Yet another vs debate but this time it is with Supreme commander. Lets say the UEF from the first Sup com has found a special portal in space that leads the UEF from their galaxy to the IOM in their universe/Galaxy. Who would win if these two forces got into a fight? The IOM from warhammer of the UEF from supreme commander in a all out war?
"The United Earth Federation (or UEF) is the faction representing the interests of a united, Earth-based government. The UEF developed from the ashes of the Earth Empire, and now seeks to reunite humanity and restore Earth's control over the galaxy. Their society and military tactics resemble modern society more than the Cybrans or Aeon do. Their acceptance of a variant of slavery and ideology of forced unity lends a darker side to the faction. UEF units are blueish and somewhat blocky in form. The three UEF experimental units are the Fatboy, a mobile factory/fire base, the Mavor, a long range artillery installation, and the Atlantis, a submersible aircraft carrier."
So they have Tau like tech and are on their way to conquer the galaxy. Have some special units like Mechs and Aircraft Carriers etc...
"The Imperium of Man is the galactic empire under which the majority of humanity is united. The founder and ruler of the Imperium is the god-like Emperor, the most powerful human psychic to date. Founding the Imperium ten thousand years ago, he continues, at least nominally, to lead it.
The Imperium is the largest and most powerful political entity in the galaxy, consisting of at least a million worlds, which are dispersed across most of the Milky Way galaxy. Consequently, an Imperial planet might be separated from its closest neighbour by hundreds or thousands of light years. As a stellar empire, the size of the Imperium can not be measured in terms of continuous territory, but only in the number of planetary systems in its control.
Several aliens and forces (the forces of Chaos, Tyranids, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau, Necrons) challenge the supremacy of the Imperium. From within, the Imperium is threatened more insidiously by rebellion, mutation, dangerous psykers, and subversive cults.
Without the protection of the Imperium, mankind would fall prey to the countless perils that threaten it."
and:
"Mankind has always excelled at the art of war, and the Emperor’s armies are spread across the galaxy. The threat or effects of war are never far away, no matter where you go in the Imperium. Mankind seeks to purge the stars of its enemies, and the bloody carnage it wreaks in doing so shows no sign of abating. The Imperium’s military is at once mighty, glorious and terrible.The military forces of the Imperium include:
Imperial Guard - The Imperial Guard is the backbone of the Imperium’s military might. Millions upon millions of well-trained men and women, organised into thousands of regiments, make up the Guard. With Lasgun and bayonet they march upon alien battlefields and garrison vital worlds. They form the Imperium’s first line of defence and they strike the first blow in many Crusades. Its Regiments are drawn in great tithes of manpower from the Imperium’s worlds and each Regiment has a unique character and fighting tradition, from the rigid discipline of the Armageddon Steel Legion to the stealthy brutality of the pale-skinned Stygians and the unflinching bravery of the Vostroyans. Vast conscript armies, elite special forces, massive tank columns and glorious sabre-wielding cavalry can all be found in the Imperial Guard, often fighting alongside one another on Emperor-forsaken worlds they have never heard of. Regiments do not remain on their homeworlds but are raised explicitly to be sent to fight and die light years away from home. And they do die, for the Imperial Guard bear the weight of the Imperium’s wars. It is said that the Emperor knows the name of every soldier that has fallen fighting in His wars—but if that is true, He is the only one who can comprehend just how many Imperial Guardsmen have died in the ten thousand years since the Emperor "ascended" to the Golden Throne. Those who survive the grinding horrors of a lifetime of war are frequently gifted a portion of the very land they fought to conquer as a reward. As with many things in the Imperium, this is a mixed blessing indeed. The Imperial Guard Regiments are raised from the local armies of the Imperium’s worlds as part of a planet’s tithe to the Imperium. These regiments are normally deployed according to the orders of the Adeptus Terra. However, when the High Lords of Terra declare a major military campaign (often referred to as a “Crusade”) they appoint a Warmaster chosen from among high-ranking Imperial Guard officers to command the campaign's regiments. One of the most famous Warmasters, Macharius, was given the title Lord Solar when he became the Imperial Commander of the entire Segmentum Solar. Macharius proved to be the greatest Imperial general since the Horus Heresy when conquered a thousand worlds on the Imperium’s Eastern Fringe and expanded the Imperium to the very edge of the Astronomican’s reach.
Adeptus Astartes - The Adeptus Astartes, better known as the Space Marines, are the elite warriors of the Imperium. They are few in number and regarded with almost mythical awe by most folk, for they are inheritors of traditions founded by the Emperor Himself. The Space Marines are divided into Chapters, each possessing 1,000 Space Marines along with its own support staff and spacefleet. It is said that there are around a thousand such Chapters in the Imperium. A Space Marine is recruited in adolescence from among the most violent cultures of the Imperium. His body is hugely enhanced with new genetically-engineered organs promoting muscle and bone growth to give him immense strength, size and resilience. His mind is similarly enhanced; hypno-doctrination and sleep-learning give him both a fervent belief in the Imperium and the knowledge of weapons and tactics to bring the Emperor’s wrath to the battlefield. Upon completing his augmentation and training (which not all novices survive), he is issued with his wargear, including a suit of Power Armour. This armour is one of the most powerful symbols of Imperial might, depicted in statuary and stained-glass windows in cathedrals all across the Imperium. Equipped with nerve-fibre bundles so it moves in sync with his body, a Space Marine’s armour not only grants him great strength and protection but is a work of art, resplendent in the heraldry of his Chapter. Each Chapter is independent from the Adeptus Terra. While most will eagerly answer the summons of an Imperial Warmaster or a plea for help from somewhere in the Imperium, some Chapters have their own agendas and cannot be relied upon entirely. All, however, serve the Emperor loyally with complete devotion. All Chapters have proud traditions and distinct characteristics that translate into the way they fight. The ferocious Space Wolves, for instance, are more fiercely independent from the Adeptus Terra than most other Chapters and fight on their own terms up close with Chainswords and Bolt Pistols. The Iron Hands, on the other hand, have close ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus and are the masters of siege warfare, arming their warriors with an array of devastating heavy weapons and tanks. Many Chapters are legends, and names such as the Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Imperial Fists are spoken of with reverent awe among Imperial citizens. A Space Marine Chapter has its own fleet of fast spacecraft and can react far more quickly to a threat than the Imperial Guard or Imperial Navy, making the Adeptus Astartes one of the only forces in the Imperium that can mount a rapid response to a crisis. The Space Marines are extremely few in number compared to the size of the Imperium and few citizens will ever see one in the flesh, but without them the Imperial military and the human race would slide ever faster towards destruction.
Grey Knights - The Space Marines of the Grey Knights Chapter are amongst the most highly specialised of the Adeptus Astartes, designed to specifically defend the Imperium against the threat of Chaos. The Grey Knights are permanently attached to the Ordo Malleus as its Chamber Militant and their leaders are rumoured to serve terms as members of the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition. No ordinary warriors, Grey Knights are chosen from amongst the most fearsome and savage feral cultures, each one an emergent psyker who has undergone arduous tests of faith, strength, endurance and courage that would break all but the strongest. Grey Knights fight in baroque, heavily ornamented suits of armour, carrying mighty sigil-encrusted swords and halberds. These warriors alone can stand before the might of a Greater Daemon with any hope of banishing it back to the Warp. The millennia the Grey Knights have spent in battle against the Forces of Chaos has furnished them with blasphemous knowledge, painstakingly pieced together by the Inquisitors of Ordo Malleus. Each warrior carries a copy of the sacred Liber Daemonica, the holy battle rites of the Chapter, in a Ceramite case on his breastplate, and it is this tome which symbolises a Grey Knight’s most potent weapon: his unshakable faith in the Divine Emperor of Mankind. For above all else, the Emperor protects...
Deathwatch - The Space Marines of the Deathwatch are mysterious figures who battle in black Power Armour, fighting with preternatural skill and dedication against the most terrible of alien creatures or xenos, as they are called in the Imperium. They usually appear without warning and vanish as quickly as they arrived, leaving no trace of themselves or of the creatures they have fought. These are the Imperium’s most highly trained xenos fighters, known simply as the Deathwatch. Forming the Chamber Militant of the Inquisition's Ordo Xenos, the Deathwatch uniquely draws its members from across the many different Space Marine Chapters, all of which have sworn sacred oaths to maintain specially trained xenos fighters and stand ready to deploy them at a moment’s notice when the Inquisition requests their aid. These specialised warriors are drawn together as and when needed by the Ordo to combat alien menaces whenever and wherever it rears its vile head. Rumour has it that Ordo Xenos maintains a number of secret fortresses at the fringes of the Imperium where the Deathwatch keeps a silent and constant vigil, ever watchful for the tell-tale signs of alien encroachment.
Collegia Titanica - The Collegia Titanica is the division of the Adeptus Mechanicus that includes the Legions composed of Titans, the colossal Imperial robotic war machines that are the most powerful engines of war in the Imperium of Man. The Collegia is also more rarely known as the Adeptus Titanicus (a contraction of "Adeptus Mechanicus Collegia Titanica").
Sisters of Battle (Orders Militant of the Adepta Sororitas) - The Adepta Sororitas, also known as the Sisters of Battle, are an all-female division of the Imperial Cult's ecclesiastical organisation known as the Ecclesiarchy or, more formally, as the Adeptus Ministorum. The Sisterhood's Orders Militant serve as the Ecclesiarchy's fighting arm, mercilessly rooting out corruption and heresy within humanity and every organisation of the Adeptus Terra. There is naturally some overlap between the duties of the Sisterhood and the Imperial Inquisition; for this reason, although the Inquisition and the Sisterhood remain entirely separate organisations, the Orders Militant of the Sisterhood also act as the Chamber Militant of the Inquisition's Ordo Hereticus. The Adepta Sororitas and the Sisters of Battle are commonly regarded as the same organisation, but the latter title technically refers only to the Orders Militant of the Adepta Sororitas, the best-known part of the Adepta. The Sisterhood serves as the Ministorum's only official military force because the Decree Passive laid down by the reformist Ecclesiarch Sebastian Thor held that in the wake of the Age of Apostasy of the 36th Millennium, the Ecclesiarchy cannot maintain any men under arms. This was supposed to limit the power of the Ecclesiarchy. However, the Ministorum were able to circumvent this decree by using the all-female force of the Sisterhood.
Imperial Navy - The Imperial Navy holds nearly all of the Imperium’s fighting vessels; local governments, Warmasters and others are forbidden to maintain their own fleets of warships. Their spacecraft include some of the most potent engines of destruction in the whole galaxy, including mighty battleships thousands of years old. The Navy’s ships range from small escorts with a crew of a few dozen to the immense Emperor-class Battleships which might have 20,000 souls or more on board. The Navy also includes fighter and bomber crews and aircraft that support the Imperial Guard on the ground. The Navy’s officer class is highly traditional and aristocratic in character. The Imperium’s noble families frequently boast naval officers among their number and naval dynasties dominate many battlefleets. Elitism is a virtue on most ships, where the officers’ lives are in stark contrast to those of the ratings and engine crews. With thousands of crew living and dying on ships that can spend decades without seeing port, a ship of the Imperial Navy becomes a city in space. Mutinies are not unknown and the Naval security battalions of Armsmen are a familiar sight on the decks of all naval ships, their black visors and shotguns constantly reminding the men that obedience is their duty to the Emperor. The Navy relies on many other organisations to function. Perhaps most importantly, these ancient and complex ships could not function without a complement of Tech-Priests who know how to appease the starships’ Machine Spirits and maintain technology that is too old and mysterious to be replicated. The Navy is also reliant on the Tech-Priests of Mars for refits, upgrades, repairs and new starships. It is usual for a warship to have Astropaths on board, for proper communication is essential if the Imperium is to be defended. Many captains are glad to have Ministorum clergy among their crew, ministering to the spiritual needs of the men and steeling their spirits with sermons. Commissars are appointed to the larger ships, watching over the moral fibre of the crew and providing a watch against mutiny and impiety. Then, of course, there is the Navigator of each vessel, whose family can occupy entire spires jutting out into space atop the ship.
Skitarii, the Legio Cybernetica and squads of Combat Servitors - These are three types of autonomous military ground forces deployed the Adeptus Mechanicus to protect their Forge Worlds and to assist Imperial military campaigns when necessary.
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers - The Inquisition maintains its own own corps of highly-trained special operations forces who are similar to the Imperial Guard's elite Storm Troopers that guard the secret installations of the Inquisition across the galaxy. The Inquisition maintains a number of fortresses throughout the galaxy, both secret and known to the inhabitants of the Imperium. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers are used by the Imperial Inquisition to guard their fortresses and the Black Ships as they make their purity runs across the Imperium's sectors, and they also augment an individual Inquisitor's personal forces with reliable and effective soldiers. Many Storm Troopers of particular skill are chosen to become an Inquisitor's Throne Agents. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers are selected from families with a record of unwavering faith in the Emperor and prior duty to the Inquisition, usually from the Schola Progenium. They are trained and equipped in a manner similar to Imperial Guard Storm Troopers, albeit lacking the rapid insertion and infiltration skills, as they are not expected to undertake such types of missions which are more often carried out for the Inquisition by the Officio Assassinorum."
UED is toasted...
P.S. Imeprium in it's setting in one of the most powerful galactic empires in sci-fi. Rarely anyone could go into full scale war aginst them. Only Galactic Empire from Star Wars could in my opinion.
Imperium would win. They just have such a vast empire, and almost infinite resource to draw on. Sheer weight of numbers an brutality would carry the day for them.
In reply to above, i don't the Galactic Empire could beat them either.
However, I can say one faction that could (bit unfair as they could beat damn near anything though).
Harrower wrote:Imperium would win. They just have such a vast empire, and almost infinite resource to draw on. Sheer weight of numbers an brutality would carry the day for them.
In reply to above, i don't the Galactic Empire could beat them either.
However, I can say one faction that could (bit unfair as they could beat damn near anything though).
From Iain M Banks novels.
A civilisation of truly mind boggling tech level.
Sentient ships that fight vast battles so fast they end in microseconds...that kind of technology.
Harrower wrote:Imperium would win. They just have such a vast empire, and almost infinite resource to draw on. Sheer weight of numbers an brutality would carry the day for them.
In reply to above, i don't the Galactic Empire could beat them either.
However, I can say one faction that could (bit unfair as they could beat damn near anything though).
The Culture.
What the hell is the Culture?
This guys here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture But I fail to see how these peaceful people could stand up to the Imperium's military might and psychic powers?
Has anyone that voted "Imperium will win"
actually know anything about Supreme Commander?
Or they chose Imperium because this is warhammer forum?
The lowest weakest grunt mass spammed units in Sup Com is like...
Size of a Nemsis Dread Knight
Armor plating like a Necron Monolith , 100% combat efficiency till the field collapses.
Dual Energy Machine Guns shooting equivalent of 1000 Plasma Cannon shots per minute.
Then it gets larger... and hits harder, where the titans are size of a base.
They expand in speed and efficiency like viruses, whole planet can be taken over within 10 hours PER commander.
Anything with matter can be converted, used, taken over ( its like Agent Smith that can take over Titans and Ships )
Their Jump gate allows them to teleport anywhere and obliterate any Matter that is within the teleport sphere.
If Imperium goes against ONE Commander, Imperium will win for sure no doubt.
But if Imperium goes against the whole faction like Core Vs Arms, Imperium stands zero chance.
LunaHound wrote:Has anyone that voted "Imperium will win"
actually know anything about Supreme Commander?
Or they chose Imperium because this is warhammer forum?
I played SC to death...still play it now actually!
I just can't seem them taking on the Imperium and winning. They don't have anywhere near the resources to take on an enemy of that size....don't forget the Imperium is typically fighting Wars on thousnads of planets at once, with millions of soldiers involved on most of them.
It's got over a MILLION worlds to draw from. thats just......huge.
Any fraction from supreme commander would just plain crush any fraction in warhammer. The smallest units in supreme command are titan size and they can all be built in field from the commander.
nomotog wrote:Any fraction from supreme commander would just plain crush any fraction in warhammer. The smallest units in supreme command are titan size and they can all be built in field from the commander.
Which would be fine...if the imperium didn't have their own titans, as well as armaments meant to take down titans.
nomotog wrote:Any fraction from supreme commander would just plain crush any fraction in warhammer. The smallest units in supreme command are titan size and they can all be built in field from the commander.
nomotog wrote:Any fraction from supreme commander would just plain crush any fraction in warhammer. The smallest units in supreme command are titan size and they can all be built in field from the commander.
Which would be fine...if the imperium didn't have their own titans, as well as armaments meant to take down titans.
The billions of soldiers tend to help.
How to beat up Warhammer Titans:
We can...
1) Jump Gate into the Titan's control center ( the effect is like a wraith cannon, it tears a hole in vicinity, but the hole depends on whats been Jumped in )
needless to say thats one dead Titan.
2) Jump something smaller in and land in a less vital area where it won't destroy the titan the moment it lands. Convert the titan over to be used.
3) Anti Titan artillery, 1 round per second, each shell is a nuke. Use it to blow up mountains, millions of IG with flashlights, or Titans.
4) Send in UEF / Core / Arms version of Titans. All ( in warhammer stats ) AV 14 with Monolith rules, and cannot be crippled/shaken/ weapon arms legs head etc etc destroyed.
nomotog wrote:Any fraction from supreme commander would just plain crush any fraction in warhammer. The smallest units in supreme command are titan size and they can all be built in field from the commander.
Which would be fine...if the imperium didn't have their own titans, as well as armaments meant to take down titans.
The billions of soldiers tend to help.
No there base unit is titan sized. They get bigger, much much bigger. They also are build in battle. They warp in a commander and they could build an army cable of taking all the IoM.
nomotog wrote:Any fraction from supreme commander would just plain crush any fraction in warhammer. The smallest units in supreme command are titan size and they can all be built in field from the commander.
Which would be fine...if the imperium didn't have their own titans, as well as armaments meant to take down titans.
The billions of soldiers tend to help.
How to take over Warhammer Titans:
We can...
1) Jump Gate into the Titan's control center ( the effect is like a wraith cannon, it tears a hole in vicinity, but the hole depends on whats been Jumped in )
needless to say thats one dead Titan.
2) Jump something smaller in and land in a less vital area where it won't destroy the titan the moment it lands. Convert the titan over to be used.
3) Anti Titan artillery, 1 round per second, each shell is a nuke. Use it to blow up mountains, millions of IG with flashlights, or Titans.
As a huge 40k and SupCom fan, I must say Supreme Commander with zero doubt in my mind.
In Supreme Commander, a lone Armored Command Unit on an uninhabited planet can raise a force greater in power than multiple titan legions in HOURS. Once an ACU has set up his resource harvesting capabilities, he can churn out an assault walking that is FOUR TIMES TALLER than an IMPERATOR TITAN in a matter of SECONDS.
The Dies Irae, most infamous of chaos titans that besieged the Imperial Palace, was 43 meters tall. The tallest record of a Titan's height is seen in the Imperator titan's Apocalypse datasheet is under 60 meters.
The largest experimental walker of the Seraphim faction is 166 meters tall.
A standard Siege Assault Bot is 23m-38m tall. These such bots are fielded in dozens to hundreds in standard engagements in Supreme Commander, and each bot can be fabricated in less than a second at full capacity.
A Warhound Titan, revered God-Machine of the Adeptus Mechanicus, priceless artifact that takes many years to fabricate even a single one of, whose loss is a devastating blow to its Legio, is 14 meters tall.
Supreme Commander ACUs have the ability to fabricate armies from nothing, given virtually any resource. They can turn energy into matter, and generate energy indefinitely with a variety of power generation sources.
An ACU on a completely barren world devoid of resources could still set up a base of any size given time.
An ACU is essentially a construct the size of the largest Imperial Titan, with an entire Standard Template Construct (STC) system built in by default.
The Imperium could never defeat any faction that possessed an STC. Supreme Commander's ACUs are STCs.
ph34r wrote:As a huge 40k and SupCom fan, I must say Supreme Commander with zero doubt in my mind.
In Supreme Commander, a lone Armored Command Unit on an uninhabited planet can raise a force greater in power than multiple titan legions in HOURS. Once an ACU has set up his resource harvesting capabilities, he can churn out an assault walking that is FOUR TIMES TALLER than an IMPERATOR TITAN in a matter of SECONDS.
The Dies Irae, most infamous of chaos titans that besieged the Imperial Palace, was 43 meters tall. The tallest record of a Titan's height is seen in the Imperator titan's Apocalypse datasheet is under 60 meters.
The largest experimental walker of the Seraphim faction is 166 meters tall.
A standard Siege Assault Bot is 23m-38m tall. These such bots are fielded in dozens to hundreds in standard engagements in Supreme Commander, and each bot can be fabricated in less than a second at full capacity.
A Warhound Titan, revered God-Machine of the Adeptus Mechanicus, priceless artifact that takes many years to fabricate even a single one of, whose loss is a devastating blow to its Legio, is 14 meters tall.
Supreme Commander ACUs have the ability to fabricate armies from nothing, given virtually any resource. They can turn energy into matter, and generate energy indefinitely with a variety of power generation sources.
An ACU on a completely barren world devoid of resources could still set up a base of any size given time.
An ACU is essentially a construct the size of the largest Imperial Titan, with an entire Standard Template Construct (STC) system built in by default.
The Imperium could never defeat any faction that possessed an STC. Supreme Commander's ACUs are STCs.
You are forgetting 2 most important things: Adeptus Astartes and Psykers.
ph34r wrote:As a huge 40k and SupCom fan, I must say Supreme Commander with zero doubt in my mind.
In Supreme Commander, a lone Armored Command Unit on an uninhabited planet can raise a force greater in power than multiple titan legions in HOURS. Once an ACU has set up his resource harvesting capabilities, he can churn out an assault walking that is FOUR TIMES TALLER than an IMPERATOR TITAN in a matter of SECONDS.
The Dies Irae, most infamous of chaos titans that besieged the Imperial Palace, was 43 meters tall. The tallest record of a Titan's height is seen in the Imperator titan's Apocalypse datasheet is under 60 meters.
The largest experimental walker of the Seraphim faction is 166 meters tall.
A standard Siege Assault Bot is 23m-38m tall. These such bots are fielded in dozens to hundreds in standard engagements in Supreme Commander, and each bot can be fabricated in less than a second at full capacity.
A Warhound Titan, revered God-Machine of the Adeptus Mechanicus, priceless artifact that takes many years to fabricate even a single one of, whose loss is a devastating blow to its Legio, is 14 meters tall.
Supreme Commander ACUs have the ability to fabricate armies from nothing, given virtually any resource. They can turn energy into matter, and generate energy indefinitely with a variety of power generation sources.
An ACU on a completely barren world devoid of resources could still set up a base of any size given time.
An ACU is essentially a construct the size of the largest Imperial Titan, with an entire Standard Template Construct (STC) system built in by default.
The Imperium could never defeat any faction that possessed an STC. Supreme Commander's ACUs are STCs.
ph34r wrote:As a huge 40k and SupCom fan, I must say Supreme Commander with zero doubt in my mind.
In Supreme Commander, a lone Armored Command Unit on an uninhabited planet can raise a force greater in power than multiple titan legions in HOURS. Once an ACU has set up his resource harvesting capabilities, he can churn out an assault walking that is FOUR TIMES TALLER than an IMPERATOR TITAN in a matter of SECONDS.
The Dies Irae, most infamous of chaos titans that besieged the Imperial Palace, was 43 meters tall. The tallest record of a Titan's height is seen in the Imperator titan's Apocalypse datasheet is under 60 meters.
The largest experimental walker of the Seraphim faction is 166 meters tall.
A standard Siege Assault Bot is 23m-38m tall. These such bots are fielded in dozens to hundreds in standard engagements in Supreme Commander, and each bot can be fabricated in less than a second at full capacity.
A Warhound Titan, revered God-Machine of the Adeptus Mechanicus, priceless artifact that takes many years to fabricate even a single one of, whose loss is a devastating blow to its Legio, is 14 meters tall.
Supreme Commander ACUs have the ability to fabricate armies from nothing, given virtually any resource. They can turn energy into matter, and generate energy indefinitely with a variety of power generation sources.
An ACU on a completely barren world devoid of resources could still set up a base of any size given time.
An ACU is essentially a construct the size of the largest Imperial Titan, with an entire Standard Template Construct (STC) system built in by default.
The Imperium could never defeat any faction that possessed an STC. Supreme Commander's ACUs are STCs.
You are forgetting 2 most important things: Adeptus Astartes and Psykers.
And demons, and Eldar, and Necrons and orks and Tau...the title said Wh40k, not just imperium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Only 14m? That's small for a titan.
14 meters is how tall a Warhound Titan is. The weakest, smallest assault bot of the Cybran faction of Supcom is 18 meters.
What is it armed with?
Size doesn't necessaily correspond to deadliness.
Ummm Commander gets assassinated Imperium has 4 to pick from. Even if you have "better" units the Imperium has so much more infantry/tanks/ships than you. Plus Psykers mind control anyone?
P.S. Yes I have played supreme commander It is a good game but there way too out numbered
Brother Coa wrote:You are forgetting 2 most important things: Adeptus Astartes and Psykers.
...... Psykers cant even get through the field every SupCom unit has.
Space Marines? what can they do?
The weakest UEF grunt gets pumped out 1 unit per second per factory, and they can make as many factory as they please
as long as the planet has Matters left.
As mentioned, the grunt is like a monolith that fires plasma cannons.
The weakest unit can take out 100 Astartes with no problem, and probably reclaim the dead marine's matters into building 20 more grunts.
FlammingGaunt wrote:Ummm Commander gets assassinated Imperium has 4 to pick from. Even if you have "better" units the Imperium has so much more infantry/tanks/ships than you. Plus Psykers mind control anyone?
P.S. Yes I have played supreme commander It is a good game but there way too out numbered
How do you "assassinate" a Warlord titan that has a full STC and can teleport between planets?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:What is it armed with?
Size doesn't necessaily correspond to deadliness.
Weapons capable of destroying other such behemoths of units. Rapid fire weaponry greater in power to titan mega-lasers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FlammingGaunt wrote:P.S. Yes I have played supreme commander It is a good game but there way too out numbered
On the contrary, within hours any Imperial force would find itself outnumbered.
In the time it takes the Imperium to wage war, the Supreme Commander could easily construct a SubCommander and teleport away. The SubCommander would be capable of producing units at a pace that would far outstrip any Imperial reinforcements, which are known to takes weeks to months to cross the void.
LunaHound wrote:
...... Psykers cant even get through the field every SupCom unit has.
They can blow up ships - with their mind.
Space Marines? what can they do?
The weakest UEF grunt gets pumped out 1 unit per second per factory, and they can make as many factory as they please
as long as the planet has Matters left.
As mentioned, the grunt is like a monolith that fires plasma cannons.
The weakest unit can take out 100 Astartes with no problem, and probably reclaim the dead marine's matters into building 20 more grunts.
So? Astartes just tear them apart in cc... and SC is not that much powerful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:
Psykers are literally the only edge that the Imperium has over an Armored Command Unit.
