GW... pioneering laugh tracks in tabletop gaming since 2015? It does seem odd that they're doubling down on that since they now have theoretically sales data. If it is as bad as folks generally seem to think, you'd hope that they'd maybe take a peek outside of their IP Castle with it's redug moat of Typo Trademark protection to see why.
Mymearan wrote: Actually, it's aimed at older gamers who have a family and don't have time to learn complicated rulesets... I'm not white knighting, just acknowledging.
I have never, ever, in close to 30 years of playing GW games, heard anyone say "I'm not going to play WFB because I don't have time to learn the rules"
Getting back to the Duardin(?) release, I was kind of excited by the hints of "fire dwarfs" in the early AoS books, but this release was kind of disappointing. I was expecting something more exciting and, well, new. Not just a retread of the old Dwarf Slayers. Plus, they appear to suffer from the same flaw (IMO) as the Sigmarines; lack of variety. All the different figures look the same at tabletop distances. A missed opportunity, I think,
MongooseMatt wrote: I managed to grab some close-up snaps of some of the models - I think these have all been seen before
Thanks for those! The big fire lizard is actually kind of cool. Certainly the best part of this new faction.
With the way the beard comes off his face, I could definitely see the face painted as a mask with the beard flowing out from underneath. Especially given the stoic appearance of the face when every other dwarf is running around like a maniac.
Melissia wrote: "We just took all their clothes off and added fire everywhere, aren't we creative?"
No... just... no.
Slayers were never big on clothes ?
Yeah that's what I was about to say... I don't own any of the old Slayer models but I was sure some of them had bare bums? So by comparison these ones are quite modest
Thanks for the feedback on that idea guys . I'm going to pick him up and see what it looks like in-person (and also the size of it compared to my chaos dwarfs). But seems promising
I was also thinking about maybe using the dwarfosaur for my lizardmen too as a counts as carnosaur, but it's a little too pricey as is... It might be cheaper in a bundle some day, but then I'd have all those extra dwarves I won't need and it might be a pain to sell em. I'm still trying to get rid of the khorne models from my AoS starter...
And true dat. Guess I'll wait and see. It's not like I don't have enough to keep me busy in the meantime ... 4 units of Sigmarines, start collecting lizardmen box, horus heresy, and those couple of skitari boxes I couldn't resist...
RiTides wrote: Thanks for the feedback on that idea guys . I'm going to pick him up and see what it looks like in-person (and also the size of it compared to my chaos dwarfs). But seems promising
I kinda had the same idea, though whatever the obscene price for the fig, I almost certainly couldn't actually justify it. Which is a shame, because it takes A LOT for me to like a Dwarf model (I do like the Warhamer Forge CHAOS Dwarves though, and the ones that come s with the Hellcannon and some of the old school Babylonian ones).
RiTides wrote: Thanks for the feedback on that idea guys . I'm going to pick him up and see what it looks like in-person (and also the size of it compared to my chaos dwarfs). But seems promising
I'd say at the most you'll only need to file/cut a tiny little bit of the beard away on the lower face so it gives the impression of disappearing under the mask.
A kit like that should have extra mustachios, in different styles to personalise your heroes.
Some turned slihtly upward, some walrus style, some braided.
Huge missed opportunity here. The whole "male facial hair" trend in full bloom, and gw to lazy to care.
They could have based whole warrior lodges on the style of their beards.
Or perhaps GW release a mustach upgrade kit in the near future, eh?
Necros wrote: I was also thinking about maybe using the dwarfosaur for my lizardmen too as a counts as carnosaur, but it's a little too pricey as is... It might be cheaper in a bundle some day, but then I'd have all those extra dwarves I won't need and it might be a pain to sell em. I'm still trying to get rid of the khorne models from my AoS starter...
If you are into Lizard Men, the new Seraphon Starter is only £50 and has a Carnosaur you can assemble three different ways, plus eight cavalry, plus 12 infantry, compared to the Dwarf Salamander which is £10 more and has only one extra foot figure.
There must be some underlying reasoning. Businesses that just pick prices out of their arse don't tend to do well. Things go wrong if you over- or under-price your goods.
While the slayers might be considered sexualized due to their nakedness, they aren't objectified. And perhaps more importantly; the clothing of these dwarves are the outlier when it comes to male miniatures, not the norm.
He is an idiot and talking about a mental state not a physical state. Sex, sexual ising and such is mental not physical.
If you see a child or a man dressed in a mini skirt it does not give you a second thought. But if it is someone you find sexy it is sexual.
It reminds me of a case I seen on tv about a child rapist he said the 6 year old girl was intising him and being over sexual. If you see two women in bikini's pushing each other as sexual thats a you thing not a culture thing.
I grew up around all girls and do not find girls in bikinis fighting or skirts as sexual. If you do and see it as making them over sexual that just speaks of your mind seeing women as only things to be lusted after. In short don't make a you mental state a everyone problem.
Don't take people who are joking seriously and/or do not feed trolls.
Kilkrazy wrote: Things go wrong if you over- or under-price your goods.
Maybe the reason why some things are always out of stock or sold well while others are getting dust on the shelf
Actually now that you mention it, that makes good sense. However in many ways GW is a well run company, or they would not have lasted so long. They have a good grasp on the production costs of their kits, it's the competitive pricing they have lost track of.
See, that WD cover is what I'm talking about. The forelegs are pushed so far apart by the wide, puffy humanoid pecs that if the thing could move around, it'd have to waddle. The entire creature seem built on the maxim 'if in doubt, stick a bulge on. Then wrap it tightly in rigid armour'.
DarkBlack wrote:Don't take people who are joking seriously and/or do not feed trolls.
Are you calling Zywus a troll and the topic of objectification of female characters in pop culture a joke?
Let's not go down that rabbit hole - this thread is for discussing Age of Sigmar. Please take broader discussion of culture / etc to an appropriate thread in the OT forum.
Want to know more about the gods of the Mortal Realms?
Here's a quick guide on where to find out more about them in Black Library fiction:
Sigmar
You know this guy: he lives in the Realm of Azyr, forged the Stormcast army, seeks to save the Mortal Realms from the dominion of Chaos.
For the tale of Sigmar, follow the main Realmgate Wars novel series – the best place to start is the novella The Gates of Azyr.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/aos/whaos-novs/gates-of-azyr-hardback.html
Malerion
Reputed to haunt the Realm of Shadow. Very little is known of this mysterious figure, though the followers of the lost Chaos god Slaanesh seek him out, believing him partly responsible for their patron's disappearance.
We haven’t seen him in any story yet, but it’s only a matter of time…
Grungni
Smith-god of the duardin and staunch ally of Sigmar.
He hasn’t shown up in person yet, but his handiwork is evident in the forging of every Simgarite-clad Stormcast Eternal.
Gorkamorka
The two-headed god of the Greenskins and one-time ally of Sigmar. His orruk followers wage unending war against the forces of Chaos (and are having a great time doing it too!).
We haven’t seen him in any story yet, but where there’s a good scrap, the orruks wont be long in finding it.
Grimnir
A fiery god of the duardin, his form was shattered in battle against the mother of all Ur-Salamanders, the mighty Vulkatrix.
Only the Fyreslayers know what became of him, and we may well be seeing more of them in some new fiction very soon…
Chaos and Wrath? Damn it, How many more models dose Khorn need?!?!?! This is ridiculous. I won't touch AoS with a ten foot pole at this point, but they could at least release some nice Slaanesh and Tzeetch Models I could use for kit bashing in 40k....
Am I the only one who's not seeing the "race" section on GW's AoS webstore anymore? Wonder why that change.
I'm not seeing it either. Could be a database error, or it could be that with the way AoS is partitioned, sorting by race didn't make any sense (There were only 3 Seraphon models, with the majority being under daemons).
But what's the plural for Duardin? Or... what's the singular?
Was wondering what these slayers might look like with obsidian skin and burning eyes... but probably not wondering enough to do more than try a tester.
Mengel Miniatures brought this up already but Tomb King art spotted and possible new zombie sculpt (seeing as GW usually won't make art of models that don't/won't exist)? Not that familiar with zombies myself. Also potential savage orc on wyvern dual kit with shaman coming from the looks of the other pic?
Chaos and Wrath? Damn it, How many more models dose Khorn need?!?!?! This is ridiculous. I won't touch AoS with a ten foot pole at this point, but they could at least release some nice Slaanesh and Tzeetch Models I could use for kit bashing in 40k....
Looking at the teaser for next week white dwarf, I saw that multiple chaos models are no longer avaible today. Not out of stock, just no longer avaible and they are not even old models. Maybe that is the teaser that these guys getting there round bases. Do not know but here are the guys in question:
[/img]
coldgaming wrote: Mengel Miniatures brought this up already but Tomb King art spotted and possible new zombie sculpt (seeing as GW usually won't make art of models that don't/won't exist)? Not that familiar with zombies myself. Also potential savage orc on wyvern dual kit with shaman coming from the looks of the other pic?
If GW finally put out a decent looking zombie kit after all these years stuck with the abysmal original, and they turn out to be AoS-oversized to the point you can't use them plausibly for anything else, I will literally flip my desk.
coldgaming wrote: Mengel Miniatures brought this up already but Tomb King art spotted and possible new zombie sculpt (seeing as GW usually won't make art of models that don't/won't exist)? Not that familiar with zombies myself. Also potential savage orc on wyvern dual kit with shaman coming from the looks of the other pic?
