What is Tentacle Bento? Tentacle Bento is a cheeky, fast playing trick taking card game for 2 to 4 players. Each game puts you in the enviable position of being a horrid, tentacle flailing, slime oozing monster from outer space. Cleverly disguised (of course) as an adorable, and newly enrolled student at Takoashi University, an all-girls school nestled in scenic Japan.
Tentacle Bento represents Soda Pop Miniatures first foray into anime themed card games, and we need your help. We are looking for support in getting this product into production, and would be grateful for your sponsorship of this effort.
What’s in the Box? Each box of Tentacle Bento is planned with 108 game cards, each richly illustrated, a mountain of unique artwork depicting the characters, locations, and sneaky traps laid by the offending aliens.
Artwork Soda Pop Miniatures has been meticulous about finding a partner that could help us achieve the anime style we were going for. Emulating the dating-sim style of anime art, we found great partners with Groundbreaker Studios. They have been instrumental in helping us envision the students and our university.
Gameplay Tentacle Bento is easy to learn, and fast to play. As a classic card matching game, players form actions from their hands, combining girls, locations, and snatches. Some combinations will generate special game effects, in-game events shake up play, and character cards will create mayhem when played on your opponents.
Girls, Locations, and Snatches are broken down into essence types or "suits", representing the particular girlish essence the aliens are after, and the locations and traps best suited to catch their quarry. Each of these essence types typifies one of the Pillars of Takoashi University doctrine.
The smart essence type typifies the Takoashi pillar of scholarly exploration. Well-read and inquisitive in nature, smart girls are tenacious and are ever on the edge of discovering the true identities of your clever disguise.
Girl's imbued with the sexy essence come from all walks of life, and in a way reflect the Takoashi pillar of confidence, which seems to come easy to this part of the student body. These girls know what they want, and they know how to get it, a wary alien would be unwise to lower it's/her guard thinking them for an easy snatch.
Takoashi girls are not only cute, they are HARDCORE cute! Representing the pillar of congeniality, cute girls, though frequently lost in their own pursuits are dedicated to their studies, wide-eyed and innocent to the nature of the universe. But an alien will have to lay a clever trap, as these girls are seldom wandering alone, preferring crowds and busy with many extracurricular activities.
The university sports program is one of the best in Japan. Rigorous training, and a hall full of trophies can attest to the victories of their elite athletes. But, no matter how mouth watering the thought, these girls are in peak physical condition, and quite capable of holding their own against the unwanted advances of extra-terrestrial menaces like yourself.
ABOUT US Soda Pop Miniatures started life in 2009 as a small manufacturer of collectible miniatures for hobbyists. We are still 3 humble guys, friends from college, trying to build a sugar coated empire out of really fun and original properties. We launched our first board game Super Dungeon Explore in 2011 with a lot of great response, and we will breathing some life into one of our miniatures projects this summer with the launch of Relic Knights: Darkspace Calamity. But our foray into games design is deeply hindered by our limited resources, and we are hoping that we can rally our community around our mad ideas and concepts enough to bring them to life.
Visit our growing and vibrant community on Facebook, and on our website. We will be also having a conversation there about these and upcoming games.
If you have any questions about your sponsorship, or our game, please contact us at info@sodapopminiatures.com
First stretch goal announced:
Hello everyone, we are totally funded, and we have 4 weeks to go! Let's go nuts! We are putting up some fun stretch goals, and we wanted to give an homage' to our roots. If we meet the first stretch goal, we will start rolling out some really unique and fun items. The first one up on the block - Candy & Cola, a collectible miniature from our Soda Pop Miniatures studio!
My, they hit puberty early didn't they. I'm struggling with one thing though... Can't see any discernable difference between the Cute Students, Sexy Students and Sporty Students. It's going to bother me all day.
The things I learn. Looks 'fun' in a kooky sort of way but I don't know anyone else who'd play it. Heck I have a hard time getting enough people to play munchkin.
Essentially an implementation of the Dominion deck building mechanism, but depicting the WW2 German invasion of the Soviet Union by anime style cheesecake girls.
Seriously though, the younger looking anime girls would do my head in. I really dislike that style when they try to potray them as 'sorta' sexy as well and masquerade it under the 'cute' banner.
I have turned off animes that use it, and one of my fave Dynasty Warriors sadly befell that fate between DW3 and DW5.
Should have just gone for it and got hold of the Urotsukidoji licence, at least they'd all look adult then.
Not sure about the title of the thread! The art at least looks very well done in the anime style. Not something I'll be backing, but I think they nailed the look they were going for.
ceorron wrote:What I don't like is how everyone in the game making/card making community is going down the kickstarter route.