Mundane warfare-wise, the Imperium is usually considered the pinnacle of inefficiency, supported by the remnants of their grand old STC system.
The Cybran, UEF, Aeon, or Seraphim possess full STC capabilities.
I forgotten, this is also SCagainst 40k....
What has these SC faction have against C'Tan or Chaos Daemons?
And also against Ork and Tyranid numbers...? And we can always call upon the Chaos Gods themselves...
LunaHound wrote:
...... Psykers cant even get through the field every SupCom unit has.
They can blow up ships - with their mind.
Space Marines? what can they do?
The weakest UEF grunt gets pumped out 1 unit per second per factory, and they can make as many factory as they please
as long as the planet has Matters left.
As mentioned, the grunt is like a monolith that fires plasma cannons.
The weakest unit can take out 100 Astartes with no problem, and probably reclaim the dead marine's matters into building 20 more grunts.
So? Astartes just tear them apart in cc... and SC is not that much powerful.
I don't think your getting this. SMs are cool, but it's like fighting a army of titans summoned by magic wand. They would literally get stepped on.
Brother Coa wrote:So? Astartes just tear them apart in cc... and SC is not that much powerful.
Astartes tear apart basic grunt infantry that are larger and more powerful than WARHOUND TITANS in cc???
You are being extremely rude and ignorant right now by not reading anything that has been told to you.
Brother Coa wrote:I forgotten, this is also SCagainst 40k....
What has these SC faction have against C'Tan or Chaos Daemons?
And also against Ork and Tyranid numbers...? And we can always call upon the Chaos Gods themselves...
SupCom can deal with C'Tan, Daemons, Orks, and Tyranids in the same way that the Imperial Guard does, just replace every Imperial Guardsman with a unit larger than a Warhound Titan.
SupCom armies are literally that large. I don't think you quite understand the scale you are dealing with.
LunaHound wrote:
...... Psykers cant even get through the field every SupCom unit has.
They can blow up ships - with their mind.
Excuse me, the field is essentially in 40k equivalent THE WARP or black hole. nothing gets in, nothing gets out till the unit runs out of energy.
If the psykers are so competent also the Emperor, why don't they just blow up whole Chaos with their mind?
Space Marines? what can they do?
The weakest UEF grunt gets pumped out 1 unit per second per factory, and they can make as many factory as they please
as long as the planet has Matters left.
As mentioned, the grunt is like a monolith that fires plasma cannons.
The weakest unit can take out 100 Astartes with no problem, and probably reclaim the dead marine's matters into building 20 more grunts.
So? Astartes just tear them apart in cc... and SC is not that much powerful.
Are you serious? where are you getting your info from?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:
Psykers are literally the only edge that the Imperium has over an Armored Command Unit.
Mundane warfare-wise, the Imperium is usually considered the pinnacle of inefficiency, supported by the remnants of their grand old STC system.
The Cybran, UEF, Aeon, or Seraphim possess full STC capabilities.
I forgotten, this is also SCagainst 40k....
What has these SC faction have against C'Tan or Chaos Daemons?
Same way as Imperium deal with them. But with way tougher units, way stronger weapons.
And also against Ork and Tyranid numbers...? And we can always call upon the Chaos Gods themselves...
Just so you know SC isnt Starcraft. SC is so over powered that i have a feeling you are thinking about something different,
or you don't actually know SC
ph34r wrote:Astartes tear apart basic grunt infantry that are larger and more powerful than WARHOUND TITANS in cc???
You are being extremely rude and ignorant right now by not reading anything that has been told to you.
How Astartes work against Titans? They get inside, plant melta and get out. They destroyed hundreds of them like this.
And I played the game, nothing special....
ph34r wrote:
SupCom armies are literally that large. I don't think you quite understand the scale you are dealing with.
4 words: Chaos Gods and C'tan.
/thread.
If the Chaos Gods and C'tan can't beat the Imperium, how are they supposed to beat a faction stronger than the Golden Age of Technology Imperium?
/thread.
Fan armor protects against all.
Brother Coa wrote:
ph34r wrote:Astartes tear apart basic grunt infantry that are larger and more powerful than WARHOUND TITANS in cc???
You are being extremely rude and ignorant right now by not reading anything that has been told to you.
How Astartes work against Titans? They get inside, plant melta and get out. They destroyed hundreds of them like this.
And I played the game, nothing special....
You cant get into SC titans...... now im sure you not only not know anything about SC, you are been ignoring the info presented to you.
ph34r wrote:If the Chaos Gods and C'tan can't beat the Imperium, how are they supposed to beat a faction stronger than the Golden Age of Technology Imperium?
/thread.
Chaos Gods DON'T WANT to beat the Imperium...why would they beat the only source of power to them? It is the Imperium that feeds them with power, otherwise they would try to destroy it wih unlimited number of Daemon Legions ( and yes I am talking about thousands of Daemons bigger than Imperial Titan. Source Titan comic ).
And C'Tan are just sleeping - for now. They had already destroyed Old Ones that had technology that suprass even that of and SC faction.
ph34r wrote:Astartes tear apart basic grunt infantry that are larger and more powerful than WARHOUND TITANS in cc???
You are being extremely rude and ignorant right now by not reading anything that has been told to you.
How Astartes work against Titans? They get inside, plant melta and get out. They destroyed hundreds of them like this.
And I played the game, nothing special....
Get... inside?
There is no "inside" a SupCom unit. They are robots. They have no internal vulnerabilities or crawlspaces for Astartes to enter.
And even if they did, who cares? Astartes are killed by the dozens and hundreds by Titans in 40k. To think that fighting thousands of SupCom titan scale and larger units would be easy is just... just plain stupid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother Coa wrote:Chaos Gods DON'T WANT to beat the Imperium...why would they beat the only source of power to them? It is the Imperium that feeds them with power, otherwise they would try to destroy it wih unlimited number of Daemon Legions ( and yes I am talking about thousands of Daemons bigger than Imperial Titan. Source Titan comic ).
And C'Tan are just sleeping - for now. They had already destroyed Old Ones that had technology that suprass even that of and SC faction.
/thread.
You sound like a 12 year old arguing. Please, at least try to be logical, or don't post at all. You ignore every time you are proven wrong.
ph34r wrote:You sound like a 12 year old arguing. Please, at least try to be logical, or don't post at all. You ignore every time you are proven wrong.
And you are sounding like WoW nerd, there is no way SC can stand against Chaos Gods, or the C'Tan.
Necrons alone could defeat them, they can be anywhere in the galaxy in a blink of an eye, have insanely powerful units, have no numbers and can possess the machines to work for them.
If we are talking 40k as a whole then we can even count pre-Heresy Imperim with all 20 Legions of Astartes + Primarchs + the Emperor himself. Or the Eldar Empire or the Old Ones.
Unless SC have some kind of anti-magical defense ( witch they don't ) they can't do squat to 40k.
Brother Coa wrote:And you are sounding like WoW nerd,
I am literally playing Warhammer 40k: Space Marine as we speak on my 360. I have no idea what a WoW nerd has to do with this discussion, but I assure you I am not that?
Brother Coa wrote:there is no way SC can stand against Chaos Gods, or the C'Tan.
IRONY SENSOR MAXIMUM
Brother Coa wrote:Necrons alone could defeat them, they can be anywhere in the galaxy in a blink of an eye, have insanely powerful units, have no numbers and can possess the machines to work for them.
Necrons are a small scale enemy. They are a threat to the Astartes, to the Imperial Guard. They are not a threat to HUNDREDS OF TITANS THAT ARE PRODUCED AT A RATE OF DOZENS PER SECOND.
Brother Coa wrote:If we are talking 40k as a whole then we can even count pre-Heresy Imperim with all 20 Legions of Astartes + Primarchs + the Emperor himself. Or the Eldar Empire or the Old Ones.
Unless SC have some kind of anti-magical defense ( witch they don't ) they can't do squat to 40k.
Pre-Heresy Imperium is powerful compared to Post-Heresy Imperium. Not compared to SupCom.
In SupCom the Aeon have psychics, the Seraphim are extradimensional psychics, and the Cybran and UEF have control of the subspace-like warp dimension that is used for interplanetary travel. They have Necron level travel capabilities.
Supreme Commander Ships vs Warhammer 40k ships? So your saying every faction of the 40k universe vs every faction in Supreme commander. 40k wins because of their conquest of the gaxaly and pyskers, and massive ships and weapons that destroy entire planets.
Plus 40k has airpower and space power. Supreme Commanders forces are dumb and don't block out the sun. There aren't that many of them compared to the Imperium Fleets. The Imperium would just keep blasting exterimnatus's at them if they start losing and start destroying every single one of them.
Don't even get me started on the Tyranids and necrons they win automatically.
Tyranids Biomass = 500000000000000000000+ more of them in that one battle that the Supreme Commander people have just losted.
Orks gain new tasty technology.
Eldar die.
Tau try and ally them and steal their technology.
Chaos Gods infuse disloyalty through the ranks of the supreme commanders, chaos splittering of their forces percedes.
Space Marine chapters deployed along side imperial guard forces in crusades along with hundreds of other groups.
40k wins by the sheer amount and power in some of the races.
Yeah, whilst I could imagine from the information supplied that SC could kick the imperium's ass, I find it unlikely that they'll be able to fight that effectively against Demons and C'tan. I mean, we're talking about creatures that could alter the fabric of reality here.
And like I said, I played Supremme Comamnder. Nothing special...the story was short and not that interesting.
So because.... you like Warhammer more, that makes Imperium auto win correct?
Tell me, am i wrong to make this statement ( and leave I LOVE WARHAMMER!!!! out of this )
The weakest unit of SC, are they not the equivalent of a small Titan that have guns that shoots like plasma cannon at the speed of a machine gun?
Are they not held together in essence ( 1 single atom ) due to their field, and is only vulnerable when the fiend runs out of energy to hold together?
And that they get pumped out of factories in 1 second per factory and the number can be sustained aslong as the planet has Matters left? Samething cannot be said about SM and GENE SEED.
Is it not true that a SCU can take over a whole planet within 10 hours?
Asherian Command wrote:
Supreme Commander Ships vs Warhammer 40k ships? So your saying every faction of the 40k universe vs every faction in Supreme commander. 40k wins because of their conquest of the gaxaly and pyskers, and massive ships and weapons that destroy entire planets.
Plus 40k has airpower and space power. Supreme Commanders forces are dumb and don't block out the sun. There aren't that many of them compared to the Imperium Fleets. The Imperium would just keep blasting exterimnatus's at them if they start losing and start destroying every single one of them.
Don't even get me started on the Tyranids and necrons they win automatically.
Tyranids Biomass = 500000000000000000000+ more of them in that one battle that the Supreme Commander people have just losted.
Orks gain new tasty technology.
Eldar die.
Tau try and ally them and steal their technology.
Chaos Gods infuse disloyalty through the ranks of the supreme commanders, chaos splittering of their forces percedes.
Space Marine chapters deployed along side imperial guard forces in crusades along with hundreds of other groups.
40k wins by the sheer amount and power in some of the races.
Finally someone with reason...thank you very much...
Asherian Command wrote:
Supreme Commander Ships vs Warhammer 40k ships? So your saying every faction of the 40k universe vs every faction in Supreme commander. 40k wins because of their conquest of the gaxaly and pyskers, and massive ships and weapons that destroy entire planets.
Plus 40k has airpower and space power. Supreme Commanders forces are dumb and don't block out the sun. There aren't that many of them compared to the Imperium Fleets. The Imperium would just keep blasting exterimnatus's at them if they start losing and start destroying every single one of them.
Don't even get me started on the Tyranids and necrons they win automatically.
Tyranids Biomass = 500000000000000000000+ more of them in that one battle that the Supreme Commander people have just losted.
Orks gain new tasty technology.
Eldar die.
Tau try and ally them and steal their technology.
Chaos Gods infuse disloyalty through the ranks of the supreme commanders, chaos splittering of their forces percedes.
Space Marine chapters deployed along side imperial guard forces in crusades along with hundreds of other groups.
40k wins by the sheer amount and power in some of the races.
Finally someone with reason...thank you very much...
Annnnd it's been stated already that SC already have all that.
But yeah, it will be one hell of a fight.
ph34r wrote:You sound like a 12 year old arguing. Please, at least try to be logical, or don't post at all. You ignore every time you are proven wrong.
And you are sounding like WoW nerd, there is no way SC can stand against Chaos Gods, or the C'Tan.
Necrons alone could defeat them, they can be anywhere in the galaxy in a blink of an eye, have insanely powerful units, have no numbers and can possess the machines to work for them.
If we are talking 40k as a whole then we can even count pre-Heresy Imperim with all 20 Legions of Astartes + Primarchs + the Emperor himself. Or the Eldar Empire or the Old Ones.
Unless SC have some kind of anti-magical defense ( witch they don't ) they can't do squat to 40k.
for the last time:
/thread.
The IoM on it's best day would be crushed.
Ctan might have a chance. Traveling anywhere in the blink of an eye is a start. Now they need several titan sized weapons that they can churn out of factory by the hundreds and even larger weapons they can churn out by the dozen.
And like I said, I played Supremme Comamnder. Nothing special...the story was short and not that interesting.
So because.... you like Warhammer more, that makes Imperium auto win correct?
Tell me, am i wrong to make this statement ( and leave I LOVE WARHAMMER!!!! out of this )
The weakest unit of SC, are they not the equivalent of a small Titan that have guns that shoots like plasma cannon at the speed of a machine gun?
Are they not held together in essence ( 1 single atom ) due to their field, and is only vulnerable when the fiend runs out of energy to hold together?
And that they get pumped out of factories in 1 second per factory and the number can be sustained aslong as the planet has Matters left? Samething cannot be said about SM and GENE SEED.
Is it not true that a SCU can take over a whole planet within 10 hours?
Can confirm that?
Against the Imperium - maybe ( it's already fighting on 1.000.000 fronts ). Against entire 40k - hell no.
And 40k is more epic then SC. No?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nomotog wrote:
Ctan might have a chance.
They eat STARS for lauch for the Emperor's sake...
ph34r wrote:You sound like a 12 year old arguing. Please, at least try to be logical, or don't post at all. You ignore every time you are proven wrong.
And you are sounding like WoW nerd, there is no way SC can stand against Chaos Gods, or the C'Tan.
Necrons alone could defeat them, they can be anywhere in the galaxy in a blink of an eye, have insanely powerful units, have no numbers and can possess the machines to work for them.
If we are talking 40k as a whole then we can even count pre-Heresy Imperim with all 20 Legions of Astartes + Primarchs + the Emperor himself. Or the Eldar Empire or the Old Ones.
Unless SC have some kind of anti-magical defense ( witch they don't ) they can't do squat to 40k.
for the last time:
/thread.
The IoM on it's best day would be crushed.
Ctan might have a chance. Traveling anywhere in the blink of an eye is a start. Now they need several titan sized weapons that they can churn out of factory by the hundreds and even larger weapons they can churn out by the dozen.
ph34r wrote:As a huge 40k and SupCom fan, I must say Supreme Commander with zero doubt in my mind.
In Supreme Commander, a lone Armored Command Unit on an uninhabited planet can raise a force greater in power than multiple titan legions in HOURS. Once an ACU has set up his resource harvesting capabilities, he can churn out an assault walking that is FOUR TIMES TALLER than an IMPERATOR TITAN in a matter of SECONDS.
The Dies Irae, most infamous of chaos titans that besieged the Imperial Palace, was 43 meters tall. The tallest record of a Titan's height is seen in the Imperator titan's Apocalypse datasheet is under 60 meters.
The largest experimental walker of the Seraphim faction is 166 meters tall.
A standard Siege Assault Bot is 23m-38m tall. These such bots are fielded in dozens to hundreds in standard engagements in Supreme Commander, and each bot can be fabricated in less than a second at full capacity.
A Warhound Titan, revered God-Machine of the Adeptus Mechanicus, priceless artifact that takes many years to fabricate even a single one of, whose loss is a devastating blow to its Legio, is 14 meters tall.
Supreme Commander ACUs have the ability to fabricate armies from nothing, given virtually any resource. They can turn energy into matter, and generate energy indefinitely with a variety of power generation sources.
An ACU on a completely barren world devoid of resources could still set up a base of any size given time.
An ACU is essentially a construct the size of the largest Imperial Titan, with an entire Standard Template Construct (STC) system built in by default.
The Imperium could never defeat any faction that possessed an STC. Supreme Commander's ACUs are STCs.
Warhounds are 14m AT REST (it says so in the IA book) and they rest on their haunches so 20m at LEAST is closer to the mark.
Either way, not important. Mortal weapons cannot hurt Greater Daemons. By definition, a single GD could destroy everything in SC.
Also, those alpha+ psykers who rewrite the laws of physics are just so damn annoying sometimes, aren't they?
ALSO, once the IoM gets their hands on ONE, it's done.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
But they don't exist anymore.
Yes they do. Read Gaunts Ghosts. They are in eye of terror. We said on the imperiums best day. Deep within the imperial vaults is a copy of the Iron men.
humanity beat them.
im2randomghgh wrote:Warhounds are 14m AT REST (it says so in the IA book) and they rest on their haunches so 20m at LEAST is closer to the mark.
Either way, not important. Mortal weapons cannot hurt Greater Daemons. By definition, a single GD could destroy everything in SC.
Also, those alpha+ psykers who rewrite the laws of physics are just so damn annoying sometimes, aren't they?
ALSO, once the IoM gets their hands on ONE, it's done.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
False.
The Imperial Guard regularly defeats daemons and Greater Daemons by weight of fire, orbital bombardment, artillery barrages, et all.
Alpha+ psykers have never been controlled by the Imperium for purposes of warfare, they are exclusively described as renegades that sow destruction through the galaxy at a whim.
im2randomghgh wrote:Warhounds are 14m AT REST (it says so in the IA book) and they rest on their haunches so 20m at LEAST is closer to the mark.
Either way, not important. Mortal weapons cannot hurt Greater Daemons. By definition, a single GD could destroy everything in SC.
Also, those alpha+ psykers who rewrite the laws of physics are just so damn annoying sometimes, aren't they?
ALSO, once the IoM gets their hands on ONE, it's done.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
False.
The Imperial Guard regularly defeats daemons and Greater Daemons by weight of fire, orbital bombardment, artillery barrages, et all.
Alpha+ psykers have never been controlled by the Imperium for purposes of warfare, they are exclusively described as renegades that sow destruction through the galaxy at a whim.
but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.
And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
ph34r wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Dude. Necrodermis and Pylons. Done.
I like how you guys are ignoring all the SC techs.
Sup Com don't use space ships because they dont need them. They need Matter ( a planet ) and Jump Gates.
A planet itself generates more matter, and is larger than a space ship hence whats the point of a space ship? Or right because unlike a planet it can move.
But why do they need to move when they can teleport?
Oh right because in Warhammer there is a teleport range and you can mishap and materialize inside another object.
Oops which is a none issue in subcom because they dont care about range, and they create holes in reality where they materialize.
ph34r wrote: The Imperial Guard regularly defeats daemons and Greater Daemons by weight of fire, orbital bombardment, artillery barrages, et all.
What? No they don't...Greater Daemons seize the world until Space Marines or Grey Knights kill them. On table that is possible, in fluff - hell no.
Alpha+ psykers have never been controlled by the Imperium for purposes of warfare, they are exclusively described as renegades that sow destruction through the galaxy at a whim.
They are kept in reserve by The Assignment ( part of Inquisition that measure the level of psyker ) on Terra, for "just in case something goes bad " scenario.
The only thing that could compete with warhammer 40k universe is Goku from dragon ball Z
I second this. Also, I just had an image of Piccolo vs. Orks. Awwwwww yeah.
But then they might mistake him for Gork or Mork and make him their god. And he'd be da best fighta eva!
Mork. Kuz Mork is kunnin' but brutal. If he taught Orks how to use Special Beam Cannon.....Game Over, Imperium.
Correction Game over Universe.
Plus Supreme commander doesn't have gods.... 40k does. your talking every single race. gigillons of units vs billions. who wins? 40k because the sheer size is massive.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Dude. Necrodermis and Pylons. Done.
Pylon, meet Mavor.
Mavor, meet Doomsday Monolith.
Who cares? It's still in 40k scale. If that thing was stronger than an Imperator Titan by a factor of say, 10, then SupCom would have cause for concern.
A Mavor is 100 meters square on edge, 40 meters tall undeployed. It has a range of nearly 100 kilometers. It's blast diameter is 300 meters.
im2randomghgh wrote:Warhounds are 14m AT REST (it says so in the IA book) and they rest on their haunches so 20m at LEAST is closer to the mark.
Either way, not important. Mortal weapons cannot hurt Greater Daemons. By definition, a single GD could destroy everything in SC.
Also, those alpha+ psykers who rewrite the laws of physics are just so damn annoying sometimes, aren't they?
ALSO, once the IoM gets their hands on ONE, it's done.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
False.
The Imperial Guard regularly defeats daemons and Greater Daemons by weight of fire, orbital bombardment, artillery barrages, et all.
Alpha+ psykers have never been controlled by the Imperium for purposes of warfare, they are exclusively described as renegades that sow destruction through the galaxy at a whim.
but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.
And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
ph34r wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Dude. Necrodermis and Pylons. Done.
Asherian Command wrote:but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.
And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.
Yes, they can. Or are you saying that in every engagement in which the IG fight the Daemons, the IG lose unless they just so happen to have the Inquisition with them at that time?
Name one Imperial Alpha+ Psyker and I will believe you.
LunaHound wrote:I like how you guys are ignoring all the SC techs.
And I love how you are ignoring the OP40k universe laws.
For example: Stars are very big, right? C'Tan see a Star, eat if for launch, then go to another system eat that star and etc etc...
And what fun is when Daemon Prince is born, it is said that population in a range of several light years all go mad.
Also, it is funny to see warp storm appearing and all your "advanced" equipment start to fail and what joy when Chaos Daemons start appearing in millions and start wrecking havoc all around...
Then we have the Orks for who you don't have enough bullets to kill, and then Tyranids whose Hive Fleets are bigger then planets and consume all life on a planet...
And Necrons are top of the Ice Berg, can seize control of enemy machines, turning them against you ( good buy your AI controlled machines ) and have weapons that can break atoms in half + they get up after being shot down...
Asherian Command wrote:40k does. your talking every single race. gigillons of units vs billions. who wins? 40k because the sheer size is massive.
Ah............ i see, the mind set between your understanding of SC and ours is different.
K here is the issue with the size you guys keep on mentioning.
You need to start thinking on a different lvl as SC, they expand like a virus.
Thats right, imagine every human begins is a universe, and all the cells are planets or units.
SC units spreads like a contagion, means size, distance is irrelevant.
im2randomghgh wrote:Warhounds are 14m AT REST (it says so in the IA book) and they rest on their haunches so 20m at LEAST is closer to the mark.
Either way, not important. Mortal weapons cannot hurt Greater Daemons. By definition, a single GD could destroy everything in SC.
Also, those alpha+ psykers who rewrite the laws of physics are just so damn annoying sometimes, aren't they?
ALSO, once the IoM gets their hands on ONE, it's done.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
False.
The Imperial Guard regularly defeats daemons and Greater Daemons by weight of fire, orbital bombardment, artillery barrages, et all.
Alpha+ psykers have never been controlled by the Imperium for purposes of warfare, they are exclusively described as renegades that sow destruction through the galaxy at a whim.
but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.
And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
ph34r wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Dude. Necrodermis and Pylons. Done.
Yes, they can. Or are you saying that in every engagement in which the IG fight the Daemons, the IG lose unless they just so happen to have the Inquisition with them at that time?
Name one Imperial Alpha+ Psyker and I will believe you.
Asherian Command wrote:Plus Supreme commander doesn't have gods....
40k does. your talking every single race. gigillons of units vs billions. who wins? 40k because the sheer size is massive.
SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.
40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.
Asherian Command wrote:but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.
And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.
Yes, they can. Or are you saying that in every engagement in which the IG fight the Daemons, the IG lose unless they just so happen to have the Inquisition with them at that time?
Name one Imperial Alpha+ Psyker and I will believe you.
Daemons can lose without dying. What happens is they don't have enough strength to remain in the 40k reality, and get sucked back to the warp.
ph34r wrote:Who cares? It's still in 40k scale. If that thing was stronger than an Imperator Titan by a factor of say, 10, then SupCom would have cause for concern.
Sadly, it is stronger by factor of 20 ( see The Fall of Damnos )... And we care because we count all.
Is dead. And was wounded by a great Ork Warboss in the great crusades.
I would imagine the Emperor would have difficulty if every Ork in that Warboss's horde was replaced with a Reaver Titan.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother Coa wrote:
ph34r wrote:Who cares? It's still in 40k scale. If that thing was stronger than an Imperator Titan by a factor of say, 10, then SupCom would have cause for concern.
Sadly, it is stronger by factor of 20 ( see The Fall of Damnos )... And we care because we count all.
Stronger than an Imperator by a factor of 20? That would make it hundreds of times stronger than a normal monolith. I am calling massive bull-gak. Cite a quote or get out.
Is dead. And was wounded by a great Ork Warboss in the great crusades.
I would imagine the Emperor would have difficulty if every Ork in that Warboss's horde was replaced with a Reaver Titan.
You guys said all times of the imperium of man. We win by the fact that we have this guy and all the chaos gods. Not really the emperor blinked and half of a battle barge was emptied.
Asherian Command wrote:Plus Supreme commander doesn't have gods....
40k does. your talking every single race. gigillons of units vs billions. who wins? 40k because the sheer size is massive.
SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.
40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.
Every odd other than:
Spoiler for language of poop
Is dead. And was wounded by a great Ork Warboss in the great crusades.
I would imagine the Emperor would have difficulty if every Ork in that Warboss's horde was replaced with a Reaver Titan.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother Coa wrote:
ph34r wrote:Who cares? It's still in 40k scale. If that thing was stronger than an Imperator Titan by a factor of say, 10, then SupCom would have cause for concern.
Sadly, it is stronger by factor of 20 ( see The Fall of Damnos )... And we care because we count all.
Stronger than an Imperator by a factor of 20? That would make it hundreds of times stronger than a normal monolith. I am calling massive bull-gak. Cite a quote or get out.
hes right it destroied an entire imperial guard force and almost the entire 2nd company and the entire planet.
KilroyKiljoy wrote:Daemons can lose without dying. What happens is they don't have enough strength to remain in the 40k reality, and get sucked back to the warp.
So would a faction that possesses a SupCom's military capacity care if they kill or merely "kill" a daemon? I think not. As long as you can reproduce the effect, it does not matter if you blast them to bits back to the warp of banish them for 1001 years. Gone is gone.
Don't forget that SC has supper weapons. Like the first game where they have that weapon that can destroy any planet in the universe or convert everyone in the universe to peace and love.
ph34r wrote:Yes, they can. Or are you saying that in every engagement in which the IG fight the Daemons, the IG lose unless they just so happen to have the Inquisition with them at that time?
No they can't, it's always Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle and Space Marine that break them in the end. Guard always get slaughtered.
