Whilst not the most experienced Fallout player? This looks a s feels the part.
They’ve clearly understood what makes the game’s story and setting compelling. The world feels lived in.
It’s not short on action, violence and even gore, but keeps a distinct sense of humour about itself. None of it is overdone, not even the Easter Eggs. Shots linger just enough for “eh, eh, remember this, eh?”, without making that the entire shot.
It’s night and day with the Halo show, which was just plain old boring. Here, I care about our characters. Their motivations make sense, even if they’re not necessarily likeable in thought or deed.
Genuinely wonderful stuff. Not for kids, and some might find the humour a bit off kilter. But it worked really nicely for me, and I’ll be back for S2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, but Pro Tip?
Skip the “coming this season” at the end of the first season. You don’t need to see that.
Was not expecting to like it so much, but maybe because those hacks of Bethesda weren't doing the writing for once, we actually got a decent story with interesting plot points that really felt at home in the setting and damn it, a lot of this stuff should go into a future game.
Some stuff I still didn't like, such as the power armour sometimes really looking like someone in a rubber suit at times, what they did with the NCR, the cartoonishly evil Vault experiment unveiling and where the next season is going, though this last one is a personal one for me.. as it's nodding towards for me personally to one of the best games in the series, don't you dare mess this up.
I did love that the world is in places green showing that it can recover and become alive again, has that delightful dark comedy of the earlier games, we've Matt Berry, Chris Parnell, Michael Emerson (once again crippled and with a dog companion, ha!) and holy gak, is that the original 10mm pistol design from the first two games?!
Main cast was also a lot of fun and ha, the golden rule of the wasteland, they really do know their source material.
It also follows the overall formula of a Fallout game. I don’t know if it’s a repackaging of an existing plot though (again, only played Fallout 4).
The nods and winks are all there though. Not in a lingering or smashing you round the face with it whilst bellowing how clever they are. They’re…just there. Recognisable brands and symbols and stuff, scattered through the general environment. For me, reminiscent of the Easter Egg posters and graffiti in Dredd. If you know, you know and you’ll spot them, but not a single one is a plot hook to baffle the uninitiated.
I think a big chunk? It’s, stripped back, a really simple story. And told well.
The set dressing and visual factors that made the games popular have been comfortably relied upon to work that magic again.
They’ve not mucked about with it. No reimagining. No “my head canon must now be canon” type, well, i guess, arrogance.
And a TV Series is absolutely the format for it. It wouldn’t work as a movie. And the eight episodes feel about right in individual and collective length.
Props for resisting side quests as well. For the most part. There’s the gist and feel of them, but never at the expense of the main tale.
Enough fallout to be fallout, enough story to be great fun tv (it's not a direct plot from one of the games, but it could easily be which is a compliment both to the TV writers and the game writers)
i'd agree there were the odd moments where the effects budget or timeframe didn't quite make it, but i've seen worse in really big budget movies (and other huge budget tv) series.
it's even getting good writeups from critics
here's hoping we get more (assuming they've got an equally good story to tell)
It ended on a suitable cliff-hanger / open ending, but because of the game it is referencing in that final scene, it has some very large shoes to fill.
Saw first episode. Really amazed how well they’ve managed to pull off everything looking like Fallout. Very much in the spirit of Fallout 3 and 4 with a few scenes almost recreated.
I am unsure if somebody new to Fallout would understand as I was confused regarding what was up considering the factions introduced and the location; as well who so far hasn’t been introduced. But that is presenting a good mystery. I think they know we want to know and are teasing us rather than a lack of thought.
Spoiler:
Since they’re in California I would have thought the NCR would have a big presence. The Brotherhood have mentioned they are going to California implying they don’t operate in area because the Brotherhood is there.
Safe to assume that the Brotherhood went after the NCR then?
Spoiler:
NCR been mentioned but they are in California. The Brotherhood are after somebody who fled an Enclave base. It’s mainly from the perspective of a vault dweller who doesn’t know what’s going on and a rookie recruit into the Brotherhood. There are a few lines that suggest the Brotherhood are moving into the area implying they don’t normally operate there. Nothing explicit mind. But yeah they didn’t have to set it in California to tell the story they have so far so it must have some tie into either the NCR or the Master. Everything else they can kind of do elsewhere.
Not real show spoilers except for the ending scene, but may be spoilers for people who want to play games like say.. New Vegas.
Re: NCR
Spoiler:
NCR got nuked and taken out of the picture, which really pisses me off that they so easily write the NCR off like that. This is a massive faction that grew from a small farming town made up of Vault 15 survivors into a, for better or for worse, an attempt at pre-war society. This is the faction that has beaten Caesar's Legion and they get removed from the setting so easily, it really pisses me off, especially because this is canon.
Re: Brotherhood of Steel
Spoiler:
The Brotherhood we're following are the donkey-caves from the Capitol wastes and Commonwealth, if you've played F3 and F4, you know why they're such donkey-caves, it's why they have the Prydwen. The original Brotherhood has fractured and lost a lot over the years, with them being on the verge of extinction by the time New Vegas took place, having lost a massive battle against the NCR and depending on player actions, either allied with the NCR after the second battle for Hoover Dam or died out as the isolationist donkey-caves they were, because they were not nice neighbours to have around.
Re: the ending scene
Spoiler:
It is indeed New Vegas where the story is moving towards, which makes me wonder what ending of that game is made canon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Fallout as a series is near and dear to my heart, whinge aside, I did enjoy the show a lot, even if I personally only consider Fallout, Fallout 2 and New Vegas canon. But that might be because these games have been done by the same people and neatly tied it all together while keeping the tone and style intact.
Also.. no radiant quests. Or uninspired writing from Bethesda's hacks.
You know my only complaint? Amazon dumping it all at once. I watched 6 episodes today because I wanted to come back to see what was next.
The show was absolutely good enough to do as a weekly release.
Having never played any of the games, I have no idea if what I'm watching is accurate to them or not.
But the show looks great & I've enjoyed all 5 episodes I've seen so far....
Gert wrote: You know my only complaint? Amazon dumping it all at once. I watched 6 episodes today because I wanted to come back to see what was next.
The show was absolutely good enough to do as a weekly release.
Some people will complain if a series is dropped weekly, others if it is dropped in a block - I don't really think Amazon (or any streaming platform) can really win here.
Personally, I'd prefer weekly too, but it isn't the biggest deal in the world.
Only watched one episode so far as I'm happy to take my time with it. So far so good, seems good within the game universe. Just a few minor quibbles but nothing to worry about.
Fantastic. Hilarious and completely captures the spirit of Fallout. It got me.
I loved the twist with the NCR. They set up where everyone is a monster and the reveal that they’re the good guys and there isn’t some sinister super weapon when she presses the button to turn the lights back on. I did think when the Vaults say “we’re going to build a new America” that well they’ll be disappointed to learn they got beat to the punchline. I can understand being annoyed at them turning the clock back but I think it gives them a great premise to work with in future seasons and I am entirely sold on it. I don’t think people who did that Ranger scene were people who didn’t like the faction and it’s far more pro NCR than New Vegas.
Definitely leaves the door open for something like either the reform the Minutemen situation for the NCR or an Elder Lyon’s esque thing with Maximus. They spent the time to establish that after Shady Sands went lots of them went to back to their farms with their gear. That is exactly the same as the Minutemen and with a very evil version of the Brotherhood trying to rule California; it seems set up for that.
Surprised at the Enclave misdirect. Vault Tec sort of fulfills the same role and had the same idea as the Enclave. Maybe they’re going to have a second reveal in season 2. The Enclave Scientist did know about the vaults and her father; so I am guessing that’s the case. Which could be setting up a big enclave war either against the NCR or Brotherhood.