I can sort of see the benefits but what is wrong with the old make a game, sell a game use normal promotions route?
Seems like kickstarter is some how taking over. That maybe just my perception.
Initial investment for a card game isn't cheap from what I understand. Kickstarter is a way to remove much of the risk by financing your initial print run off impulse-buys from 'investors' instead of requiring getting a traditional investor that requires tons of due-diligence.
My only real concern is the percentage of Kickstarter projects that are funded but do not deliver. Any information on what this number is?
I love silly card type games. You can play them with limited room and usually only need a few players. I find the concept hilarious and definitely want to check it out.
How many people are going to order this game to "get off on"?
I should have thought there were enough free dirty pictures on the internet not to need to buy "French" postcards.
With regards to the Kickstarter worries...
The concept behind Kickstarter is to facilitate creative projects to get funding which would struggle by conventional methods.
I have a slight problem with businesses using it to get what are effectively pre-orders for a proposed new product. That said, if the majority of game projects get done, it will be a good way of getting more niche products on to the market.
I have no idea about the failure rate.
I suspect it will start to climb once scam artists get into the system and that will spoil Kickstarter for the honest people.
As so often, Penny Arcade have nailed this with a cartoon.
That said, I have no doubt that Soda Pop and Steve Jackson Games will get their projects out of the door.
I can't believe this is approaching 200 backers and $10K raised after just being put up, right?
Hmmmm..... definitely not one I'll be supporting, with all the other good choices out there... I'm actually pretty surprised that it's doing this well.
(I say this, despite being a big fan of Super Dungeon Explore)
On risky new directions I can kinda see the point. I’m sure there have been many times when everyone has expressed enthusiasm over something, the company has gone and made it, and then most of those people don’t actually buy it, and this sort of system can help avoid that. So even for something like this card game (and Car Wars from the Ogre thread) I can see a reason to use kickstarter – it guarantees both the funds to make the game as well as giving them sales ahead of time, and stops the company wasting any money on empty enthusiasm.
It just becomes a problem when every product becomes a kickstarter thing.
If this sort of thing keeps up, I could imagine Kickstarter breaking projects out into different tiers. Say something like 'Kickstarter classic' vs. 'Kickstarter Commercial Pre-orders'.
Not a fan of the Soda Pop Miniatures artwork, but if you are, I wish you luck.
This would fail my "I'm not afraid to leave this up on my desktop" test. All school girl being invaded by tentacle monsters who wants to capture sexy essence---too strange for me. Best of luck to them (I guess..).
From their comments section, one of the devs speaks up:
Hi guys,
Some answers to comments!
Rules will be posted in a few days for you to review
It's a 2+ player game, as the game has gone through some iteration in the final stages
The art print is currently in progress, it is a hero mashup with all our aliens and allstars, its pretty rad,
This and more content will be revealed in updates as we get going!
We seriously just want to wake up tomorrow, see that things have been fully backed, and we can get down to the awful business of making our stretch goals public, and real!!
Alpharius wrote:I fail to see how Kickstarter is 'bad' at all.
You basically support/pre-order the game, Company X has an actual fund to work from, and you most likely get some cool bonus stuff for doing so.
If you don't support them via Kickstarter, you buy the game/thing later, when it hits the shelves.
Right?
Possible problems with Kickstarter are:
1. You can't evaluate the product before you decide to buy it.
2. Potential for outright scams.
3. If anything does go wrong after the project has activated and your money has been debited, you have no legal recourse, even if the project was completely honest and just went wrong somehow.
These factors haven't deterred me from backing a number of projects on Kickstarter and other crowdfunding ventures, but I have to say that H.B.M.C. does have a point.
On the plus side, a lot of things are going to get made which probably wouldn't have been made otherwise.
This is hilarious! And my girlfriend loves it too (well as long as there will be an Yaoi Expansion).
I just hope they keep both underage characters and violence out of it, that would spoil the fun for us. Gonna buy this just for the chance of a bishi expansion!
We have had a lot of requests for new slots to have more custom promo artwork added to the set. So, if you missed the first opportunity to get yourself, wife, or girlfriend drawn and depicted as a Takoashi student for your games of Tentacle Bento, then now is your chance!
And, as promised... some new art!
Thanks to everyone, we are almost 90% funded, and we are only 2 days in!
Eh, this is getting in to the hipster realm of parodies that are too close to the real thing become the real thing.
If you always dress like you have terrible fashion sense in order to mock people, you're still wearing ugly clothes.
Kinda feel like this is no longer parody, and just pandering. I was looking at getting in to SDE because it seemed clever and well made, but don't feel great about supporting a "lowest common denominator" company, which is what this is feeling like
Just a heads up the first page with pics gives my antivirus a hit each time the page loads. " TrojanDownloader.Twetti.mio@282806965" Comodo antivirus alert.