Name one Imperial Alpha+ Psyker and I will believe you.
They are kept secured by the Inquisition, so we have very little info about them.
im2randomghgh wrote:Warhounds are 14m AT REST (it says so in the IA book) and they rest on their haunches so 20m at LEAST is closer to the mark.
Either way, not important. Mortal weapons cannot hurt Greater Daemons. By definition, a single GD could destroy everything in SC.
Also, those alpha+ psykers who rewrite the laws of physics are just so damn annoying sometimes, aren't they?
ALSO, once the IoM gets their hands on ONE, it's done.
ALSO, in wh40k, there were the Men of Iron, who could practice Mass Production of 10m tall war machines as quickly as ACUs can, and the men of iron were as populous as humans.
False.
The Imperial Guard regularly defeats daemons and Greater Daemons by weight of fire, orbital bombardment, artillery barrages, et all.
Alpha+ psykers have never been controlled by the Imperium for purposes of warfare, they are exclusively described as renegades that sow destruction through the galaxy at a whim.
but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.
And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
ph34r wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Dude. Necrodermis and Pylons. Done.
Asherian Command wrote:hes right it destroied an entire imperial guard force and almost the entire 2nd company and the entire planet.
So "almost a company", that is worth a small handful of Warhound titans, right? So 10 of the most basic SupCom unit should be a fair match for that. Those units would take all of one single second to construct.
nomotog wrote:Don't forget that SC has supper weapons. Like the first game where they have that weapon that can destroy any planet in the universe or convert everyone in the universe to peace and love.
Only 1 was every built, and that 1 was destroyed. 40k still have several things that can destroy a planet. Did I mention that they have things that shift reality and eat Stars?
KilroyKiljoy wrote:Daemons can lose without dying. What happens is they don't have enough strength to remain in the 40k reality, and get sucked back to the warp.
So would a faction that possesses a SupCom's military capacity care if they kill or merely "kill" a daemon? I think not. As long as you can reproduce the effect, it does not matter if you blast them to bits back to the warp of banish them for 1001 years. Gone is gone.
They're not gone, just in the warp. If it's all of 40K, they're fighting the warp, too. Which means, if they want to win, they'll have to enter the warp and fight on their terms, or wait and get surprise gakked by the daemons. So, save for Grey Knights there is no real way to kill a daemon. They never cease to exist, they just move.
Brother Coa wrote:No they can't, it's always Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle and Space Marine that break them in the end. Guard always get slaughtered.
Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.
Brother Coa wrote:They are kept secured by the Inquisition, so we have very little info about them.
By that you mean they are KILLED by the inquisition. Then again, cite one source and I will believe that the Imperium keeps them when they could routinely save TRILLIONS of lives in combat, like say in the 13th black crusade or the fall of Medusa V or any Tyranid Hivefleet invasion.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KilroyKiljoy wrote:
ph34r wrote:
KilroyKiljoy wrote:Daemons can lose without dying. What happens is they don't have enough strength to remain in the 40k reality, and get sucked back to the warp.
So would a faction that possesses a SupCom's military capacity care if they kill or merely "kill" a daemon? I think not. As long as you can reproduce the effect, it does not matter if you blast them to bits back to the warp of banish them for 1001 years. Gone is gone.
They're not gone, just in the warp. If it's all of 40K, they're fighting the warp, too. Which means, if they want to win, they'll have to enter the warp and fight on their terms, or wait and get surprise gakked by the daemons. So, save for Grey Knights there is no real way to kill a daemon. They never cease to exist, they just move.
You are 100% right that you cannot destroy a daemon's essence with mundane means, but SupCom's power level is so high that they do not care how long they delay the return of the daemon, for they can defeat them every time.
Additionally SupCom's universe is not nearly as bleak and despair-filled as 40k's, so at any area where a SupCom faction is in control, daemons would be nearly impossible to summon.
ph34r wrote:SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.
40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.
They aren't more powerful then Chaos Gods that's for sure. They can create warp storms at wish and they are gaining power from emotions of every living being in the galaxy ( even Tau ).
nomotog wrote:Don't forget that SC has supper weapons. Like the first game where they have that weapon that can destroy any planet in the universe or convert everyone in the universe to peace and love.
Only 1 was every built, and that 1 was destroyed. 40k still have several things that can destroy a planet. Did I mention that they have things that shift reality and eat Stars?
SupCom factions do not need planets, as they can teleport from planet to planet on a whim. They can construct entire bases in a matter of hours. The Imperium's response time ranges from weeks to years. The Imperium would never even know if an Armored Command Unit was on their planet unless they bumped into it.
If we take supcom to the logical extreme then entire planets could be turned into warmachines since mass and energy can be exchanged in that setting.
The initial commander builds one factory, which first builds two engineers. The same engineers continue to build factories which all build two engineers before they start production of war material...
After an initial period to secure infrastructure ( mainly energy-mass converters and powerplants ) an exponential growth would be possible which theoreticaly climaxes in the planet's entire consumption.
I can so no way how a war against such production capabilities could be won by the Imperium of Man or all other scif factions of a comparable "powerlevel".
ph34r wrote:Stronger than an Imperator by a factor of 20? That would make it hundreds of times stronger than a normal monolith. I am calling massive bull-gak. Cite a quote or get out.
As I said: Read Fall of Damnos, don't have a book here but it is descibed as "the most powerful Necron weapon ever seen by this day".
ph34r wrote:SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.
40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.
They aren't more powerful then Chaos Gods that's for sure. They can create warp storms at wish and they are gaining power from emotions of every living being in the galaxy ( even Tau ).
So what? The Chaos Gods are not cable of reaching into the material world without intense emotion, souls, and sacrifice. They are all powerful, in the warp. They can do basically anything, if the corresponding amount of negative emotion and sacrifice is given. If you deny those resources, they are essentially powerless.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother Coa wrote:As I said: Read Fall of Damnos, don't have a book here but it is descibed as "the most powerful Necron weapon ever seen by this day".
You realize that is meaningless, right? As said in my previous post, most powerful Necron weapon is still an insignificant speck compared to an Armored Command Unit's army, capable of being dealt with within minutes of construction of forces.
ph34r wrote:Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.
And you read Bloodtide Incident, Gheistos Cataclysm, Damnation Crusade and others...
Grater Daemons are not something IG can take without help.
KingDeath wrote:If we take supcom to the logical extreme then entire planets could be turned into warmachines since mass and energy can be exchanged in that setting.
The initial commander builds one factory, which first builds two engineers. The same engineers continue to build factories which all build two engineers before they start production of war material...
After an initial period to secure infrastructure ( mainly energy-mass converters and powerplants ) an exponential growth would be possible which theoreticaly climaxes in the planet's entire consumption.
I can so no way how a war against such production capabilities could be won by the Imperium of Man or all other scif factions of a comparable "powerlevel".
Thank you for that logic. Indeed, SupCom is on another power level, just as Golden Age of Man is on another (though still lower) power level.
nomotog wrote:Don't forget that SC has supper weapons. Like the first game where they have that weapon that can destroy any planet in the universe or convert everyone in the universe to peace and love.
Only 1 was every built, and that 1 was destroyed. 40k still have several things that can destroy a planet. Did I mention that they have things that shift reality and eat Stars?
It wasn't just one planet it was every planet. Big difference.
ph34r wrote:You realize that is meaningless, right? As said in my previous post, most powerful Necron weapon is still an insignificant speck compared to an Armored Command Unit's army, capable of being dealt with within minutes of construction of forces.
So you are saying that C'Tan would be defeated by ACU army?
Ok, I am done tailing to you troll-fan....
ph34r wrote:Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.
And you read Bloodtide Incident, Gheistos Cataclysm, Damnation Crusade and others...
Grater Daemons are not something IG can take without help.
Even if you take as a given that in EXTREME INCIDENTS daemons cannot be stopped by mortal means, a Supreme Commander would not care, as he could just self-destruct all his units, and teleport to another planet.
A Supreme Commander could control his domain well enough to 100% prevent any daemon summoning from occurring, as he could deny the necessary sacrifices and emotions.
KingDeath wrote:If we take supcom to the logical extreme then entire planets could be turned into warmachines since mass and energy can be exchanged in that setting.
The initial commander builds one factory, which first builds two engineers. The same engineers continue to build factories which all build two engineers before they start production of war material...
After an initial period to secure infrastructure ( mainly energy-mass converters and powerplants ) an exponential growth would be possible which theoreticaly climaxes in the planet's entire consumption.
I can so no way how a war against such production capabilities could be won by the Imperium of Man or all other scif factions of a comparable "powerlevel".
Thank you for that logic. Indeed, SupCom is on another power level, just as Golden Age of Man is on another (though still lower) power level.
I think most people are missing out on that part *enlarged.
ph34r wrote:You realize that is meaningless, right? As said in my previous post, most powerful Necron weapon is still an insignificant speck compared to an Armored Command Unit's army, capable of being dealt with within minutes of construction of forces.
So you are saying that C'Tan would be defeated by ACU army?
Ok, I am done tailing to you troll-fan....
Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.
A C'tan could never win.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Wait...the doomsday monolith is 20x the strength of a titan?
I'd hate to see the abattoir in action.
No, Brother Coa is just a trollish fanboy who is making up numbers to try to exceed the numbers that I can cite from the supcom unit list information.
ph34r wrote:Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.
A C'tan could never win.
"The C'tan (Eldar Yngir) are said to be the oldest beings in existence. It is said that they were created at the very beginning of the universe, spawned from swirling gases and enormous amounts of energy, and as such are etheric creatures by nature. ( Were is that necrodermis here? ) In their natural form they are vast beings and spread themselves over the surface of a star, sucking at its energy to feed itself. After a time, they learned to use diaphanous wings to travel to other stars to continue their consumption. The matter around them was so insignificant that it didn't even register on their voracious appetite1."
You are full of telling that some random faction can defeat creatures that are not bond by laws of psysics and that eat Stars to survive. I am done here...
Asherian Command wrote:but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.
And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.
Yes, they can. Or are you saying that in every engagement in which the IG fight the Daemons, the IG lose unless they just so happen to have the Inquisition with them at that time?
Name one Imperial Alpha+ Psyker and I will believe you.
1. That's exactly what we're saying. Do you think that it matters how many pieces of meat you put in from of An'ggrath?
2. Malcador. Magnus. The Emperor. Tigurius. Njal Stormcaller. Need I continue?
But lemme give ya a little quote:
"In the rarest of all cases, the twenty-four point scale of the Assignment does not adequately characterize a being of indescribable ability. Such individuals, for all intents and purposes, pass beyond the scale entirely. These subjects are known as Alpha-Plus psykers.
Uncontained, Alpha-Plus psykers represent an immediate and catastrophic threat to the Imperium. In theory, there is nothing that a trained Alpha-Plus psyker cannot accomplish through force of will; from snapping a Titan in half to summoning a legion of Greater Daemons. Representing such a great danger, the Inquisition usually executes Alpha-Plus psykers on sight unless the possibility for capture is nearly assured. "
^They try to capture them when possible.
Also, greater daemons, who are immune to regular weapons, can be summoned in legions by Alpha+ psykers.
ph34r wrote:No, Brother Coa is just a trollish fanboy who is making up numbers to try to exceed the numbers that I can cite from the supcom unit list information.
No, Brother Coa read books while you are telling me some 4 faction universe with only technology can defeat creatures so powerful they can make galaxy disappear.
And I cited several sources you said they are not important. You are obviously trololololololo fanboy here.
Thank God reasonable people are voting for 40k - got ya
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:
1. That's exactly what we're saying. Do you think that it matters how many pieces of meat you put in from of An'ggrath?
2. Malcador. Magnus. The Emperor. Tigurius. Njal Stormcaller. Need I continue?
Please leave him, he don't really read this or understand. He will just say "but SC super-powerful tech is so awesome....". He just said they could defeat C'Tan ( the old C'Tan, the one that enslaved the Necrons ) and that should tell you all.
You are full of telling that some random faction can defeat creatures that are not bond by laws of psysics and that eat Stars to survive. I am done here...
Explain why the star gods would want to be transferred into the Necrodermis body
ph34r wrote:Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.
A C'tan could never win.
"The C'tan (Eldar Yngir) are said to be the oldest beings in existence. It is said that they were created at the very beginning of the universe, spawned from swirling gases and enormous amounts of energy, and as such are etheric creatures by nature. ( Were is that necrodermis here? ) In their natural form they are vast beings and spread themselves over the surface of a star, sucking at its energy to feed itself. After a time, they learned to use diaphanous wings to travel to other stars to continue their consumption. The matter around them was so insignificant that it didn't even register on their voracious appetite1."
ph34r wrote:Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.
It's like you really don't read my posts at all!
I mean, I already knew you didn't, but at least try to be subtle!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asherian Command wrote:Plus all these guys are citing their sources. I could get most of you for not using MLA formatting.
But i won't complain.
For example warhammer 40k tyranids. (Gamesworkshop, codex tyranids.)
ph34r wrote:Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.
A C'tan could never win.
"The C'tan (Eldar Yngir) are said to be the oldest beings in existence. It is said that they were created at the very beginning of the universe, spawned from swirling gases and enormous amounts of energy, and as such are etheric creatures by nature. ( Were is that necrodermis here? ) In their natural form they are vast beings and spread themselves over the surface of a star, sucking at its energy to feed itself. After a time, they learned to use diaphanous wings to travel to other stars to continue their consumption. The matter around them was so insignificant that it didn't even register on their voracious appetite1."
ph34r wrote:Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.
It's like you really don't read my posts at all!
I mean, I already knew you didn't, but at least try to be subtle!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asherian Command wrote:Plus all these guys are citing their sources. I could get most of you for not using MLA formatting.
But i won't complain.
For example warhammer 40k tyranids. (Gamesworkshop, codex tyranids.)
Brother Coa wrote:No, Brother Coa read books while you are telling me some 4 faction universe with only technology can defeat creatures so powerful they can make galaxy disappear.
And I cited several sources you said they are not important. You are obviously trololololololo fanboy here.
Thank God reasonable people are voting for 40k - got ya
The fact that you think that voting determines truth only undermines your position -- not strengthens it.
Yes, some 4 faction universe with technology superior to any race in 40k, AND PSYCHICS.
In the Total Annihilation universe, a universe of identical technology and power level to Supereme Commander, they destroy their Galaxy.
ph34r wrote:Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.
And you read Bloodtide Incident, Gheistos Cataclysm, Damnation Crusade and others...
Grater Daemons are not something IG can take without help.
Even if you take as a given that in EXTREME INCIDENTS daemons cannot be stopped by mortal means, a Supreme Commander would not care, as he could just self-destruct all his units, and teleport to another planet.
A Supreme Commander could control his domain well enough to 100% prevent any daemon summoning from occurring, as he could deny the necessary sacrifices and emotions.
He would do a better job of preventing sacrifices and emotions than the IoM? May I inquire as to your logic?
LunaHound wrote:
Brothercoa was the only person in here that is actively ignoring sc info.
Everything else was in a normal discussion.
I was not ignoring I was just saying that technology <<<<<<<<<<<< Warp.
And you 2 ignore that in all discussion. Unless SC have something that can kill Chaos Gods wh40k wins automatically.
im2randomghgh wrote:1. That's exactly what we're saying. Do you think that it matters how many pieces of meat you put in from of An'ggrath?
Again, even in an unwinnable situation, a Supreme Commander can at zero permanent cost self destruct every single unit he has, and teleport to a different planet.
It will take him LESS THAN A DAY to fully reconstruct his forces regardless of where he teleports to.
On the other hand, summoning An'ggrath is an extremely difficult affair that can only occur with massive sacrifice, in a galaxy full of despair, when the favors of the dark god are waxing.
im2randomghgh wrote:Also, greater daemons, who are immune to regular weapons, can be summoned in legions by Alpha+ psykers.
I do not dispute that an Alpha+ psyker would be extremely difficult for the SupCom universe to defeat if he uses his full powers. However, if the Imperium can defeat one, then there is hope for the SupCom universe to defeat one.
Luckily for SupCom, Alpha+ psykers are nearly all insane and uncontrollable, and a Supreme Commander could play the keep-away game with them.
You are full of telling that some random faction can defeat creatures that are not bond by laws of psysics and that eat Stars to survive. I am done here...
Explain why the star gods would want to be transferred into the Necrodermis body
The matter of organic beings is tastier than stars. No, actually.
Well look what showed up. Must be that time of month again
I have only played SupCom 2 so I will be using that as a baseline.
Correct me if I am wrong, I may be thinging of another Sci-fi, but Supreme Commander has a fatal flaw in its military function in that all the factions have abandoned Space Combat. They use the portals to travel from planet to planet.
As such, 40k has a huge advantage in having Orbital Bombardment capabilities and the ability to retreat to inaccessable planets if they are losing at a single point of conflict.
The UEF only has a, debatable, advantage in technology. They have fast production capabilities, but the IoM has practically unlimited manpower and resources. This would give the UEF an initial advantage, but once the Imperial warmachine starts grinding you are in big trouble.
Titans vs King Kryptors:
Judging by the scale compared to the skyscrapers in SupCom, I estimate Kryptors to be on par with Reaver Titans in size, but they are clearly not as agile and their weapons don't have as great a range nor do they sport as great a variety of weapons, having only the arm mounted energy cannons. Reavers have a variety of weapons to be used in differing tactical situations.
The Imperium has other titans too. Warhounds are smaller then Kryptors, but are much faster. Warhounds could take advantage of the terrain and the fact that they too have access to a varity of weapon loadouts.
Warlords would provide long range support that is only comperable to Nuclear Missiles and Artillery Defenses. with the advantage of mobility.
Ground Forces:
The Imperium uses Infantry, SupCom does not. this means the Imperium has an entire threat projection dimension that SupCom doesn't have an equivilant for. UEF forces might think Infantry to be no threat and would simply disregard to focus on Titans and Armor Divisions. this would give Infantry almost free reign to attack UEF forces.
As all SupCom units are some form of Vehicle, all SupCom munitions will be armor piercing in nature. Missiles will not have anti-infantry payloads. Artillery would be the only thing that would provide any sort of ability to deal with massed infantry.
im2randomghgh wrote:He would do a better job of preventing sacrifices and emotions than the IoM? May I inquire as to your logic?
Because the SupCom universe is MASSIVELY more powerful, citizens can be 100% watched and controlled, the possibility of a chaos cult gaining a foothold is nearly nonexistent.
After much researching i have decided neither universe wins because neither them have any similarities to physics.
thread is over. If we are to go by stratgety games alone then dawn of war 1 means i can produce roughly 500000 space marine squads in 1 second.
The fact is Supreme commander isn't that big of a fan base. and the fact is that it has so many holes in it and it needs to better deal with the plot. For all we know the canon things we have discussed might be changed later on.
the big problem i see is that it is theoritically impossible to form matter into metals, as we have metals, metalliods and nonmetals. you can't fashion a nonmetal into a metallic structure. it is impossible. 40k has not gone that far.
The fact Remains Supreme Commander is more a Fantasy game than a sci-fi game. And I will discount it for being too fantasy. I know this post will be ripped apart because of Space Elves, Orks, and chaos daemons. But creating new matter and forging nonmetals into metals. Is insanely fantasy and that is alchemy from the midevil era.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:And you 2 ignore that in all discussion. Unless SC have something that can kill Chaos Gods wh40k wins automatically.
Sure. Cybrans/Aeon/Seraphim take over physical galaxy, emotion is abolished, Chaos Gods cease to exist.
Check Mate.
you can't get rid of emotion mate. Emotion is always there. that would never happen it is the brain and is in the soul and cannot be controlled or destoried. it can be quelled but thats about it.
Grey Templar wrote:Well look what showed up. Must be that time of month again
I have only played SupCom 2 so I will be using that as a baseline.
Supreme Commander 2, while an approximation of SupCom 1, is in fact at a MUCH lower power level and scale than Supreme Commander.
In the SupCom universe they do in fact make use of space combat, as you can see space ships taking off in the Forged Alliance opening cinematic, though ground combat is preferred for the reason that a ground force has access to unlimited resources, and can in fact defeat a space force as they do not have access to said resources.
When you are an ACU, it is in fact preferable to have control of the ground to control of space, as space is not necessary for travel and the ground is necessary for unit production and resource collection.
Grey Templar wrote:Well look what showed up. Must be that time of month again
I have only played SupCom 2 so I will be using that as a baseline.
Supreme Commander 2, while an approximation of SupCom 1, is in fact at a MUCH lower power level and scale than Supreme Commander.
In the SupCom universe they do in fact make use of space combat, as you can see space ships taking off in the Forged Alliance opening cinematic, though ground combat is preferred for the reason that a ground force has access to unlimited resources, and can in fact defeat a space force as they do not have access to said resources.
When you are an ACU, it is in fact preferable to have control of the ground to control of space, as space is not necessary for travel and the ground is necessary for unit production and resource collection.
So then it is retconned you can't use the old supreme commander stuff. you need to use the newest version which means 40k wins. Its like allowing us all to use conversion beamers that are close ranged weaponry on all space marines.
im2randomghgh wrote:1. That's exactly what we're saying. Do you think that it matters how many pieces of meat you put in from of An'ggrath?
Again, even in an unwinnable situation, a Supreme Commander can at zero permanent cost self destruct every single unit he has, and teleport to a different planet.
It will take him LESS THAN A DAY to fully reconstruct his forces regardless of where he teleports to.
On the other hand, summoning An'ggrath is an extremely difficult affair that can only occur with massive sacrifice, in a galaxy full of despair, when the favors of the dark god are waxing.
im2randomghgh wrote:Also, greater daemons, who are immune to regular weapons, can be summoned in legions by Alpha+ psykers.
I do not dispute that an Alpha+ psyker would be extremely difficult for the SupCom universe to defeat if he uses his full powers. However, if the Imperium can defeat one, then there is hope for the SupCom universe to defeat one.
Luckily for SupCom, Alpha+ psykers are nearly all insane and uncontrollable, and a Supreme Commander could play the keep-away game with them.
1. If he teleports away, then he was forced to withdraw, and so lost. Plus, An'ggrath isn't just going to sit there going "hurr durr", he's gonna get up in that commanders face before he knows what's going on.
2. Doesn't matter that they're insane. They are part of wh40k. Also, you can't flee from them. First of all, they can unravel your soul at the speed of thought. Second of all, the laws of physics are a suggestion to them, and they can just teleport after you. They could, if they wanted, go back in time and kill your mother before you were born. Or just kill whoever was inventing this amazing technology.
Asherian Command wrote:you can't get rid of emotion mate. Emotion is always there. that would never happen it is the brain and is in the soul and cannot be controlled or destoried. it can be quelled but thats about it.
Actually you can. One faction of the Cybran want to make everyone into emotionless machines of perfect logic. The Seraphim want to kill all humans. The Aeon want to make everyone brainwashed and super-indoctrinated into the worship of the Seraphim.
Even the UEF, who does not oppose freedom or emotion, is closer to a police state where everything is maintained in a pseudo-utopia, where the intense toiling and negative emotions generated by the untold trillions of suffers in 40k required to power the chaos gods would not exist.
Asherian Command wrote:you can't get rid of emotion mate. Emotion is always there. that would never happen it is the brain and is in the soul and cannot be controlled or destoried. it can be quelled but thats about it.
Actually you can. One faction of the Cybran want to make everyone into emotionless machines of perfect logic. The Seraphim want to kill all humans. The Aeon want to make everyone brainwashed and super-indoctrinated into the worship of the Seraphim.
Even the UEF, who does not oppose freedom or emotion, is closer to a police state where everything is maintained in a pseudo-utopia, where the intense toiling and negative emotions generated by the untold trillions of suffers in 40k required to power the chaos gods would not exist.
Then why do they commit war? War is an emotion. . If anything they wouldn't interfer. That is human emotion still. Perfect logic would dictate no war and just retreat and seeing solutions to everything peacefully which is more logical. Risk resources and lives, or risk nothing and just get longer but better stuff.
Sorry mate but you contradict yourself and the fact psychology disagrees with you completely. Not attacking you, just your opinon btw.
im2randomghgh wrote:1. If he teleports away, then he was forced to withdraw, and so lost. Plus, An'ggrath isn't just going to sit there going "hurr durr", he's gonna get up in that commanders face before he knows what's going on.
2. Doesn't matter that they're insane. They are part of wh40k. Also, you can't flee from them. First of all, they can unravel your soul at the speed of thought. Second of all, the laws of physics are a suggestion to them, and they can just teleport after you. They could, if they wanted, go back in time and kill your mother before you were born. Or just kill whoever was inventing this amazing technology.
An'ggrath cannot physically "get at" a Supreme Commander any more than he can physically walk to Terra and bust past the Custodes.
Considering that An'ggrath has to walk and that Supreme Commanders can teleport or fly, I very much assure you that An'ggrat would "get up in" a world of pain.
You can't use totally uncontrollable Alpha+ psykers as a credit against a Supreme Commander as the Alpha+ psyker would never have the motivation or reason to pursue an organized agenda.
Asherian Command wrote:After much researching i have decided neither universe wins because neither them have any similarities to physics.
thread is over. If we are to go by stratgety games alone then dawn of war 1 means i can produce roughly 500000 space marine squads in 1 second.
The fact is Supreme commander isn't that big of a fan base. and the fact is that it has so many holes in it and it needs to better deal with the plot. For all we know the canon things we have discussed might be changed later on.
the big problem i see is that it is theoritically impossible to form matter into metals, as we have metals, metalliods and nonmetals. you can't fashion a nonmetal into a metallic structure. it is impossible. 40k has not gone that far.
The fact Remains Supreme Commander is more a Fantasy game than a sci-fi game. And I will discount it for being too fantasy. I know this post will be ripped apart because of Space Elves, Orks, and chaos daemons. But creating new matter and forging nonmetals into metals. Is insanely fantasy and that is alchemy from the midevil era.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:And you 2 ignore that in all discussion. Unless SC have something that can kill Chaos Gods wh40k wins automatically.
Sure. Cybrans/Aeon/Seraphim take over physical galaxy, emotion is abolished, Chaos Gods cease to exist.
Check Mate.
you can't get rid of emotion mate. Emotion is always there. that would never happen it is the brain and is in the soul and cannot be controlled or destoried. it can be quelled but thats about it.
Actually you could convert a non-metal into a metalloid, if you simply switched the position/ratio of the electrons/protons/neutrons.
Asherian Command wrote:After much researching i have decided neither universe wins because neither them have any similarities to physics.
thread is over. If we are to go by stratgety games alone then dawn of war 1 means i can produce roughly 500000 space marine squads in 1 second.
The fact is Supreme commander isn't that big of a fan base. and the fact is that it has so many holes in it and it needs to better deal with the plot. For all we know the canon things we have discussed might be changed later on.
the big problem i see is that it is theoritically impossible to form matter into metals, as we have metals, metalliods and nonmetals. you can't fashion a nonmetal into a metallic structure. it is impossible. 40k has not gone that far.