But yeah, it’s Fallout and it is by people who love the games.
The only thing that annoyed me was Lucy not killing her Dad. I felt her holding back wasn’t right in that moment and it was a little too heavy handed to set things up for next season.
I’m aware the games at least heavily implied Vault-Tec deliberately set off the apocalypse. But the show is completely explicit about it. Is that new lore?
Fallout 3 shows an undetonated bomb with vault tec id on it, and in fallout 4 theres definitely some logs that suggest it. But the show is the first time they have 100% confirmed it. It was always left as an unknown as to who started the apocalypse, vault tec being responsible was just hinted at.
Tamereth wrote: Fallout 3 shows an undetonated bomb with vault tec id on it, and in fallout 4 theres definitely some logs that suggest it. But the show is the first time they have 100% confirmed it. It was always left as an unknown as to who started the apocalypse, vault tec being responsible was just hinted at.
Well, we now know Vault-Tec intended to do it. There’s perhaps (in my limited knowledge) still the possibility someone else beat them to that punch.
I think it was heavily implied in previous games that China was the one who launched the nukes first and it's possible this change to pushing Vault Tec to be the more likely suspect is tied to Amazon not wanting to piss off the China market since I believe this show is also aired there.
That or its the showrunner/director doing a good job of demonising corporatism and capitalism?
Y'know like Fallout is supposed to do? Vault-tec isn't exactly a good company and them manipulating world events to maximise profits and establish a super monopoly is a but cartoonist but that's also still very Fallout.
Gert wrote: That or its the showrunner/director doing a good job of demonising corporatism and capitalism? Y'know like Fallout is supposed to do? Vault-tec isn't exactly a good company and them manipulating world events to maximise profits and establish a super monopoly is a but cartoonist but that's also still very Fallout.
It's a bit rich for you to be cheering on the show demonising capitalism when its being produced by one of the most capitalistic companies in the world and you're contributing to what I assume you think is a great evil in the world.
Also, have you not seen how much Hollywood bends over backwards to try and get some of that sweet Chinese money, including Disney thanking China explicitly for allowing them to film Mulan in Xinjiang, where the Uyghur genocides are currently taking place. It goes even farther back all the way in 2015, when the movie Pixels was only allowed to be released in China if they removed the scene where aliens burst through the Great Wall of China, showing how sensitive and controlling a totalitarian dictatorship is of their public image (who would have guessed!) and actively removing Finn from the Star Wars movie posters in China to appeal more to the Chinese audience? I don't think it's unrealistic to think that there's some self-censorship going on to avoid antagonizing the Chinese given the historical precedent.
When we're basically still in a Cold War with China in the West, I don't see it as weird to be aware of the soft power they have over Western entertainment (I have Hong Kong ancestry so it's a very real issue for me/and my family). Also, Vault Tec was already unambiguously evil to begin with, so you do you if you think them launching the nukes is top tier writing, but it's like putting chocolate icing on chocolate, it's more of the same rather than the nuance of how anyone could have actually caused the Great War to take place as it was a powder keg of MAD.
Next thing you'll be telling me in the next season is that seeing deathclaws kill people with their claws is revolutionary and brilliant, bravo Nolan, bravo!
Fantastic. Hilarious and completely captures the spirit of Fallout. It got me.
I loved the twist with the NCR. They set up where everyone is a monster and the reveal that they’re the good guys and there isn’t some sinister super weapon when she presses the button to turn the lights back on. I did think when the Vaults say “we’re going to build a new America” that well they’ll be disappointed to learn they got beat to the punchline. I can understand being annoyed at them turning the clock back but I think it gives them a great premise to work with in future seasons and I am entirely sold on it. I don’t think people who did that Ranger scene were people who didn’t like the faction and it’s far more pro NCR than New Vegas.
Definitely leaves the door open for something like either the reform the Minutemen situation for the NCR or an Elder Lyon’s esque thing with Maximus. They spent the time to establish that after Shady Sands went lots of them went to back to their farms with their gear. That is exactly the same as the Minutemen and with a very evil version of the Brotherhood trying to rule California; it seems set up for that.
Surprised at the Enclave misdirect. Vault Tec sort of fulfills the same role and had the same idea as the Enclave. Maybe they’re going to have a second reveal in season 2. The Enclave Scientist did know about the vaults and her father; so I am guessing that’s the case. Which could be setting up a big enclave war either against the NCR or Brotherhood.
But yeah, it’s Fallout and it is by people who love the games.
The only thing that annoyed me was Lucy not killing her Dad. I felt her holding back wasn’t right in that moment and it was a little too heavy handed to set things up for next season.
I would not have said that NCR
Spoiler:
were good guys at all - they are doing very bad things to make the world a better place - like many other factions - even Vault Tec who are evil think they are making a better world.
Moldaver I found annoying tbh and we don't yet know how she has survived the few hundred years - what she did to get to the power level she is and why she was leading a rampaging band of raiders rather than NCR troops into the Vault. The nearest to "good guys" were probably the mutants in Vault 4.... who were to be fair associated with the NCR
NCR got nuked and taken out of the picture, which really pisses me off that they so easily write the NCR off like that. This is a massive faction that grew from a small farming town made up of Vault 15 survivors into a, for better or for worse, an attempt at pre-war society. This is the faction that has beaten Caesar's Legion and they get removed from the setting so easily, it really pisses me off, especially because this is canon.
Spoiler:
I didn't get the impression that the NCR as a whole is gone. Just Shady Sands as the capital, a good portion of its population and the top ranks of the government. Was there any hint that the other settlements just collapsed in the aftermath?
Seemed to me that it's just wiped out the NCR's presence around Los Angeles. Which depending on how New Vegas is decided to canonically end, might not even be that much of a blow if the NCR came out on top in Nevada.
Tamereth wrote: The only criticism I heard about it is from new vegas fanboys who hate that the NCR were diminished.
Shouldn't that be NCR fanboys instead? I never finished the game on Caesar's side, but I thought that you can choose to actively diminish the NCR yourself.
I guess Todd Howard / Bethesda finally got his revenge against Black Isle Studios / Obsidian.
It wasn't enough for him not to understand the Fallout world, to clumsily force permanent stagnation and bring the Enclave back to life all the time. He also had to do away with the only faction put forward by Black Isle / Obsidian that went against this forced stagnation.
Grimskul wrote: Also, Vault Tec was already unambiguously evil to begin with, so you do you if you think them launching the nukes is top tier writing, but it's like putting chocolate icing on chocolate, it's more of the same rather than the nuance of how anyone could have actually caused the Great War to take place as it was a powder keg of MAD.
Could you be less of a dick? You immediately jumped to "It's them darned Chinese" like you are in Fallout for gods sake.
Vault-Tec doing inhumane experiments and causing the event that allows them to do those experiments with no oversight is still a big step. Even if they just tipped the scales and caused the first bomb to drop that would still light the fuse.
I've just started up a new F4 save and the Vault-Tec rep you meet at the very very start of the game is super nervous when he's talking to you. He didn't know what Vault 111 was doing because if he did, he wouldn't have tried to get in when you see him again a few minutes later. Chances are he's been told to get everyone into his assigned Vault because some big event was coming through the grapevine at Vault-Tec. What else could possibly be coming that Vault-Tec would be excited about and why else would he be as nervous as he was?
Grimskul wrote: Also, Vault Tec was already unambiguously evil to begin with, so you do you if you think them launching the nukes is top tier writing, but it's like putting chocolate icing on chocolate, it's more of the same rather than the nuance of how anyone could have actually caused the Great War to take place as it was a powder keg of MAD.
Could you be less of a dick? You immediately jumped to "It's them darned Chinese" like you are in Fallout for gods sake.