Just thought you should know.....
According to legoburner:
Just remotely hosted images from a server that also has hosted viruses in the past, nothing to worry about except for the false alarm people will see.
spiralingcadaver wrote:Eh, this is getting in to the hipster realm of parodies that are too close to the real thing become the real thing.
If you always dress like you have terrible fashion sense in order to mock people, you're still wearing ugly clothes.
Kinda feel like this is no longer parody, and just pandering. I was looking at getting in to SDE because it seemed clever and well made, but don't feel great about supporting a "lowest common denominator" company, which is what this is feeling like
I feel similarly. If it is impossible for you to explain to someone that doesn't play games that "oh, no it's just ironic, it's a deconstruction, I'm not actually in it for the XYZ", then you have gone too far in my opinion.
spiralingcadaver wrote:Eh, this is getting in to the hipster realm of parodies that are too close to the real thing become the real thing.
... what makes you think this is a parody?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ph34r wrote:If it is impossible for you to explain to someone that doesn't play games that "oh, no it's just ironic, it's a deconstruction, I'm not actually in it for the XYZ", then you have gone too far in my opinion.
To whom are you having to justify yourself and why?
Also, can you explain to me the thing that is being ironically deconstructed by wargaming?
It seems like you are conflating "sexual" with "obscene." I'll certainly grant that the art is overtly sexual. I don't think its sexuality is in any way a parody -- and given Soda Pop's emphasis on finding the right artists, I'd say it's a homage if anything. Also, I do understand that graphic portrayal of tentacle rape is obscene. But given that this game merely playfully references that, I don't think it can be said to be obscene itself. I suppose you might say that the sexualization of highschool-age girls is obscene but that strikes me as a rather Amish attitude.
If this is smut then Toonami was showing every 90's kid smut as they were in elementary school.
Sure, this game is laughable, but it definitely isn't smut. Large-breasted anime girls dancing around in schoolgirl uniforms is fanservice and pandering but it doesn't cross the line to pornography.
lol I don't know where to congrats Soda Pop or facepalm at humanity lol. I love the pictures and the concept sounds fun... but 12 thousand dollars in 2 days... lmao. All of the $500 tiers of making a picture of wife/self/girlfriend sold out so fast it would make the Kami Hut to classy lol.
First thoughts on this thread "What the feth is this?"
Opens thread "OH DEAR GOD!"
*turns off computer*
*turns it back on*
Okay this is just eh. Eh. omg. This is just so wrong. But its art.... >.> so I really can't complain.
And they definitely nailed what they were going for.
Bakerofish wrote:believe it or not, Hentai and Ecchis is a lot more mainstream than some folks think. Certainly more mainstream than wargaming.
Maybe where you're from. Remember that "mainstream" and "accepted" are not always the same thing. A lot of people probably know about anime porn. Not as many people know about wargaming. That doesn't mean I'd rather have to explain why I bought an anime porn/"Tentacle Bento" card game to my friends than why I bought a wargame. To myself or anyone I know this is way less acceptable than wargames. I suppose your mileage may vary? I consider myself and my friends pretty "main stream" and representative of the general population.
Bakerofish wrote:believe it or not, Hentai and Ecchis is a lot more mainstream than some folks think. Certainly more mainstream than wargaming.
Maybe where you're from. Remember that "mainstream" and "accepted" are not always the same thing. A lot of people probably know about anime porn. Not as many people know about wargaming. That doesn't mean I'd rather have to explain why I bought an anime porn/"Tentacle Bento" card game to my friends than why I bought a wargame. To myself or anyone I know this is way less acceptable than wargames. I suppose your mileage may vary? I consider myself and my friends pretty "main stream" and representative of the general population.
*looks at your flag* im actually referring to your part of the world. Im going to go as far as claim that there are probably more "fringe" anime/hentai fans in the US than there are wargamers in the west
and as for my part of the world...im sure ill probably have more folks (females) enjoying the bento game here than 40k...
Thank you everyone, as of 530PM tonight, you have helped us bring Tentacle Bento to evil squiggly life! Watch tomorrow as we continue to bring some awesome stretch goals to kickstarter for some more excellent Tentacle swag and fun!
As mentioned, this looks pretty tame. I don't understand what the fuss is all about.
Anywyay, I might get a box when it is released; definitely will not pay for something in hopes of getting it later on if it's made, as what I understand the main premise of Kickstarter is.
EDIT: Is this a collectible card game, like MTG? IF so, not interested at all.
Alkasyn wrote:As mentioned, this looks pretty tame. I don't understand what the fuss is all about.