]
I saw this pic on FB, but it didn't talk about zombies. Instead the interesting part was the big creature in the background, which has been seen before in a pre-AoS Tomb King artwork, looking exactly the same. So it could be a big Undead-creature on the way.
coldgaming wrote: Mengel Miniatures brought this up already but Tomb King art spotted and possible new zombie sculpt (seeing as GW usually won't make art of models that don't/won't exist)? Not that familiar with zombies myself. Also potential savage orc on wyvern dual kit with shaman coming from the looks of the other pic?
If GW finally put out a decent looking zombie kit after all these years stuck with the abysmal original, and they turn out to be AoS-oversized to the point you can't use them plausibly for anything else, I will literally flip my desk.
Make sure you film that and post it on YouTube for us Francis!
But yes, at this point, I think it is safe to assume that anything 'new' that GW makes for AoS will be made in the new, bigger scale.
Mymearan wrote: Have we seen comparison pics of the new Slayers to confirm that they are actually bigger than the 2013 dwarfs?
I'll be able to post a comparison pic with Grim Burlokkson come Wednesday when I get my slayers. Not sure how Grimm Burloksson scales with the other 2013 releases, but I guess he will be the same size/bigger than the new slayers. He was on a 20mm square base and yet dominates a 32mm round. People like to make out these slayers are the size of terminators, but from the pics they look to be the same size as the 2013 dwarfs.
Chaos and Wrath? Damn it, How many more models dose Khorn need?!?!?! This is ridiculous. I won't touch AoS with a ten foot pole at this point, but they could at least release some nice Slaanesh and Tzeetch Models I could use for kit bashing in 40k....
Looking at the teaser for next week white dwarf, I saw that multiple chaos models are no longer avaible today. Not out of stock, just no longer avaible and they are not even old models. Maybe that is the teaser that these guys getting there round bases. Do not know but here are the guys in question:
[/img]
The 'Creatures' box has been sold out a while now, but the other two are still available on the US store. For how much longer, who knows?
Mymearan wrote: Have we seen comparison pics of the new Slayers to confirm that they are actually bigger than the 2013 dwarfs?
This is indeed the way they look. I guess they come with 32mm bases.
Indeed they do- it's in their product description on the webstore. Though tbh, I'm not sure that's really an indicator of increase in scale. I think it just makes your standard infantry have a greater presence on the table IMO (as we saw with Space Marines)
coldgaming wrote: Mengel Miniatures brought this up already but Tomb King art spotted and possible new zombie sculpt (seeing as GW usually won't make art of models that don't/won't exist)? Not that familiar with zombies myself. Also potential savage orc on wyvern dual kit with shaman coming from the looks of the other pic?
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
The giant figures in the back look like the Morghasts released with Nagash during the End Time run.
coldgaming wrote: Assuming that's Grimwrath berzerker for the Fyreslayers. Think Bottle's right that's the big axe guy, though I sort of wish it were another unit.
Am I the only one who's not seeing the "race" section on GW's AoS webstore anymore? Wonder why that change.
What's with the weird eyelets in the beast's back ridge? Does it double as a tarp?
Don't really know NZD conversion rates, but it looks like the tablet edition of the battletome is much much cheaper than the print version (less than half price)!
Also, Undead End Times gets a full circle base repackage :-)
Yep all the reboxing is the same price (or cheaper for AoS players as we no longer have to buy seperate circle bases :-p).
If you assemble the Magmadroth with the Runefather or Runeson you can actually make two foot characters too, as the riding legs for the father/son are different to the standing legs (kit comes with two 32mm bases for this too)!
I really hope we'll get some Vampire Counts sourcebooks soon, seems like everything is shaping up for one. Maybe a battletome or maybe the next realm gate war book?
I'm pretty sure Sad Panda said Spacewolves for Feb (although there doesn't seem to be any active rumor mill for it?) so maybe the next big AoS release will come in March? Suits me :-)
I really hope we'll get some Vampire Counts sourcebooks soon, seems like everything is shaping up for one. Maybe a battletome or maybe the next realm gate war book?
I'm pretty sure Sad Panda said Spacewolves for Feb (although there doesn't seem to be any active rumor mill for it?) so maybe the next big AoS release will come in March? Suits me :-)
Undead sounds like a likely next release for AoS.
Some gothic over the top crypts and mausoleum scenery would also be nice for any game system.
I dont expect SW to get a huge update. As a space wolf player, I dont really feel anything is lacking in the model range.
A codex with no new models would not be too dissapointing or unexpected. (A neat Iron Priest on a thunder wolf would be appreciated, but we probably just get the Crom Dragongaze model blistered.)
In the top right corner what is that scenery piece? Looks sort of like a tree on fire but is standing on a base with runes inscribed on it? Custom, old or something in the pipeline?
Mymearan wrote: Those are old OLD models though. The 2013 dwarfs should be as big as the AoS ones judging from that pic.
So the scale is fine, as long as you don't mind scale creep?
Scale has been changing for at least a decade or so at GW so yeah. Funny thing is the gobbos got smaller!
The problem is which things have been changing - the new slayers look to be about the same height as a lot of human models. Not particularly "dwarf"-like.
Whatever, if GW want to limit the number of people who're interested in their models, that's their business.
I loved rackham bigger miniatures the style was quite different ( for example uraken gobbos were almost chibi headed scale) then you have more accurate scaling on Red box stuff that look like small people in comparison with other ranges and so forth.
There is a market tendency for 32mm or bigger these days and thats quite obvious.
You may say that GW was more of an accident that a deliberated stylistic choice and that is debatable but the market scaling in general is getting bigger?
NAVARRO wrote: The size looks perfect sized for a heroic dwarf.
The lizard kits allows you to make lizard plus its rider and extra 2 heroes on foot miniatures?
You get one Runesmiter (the priest) and one riding Runefather/son and one foot Runefather/son. If you put the riding Runefather/son on the Magmadroth it leaves you with two foot heroes, putting the Runesmiter on the Magmadroth leaves you with only one foot hero (and a spare rider).
Regarding scale, these Duardin will look fine alongside Empire humans in my opinion. I'll post some comparison pics when my Bezerkers arrive (Wednesday) :-)
In the top right corner what is that scenery piece? Looks sort of like a tree on fire but is standing on a base with runes inscribed on it? Custom, old or something in the pipeline?
The lava tree thing is the plasma leaking from the bottom of the Realmgate (though it has been extended a bit), and the base looks like the Dragonfate Dais base - it is also covered in runes and has a little pit in the middle for blood. So it looks like they combined two scenery kits to create it. Just my guess though.
The last two clam packs from the iTunes preview. Not keen on the grim wrath guy, but I think the battle smith is the pick of the cures fyreslayer releases.
As other posters have said before, I would have preferred the Grimwrath Bezerkers to be a unit rather than another Hero. Maybe a unit that was standard size 3 like the Sigmarine retributors.
It seems the Fyreslayers have a massive abundance of Heroes. The range ends up as follows:
- 3 Heroes on a monster
- 6 Heroes on foot
- 3 units
Bottle wrote: As other posters have said before, I would have preferred the Grimwrath Bezerkers to be a unit rather than another Hero. Maybe a unit that was standard size 3 like the Sigmarine retributors.
The Stormcast Retributors are the only version of the Paladins that have a minimum unit size of 3.
It seems the Fyreslayers have a massive abundance of Heroes. The range ends up as follows:
- 3 Heroes on a monster
- 6 Heroes on foot
Fyreslayers have as many Heroes as the Stormcast Eternals(or realistically, many of the pre-AOS armies) do.
Lord Celestant, Lord Celestant on Dracoth, Knight-Venator, Knight-Azyros, Knight-Heraldor, Knight-Vexillor, Celestant-Prime, Lord-Castellant, and Lord-Relictor--8 heroes on foot and one mounted.
- 3 units
So?
Of those 3 units, you have 2 of them with fairly dramatic differences in how they can be equipped.
Vulkite Berzerkers with their 2x Fyresteel Handaxes or Fyresteel Handaxe/War-Pick and Bladed Slingshield--additionally the option for Fyresteel Throwing Axes.
Hearthguard Berzerkers with their option for Berzerker Broadxes or Flamestrike Poleaxes.
In ye olden times of WHFB, those would likely have been entirely different unit entries rather than just contained within. There was a LOT of bloat when it came to things like that.
Wow, lighten up and lose some of the salt. I'm saying the Fyreslayers are a little top heavy with heroes and it would have been nice to have an extra unit rather than another hero.
Bottle wrote: Wow, lighten up and lose some of the salt.
Sorry, were you standing next to me when I composed my message?
Don't presume to know my state of emotion or anything of that nature when replying to me. You made a post, I replied. Reply to the content rather than your perceived assumptions of attitude.
I'm saying the Fyreslayers are a little top heavy with heroes and it would have been nice to have an extra unit rather than another hero.
And I'm saying that the game has always been "a little top heavy with heroes" and that many of the later armies/often updated armies became bloated with unit options seemingly to fulfill some quota that the developers were being given for books to have an equal-ish number of units.