Vault-Tec doing inhumane experiments and causing the event that allows them to do those experiments with no oversight is still a big step. Even if they just tipped the scales and caused the first bomb to drop that would still light the fuse. I've just started up a new F4 save and the Vault-Tec rep you meet at the very very start of the game is super nervous when he's talking to you. He didn't know what Vault 111 was doing because if he did, he wouldn't have tried to get in when you see him again a few minutes later. Chances are he's been told to get everyone into his assigned Vault because some big event was coming through the grapevine at Vault-Tec. What else could possibly be coming that Vault-Tec would be excited about and why else would he be as nervous as he was?
Hey, you're the one who jumped on my comment straight away when I said there could be a financial reason why it was written to favour Vault-Tec as the main culprit for the start of the nuclear exchange in the Great War, and that was to appeal to a broader demographic including China, which you made it sound as if though its a conspiracy theory even though this has precedence, particularly for big Hollywood productions (you know, the capitalists you hate so much) where they want to maximize every inch of profit and reduce risk.
Also, using Fallout 4 as the basis for support towards this theory of it being set in stone prior to the show is pretty nebulous when that's basically at the start of the era of Bethesda starting to overwrite and take over the original lore from the creators (similar to how they basically retcon the events of New Vegas with the show), but even within that context Vault-Tec, by virtue of their company being (on the surface) based around making vaults to survive a nuclear war would have early warning detection systems and as one of the biggest and most powerful companies in the US, would be one of the first people tipped off if a preemptive strike or nuclear escalation were to occur, likely far earlier than the civilian population, so it may be that they heard about nukes being launched by either the Chinese or another 3rd party and reacted accordingly. Or you could just argue that they saw the nuclear tension of the current political climate had reached its peak and were scrambling to get their subjects for experiments now before they lost the opportunity to do so.
Either way, I don't see how it adds anything to the lore to make Vault Tec like one smidge more terrible when they're already a caricature of an evil company.
Was Vault-Tec evil ? Yes. Fallout 1 & 2 are crystal clear about that. But by seemingly going the route of "Vault-Tec caused the end of the world", they (Bethesda and the show) make a mockery of what Fallout is about. Because it's not just about Vault-Tec and evil capitalists (even though capitalistics megacorporations are indeed fething evil in Fallout). Vault-Tec tried to take advantage of a hypothetical nuclear apocalypse and that was that. It's monstrous enough in itself to want to take advantage of such an event in a planned way that there's no need to go further and make the company the main instigator.
Vault-Tec was indeed deeply intertwined with the US governement through the militaro-industrial complex, but it had not taken over the US governement (afterall it would survive the nuclear apocalypse and become the Enclave). I mean, the US invaded and annexed Canada, established heavy military censorship, propaganda and control over the country and was, frankly, quite fascistic in lots of aspects (like the abduction, deportation and experimentation on Chinese Americans, etc). The US armies were also winning the war at that point. It is clear the US governement exercised great power right until the Great War.
The end of the world was not caused by one party. It was caused by all parties. Because each party didn't try to avoid it. Megacorporations tried to profit from it. The US governement was blinded by its MAD mindset and its obsession with defending the American Dream at all costs even if it meant taking over the world's ressources. China and the European Commonwealth were also guilty of the same behavior.
And even though the Great War happened, humankind seems incapable to evolve beyond this behavior. Hence the famous phrase "War never changes" which really means "Human nature never changes". The NCR was slowly following the same path as the US. The Enclave was a direct heir of the pre-war US governement. The Brotherhood of Steel focused on control instead of cooperation because of its pre-war US military legacy and thus faced heavy opposition. Robco and its CEO, Robert House, saw technological progress as the only true progress and were uninterested in building a different society (just like the pre-war world). All of them were, to quote House about the NCR and Caesar's Legion, "regurgitations of the past" (even though he is too). A past that destroyed the world.
By seemingly making Vault-Tec the main or sole instigator of the nuclear apocalypse, it diminishes Fallout's message. It's not one evil party in a sea of grey or good people. Everyone is responsible and humankind needs to try better if it wants to avoid repeating the same mistakes over and over. Only Richard Grey (the Master) tried something different but he miserably failed too.
As for the show, I had a good time. It's not great, but it's not average either. It's good. I liked all characters a lot (even though Lucy and Cooper are far more interesting than Maximus even though his character also had potential).
But I still rolled my eyes very hard when I discovered that the Shady Sands were destroyed. The justification for destroying it is stupid ("We have to destroy all factions because they wage war !" -but aren't you also a faction ? haven't you wage war by destroying another faction ?-). Also the NCR was the most interesting faction of Fallout so I cannot applaude the show for destroying it. Oh, and I cringed very hard during some scenes (like the scene with the """"cops"""" and Cooper).
As I mentioned? The reveal isn’t Vault-Tec started it. It’s more “confirmation Vault-Tec were willing to start it”.
Those are two separate propositions. And there’s space between them for other variations, such as Vault-Tec not being the first, but adding to it to ensure utter destruction.
Finished it, definitely was entertained throughout. There are some little lore issues that are a bit questionable. I had set my expectations real low though, after that LOTR show amazon slapped together.
There is a shift of critique on nation-states to critique of corporations (vault-tec). I do think this changes the feeling a bit, i'm not sure I like it, but I don't quite hate it either. It gives it more of a 'deep state' type feeling as opposed to cold war ideologically opposed governments slipping up leading to nuclear catastrophe.
The show is definitely quite good. Season 2 cant get here fast enough.
Gert wrote: That or its the showrunner/director doing a good job of demonising corporatism and capitalism?
Fallout is billed as a critique of capitalism. However it actually fails at that. Not to its detriment mind you.
The sinister goals of Vault-tec/The Enclave are actually completely counter to capitalism. The Enclave/Vault-tec are really socialists in disguise just as much as the Chinese front company Mama Dolces. The difference is they have no connection to the Chinese.
If Vault-tec were really only interested in profits, they would take advantage of the world being on the brink of nuclear war to be sure. They would sell on the fear. But they would also take steps to ensure the war never actually happened. If they just wanted to make money forever, they would just keep selling spaces in the vaults. Double or even triple booking vaults, maybe not even building many vaults but claiming they are. And they would try to just do this forever. Afterall, you can't sell spaces and make money if the war actually happens and everybody is dead.
Is it scummy to take advantage of the world being on the brink, yes. But ultimately its not evil. The evil comes in when Vault-tec decided that they would simply wipe out society as it was so they could rule as tyrants over the ashes.
Honestly, all of the examples of "Capitalism is evil" examples in Fallout actually happen when someone in the position of power does a decidedly anti-capitalist thing. Choosing a tyrannical power grab instead of maintaining the status-quo. The only thing that kinda comes close is the Pulowski Preservation Shelters. They take your money, but don't actually work. But then again the hope was they would never need to work. Scummy yes, evil no.
I hope they keep the notion of who pushed the button first ambiguous, but as is, it wasn't Vault-Tec that did it, because if they really did it, they would make sure that all vaults would be prepped in advance under the guise of drills and whatnot. A lot of vaults you come across in the games were missing key staff or even overseers, the very people they needed to run their social experiments, or did not have their full population present when it went down. The only faction really prepared for the bombs, well in advance at that, was the Enclave, with the last pre-war president hiding out on the Poseidon oil rig months before the bombs fell.
Also, Robert House, being the Howard Hughes expy that he is , had predicted when the bombs would drop, but was still surprised when the war happened earlier than expected, by a few weeks TWENTY HOURS, give or take IIRC, so he also wasn't in on when it was going to go down. I really need to replay Vegas again, Rene Auberjonois did an amazing job with him.