Anywyay, I might get a box when it is released; definitely will not pay for something in hopes of getting it later on if it's made, as what I understand the main premise of Kickstarter is.
EDIT: Is this a collectible card game, like MTG? IF so, not interested at all.
I don't think it is - though there might be 'expansions' that get released later on?
Alkasyn wrote: Is this a collectible card game, like MTG? IF so, not interested at all.
I don't think it is - though there might be 'expansions' that get released later on?
Alpharius is correct it is not a CCG. It is a standalone card game. If it proves popular expansions are certainly a possibility, but we're focused on the base game at the moment.
Hello everyone, we are totally funded, and we have 4 weeks to go! Let's go nuts! We are putting up some fun stretch goals, and we wanted to give an homage' to our roots. If we meet the first stretch goal, we will start rolling out some really unique and fun items. The first one up on the block - Candy & Cola, a collectible miniature from our Soda Pop Miniatures studio!
I won't lie, I'm highly, highly tempted now that there's a miniature involved. I know someone who would absolutely love the other stuff as a gift... hopefully the t-shirts come in women's sizes.
From the look of their reactions they were somewhat expecting the pledge to be fulfilled so quickly, I wouldn't be surprised if things go crazier as the money keeps on flowing in.
BrookM wrote:From the look of their reactions they were somewhat expecting the pledge to be fulfilled so quickly, I wouldn't be surprised if things go crazier as the money keeps on flowing in.
Hmm my personal view
A. They set a low goal
or
B. They saw how fast Zombicide/Ogre (and many other games) grew
Alkasyn wrote:Anywyay, I might get a box when it is released; definitely will not pay for something in hopes of getting it later on if it's made, as what I understand the main premise of Kickstarter is.
Not quite. You don't actually pay anything until the goal is reached. So if it doesn't get far enough to be actually made, you never pay anything.
I'm not impressed either, since I already possess the Candy & Cola figure from when it was their first ever model and was supposed to be a limited edition.
SDE's second run is coming this Summer, the Caves of Roxxor (sp?) are coming this Fall, I've pre-ordered the latter at my FLGS to avoid the inevitable long wait.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Re: T-Shirts.
School Logo T-shirts (Series 1) - Show your school spirit with your own Takoashi Daigaku logo shirt! All your friends will want one. Girls shirts are a really nice American Apparel cut, so they look like a girls shirt. - When receiving your email notification at the end of the drive, you will be asked a short survey, be sure to include your preference of guys/girls and what size you will want/need.
Back on topic, I just backed this project. Looks like a great game to jump into quickly, and the subject is just hilarious.
That video was funny, surprised to see MC Bourbonnais involved too.
First time I help Kickstart anything, although I've been tempted to back some videogames before (like Wasteland 2 / Carmageddon). The way I see it though, SodaPop has actually produced stuff before, and I don't see it as a risk or worse, a scam. Those new gamedev studios though..I'm more cautious about them.
T-shirts - Seems like it's just the first models and more will be made...Also I just realised there's actual tentacles on the logo hah!
fire4effekt wrote:So, an established company is using kickstarter? I got an idea to fund your projects, sell more products.
LOL, established your kidding right. Soda Pop is a super small, no free cash type of company. So if they did this game and it failed, no more Soda Pop. I for one want more SDE. Kickstart is the perfect place for projects like this. Why don't you go give SJG some love too?
I did. I own super dungeon, and a figure from the relics line. It feels wrong when it's not a new start up. Kickstarter is for the unestablished or at least thats how it felt until recently(not aimed at Soda Pop) But i digress, you make some decent points.
fire4effekt wrote:Kickstarter is for the unestablished
While I'm somewhat in the same boat as I'm afraid in the future some big timers like Microsoft or Apple might end up using Kickstarter as Pre Orders R Us, this phrase is a little tricky though to use
A lot of kickstarters (namely games) are being developed by Industry Veterans that honestly cant go anywhere with their own projects on their own.
A good example of this is Wasteland 2. Another is Grim Dawn which is being made by the person behind Titan Quest.
Thank you everyone for your support. Stretch goal #1 is achieved. We will be including a fresh sculpted Candy & Cola in School Uniform (Soda Pop Miniatures) for all backers at the $40 level and above. We will be updating on new Stretch Goals later today!
We will be adding Candy & Cola as an alacarte item, some lower level pledges expressed some interest in getting Candy&Cola, or even getting some additional models for their collections or gifts. If you want to add another Candy&Cola miniature, or want to add one to your pledge, this is how you do it.
Alkasyn wrote: Is this a collectible card game, like MTG? IF so, not interested at all.
I don't think it is - though there might be 'expansions' that get released later on?