The fact Remains Supreme Commander is more a Fantasy game than a sci-fi game. And I will discount it for being too fantasy. I know this post will be ripped apart because of Space Elves, Orks, and chaos daemons. But creating new matter and forging nonmetals into metals. Is insanely fantasy and that is alchemy from the midevil era.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:And you 2 ignore that in all discussion. Unless SC have something that can kill Chaos Gods wh40k wins automatically.
Sure. Cybrans/Aeon/Seraphim take over physical galaxy, emotion is abolished, Chaos Gods cease to exist.
Check Mate.
you can't get rid of emotion mate. Emotion is always there. that would never happen it is the brain and is in the soul and cannot be controlled or destoried. it can be quelled but thats about it.
Actually you could convert a non-metal into a metalloid, if you simply switched the position/ratio of the electrons/protons/neutrons.
You can't add protons or neutrons. you can only add electrons.
Asherian Command wrote:you can't get rid of emotion mate. Emotion is always there. that would never happen it is the brain and is in the soul and cannot be controlled or destoried. it can be quelled but thats about it.
Actually you can. One faction of the Cybran want to make everyone into emotionless machines of perfect logic. The Seraphim want to kill all humans. The Aeon want to make everyone brainwashed and super-indoctrinated into the worship of the Seraphim.
Even the UEF, who does not oppose freedom or emotion, is closer to a police state where everything is maintained in a pseudo-utopia, where the intense toiling and negative emotions generated by the untold trillions of suffers in 40k required to power the chaos gods would not exist.
Then why do they commit war? War is an emotion. . If anything they wouldn't interfer. That is human emotion still. Perfect logic would dictate no war and just retreat and seeing solutions to everything peacefully which is more logical. Risk resources and lives, or risk nothing and just get longer but better stuff. Sorry mate but you contradict yourself and the fact psychology disagrees with you completely. Not attacking you, just your opinon btw.
Uhh you are 100% Wrong. Sorry?
War is not an emotion. At all.
ADDITIONALLY, in Supreme Commander, wars are not waged for emotional reasons. Your entire point is based on a falsehood. Would you like to reconsider? Because as is, you are objectively wrong, and I am not saying that your opinion is wrong, but you are objectively incorrect.
If we are to go by stratgety games alone then dawn of war 1 means i can produce roughly 500000 space marine squads in 1 second.
What...? SC produces fast because they build exponentially directly from manipulating matter. Its nothing to do with game play.
The fact is Supreme commander isn't that big of a fan base. and the fact is that it has so many holes in it and it needs to better deal with the plot. For all we know the canon things we have discussed might be changed later on.
the big problem i see is that it is theoritically impossible to form matter into metals, as we have metals, metalliods and nonmetals. you can't fashion a nonmetal into a metallic structure. it is impossible. 40k has not gone that far.
When you get the technology to manipulate matter at your whim, i doubt its that far fetched.
You ride comfortably in 40k's warp magic, yet you dismiss physics and matter? Seems like you are purposely nitpicking one side out.
The fact Remains Supreme Commander is more a Fantasy game than a sci-fi game. And I will discount it for being too fantasy. I know this post will be ripped apart because of Space Elves, Orks, and chaos daemons. But creating new matter and forging nonmetals into metals. Is insanely fantasy and that is alchemy from the midevil era.
Samething was said when people explained Gravity, Earth wasnt flat, we are made out of cells, and there is a universe out there.
Yet now we can manipulate DNA and clone things. Far fetched and fantasy? NOPE~!
Asherian Command wrote:you can't get rid of emotion mate. Emotion is always there. that would never happen it is the brain and is in the soul and cannot be controlled or destoried. it can be quelled but thats about it.
Actually you can. One faction of the Cybran want to make everyone into emotionless machines of perfect logic. The Seraphim want to kill all humans. The Aeon want to make everyone brainwashed and super-indoctrinated into the worship of the Seraphim.
Even the UEF, who does not oppose freedom or emotion, is closer to a police state where everything is maintained in a pseudo-utopia, where the intense toiling and negative emotions generated by the untold trillions of suffers in 40k required to power the chaos gods would not exist.
Then why do they commit war? War is an emotion. . If anything they wouldn't interfer. That is human emotion still. Perfect logic would dictate no war and just retreat and seeing solutions to everything peacefully which is more logical. Risk resources and lives, or risk nothing and just get longer but better stuff.
Sorry mate but you contradict yourself and the fact psychology disagrees with you completely. Not attacking you, just your opinon btw.
Uhh you are 100% Wrong. Sorry?
War is not an emotion. In Supreme Commander, wars are not waged for emotional reasons. Your entire point is based on a falsehood. Would you like to reconsider? Because as is, you are objectively wrong, and I am not saying that your opinion is wrong, but you are objectively incorrect.
then why would they commit war if there was no emotion. Emotion is always part of war. Your talking about something that is inhuman. Emotions are always in humans and other races that are humanlike. Emotions cannot be erased they are always there, you cant get rid of it. Wars are always started by Emotional reasons. President is assassinated = emotion.
I get it, this is actually "our super imagive friends" against "their super imagine friends"...
I can say only this to you ph34r and LunaHound, can your Supremme Comamnder beat this:
Luna has it 100%. If you think matter manipulation isn't going to be a thing, you've got another thing coming.
Supreme Commander is a relatively hard sci-fi environment. 40k is space fantasy, and even still its power level is lower. Why? Because 40k is designed to be heroic/romantic, focusing on the individuals and armies of people, not what would be logical to do to win wars.
Brother Coa wrote:I get it, this is actually "our super imagive friends" against "their super imagine friends"...
I can say only this to you ph34r and LunaHound, can your Supremme Comamnder beat this:
At first, i was like yes, its sort of like that.
Then i realize it was posted by you, someone that did exactly what you described yourself.
Brother Coa wrote:I get it, this is actually "our super imagive friends" against "their super imagine friends"...
For yourself, yes! That is exactly what you are treating this discussion as, given that you are not using logic or reasoning or facts but rather your own love for 40k over Supreme Commander! I am so happy that you finally get it that I could hug you.
Do remember though that not all of us treat this as such. Some of us are using *facts* and *logic* in our arguments
In case you didn't get that, the someone is me and Luna, not you.
Brother Coa wrote:I can say only this to you ph34r and LunaHound, can your Supremme Comamnder beat this:
No. Obviously. Because I am not such a blind fanboy that I would say SupCom could beat a thing made of galaxies.
Unless a Supreme Commander developed the Galactic Implosion Device that the CORE create in Total Annihilation, which is in fact capable of destroying galaxies. Not that that anime has any scientific explanation for it, so it is not capable of being discussed even with "in universe" logic, because that logic is never detailed like 40k's warp's logic is.
ph34r wrote:For yourself, yes! That is exactly what you are treating this discussion as, given that you are not using logic or reasoning or facts but rather your own love for 40k over Supreme Commander! I am so happy that you finally get it that I could hug you.
Do remember though that not all of us treat this as such. Some of us are using *facts* and *logic* in our arguments
You are right about one thing - I don't like that game, it was boring... And I used facts witch you bring down by " but SC is better, see...."...
No. Obviously. Because I am not such a blind fanboy that I would say SupCom could beat a thing made of galaxies.
Unless a Supreme Commander developed the Galactic Implosion Device that the CORE create in Total Annihilation, which is in fact capable of destroying galaxies. Not that that anime has any scientific explanation for it, so it is not capable of being discussed even with "in universe" logic, because that logic is never detailed like 40k's warp's logic is.
Like here...you said no Then you said: "but"..... So you think that SC can even beat that kind of gadget? AND you tel that I am overreacting?
There is no way Sc races can hope to defeat that kind of monster, I said that 40k wins only be numbers and God like Creatures witch SC don't have. And you said that they would win regardless because - they have tech.
WHo si a blind fanboy now? ( thank God that 20 or more people are not fanboys here )
Brother Coa wrote:I can say only this to you ph34r and LunaHound, can your Supremme Comamnder beat this:
No. Obviously. Because I am not such a blind fanboy that I would say SupCom could beat a thing made of galaxies.
Unless a Supreme Commander developed the Galactic Implosion Device that the CORE create in Total Annihilation, which is in fact capable of destroying galaxies. Not that that anime has any scientific explanation for it, so it is not capable of being discussed even with "in universe" logic, because that logic is never detailed like 40k's warp's logic is.
Everyone knows Spiral Power is just Waaagh! Power. Believe in the Ghazghkull that believes in you
ph34r wrote:Luna has it 100%. If you think matter manipulation isn't going to be a thing, you've got another thing coming.
Supreme Commander is a relatively hard sci-fi environment. 40k is space fantasy, and even still its power level is lower. Why? Because 40k is designed to be heroic/romantic, focusing on the individuals and armies of people, not what would be logical to do to win wars.
Once again, we are speaking about nigh infinite production capabilities merely trough the ability to quickly convert energy into all kinds of matter and vice versa.
The exponential growth in production that this single technological advantage enables, renders all the initial advantages of pure manpower that the Imperium of Man possesses temporary at best.
The warp, daemons, necrons, psykers all are very nice and powerful but i cannot imagine them having any chance at all against entire converted starsystems ( and ultimately more )worth of warmachines.
With nearly unlimited energy ( and therefore mass in the sc verse ) comming from a system's star even the consumption of every single planet within a solar system wouldn't mean
the cessation of production.
Once such a warmachine grinds into gear it is virtualy unbeatable, at least within the context of the discussed universes.
Of course this is all highly hypothetical since the SC games never truly explore the extreme possibilities that their technologies offer, but it think might be worth a consideration.
Just remember that this is ALL of 40K, not just the Imperium.
If we were to make the universes collide, and we only talk about the Imperium, then SC would have to take on ALL 1000 SM chapters, ALL Titan Legions, plus the billions upon billions of Guardsmen. Not to mention all the fleets of ships.
Brother Coa wrote:Like here...you said no Then you said: "but"..... So you think that SC can even beat that kind of gadget? AND you tel that I am overreacting?
There is no way Sc races can hope to defeat that kind of monster, I said that 40k wins only be numbers and God like Creatures witch SC don't have. And you said that they would win regardless because - they have tech.
It would be a huge stretch to make enough Galactic Implosion Devices and maneuver them to all of the galaxies to implode them all.
Then again it is impossible to say as Gurran Laggan does not have any sort of scientific explanation or consistency so it is quite impossible to discuss.
Brother Coa wrote:WHo si a blind fanboy now? ( thank God that 20 or more people are not fanboys here )
The irony here is that the 20 voters are the fanboys, you being the fanboy king.
Please, explain to me how I am the fanboy.
Let's check the facts:
Me:
Played 40k and read this forum since 2005, has a half dozen armies, has read many of the books between then and now and a huge amount of lexicanum
Literally playing the xbox 360 game Space Marine right now Has knowledge of both 40k and SupCom, so is able to compare them without bias
You:
Played 40k for less time
Posted on this forum for less time
Zero knowledge of SupCom
By all means not only should I be the "40k fanboy" here, but I am also the more logical to have an unbiased opinion on the two universes.
Brother Coa wrote:Still, robot the size of 1.000.000 Milky Ways...
Try to beat that...
You see, i like TTGL, but im not going to be blind over it.
To answer you, its situational. Because the robot the size of milkyway can in theory annihilate 40k and SC in a flash,
40k can argue the emperor can use psychic power and kill the pilot.
and SC can argue anyone can jump gate onto the pilot and killing him instantly.
The fact in the story is still, size aside the core is still a human.
ph34r wrote:Luna has it 100%. If you think matter manipulation isn't going to be a thing, you've got another thing coming.
Supreme Commander is a relatively hard sci-fi environment. 40k is space fantasy, and even still its power level is lower. Why? Because 40k is designed to be heroic/romantic, focusing on the individuals and armies of people, not what would be logical to do to win wars.
Once again, we are speaking about nigh infinite production capabilities merely trough the ability to quickly convert energy into all kinds of matter and vice versa.
The exponential growth in production that this single technological advantage enables, renders all the initial advantages of pure manpower that the Imperium of Man possesses temporary at best.
The warp, daemons, necrons, psykers all are very nice and powerful but i cannot imagine them having any chance at all against entire converted starsystems ( and ultimately more )worth of warmachines.
With nearly unlimited energy ( and therefore mass in the sc verse ) comming from a system's star even the consumption of every single planet within a solar system wouldn't mean
the cessation of production.
Once such a warmachine grinds into gear it is virtualy unbeatable, at least within the context of the discussed universes.
Of course this is all highly hypothetical since the SC games never truly explore the extreme possibilities that their technologies offer, but it think might be worth a consideration.
Except that daemon just come back, over and over. There is only so much matter, but there is infinite warp space.
im2randomghgh wrote:Except that daemon just come back, over and over. There is only so much matter, but there is infinite warp space.
The Necrons have proven that it is possible to destroy the Warp using material means (Cadian Pylons).
Even if the Daemons can come back forever, which they can't without summoning, which said summoning would be impossible in a Supreme Commander society, a SupCom's army can defeat them every time, making them a mere nuisance.
ph34r wrote:
Played 40k for less time
Posted on this forum for less time
Zero knowledge of SupCom
One last thing:
I play Warhammer from 2004
I discovered this forum only 2 years ago, didn't have need for it.
I had knowledge ( I said like 20 times that game was bad ) but I am realistic as I said technology is <<<<<<<<< magic. ( witch you can't understand )
But is't ok, continue posting fan stuff, I will look something else.
Brother Coa wrote:I am realistic as I said technology is <<<<<<<<< magic. ( witch you can't understand )
But is't ok, continue posting fan stuff, I will look something else.
See i said this back in page 3 in the spoiler.
And i was right all along :3
LunaHound wrote:
ph34r wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:Plus Supreme commander doesn't have gods....
40k does. your talking every single race. gigillons of units vs billions. who wins? 40k because the sheer size is massive.
SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.
40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.
Every odd other than:
Spoiler for language of poop
I play Warhammer from 2004
I discovered this forum only 2 years ago, didn't have need for it.
I had knowledge ( I said like 20 times that game was bad ) but I am realistic as I said technology is <<<<<<<<< magic. ( witch you can't understand )
But is't ok, continue posting fan stuff, I will look something else.
Alright, so we have about the same amount of experience with 40k, my having about 4 years more forum knowledge which would logically make me more informed overall.
Even if we were the same 40k-wise, I have knowledge of SupCom and you don't, making my the most logical and less opinionated on this matter.
I have time and time again explained how a faction with the numbers of the IG, the power of each soldier being a titan, the ability to jump around the galaxy infinitely, with no morale, no supply trains, no training time, no space fleet needed, any resource being usable, any unit being self-repairable, and experimental units four times larger than the largest warmachine in the Imperium, Chaos, or Xenos, would be able to beat down the 40k universe. But this logic, and the specific reasons why magic is not all powerful (see: eldar not controlling the universe in 40k) is not good enough for you.
Because you cannot do logic. And you cannot argue logically. And you don't know anything about SupCom, so you assume that 40k is stronger.
Brother Coa wrote:I am realistic as I said technology is <<<<<<<<< magic. ( witch you can't understand )
But is't ok, continue posting fan stuff, I will look something else.
See i said this back in page 3 in the spoiler.
And i was right all along :3
LunaHound wrote:
ph34r wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:Plus Supreme commander doesn't have gods....
40k does. your talking every single race. gigillons of units vs billions. who wins? 40k because the sheer size is massive.
SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.
40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.
Every odd other than:
Spoiler for language of poop
Spoiler:
You did call this, nice job. That being said, it's still pretty much the truth. Same goes for magnets.
Warning: NSFW ans bad words.
Ok, im going to get yelled at ALL SIDES for saying this but here goes.
Am i wrong to say that they made " warp" so vague so it can be used in arguments akin to magic?
Aka allowing fluff / story writers easy escape route when something doesn't match up or make sense?
LunaHound wrote:Ok, im going to get yelled at ALL SIDES for saying this but here goes.
Am i wrong to say that they made " warp" so vague so it can be used in arguments akin to magic?
Aka allowing fluff / story writers easy escape route when something doesn't match up or make sense?
I don't think that was the single reason they did, more along the lines of they don't even know, but yes, basically.
im2randomghgh wrote:Except that daemon just come back, over and over. There is only so much matter, but there is infinite warp space.
The Necrons have proven that it is possible to destroy the Warp using material means (Cadian Pylons).
Even if the Daemons can come back forever, which they can't without summoning, which said summoning would be impossible in a Supreme Commander society, a SupCom's army can defeat them every time, making them a mere nuisance.
HAHAHA nope. The eye of terror is the eye of terror regardless of summoning. And did you just completely tune out the part where mortal weapons can't kill daemons?
im2randomghgh wrote:Except that daemon just come back, over and over. There is only so much matter, but there is infinite warp space.
The Necrons have proven that it is possible to destroy the Warp using material means (Cadian Pylons).
Even if the Daemons can come back forever, which they can't without summoning, which said summoning would be impossible in a Supreme Commander society, a SupCom's army can defeat them every time, making them a mere nuisance.
HAHAHA nope. The eye of terror is the eye of terror regardless of summoning. And did you just completely tune out the part where mortal weapons can't kill daemons?
LunaHound wrote:Ok, im going to get yelled at ALL SIDES for saying this but here goes.
Am i wrong to say that they made " warp" so vague so it can be used in arguments akin to magic?
Aka allowing fluff / story writers easy escape route when something doesn't match up or make sense?
im2randomghgh wrote:Except that daemon just come back, over and over. There is only so much matter, but there is infinite warp space.
The Necrons have proven that it is possible to destroy the Warp using material means (Cadian Pylons).
Even if the Daemons can come back forever, which they can't without summoning, which said summoning would be impossible in a Supreme Commander society, a SupCom's army can defeat them every time, making them a mere nuisance.
HAHAHA nope. The eye of terror is the eye of terror regardless of summoning. And did you just completely tune out the part where mortal weapons can't kill daemons?
ph34r wrote:Even if the Daemons can come back forever, which they can't without summoning, which said summoning would be impossible in a Supreme Commander society, a SupCom's army can defeat them every time, making them a mere nuisance.
HAHAHA nope. The eye of terror is the eye of terror regardless of summoning. And did you just completely tune out the part where mortal weapons can't kill daemons?
How dense can you insist to be? I literally said AT THE START OF MY POST "Even if the Daemons can come back forever".
And guess what, as I ALSO JUST SAID physical means can block out the Eye of Terror. SEE: NECRON PYLONS.
If you are going to insist on continuing to not read my posts, what point is there in pretending that you have an argument? You only serve to embarrass yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother Coa wrote:I am telling him that the whole thread...
If you can come up with any new arguments I would be glad to shoot them down like I have done to every single thing you have said so far
ph34r wrote:If you can come up with any new arguments I would be glad to shoot them down like I have done to every single thing you have said so far
Ok, can something in SC universe kill a Chaos God?
Yes: the Chaos Gods only exist thanks to emotion, and 3/4 factions in SupCom would either destroy all life or destroy all emotion. The fourth would create a police state/utopia where the populace is strictly monitored. Next?
ph34r wrote:If you can come up with any new arguments I would be glad to shoot them down like I have done to every single thing you have said so far
Ok, can something in SC universe kill a Chaos God?
Yes: the Chaos Gods only exist thanks to emotion, and 3/4 factions in SupCom would either destroy all life or destroy all emotion. The fourth would create a police state/utopia where the populace is strictly monitored. Next?
No, that is not how it works... You can't kill a Chaos God you can only make him weak. ANd they can feed upon emotions of even SupCom factions.
You argument is invalid since nothing can actually kill them.
Can SupCom destroy the Warp?
Brother Coa wrote:You argument is invalid since nothing can actually kill them.
So, because nothing can 100% kill a chaos god, 40k beats every other setting by default?
.....
I think I am beginning to understand your "argument"
Exactly this, same as God. Nothing can destroy a God so God by default beats all.
Chaos Gods can't be killed, and they have unlimited number of minions.
One final question: what is stronger technology or magic?
Brother Coa wrote:You argument is invalid since nothing can actually kill them.
So, because nothing can 100% kill a chaos god, 40k beats every other setting by default?
.....
I think I am beginning to understand your "argument"
Its magic
lol
Chaos Gods feeds on emotions. SC have no emotions.
How long before the God's battery that runs on emotion last? Before long it'll be weak, SC will just take the loss of 10 hours of work and jump to a new location. Not a big deal at all.
ph34r wrote:Even if the Daemons can come back forever, which they can't without summoning, which said summoning would be impossible in a Supreme Commander society, a SupCom's army can defeat them every time, making them a mere nuisance.
HAHAHA nope. The eye of terror is the eye of terror regardless of summoning. And did you just completely tune out the part where mortal weapons can't kill daemons?
How dense can you insist to be? I literally said AT THE START OF MY POST "Even if the Daemons can come back forever".
And guess what, as I ALSO JUST SAID physical means can block out the Eye of Terror. SEE: NECRON PYLONS.
If you are going to insist on continuing to not read my posts, what point is there in pretending that you have an argument? You only serve to embarrass yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother Coa wrote:I am telling him that the whole thread...
If you can come up with any new arguments I would be glad to shoot them down like I have done to every single thing you have said so far
I read it. It just doesn't matter because you're not reading mine. YOU CANNOT KILL A DAEMON. EVER. Also, unless your factions happen to have several star gods backing them, pylons are out of the question.
im2randomghgh wrote:
I read it. It just doesn't matter because you're not reading mine. YOU CANNOT KILL A DAEMON. EVER. Also, unless your factions happen to have several star gods backing them, pylons are out of the question.
He just said that they can kill a Chaos God, a CHAOS GOD...
How does Cadians that are stationed at EoT beat Chaos?
If what you guys said are true, why would Imperium station a whole world that cant even poke or tickle Daemons there?
Brother Coa wrote:Exactly this, same as God. Nothing can destroy a God so God by default beats all.
Chaos Gods can't be killed, and they have unlimited number of minions.
One final question: what is stronger technology or magic?
Hahaha man you don't even have an argument.
Even if the Chaos Gods could only be weakened to 0.0001% of their strength, that would still obviously be a victory for SupCom. Infinitely close to dead is effectively the same as dead, or so says math.
Chaos Gods have as many minions as they have emotion for. No emotion, no power, no minions.
The icing on the cake is the fact that an Armored Command Unit could reverse engineer a Necron anti-warp Pylon, such as the Cadian Pylons, and then easily reconstruct them so as to permanently separate the warp from reality, as described in the Necron codex as their ultimate goal to defeat the Chaos Gods.
Brother Coa wrote:One final question: what is stronger technology or magic?
Oh man, you could not have set me up to support my point any better if you tried
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - 2008)
LunaHound wrote:How does Cadians that are stationed at EoT beat Chaos?
If what you guys said are true, why would Imperium station a whole world that cant even poke or tickle Daemons there?
They have faith in the Emperor. The battles are almost just a physical representation of the battle inside the soul of each and every man who stands opposed to chaos.
Cadia exists because of the Pylons that contain the warp storm.
That and the Chaos Gods actually enjoy the eternal struggle. They actually have no stock in winning, only in the eternal war that is generated. In some ways, this will ensure that the Imperium will always exist.
LunaHound wrote:
Chaos Gods feeds on emotions. SC have no emotions.
How long before the God's battery that runs on emotion last? Before long it'll be weak, SC will just take the loss of 10 hours of work and jump to a new location. Not a big deal at all.
Uh...you know very little about Chaos Gods?
They feed on emotions of every living being in the galaxy, from an ant to a Ork Squigoth. And if 40k have something that is numbers of living beings.
And as I have seen in SC there are Humans and Aliens and they all feed Chaos Gods who also feed upon 40k races. And Chaos Gods can just make one giant Warp storm and make all fancy SC tech useless ( Warp Field effect see Soulstorm Tau Stronghold for reference ).
im2randomghgh wrote:I read it. It just doesn't matter because you're not reading mine. YOU CANNOT KILL A DAEMON. EVER. Also, unless your factions happen to have several star gods backing them, pylons are out of the question.
I have read, and disproved, everything you have said.
You can't ever "kill" a daemon except by using warp powers, but you can easily banish it back to the warp using mundane means. This is a fact, and the entirety of 40k supports it. See: Codex Imperial Guard, every novel where IG fight daemons, the planet Cadia, etc.
An ACU does not need a star god to construct Pylons. As soon as he sees one, he can capture it using his nanolathe, taking full control and full knowledge of it. From that knowledge he could construct a duplicate, or he could capture a necron builder scarab in the same way and have said scarab construct it for him.
Necrons only use the mundane, physical world to construct their devices. Supreme Commanders can manipulate matter at a basic level to construct ANYTHING. Once a SupCom gets his hands on a Pylon, he can build a Pylon, and that is assuming he could not use QAI (quantum artificial intelligence, a construct of theoretically infinite intelligence) to design one himself.
Brother Coa wrote:Exactly this, same as God. Nothing can destroy a God so God by default beats all.
Chaos Gods can't be killed, and they have unlimited number of minions.
One final question: what is stronger technology or magic?
Hahaha man you don't even have an argument.
Even if the Chaos Gods could only be weakened to 0.0001% of their strength, that would still obviously be a victory for SupCom. Infinitely close to dead is effectively the same as dead, or so says math.
Chaos Gods have as many minions as they have emotion for. No emotion, no power, no minions.
The icing on the cake is the fact that an Armored Command Unit could reverse engineer a Necron anti-warp Pylon, such as the Cadian Pylons, and then easily reconstruct them so as to permanently separate the warp from reality, as described in the Necron codex as their ultimate goal to defeat the Chaos Gods.
Brother Coa wrote:One final question: what is stronger technology or magic?
Oh man, you could not have set me up to support my point any better if you tried
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - 2008)
This next question I am asking because of my non-existant knowledge of SC:
What proof do you have that they could reverse-engineer it? This is not a flame or a bash, I am truly wondering. I know nothing about the SC univers, to reiterate what I said before.
ph34r wrote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law) English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - 2008)
And that man is an idiot, he told that God doesn't exist because there was no time before Big Bang. Adn God exist beyond the realm of time and space. You post is invalid.
Maybe we should show him the Eye of Terror and how Chaos Daemons "pop up" into reality and maybe he will write another book contradicting that claim
Brother Coa wrote:Uh...you know very little about Chaos Gods?
They feed on emotions of every living being in the galaxy, from an ant to a Ork Squigoth. And if 40k have something that is numbers of living beings.
And as I have seen in SC there are Humans and Aliens and they all feed Chaos Gods who also feed upon 40k races. And Chaos Gods can just make one giant Warp storm and make all fancy SC tech useless ( Warp Field effect see Soulstorm Tau Stronghold for reference ).
Right. And in SupCom land, guess what? No emotion.
Also, Dawn of War: Soulstorm is the most notoriously un-canon video game, to the point that it is universally despised by gamers and 40k fans alike, and is made fun of to no end by the in-game dialogue of the Blood Ravens in Dawn of War II.
LunaHound wrote:
Chaos Gods feeds on emotions. SC have no emotions.
How long before the God's battery that runs on emotion last? Before long it'll be weak, SC will just take the loss of 10 hours of work and jump to a new location. Not a big deal at all.
Uh...you know very little about Chaos Gods?
They feed on emotions of every living being in the galaxy, from an ant to a Ork Squigoth. And if 40k have something that is numbers of living beings.