One fun theory that I've seen a few times with regards to the Brotherhood chapter Maximus belongs to is that they may or may not have absorbed or taken recruits from remnants of Caesar's Legion, whose vile and savage culture has seeped into the workings of that chapter. A bit far-fetched, but remember when Titus told Maximus what they would do to him when they'd get back?
Also, Maximus has got to be a low INT high LUCK build or something given how he bumbles through everything, people are having way too much fun applying game logic to the characters, like Lucy's brother having the small frame perk.
Grimskul wrote:Also, Vault Tec was already unambiguously evil to begin with, so you do you if you think them launching the nukes is top tier writing, but it's like putting chocolate icing on chocolate, it's more of the same rather than the nuance of how anyone could have actually caused the Great War to take place as it was a powder keg of MAD.
What I would've liked was for Vault Tec to cause the war by manipulating governments and events ever closer to war for their own short-term gain without realising that eventually one of those little nudges would be the straw that overflows the bucket if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor.
Yeah, while the lore has always had hints that they could have been directly responsible for the war I always viewed it as more likely that they simply were doing nudging back and forth and maybe someone nudged a little too much. It was always an ambiguous mishmash of Vault-tec, The Enclave, the Zetans, etc... as for who actually pushed the button first. So it is a bit much for them outright confirm they did it, or at least were planning to do it. The setting has always thrived on the ambiguity.
I’m aware the games at least heavily implied Vault-Tec deliberately set off the apocalypse. But the show is completely explicit about it. Is that new lore?
It is completely new lore. The actual reason was that China was losing in alaska. Though it was heavily implied that a lot of higher ups got wind that nuclear armageddon would come, hence the great game quest.
This is entierly "new lore" and arguably with the dissolution of the NCR which somehow got nuked by vault tec for no apparent reason other than sure, made to damage F1, 2 and New Vegas, which were all done by the original devs and creators of the ip which also contrary to bugthesda can write a compelling story.
I’m aware the games at least heavily implied Vault-Tec deliberately set off the apocalypse. But the show is completely explicit about it. Is that new lore?
It is completely new lore. The actual reason was that China was losing in alaska. Though it was heavily implied that a lot of higher ups got wind that nuclear armageddon would come, hence the great game quest.
This is entierly "new lore" and arguably with the dissolution of the NCR which somehow got nuked by vault tec for no apparent reason other than sure, made to damage F1, 2 and New Vegas, which were all done by the original devs and creators of the ip which also contrary to bugthesda can write a compelling story.
I wouldn't be jumping to conclusions yet.
The NCR was fairly large, I think the more likely explanation is that with Shady Sands getting blown up they have simply focused elsewhere in the ten years since New Vegas. They have like a dozen major cities.
Likely they simply didn't bother reasserting control over the vicinity of Shady Sands, which is why its reverted to a fairly lawless state. The NCR was also canonically in a bit of an economic depression from the strain of expanding so much. So they're definitely not gone, but could easily have shrunk a bit while trying to recover.
Its not unreasonable for Vault-tec to have access to a few nuclear weapons and the father only would have needed 1 to nuke it. Is the father dumb for nuking a city, yes but also no. He may be somewhat uninformed about whats been going on in the world and may assume that the Vault-tec plan is still viable.
Since they are keeping New Vegas canon, it is likely that the father is going to have a bit of a rude awakening and maybe a not so happy Mr House to meet. Mr House has his own agenda and while he certainly has no moral qualms about it he won't like to have random Vault-tec toadies going around nuking "the competition". Mr House's business only works if there are people around to actually partake.
It'll be interesting to see what ending to New Vegas they have decided to go with, speculation on my part; seeing as the lights are out, we may see the aftermath of a wild card ending taken to its logical conclusion, where the Courier decided to kill House and keep New Vegas from being annexed by the NCR or taken by the Legion, but it becoming such an anarchic free state that it collapsed onto itself.
Bit of a shame if this were the case, as I would love to see the tribes / families of the strip in the series.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: As I mentioned? The reveal isn’t Vault-Tec started it. It’s more “confirmation Vault-Tec were willing to start it”.
Those are two separate propositions. And there’s space between them for other variations, such as Vault-Tec not being the first, but adding to it to ensure utter destruction.
That was my reading of it too. While I think the writing for that scene was a little too on-the-nose, I don't think it's outright saying Vault-Tec started the war, just that it was a possibility they were willing to suggest to the other mega-corporations. Maybe, like Mr House, they were resigned to the fact that the apocalypse would happen and were just taking advantage of that.
I think Vault-Tec in general were the weakest part of the show. The writing lacked a bit of nuance around them, IMO. The central premise that they knew about cold fusion and bought up all the companies working on it to stop it messing with their apocalypse plans is really dumb. As pointed out by Grey Templar, the writing of Vault-Tec makes little sense if they're supposed to be super-capitalists. Being the only people in control of the solution to all the world's energy problems would be a mega-corporations wet dream, so there's no reason to keep cold fusion secret if you're the ones that control access to it.
That said, one of the defining features of Vault-Tec in the games is that they're both evil and stupid, so maybe this does make some amount of sense after all.
It's all very well to be a company with monopoly on cold fusion, but it's not the sort of monopoly which would survive, governments would sieze it and other companies would steal the tech,
As long as your raking in profits from other sources it might be more profitable to bury it for now
Watched it all yesterday. Never really played the games. Lots of fun. Really enjoyed it. It had all the things I recognized as being fallout with my limited knowledge. It's been renewed for a Season 2. Happy to watch that too.
Tamereth wrote: Fallout 3 shows an undetonated bomb with vault tec id on it, and in fallout 4 theres definitely some logs that suggest it. But the show is the first time they have 100% confirmed it. It was always left as an unknown as to who started the apocalypse, vault tec being responsible was just hinted at.
Well, we now know Vault-Tec intended to do it. There’s perhaps (in my limited knowledge) still the possibility someone else beat them to that punch.
This is a very good point, just because we know vault-tec had plans to drop the bombs doesn't mean the Chinese or another third party didn't launch first.
Vault stuff and vault dweller was good, ghoul stuff was ok but buoyed by the actor, brotherhood stuff could have been left out and the show would have been better off. 200 year gap from war to now was too long for what they show of the world, unless what we see is the remnants of the civilisation that formed and was destroyed recently.
Best joke was the one about side quests.
The_Real_Chris wrote: 200 year gap from war to now was too long for what they show of the world, unless what we see is the remnants of the civilisation that formed and was destroyed recently.
Well... technically yes that is what happened. The dad destroyed the capital of the NCR and the area has devolved back into lawlessness over the past 10ish years.
Though yeah, fallout, and most post-nuclear-apocalypses in general, exaggerates what the world will look like 200 years after it. The truth is that at a glance you may not even be able to tell a nuclear war happened aside from few buried ruins. The nuclear contamination will be present, but unless you have specialized measuring equipment it will not be obvious. The biggest effect will be higher rates of cancer and a lower life expectancy. The truth is that nuclear bombs don't leave a ton of contamination behind once they've been spent and there isn't actually enough nukes on the planet to cover it entirely in any realistic application.
And human civilization will have pretty much recovered. To what level is questionable. Its highly likely that we simply get knocked back to pre-industrial levels generally, but with some anacronistic technology that never disappears and in enough time we fully recover back to post-industrial since enough will still be laying around to boost us back.
So really, 200 years after the bombs fall you should simply be emerging into a stable society which has long since moved past the apocalypse. The Fallout setting might be more accurate for the first 50ish years.
Bethesda has a real problem with the whole "200+ years after the war" thing with their games on several levels alright. A lot of the stuff you find in their games should be loot or info you'd find not long after the bombs have dropped, instead of.. two centuries down the line.