Alpharius is correct it is not a CCG. It is a standalone card game. If it proves popular expansions are certainly a possibility, but we're focused on the base game at the moment.
Then I'll give it a try I guess. I am a Hentai, after all.
The artwork is kinda bland to me really. It really says 'generic anime/manga' clone. It also seems very subtly westernized to me, maybe that's intentional?
Shandara wrote:The artwork is kinda bland to me really. It really says 'generic anime/manga' clone. It also seems very subtly westernized to me, maybe that's intentional?
Or, as you noted, it could just be you?
Seems fine to me!
To date I have to admit I've been unimpressed with the stretch goals - I'm hoping they've still got something really cool planned...
Shandara wrote:The artwork is kinda bland to me really. It really says 'generic anime/manga' clone. It also seems very subtly westernized to me, maybe that's intentional?
Or, as you noted, it could just be you?
Seems fine to me!
My issue with the art is that all of the girls are the same girl with different hair style and color pallet. There is literally no variety in the face or body of any of them.
Shandara wrote:The artwork is kinda bland to me really. It really says 'generic anime/manga' clone. It also seems very subtly westernized to me, maybe that's intentional?
Or, as you noted, it could just be you?
Seems fine to me!
My issue with the art is that all of the girls are the same girl with different hair style and color pallet. There is literally no variety in the face or body of any of them.
There's plenty of variety in the cup size and miniskirt length (Short to teeny)!
Shandara wrote:The artwork is kinda bland to me really. It really says 'generic anime/manga' clone. It also seems very subtly westernized to me, maybe that's intentional?
Or, as you noted, it could just be you?
Seems fine to me!
My issue with the art is that all of the girls are the same girl with different hair style and color pallet. There is literally no variety in the face or body of any of them.
There's plenty of variety in the cup size and miniskirt length (Short to teeny)!
Didn't see any cup size differences (All around C/D) when I looked the other day (and at GAMA)
Shandara wrote:The artwork is kinda bland to me really. It really says 'generic anime/manga' clone. It also seems very subtly westernized to me, maybe that's intentional?
Or, as you noted, it could just be you?
Seems fine to me!
My issue with the art is that all of the girls are the same girl with different hair style and color pallet. There is literally no variety in the face or body of any of them.
There's plenty of variety in the cup size and miniskirt length (Short to teeny)!
Didn't see any cup size differences (All around C/D) when I looked the other day (and at GAMA)
I would have thought that Cute/Smart cards would have the stereotypical small breasts, but good on SPM for making everyone's jumblies oversized!
Their are only a handful of artists that can really capture the nuance and emotional energy of huge pairs of glistening breasts with women attached to them. I'm glad they found one of these artists.
I doubt it will be pulled, as it is this weeks "Staff pick of the week", though they did add in a disclaimer: "A note to our sponsors. Tentacle Bento is a mature themed product not intended for sale to children under the age of 17. In the long history of horrible combinations of tentacles and school girls, we have taken a cheeky satire look at the genre to create a silly, if not innuendo rich, product. We are firmly against the depiction of violence against women in any regards."
N'Ferno wrote:edit : Just realised the 3rd stretch goal is labeled "Why so serious" haha!
Hahaha hadn't even seen that. That's great.
But yeah, would be cool if it's there before Friday.
Would be cool to know what the next 2 or so stretch goals would be Might motivate people more ^^
They've taken a ton of new backers over the past day, so word of mouth might be kicking in. On the other hand it seems to have attracted some bad internet press as well (surprises me it took that long tbh).
And BrookM, I don't see it in the Staff pick of the week at all. It's weird. Without any info from Kickstarter (as per Soda Pop) I get the impression they don't want to remove it but try to hide it under the carpet anyway lol
N'Ferno wrote:edit : Just realised the 3rd stretch goal is labeled "Why so serious" haha!
Hahaha hadn't even seen that. That's great.
But yeah, would be cool if it's there before Friday.
Would be cool to know what the next 2 or so stretch goals would be Might motivate people more ^^
S.
I hope they come up with something a bit more enticing/exciting, as to date none of the stretch goals have provided any additional motivation to increase my pledge.
N'Ferno wrote:I'd like to see more improvements to the base game myself. Even though I love extra swag
I hope your mean, extra to the game, like the girlfriend cards. I hope the base game dosen't need improvements. But, they got me for 40, might aswell have all 3 candy and cola miniatures. Wonder what the size is and if it is the same size as the Ralic Knight if it will have rules for it?
It's like the whole thing over Penny Arcade's dickwolves joke when a new expansion of WoW came out... The flack it received was that it was promoting a culture of rape.