Dark Elves, for example, went from 13 different unit options to 20 different unit options when the book was updated to include the Sisters of Slaughter, Bloodwrack Shrine and Bloodwrack Medusae(which remember is its own option by itself as well as for the Shrine), the Kharibdyss, Doomfire Warlocks, and the Bleakswords.
And just for fun, they went from 11 total Heroes/Lords options to 15 total Heroes/Lords options--13 if you discount Kouran Darkhand and Tullaris Dreadbringer(both present in the previous book as unit-specific upgrade characters for Black Guard and Executioners respectively).
That's a jump of 7 unit types, two of which(Darkspears and Bleakswords) were quite literally the same profile before(Dark Elf Warriors had Spears, Hand Weapons, and Shields), in the course of a single book.
Seneca wrote: Did I missed something? There appears to be no limited edition this time.
Maybe they extrapolated the trend of other AoS limited editions. Stormcast and Bloodbound sold out only recently while Seraphon still has collector's editions available. GW is only into short-term thinking, so a limited edition that takes more than a month of sell out is probably a no-go for them. Plus such a thing adds cracks in the illusion of their products being absolutely amazing and highly desirable, so can't have that.
Bottle wrote: Wow, lighten up and lose some of the salt.
Sorry, were you standing next to me when I composed my message?
Don't presume to know my state of emotion or anything of that nature when replying to me. You made a post, I replied. Reply to the content rather than your perceived assumptions of attitude.
Lol, why are you so hostile? I'm sorry if you're going through an emotional state, dude. You just come across so salty and for no reason at all.
I would like another unit in the Fyreslayer army. I guess you don't want another unit for whatever reason?
I picked up the Runemaster today, parts look really nice and crisp. Face looks even more stoic in-person and should totally work painted as a mask
Hey tides, whats your opinion of the muscle sculpting...the close ups that were posted made the arm and leg sculpting where it meets the torso look really bad
Local store was all out of dwarfs. Which was kind of dumb, as they only ordered one of everything, figuring everyone was sick of AoS stuff. Then they get bombarded with people asking about them. Doesn't hurt that they're the cheapest GW source in the vicinity, eBay included.
Ended up getting a Start Collecting Khorne Daemons box instead as I've always wanted to own some juggernauts and a Herald of Khorne. Crazy prices.
Will definitely pick up a (hopefully inevitable) Start Collecting Fyreslayer box if they ever make one. Will certainly be going back to get the Seraphon one ASAP.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Local store was all out of dwarfs. Which was kind of dumb, as they only ordered one of everything, figuring everyone was sick of AoS stuff. Then they get bombarded with people asking about them. Doesn't hurt that they're the cheapest GW source in the vicinity, eBay included.
My local store had not a lot of dwarvish stuff, brought in a little bit of the new releases (2 of everything?) and instantly sold out of dwarves too.
A lot of people were predicting AoS would pick up once we saw new releases for more conventional factions, perhaps this release will see a change of the steady withering AoS had been seeing.
NinthMusketeer wrote: A lot of people were predicting AoS would pick up once we saw new releases for more conventional factions, perhaps this release will see a change of the steady withering AoS had been seeing.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. A couple of stores who only ordered 1 or 2 of each item selling out doesn't mean much at all, lol.
It's that dwarf fan base, baby first 8th Ed special edition army book to sell out in 2-3 days I believe it was. Good thing in the US at the time we could order Friday afternoon.
Makes you wonder why they didn't do a special edition for this battletome then, maybe they are gone for good... Shame as I would have considered one for Vampire Counts or Empire.
That's true. I could speculate but that does no good. I guess wait the rest of release out. Buying the special Ed. In 8th was basically for those collectors who want their main armies. One just sits on the shelf
I like the Fyreslayer releases. Not sure if I will buy some kits but I focus mostly on 'Chaos' forces in the WFB/AoS setting anyway. Seeing the miniatures on a table quite often gives a different impression than on pics. The Stormcast Eternals for example are a lot better than I had feared they would be based on only seeing photos of them.
Warhams-77 wrote: I like the Fyreslayer releases. Not sure if I will buy some kits but I focus mostly on 'Chaos' forces in the WFB/AoS setting anyway. Seeing the miniatures on a table quite often gives a different impression than on pics. The Stormcast Eternals for example are a lot better than I had feared they would based on only seeing photos of them.
Yeah I found that with the SM Centurions when they came out. Looks far better when you have them in your hands.
Warhams-77 wrote: I like the Fyreslayer releases. Not sure if I will buy some kits but I focus mostly on 'Chaos' forces in the WFB/AoS setting anyway. Seeing the miniatures on a table quite often gives a different impression than on pics. The Stormcast Eternals for example are a lot better than I had feared they would based on only seeing photos of them.
Yeah I found that with the SM Centurions when they came out. Looks far better when you have them in your hands.
Strongly disagree. Nothing will ever redeem the Marketing Pattern Mini-Dreadknight.
Considering the speed at which people post on Warseer (which is approximately between that of a snail and a rock) we may have to wait a little to get some clarifications.
What I'd like to know is what's the difference between Brayherds and Warherds. Because Beastmen were never the faction I would have seen as desperately needing to be cut into subfactions.
Chaos Trolls, maybe? Admittedly they aren't very Thunderous, but they're the only thing I can think of that doesn't have an apparent faction (besides maybe Monsters of Chaos).
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Chaos Trolls, maybe? Admittedly they aren't very Thunderous, but they're the only thing I can think of that doesn't have an apparent faction (besides maybe Monsters of Chaos).
Not very scornful either
Chaos Ogres, maybe?
It would be interesting to see if Master Clan has anything more than just Grey Seers...
I loved rackham bigger miniatures the style was quite different ( for example uraken gobbos were almost chibi headed scale) then you have more accurate scaling on Red box stuff that look like small people in comparison with other ranges and so forth.
There is a market tendency for 32mm or bigger these days and thats quite obvious.
You may say that GW was more of an accident that a deliberated stylistic choice and that is debatable but the market scaling in general is getting bigger?
40mm scale has some following in the historicals arena.
jonolikespie wrote: When the hell did they become 21 different factions and not just WoC, DoC, Skaven, Beastmen, and then the Bloodbound and Everchosen thrown on top?
They are sub-factions based on keywords on the warscrolls. Mainly used in-game to distinguish units for the purposes of buffs and other synergies. I guess they will now become proper mini-factions. With the complete freedom of army building in AoS, there really is no downside to separating units into smaller factions like this.
Agreed, not having them printed out would have been a pretty big barrier to play, so it's smart to put them in a book for a reasonable price.
Folks tend to buy things like this even if they're not necessary - for Warmachine / Hordes, I've always bought the books, even though you don't really need them and can just use the cards.
RiTides wrote: Folks tend to buy things like this even if they're not necessary - for Warmachine / Hordes, I've always bought the books, even though you don't really need them and can just use the cards.
Technically, the WMH books tend to have models that haven't been released yet, so if you want to proxy new models you either need the books or a subscription to that faction's War Room deck. AoS's books have material not found anywhere else (of dubious worth)
I am curious if it will repeat the Bloodbound warscrolls and battalions (thus making the BattleTome obsolete). I think it would be pretty cool if they had the lore/scenario/image-heavy hardback BattleTomes, but also released cheap warscroll-only books to just collect a bunch of the free warscrolls in one convenient place.
I think scroll-only books would be good too. I like big hardback books with tons of art, but they're just not practical for playing when they're college textbook sized.
What I'd really like to see is warscrolls as decks of cards, either poker or tarot sized. maybe with a photo and stats on 1 side and special rules on the other.. and then have the card(s) included in the box sets rather than just printing the scroll on the model building instructions.
Yeah, the idea of a 20 quid book with just a butt-load of warscrolls is kind of tempting. Especially if it comes with the formations! I mean, you don't need it, not with the app... but then I've always found it much easier and quicker to flip through a book than through an app. Especially interesting since I intend my Khorne guys to be mostly a demo army for home games (I know people who like the idea of Fantasy, but wouldn't really go for 8th for whatever reason, whereas AoS is quick enough to explain that you can tell them the rules and get playing without prior knowledge).
Kesher wrote: Looks like it's just the new Dwarf models we saw in the e-Book preview, and the "chaos" part from last weeks teaser is the collector army box feature.
Wulfson_40K wrote: What I'd like to know is what's the difference between Brayherds and Warherds. Because Beastmen were never the faction I would have seen as desperately needing to be cut into subfactions.
I think it's purpose is for more keyword saturation, though I agree Beastmen didn't need it.
Considering the speed at which people post on Warseer (which is approximately between that of a snail and a rock) we may have to wait a little to get some clarifications.
I will be very interested to see how well the book sells if it's really just a parade of warscrolls.
So there is definitely fluff in the book. I which quantity I can't tell but apparently each faction will get at least one or two pages of fluff. In addition the book goes deeper when it comes to some of them. For example Slaanesh Hosts have 24 pages for themselves. The surviving followers of Slaanesh are now separated between Pretenders, Seekers and Invaders. Each have their own specific way of either venerating or aiming to replace Slaanesh.