In Fallout 2, which takes place 164 years after the bombs dropped, we have several cities and societies that have rebuilt their selves to varying degrees of success, Shady Sands went from a small town to a decently sized city, there's also San Francisco and New Reno becoming thriving cities again.
Fallout 3 and 4 have always worked better if you mentally knock about 100-150 years off Bethesda's insane timeline. Even then...every time I see plywood bridges in a raider fort...
I really have to use the Gamma World, "preservative technology also advanced, don't worry about it" caveat, applied to Fallout. Which makes sense in a nonsensical way, as there were a lot of optimistic assumptions in the 60's futurism Fallout uses so heavily.
As far as the series goes, I think it's a very important distinction that we were witness to the very first meeting with other companies where Vault-Tec announced their willingness to kick off the end, but not their intended methods. For all we know, they didn't have any access to nukes at that point to launch first at all - they may have been talking about using their political and economic leverage to give that last, crucial push into someone else doing it. I mean, the entire main plot of Fallout 76 at release was that Vault-Tec wanted the Overseer to seize control of the automated missile silos for Vault-Tec, regardless of any other party laying claim to them - maybe they wanted to finally control nukes post-War, based off their limited ability to influence the when and who of the launch pre-War.
We also don't know how Overseer 33 nuked Shady Sands - did he hire someone to recover a nuke and sneak it in? Did Vault-Tec keep local stockpiles of suitcase nukes only the 'management Vaults' knew about? Did he find a way to ring up whatever Vault 76 is 200 years later and request a missile launch from an Appalachian silo?
I love the Fallout lore and setting as much as anyone else, but a lot of times I think the fandom forget how little we ever know. The setting (aside from its start as a dark-comedy but also bleak background for a one-off PC game) very much incorporates the fall of the modern civilization we take for granted, including the breakdown of reliable information recording and communication. The entire purpose of the Brotherhood is to make sure no one burns and forgets the plans for even the most dangerous technology, because one day mankind might need it again! Reliable narrators and records are sparse in Fallout, and when something is hinted at, it probably shouldn't be taken as a definitive statement of who, what, when, where, and how, and now this piece of the lore puzzle is solved and in place forever.
I've decided to restart Fallout 4 and hah, despite knowing what's coming, I am still annoyed at all those scenes I keep coming across of clothed skeletons locked in scenes that happened when the bombs dropped. Wall-mounted medical kits still stocked with meds, post-war pipe weapons locked away behind 200 year old locks.. Unattended computers left out in the open, exposed to the elements, just waiting for you to hack them and grab whatever lies locked away.
The thing that also bothers me with a lot of these settlements is how dirty they are in terms of debris and clutter. You'd think that they'd clean that out over time, make more space for the inhabitants, make things more liveable.
Fatman nukes are small enough, it wouldn't surprise me if Vault Tec had a stash of those hidden away courtesy of West Tek, or some hidden away national guard supply stash that was conveniently hidden away before the bombs fell.
BrookM wrote: I've decided to restart Fallout 4 and hah, despite knowing what's coming, I am still annoyed at all those scenes I keep coming across of clothed skeletons locked in scenes that happened when the bombs dropped. Wall-mounted medical kits still stocked with meds, post-war pipe weapons locked away behind 200 year old locks.. Unattended computers left out in the open, exposed to the elements, just waiting for you to hack them and grab whatever lies locked away.
The thing that also bothers me with a lot of these settlements is how dirty they are in terms of debris and clutter. You'd think that they'd clean that out over time, make more space for the inhabitants, make things more liveable.
Fatman nukes are small enough, it wouldn't surprise me if Vault Tec had a stash of those hidden away courtesy of West Tek, or some hidden away national guard supply stash that was conveniently hidden away before the bombs fell.
Lol, have you seen the state of some cities TODAY, the idea of rubbish and debris being left lying around is super realistic. As for tec still working after 200 years, the fallout universe doesn't use the same sort of tec as we do, its less advanced and more robust so I can believe it still works.
Post war stuff being locked in pre-war safes on the other hand is annoying.
I mean it's also a game and having there be absolutely nothing around because it's been a while would be boring as hell.
Also, it's not like there's a massive population in the Commonwealth looting everything in sight.
The region also never had a chance to secure itself properly thanks to the Institute killing every attempt to form governments and infiltrating every group they could find.
The thing with Fallout 4 is that for the remarks and gripes I have against it, it's a fun game, it does some things really well and introduces somethings I really enjoy, I certainly don't regret sinking 220 hours into it to date. But, it's not a great Fallout game or a game that really nails the feel of the setting.
The three games that in my opinion do get it right; Fallout, Fallout 2 and New Vegas, who are all connected to one another by region, certain factions and themes (that Bethesda keeps shoe-horning into their own games rather flimsily), are for me those three games that make up the Fallout trilogy.
But, the real downside is, they're not the most accessible of games this day and age, sure they run just fine on Steam and GOG, but they're not the easiest to pick up and play.
I really wanted to get into NV cos like Apoc Cowboy is a cool vibe but damn it has 0 chill.
One minute I'm killing geckos the next I've reloded my save 8 times because I can't get past 3 dudes.
Yeah, NV is built on that gakky F3 engine and early game can be tough. Who am I kidding? The game scales with you (in a not-broken or OP way mind) and keeps things tough throughout.
NV was back from the time games did not mess around. There are areas you should NOT go till you hit certain levels unlike Fallout 4/Skyrim where most everything is leveled with your character.
Nah F4 definitely has places that will flip your bricks if you aren't careful.
Hell even just going to Lexington below a certain level is damn dangerous. Loads of Ferals and a Raider in power armour with a Fatman.
First ever time playing I got swarmed and the second time I walked round a corner and got atomised.
Yes and no. Certain places are very hard, but it usually isn't because the enemies are above your level since the game levels enemies with you. Its more a structural thing where the bare minimum abilities/# of enemies have there are going to one shot you. The Ghouls and raiders in Lexington aren't above your level though, there is just more of them then you might typically be able to handle.
Its different from NV where enemies in certain areas will be fixed to a level way way higher than you at the start. Like, the Deathclaw you fight in the beginning of Fallout 4 is certainly strong, but he is leveled to your character and a reasonable opponent. As opposed to the Deathclaws in New Vegas you will run into if you try and take the quick route to the Strip. They are absolutely unfair to fight at the beginning.
Grey Templar wrote: Yes and no. Certain places are very hard, but it usually isn't because the enemies are above your level since the game levels enemies with you. Its more a structural thing where the bare minimum abilities/# of enemies have there are going to one shot you. The Ghouls and raiders in Lexington aren't above your level though, there is just more of them then you might typically be able to handle.
Its different from NV where enemies in certain areas will be fixed to a level way way higher than you at the start. Like, the Deathclaw you fight in the beginning of Fallout 4 is certainly strong, but he is leveled to your character and a reasonable opponent. As opposed to the Deathclaws in New Vegas you will run into if you try and take the quick route to the Strip. They are absolutely unfair to fight at the beginning.
Especially if you go to the Quarry where the Blind Deathclaws are, those things will make you crap your pants with how fast they detect you and run at you at Mach 3 to tear your ass apart in seconds. Even with the OP combo of Boone equipped with an anti-material rifle and ED-E as the early warning detection system, they are no joke. The first time you run into Cazadores will also completely mess with you until you realize you have to pack anti-venom in your gear at all times.
This is also isn't even going into the DLC of Dead Money where it basically forces you to start from scratch (at least gear wise) or some of the Marked Men/Deathclaws even on the higher levels in the Lonesome Road.