*sigh* I kind of liked this game. It seemed (as they advertised) cheeky...
N'Ferno wrote:Well that sucks. Way to go Kickstarter, way to go. Who's next? The Smut Peddler? Shame they missed Leisure Suit Larry, that one sailed away 10 days ago!
But it wasn't Kickstarter that did that, it was Soda Pop that suspended their kickstarter...
There's a Magic card that people got up in arms about because it was "implied rape", so this doesn't surprise me at all. It saddens me, and that first article is laughable, but that's what you get when people try to project labels onto things.
Alfndrate wrote:But it wasn't Kickstarter that did that, it was Soda Pop that suspended their kickstarter...
Ah, I see now that I read their announcement again.
Hello,
If you wish to continue to back this project, we are having an issue with the current support/funding aspect of this service. At the moment, please "Like us" on our Facebook page for updated information shortly -
There's a Magic card that people got up in arms about because it was "implied rape", so this doesn't surprise me at all. It saddens me, and that first article is laughable, but that's what you get when people try to project labels onto things.
Why does this sadden you? Both articles seemed pretty level headed, I was definitely expecting something more hysterical. What is being projected on to this game concept? It's specifically about alien tentacle monsters raping teenage school girls. I'm not saying that its existence is going to warp innocent minds, but it is super fething creepy.
This was a fun tongue-in-cheek rip at a popular genre. Parody is not exploitation, and I would at least hope that the early success of the Kickstarter would convince Soda Pop Games to go ahead with it.
I sure love when people have nothing to do but complain about what others enjoy. Why is rape the only thing off limits these days? People have no issue with murder and you even make AIDS jokes now. What was the Southpark episode that tells the time limit on when something can be made fun of? Now back to nuking people in COD.
If you wish to continue to back this project, we are having an issue with the current support/funding aspect of this service. At the moment, please "Like us" on our Facebook page for updated information shortly -
plastictrees wrote:Why does this sadden you? Both articles seemed pretty level headed, I was definitely expecting something more hysterical. What is being projected on to this game concept? It's specifically about alien tentacle monsters raping teenage school girls. I'm not saying that its existence is going to warp innocent minds, but it is super fething creepy.
I wish you hadn't used the word 'specifically', because that would mean the game is about raping school girls. It's not. In fact nothing written in any of the documentation says anything about that. The closest you get is "snatching" girls. Is it playing in the Hentai genre? Of course it is - because it's a parody of that genre. As far as the articles go, that first one spiralled off into rape cover-ups in the church and PTSD and how many women get abused and so on - none of which has much to do with this game, other than tangential links to the thing it is parodying.
Actually, its not Sodapop who canned it. It was Kickstarter.
From their Facebook:
Soda Pop Miniatures wrote: I wont promote anarchy and fire and pitchforks, but I wont stop a series of mails protesting this decision - we will try our appeals from our end, but I will be working on a PLAN B right away
If I owned Kickstarter, I would've canned this project. I applaud their decision.
I understand some people are upset by it, but to me it was the right call.
I'm not forcing my viewpoint on anyone- however, I'd like to think I have just as much right to express it here as anyone who thinks this game is an awesome idea.
Fortunately, in my view, Kickstarter shares the feeling that this is not an appropriate project to be raising funds for on their site, and as that is their decision, have pulled it from their site.
This is no way keeps Soda Pop from raising funds through their own website, a Facebook campaign, or similar... but Kickstarter has the right to choose what projects to allow, and disallowing this one for fundraising there is in my opinion the right call to make.
It's a little (a lot?) unpopular sometimes to say "I think this goes too far" but that's my take on this game. I'm not saying I would do anything or be up in arms about others wanting it; however, if it was my decision to allow it to raise funds on my website, I would choose to disallow it, just as Kickstarter has done.
For those wanting to support it, I'm sure they'll find an alternative means of raising funds, and still be able to produce it- just not through Kickstarter.
plastictrees wrote:Why does this sadden you? Both articles seemed pretty level headed, I was definitely expecting something more hysterical. What is being projected on to this game concept? It's specifically about alien tentacle monsters raping teenage school girls. I'm not saying that its existence is going to warp innocent minds, but it is super fething creepy.
I wish you hadn't used the word 'specifically', because that would mean the game is about raping school girls. It's not. In fact nothing written in any of the documentation says anything about that. The closest you get is "snatching" girls. Is it playing in the Hentai genre? Of course it is - because it's a parody of that genre. As far as the articles go, that first one spiralled off into rape cover-ups in the church and PTSD and how many women get abused and so on - none of which has much to do with this game, other than tangential links to the thing it is parodying.