If you wonder if Slaanesh followers are now more PG13, here is an excerpt from a page called "Unbound Revel", at least what I can read without a microscope:
"Counted among the most powerful of the Invaders, the Keeper of Secrets Xia'slae'shesos is dedicated utterly to the expression of his most twisted urges upon mortal flesh. He has surrounded himself with an army of degenerate pleasure seekers, whom he leads in monstrous rampages across the realms"
Still from what I get, you shall not expect vast and deep fluff or side stories.
I'm a bit underwhelmed by the final two characters - they could pass off as a Standard Bearer and Champion in the Hearthguard really. Overall I think the Fyreslayer range would have benefitted from another unit with more variety, a cavalry unit (of lava beasts) for example or a warmachine of sorts (the flame cannon?).
Still, there are some great models in the range, and I really think adding a small force into another army is going to be a very fun project for many AoSers. In fact, I can't wait for my box of Vulkite Bezerkers to arrive on Wednesday.
The Chaos Warscroll book sounds very interesting. I wonder if they'll do more? I'd likely pick up an Order equivalent. My only concern is how quickly these books will become out of date with the constant new releases.
And people keep mentioning the idea of warscroll cards. YES. PLEASE GW. LISTEN! I would buy a deck for every faction I play.
Bottle wrote: The Chaos Warscroll book sounds very interesting. I wonder if they'll do more? I'd likely pick up an Order equivalent. My only concern is how quickly these books will become out of date with the constant new releases.
And people keep mentioning the idea of warscroll cards. YES. PLEASE GW. LISTEN! I would buy a deck for every faction I play.
That's not alot of pages left for fluff and stuff.
it's going to be 90% warscrolls from the internet.
In terms of the rules (fluff aside), its not a must have.
I prefer to use my iPad for the warscrolls.
The warscrolls for the used models/units can be compactly put together in ''My Battle''.
Since it mentions 21 factions - and all factions have corresponding keywords - they're going to have to change some of the warscrolls to include the new faction keywords.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Since it mentions 21 factions - and all factions have corresponding keywords - they're going to have to change some of the warscrolls to include the new faction keywords.
Revisionism already? Do we still believe that GW started to work out the AoS rules two and half years ago?
Still, on the plus side, all the changes get rolled into the PDFs available free online, and in to the app data, so it's only your existing £45 books that get invalidated in less than six months..
Still, on the plus side, all the changes get rolled into the PDFs available free online, and in to the app data, so it's only your existing £45 books that get invalidated in less than six months..
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Since it mentions 21 factions - and all factions have corresponding keywords - they're going to have to change some of the warscrolls to include the new faction keywords.
Revisionism already? Do we still believe that GW started to work out the AoS rules two and half years ago?
Still, on the plus side, all the changes get rolled into the PDFs available free online, and in to the app data, so it's only your existing £45 books that get invalidated in less than six months..
I must have missed the books with Tzeentch Arcanites, Host of Slaanesh, Monsters of Chaos, Thunderscorn, etc.
It's basically just going to affect the PDFs, as the stuff that already has been in the books seems to be pretty solidified.
It's basically just going to affect the PDFs, as the stuff that already has been in the books seems to be pretty solidified.
Also, because of the way AoS is structured, nothing will ever be invalidated. Ever. GW can take a set of moulds and jump up and down on them going cockadoodaloo, and it won't matter because you can still use the Warscrolls they first released. You will never get an outdated Codex in AoS.
As someone who has been using his phone for the AoS app, I'll be all over that book with all the chaos warscrolls, fluff or no. Especially for including the battalions that are otherwise pay-blocked.
Also seconded on the revisions; the already released books won't be the ones with warscrolls getting changed. The initial wave is/was intended as a stopgap until the factions could be repacked anyways (see Seraphon).
Now, that's nice - the model went suddenly from "meh" to "pretty cool". Finally, some character to the Sigmarines. If only they were supposed to be that way...
It's basically just going to affect the PDFs, as the stuff that already has been in the books seems to be pretty solidified.
Also, because of the way AoS is structured, nothing will ever be invalidated. Ever. GW can take a set of moulds and jump up and down on them going cockadoodaloo, and it won't matter because you can still use the Warscrolls they first released. You will never get an outdated Codex in AoS.
Yes. This is something I LOVE about Age of Sigmar - although it's funny to think that as GW discontinues models there will be more and more (an ever growing) number of warscrolls with no miniatures available (Archaon on Horseback, for example), basically the opposite of what they have tried to do in 40k. :-p
Man, that headswap on the marine is just excellent. Shame you can't buy the heads separately for that use! Would cost an absolute fortune to do as-is, but look amazing.
RiTides wrote: Man, that headswap on the marine is just excellent. Shame you can't buy the heads separately for that use! Would cost an absolute fortune to do as-is, but look amazing.
I love that you think that's a head swap on a Marine!
I'm really not sure what to call them - I dislike the shorthand "Sigmarine", and they're not even described as "Stormcast Eternals" in their product pages:
Not to mention that is just way too long - 5 syllables before you've even described the variant!
Do people really say "Liberator Stormcast Eternals"? That's 9 syllables! I know for 40K, some things like "Devastators" get used, but other entries are descriptive ("Assault Marines", "Assault Terminators", etc). I feel like GW hasn't presented a good way to refer to this army (unlike "Space Marines" or even just "Marines" in 40k), and most people wouldn't know what I was talking about if I said "I love that Dwarf head on Liberator conversion"
Kanluwen wrote: You could always just call them "Stormcast"? Not unlike how many players shorten "Space Marines" to "Marines" or "Imperial Guard" to "Guard".
True, but people haven't adopted that... and it feels more like calling Space Marines "Space", or Imperial Guard "Imperial"
RiTides wrote: I'm really not sure what to call them - I dislike the shorthand "Sigmarine", and they're not even described as "Stormcast Eternals" in their product pages:
'Stormcast Eternals' covers the entire group, with the various types (Judicators, Liberators, etc.). Its like Space Marines with their various types (Assault Marines, Devastators, etc.).
angelofvengeance wrote: Soo- sneak preview of the Fyreslayer paint schemes if anyone's interested... Some good. Some bad.
So, we have the Fyreslayers not being tied to a single realm. Awesome!
Also, it looks like we've got an idea as to who "Malerion" leads--the "Shadowkin".
So far I see Fyreslayers from the Realm of Death(Shyish), Realm of Shadows(Ulgu), the Realm of Heavens(Azyr), and the Realm of Light(Hysh).
The Mortal Realms are really starting to feel alive with this Fyreslayers release. I love all the tidbits of fluff we are getting - the Shadowkin sound very interesting, and I wonder if the "gloom tribes" from Shyish that were mentioned in this week's White Dwarf (and in one of the battleplans) will be expanded upon too? So many questions unfolding. I love it!
It's all quite simple really. The Gloom Trybes follow Borblegoth, the Ever Saddened God, and wyeld his power through the dark magyk of Ennui. They travel the Mortal Realms yn search of the magykal elyxier which, yt ys prophesyed will finally allow them to smyle agayn, but only ever at nyght, because they sparkle yf exposed to sunlyght and yt hurts theyr feelyngs when the Sygmarines take the pyss out of them for yt. The Shadowkyn, who worship Emoworble, the Ever Angsty God, hate and despyse the Gloom Trybes and see theyr quest to once more fynd joy as a betrayal of all the Gods of the Realm of Shadow. Yadda yadda, Sigmarines show up for some reason, and everyone learns the Power of Fryendship, the end.
In all seriousness though, any hope that them beginning to flesh out the setting might redeem it is firmly gone - I thought sitting through the first episode of that Shadowhunters TV series would be the low point of this week, but evidently I once again underestimate GW.
It's all quite simple really. The Gloom Trybes follow Borblegoth, the Ever Saddened God, and wyeld his power through the dark magyk of Ennui. They travel the Mortal Realms yn search of the magykal elyxier which, yt ys prophesyed will finally allow them to smyle agayn, but only ever at nyght, because they sparkle yf exposed to sunlyght and yt hurts theyr feelyngs when the Sygmarines take the pyss out of them for yt. The Shadowkyn, who worship Emoworble, the Ever Angsty God, hate and despyse the Gloom Trybes and see theyr quest to once more fynd joy as a betrayal of all the Gods of the Realm of Shadow. Yadda yadda, Sigmarines show up for some reason, and everyone learns the Power of Fryendship, the end.
In all seriousness though, any hope that them beginning to flesh out the setting might redeem it is firmly gone - I thought sitting through the lfirst episode of that Shadowhunters TV series would be the low point of this week, but evidently I once again underestimate GW.
I believe The Gloom Trybes are lead by their darkest lord Kylo Ryn...
It's all quite simple really. The Gloom Trybes follow Borblegoth, the Ever Saddened God, and wyeld his power through the dark magyk of Ennui. They travel the Mortal Realms yn search of the magykal elyxier which, yt ys prophesyed will finally allow them to smyle agayn, but only ever at nyght, because they sparkle yf exposed to sunlyght and yt hurts theyr feelyngs when the Sygmarines take the pyss out of them for yt. The Shadowkyn, who worship Emoworble, the Ever Angsty God, hate and despyse the Gloom Trybes and see theyr quest to once more fynd joy as a betrayal of all the Gods of the Realm of Shadow. Yadda yadda, Sigmarines show up for some reason, and everyone learns the Power of Fryendship, the end.