And New Vegas doesn't lock out the DLCs either. Fallout 4 keeps you from doing the various DLCs till you hit a level milestone. New Vegas just says "Are you sure you want to go do Lonesome Road? Ok..."
Grey Templar wrote: And New Vegas doesn't lock out the DLCs either. Fallout 4 keeps you from doing the various DLCs till you hit a level milestone. New Vegas just says "Are you sure you want to go do Lonesome Road? Ok..."
Yeah, it definitely didn't handhold you and it fully matched the harshness of what the Mojave was supposed to be as the new frontier for so many factions. The fact that this game is 2 generations old but still has this level of reverence amongst the community and in terms of mods really shows how much it holds up in terms of story and game mechanics, even if the combat is clunky.
There's a reason why the community keeps asking for a remaster of New Vegas. I mean, I would love to see New Vegas redone with the Fallout 4 engine, keep everything else as is (or let Obsidian realize the full game as intended), but update the engine and for the love of feth, leave out the settlement building mechanics and radiant quests.
But give us the power armour, if there is one thing Fallout 4 did mostly right, it's the power armour mechanic. It's not as great as it was in Fallout, where it truly turned you into a tank when you earned the right to wear it, but it's a massive upgrade over the suits you wear in F3 and New Vegas.
Eh, power armor in Fallout 1 is only great until the Super Mutant with his 3.7% critical hit chance gets lucky, bypasses your armor completely and splatters you in a single shot. That game had really sucky combat mechanics.
Fallout 4's fusion core as a balancing mechanic to an otherwise almost impenetrable tank is a far better approach as it doesn't take away player agency. Even if for immersion fusion core lifetime is ridiculously low. Fallout 76's extended lifetime feels much better in that regard.
Grey Templar wrote: And New Vegas doesn't lock out the DLCs either. Fallout 4 keeps you from doing the various DLCs till you hit a level milestone. New Vegas just says "Are you sure you want to go do Lonesome Road? Ok..."
I can't reliably comment on Far Harbor since my idea of fun isn't to hang out on an island infested with Lurks, although I was under the impression that if you choose to trek to the other side of the Commonwealth, you are free to go there early on. What I can say for sure is that Nuka-World's version of asking you if you really want to go there is to put an Assaultron outside the entrance, which you can absolutely take out with a hunting rifle and good positioning even at level 2 or 3. After that you can play Nuka-World just fine since it's leveled to match you.
The thing with Fallout 4 is that for the remarks and gripes I have against it, it's a fun game, it does some things really well and introduces somethings I really enjoy, I certainly don't regret sinking 220 hours into it to date. But, it's not a great Fallout game or a game that really nails the feel of the setting.
Fallout 4 was a very average game. The gameplay is gak (melee is a straight up downgrade compared to Skyrim and the gunplay is incredibly bad), the quests are mostly gak (some of them don't even make sense like Mccready "loyalty" quest) and the whole settlement thing is a waste of time (on top of being badly put together).
Oh, and the main quest is also garbage. Far Harbor was good though.
BrookM wrote: There's a reason why the community keeps asking for a remaster of New Vegas. I mean, I would love to see New Vegas redone with the Fallout 4 engine, keep everything else as is (or let Obsidian realize the full game as intended), but update the engine and for the love of feth, leave out the settlement building mechanics and radiant quests.
But give us the power armour, if there is one thing Fallout 4 did mostly right, it's the power armour mechanic. It's not as great as it was in Fallout, where it truly turned you into a tank when you earned the right to wear it, but it's a massive upgrade over the suits you wear in F3 and New Vegas.
Imo, it's pretty clear that Bethesda (as a whole) doesn't like NV so I wouldn't count on it. Bethesda doesn't like the world moving on from the Great War and rebuilding, Bethesda doesn't like the Enclave being gone since Fallout 2 (hence why it's the main villain in F3 and somehow it still exists in the show), etc.
To Bethesda, Fallout is all about retro-future, post-apocalypse that is still somehow fresh even after 200+ years, deathclaws, power armour and nuka-cola.
Also, most of the folks that worked on NV back then have now left Obsidian.
I must be doing it wrong. I enjoy retrofuturism and 200 year old post apocalypse. And I really enjoyed playing Fallout 4. The settlement building did seem a little superfluous, but if Fallout 5 is basically Fallout 4+ then I’m in.
Fallout 4's main problem was that the main quest was terribly unengaging, and it wanted the premise to mix the revenge plot of FO:NV and FO3's of finding your missing family but they did it in a way where it quickly runs out of steam and has a very disappointing pay-out narratively once you find out the "twist". FO3 had this problem too, where all your actions up until that point (evil or good karma) get one line from your dad saying "You've been a good/bad boy/girl" and then immediately moves on to the plot with the Enclave. I get that in most Fallout games you're kind of intended to get caught up in side-quests anyways but at least New Vegas did a good job of seeding the crumbs of how you getting involved in the power struggle over New Vegas happened with the chip and how you actually have options to mess with Benny when you find him (I still find it hilarious you can Black Widow the guy). This is among other problems like constant radiant quests from Preston, and the factions themselves having several layers of issues on how you get involved with them (the most glaring of which are the Minutemen ordering you, the nominal General, to do everything for them).
Also, I would say that it has among the weaker roster of companions, with only Nick Valentine and Paladin Danse as notable when it comes to their quest lines. I definitely felt like they weren't as nuanced as the New Vegas crew, since they fell prey to the "playersexual" trend that took most open world RPG's by storm at the time, so they all became very samey once you buttered them up.
I think one of the biggest things they missed out on FO4 was the ending cutscenes once you beat the game, which really pulled everything together where it showed the path of healing or devastation you left in your wake depending on the choices you make, including both the small communities, the companions and the larger factions. You can't beat Ron Pearlman narrating at the end!
It might be that (as I did) you buy the whole game as one, with Far Harbour and Nuka World, there's so much to do the main plot gets lost in the mix. I just want to stomp around the world and be nice to most people and kill all the bad guys.
MarkNorfolk wrote: I must be doing it wrong. I enjoy retrofuturism and 200 year old post apocalypse. And I really enjoyed playing Fallout 4. The settlement building did seem a little superfluous, but if Fallout 5 is basically Fallout 4+ then I’m in.
You aren't doing anything wrong.
There's nothing wrong with retrofuturism or post apocalypse. The problem is how Bethesda thinks post-apocalypse is synonymous with the absence of civilization. Fallout 2 was a post apocalypse game, but because it was set 164 years after the Great War, civilizations was slowly being rebuilt. Many areas were still lawless and violent and some towns were mostly inhabited pre-war ruins. But there was also entire new towns being built and looking quite civilized (like the Shady Sands / Vault City / Broken Hills). It also allowed the writers to show the player that civilization =/= good. Vault City had a quasi fascist regime, Broken Hills was struggling with rampant racism and ethnic/race violence and the NCR was already starting to act like an imperialistic and expansionist faction (and there were already hints that the cattle barons were becoming increasingly powerful).
Fallout 4 tries to justify this absence of civilization by saying it's all the fault of the Institute. But it is never explained why the Institute kept the Commonwealth in this state. The game tells you "It just happened because of mistrust" and that's it. It's bad writing and it's lazy.
However, the gameplay is bad. Like, really bad. The game was released in 2015, not early 2000s. And the combats are not enjoyable at all. Dumb ennemies, pathfinding problems, lack of weapons (and many guns feel the same because of recycled animations, non existent recoil across the board and poor sound design). Melee suffers from the same problem but worse (using a road sign as a shield is classic post apocalypse and I can't even do that).
You just enjoyed an average game. It's fine. It happens to all of us.