And as I have seen in SC there are Humans and Aliens and they all feed Chaos Gods who also feed upon 40k races. And Chaos Gods can just make one giant Warp storm and make all fancy SC tech useless ( Warp Field effect see Soulstorm Tau Stronghold for reference ).
Its not logical. If Cadia does nothing but dying ( since you said their tanks and guns are useless )
Then the despair and horror is actually feeding Chaos.
They might as well NOT be there, or station something that can cause Chaos harm there.
See, its not logical, or im missing something, so do tell me.
ph34r wrote: Also, Dawn of War: Soulstorm is the most notoriously un-canon video game, to the point that it is universally despised by gamers and 40k fans alike, and is made fun of to no end by the in-game dialogue of the Blood Ravens in Dawn of War II.
forruner_mercy wrote:What proof do you have that they could reverse-engineer it? This is not a flame or a bash, I am truly wondering. I know nothing about the SC univers, to reiterate what I said before.
A Supreme Commander has a device called a nanolathe that can manipulate matter into any structure. It is also capable of capturing non-friendly matter and asserting control over it by rewriting the target's brain/computer, as well as completely dissolving a targeted object into its component parts for analysis. Additionally, any person vehicle or construct possessing the knowledge of how to construct a device can be in this same way mind-controlled to construct the same devices for the Supreme Commander's control.
LunaHound wrote:
Its not logical. If Cadia does nothing but dying ( since you said their tanks and guns are useless )
Then the despair and horror is actually feeding Chaos.
They might as well NOT be there, or station something that can cause Chaos harm there.
See, its not logical, or im missing something, so do tell me.
That's the logic, Chaos Gods get feed from the eternal war they created in the Milky Way. It's not matter if it's an Eldar, Human, Ork... whenever we charge with rage we feed Khorne, whenever we love we feed Slaanesh...
And there was never Daemons on Cadia ( they can't enter there ), only Chaos Space Marines.
ph34r wrote:
Also, Dawn of War: Soulstorm is the most notoriously un-canon video game, to the point that it is universally despised by gamers and 40k fans alike, and is made fun of to no end by the in-game dialogue of the Blood Ravens in Dawn of War II.
Your thread presents a widely not-accepted opinion of SS canon, and even if we ASSUME that it is canon, without the ability to gain victory on the ground, a warp storm is fleeting, and given that SupComs and ARM/CORE commanders have been known to upload their consciousness into machines, waiting out a warp-storm is a non-issue.
Furthermore, as a SupCom can construct a Necron Pylon or any other anti-warp device given that he has encountered it at least once, he would be entirely immune to the effects of chaos.
forruner_mercy wrote:What proof do you have that they could reverse-engineer it? This is not a flame or a bash, I am truly wondering. I know nothing about the SC univers, to reiterate what I said before.
A Supreme Commander has a device called a nanolathe that can manipulate matter into any structure. It is also capable of capturing non-friendly matter and asserting control over it by rewriting the target's brain/computer, as well as completely dissolving a targeted object into its component parts for analysis. Additionally, any person vehicle or construct possessing the knowledge of how to construct a device can be in this same way mind-controlled to construct the same devices for the Supreme Commander's control.
As much as I like 40K, I think I will have to go with SC.
And thanks for that info ph34r, helped quite a lot.
im2randomghgh wrote:I read it. It just doesn't matter because you're not reading mine. YOU CANNOT KILL A DAEMON. EVER. Also, unless your factions happen to have several star gods backing them, pylons are out of the question.
I have read, and disproved, everything you have said.
You can't ever "kill" a daemon except by using warp powers, but you can easily banish it back to the warp using mundane means. This is a fact, and the entirety of 40k supports it. See: Codex Imperial Guard, every novel where IG fight daemons, the planet Cadia, etc.
An ACU does not need a star god to construct Pylons. As soon as he sees one, he can capture it using his nanolathe, taking full control and full knowledge of it. From that knowledge he could construct a duplicate, or he could capture a necron builder scarab in the same way and have said scarab construct it for him.
Necrons only use the mundane, physical world to construct their devices. Supreme Commanders can manipulate matter at a basic level to construct ANYTHING. Once a SupCom gets his hands on a Pylon, he can build a Pylon, and that is assuming he could not use QAI (quantum artificial intelligence, a construct of theoretically infinite intelligence) to design one himself.
Anything else?
You disproved absolutely nothing. NOTHING. You just said over and over that your machines are tall. Literally, nothing else.
Lesser daemons only using mundane means. Only using with knowledge of this specific daemon can you banished anything with more favour than a disc of Tzeentch.
Or are you forgetting that Ravenor had to FOLD A DIMENSION IN UPON ITSELF to stop a daemon. And that didn't even banish it, it just kept it from eating him.
Also, that's assuming they control a pylon. If their weapons are as powerful as you seem to think, they wouldn't be able to get the defenders off of it without destroy it, meaning they'd have to have humans storm it.
That next statement was just so, so dumb. Supreme Commanders can manipulate matter, Necrons control the physical world...wait a second, those are THE EXACT SAME THING. God dammit.
forruner_mercy wrote:What proof do you have that they could reverse-engineer it? This is not a flame or a bash, I am truly wondering. I know nothing about the SC univers, to reiterate what I said before.
A Supreme Commander has a device called a nanolathe that can manipulate matter into any structure. It is also capable of capturing non-friendly matter and asserting control over it by rewriting the target's brain/computer, as well as completely dissolving a targeted object into its component parts for analysis. Additionally, any person vehicle or construct possessing the knowledge of how to construct a device can be in this same way mind-controlled to construct the same devices for the Supreme Commander's control.
Right, and we are talking here about totally different universe that exist beyond our realm and it's drawin energy from it. You can't destroy it - face it.
And you didn't bring down anything, you have just trolling this entire thread. Going as far as saying that they can kill God.
Brother Coa wrote:That's the logic, Chaos Gods get feed from the eternal war they created in the Milky Way. It's not matter if it's an Eldar, Human, Ork... whenever we charge with rage we feed Khorne, whenever we love we feed Slaanesh...
And there was never Daemons on Cadia ( they can't enter there ), only Chaos Space Marines.
That is an entirely unfounded opinion that somehow the entirety of the Imperium's defense is a sham, and that somehow the Imperial Guard has never defeated a daemonic force.
Again, READ THE IG CODEX. IG CAN DESTROYDAEMONS WITHOUT INQUISITION.
ph34r wrote:
Furthermore, as a SupCom can construct a Necron Pylon or any other anti-warp device given that he has encountered it at least once, he would be entirely immune to the effects of chaos.
Now we are talking "what would happened if could happened". What if Chaos Gods enter in battle Together with C'Tan and + they ressurect the Emperor and summon all Primarchs and go rampage in SC universe?
And by the time SC races realize what Warp is it will be to late.
Brother Coa wrote:Right, and we are talking here about totally different universe that exist beyond our realm and it's drawin energy from it. You can't destroy it - face it.
And you didn't bring down anything, you have just trolling this entire thread. Going as far as saying that they can kill God.
Why are you talking about God? God does not exist in Supreme Commander and 40k. If you want to debate the existence of God, go bring me a religious scholar, not some random person on the internet, and do it elsewhere.
SupCom can use 40k technology. 40k technology can seal away the warp.
Chaos Gods survive on emotion. SupCom eliminates emotion.
ph34r wrote:
Furthermore, as a SupCom can construct a Necron Pylon or any other anti-warp device given that he has encountered it at least once, he would be entirely immune to the effects of chaos.
Now we are talking "what would happened if could happened". What if Chaos Gods enter in battle Together with C'Tan and + they ressurect the Emperor and summon all Primarchs and go rampage in SC universe?
And by the time SC races realize what Warp is it will be to late.
Right, but is that possible or even plausible? No. On the other hand, it is extremely easy for a SupCom.
LunaHound wrote:
Its not logical. If Cadia does nothing but dying ( since you said their tanks and guns are useless )
Then the despair and horror is actually feeding Chaos.
They might as well NOT be there, or station something that can cause Chaos harm there.
See, its not logical, or im missing something, so do tell me.
That's the logic, Chaos Gods get feed from the eternal war they created in the Milky Way. It's not matter if it's an Eldar, Human, Ork... whenever we charge with rage we feed Khorne, whenever we love we feed Slaanesh...
And there was never Daemons on Cadia ( they can't enter there ), only Chaos Space Marines.
Thats not logic. Its logic to "why Chaos is still thriving"
but its not logic to why imperium stationed free food aka Cadians for Chaos to thrive on.
See, Chaos is like a fire, it needs to feed. Emotions of beings with emotions are like fire wood with gasoline on top.
If we want to halt fire, we dont leave wood or gasoline around to feed the fire.
ph34r wrote:
Again, READ THE IG CODEX. IG CAN DESTROYDAEMONS WITHOUT INQUISITION.
I did. And that were lesser invasions. I have given source for you to read and you just said: "Nah"
So you think that just because the IG can only defeat "lesser invasions" of daemons (which is unfounded: in all of 40k's history the IG have defeated all manner of daemon, sometimes requiring orbital bombardment or exterminatus)
If the IG can only defeat lesser invasions...
Then SupCom can defeat any invasion, BECAUSE A SUPCOM'S ARMY IS LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF TIMES MORE POWERFUL THAN AN IG ARMY.
No, nothing can defeat Chaos except the Emepror. ( but that's another story ).
And 40k technology only prevents Warp Storm from spreading it can't actually kill it.
And only thing that does that is on 1 planet and it was build by race now lost al knowledge of reproducing that.
No, nothing can defeat Chaos except the Emepror. ( but that's another story ).
And 40k technology only prevents Warp Storm from spreading it can't actually kill it.
And only thing that does that is on 1 planet and it was build by race now lost al knowledge of reproducing that.
Have you ever considered thats a lie? Just a Emperium PROPAGANDA?
Brother Coa wrote:No, nothing can defeat Chaos except the Emepror. ( but that's another story ).
And 40k technology only prevents Warp Storm from spreading it can't actually kill it.
And only thing that does that is on 1 planet and it was build by race now lost al knowledge of reproducing that.
Says fething who? If the chaos gods have no emotion to feed from and no access to physical space, they are DEFEATED.
ph34r wrote:So you think that just because the IG can only defeat "lesser invasions" of daemons (which is unfounded: in all of 40k's history the IG have defeated all manner of daemon, sometimes requiring orbital bombardment or exterminatus)
If the IG can only defeat lesser invasions...
Then SupCom can defeat any invasion, BECAUSE A SUPCOM'S ARMY IS LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF TIMES MORE POWERFUL THAN AN IG ARMY.
You are missing the point. The Guard can handle small time Daemons ( like Bloodletters in: "Space Marine" ) But I am talking about Daemon Princes and their invasion. SC use technology, and if anything Daemons and Warp are death to it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:
Says fething who? If the chaos gods have no emotion to feed from and no access to physical space, they are DEFEATED.
5'th edition rulebook, Chaos Daemons codex and 4'th edition Necrons + various other fluff.
ph34r wrote:
Also, Dawn of War: Soulstorm is the most notoriously un-canon video game, to the point that it is universally despised by gamers and 40k fans alike, and is made fun of to no end by the in-game dialogue of the Blood Ravens in Dawn of War II.
Your thread presents a widely not-accepted opinion of SS canon, and even if we ASSUME that it is canon, without the ability to gain victory on the ground, a warp storm is fleeting, and given that SupComs and ARM/CORE commanders have been known to upload their consciousness into machines, waiting out a warp-storm is a non-issue.
Furthermore, as a SupCom can construct a Necron Pylon or any other anti-warp device given that he has encountered it at least once, he would be entirely immune to the effects of chaos.
No. If he wants to win the war, he had a desire. If he has a desire he can be corrupted.
If he is waging war, he is shedding blood. If he is shedding blood, he can be corrupted.
If he is using advanced tactics, he is scheming. You see where this is going.
Brother Coa wrote:You are missing the point. The Guard can handle small time Daemons ( like Bloodletters in: "Space Marine" ) But I am talking about Daemon Princes and their invasion. SC use technology, and if anything Daemons and Warp are death to it.
Dante cut Skarbrand in two using only his Power Axe. Therefore, Daemons of any scale can be destroyed by physical means as long as the means is strong enough, therefore if your physical means happen to be a 166 meter tall robot, you will be able to handle a 10 meter tall daemon.
Brother Coa wrote:5'th edition rulebook, Chaos Daemons codex and 4'th edition Necrons + various other fluff.
The Necron codex supports me: realspace can be sealed off from warpspace using Pylons, which would mean death to the chaos gods.
Thanks for the support!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:No. If he wants to win the war, he had a desire. If he has a desire he can be corrupted.
If he is waging war, he is shedding blood. If he is shedding blood, he can be corrupted.
If he is using advanced tactics, he is scheming. You see where this is going.
And if he builds a Pylon and glues it to his ACU's head, he is invincible. And besides that, 3/4 of the SupCom factions are not susceptible to those corrputions, because they are hyperdimensional aliens/brainwashed cultists/robots.
Otherwise the 40k universe would devolve into chaos ACUs vs noncorrupted ACUs.
You are missing the point. The Guard can handle small time Daemons ( like Bloodletters in: "Space Marine" ) But I am talking about Daemon Princes and their invasion. SC use technology, and if anything Daemons and Warp are death to it.
Whats the difference? enough Flash light can kill Blood Letters, enough plasma cannons should be able to kill Blood Thirsters.
especially plasma cannon the size of a IG titan.
Brother Coa wrote:You are missing the point. The Guard can handle small time Daemons ( like Bloodletters in: "Space Marine" ) But I am talking about Daemon Princes and their invasion. SC use technology, and if anything Daemons and Warp are death to it.
Dante cut Skarbrand in two using only his Power Axe. Therefore, Daemons of any scale can be destroyed by physical means as long as the means is strong enough, therefore if your physical means happen to be a 166 meter tall robot, you will be able to handle a 10 meter tall daemon.
Brother Coa wrote:5'th edition rulebook, Chaos Daemons codex and 4'th edition Necrons + various other fluff.
The Necron codex supports me: realspace can be sealed off from warpspace using Pylons, which would mean death to the chaos gods.
Thanks for the support!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:No. If he wants to win the war, he had a desire. If he has a desire he can be corrupted.
If he is waging war, he is shedding blood. If he is shedding blood, he can be corrupted.
If he is using advanced tactics, he is scheming. You see where this is going.
And if he builds a Pylon and glues it to his ACU's head, he is invincible. And besides that, 3/4 of the SupCom factions are not susceptible to those corrputions, because they are hyperdimensional aliens/brainwashed cultists/robots.
Otherwise the 40k universe would devolve into chaos ACUs vs noncorrupted ACUs.
Did you not JUST read the reason why they would never be able to get a hold of a pylon ever?
And hyperdimensional aliens sounds a lot like every 40k faction since they can travel to the warp, the men of iron (robots) were corrupted, and the cultists...do I NEED to answer it?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunaHound wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
You are missing the point. The Guard can handle small time Daemons ( like Bloodletters in: "Space Marine" ) But I am talking about Daemon Princes and their invasion. SC use technology, and if anything Daemons and Warp are death to it.
Whats the difference? enough Flash light can kill Blood Letters, enough plasma cannons should be able to kill Blood Thirsters.
especially plasma cannon the size of a IG titan.
Bloodletters are not made of matter. This is what you have to realize.
im2randomghgh wrote:Did you not JUST read the reason why they would never be able to get a hold of a pylon ever?
And hyperdimensional aliens sounds a lot like every 40k faction since they can travel to the warp, the men of iron (robots) were corrupted, and the cultists...do I NEED to answer it?
Right, you think he would never be able to get a Pylon because of the whispering of the dark gods? Whispering takes time, teleporting is fast. If you had some other point please elaborate.
im2randomghgh wrote:Bloodletters are not made of matter. This is what you have to realize.
We all realize this. And yet, they can be sent back to the warp by flashlights, bolters, and power axes. Same for any scale of Daemon, if you have the firepower. And SupCom has excessive firepower.
im2randomghgh wrote:Did you not JUST read the reason why they would never be able to get a hold of a pylon ever?
And hyperdimensional aliens sounds a lot like every 40k faction since they can travel to the warp, the men of iron (robots) were corrupted, and the cultists...do I NEED to answer it?
Right, you think he would never be able to get a Pylon because of the whispering of the dark gods? Whispering takes time, teleporting is fast. If you had some other point please elaborate.
im2randomghgh wrote:Bloodletters are not made of matter. This is what you have to realize.
We all realize this. And yet, they can be sent back to the warp by flashlights, bolters, and power axes. Same for any scale of Daemon, if you have the firepower. And SupCom has excessive firepower.
1. You just proved you didn't read it. You wouldn't get close because if you used your "huge guns", you would destroy it. If you advanced on foot, your would be raped.
2. No. The bigger daemons choose their form. If they wanted to be, they could be 2km tall. They have the favour of their gods=feth if you try to stop them.
im2randomghgh wrote:1. You just proved you didn't read it. You wouldn't get close because if you used your "huge guns", you would destroy it. If you advanced on foot, your would be raped.
Oh sorry I thought you were joking because your "THEY ARE THE SAME SO YOU ARE WRONG GOTCHA" point was so dumb hahaah here, I'll quote it here:
You disproved absolutely nothing. NOTHING. You just said over and over that your machines are tall. Literally, nothing else.
Lesser daemons only using mundane means. Only using with knowledge of this specific daemon can you banished anything with more favour than a disc of Tzeentch.
Or are you forgetting that Ravenor had to FOLD A DIMENSION IN UPON ITSELF to stop a daemon. And that didn't even banish it, it just kept it from eating him.
1. Tall, made of materials as strong as a necron's, dense as they have no pilots. Constructable in seconds to minutes. Constructable infinitely. Perfectly repairable, and self repairing.
Banishment is different than physical destruction. Even the Greatest of greater daemons have been destroyed by physical means, SEE: DANTE CUT SKARBRAND IN HALF WITH AN AXE
Ravenor did not have the physical means do destroy the daemon in that book, so he used psychic means, which is fine too.
Also, that's assuming they control a pylon. If their weapons are as powerful as you seem to think, they wouldn't be able to get the defenders off of it without destroy it, meaning they'd have to have humans storm it.
SupCom weapons scale from massive type plasma cannons to titan weaponry to deathstrike launchers and up. A SupCom would use appropriate force, or could have his forces just step on the necrons if firepower would be too dangerous.
That next statement was just so, so dumb. Supreme Commanders can manipulate matter, Necrons control the physical world...wait a second, those are THE EXACT SAME THING. God dammit.
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. WOW, COULD YOU HAVE MISSED IT ANY HARDER?
SupCom's have the exact same type of technological mastery as Necrons, only better faster and stronger. If Necrons can make a Pylon, SupComs can make a Pylon. That's the point. But I am glad that you so angrily agree with me
im2randomghgh wrote:2. No. The bigger daemons choose their form. If they wanted to be, they could be 2km tall. They have the favour of their gods=feth if you try to stop them.
This is false, greater daemons have forms that they keep. If a greater daemon could choose any size, they all WOULD be 2km tall, and they would never be defeated, and they would conquer every world that they are summoned to. But they aren't. And they don't
If it's a machine, then a malignant machine-spirit can overtake it, an Ork can loot it, or a Here-tech can reverse engineer it.
An Orky... whatever you call these things... pretty much spells the end of the battle, because once they've looted one, well, it just snowballs from there.
And you never, ever run out of Orks.
Malignant Tech-Spirits? That's basically having daemons possess your STC foundry. Not only is your macro-forge possessed, but everything it stamps out bears an eight-rayed star and a malignant, violent sentience that has a deep-seated, personal interest in inflicting torment and agony upon you. Personally. No psykers needed, this drek can just happen without the proper rituals being observed by the Adeptus Mechanicus (which this out-universe faction is guaranteed not to have).
Of course, giving all of this hardware to Chaos will end the 40K universe in short order... but that, at least, keeps it "in house", rather than some upstart getting involved.
So, there you have it. Malignant Machine Spirits take over all the SC tech, the latter then proceeds to devour them, sucking them all into the Warp to be the playthings of Daemons and Daemonettes unto the very end of eternity.
Psienesis wrote:If it's a machine, then a malignant machine-spirit can overtake it, an Ork can loot it, or a Here-tech can reverse engineer it.
An Orky... whatever you call these things... pretty much spells the end of the battle, because once they've looted one, well, it just snowballs from there.
And you never, ever run out of Orks.
Malignant Tech-Spirits? That's basically having daemons possess your STC foundry. Not only is your macro-forge possessed, but everything it stamps out bears an eight-rayed star and a malignant, violent sentience that has a deep-seated, personal interest in inflicting torment and agony upon you. Personally. No psykers needed, this drek can just happen without the proper rituals being observed by the Adeptus Mechanicus (which this out-universe faction is guaranteed not to have).
Of course, giving all of this hardware to Chaos will end the 40K universe in short order... but that, at least, keeps it "in house", rather than some upstart getting involved.
So, there you have it. Malignant Machine Spirits take over all the SC tech, the latter then proceeds to devour them, sucking them all into the Warp to be the playthings of Daemons and Daemonettes unto the very end of eternity.
Only machines with Machine Spirits rather than true programming and AI can be taken over by Machine Spirits.
That is to say, 40k machines are vulnerable to machine spirits because they both come from the same source: Imperial STC, and the degenerated versions, which have pseudo-AI.
An obvious example is the Tau. Do their machines get possessed out of the blue all over the place, rendering them unable to function? No. That in fact never happens. SupCom machinery would be totally safe.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and here's a picture a found to illustrate some scale for those who might not fully get how big SupCom units are:
The white unit is the second tallest SupCom unit. The tallest is approximately 50% taller. The smallest unit is a "mech marine", supcom's worst infantry unit. Next to it you can see a human. It stands at 12 meters tall, or about 5 times the height of an Astartes. It is capable of running at a top speed of 175 miles per hour. It is capable of being produced so fast that it takes longer to walk out of its construction factory and clear the way for the next unit, than it actually takes to construct, for any Commander with a decent economic base. The commander can construct as many of these factories as his mass resource income can support.
Psienesis wrote:If it's a machine, then a malignant machine-spirit can overtake it, an Ork can loot it, or a Here-tech can reverse engineer it.
An Orky... whatever you call these things... pretty much spells the end of the battle, because once they've looted one, well, it just snowballs from there.
And you never, ever run out of Orks.
Malignant Tech-Spirits? That's basically having daemons possess your STC foundry. Not only is your macro-forge possessed, but everything it stamps out bears an eight-rayed star and a malignant, violent sentience that has a deep-seated, personal interest in inflicting torment and agony upon you. Personally. No psykers needed, this drek can just happen without the proper rituals being observed by the Adeptus Mechanicus (which this out-universe faction is guaranteed not to have).
Of course, giving all of this hardware to Chaos will end the 40K universe in short order... but that, at least, keeps it "in house", rather than some upstart getting involved.
So, there you have it. Malignant Machine Spirits take over all the SC tech, the latter then proceeds to devour them, sucking them all into the Warp to be the playthings of Daemons and Daemonettes unto the very end of eternity.
Only machines with Machine Spirits rather than true programming and AI can be taken over by Machine Spirits.
That is to say, 40k machines are vulnerable to machine spirits because they both come from the same source: Imperial STC, and the degenerated versions, which have pseudo-AI.
An obvious example is the Tau. Do their machines get possessed out of the blue all over the place, rendering them unable to function? No. That in fact never happens. SupCom machinery would be totally safe.
Do belive in Gaunt's ghosts the men of iron(AIs) got possessed and the thing is Tzeench does have so many illusions and changeling that you're probably going to be shooting yourself a couple times. And back to my assassinate post a small squad gets inside with melta bombs your vehicles don't have internal defences so bye bye. Anyway judging by the votes I'd say its clear who won, but doubt that'll stop the arguements.
ph34r wrote:An obvious example is the Tau. Do their machines get possessed out of the blue all over the place, rendering them unable to function? No. That in fact never happens. SupCom machinery would be totally safe.
Do belive in Gaunt's ghosts the men of iron(AIs) got possessed and the thing is Tzeench does have so many illusions and changeling that you're probably going to be shooting yourself a couple times. And back to my assassinate post a small squad gets inside with melta bombs your vehicles don't have internal defences so bye bye. Anyway judging by the votes I'd say its clear who won, but doubt that'll stop the arguements.
The Men of Iron were created by STC, in the Dark Age/Golden Age of technology. As such, they are vulnerable to malignant machine spirits and chaos influence.
Again, you can see that Tau technology does not suffer these issues, as it is not STC made.
Supreme Commander vehicles DO NOT HAVE INTERIORS. You cannot get inside a SupCom's vehicle, because there is no space inside. There are no internal defences, because there is no internal SPACE. The only unit in a Supreme Commander's unit that has an actual pilot is the SupCom's own Armored Command Unit, and even then the only internals are the cockpit which is attached to the body, which has no internal space. You would have as much luck assassinating a mountain by "getting inside". Spoiler: It's solid rock.
Truth is not decided by a vote. It is shown by evidence!
Supreme commander had some pretty intresting units, but when it comes down to it the resources that SC could field against 40k would be nothing. 40k simply has more bodies of varying effectiveness to throw at a problem.
Here's how it would ACTUALLY go down, after losing a sector or two to the UED (depending how fast they expand) the Imperium would EVENTUALLY send a battlefleet to investigate, now, SupCom doesnt specify space combat so lets just assume they have portals so they dont use ships, sustained bombardment by a large fleet followed by invasion might even the odds, we dont know how strong UED armor is compared to say terminator armor or adamantium, BUT the imperium would throw whatever it took(including) psykers to defeat a commander, then the mechanicus would intergrate the machine gods "blessing" into standard imperium tech, uniting advantages of both and purging the galaxy of xenos.....except necrons and tyranids
guyperson5 wrote:The Imperium have billions of devoted souls at their disposal. Winners
A single ACU can create dozens of battle units of strength equivalent to an Imperial Warhound Battle Titan every second... using only the resources available in a 10km by 10km square area of land.
And how do you propose to bring all those billions of souls to bear on a fortress planet? Or get them into combat with an ACU that is capable of instantaneous intersystem teleportation?
Skal098 wrote:Supreme commander had some pretty intresting units, but when it comes down to it the resources that SC could field against 40k would be nothing. 40k simply has more bodies of varying effectiveness to throw at a problem.
Untrue. A Supreme Commander's resources are limitless, has no supply train, no need for ammunition, no morale to worry about. He can literally produce units out of pure energy converted into matter.
If all of you who are voting SC based on the speed of unit production, as well as resource availability, and in field unit production, remember that it is an RTS. place the comparison to 40K more in line with Dawn of War, and it loses some of those advantages. also, the speed of unit production in the game is to allow you to finish the mission/level in a reasonable amount of time. if they made the units take even a semi realistic amount of time to produce, people would only now be finishing the first mission.
Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:If all of you who are voting SC based on the speed of unit production, as well as resource availability, and in field unit production, remember that it is an RTS. place the comparison to 40K more in line with Dawn of War, and it loses some of those advantages. also, the speed of unit production in the game is to allow you to finish the mission/level in a reasonable amount of time. if they made the units take even a semi realistic amount of time to produce, people would only now be finishing the first mission.
Yeah, I always thought the whole "building a titan in 3 seconds" thing was a bit sketchy.
How long does it take in the storylines? I mean, isn't there a fluff or lore section?
im2randomghgh wrote:1. You just proved you didn't read it. You wouldn't get close because if you used your "huge guns", you would destroy it. If you advanced on foot, your would be raped.
Oh sorry I thought you were joking because your "THEY ARE THE SAME SO YOU ARE WRONG GOTCHA" point was so dumb hahaah here, I'll quote it here:
You disproved absolutely nothing. NOTHING. You just said over and over that your machines are tall. Literally, nothing else.
Lesser daemons only using mundane means. Only using with knowledge of this specific daemon can you banished anything with more favour than a disc of Tzeentch.
Or are you forgetting that Ravenor had to FOLD A DIMENSION IN UPON ITSELF to stop a daemon. And that didn't even banish it, it just kept it from eating him.
1. Tall, made of materials as strong as a necron's, dense as they have no pilots. Constructable in seconds to minutes. Constructable infinitely. Perfectly repairable, and self repairing.
Banishment is different than physical destruction. Even the Greatest of greater daemons have been destroyed by physical means, SEE: DANTE CUT SKARBRAND IN HALF WITH AN AXE
Ravenor did not have the physical means do destroy the daemon in that book, so he used psychic means, which is fine too.
Also, that's assuming they control a pylon. If their weapons are as powerful as you seem to think, they wouldn't be able to get the defenders off of it without destroy it, meaning they'd have to have humans storm it.
SupCom weapons scale from massive type plasma cannons to titan weaponry to deathstrike launchers and up. A SupCom would use appropriate force, or could have his forces just step on the necrons if firepower would be too dangerous.
That next statement was just so, so dumb. Supreme Commanders can manipulate matter, Necrons control the physical world...wait a second, those are THE EXACT SAME THING. God dammit.
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. WOW, COULD YOU HAVE MISSED IT ANY HARDER?
SupCom's have the exact same type of technological mastery as Necrons, only better faster and stronger. If Necrons can make a Pylon, SupComs can make a Pylon. That's the point. But I am glad that you so angrily agree with me
im2randomghgh wrote:2. No. The bigger daemons choose their form. If they wanted to be, they could be 2km tall. They have the favour of their gods=feth if you try to stop them.
This is false, greater daemons have forms that they keep. If a greater daemon could choose any size, they all WOULD be 2km tall, and they would never be defeated, and they would conquer every world that they are summoned to. But they aren't. And they don't
1. Not "Constructable infinitely". As I have been pointing out, There is only so much matter, there is infinite warp-stuff. And Dante, the golden warriors who will stand at his god's side at the end of time, who knew the daemon's true name, killed him? Shocker. Plus, Skarbrand isn't "the greatest of greater daemons". He is a washed-up former Bodyguard of Khorne, who pisses himself whenever An'ggrath walks by. And you missed the Ravenor point. He folded a dimension upon itself to kill his enemy. A dimension, you know, one of those things the physical universe is?
2. Once you resort to "Imma step on you", you know you're stretching it. Plus, Necron Gauss weapons, which unravel the target at an atomic level, would be capable of owning any of your machines, no matter how big. You stated yourself that it is a construct centered around ONE atom. Meaning pwnage by gauss.
3. Actually at the time you were spouting nonsense about how necron tech was inferior.
4. Uhmmm...NO. In the GK Omnibus, Ghargatuloth was directly stated as being two kilometers long. Magnus repeatedly demonstrated the ability to alter his height at a whim. The whole point of daemons is that they never occupy a rigid shell. It even says on their lexicanum page that Lords of Change can only be defeated when Tzeentch wants them to be.
Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:If all of you who are voting SC based on the speed of unit production, as well as resource availability, and in field unit production, remember that it is an RTS. place the comparison to 40K more in line with Dawn of War, and it loses some of those advantages. also, the speed of unit production in the game is to allow you to finish the mission/level in a reasonable amount of time. if they made the units take even a semi realistic amount of time to produce, people would only now be finishing the first mission.
Yeah, I always thought the whole "building a titan in 3 seconds" thing was a bit sketchy.
How long does it take in the storylines? I mean, isn't there a fluff or lore section?
The game is the fluff and it's been written to justify the game, so ya it takes 3 seconds to build a titan sized robot in the storyline. Because they build everything out of supper magic nano bots (patent pending) and that is the story. The whole story is actually based around the ACU and how it can summon armies more or less like magic.
Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:If all of you who are voting SC based on the speed of unit production, as well as resource availability, and in field unit production, remember that it is an RTS. place the comparison to 40K more in line with Dawn of War, and it loses some of those advantages. also, the speed of unit production in the game is to allow you to finish the mission/level in a reasonable amount of time. if they made the units take even a semi realistic amount of time to produce, people would only now be finishing the first mission.
Incorrect, fluffwise SupCom and Total Annihilation adhere to the game build speed 100%, this is seen in the TA intro and never contradicted in SupCom.
im2randomghgh wrote:1. Not "Constructable infinitely". As I have been pointing out, There is only so much matter, there is infinite warp-stuff. And Dante, the golden warriors who will stand at his god's side at the end of time, who knew the daemon's true name, killed him? Shocker. Plus, Skarbrand isn't "the greatest of greater daemons". He is a washed-up former Bodyguard of Khorne, who pisses himself whenever An'ggrath walks by. And you missed the Ravenor point. He folded a dimension upon itself to kill his enemy. A dimension, you know, one of those things the physical universe is?
2. Once you resort to "Imma step on you", you know you're stretching it. Plus, Necron Gauss weapons, which unravel the target at an atomic level, would be capable of owning any of your machines, no matter how big. You stated yourself that it is a construct centered around ONE atom. Meaning pwnage by gauss.
3. Actually at the time you were spouting nonsense about how necron tech was inferior.
4. Uhmmm...NO. In the GK Omnibus, Ghargatuloth was directly stated as being two kilometers long. Magnus repeatedly demonstrated the ability to alter his height at a whim. The whole point of daemons is that they never occupy a rigid shell. It even says on their lexicanum page that Lords of Change can only be defeated when Tzeentch wants them to be.
Actually yes, constructable infinitely, as far as the life span of the galaxy is concerned. Compared to the meager quadrillionths of the available resources that the Imperial Armies make use of, a Supreme Commander can use every last bit of matter to construct his army. He can additionally reclaim destroyed matter, and turn energy into matter. The energy generation means are nonspecified, and require no resource input.
ADDITIONALLY, one faction, the Aeon, can construct a device that pulls energy from subspace to convert to usable energy which is then converted to matter and output as matter and energy. The amount of resources produced is LITERALLY INFINITE. The device sustains the fastest rate of nanolathe construction capable of any unit, and enables the SupCom to literally never run out of resources.
I read Ravenor. The whole trilogy, and Eisenhorn too. They did not have the physical means to banish the daemon, so they had to use supernatural means. Additionally though Eisenhorn is my favorite 40k book it is worth noting that the depiction of the greater daemons in it is 100% contradictory to all other descriptions of greater daemons in 40k, making it not adherent to mainline fluff.
I also like how you think that Gauss weapons are extra good against things.... made of atoms? Gauss weapons are actually less effective against SupCom's construction type, as they are completely ordered down to a molecular level, AND protected by an energy field, making the activation energy needed to remove the first atom far greater than otherwise. Unless you are saying that Gauss = auto-win-no-matter-what, in which I will point you at the fluff where a Marine's relatively unadvanced armor can withstand hits from a Gauss flayer, and laugh at how you think that even more advanced armor would somehow be weaker against it?
4. This is a cop out and false, if your last defense is "they only lose when they want to" then you can say that the chaos gods will beat every faction every time, except as we all know from reading 40k background, this is not true. if they can change size at whim then their size has no effect on their power as they can still be regularly destroyed by chapter masters throwing axes around and primarchs literally breaking them on their knees.
Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:If all of you who are voting SC based on the speed of unit production, as well as resource availability, and in field unit production, remember that it is an RTS. place the comparison to 40K more in line with Dawn of War, and it loses some of those advantages. also, the speed of unit production in the game is to allow you to finish the mission/level in a reasonable amount of time. if they made the units take even a semi realistic amount of time to produce, people would only now be finishing the first mission.
Incorrect, fluffwise SupCom and Total Annihilation adhere to the game build speed 100%, this is seen in the TA intro and never contradicted in SupCom.
im2randomghgh wrote:1. Not "Constructable infinitely". As I have been pointing out, There is only so much matter, there is infinite warp-stuff. And Dante, the golden warriors who will stand at his god's side at the end of time, who knew the daemon's true name, killed him? Shocker. Plus, Skarbrand isn't "the greatest of greater daemons". He is a washed-up former Bodyguard of Khorne, who pisses himself whenever An'ggrath walks by. And you missed the Ravenor point. He folded a dimension upon itself to kill his enemy. A dimension, you know, one of those things the physical universe is?
2. Once you resort to "Imma step on you", you know you're stretching it. Plus, Necron Gauss weapons, which unravel the target at an atomic level, would be capable of owning any of your machines, no matter how big. You stated yourself that it is a construct centered around ONE atom. Meaning pwnage by gauss.
3. Actually at the time you were spouting nonsense about how necron tech was inferior.
4. Uhmmm...NO. In the GK Omnibus, Ghargatuloth was directly stated as being two kilometers long. Magnus repeatedly demonstrated the ability to alter his height at a whim. The whole point of daemons is that they never occupy a rigid shell. It even says on their lexicanum page that Lords of Change can only be defeated when Tzeentch wants them to be.
Actually yes, constructable infinitely, as far as the life span of the galaxy is concerned. Compared to the meager quadrillionths of the available resources that the Imperial Armies make use of, a Supreme Commander can use every last bit of matter to construct his army. He can additionally reclaim destroyed matter, and turn energy into matter. The energy generation means are nonspecified, and require no resource input.
ADDITIONALLY, one faction, the Aeon, can construct a device that pulls energy from subspace to convert to usable energy which is then converted to matter and output as matter and energy. The amount of resources produced is LITERALLY INFINITE. The device sustains the fastest rate of nanolathe construction capable of any unit, and enables the SupCom to literally never run out of resources.
I read Ravenor. The whole trilogy, and Eisenhorn too. They did not have the physical means to banish the daemon, so they had to use supernatural means. Additionally though Eisenhorn is my favorite 40k book it is worth noting that the depiction of the greater daemons in it is 100% contradictory to all other descriptions of greater daemons in 40k, making it not adherent to mainline fluff.
I also like how you think that Gauss weapons are extra good against things.... made of atoms? Gauss weapons are actually less effective against SupCom's construction type, as they are completely ordered down to a molecular level, AND protected by an energy field, making the activation energy needed to remove the first atom far greater than otherwise. Unless you are saying that Gauss = auto-win-no-matter-what, in which I will point you at the fluff where a Marine's relatively unadvanced armor can withstand hits from a Gauss flayer, and laugh at how you think that even more advanced armor would somehow be weaker against it?
4. This is a cop out and false, if your last defense is "they only lose when they want to" then you can say that the chaos gods will beat every faction every time, except as we all know from reading 40k background, this is not true. if they can change size at whim then their size has no effect on their power as they can still be regularly destroyed by chapter masters throwing axes around and primarchs literally breaking them on their knees.
I love how you only quote some parts of my arguments.
1. What does the lifespan of the galaxy have to do with it? There is only so much matter in existence. It is not like it being old means it can produce matter, which is literally impossible. Also, you can't "create" energy. It can never be made or destroyed, simply transferred and/or transformed. I assume you mean generating electricity? Energy can NOT be transformed into matter, ever. By definition your entire universe is invalid. Matter can't be destroyed either. Man, it seems like EVERY SINGLE WORD in your post is wrong.
2. It doesn't matter that the depiction is different. A daemon can appear in literally ANY form. Your puppy could be a Bloodthirster. The only ones who can't are Nurglitch Greater Daemons, who are avatars of Nurgle.
3. So guns that are specifically designed to unravel atoms at an individual level wouldn't affect an individual atom? VERY impressive argumet you've got there /sarcasm. Also, necrons can't be destroyed. So...there's that.
4. The fact that a Bloodthirster was destroyed by a god and another one by a Demi-God TOTALLY proves mortals can kill GD. Just because no Mortal has kill one before, ever, doesn't seem to be able to stop YOUR argument. As for the LoC only losing when Tzeentch wants them too, how could a 20 foot tall (usually, their form change. They are lords of CHANGE after all) who can destroy Baneblades with a passing thought and see into the future NOT lose each and every time right? They're just SO weak -_-
im2randomghgh wrote:I love how you only quote some parts of my arguments.
1. What does the lifespan of the galaxy have to do with it? There is only so much matter in existence. It is not like it being old means it can produce matter, which is literally impossible. Also, you can't "create" energy. It can never be made or destroyed, simply transferred and/or transformed. I assume you mean generating electricity? Energy can NOT be transformed into matter, ever. By definition your entire universe is invalid. Matter can't be destroyed either. Man, it seems like EVERY SINGLE WORD in your post is wrong.
2. It doesn't matter that the depiction is different. A daemon can appear in literally ANY form. Your puppy could be a Bloodthirster. The only ones who can't are Nurglitch Greater Daemons, who are avatars of Nurgle.
3. So guns that are specifically designed to unravel atoms at an individual level wouldn't affect an individual atom? VERY impressive argumet you've got there /sarcasm. Also, necrons can't be destroyed. So...there's that.
4. The fact that a Bloodthirster was destroyed by a god and another one by a Demi-God TOTALLY proves mortals can kill GD. Just because no Mortal has kill one before, ever, doesn't seem to be able to stop YOUR argument. As for the LoC only losing when Tzeentch wants them too, how could a 20 foot tall (usually, their form change. They are lords of CHANGE after all) who can destroy Baneblades with a passing thought and see into the future NOT lose each and every time right? They're just SO weak -_-
I quoted your entire post with all 4 of your points, if I missed something it is due to your poor formatting, then sorry? Was it a significant and awesome point, because all your other points are garbage.
1. If the Necrons have a hope of defeating chaos, then SupCom is nearly guaranteed to defeat chaos, as they have the same technological means but massively more advanced. And yes, in SupCom you can create energy in the physical universe by drawing it from subspace. Similar to how you can draw energy from the Warp in 40k.
And in SupCom, you can convert energy into matter. It's not up for debate, it's part of the setting. Just like how in 40k there is A NIGHTMARE DIMENSION OF DAEMONS AND PSYKERS AND ALIENS that do not exist in our reality. Come on man, at least try to be consistent
Honestly the fact that you are so intentionally dense to the information I am giving you is disconcerting. In SupCom you gen generate energy indefinitely and convert it into matter, and you can draw infinite energy from subspace and convert that into matter. Deal. With. It.
2. So that is why such a thing NEVER happens in 40k? Link me to one story where a puppy is a bloodthirster, and no, not from 2nd edition rogue trader inquisitor obi-wan half-eldar psyker polymorphine terminator assassin sensei land.
3. So guns that are specifically designed to unravel atoms at an individual level wouldn't affect an individual atom? VERY impressive argumet you've got there /sarcasm. Also, necrons can't be destroyed. So...there's that.
No. F for reading comprehension. Guns that unravel atoms would have more difficulty unraveling perfectly ordered atoms than normally ordered atoms with impurities. Just as a gauss flayer does not insta-kill a titan, a gauss flayer does not insta-kill something that is made of material STRONGER than a titan's. Unless you think that gauss flayers one-hit kill Imperators? That sounds like another of your "gauss flayer is unstoppable by anything so are chaos gods and greater daemons" which is patently untrue as the fluff is FULL of instances where gauss flayers do not destroy anything in one hit.
And Necrons CAN be destroyed. You blow them up, they teleport back to a tomb world. You blow up their tomb... they are destroyed. Really, anyone with a basic knowledge of 40k background would know this; you are being intentionally obtuse.
4. The fact that a Bloodthirster was destroyed by a god and another one by a Demi-God TOTALLY proves mortals can kill GD. Just because no Mortal has kill one before, ever, doesn't seem to be able to stop YOUR argument. As for the LoC only losing when Tzeentch wants them too, how could a 20 foot tall (usually, their form change. They are lords of CHANGE after all) who can destroy Baneblades with a passing thought and see into the future NOT lose each and every time right? They're just SO weak -_-
Look buddy, I am going to set this out reeeeal easy and logical like, so that you can't possibly find error with it.
It doesn't matter how strong or how many big words you use to describe a daemon's toughness. Here are the facts:
Space Marines with axes, Tau with mundane guns, Orks with fething black powder weapons and power klaws, Tyranids with CHITINOUS CLAWS AND TEETH, and Necrons with super-advanced mundane guns CAN KILL DAEMONS OF EVERY TYPE AND SCALE. This is evidenced ALL OVER THE FLUFF. If you disagree with this point, you make the assertion that no faction other than the Holy Inquisition or similar emperor or god-powered soldiers could defeat daemons, which is FALSE. You never see a 40k fluff story saying "and then the Changer of Ways destroyed the entire Tau empire because they did not have emprah-juice". Because that is unfounded and impossible.
Now, that we have proven that Daemons do in fact die to mundane means, realize that SupCom's power level is literally dozens to hundreds of times more powerful than these same mundane things that destroy Daemons and Greater Daemons for Tau, Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Space Marines.
Therefore SupCom can destroy any potential daemons.
I assume you will ignore me (the both of you). However, I will add my
2 cents, which you may find have some weight to them.
I have played 40k for 16 years and have been an avid fan of Supreme Commander.
These points are food for thought.
Supreme Commander
1. SC has limitless production (this cannot be ignored as 40k is allowed Magic)
2. SC has never mentioned much space craft but it would not be hard to create new
blueprints, especially as Cybrans. At a certain point in SC2 there is a space platform.
3. And their vehicles have no internal space, BEYOND the actually gears and weapons
they use to move and kill.
40k 1. What stops my psykers from Blood Boiling your Brain???????? and don't tell me shields ignore
everything. Because if you bring that I will bring Alpha Psyker which renders all arguments moot.
They would blow up a planet before you could even teleport away. And teleportation does take
time and charging. And is limited over distances and requires gates for interplanetary travel.
2. If ACU dies the battle is over. (End of discussion, unless you have more ACU's and then we ask
how many did you bring)
3. And don't anyone dare insult my knowledge of the warp. The main Cybran in SC2 (not the doctor)
shows emotion and personality development throughout the game, not even speaking of his charismatic
behavior near the end. So citizens have the potential however small to be affected by the warp, just like
the Tau.
Chaos in classic un-retconned info has and will infect AI (Tau have not been for plot reasons) and in SC2
you can take over enemy units so don't you dare tell me they cannot.
So there it is. I still love Supreme Commander 2 but from my take certain factions could defeat SC2 factions.
im2randomghgh wrote:I love how you only quote some parts of my arguments.
1. What does the lifespan of the galaxy have to do with it? There is only so much matter in existence. It is not like it being old means it can produce matter, which is literally impossible. Also, you can't "create" energy. It can never be made or destroyed, simply transferred and/or transformed. I assume you mean generating electricity? Energy can NOT be transformed into matter, ever. By definition your entire universe is invalid. Matter can't be destroyed either. Man, it seems like EVERY SINGLE WORD in your post is wrong.
2. It doesn't matter that the depiction is different. A daemon can appear in literally ANY form. Your puppy could be a Bloodthirster. The only ones who can't are Nurglitch Greater Daemons, who are avatars of Nurgle.
3. So guns that are specifically designed to unravel atoms at an individual level wouldn't affect an individual atom? VERY impressive argumet you've got there /sarcasm. Also, necrons can't be destroyed. So...there's that.
4. The fact that a Bloodthirster was destroyed by a god and another one by a Demi-God TOTALLY proves mortals can kill GD. Just because no Mortal has kill one before, ever, doesn't seem to be able to stop YOUR argument. As for the LoC only losing when Tzeentch wants them too, how could a 20 foot tall (usually, their form change. They are lords of CHANGE after all) who can destroy Baneblades with a passing thought and see into the future NOT lose each and every time right? They're just SO weak -_-
I quoted your entire post with all 4 of your points, if I missed something it is due to your poor formatting, then sorry? Was it a significant and awesome point, because all your other points are garbage.
1. If the Necrons have a hope of defeating chaos, then SupCom is nearly guaranteed to defeat chaos, as they have the same technological means but massively more advanced. And yes, in SupCom you can create energy in the physical universe by drawing it from subspace. Similar to how you can draw energy from the Warp in 40k.
And in SupCom, you can convert energy into matter. It's not up for debate, it's part of the setting. Just like how in 40k there is A NIGHTMARE DIMENSION OF DAEMONS AND PSYKERS AND ALIENS that do not exist in our reality. Come on man, at least try to be consistent
Honestly the fact that you are so intentionally dense to the information I am giving you is disconcerting. In SupCom you gen generate energy indefinitely and convert it into matter, and you can draw infinite energy from subspace and convert that into matter. Deal. With. It.
2. So that is why such a thing NEVER happens in 40k? Link me to one story where a puppy is a bloodthirster, and no, not from 2nd edition rogue trader inquisitor obi-wan half-eldar psyker polymorphine terminator assassin sensei land.
3. So guns that are specifically designed to unravel atoms at an individual level wouldn't affect an individual atom? VERY impressive argumet you've got there /sarcasm. Also, necrons can't be destroyed. So...there's that.
No. F for reading comprehension. Guns that unravel atoms would have more difficulty unraveling perfectly ordered atoms than normally ordered atoms with impurities. Just as a gauss flayer does not insta-kill a titan, a gauss flayer does not insta-kill something that is made of material STRONGER than a titan's. Unless you think that gauss flayers one-hit kill Imperators? That sounds like another of your "gauss flayer is unstoppable by anything so are chaos gods and greater daemons" which is patently untrue as the fluff is FULL of instances where gauss flayers do not destroy anything in one hit.
And Necrons CAN be destroyed. You blow them up, they teleport back to a tomb world. You blow up their tomb... they are destroyed. Really, anyone with a basic knowledge of 40k background would know this; you are being intentionally obtuse.
4. The fact that a Bloodthirster was destroyed by a god and another one by a Demi-God TOTALLY proves mortals can kill GD. Just because no Mortal has kill one before, ever, doesn't seem to be able to stop YOUR argument. As for the LoC only losing when Tzeentch wants them too, how could a 20 foot tall (usually, their form change. They are lords of CHANGE after all) who can destroy Baneblades with a passing thought and see into the future NOT lose each and every time right? They're just SO weak -_-
Look buddy, I am going to set this out reeeeal easy and logical like, so that you can't possibly find error with it.
It doesn't matter how strong or how many big words you use to describe a daemon's toughness. Here are the facts:
Space Marines with axes, Tau with mundane guns, Orks with fething black powder weapons and power klaws, Tyranids with CHITINOUS CLAWS AND TEETH, and Necrons with super-advanced mundane guns CAN KILL DAEMONS OF EVERY TYPE AND SCALE. This is evidenced ALL OVER THE FLUFF. If you disagree with this point, you make the assertion that no faction other than the Holy Inquisition or similar emperor or god-powered soldiers could defeat daemons, which is FALSE. You never see a 40k fluff story saying "and then the Changer of Ways destroyed the entire Tau empire because they did not have emprah-juice". Because that is unfounded and impossible.
Now, that we have proven that Daemons do in fact die to mundane means, realize that SupCom's power level is literally dozens to hundreds of times more powerful than these same mundane things that destroy Daemons and Greater Daemons for Tau, Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Space Marines.
Therefore SupCom can destroy any potential daemons.
0. So MY arguments, which are numbered orderly, are not orderly enough for you, who just types up blurts of text?
1. Let's start at the bottom and work our way up. How do we know the Pylons were going to work? How do we know even the Necrons, whose tech is superior, could re-make them? How do we know they can even be operated by any other than a C'tan?
And the difference between 40k and SupCom, is that 40k is well thought-out and tries to explain these things. SupCom doesn't, so until I get an explanation of how they do something so fundamentally impossible I won't accept it. It is ACTUALLY impossible, in a fundamental way. It is "impossible" for me to shoot fireballs out of my hand, in so far as I can say with certainty it won't happen. However, if for no reason the molecules decided to start rubbing against each other, it could happen. However,matter turning into energy is the single most impossible thing I could possibly imagine. There is matter, and there is energy, those are what make up the universe. It begins and ends there. If you can find a quote explaining it, okay. Till then.
2. As I said, it is a choice of form. A Bloodthirster would never choose to appear as a puppy, but it could. And you don't accept canon from the second rule book of 40k? And I'M inconsistent. Tut tut. Plus, It was demonstrated that the daemon Spear could manipulate his form.
3. You blow up a tomb, they reform at the nearest Tomb. And it bears no parallels to hitting an Imperator because it is ONE ATOM. You seem incapable of processing this. An Imperator is uncounted billions of atoms. These SupCom constructs are literally the IDEAL target for a gauss weapon.
4. You need to process this. Literally every time one of the four daemon lords has been summoned, the world where they spawned has been conquered and made into a daemon world. The ONLY exception was when An'ggrath was summoned on Vraks, because there happened to be an Inquisitor Lord and 100 Grey Knights there.
And when, Praytell, has a greater Daemon been kiled by pulse rifles?
And the reason you don't see stories like that is that daemon don't CARE about tau very lot, because their emotions don't register in any meaningful way in the warp.
And of all those races at the end, the only one I can remember ever destroying daemons was the space marines.
I assume you will ignore me (the both of you). However, I will add my
2 cents, which you may find have some weight to them.
I have played 40k for 16 years and have been an avid fan of Supreme Commander.
These points are food for thought.
Supreme Commander
1. SC has limitless production (this cannot be ignored as 40k is allowed Magic)
2. SC has never mentioned much space craft but it would not be hard to create new
blueprints, especially as Cybrans. At a certain point in SC2 there is a space platform.
3. And their vehicles have no internal space, BEYOND the actually gears and weapons
they use to move and kill.
40k 1. What stops my psykers from Blood Boiling your Brain???????? and don't tell me shields ignore
everything. Because if you bring that I will bring Alpha Psyker which renders all arguments moot.
They would blow up a planet before you could even teleport away. And teleportation does take
time and charging. And is limited over distances and requires gates for interplanetary travel.
2. If ACU dies the battle is over. (End of discussion, unless you have more ACU's and then we ask
how many did you bring)
3. And don't anyone dare insult my knowledge of the warp. The main Cybran in SC2 (not the doctor)
shows emotion and personality development throughout the game, not even speaking of his charismatic
behavior near the end. So citizens have the potential however small to be affected by the warp, just like
the Tau.
Chaos in classic un-retconned info has and will infect AI (Tau have not been for plot reasons) and in SC2
you can take over enemy units so don't you dare tell me they cannot.
So there it is. I still love Supreme Commander 2 but from my take certain factions could defeat SC2 factions.
No that pretty much sums it up.