In all seriousness though, any hope that them beginning to flesh out the setting might redeem it is firmly gone - I thought sitting through the first episode of that Shadowhunters TV series would be the low point of this week, but evidently I once again underestimate GW.
At the risk of attracting Mod-wrath, I have to say this:
Seriously, we get it. You don't like Age of Sigmar. You have been poo-pooing this thing since the first rumors of the End Times came out. It's old hat by now. If you hate the game so much, why not stay out of threads for it, hm? You'll probably save yourself a migraine.
As for the topic at hand: The Magmadroth in that Battleplan looks like they basecoated it, then forgot to finish painting it; the Fyreslayers around it don't help it out very much, either. What strikes me as curious is how this whole mercenaries thing is going to work: is it specific to the battleplans in the book, or what?
on topic, the Auric Runemaster is one of my favorite AoS releases, so far...
that wicked animal design on the helmet, the shaved lip (which reminds me of the old fishermen's style, or some of the interpretations of ancient Greek's style), and details on the staff are really making me want to paint that guy...
he may just be my pick of the lot from the last six months of releases for this new setting...
since the Khorne Lord from the starter needs a resculpt of his abdomen (not a skull acne fan), the Runeson wins for being perfect straight off the sprue, but it's a tough choice between the two...
i look forward to seeing what they do with Orcs...
Kilkrazy wrote: Are the helmet plumes the actual hair of the dwarves, pulled through a hole?
This is how early Samurai did it, though they did not arrange their hair into Greek style manes.
Yes they are. The WD made it clear several times which I'm glad they did because just a look at pics or even the fluff for rune-chaos-dwarf-shaved-upper lip character guy can be misleading concerning his double crest. The BL book as well fortunately corroborates.
I like the samurai inspiration though for a cool conversion idea
So the gloom tribes are apparently a group of peoples indigenous to Shyish who paid a Lodge of Fyreslayers to slay the Vampire Queen Cyssandra who lorded it over them. There is a battleplan that tells the full story in the new battletome apparently (I am just reciting White Dwarf here). We don't know if the gloom tribes are people or something else, but it is a glimpse of an "NPC" faction as it were. These little factions are starting to fill the stories of the Mortal Realms (similar tribes have appeared in BL fiction).
It is something I am a fan of because I have criticized the setting for being too empty on quite a few occasions. I am glad to see GW make the effort to bring the Mortal Realms to life - even if they are doing it very slowly.
Oh, we know the Gloom Tribes live underground and apparently the battleplan takes place in a dungeon where the Fyreslayers attempt to slay the Vampire Queen. (Sounds fun, I love dungeons! And let's get a rumour mill turning: dungeons can only mean a return of Warhammer Quest amirite!? ;-)
With the "Shadowkin" mentioned in the painting guide previewed on the last page - we get more information on them from the associated Fyreslayer Lodge of Caengan. White Dwarf states, "...the Caengan lodge have learned to survive amid the swirling mists to find the ur-gold hidden there. The Warriors of their grand fyrd have mastered the subtle art of war as practiced by the Shroudling Kings, enabling them to survive against the murderous denizens found in the Realm of Shadow. Their lodge icon (right) also has more than a little of the "aelf" to it..."
Pictured to the right, the icon looks like Chaos Dwarves meets Dark Eldar or something lol. (An angry dwarf face with lots of curved blades making up its facial hair).
It's little snippets like this that I find facinating.
I still think GW could write much more interesting source material though. I would like to read about Fyreslayer women and how the Lodge trades with other peoples in its locale. Do they trade metals for food? Is the warrior caste an elite? What about the other jobs like the artisans who build their cities and axes?
If the White Dwarf fluff is anything to go by, nothing like the above will be covered though and it'll just be the same FIRE, UR GOLD, KEYS, RUNES, AXES, LAVA etc arranged in a variety of sentences.
You might be able to find some of that information in "Legends of the Age of Sigmar: Fyreslayers" story collection.
I'm going to thumb through it at my local GW on Saturday, assuming Snowmageddon doesn't screw me over or screw the shop out of getting its deliveries, and hope like hell it has something about the Shadowkin(first faction I'm GENUINELY EXCITED FOR!).
Kilkrazy wrote: Are the helmet plumes the actual hair of the dwarves, pulled through a hole? This is how early Samurai did it, though they did not arrange their hair into Greek style manes.
Sorry, but no they did not (despite what Turnbull's silly claims).
There are a few drawings of samurai with their black (and probably damp with sweat) eboshi beanie through the tehen hole to create a bit of aircondition - but to pull hair through the tiny AC-hole would have been utterly stupid (as well as uncomfortable as f..k).
This said, the AoS Dwarfs obviously do it - using a much bigger hole.
I like it but would have preferred them eithout any armour running around butt naked - Pict style
I imagine the Chaos warriors and a few other kits will be up for "preorder" as reboxed kits tomorrow.
Looks like some big changes are going on in the webstore. Noticed the metal slayers are now gone, and lots of the chaos has been renamed (for example the excellent "Chaos Khorne Lord" is now another "Exhalted Deathbringer".)
Bottle wrote: I imagine the Chaos warriors and a few other kits will be up for "preorder" as reboxed kits tomorrow.
Nope. The only Chaos preorders for this week are all Khorne (Bloodthirster, Bloodcrushers, Bloodletters and the Skull Cannon/Blood Throne). Those are next week's preorders (January 30th).
Bottle wrote: I imagine the Chaos warriors and a few other kits will be up for "preorder" as reboxed kits tomorrow.
Looks like some big changes are going on in the webstore. Noticed the metal slayers are now gone, and lots of the chaos has been renamed (for example the excellent "Chaos Khorne Lord" is now another "Exhalted Deathbringer".)
Villitch the Curseling is now just a 'Curseling, Lord of Tzeentch'.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, whoever called Thunderscorn as being Dragon Ogres was right, ditto with difference between Brayherds (Bestigors, Gors, Ungors) and Warherds (big monsters and 'Bullgors', formerly known as Minotaurs).
Manfred von Drakken wrote: .. ditto with difference between Brayherds (Bestigors, Gors, Ungors) and Warherds (big monsters and 'Bullgors', formerly known as Minotaurs).
Note that the Jabberslythe, Razorgor and Centigors were moved to 'Monsters of Chaos'.
Many of these changes have been present on the warscrolls since the onset or for quite a while, if one looked at the keywords. The exalted deathbringer change, for example, was made with the bloodbound book release when that model got the option to be sword & axe as well as the greataxe & punchy-thing option.
Thanks for the clear up everyone. Still think there has been some other renaming. Ikit Claw is called an "Arch-Warlock" for example.
I guess with the release of the grand alliance books (if more are coming) we'll likely see this shake-up again to move models into keyword factions. For example Death would have Deathrattle, Mordant, Dead Walkers and Malignant perhaps.
Chaos Knight re-packs also confirm the Varanguard were never intended as replacements for them, to clear up some of the fearful speculation in these threads during their release.
The website is going to need a little more sorting out though. Currently clanrats and storm vermin don't seem to have a home in any of the factions either.
One with a random vowel replaced with a Y, in a completely lazy way of looking 'alternative' and 'kewl'. The other with a proper, generally accepted Y, but still completely lazy. Do we wait for fyreslayer huscarls and thegns to show up? Swinging a few dan... er, dyneaxes around?
If the White Dwarf fluff is anything to go by, nothing like the above will be covered though and it'll just be the same FYRE, UR GYLD, KYYS, RYNES, YXES, LYVY etc arranged in a variety of sentences.
Fyxed that for you.
But otherwise I think you're right. AoS's background wasn't designed for subtlety. Despite whatever hints are turning up, it arguably fits the IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY WAR bit better than 40K.
One with a random vowel replaced with a Y, in a completely lazy way of looking 'alternative' and 'kewl'. The other with a proper, generally accepted Y, but still completely lazy. Do we wait for fyreslayer huscarls and thegns to show up? Swinging a few dan... er, dyneaxes around?
I disagree, it is actually GW's way of looking 'altyrnatyve' and 'kywl'. Soon we will see fyreslayer huskyrls and thyns, throwing dynayxes.
But more seriously, GW has been this bad about naming for a while now. And many of the names are borderline; they wouldn't seem quite as bad if our attention wasn't drawn to them by those that are really bad. But names this bad are nothing new, and I would at least take a y-switchout over another 'ripperdactyls' or murderfang's murderlust causing him to murder people with his murderclaws. Of course, just having decent names would be ideal, but with market research being otiose that's really too much to ask for.
Curious on the repackage price. The resized units for the Lizardmen (Saurus Warriors & Temple Guard) both got fairly significant discount on a per model basis. So I'm interested to see if there is any change for the Calvary, Warriors, or Marauders.
Also interested in seeing how much that larger expansion is. I don't need 2 chariots (only one) for my KoW list but the rest is all stuff I was considering purchasing separately.
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Chaos book has edited out a number of the most egregious offenders from the flavor rules (Masque and Slaanesh lord on steed, I'm looking at you).
Red_Zeke wrote: Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Chaos book has edited out a number of the most egregious offenders from the flavor rules (Masque and Slaanesh lord on steed, I'm looking at you).
What do you mean? Removal of units or a change to the actual rules on their warscrolls?