The first article referenced rape culture, which I think a genre that trivialises rape can definitely be considered to contribute to. I think the claim of "parody" is pretty tenuous, I think they are pretty shrewdly walking a line that lets them reach the "I'm just going to take these cards to my room for five minutes for no reason" market and the "haha, isn't it hilarious that I'm playing this game based on on this ridiculous premise that I certainly am not a fan of but am tangentially aware of due to being a geek hipster. HAHA!" market. If there's a comment being made on the genre it's that "we can make money from this". Does that constitute parody?
Anyway, feel free to continue this scintillating rape VS. jape debate via PM (I'll be holding my breath), I'm sure it's not entirely suitable for News and Rumors.
This is equivalent with saying Brushfire is a furry game, and then linking it to Beastiality on some random blog.
SP/TB never once mentioned sexual acts, and the art was no worst then anything else Sodapop has put out with the same level of Adult Content as Pokémon.
Was I going to back Tentacle Bento? No, the game just didn't interest me. I might have gone in for the miniatures, but SP's 28mm humans are too small for me to deal with. But I wouldn't have been opposed to playing it, and could have made a mint off of selling it if I still ran an Anime Shop.
But regardless, Censorship pisses me off. Very few things make me angrier, and because of that We are withdrawing support of Kickstarter. Our future projects will find other means of getting funding.
Note that I didn't say anything about the content in my post- only that I thought it was sometimes difficult to say "this goes too far", and that I wouldn't allow it to raise funds on my site.
I think your reaction is appropriate for what some others are saying, but isn't a true response to what I typed- which is simply that I would not allow them to raise funds on a site that I owned, that I agree with Kickstarter's decision, and that I think the game goes a bit too far. I didn't go into specifics there, and don't feel any need to do so, as this is a hot button topic.
Better to air on the side of sensitivity and class, in my opinion. I recognize that it is my opinion only, which is how I've presented it, and I'd appreciate it if any further response deals with exactly what I've typed- not what others have done so, as the reactions to this topic are many and extreme on both sides.
To summarize what I've said, in my prior post and this one:
1) I applaud the Kickstarter decision
2) If it was my call, I wouldn't allow such a project to raise funds on my site
3) I think it's difficult to come out and say "I think this game goes too far" sometimes, but that is my personal opinion of this game. Thus my stating 1 and 2 above. I am sure that Soda Pop will find alternative funding opportunities and that people that wish to will be able to buy the game. But I think Kickstarter made the right choice here.
And to summarize most explicitly- I never once mentioned "sexual acts" of any kind in my post, which is what you are reacting against in yours. Hence, my saying that you're responding to what others are saying, not what I said specifically, which I have outlined above... and I think is very reasonable.
And to comment- I agree with your reaction to people saying that this is necessarily depicting "rape" or the like... I thought about this for a few days before posting (my first post is on page 1, 5/9) and still haven't laid out my thoughts on that.
Honestly, it's a grey area, and it's going to be different for different people. Hence, my reasons more being for airing on the said of "sensitivity and class" as I said above, and basically making a personal call as to what to allow on my site (if I owned Kickstarter), rather than an absolute "This is right/wrong/etc" and applying that to everyone.
My personal take is that it just goes a bit too far for me to, personally, feel comfortable with it. My mark is usually "Would I feel completely embarrassed to show this to my wife?" and that one doesn't pass muster . Note, this is completely personal and subjective, and somewhat separate from my "Would I allow this to raise funds on my site?" consideration.
Kickstarter may have simply done it to protect their bottom line / due to outside pressure, but I'd rather think they just felt it went a little too far for what they want to have raising funds on their site... impossible to know without their giving their reasoning, though.
I'm sure that there's a generic one that Kickstarter can pull out to basically cancel any project for any reason, but I'm curious as to which one it is.
RiTides wrote:
Kickstarter may have simply done it to protect their bottom line / due to outside pressure, but I'd rather think they just felt it went a little too far for what they want to have raising funds on their site... impossible to know without their giving their reasoning, though.
Aye. One of the other issues I have, is they didn't talk to Sodapop at all before shutting it down.
Alpharius wrote:I'm sure that there's a generic one that Kickstarter can pull out to basically cancel any project for any reason
I have a feeling that's all it is- that, basically, they have the right to disallow any campaign that they choose to on their site.
I hope they'll release an explanation as to why, though, particularly as it had picked up so many backers already.
Cyporiean wrote:Aye. One of the other issues I have, is they didn't talk to Sodapop at all before shutting it down.
Agreed... all the more reason that I'd hope an explanation will be forthcoming! If nothing else, but for the sake of companies and backers using their site, to know more of the boundaries of what they will/won't allow.
I can't say I'm surprised or disappointed by this decision, though I am surprised and disappointed by the community for lending such support to this project.