Bring an Alpha Psyker and it's done.
And there would be more alpha psykers in 40k than ACUs so...
How many ACUs do you think there are. More impotent how many alpha levels are there?
Edit: You know here is what is making my head hurt. You have an army that can magically summon limitless titan sized robots in a a span of hours and they can't beat the IoM. You know how stupidly powerful that makes the IoM. A side who losing to armies who can't summon titans from the thin air. It makes my logic hurt.
nomotog wrote:How many ACUs do you think there are. More impotent how many alpha levels are there?
Edit: You know here is what is making my head hurt. You have an army that can magically summon limitless titan sized robots in a a span of hours and they can't beat the IoM. You know how stupidly powerful that makes the IoM. A side who losing to armies who can't summon titans from the thin air. It makes my logic hurt.
Here is what i dont understand from warhammer side's argument. They make claims they have psyker with god like powers that can annihilate everything just by thinking about it.
Yet where are they in all the battles? infact why have Space Marines or Guards at all? There must be something thats stopping them from winning in a flash.
Then we have Subcom side's argument. The exponential growth, and manufacturing that produces units equivalent to 40k Titans at speed and numbers of Termagaunts been squeezed out. Eating up worlds and stripping everything in a planet within 10 hours, sure gives Tyranid's biomass harvest a run for their money.
ACU isn't limited to one either, they can be created like termagants too.
Yet the only thing that's halting the argument is the "magic" that Chaos and God Emperor posses.
Ya I'm well versed on magic, so i have been mostly staying out of that. There must be ways to kill demons/pyskers with guns though. I mean tau have fought demons and won.
nomotog wrote:Ya I'm well versed on magic, so i have been mostly staying out of that. There must be ways to kill demons/pyskers with guns though. I mean tau have fought demons and won.
Not according to im2randomghgh. He likes to stick to his guns that daemons and psykers are absolutely 100% invincible to mundane means, ignoring the fact that most of the factions in 40k are in fact, mundane.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:1. Let's start at the bottom and work our way up. How do we know the Pylons were going to work? How do we know even the Necrons, whose tech is superior, could re-make them? How do we know they can even be operated by any other than a C'tan?
C'tan may be energy beings, but they are only of this physical universe, therefore anything they do can be replicated with sufficiently advanced technology.
im2randomghgh wrote:And the difference between 40k and SupCom, is that 40k is well thought-out and tries to explain these things. SupCom doesn't, so until I get an explanation of how they do something so fundamentally impossible I won't accept it. It is ACTUALLY impossible, in a fundamental way. It is "impossible" for me to shoot fireballs out of my hand, in so far as I can say with certainty it won't happen. However, if for no reason the molecules decided to start rubbing against each other, it could happen. However,matter turning into energy is the single most impossible thing I could possibly imagine. There is matter, and there is energy, those are what make up the universe. It begins and ends there. If you can find a quote explaining it, okay. Till then.
Uhhhh.... lol. If you don't think that mass and energy can be equated with each other, you obviously know almost nothing about science. Albert Einstein would slap you for your ignorance. Just because modern science can't yet turn mass into energy or vice versa, does not mean it is impossible, or even if it were, does not mean that it would be implausible. In short: you ignant
2. As I said, it is a choice of form. A Bloodthirster would never choose to appear as a puppy, but it could. And you don't accept canon from the second rule book of 40k? And I'M inconsistent. Tut tut. Plus, It was demonstrated that the daemon Spear could manipulate his form.
Rogue Trader is for the largest part non-canon. If you debate that, you weaken your argument. Greater Daemons are 99% always depicted as having consistent favored forms, and even when/if they change forms, it cannot increase their power, otherwise they would do that ALWASY. See, logic?
3. You blow up a tomb, they reform at the nearest Tomb. And it bears no parallels to hitting an Imperator because it is ONE ATOM. You seem incapable of processing this. An Imperator is uncounted billions of atoms. These SupCom constructs are literally the IDEAL target for a gauss weapon.
What the feth, you think that SupCom units are made of ONE ATOM? Are you insane? Where are you man. Stop making gak up. A SupCom siege assault bot is the size of an Imperator, but with denser and stronger material, and massively increased top speed and maneuverability. SupCom units are vastly more resilient.
4. You need to process this. Literally every time one of the four daemon lords has been summoned, the world where they spawned has been conquered and made into a daemon world. The ONLY exception was when An'ggrath was summoned on Vraks, because there happened to be an Inquisitor Lord and 100 Grey Knights there.
Sure, except for Sanguinius literally breaking a Bloodthirster's back over his KNEE. Not his psychic knee, not banishing him, literally HITTING HIM WITH HIS POWER ARMORED KNEE. Most of the named Greater Daemons on lexicanum describe their machinations, but only a few mention them taking over entire worlds. One particular KoS was destroyed by lance orbital strikes.
AND, AND, even IF every single time a Greater Daemon has been summoned, WHO CARES? It's the Imperium. If every time the Imperium had a Greater Daemon summoned in their face, they could press a button and summon 10,000 Imperator Titans, you had better fething believe the IoM would not have a Daemon problem.
And when, Praytell, has a greater Daemon been kiled by pulse rifles?
And the reason you don't see stories like that is that daemon don't CARE about tau very lot, because their emotions don't register in any meaningful way in the warp.
And of all those races at the end, the only one I can remember ever destroying daemons was the space marines.
Nothing is proven.
Read the Ork codex. Or the Nid codex. Or the IG codex. Every single codex has stories of fighting against Daemons.
And seeing as you had no rebuttal for my logical progress of daemon destruction, I accept your concession that you cannot find issue with it. Bear in mind that "you can't PROVE that anyone ever died when all those races regularly fought Daemons" is not a valid argument.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunaHound wrote:Here is what i dont understand from warhammer side's argument. They make claims they have psyker with god like powers that can annihilate everything just by thinking about it. Yet where are they in all the battles? infact why have Space Marines or Guards at all? There must be something thats stopping them from winning in a flash.
Then we have Subcom side's argument. The exponential growth, and manufacturing that produces units equivalent to 40k Titans at speed and numbers of Termagaunts been squeezed out. Eating up worlds and stripping everything in a planet within 10 hours, sure gives Tyranid's biomass harvest a run for their money. ACU isn't limited to one either, they can be created like termagants too.
Yet the only thing that's halting the argument is the "magic" that Chaos and God Emperor posses.
It is totally illogical. People argue that psykers and daemons make the 40k universe proof against legions of Imperator+ power armies with the ability to teleport between worlds, but at the same time the 40k universe loses against Orks and traitor Guardsmen and Tyranids.
Total nonsense.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:And there would be more alpha psykers in 40k than ACUs so...
This is also false. The Imperium and organized chaos forces control zero known active alpha psykers. The UEF, Aeon, Seraphim, and Cybran each control at least a half dozen ACUs..... and they have the knowledge necessary to produce more in all out war.
I think there is a misconception with the "rarity" of ACUs by 40k side...
ACU are only "rare" in the sense that there is one needed per planet.
Its not that they cant afford to send more...
Rather, whats the point of sending more if all it take is 1 to completely dominate and drain a planet in 10 hours?
And warhammer is also using the golden ages of warhammer's power in their argument.
I think to be fair we should advance the time line alittle.... and introduce Core and Arms.
The Core and The Arm literally EXHAUSTED the resources of their entire GALAXY in their conflict. They are moderately more powerful than even the UEF, Cybran, Aeon, and Seraphim, and have the power to literally implode the galaxy. It would be unfair.
EDIT: However to the UEF, Cyb, Aeon, and Seraph's credits, TA units were slightly smaller and there was only ever one Commander.
LunaHound wrote:Did they sort of double K.O each other and exhausted every last drop to jump to a new galaxy?
No, they fought for thousands of years and had an epic showdown. In the Core ending you implode the Galaxy. In the Arm ending you stop the Core and humanity survives.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Whats the Core and Arm?
Are they from SC?
Different game. A real close relation though. Both have commanders who can build giant armies of giant robots from basically magic. Only difference is SC has more story and bigger robots.
nomotog wrote:Ya I'm well versed on magic, so i have been mostly staying out of that. There must be ways to kill demons/pyskers with guns though. I mean tau have fought demons and won.
Not according to im2randomghgh. He likes to stick to his guns that daemons and psykers are absolutely 100% invincible to mundane means, ignoring the fact that most of the factions in 40k are in fact, mundane.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:1. Let's start at the bottom and work our way up. How do we know the Pylons were going to work? How do we know even the Necrons, whose tech is superior, could re-make them? How do we know they can even be operated by any other than a C'tan?
C'tan may be energy beings, but they are only of this physical universe, therefore anything they do can be replicated with sufficiently advanced technology.
im2randomghgh wrote:And the difference between 40k and SupCom, is that 40k is well thought-out and tries to explain these things. SupCom doesn't, so until I get an explanation of how they do something so fundamentally impossible I won't accept it. It is ACTUALLY impossible, in a fundamental way. It is "impossible" for me to shoot fireballs out of my hand, in so far as I can say with certainty it won't happen. However, if for no reason the molecules decided to start rubbing against each other, it could happen. However,matter turning into energy is the single most impossible thing I could possibly imagine. There is matter, and there is energy, those are what make up the universe. It begins and ends there. If you can find a quote explaining it, okay. Till then.
Uhhhh.... lol. If you don't think that mass and energy can be equated with each other, you obviously know almost nothing about science. Albert Einstein would slap you for your ignorance. Just because modern science can't yet turn mass into energy or vice versa, does not mean it is impossible, or even if it were, does not mean that it would be implausible. In short: you ignant
2. As I said, it is a choice of form. A Bloodthirster would never choose to appear as a puppy, but it could. And you don't accept canon from the second rule book of 40k? And I'M inconsistent. Tut tut. Plus, It was demonstrated that the daemon Spear could manipulate his form.
Rogue Trader is for the largest part non-canon. If you debate that, you weaken your argument. Greater Daemons are 99% always depicted as having consistent favored forms, and even when/if they change forms, it cannot increase their power, otherwise they would do that ALWASY. See, logic?
3. You blow up a tomb, they reform at the nearest Tomb. And it bears no parallels to hitting an Imperator because it is ONE ATOM. You seem incapable of processing this. An Imperator is uncounted billions of atoms. These SupCom constructs are literally the IDEAL target for a gauss weapon.
What the feth, you think that SupCom units are made of ONE ATOM? Are you insane? Where are you man. Stop making gak up. A SupCom siege assault bot is the size of an Imperator, but with denser and stronger material, and massively increased top speed and maneuverability. SupCom units are vastly more resilient.
4. You need to process this. Literally every time one of the four daemon lords has been summoned, the world where they spawned has been conquered and made into a daemon world. The ONLY exception was when An'ggrath was summoned on Vraks, because there happened to be an Inquisitor Lord and 100 Grey Knights there.
Sure, except for Sanguinius literally breaking a Bloodthirster's back over his KNEE. Not his psychic knee, not banishing him, literally HITTING HIM WITH HIS POWER ARMORED KNEE. Most of the named Greater Daemons on lexicanum describe their machinations, but only a few mention them taking over entire worlds. One particular KoS was destroyed by lance orbital strikes.
AND, AND, even IF every single time a Greater Daemon has been summoned, WHO CARES? It's the Imperium. If every time the Imperium had a Greater Daemon summoned in their face, they could press a button and summon 10,000 Imperator Titans, you had better fething believe the IoM would not have a Daemon problem.
And when, Praytell, has a greater Daemon been kiled by pulse rifles?
And the reason you don't see stories like that is that daemon don't CARE about tau very lot, because their emotions don't register in any meaningful way in the warp.
And of all those races at the end, the only one I can remember ever destroying daemons was the space marines.
Nothing is proven.
Read the Ork codex. Or the Nid codex. Or the IG codex. Every single codex has stories of fighting against Daemons.
And seeing as you had no rebuttal for my logical progress of daemon destruction, I accept your concession that you cannot find issue with it. Bear in mind that "you can't PROVE that anyone ever died when all those races regularly fought Daemons" is not a valid argument.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunaHound wrote:Here is what i dont understand from warhammer side's argument. They make claims they have psyker with god like powers that can annihilate everything just by thinking about it.
Yet where are they in all the battles? infact why have Space Marines or Guards at all? There must be something thats stopping them from winning in a flash.
Then we have Subcom side's argument. The exponential growth, and manufacturing that produces units equivalent to 40k Titans at speed and numbers of Termagaunts been squeezed out. Eating up worlds and stripping everything in a planet within 10 hours, sure gives Tyranid's biomass harvest a run for their money.
ACU isn't limited to one either, they can be created like termagants too.
Yet the only thing that's halting the argument is the "magic" that Chaos and God Emperor posses.
It is totally illogical. People argue that psykers and daemons make the 40k universe proof against legions of Imperator+ power armies with the ability to teleport between worlds, but at the same time the 40k universe loses against Orks and traitor Guardsmen and Tyranids.
Total nonsense.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:And there would be more alpha psykers in 40k than ACUs so...
This is also false. The Imperium and organized chaos forces control zero known active alpha psykers. The UEF, Aeon, Seraphim, and Cybran each control at least a half dozen ACUs..... and they have the knowledge necessary to produce more in all out war.
1. Guns CAN kill daemons. Just not Greater Daemons. And psykers, it depends on their power level. Alpha+ Simply cannot lose in open combat. You have to trick and capture them.
2. Not necessarily. By definition, you cannot imagine what the thoughts of a God would be like, or any other creature. They might have developed a non-replaceable method of firing them that the Human mind cannot fathom at any capacity. Technology does NOT influence your intelligence.
3. They have a correlation. They just aren't the same thing. They work well together (see:life) but aren't the same thing. At all. Look at it this way: Riverbed+Water=River. Water =/= riverbed. Add to that the fact the speed of light isn't the universal speed limit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484) And Einstein was just plain wrong. Either way, there is nothing more different in the entirety of the universe than matter and energy.
4. Exactly. It doesn't increase their power. But that they could be 100x the height of your robots and just toss them about, but have all that kick-ass condensed into one 30 foot tall monstrosity just goes to show how powerful they are. And they have a favoured form because, guess what? It is their FAVOURED form.
5. Well that says nothing about the four daemon lords so I'll assume you realise I won that point. And Sanguinius, who is kinda sorta a minor GOD, banished a daemon?!?!?! Shocking -_-.
And their problem wouldn't be with daemons, it would be with having 5000 of their machines turn traitor every time. Or god forbid, their titans possessed by Greater Daemons! You REALLY haven't been factoring in the fact that half their machines/ACUs/SupCom WILL betray them every time they fight Chaos. Also, if their machines are made form converting the soil beneath them, then you have to factor in the tainted soil on daemon worlds. The planets themselves bear taint.
6. Destroying Greater Daemons that is, I just realised that I only wrote daemons. But no, there is zero precedent for GD falling to shoota boyz, pulse rifle etc. And IG codex doesn't have stories of the fighting daemons, it has stories of them being culled.
And Zero? Tigurius, Mephiston, Njal, Sarpedon are all Alpha level psykers, as is Gideon Ravenor. In fact the instance of Alpha psykers is one to one billion, meaning there are actually quite a few Alpha Level Psykers. As for Chaos, they have Magnus, Ahriman etc. and LoC, KoS are also all Alpha psykers (With Magnus and LoC being Alpha+ rather than Alpha)
SC has no answer for warp. They don't know what it is...Jettison the warp drives! FULL POWER! FOR THE EMPEROR!!! Create mini-warp storm. Banish SC to warp without the relative safety of gellar fields Sacrifice a few battle ships. Really, that's what I think the Imperium would do if they encountered SC on one world, pretty quickly...Considering their fo-science magic super no weakness we win power. Warlord titans every second? Made from dirt somehow (Scientific impossibility, you're looking at Alchemy on steroids here)
nomotog wrote:Doesn't firewarror have a greater Daemon being killed by the tau?
It was later stated that said Firewarrior was receiving some "help" from Khorne.
That explains it. Kind of. Though it dose bring up something that no one has talked about yet. An ACU falling to chaos. Given how often they seem to betray each other, you would quickly have at least a few ACUs switching ides and going blood for the blood god. That would quickly turn 40k inot Chaos ACU, Vs normal ACU. (Every other side dieing or linking up with another ACU.)
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Whats the Core and Arm?
Are they from SC?
Core and Arm are what happend after SC. They are the legacy of what is Cybran and UEF
There are no more politics ( not even human beings anymore ), their only goal is just to wipe the other.
These are the guys that jumps onto a planet, strip all the matter and energy, and have literally millions of warhammer equivalent Titans ready for war / another gate jump within 10 hours.
The "Commanders" Are just a fancy name for a Mech that is a combination of weapon + constructor. They send 1 of these per planet, its all that is needed as they expand exponentially like a virus.
Only machines with Machine Spirits rather than true programming and AI can be taken over by Machine Spirits.
Incorrect. Any pocket-cogitator can be possessed by malignant spirits in order to compute Chaotic engrams and Heretical mathematics. This was a major plot point of the Ravenor series.
An obvious example is the Tau. Do their machines get possessed out of the blue all over the place, rendering them unable to function? No. That in fact never happens. SupCom machinery would be totally safe.
GW has not yet written a Chaos-Meets-Tau story that involved such a thing. This does not make the situation impossible.
As the possibilities of Chaos are infinite, and their ultimate victory inevitable, provide evidence that Tau technology is not subject to Warp influence.
Only machines with Machine Spirits rather than true programming and AI can be taken over by Machine Spirits.
Incorrect. Any pocket-cogitator can be possessed by malignant spirits in order to compute Chaotic engrams and Heretical mathematics. This was a major plot point of the Ravenor series.
An obvious example is the Tau. Do their machines get possessed out of the blue all over the place, rendering them unable to function? No. That in fact never happens. SupCom machinery would be totally safe.
GW has not yet written a Chaos-Meets-Tau story that involved such a thing. This does not make the situation impossible.
As the possibilities of Chaos are infinite, and their ultimate victory inevitable, provide evidence that Tau technology is not subject to Warp influence.
Right, all cogitators are based on STC.
And as Tau have encountered Chaos, if their technology was corruptable we would know it. Pro Tip: It isn't, just like ork technology isn't, and kroot technology isn't, etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:1. Guns CAN kill daemons. Just not Greater Daemons. And psykers, it depends on their power level. Alpha+ Simply cannot lose in open combat. You have to trick and capture them.
2. Not necessarily. By definition, you cannot imagine what the thoughts of a God would be like, or any other creature. They might have developed a non-replaceable method of firing them that the Human mind cannot fathom at any capacity. Technology does NOT influence your intelligence.
3. They have a correlation. They just aren't the same thing. They work well together (see:life) but aren't the same thing. At all. Look at it this way: Riverbed+Water=River. Water =/= riverbed. Add to that the fact the speed of light isn't the universal speed limit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484) And Einstein was just plain wrong. Either way, there is nothing more different in the entirety of the universe than matter and energy.
4. Exactly. It doesn't increase their power. But that they could be 100x the height of your robots and just toss them about, but have all that kick-ass condensed into one 30 foot tall monstrosity just goes to show how powerful they are. And they have a favoured form because, guess what? It is their FAVOURED form.
5. Well that says nothing about the four daemon lords so I'll assume you realise I won that point. And Sanguinius, who is kinda sorta a minor GOD, banished a daemon?!?!?! Shocking -_-.
And their problem wouldn't be with daemons, it would be with having 5000 of their machines turn traitor every time. Or god forbid, their titans possessed by Greater Daemons! You REALLY haven't been factoring in the fact that half their machines/ACUs/SupCom WILL betray them every time they fight Chaos. Also, if their machines are made form converting the soil beneath them, then you have to factor in the tainted soil on daemon worlds. The planets themselves bear taint.
6. Destroying Greater Daemons that is, I just realised that I only wrote daemons. But no, there is zero precedent for GD falling to shoota boyz, pulse rifle etc. And IG codex doesn't have stories of the fighting daemons, it has stories of them being culled.
And Zero? Tigurius, Mephiston, Njal, Sarpedon are all Alpha level psykers, as is Gideon Ravenor. In fact the instance of Alpha psykers is one to one billion, meaning there are actually quite a few Alpha Level Psykers. As for Chaos, they have Magnus, Ahriman etc. and LoC, KoS are also all Alpha psykers (With Magnus and LoC being Alpha+ rather than Alpha)
1. Yes they can. You keep saying they can't be killed by mundane means, but they can. Orks have killed greater daemons. Nids have killed greater daemons. IG have killed greater daemons. If greater daemons were 100% proof against every race but Inquisition, they would no longer exist.
2. They are mundane, that is to say of the physical universe. Their powers can be replicated by definition.
3. I am in fact aware of the lightspeed not being the limit... and that in fact SUPPORTS ME. Our knowledge of the universe is always evolving. Perfect matter control and energy-matter transfer is scientifically plausible. Everything is made of waves, or strings, both matter and energy both.
4. And yet they can be killed by being cut in half by a non-psyker Chapter Master. And killed by orbital bombardment. And killed by orks punches. And nids. Etc.
A 166m tall warmachine can kill one if orks can kill one.
5. Sanguinius was a MAN, a genetically modified man, who beat a bloodthirster WITH HIS POWER ARMORED KNEE. If a KNEE can beat a bloodthirster, a 166m tall warmachine can step on a bloodthirster.
6. Yes, there is, unless you assume that the only time greater daemons are summoned is against the IoM, and all the art in the daemons book shows the daemons winning with 0% greater daemon loss, which is flat out wrong.
7. None of those psykers are Alpha+. They are Beta/Alpha, and as you can see by the playable ones you listed, DEFINITELY NOT CAPABLE OF DEFEATING A SUPCOM. The fact that you listed in game characters with clearly defined power scales, ALL OF WHOM LOSE IN A FIGHT TO A TITAN, helps my point even more greatly. Thanks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Earth001 wrote:Wow... I have been gone for several days and come back and look at what this thread has turned into. Sheesh.
Yeah, basically im2randomghgh is the only person who still thinks that 40k winning is defensible. He will fail soon enough.
ph34r, I just have to say man, bravo. You are a champ fighting for SC for, oh, 9 pages worth of thread now. Everyday I come back and hope that you have shown everyone the light, but alas, tis not happened yet.
Only machines with Machine Spirits rather than true programming and AI can be taken over by Machine Spirits.
Incorrect. Any pocket-cogitator can be possessed by malignant spirits in order to compute Chaotic engrams and Heretical mathematics. This was a major plot point of the Ravenor series.
An obvious example is the Tau. Do their machines get possessed out of the blue all over the place, rendering them unable to function? No. That in fact never happens. SupCom machinery would be totally safe.
GW has not yet written a Chaos-Meets-Tau story that involved such a thing. This does not make the situation impossible.
As the possibilities of Chaos are infinite, and their ultimate victory inevitable, provide evidence that Tau technology is not subject to Warp influence.
Right, all cogitators are based on STC.
And as Tau have encountered Chaos, if their technology was corruptable we would know it. Pro Tip: It isn't, just like ork technology isn't, and kroot technology isn't, etc.
I am sorry, but after reading this, I just stopped. I am not even going to bother reading the rest at this point.
You were saying kroot tech isn't corruptible and I LOL'd. They use black powder firearms. Basically, muskets.
How am I supposed to take anything else seriously? You, sir, just gave me a big goofy grin
im2randomghgh wrote:I am sorry, but after reading this, I just stopped. I am not even going to bother reading the rest at this point.
You were saying kroot tech isn't corruptible and I LOL'd. They use black powder firearms. Basically, muskets.
How am I supposed to take anything else seriously? You, sir, just gave me a big goofy grin
Kroot have pulse-ammunition that the Tau gave them to put in their old tech rifles.
But hey, if you can't counter the tried and true Orks > Daemons, SupCom >> Orks, -> SupCom >> Daemons, then you probably would want to not try to reply, huh. I feel you man. Give up?
Lt. Coldfire wrote:This depends entirely on which side Chuck Norris is on.
Chuck Norris=Ferrus manus. Because he has balls of steel.
Speaking of balls of steel, Marneus Calgar killed an Avatar by punching it to death.
Avatars are fluffwise daemons, specifically greater daemons of Khaela Mensha Khaine.
In fact, Avatars have been punk'd so many times throughout 40k history it's not even funny any more. I think that should put to rest the "Greater Daemons are 100% immune to being killed ever except GK" theory.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and here.
This puts your argument to rest. Forever. Source: Chapter Approved 2003, the first rules for the Death Korps of Krieg.
DKOK destroys a greater daemon by blowing up their own Leman Russ. 100% confirmed.
Lt. Coldfire wrote:This depends entirely on which side Chuck Norris is on.
Chuck Norris=Ferrus manus. Because he has balls of steel.
Speaking of balls of steel, Marneus Calgar killed an Avatar by punching it to death.
Avatars are fluffwise daemons, specifically greater daemons of Khaela Mensha Khaine.
In fact, Avatars have been punk'd so many times throughout 40k history it's not even funny any more. I think that should put to rest the "Greater Daemons are 100% immune to being killed ever except GK" theory.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and here.
This puts your argument to rest. Forever. Source: Chapter Approved 2003, the first rules for the Death Korps of Krieg.
DKOK destroys a greater daemon by blowing up their own Leman Russ. 100% confirmed.
When you said Avatar this immediately popped in my mind.
im2randomghgh wrote:I am sorry, but after reading this, I just stopped. I am not even going to bother reading the rest at this point.
You were saying kroot tech isn't corruptible and I LOL'd. They use black powder firearms. Basically, muskets.
How am I supposed to take anything else seriously? You, sir, just gave me a big goofy grin
Kroot have pulse-ammunition that the Tau gave them to put in their old tech rifles.
But hey, if you can't counter the tried and true Orks > Daemons, SupCom >> Orks, -> SupCom >> Daemons, then you probably would want to not try to reply, huh. I feel you man. Give up?
I give up on trying to convince someone as stubborn as you, not on 40k winning.
Their guns were eventually upgraded for pulse rounds, meaning it is Tau tech. The weapons made by the kroot, were muskets.
Greater daemons>Orks (though they fight quite rarely) Greater daemons>SupCom
Also, the second you mentioned The fact that each of the factions in your universe only have a half dozen ACUs at best, I caught on to your trolling.
His point was if Tau or Imperial Guards can kill a Greater Daemon with fire power alone ( its clear without MAGIC ),
then supcom can do it as their fire power are hundred times greater then what killed the Greater Daemon.
And also, half a dozen ACU was in another story. We have moved past that when you guys insisted on using magic in your debate.
Forget Supcom, its Core and Arm time, you guys can play with bigger toys, its about time we do too ;')
And i noticed you have been purposely ignoring a few points from the debate,
so im going to call you out right now and insist you respond to it :'P
a) If there is a faction in 40k universe, that can eat a planet and regurgitate them out in the form of an army within 10 hours,
per commander which is per planet , and then jump to where ever the fight was. What faction minus the magic users stands a chance?
b) And mind you the weakest of these are Titan sized with armor held together by force field that binds all the matter together, cannot be crippled or anything till
the force field collapses. Each firing 100 plasma cannon shots ( 40k equivalent ) per arm ( not the faction, but machine gun arm ) per minute. All while they run around en masses as numerous as your typical Cadian Soldiers with flash lights.
im2randomghgh wrote:I am sorry, but after reading this, I just stopped. I am not even going to bother reading the rest at this point.