I'm guessing the idea is that with the purchase of one box of cavalry (or whatever unit you want), you'd have enough to play with and wouldn't need any more?
Of course if GW really is in the business of selling models, they're going to need to get a game like Warhammer Quest: Age of Sigmar to make me go out and buy just about the whole damned range...
Those new Start Collecting boxes plus the local shop's discount has actually made me purchase a fair amount of GW lately.
Of course if GW really is in the business of selling models, they're going to need to get a game like Warhammer Quest: Age of Sigmar to make me go out and buy just about the whole damned range...
.
For AoS, they've removed 'army' limitations to allow people to pick up a box of whatever looks cool here and there. It'll work on me when they rebase/repack the Stormfiends.
Though WQ:AoS would be absolutely sessions. Surely that has to happen with the new SG studio...
Accolade wrote: Was AOS ever really marketed by GW as a game that was supposed to be smaller in scale than WHFB, or what that just what fans of the game were saying?
The rules do mention that more models = more excitement, and points towards games of 100 models a side.
I really like that they're doing these cheaper bundles. I hope it's not like some scheme to just move a bunch of stock for a little while and they keep doing them forever. Looking forward to my lizardman box that I think will be here on Tuesday finally. Would have been nice to have that sooner so I could build everything while I was snowed in this weekend
I think it would be ideal if each army has a nice starter box set with a good mix of stuff, and also boxes for each formation too.. then you have the regular separate unit boxes to add on to those.
I think it would be ideal if each army has a nice starter box set with a good mix of stuff, and also boxes for each formation too.. then you have the regular separate unit boxes to add on to those.
Kind of like what Spartan does wtih most of their games? Sell the units in sets rather than as individual items? I'd be down for it if the price was right, and most of these newer box sets seem to be a step in the right direction.
Accolade wrote: Was AOS ever really marketed by GW as a game that was supposed to be smaller in scale than WHFB, or what that just what fans of the game were saying?
Maybe I'm making the mistake of missremembering something my local GW mooks were saying as official GW marketing.
Accolade wrote: Was AOS ever really marketed by GW as a game that was supposed to be smaller in scale than WHFB, or what that just what fans of the game were saying?
GW doesn't do Marketing, because it's otyose, so obviously they never marketted AoS as a small scale game.
It just looks like one because it's mechanically stupid to have to move and fight hundreds of figures individually, but you can do it a lot more easily with skirmish games, which is the point of them.
I wonder if the 'Start collecting' range will be expanded? We are notably lacking in anything from many Order and Destruction ranges, not to mention corporeal undead. Chaos, by contrast, seem fairly well provided for at the moment. It is interesting to wonder whether GW plan on having a whole range of these boxes, or whether the existing ones are designed as a special set and won't be expanded upon. These seem to have sold like crazy, though, so you might think that it would be tempting to expand the range?
Im wishlisting at this point, but I really want to see a Khemric Titan, new Blood Knights, and new a Necrolith Colossus kit, even though they got rid of Heiro-titans.
Charles Rampant wrote: I wonder if the 'Start collecting' range will be expanded? We are notably lacking in anything from many Order and Destruction ranges, not to mention corporeal undead. Chaos, by contrast, seem fairly well provided for at the moment. It is interesting to wonder whether GW plan on having a whole range of these boxes, or whether the existing ones are designed as a special set and won't be expanded upon. These seem to have sold like crazy, though, so you might think that it would be tempting to expand the range?
They might be based on what has been selling recently, so chaos receiving love means they get a few boxes, a faction that hasn't got a release yet might not sell well enough for anyone to worry about a box.
Accolade wrote: Was AOS ever really marketed by GW as a game that was supposed to be smaller in scale than WHFB, or what that just what fans of the game were saying?
GW doesn't do Marketing, because it's otyose, so obviously they never marketted AoS as a small scale game.
It just looks like one because it's mechanically stupid to have to move and fight hundreds of figures individually, but you can do it a lot more easily with skirmish games, which is the point of them.
GW doesn't do Marketing, because it's otyose, so obviously they never marketted AoS as a small scale game.
otyose
Exalted.
More on-topic, if GW had done a 'start collecting' box for each army alongside the AoS starter release then I suspect the game would be doing several orders of magnitude better right now. Better late than never though, those boxes are a solid move in the right direction. Waiting to see what horrid thing they will do to counteract that.
jonolikespie wrote: Anyone else remember when AoS was marketed as a smaller game with a lower barrier of entry?
How does reboxing cavalry in boxes of 10 accomplish this?
Yes cheaper per model, but the barrier of entry goes up as does the unit sizes...
Given that they usually include the parts to build multiple units at the minimum size rather than a single unit at a "bigger than minimum" size, that's not strictly true. You have three or four boxes from the Khorne Bloodbound that are at least double the minimum unit size but include parts for you to build one big unit or two smaller units instead.
Stormcast Eternals are the only "new" ones that really do not have any larger than minimum size boxes barring the Paladins box.
jonolikespie wrote: Anyone else remember when AoS was marketed as a smaller game with a lower barrier of entry?
How does reboxing cavalry in boxes of 10 accomplish this?
Yes cheaper per model, but the barrier of entry goes up as does the unit sizes...
In my AoS group, 50 - 60 models seems to be the ideal size for a game. Anything more starts slowing things down. Even GW recommended only bringing 50 - 60 models for their recent Throne of Skulls event. What's wrong with the larger unit boxes? It just means your entire unit is finished in one purchase. We were complaining before how you needed to buy 4 - 8 boxes to complete a unit in 8th Edition.
jonolikespie wrote: Anyone else remember when AoS was marketed as a smaller game with a lower barrier of entry?
How does reboxing cavalry in boxes of 10 accomplish this?
Yes cheaper per model, but the barrier of entry goes up as does the unit sizes...
In my AoS group, 50 - 60 models seems to be the ideal size for a game. Anything more starts slowing things down. Even GW recommended only bringing 50 - 60 models for their recent Throne of Skulls event. What's wrong with the larger unit boxes? It just means your entire unit is finished in one purchase. We were complaining before how you needed to buy 4 - 8 boxes to complete a unit in 8th Edition.
10 cavalry seems to be the perfect box size to me because you can split in 2 units of 5, have a respectable unit of 8 or go crazy and have 10 knights. I would prefer to buy 1 box and Im done with than several.
One box with double the number instead of 2 boxes psychologically lowers the inhibition to buy it even if both products are the same cost. Because the single box, as noted above, feels done. You don't feel nickel and dimed if you buy a single box like you do multiples of smaller boxes.
Given that they discounted the Lizardmen reboxes with increased numbers I've got my hopes up but we'll see how it goes.
Hulksmash wrote: One box with double the number instead of 2 boxes psychologically lowers the inhibition to buy it even if both products are the same cost. Because the single box, as noted above, feels done. You don't feel nickel and dimed if you buy a single box like you do multiples of smaller boxes.
Given that they discounted the Lizardmen reboxes with increased numbers I've got my hopes up but we'll see how it goes.
True but any gamer on a budget would probably make this box grow in value. I mean build 6 regular knights add some jazz and build 3 varanguards and still leaves you one mini for a lord
Age of Sigmar is most definitely designed to be played at smaller levels than WHFB. GW never outright say it because well, more models more money!. But the rules pamphlet states that 100 models aside will take an evening (3+ hours), so scale accordingly. Usually I like my games to take 1 1/2 hours, so 50 models usually - you could easily field 50 models in one regiment in 8th.
Yaraton wrote: Has it been mentioned that some of the miniatures from the ranges which are now in Chaos Alliance have been moved to the section "Last Chance to buy"?
Which ones?
Never mind! Found them. List is:
Throgg
Galrauch
Tretch Craventail
Skaven Battalion
Beastmen Battalion
Forsaken
Charles Rampant wrote: I wonder if the 'Start collecting' range will be expanded? We are notably lacking in anything from many Order and Destruction ranges, not to mention corporeal undead. Chaos, by contrast, seem fairly well provided for at the moment. It is interesting to wonder whether GW plan on having a whole range of these boxes, or whether the existing ones are designed as a special set and won't be expanded upon. These seem to have sold like crazy, though, so you might think that it would be tempting to expand the range?
I think it's practically certain to be. The starters like the Seraphon box £50 are really good value and give you enough to kick off a decent AoS army while still allowing scope for spending a couple of hundred more on additional units.
Also, they are easy for GW to produce by simply repackaging their recalled legacy army kits with round bases.
Red_Zeke wrote: Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Chaos book has edited out a number of the most egregious offenders from the flavor rules (Masque and Slaanesh lord on steed, I'm looking at you).
What do you mean? Removal of units or a change to the actual rules on their warscrolls?
Mostly the latter. For instance, the Masque gets her re-rolls to hit automatically and to wound based on comparison of move rates rather than you and your opponent dancing respectively. Some less awkward ones remain, like the GUO command ability. And some are gone outright, like Wulfrik.
Yaraton wrote: Has it been mentioned that some of the miniatures from the ranges which are now in Chaos Alliance have been moved to the section "Last Chance to buy"?
Which ones?