EDIT :
It might be that (as I did) you buy the whole game as one, with Far Harbour and Nuka World, there's so much to do the main plot gets lost in the mix. I just want to stomp around the world and be nice to most people and kill all the bad guys.
I really don't understand that.
Without good writing, memorable places to visit and interesting NPCs, what does Fallout 4 accomplish ? The combats are not good by 2015 standards. The gunplay is not good by 2015 standard. Melee isn't good either and is a downgrade when compared to the company previous game (Skyrim). The exploration is also not good because you quickly realize that you find, 99% of the time, randomized leveled loot and that's it. I guess the level design of downtown Boston is quite good. But back in 2015 my framerate was suffering a lot in downtown, to the point I couldn't enjoy the game at all.
People shat on Fallout 76 because without NPCs and towns, the game was exposed for what it truly was : a collection of bad systems. Fallout 4 stories are so uninspired and uninteresting that I realized that years ago.
I really liked Fallout 3 until the end. I really did not enjoy 4 and couldn't tell you why exactly. I quit playing it rather quickly. Granted, 3 is the exception, as I can't say I've really clicked with any of Bethesda's other games either.
"Fawkes, you're a super mutant, go into this irradiated room and flip that switch for me."
"No, I will not rob you of YOUR DESTINY."
Good karma companion my ass.. 😐
As for Fallout 4, you're supposed to be finding your child, I was ready to go full Mel Gibson from Ransom on the wasteland, screaming GIVE ME BACK MY SON at every raider until I got what I wanted, but instead how about some radiant quests kiddo? Hey, build stuff! Run settlements! I am surprised that they didn't shove the Enclave into the game until now hehe, because for Bethesda Fallout is..
1. Super Mutants (because now there's a vault making them! Or the Institute did it!)
2. Brotherhood of Steel (because nobody else has power armour)
3. Vault dweller protagonist
4. The Enclave
Now, New Vegas has all of these (except for #3), but seeing as they all got their origins from that part of the wasteland, it makes sense that you deal with remnants of the BoS and the Master's army. And Vegas didn't just have the excellent ending slides, but also multiple endings for most, if not all major factions involved, your companions and places you visited. Some of the DLC endings are also most excellent and really showcase that despite your best efforts, you can't win them all. Except for Dead Money, I hate that one.
BrookM wrote: "Fawkes, you're a super mutant, go into this irradiated room and flip that switch for me."
"No, I will not rob you of YOUR DESTINY."
Good karma companion my ass.. 😐
As for Fallout 4, you're supposed to be finding your child, I was ready to go full Mel Gibson from Ransom on the wasteland, screaming GIVE ME BACK MY SON at every raider until I got what I wanted, but instead how about some radiant quests kiddo? Hey, build stuff! Run settlements! I am surprised that they didn't shove the Enclave into the game until now hehe, because for Bethesda Fallout is..
1. Super Mutants (because now there's a vault making them! Or the Institute did it!)
2. Brotherhood of Steel (because nobody else has power armour)
3. Vault dweller protagonist
4. The Enclave
Now, New Vegas has all of these (except for #3), but seeing as they all got their origins from that part of the wasteland, it makes sense that you deal with remnants of the BoS and the Master's army. And Vegas didn't just have the excellent ending slides, but also multiple endings for most, if not all major factions involved, your companions and places you visited. Some of the DLC endings are also most excellent and really showcase that despite your best efforts, you can't win them all. Except for Dead Money, I hate that one.
Ugh, FO3's ending is super immersion breaking where you had two radiation immune companion with both Fawkes and Charon really bothered me, especially the latter who is effectively borderline a slave when you have his contract, so it's super contrived for them to not go in instead of you.
100% though regarding Bethesda's approach to the FO IP though, it's basically just a vehicle for them to keep spamming these 4 things over and over, rather than expanding on how each region should be different in some way since, ya know, it's not like the Brotherhood is an omnipresent faction in the entirety of the United States nor the Enclave. I hate that they retconned in Super Mutants in FO76 when they were meant to be introduced much later.
Dead Money for me is in a weird spot for me, because I can see why people weren't crazy about it, especially compared to other DLC like the Big MT and the Lonesome Road, but I did like the closure I got with Christine and Father Elijah for Veronica and the ending tape from Sinclair's lover when you leave is very haunting, so it's still an overall positive experience though there were definitely frustrating moments with the damn collar blowing off when you didn't intend walking into a certain area. It also helps that I glitched out in the room and was able to make off with 1000 gold bars that I'll never be able to sell all of
BrookM wrote: "Fawkes, you're a super mutant, go into this irradiated room and flip that switch for me."
"No, I will not rob you of YOUR DESTINY."
Fun story. I was playing this on Christmas Eve and RIGHT as I hit this line of dialog I got called to dinner, had to pause it there and fume for the entire holiday before getting back to it. I still can't believe that line is coded in there and that when they "fixed" it in Broken Steel they kept the "coward" dialog from the bad karma ending. The 00's were just obsessed with martyrdom stories that audiences were not nearly as enthralled with.
Okay, New Vegas' companions annoyed me the least, especially when Boone starts blasting away at everything located at least a zip code away, or Cass drops some of her wisdom on us.. can't complain.
Fallout 3 definitely had a bit of a railroaded ending, especially since those companions being there would make the ending not make any sense. Clearly the canon ending was meant for you to be the selfless hero...
Tamereth wrote: Fallout 3 shows an undetonated bomb with vault tec id on it, and in fallout 4 theres definitely some logs that suggest it. But the show is the first time they have 100% confirmed it. It was always left as an unknown as to who started the apocalypse, vault tec being responsible was just hinted at.
Except it wasn't dropped by vault tech, it's there from a crash landing.
If you talk to one of the NPCs she explains that megaton was built from the wreckage of a crashed bomb carrier and that the bomb was it's payload.
Not far from Megaton there's a bomb depot, and if the bomb was dropped by vault-tech you'd think it would detonate, seeing as it's still active.
I see a lot of people using the megaton bomb as "evidence" that vault-tech nuked their own country for some silly reason, but if they actually asked around and looked at the environment it wouldn't hold up.
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Grey Templar wrote: Fallout 3 definitely had a bit of a railroaded ending, especially since those companions being there would make the ending not make any sense. Clearly the canon ending was meant for you to be the selfless hero...
Fallout 3's entire main quest was railroaded. There's one specific path to go down, and its to help the BoS. Even if you do Eden's bidding it doesn't matter because Raven Rock still gets destroyed and in Broken Steel the FEV does practically nothing except make Aqua Pura kill you.
You're expected to stupidly kill yourself at the end, and if you do the smart thing and send a robot or mutant to activate the purifier for you you get called a coward.
There's a reason why Fallout 3's story is criticized.
Fallout 4 is just a rehash of Fallout 3's story except flipped, because Emil can't write a decent story. They tried copying what NV did with the factions but they forgot to make the factions actually good with coherent motivations, and instead of having decent sidequests you get radiant busy work quests.
I liked the concept of settlement building, but its wasted on Fallout 4 and doesn't mesh well with the story or gameplay.
Fallout 4 really should have been about the Sole Survivor waking up 200 years after the bombs fell to see his home destroyed, and has to work with a faction to restore it. Then settlement building could have been an actual gameplay feature rather than an afterthought.
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BrookM wrote: Yeah, NV is built on that gakky F3 engine and early game can be tough. Who am I kidding? The game scales with you (in a not-broken or OP way mind) and keeps things tough throughout.
Nah, Fallout 3 is easy. Skills don't matter that much. Early game you can kill things just fine with small guns and melee without having to invest in them.
Skills matter a lot more in New Vegas, and the changes to how DR and DT works makes enemies a lot tougher.
Its not the engine, its the actual mechanics.