You were saying kroot tech isn't corruptible and I LOL'd. They use black powder firearms. Basically, muskets.
How am I supposed to take anything else seriously? You, sir, just gave me a big goofy grin
Kroot have pulse-ammunition that the Tau gave them to put in their old tech rifles.
But hey, if you can't counter the tried and true Orks > Daemons, SupCom >> Orks, -> SupCom >> Daemons, then you probably would want to not try to reply, huh. I feel you man. Give up?
I give up on trying to convince someone as stubborn as you, not on 40k winning.
Their guns were eventually upgraded for pulse rounds, meaning it is Tau tech. The weapons made by the kroot, were muskets.
Greater daemons>Orks (though they fight quite rarely) Greater daemons>SupCom
Also, the second you mentioned The fact that each of the factions in your universe only have a half dozen ACUs at best, I caught on to your trolling.
His point was if Tau or Imperial Guards can kill a Greater Daemon with fire power alone ( its clear without MAGIC ),
then supcom can do it as their fire power are hundred times greater then what killed the Greater Daemon.
And also, half a dozen ACU was in another story. We have moved past that when you guys insisted on using magic in your debate.
Forget Supcom, its Core and Arm time, you guys can play with bigger toys, its about time we do too ;')
And i noticed you have been purposely ignoring a few points from the debate,
so im going to call you out right now and insist you respond to it :'P
a) If there is a faction in 40k universe, that can eat a planet and regurgitate them out in the form of an army within 10 hours,
per commander which is per planet , and then jump to where ever the fight was. What faction minus the magic users stands a chance?
b) And mind you the weakest of these are Titan sized with armor held together by force field that binds all the matter together, cannot be crippled or anything till
the force field collapses. Each firing 100 plasma cannon shots ( 40k equivalent ) per arm ( not the faction, but machine gun arm ) per minute. All while they run around en masses as numerous as your typical Cadian Soldiers with flash lights.
And my point was that I don't recall Tau ever actually killing a GD. And usually when the Guard is faced with a GD, they get culled and then call in the legions of demi-gods or GK or Inquisition.
im2randomghgh wrote:
And my point was that I don't recall Tau ever actually killing a GD. And usually when the Guard is faced with a GD, they get culled and then call in the legions of demi-gods or GK or Inquisition.
Would you say the shells the Leman Russ had was blessed shells or normal IG shells?
I just read through 95-99% of this thread and i couldn't stop laughing. You're arguing about a hypothetical situation involving 2 fictional universes, do you hav any idea how asinine that is. Now i'll provide my 2 cents lol Some background info first, i've been playin 40k for about 7 years(CSM and startin DE) and about the only thing i know about SupCom is wat i've read in this thread
1. SupCom has superior tech, edge
2. SupCom has the ability to create energy/matter and use one to create the other, edge
3. SupCom are basically techno nids to the 10th power
4. SupCom can teleport from planet to planet
5. Both universes defy the laws of physics, why even bring it up in a sci-fi argument, that's why it's sci-fi for sake
6. 40k has magic/warp, edge
7. Yes in theory a spoon could kill a greater daemons physical form, but he's just sent back to the warp to be summoned later... so bascially they never die, edge
8. 40k has lots of space bound vessels wielding planet killing weapons vs a mostly planet bound enemy, edge
9. Chaos Gods have the means to destroy all life, but they're not dumb enough to kill off their food source, so i'm pretty sure that they'd open some whoop on SupCom if they were to threaten their food source, edge
10. All in all no one wins, universe goes boom, everyone dies... except the DE who are laughin their off as the whole thing goes down while they're safe in their webway, kind of like how i am right now... especially if you bring in Core and Arms
That's wat i think, take as you will
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:I just read through 95-99% of this thread and i couldn't stop laughing. You're arguing about a hypothetical situation involving 2 fictional universes, do you hav any idea how asinine that is. Now i'll provide my 2 cents lol Some background info first, i've been playin 40k for about 7 years(CSM and startin DE) and about the only thing i know about SupCom is wat i've read in this thread
1. SupCom has superior tech, edge
2. SupCom has the ability to create energy/matter and use one to create the other, edge
3. SupCom are basically techno nids to the 10th power
4. SupCom can teleport from planet to planet
5. Both universes defy the laws of physics, why even bring it up in a sci-fi argument, that's why it's sci-fi for sake
6. 40k has magic/warp, edge
7. Yes in theory a spoon could kill a greater daemons physical form, but he's just sent back to the warp to be summoned later... so bascially they never die, edge
8. 40k has lots of space bound vessels wielding planet killing weapons vs a mostly planet bound enemy, edge
9. Chaos Gods have the means to destroy all life, but they're not dumb enough to kill off their food source, so i'm pretty sure that they'd open some whoop on SupCom if they were to threaten their food source, edge
10. All in all no one wins, universe goes boom, everyone dies... except the DE who are laughin their off as the whole thing goes down while they're safe in their webway, kind of like how i am right now... especially if you bring in Core and Arms
That's wat i think, take as you will
Seems fair enough.
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
LunaHound wrote:But thats the fun in a debate no? :'D
It doesn't have to be bound to anything , it can be any topic.
For example i "could" make a thread on say.... " If a country had inferior military strength and technology, should they resort to terrorism tactics if they must wage a war they know they cannot win "
Since one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist...
But nope that thread would freak everyone out xD
I was kinda jokin... i love these kinds of arguments
and i do believe it's time to lock the thread... before someone trys to use their psychic powers to stab someone in the face or try to use nanobots to try and dismantle the other atom by atom and rebuild them as an emotionless warmachine
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
Why O_o? The out come of this thread was clear by page 3.
It was only dragged to this many pages due to the " magic beats all " you chose to adhere to.
For example Phantomofacheron was abit off on # 6, 7, and 8
but at least he doesn't deny the over kill in fire power and technology they have.
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
Why O_o? The out come of this thread was clear by page 3.
It was only dragged to this many pages due to the " magic beats all " you chose to adhere to.
For example Phantomofacheron was abit off on # 6, 7, and 8
but at least he doesn't deny the over kill in fire power and technology they have.
HAHA nope.
678 were all right.
Also, The humans beat the men of iron. Essentially, an entire SPECIES of ACUs. Does your people have hundreds of quadrillions of ACUs?
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
Why O_o? The out come of this thread was clear by page 3.
It was only dragged to this many pages due to the " magic beats all " you chose to adhere to.
For example Phantomofacheron was abit off on # 6, 7, and 8
but at least he doesn't deny the over kill in fire power and technology they have.
Of course you bash on my 40k edges ... but like i said personlly i think if we went by the OP's comment(IoM vs UEF) UEF wins, but if we go by the pole(SupCom vs 40k) it's safe to say it's not goin to end pretty for either side.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:Seems fair enough.
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
Why O_o? The out come of this thread was clear by page 3.
It was only dragged to this many pages due to the " magic beats all " you chose to adhere to.
For example Phantomofacheron was abit off on # 6, 7, and 8
but at least he doesn't deny the over kill in fire power and technology they have.
HAHA nope.
678 were all right.
Also, The humans beat the men of iron. Essentially, an entire SPECIES of ACUs. Does your people have hundreds of quadrillions of ACUs?
Oh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't perpetuate the argument ... and i've never even heard of this Men of Iron...
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
Why O_o? The out come of this thread was clear by page 3.
It was only dragged to this many pages due to the " magic beats all " you chose to adhere to.
For example Phantomofacheron was abit off on # 6, 7, and 8
but at least he doesn't deny the over kill in fire power and technology they have.
Of course you bash on my 40k edges ... but like i said personlly i think if we went by the OP's comment(IoM vs UEF) UEF wins, but if we go by the pole(SupCom vs 40k) it's safe to say it's not goin to end pretty for either side.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:Seems fair enough.
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
Why O_o? The out come of this thread was clear by page 3.
It was only dragged to this many pages due to the " magic beats all " you chose to adhere to.
For example Phantomofacheron was abit off on # 6, 7, and 8
but at least he doesn't deny the over kill in fire power and technology they have.
HAHA nope.
678 were all right.
Also, The humans beat the men of iron. Essentially, an entire SPECIES of ACUs. Does your people have hundreds of quadrillions of ACUs?
Oh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't perpetuate the argument ... and i've never even heard of this Men of Iron...
You haven't? Well someone recently started a thread about them that's probably a better source than Lexicanum TBH, and it's in 40k background.
#6 Warp is similar to a Black Hole, or another dimension, or a rip in space and reality. It may has a different name in 40k, but the similarity is still there.
#7 Like Ph34r explained, a weak defeated Chaos God hold no power, say if its 0.00000000000000001 % alive, yet he is not dead.
Chaos God hold no domain against beings with no flesh nor emotions
#8 Whats the purpose of space ships? tell me? Because as far as i know, its purpose is like this.
a) Transport. Who needs transports when you can jump from galaxy to galaxy?
b) Mobile fire base. Who needs to build space ships when you have a whole planet for a base.
Not to mention space ships are incredible vulnerable to Gate Jumps
Also, The humans beat the men of iron. Essentially, an entire SPECIES of ACUs. Does your people have hundreds of quadrillions of ACUs?
Arms and Core can expand as much as there are planets in the entire space Exponentially ( some how i have a feeling you don't realize the significance of this )
I don't know what plot armor humans had to beat men of iron, but the difference in technology and fire power is so vast I find it hard to take your point seriously.
im2randomghgh wrote:Greater daemons>Orks (though they fight quite rarely) Greater daemons>SupCom
Also, the second you mentioned The fact that each of the factions in your universe only have a half dozen ACUs at best, I caught on to your trolling.
What the feth are you talking about? "caught on to your trolling"?
DKOK destroyed a Keeper of Secrets Greater Daemon with a fething Leman Russ. Your point re:Greater Daemons is invalid. SupCom > Greater Daemons.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
im2randomghgh wrote:Seems fair enough.
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this thread die? Can we get it locked? Please?
The easiest way for you to not lose this debate would be to have the thread locked, huh, wouldn't it. You can see the end of your arguments is near, yes? Now that you know Daemons have no power over SupCom, you are out of things to argue with?
LunaHound wrote:
#6 Warp is similar to a Black Hole, or another dimension, or a rip in space and reality. It may has a different name in 40k, but the similarity is still there.
#7 Like Ph34r explained, a weak defeated Chaos God hold no power, say if its 0.00000000000000001 % alive, yet he is not dead.
Chaos God hold no domain against beings with no flesh nor emotions
#8 Whats the purpose of space ships? tell me? Because as far as i know, its purpose is like this.
a) Transport. Who needs transports when you can jump from galaxy to galaxy?
b) Mobile fire base. Who needs to build space ships when you have a whole planet for a base.
Not to mention space ships are incredible vulnerable to Gate Jumps
Also, The humans beat the men of iron. Essentially, an entire SPECIES of ACUs. Does your people have hundreds of quadrillions of ACUs?
Arms and Core can expand as much as there are planets in the entire space Exponentially ( some how i have a feeling you don't realize the significance of this )
I don't know what plot armor humans had to beat men of iron, but the difference in technology and fire power is so vast I find it hard to take your point seriously.
Well the only reason i put warp is because that's the whole reason for magic in 40k, the gods would act a.k.a. whoop some before they'd allow enough sentiant live to be exterminated to bring them down to such a low % of power, and the point with a ship is the fact that we can "float" up to a planet and blown the out of the planet or even blow that planet the up without ever settin foot on the planet... now feel my psychic face stab(extreme consetration followed by blood vessel breaking... followed by limp body fallin to floor)
Also, The humans beat the men of iron. Essentially, an entire SPECIES of ACUs. Does your people have hundreds of quadrillions of ACUs?
Wow, this is so obviously false it hurts. Honestly, in your mind you MUST know that this is a flat out lie. Why would you try to bolster your argument with lies? Nobody is fooled here, the men of iron were not 45m tall teleporting behemoths.
Men of Iron were not a species of ACUs, they were essentially robotic humanoids with AI that rebelled.
Taller than a titan? Nope. Able to create anything out of any matter? Nope. Defeated by Golden Age of Technology humans? Yep.
The ACU is essentially an Imperator Titan, but faster, more maneuverable, able to teleport between worlds, possessing a full and superior STC, and able to construct titans in less than seconds.
If you gate jump onto a ship, it can translate into the warp, and you have no way back. +1 ACU for chaos.
Also, You seem to fail to realize how powerful chaos is. If they wanted everyone dead, everyone would be dead. It's as simple as that. Slaanesh(weakest god)'s first act after coming into existence was to devour an entire pantheon of Gods who had existed for millions (billions?) of years.
Sort of like how James Bond Villains always come up with elaborate anti-bond plans rather than just shooting him in the head. They'd be lost with him
im2randomghgh wrote:If you gate jump onto a ship, it can translate into the warp, and you have no way back. +1 ACU for chaos.
Also, You seem to fail to realize how powerful chaos is. If they wanted everyone dead, everyone would be dead. It's as simple as that. Slaanesh(weakest god)'s first act after coming into existence was to devour an entire pantheon of Gods who had existed for millions (billions?) of years.
Sort of like how James Bond Villains always come up with elaborate anti-bond plans rather than just shooting him in the head. They'd be lost with him
The warp gods can only act int he material world through their minions, all of which can be defeated by physical means, greater daemons included.
SupCom would mop the floor with any and every force the dark gods tried to send to stop them.
Additionally, the 40k rulebooks and Necron codex heavily imply that the Chaos Gods can be defeated if all of humanity was destroyed, or if the Necrons win and construct Pylons everywhere.
A SupCom is capable of either of those means.
Also, I do not dispute that gate jumping onto an enemy ship that manages to translate into the warp would be doom for the ACU, teleporting onto a ship that is initiating warp-jump would be a very bad move for the SupCom.
im2randomghgh wrote:If you gate jump onto a ship, it can translate into the warp, and you have no way back. +1 ACU for chaos.
Also, You seem to fail to realize how powerful chaos is. If they wanted everyone dead, everyone would be dead. It's as simple as that. Slaanesh(weakest god)'s first act after coming into existence was to devour an entire pantheon of Gods who had existed for millions (billions?) of years.
Sort of like how James Bond Villains always come up with elaborate anti-bond plans rather than just shooting him in the head. They'd be lost with him
Few thing worth you knowing.
Gate Jump has nothing to do with ACUs they don't have to jump an ACU anywhere. If they feel like it, they can do the following
a) Jump an field engineer in and take over the ship
b) Reclaim the ship as material
c) Jump the smallest unit in the control bridge ( the tear in space when the unit lands will erase everything in the vicinity )
If Arm didn't exist, Core will no doubt go on a rampage killing all life forms. If that means its 2 birds with 1 stone by killing what feeds Chaos, Yay?
LunaHound wrote:Gate Jump has nothing to do with ACUs they don't have to jump an ACU anywhere. If they feel like it, they can do the following
a) Jump an field engineer in and take over the ship
b) Reclaim the ship as material
c) Jump the smallest unit in the control bridge ( the tear in space when the unit lands will erase everything in the vicinity )
If Arm didn't exist, Core will no doubt go on a rampage killing all life forms. If that means its 2 birds with 1 stone by killing what feeds Chaos, Yay?
If the Core was the invading force, they would succeed in killing all living beings, and chaos would die out due to lack of emotion.
im2randomghgh wrote:If you gate jump onto a ship, it can translate into the warp, and you have no way back. +1 ACU for chaos.
Also, You seem to fail to realize how powerful chaos is. If they wanted everyone dead, everyone would be dead. It's as simple as that. Slaanesh(weakest god)'s first act after coming into existence was to devour an entire pantheon of Gods who had existed for millions (billions?) of years.
Sort of like how James Bond Villains always come up with elaborate anti-bond plans rather than just shooting him in the head. They'd be lost with him
The warp gods can only act int he material world through their minions, all of which can be defeated by physical means, greater daemons included.
SupCom would mop the floor with any and every force the dark gods tried to send to stop them.
Additionally, the 40k rulebooks and Necron codex heavily imply that the Chaos Gods can be defeated if all of humanity was destroyed, or if the Necrons win and construct Pylons everywhere.
A SupCom is capable of either of those means.
Well that's why i said they'd act before that would happen, plus it's not just humans, it's any race that has emotions.
Also not tryin to be an or anythin, but where does it say that the gods can't interact with the material world, just wonderin cause i've never read that.
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:Well that's why i said they'd act before that would happen, plus it's not just humans, it's any race that has emotions. Also not tryin to be an or anythin, but where does it say that the gods can't interact with the material world, just wonderin cause i've never read that.
The dark gods can't exist in reality. Just as it is increasingly difficult to bring a more powerful Greater Daemon into the physical world, it is impossible for a chaos god to come into reality as their power is so great.
That is why the chaos gods must always act through avatars/daemons/servants.
LunaHound wrote:Gate Jump has nothing to do with ACUs they don't have to jump an ACU anywhere. If they feel like it, they can do the following
a) Jump an field engineer in and take over the ship
b) Reclaim the ship as material
c) Jump the smallest unit in the control bridge ( the tear in space when the unit lands will erase everything in the vicinity )
If Arm didn't exist, Core will no doubt go on a rampage killing all life forms. If that means its 2 birds with 1 stone by killing what feeds Chaos, Yay?
If the Core was the invading force, they would succeed in killing all living beings, and chaos would die out due to lack of emotion.
Or be infinitely weak like you said a few pages back.
Ok, lets put that into something visual.
The humans in video are beings with emotion capable of helping the beached whale.
The beached whale is Chaos. Granted its still alive, it cant do anything.
If the humans aren't there at that time, the whale would be alive yet unable to do anything
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:Well that's why i said they'd act before that would happen, plus it's not just humans, it's any race that has emotions.
Also not tryin to be an or anythin, but where does it say that the gods can't interact with the material world, just wonderin cause i've never read that.
The dark gods can't exist in reality. Just as it is increasingly difficult to bring a more powerful Greater Daemon into the physical world, it is impossible for a chaos god to come into reality as their power is so great.
That is why the chaos gods must always act through avatars/daemons/servants.
So bout the closest thing that the gods get interactin with material world is whisperin sweet nothings in peoples ears
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:Well that's why i said they'd act before that would happen, plus it's not just humans, it's any race that has emotions.
Also not tryin to be an or anythin, but where does it say that the gods can't interact with the material world, just wonderin cause i've never read that.
The dark gods can't exist in reality. Just as it is increasingly difficult to bring a more powerful Greater Daemon into the physical world, it is impossible for a chaos god to come into reality as their power is so great.
That is why the chaos gods must always act through avatars/daemons/servants.
So bout the closest thing that the gods get interactin with material world is whisperin sweet nothings in peoples ears
Yep, and their goal is for those sweet nothings to drive a mortal mad or to the service of the dark gods. That is how they gain followers, and power in realspace. You can see this evidenced in just about every 40k novel.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So in conclusion,
40k's strongest psykers (Tigurius, Njal, etc) are nowhere near strong enough to stop an ACU's forces (compare the abilities to the power of a Titan Legion)
40k's greater daemons are nowhere near strong enough to survive the firepower of an ACU's forces, given that a greater daemon can and has been killed by a Leman Russ's ammo stores detonating.
And 40k's space bound vessels are only an edge if they have a planet destroying vessel as SupComs want ground superiority rather than space: all their resources are on the ground, AND SupCom is in fact capable of constructing space ships, though again, they are rarely used in combat as SupCom has Ground Superiority rather than Space Superiority.
The only reason i mentioned the daemons is for the fact that they never technically die, now yes i know that the summoning can be stopped, but as long as there's a cult there are bond to be daemons. Second the IoM(and other races) hav planet busting weapons on space vessels, they just don't use them that often cause they prefer to save a planet then blow it up but in this case i think they'd be willin to make an exception. Lastly, there are a few things you people havn't taken into account...
1. Tzeentch sees all, hears all, and influences all. Don't you think he'd hav a plan 2. Everyone seems to be forgettin the supreme being that right about now should be a brain floating in a jar on the golden throne 3. You have to remeber that even if you're the superior force... it's all in the roll of the
Also no one seems to relize not matter wat DE win, cause we're all nice and cozey in the webway
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:Well that's why i said they'd act before that would happen, plus it's not just humans, it's any race that has emotions.
Also not tryin to be an or anythin, but where does it say that the gods can't interact with the material world, just wonderin cause i've never read that.
The dark gods can't exist in reality. Just as it is increasingly difficult to bring a more powerful Greater Daemon into the physical world, it is impossible for a chaos god to come into reality as their power is so great.
That is why the chaos gods must always act through avatars/daemons/servants.
...until the Emperor dies, at which point your galaxy is destroyed by chaos at the speed of thought.
And you still have yet to cite a source which says that a Greater Daemon has been destroyed by Tau/IG
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:The only reason i mentioned the daemons is for the fact that they never technically die, now yes i know that the summoning can be stopped, but as long as there's a cult there are bond to be daemons. Second the IoM(and other races) hav planet busting weapons on space vessels, they just don't use them that often cause they prefer to save a planet then blow it up but in this case i think they'd be willin to make an exception. Lastly, there are a few things you people havn't taken into account...
1. Tzeentch sees all, hears all, and influences all. Don't you think he'd hav a plan 2. Everyone seems to be forgettin the supreme being that right about now should be a brain floating in a jar on the golden throne 3. You have to remeber that even if you're the superior force... it's all in the roll of the
Also no one seems to relize not matter wat DE win, cause we're all nice and cozey in the webway
Unless the Chaos gods somehow manage to seise the Golden Throne a.k.a. a webway portal. Also, the webway isn't unassailable. (Seeath of the seer) a warlock in that book was attacked by daemonettes in the webway.
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:Well that's why i said they'd act before that would happen, plus it's not just humans, it's any race that has emotions.
Also not tryin to be an or anythin, but where does it say that the gods can't interact with the material world, just wonderin cause i've never read that.
The dark gods can't exist in reality. Just as it is increasingly difficult to bring a more powerful Greater Daemon into the physical world, it is impossible for a chaos god to come into reality as their power is so great.
That is why the chaos gods must always act through avatars/daemons/servants.
...until the Emperor dies, at which point your galaxy is destroyed by chaos at the speed of thought.
And you still have yet to cite a source which says that a Greater Daemon has been destroyed by Tau/IG
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:The only reason i mentioned the daemons is for the fact that they never technically die, now yes i know that the summoning can be stopped, but as long as there's a cult there are bond to be daemons. Second the IoM(and other races) hav planet busting weapons on space vessels, they just don't use them that often cause they prefer to save a planet then blow it up but in this case i think they'd be willin to make an exception. Lastly, there are a few things you people havn't taken into account...
1. Tzeentch sees all, hears all, and influences all. Don't you think he'd hav a plan 2. Everyone seems to be forgettin the supreme being that right about now should be a brain floating in a jar on the golden throne 3. You have to remeber that even if you're the superior force... it's all in the roll of the
Also no one seems to relize not matter wat DE win, cause we're all nice and cozey in the webway
Unless the Chaos gods somehow manage to seise the Golden Throne a.k.a. a webway portal. Also, the webway isn't unassailable. (Seeath of the seer) a warlock in that book was attacked by daemonettes in the webway.
Not sure if we're talkin bout the same story, but didn't the warlock summon the daemons then Vect sealed that portion to the webway lockin the warlock in with the daemons
im2randomghgh wrote:...until the Emperor dies, at which point your galaxy is destroyed by chaos at the speed of thought.
And you still have yet to cite a source which says that a Greater Daemon has been destroyed by Tau/IG
Yeah, false on that first point. The chaos gods are powered by mortal emotion. Take away the emotional fuel, the chaos gods are powerless to interfere with a UEF/Cybran/Aeon/Seraphim galaxy. The Emperor is preoccupied with the astronomicon, answering prayers, helping SoB in battle, etc. He is not literally the only thing between the galaxy and insta-game-over, he is just the glue keeping the Imperium strong enough to withstand chaos. Nowhere in the fluff is it stated that the galaxy is over when the Emperor dies, quite to the contrary, most sources imply that humanity would be likely doomed if the Emperor died, not "destroyed by chaos at the speed of thought".
Without the Emperor, the IoM's military might is not enough to withstand the attacks of chaos. An ACU could handle the threat of chaos armies with zero issues. An ACU with control of the galaxy would have not even have to bother stopping chaos incursions, as there would not be enough emotional turmoil to power the gods.
And if I cite a source which shows a Greater Daemon being destroyed by IG, will you concede the argument and finally admit that SupCom defeats 40k hands down? I ask this because I already did cite the source.... and you ignored it.
Really this is a unfair comparison. Two completely different settings, you might as well compare guns to clubs. Though it dose surprise me that so many people think 40k would win. I guess they are trolling or have the option that no setting can beat 40k. (kind of silly because anyone could just make a setting where Bunnies take out giant robots and that setting would be able to beat 40k)
PhantomOfAcheron wrote:I just read through 95-99% of this thread and i couldn't stop laughing. You're arguing about a hypothetical situation involving 2 fictional universes, do you hav any idea how asinine that is. Now i'll provide my 2 cents lol Some background info first, i've been playin 40k for about 7 years(CSM and startin DE) and about the only thing i know about SupCom is wat i've read in this thread
1. SupCom has superior tech, edge
2. SupCom has the ability to create energy/matter and use one to create the other, edge
3. SupCom are basically techno nids to the 10th power
4. SupCom can teleport from planet to planet
5. Both universes defy the laws of physics, why even bring it up in a sci-fi argument, that's why it's sci-fi for sake
6. 40k has magic/warp, edge
7. Yes in theory a spoon could kill a greater daemons physical form, but he's just sent back to the warp to be summoned later... so bascially they never die, edge
8. 40k has lots of space bound vessels wielding planet killing weapons vs a mostly planet bound enemy, edge
9. Chaos Gods have the means to destroy all life, but they're not dumb enough to kill off their food source, so i'm pretty sure that they'd open some whoop on SupCom if they were to threaten their food source, edge
10. All in all no one wins, universe goes boom, everyone dies... except the DE who are laughin their off as the whole thing goes down while they're safe in their webway, kind of like how i am right now... especially if you bring in Core and Arms
That's wat i think, take as you will
+1
This is probably the sensible thing that was written so far.
Yeah, it is kinda pointless getting all worked up over this sort of thing.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:+1
This is probably the sensible thing that was written so far.
Yeah, it is kinda pointless getting all worked up over this sort of thing.
Eh, it is trueish in all points but still fails to encompass how vastly outmatched 40k's armies are vs those of an ACU. 40k has magic yes, but as I have proven it cannot be enough to stop a Commander. Debate is only pointless if a side (im2randomghgh) refuses to follow logic.
your artillery
. If anything they wouldn't interfer. That is human emotion still. Perfect logic would dictate no war and just retreat and seeing solutions to everything peacefully which is more logical. Risk resources and lives, or risk nothing and just get longer but better stuff.