Never mind! Found them. List is:
Throgg
Galrauch
Tretch Craventail
Skaven Battalion
Beastmen Battalion
Forsaken
Interesting that they are removing Throgg, Tretch, and Forsaken even though they are newer models, I am guessing it's related to poor sales but I didn't realize sales were THAT poor. Apparently sculpting terd Forsaken models and selling them and the other two at ridiculous prices did not correlate to greater profits.
I know my flgs made one order for the Forsaken boxes when they were released. They have never restocked them, and most are still on the shelf.
[edit] Actually on second glance Tretch is a solid model for a solid price, maybe because he never really had a place in the army; he was a bit tacked-on and didn't have a niche to fit.
Didn't realize the beastmen battalion had gone last chance. Not gonna lie. It prompted me to use some of my existing store credit to grab 2 battalions. The set is great and makes an excellent basis for a KoW Herd army and rpg bad guys
Also unlike other boxsets you actually use everything in the Beastmen Battalion.
Yeah, Beast Battalion has decent savings too. Throgg is kinda surprising, he's been specifically mentioned in the new background material, albeit just in passing.
Red_Zeke wrote: Yeah, Beast Battalion has decent savings too. Throgg is kinda surprising, he's been specifically mentioned in the new background material, albeit just in passing.
Which is why I'm saying that we'll likely see a new Chaos Trolls kit that can build a beastin' Throgg.
That's so going to help AoS skyrocket its sales EVEN MORE.
I thought reboxing was a pointless exercise. Then boxing day came, and everything in a white box was gone, and everything in the old red/gold boxes were still there, so, well, I'm convinced. Also, lizardmen sales were horrible at all 3 stores I frequent. Reboxing, and BOOM. Sales are great at two of them. Even the big, huge (super expensive) set sold.
I'm of half a mind that GW outsells its competitors in gaming stores simply because they have nicer boxes
Never judge a book by its cover... but what the heck, buy the one with the nicer artwork.
That's so going to help AoS skyrocket its sales EVEN MORE.
What's your point? They clearly need to rebox everything for Age of Sigmar, and they're throwing in some discounted box sets while they're at it... there's really nothing to be negative about here.
Hulksmash wrote: Didn't realize the beastmen battalion had gone last chance. Not gonna lie. It prompted me to use some of my existing store credit to grab 2 battalions. The set is great and makes an excellent basis for a KoW Herd army and rpg bad guys
Also unlike other boxsets you actually use everything in the Beastmen Battalion.
I bought one specifically for Warhammer Quest. A lot of great stuff in there.
RoninXiC wrote: Why do they need to rebox? Bases do not exist in AoS.
Now you're being obtuse on purpose. They need to rebox because they use round bases for AoS, and because they need to have "Age of Sigmar" on the box instead of "Warhammer Fantasy Battles".
Necros wrote: It probable means "last chance to buy our old stock before we have to pay people to repackage them with round bases"
All Lizard Man kits were withdrawn and repackaged with round bases or put into several bundle packs with round bases.
It's obviously better for GW to be able to sell out a legacy army in the old package, because they save money and can sell you expensive round bases too.
If you hang on, though, all the legacy armies are likely to be withdrawn and re-released eventually, with good value starter boxes. But this will take time since they obviously plan to do it alongside new army books. In some cases, e.g. Dwarfadins, it looks like GW may replace the legacy kits with new, more expensive options.
RoninXiC wrote: Why do they need to rebox?
Bases do not exist in AoS.
Now you're being obtuse on purpose. They need to rebox because they use round bases for AoS, and because they need to have "Age of Sigmar" on the box instead of "Warhammer Fantasy Battles".
So they need new boxes, but not necessarily rebox from 5 to 10.
Or the coloured boxes cost much more than the plastic inside, than GW saves a lot of money if they put the stuff from 2 old boxes into 1 new
RoninXiC wrote: Why do they need to rebox? Bases do not exist in AoS.
Now you're being obtuse on purpose. They need to rebox because they use round bases for AoS, and because they need to have "Age of Sigmar" on the box instead of "Warhammer Fantasy Battles".
So they need new boxes, but not necessarily rebox from 5 to 10.
Or the coloured boxes cost much more than the plastic inside, than GW saves a lot of money if they put the stuff from 2 old boxes into 1 new
Well yeah that's something they don't need to do. It's part of what seems to be a new strategy of lowering prices per model but forcing you to buy more of them to compensate. The bigger box sets have huge savings and these doubled up unit boxes seem to have smaller savings.
RoninXiC wrote: Why do they need to rebox?
Bases do not exist in AoS.
Now you're being obtuse on purpose. They need to rebox because they use round bases for AoS, and because they need to have "Age of Sigmar" on the box instead of "Warhammer Fantasy Battles".
So they need new boxes, but not necessarily rebox from 5 to 10.
Or the coloured boxes cost much more than the plastic inside, than GW saves a lot of money if they put the stuff from 2 old boxes into 1 new
Well yeah that's something they don't need to do. It's part of what seems to be a new strategy of lowering prices per model but forcing you to buy more of them to compensate. The bigger box sets have huge savings and these doubled up unit boxes seem to have smaller savings.
Which would have been great back in WHFB but doesn't really make sense in AoS. Unless they are trying to turn AoS in to a large scale loose formation game in which case it's even less appealing than it was before
Bottle wrote: I think "last chance to buy" means those sculpts (or specific boxsets in regards to the battalions) are going the way of the dodo.
To be honest I thought the fat trimming would be much more severe to AoS but so far most of the range is making it through intact.
I wouldn't be surprised to see more things added to the "Last Chance" list or just eradicated outright without warning.
I would be.
They could have gotten rid of the Chaos Knights with the release of Varanguard--but they're not.
We're still, IMO, too early on in AoS to say definitively whether they are discontinuing or removing things without replacements.
Of all the stuff listed? Throgg's Finecast, Galrauch is Finecast(and old+tiny), Tretch Craventail is metal, the Skaven/Beastmen Battalions could just be going away because of rebasing and reboxing potential, and Forsaken did not sell well ever.
Is there an easy link for their "last chance" section? Hard to find on a phone, although I could find any individual item in it. In general I think the site is insane to navigate now but would like to at least bookmark that section.
Also are items in it discounted further, and is there a way to tell by how much?
No discount or anything ritides. Just listing of things that when they eventually sell out will be gone most likely.
And yeah Killkrazy, I expect there to be a new starter style thing for both skaven and beastmen. Probably even relatively soon. But for me I wanted the beastmen battalion because I can use it all. I don't really need a big plastic monster or minotaurs (the only other plastic sets in the range). And I don't care for a lot of the skaven set so I'll happily wait to see if a "Get Started" set comes out for them without plague priests
Bottle wrote: I think "last chance to buy" means those sculpts (or specific boxsets in regards to the battalions) are going the way of the dodo.
To be honest I thought the fat trimming would be much more severe to AoS but so far most of the range is making it through intact.
I wouldn't be surprised to see more things added to the "Last Chance" list or just eradicated outright without warning.
I would be.
They could have gotten rid of the Chaos Knights with the release of Varanguard--but they're not.
We're still, IMO, too early on in AoS to say definitively whether they are discontinuing or removing things without replacements.
Of all the stuff listed? Throgg's Finecast, Galrauch is Finecast(and old+tiny), Tretch Craventail is metal, the Skaven/Beastmen Battalions could just be going away because of rebasing and reboxing potential, and Forsaken did not sell well ever.
But Varanguard didn't really replace Chaos Knights did they? I thought they were more "mini-heroes" rather than just run of the mill Knights.
Obviously we're too early, I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised to see other things added to the list or simply disappear. GW has never been good about telling us when things are going. Things sometimes disappear just before a new release (but not with any significant lead time), just slowly go out of stock (lots of LOTR stuff), sometimes parts of armies just go while other parts linger (Bretonnians). I can't remember what warning we got when Specialist games died, I just remember it being a mad rush.
Bottle wrote: I think "last chance to buy" means those sculpts (or specific boxsets in regards to the battalions) are going the way of the dodo.
To be honest I thought the fat trimming would be much more severe to AoS but so far most of the range is making it through intact.
I'm wondering how much trimming is to come. I'm particularly interested in what is going to happen to things like the Empire range (which no longer seems to have a place in the current fluff?).
Honestly the empire range, outside of a few things you could probably incorporate is meh anyway and since so many historicals fill it I think it'd be a good idea to go a different direction. Guess we'll see but I'd expect non-warmachine/monster stuff to go away.
I think I remember seeing a big photo of empire + sigmarines mixed together and painted in similar colors like they are all one big army, I think there was a war altar or 2 mixed in with some other models.
I'm sure they will just be repackaging the plastics eventually and giving them round bases and new names. I'd like to add some of those gryphon knights to my sigmarine army, but I'm gonna wait till they update the bases so everything will match. not like i don't have anything else to paint...
I'd like the Empire stuff to take on more of the weird and wacky steampunk style Renaissance look they had going for them, rather than basic historical stand- ins.
Always liked the steam tanks and would love to see them develop more stuff along those lines. What about some automatons to do all the grunt work?
I know people would cry foul of trying to copy Warmachine if there's too much steampunk, but hell, that's stuff been there for so long in WH anyways, might as well embrace it I think.
That's so going to help AoS skyrocket its sales EVEN MORE.
What's your point? They clearly need to rebox everything for Age of Sigmar, and they're throwing in some discounted box sets while they're at it... there's really nothing to be negative about here.