DR and DT have been great additions to New Vegas, it certainly gave us more of a challenge and made some types of armour all the more worthwhile to wear.
Yeah, DT was great. Power armour can now actually feel like power armour.
They removed it in Fallout 4 though and replaced it with a really convoluted system.
I don't know why Bethesda keeps making changes to power armour. First they made it that you need special training and you can beat it with small arms, then they made it so that they have short battery life, and in the show it now locks you in the suit when it runs out of power (which is a horrible design feature) and they introduced a fatal flaw where the wearer dies instantly.
Now, if the T-60 was post war suit of armour cooked up by the brotherhood of steel, sure, they can have that flaw, as the implication would be that the BoS recreations of PA were flawed.
But the T-60 is a pre-war suit that has a flaw that the T-45 apparently has now, and that's just silly.
Not to mention that power armour is now everywhere. It used to be that PA was extremely rare and was the best in the game, now it feels like a common thing.
Haha, when I was explaining to a fellow mod some of the stuff I love about the setting, I did also mention the increasing number of factions and groups who have access to power armour as the games grind on. I will say though, Greasers (the Atom Cats) running a chop shop where they mod power armour is a cool idea that isn't too far out for the setting.
I like to think that the flaw of the T45 and the T60 is due to them being crappy models, unlike the venerable, god-like T51, which is in my eyes perfection. 👌🏻
Until the Enclave came around and introduced the Fallout 2 version of the advanced power armour, not the Fallout 3 version, the Fallout 2 version. If they were to give us that one in the next season of the show, that would be amazing.
It's just the Jedi of the setting. That super cool unique hero thing at the pinnacle that people recognize and want more of so they give us way too much of in the sequels.
Fallout 3's entire main quest was railroaded. There's one specific path to go down, and its to help the BoS. Even if you do Eden's bidding it doesn't matter because Raven Rock still gets destroyed and in Broken Steel the FEV does practically nothing except make Aqua Pura kill you.
You're expected to stupidly kill yourself at the end, and if you do the smart thing and send a robot or mutant to activate the purifier for you you get called a coward.
There's a reason why Fallout 3's story is criticized.
While true, being able to skip main story was pretty rare for its time. Sadly for me, I found the tanker before the radio signal and missed all of the capital mall events :(
So Advanced Power Armour was introduced in Fallout 2. It was an improvement over the classic power armour, which would later be designated T-51.
You can also get APAmk2, which is even better than APA and is basically true end game equipment. You can get APA early if you do the Navarro trick, but the only way to get mk2 is to go to the Oil Rig, which at that point you're already at the end of the game.
APAmk2 returns in Fallout 3, but they used the Midwestern BoS design as opposed to the classic wasp looking design, which is...well, I don't dislike it and I do like tactics (and it seems so does Bethesda, seeing how they keep poaching elements from it), but it's not Enclave.
Then they nerfed it by making it worse than the in game T-51 armour.
The kicker is that they have NPCs talk about how hard its going to be to pierce their armour, but stat wise it isn't great, you can easily use small arms to beat it.
Then Fallout 4 comes along and introduces the X-01 in Nuka World, which is supposed to be a prototype to APA. Which is...fine I guess. At least the X-01 is better than the T-60, which it should be because the APA is supposed to be superior to pre-war models.
The problem is that fans started thinking that the X-01 is the APA even though the helmet looks completely different and started calling APAmk2 and Hellfire X-02 and X-03 respectively, even though x would be a prototype designation. Which on it's own wouldn't be too bad, but then Beth started calling them that in the creation club, which makes it official
If the Enclave show up in the show they'd probably be wearing Hellfire armour or some later model. Hellfire armour was supposed to eventually replace APAmk2, iirc.
If they introduce Mk4 armour or whatever they should base it on the APA's design, because that version rocks and would look pretty intimidating on screen. The Hellfire helmet looks...weird.
A good way to introduce the Enclave would be to pay homage to the opening of Fallout 2, I think. Have a couple of Enclave soldiers open up Vault 4 and mow down everyone inside.
I don't like tactics and I don't like what they did with the power armour designs either, thankfully it is mostly either non-canon or left to the vagaries of the setting.
And yes re: the Jedi thing. In the first two games power armour was supposed to be an end game reward, in the first one in particular you really had to work for it to get your own suit. In the second game, with sneaky prior knowledge, it can become trivially easy to get it, but if you play the game as intended, it becomes a nice late-game reward for your efforts.
IIRC T-45 was the original model of power armor, so it makes sense that it is the worst. Still has some kinks in it.
T-51 was an improvement which fixed most of the issues. However it was very expensive so it didn't get fully rolled out for everybody.
T-60 was a compromise between T-45 and T-51 which only just came out when the Great War happened. Not as good as T-51, but it was cheaper and was intended to be the new standard issue model. The Brotherhood of Steel has a lot of this stuff because they can manufacture it so it has become synonymous with them.
Naturally, there was still a mix of armor in the US military inventory and use when the war happened, so we see tons of mixed suits even in the present day in the games.
Now, if the T-60 was post war suit of armour cooked up by the brotherhood of steel, sure, they can have that flaw, as the implication would be that the BoS recreations of PA were flawed.
But the T-60 is a pre-war suit that has a flaw that the T-45 apparently has now, and that's just silly.
Not to mention that power armour is now everywhere. It used to be that PA was extremely rare and was the best in the game, now it feels like a common thing.
I don't think its unrealistic for there to be a flaw in T-45, and for T-60 to share it since they are linked designs.
The Ghoul is confirmed to be a pre-war veteran who used T-45 armor. If there was a weak spot, he would probably know. It could easily be that the flaw was known about and was either ignored or covered up by the military or its suppliers to save face or costs. Could be one of the benefits of T-51 too, it doesn't have the flaw but is more expensive.
As for why the BOS hasn't fixed it themselves. They may not know. They've just been faithfully recreating T-60 power armor from the designs, which probably don't have a note saying "This spot is a problem". And really unless someone knows that spot is there it is unlikely they'll find it accidentally.
It wouldn't be the first time that some small corruption in procurement results in suboptimal equipment being issued to soldiers.
I don't mind the overall suit, its just the helmet looks like a pig to me.
Maybe it will look better on TV. Fallout 4's assault rifle actually looks decent in the show, and in the game it's one of the worse gun designs.
I can see the pig look. I assume it's based on some gas mask design from back in the day. I think it works for me because of its armored, no nonsense look. Other power armor helmets have a lot more going on. That isn't necessarily a bad thing either, but I think in this case simplicity wins out for me.
Another video from Tim, this time with regards to lore drift, some interesting thoughts from him on what's happening to what was basically his child at some point:
Finished watching it with the missus last night. Really enjoyed it over all. I think it sets a high bar for video game to tv adaptions.
I did appreciate that it struck a nice balance between being able to appeal to people unfamiliar with Fallout, but also having enough little references and in-jokes that fans would appreciate.
Beforehand the only thing my wife knew about Fallout was Vault Boy who she recognised from "that game I play a lot", yet she was still able to get a good grip on what was happening in the show. I did explain her a few bits like what ghouls were and the significance of the last scene in the final episode when she asked, but she didnt have to ask me to explain a lot.
The fact both of us on either ends of the familiarity spectrum were able to enjoy it speaks a lot to how good it is.
Spoiler:
I am a bit gutted with how the NCR were handled, but hopefully there may still be better faring remnants of it in season 2.
Finished it last week. Enjoyed it overall, a nice homage to the Fallout series which I adored.
Not sure I'd have gone down the dark, quirky humour route, I'd be interested to have seen if they kept it very dark although admit the games always had that quirky, dark humour thing going on.
Hope future game adaptations keep up the standard.
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