Except they sold me a huge rulebook for a game called Warhammer not so long back costing £50 and I need figures with square and rectangular bases to play it.
I just wish they'd slap the round/oval bases into the boxes as well as the square/rectangular ones. It would keep 2 sets of people happy.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'd like the Empire stuff to take on more of the weird and wacky steampunk style Renaissance look they had going for them, rather than basic historical stand- ins.
Always liked the steam tanks and would love to see them develop more stuff along those lines. What about some automatons to do all the grunt work?
I know people would cry foul of trying to copy Warmachine if there's too much steampunk, but hell, that's stuff been there for so long in WH anyways, might as well embrace it I think.
This is what I want too, flying windmills and all that craziness.
The burning question though with Age of Sigmar and all the factions bar Order making it through unscathed so far is: Why is it only the order factions that need to be changed!? Were they all worst sellers? Because my impression was High Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarfs and Empire were some of the best sellers - and yet Age of Sigmar is becoming Age of Everything-the-same-as-it-was-before-except-order
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'd like the Empire stuff to take on more of the weird and wacky steampunk style Renaissance look they had going for them, rather than basic historical stand- ins.
Always liked the steam tanks and would love to see them develop more stuff along those lines. What about some automatons to do all the grunt work?
I know people would cry foul of trying to copy Warmachine if there's too much steampunk, but hell, that's stuff been there for so long in WH anyways, might as well embrace it I think.
This is what I want too, flying windmills and all that craziness.
The burning question though with Age of Sigmar and all the factions bar Order making it through unscathed so far is: Why is it only the order factions that need to be changed!? Were they all worst sellers? Because my impression was High Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarfs and Empire were some of the best sellers - and yet Age of Sigmar is becoming Age of Everything-the-same-as-it-was-before-except-order
Would love to see more whacky stuff for the Empire, but their pseudo-historicity was what made me love the old State Troops and Greatswords. It's possible we will see a great culling when the other factions get AoS updates. I think GW really wants to push an aesthetic that both stands separate of what came before and create a more defensible IP (not saying that's possible/a good idea). The Order armies are less distinct and defensible: you have traditional variations of Elves, historically inspired humans, standard Dwarves, and so on. Then again not all of the Destruction or Death armies are all that distinct either (with the exception of Skaven and the various flavors of Chaos).
Regardless, it will be very interesting to see where GW goes from here with AoS.
I would rather have small, unaligned, thematic and unique warbands, things like a group of fimir etc I think warhammer has the potential to create little stories with cool warbands box sets.
Looking at the GW site; there seems to be a few sub-factions that are rather light on variety, like Tzeentch Arcanites, Thunderscorn and definitely "Gargants" (only looked at chaos).
So light, in fact, that I get the impression that they are not complete (esp. Arcanites) and/or will be reorganized (anyone notice that giants don't have a chaos keyword).
Thoughts? Possibility that the big new chaos book will have warscrolls that we don't have models for yet (assuming it will be complete for some time)? That would be quite the teaser.
DarkBlack wrote: Thoughts? Possibility that the big new chaos book will have warscrolls that we don't have models for yet (assuming it will be complete for some time)? That would be quite the teaser.
Looks like we have had all the love for chaos for a while then. Which is good seeing as we need other alliances to stay interested.
Do other countries also have most of the "slaves to darkness" stuff missing?
That's so going to help AoS skyrocket its sales EVEN MORE.
What's your point? They clearly need to rebox everything for Age of Sigmar, and they're throwing in some discounted box sets while they're at it... there's really nothing to be negative about here.
Except they sold me a huge rulebook for a game called Warhammer not so long back costing £50 and I need figures with square and rectangular bases to play it.
I just wish they'd slap the round/oval bases into the boxes as well as the square/rectangular ones. It would keep 2 sets of people happy.
Everyone who ever bought something shortly before it stopped being supported has been annoyed, that is unfortunately the nature of commercial products. As for doubling up on bases, that would make little sense since Warhammer Fantasy is no longer supported. It would be an additional cost that would serve mostly to confuse new customers. It sucks for you but fortunately square bases can be had super cheap from any number of manufacturers. I have to buy tons of rounds and ovals to rebate my WHFB minis so I can sympathize.
NAVARRO wrote: I would rather have small, unaligned, thematic and unique warbands, things like a group of fimir etc I think warhammer has the potential to create little stories with cool warbands box sets.
We can't have that, that would be a great idea.
How cool would be little warbands of various sub-factions (empire cities/states, dwarf strongholds, goblin hosts) that go beyond an army's main themes (like a Caledor based high elf army, the kingdom not the dude). The slayers were actually one such option but bubbleverse kinda changed them into something different and I don't know if any distinct elements from all the armies are left after bubblversing everything. It feels like other factions will also get some minis that are themed after something from the old WHFB world but made over the top yet bland at the same time.
Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
We literally just got the names for the Tzeentch Arcanites this past week. Give it some time.
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
The more reliable rumor sources say we should be seeing some Chaos models of the blue variety this year.
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
The more reliable rumor sources say we should be seeing some Chaos models of the blue variety this year.
That would be fun. Would love to see some non-spell casting Tzeentch mortals. They've never seemed to have a terribly well defined role, and I feel like there's a lot of space to explore there.
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
We literally just got the names for the Tzeentch Arcanites this past week. Give it some time.
AoS has literally been out for months, how much time are we supposed to wait to learn our faction's name?
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
We literally just got the names for the Tzeentch Arcanites this past week. Give it some time.
AoS has literally been out for months, how much time are we supposed to wait to learn our faction's name?
KingmanHighborn wrote: Well at least it looks like Slaanesh isn't getting offed after all.
Wow, we finally learned something that was told to us literally as soon as Age of Sigmar was released. Seriously, how has it taken this long for people to realise this? Every source that has mentioned Slaanesh has claimed that it is only missing, which is EXACTLY the same as what is being said about the Aelves for the most part, yet no one makes claims that they are being 'offed'.
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
We literally just got the names for the Tzeentch Arcanites this past week. Give it some time.
AoS has literally been out for months, how much time are we supposed to wait to learn our faction's name?
Which faction do you play?
Dark Elves for one, Vampires were the other. Plus Bretonnians now that I think about it. My point was more related to the "Tzeentch Arcanites" though. Great, we learned their name this week. And a Tzeentch player had to wait how long to learn even that (mostly irrelevant) information about their army?
NAVARRO wrote: I would rather have small, unaligned, thematic and unique warbands, things like a group of fimir etc I think warhammer has the potential to create little stories with cool warbands box sets.
That'd be great. The way AoS is set up (not army restrictive) really allows for this. I have my eye on the FW Fimir once their rules finally come out...
Yes, I'm enjoying that aspect of AoS already. I bought just one box of Fyreslayers to slot into my existing Empire & Dwarfs army (they'll be joining Siegfried and his Desperados ;-D)
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
We literally just got the names for the Tzeentch Arcanites this past week. Give it some time.
AoS has literally been out for months, how much time are we supposed to wait to learn our faction's name?
Which faction do you play?
Dark Elves for one, Vampires were the other. Plus Bretonnians now that I think about it. My point was more related to the "Tzeentch Arcanites" though. Great, we learned their name this week. And a Tzeentch player had to wait how long to learn even that (mostly irrelevant) information about their army?
This, exactly. Because Mortal Tzeentch has so far been effectively ignored* with all the Chaos love, and the Heroes are 'meh' at best. My Disc Lord has so far killed all of one Empire wizard, and it took him several turns to do even that. A unique regiment isn't too much to ask for, is it? Even Slaanesh has one of those...
*The Gaunt Summoner hardly counts. It's an awesome-looking model, but is really only useful if fielded in conjunction with a very specific piece of terrain and you have a bunch daemons lying around.
coldgaming wrote: Thematic mini-factions is basically exactly the way AoS has been going with all the splitting up of the old armies into sub-factions with a handful of units each. I love it.
It would just be nice if the factions got roughly equal love. *Tzeentch and Slaanesh take a long, hard look at Khorne and Nurgle*
We literally just got the names for the Tzeentch Arcanites this past week. Give it some time.
AoS has literally been out for months, how much time are we supposed to wait to learn our faction's name?
Which faction do you play?
Dark Elves for one, Vampires were the other. Plus Bretonnians now that I think about it. My point was more related to the "Tzeentch Arcanites" though. Great, we learned their name this week. And a Tzeentch player had to wait how long to learn even that (mostly irrelevant) information about their army?
Dark Elves, Vampires, and Bretonnians are still just that--Bretonnians, Dark Elves, and Vampires.
We haven't seen what they become beyond that or if they'll even retain the same general background. I'm, personally, thinking that we'll find out when we get the Shadowkin stuff that is mentioned in Fyreslayers.
Dark Elves, Vampires, and Bretonnians are still just that--Bretonnians, Dark Elves, and Vampires.
We haven't seen what they become beyond that or if they'll even retain the same general background. I'm, personally, thinking that we'll find out when we get the Shadowkin stuff that is mentioned in Fyreslayers.
And this far into the game not knowing any of that is a big problem
. I'm going to pick him up and see what it looks like in-person (and also the size of it compared to my chaos dwarfs). But seems promising 
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