That said, I do think it's a little silly of Kickstarter to allow this project to grow so big before shutting it down, and given that there appears to be strong demand for such a game-- distasteful as I may find it-- I hope that Soda Pop finds some other means of funding and publishing their project. I certainly understand why Kickstarter might not want to be associated with such things, though!
RiTides wrote:If I owned Kickstarter, I would've canned this project. I applaud their decision.
I understand some people are upset by it, but to me it was the right call.
I'm not forcing my viewpoint on anyone- however, I'd like to think I have just as much right to express it here as anyone who thinks this game is an awesome idea.
Fortunately, in my view, Kickstarter shares the feeling that this is not an appropriate project to be raising funds for on their site, and as that is their decision, have pulled it from their site.
Totally agreed. I'm not a fan of the idea that games about tentacle raping (err, "snatching") girls are being funded publicly on kickstarter. Kickstarter made the right call in my opinion, and have maintained my respect for them.
Cyporiean wrote:This is equivalent with saying Brushfire is a furry game, and then linking it to Beastiality on some random blog.
SP/TB never once mentioned sexual acts, and the art was no worst then anything else Sodapop has put out with the same level of Adult Content as Pokémon.
That's a pretty terrible analogy, unless Brushfire is filled with art of sweaty fox people bursting out of bikinis and fondling each other. I think there's a distinct jump from the "fan service" of SP minis and the "two frames from being porn" of SP-TB.
Cyporiean wrote:Was I going to back Tentacle Bento? No, the game just didn't interest me. I might have gone in for the miniatures, but SP's 28mm humans are too small for me to deal with. But I wouldn't have been opposed to playing it, and could have made a mint off of selling it if I still ran an Anime Shop.
But regardless, Censorship pisses me off. Very few things make me angrier, and because of that We are withdrawing support of Kickstarter. Our future projects will find other means of getting funding.
Dakka censors. Most online communities do. They decide who they believe their audience to be and manage content to suit that audience, to one extent or another. Maybe Kickstarter thought that the success of TB would open a door to content they weren't interested in hosting. They didn't ban them from being on the internet, they just (presumably, because we really have no idea) decided that that wasnt the sort of content they were looking to support. I'm hoping that there are a lot of things that make you more angry than mild internet censorship.
Agreed with plastictrees. Kickstarter has a right to not let you try to fund things on their site that they find distasteful. This game presumabley toed the "porn game" line too closely for Kickstarter's professional image.
The problem is that Kickstarter reviews all projects before they're allowed to receive funding.
And the analogy that Brushfire = furries is something they have to deal with because it's Anthropomorphic animals... You have animals standing on hind legs, acting like humans. While it's not smack dab into the dark places of the furry fandom, it does toe the line with that fandom...
ph34r wrote:Agreed with plastictrees. Kickstarter has a right to not let you try to fund things on their site that they find distasteful. This game presumabley toed the "porn game" line too closely for Kickstarter's professional image.
I wil say this about the whole porn thing. I was flipping through documentaries and i saw one of the life of.porn actresses. Showed photage of on set domination porn and one of the.rewards was a date with the actresses. That was clearly porn related and though sp's card game was a little low for my tastes i would have loved the limited minis from it. Reality is we need to support progects in our community az its not a easy industry and if people arent willing.to support then it will get.a.lot smaller. Brushfire isnt in my personal tastes.but i still.supported and i will have fun.with the minis. Btw i really hate this phone and all the damn periods so i apologize for that.
Leisure Suit Larry is one of the few video games to receive the AO rating by the ESRB, granted it was only one specific version that you could only order from the manufacturer...
And from Smut Peddler:
Smut Peddler wrote:"sex-positive, female-friendly erotic comics from the best and the brightest in the independent small press publishing world,"
So Kickstarter is pro smut and sex, but con insinuated anime rape?
I for one am glad that someone is thinking of the children. After all, millions of women are raped by tentacled space aliens every year and a card game promoting this vile ... wait, no, that's not it. Hmm. Ahem. After all, millions of women are raped every year as a result of cartoon pornography ... nope, that's not applicable, either. Card games cause rape? Shoot, being self-righteous is harder than I thought it would be ... and some people make it look so easy.
Fact is, this isn't about feminism. This isn't about rape. And Tentacle Bento cannot meaningfully be boiled down to those issues without a good deal of willful misunderstanding if not blatant, puritanical fear-mongering. But it's easy to read Tentacle Bento as a game about sexuality and that quite tragically makes it a tricky business in the unexpectedly culturally backward "free world." The line between something that is creepy, gross, or "downright unnatural" on the one hand and what must be accepted by everyone who is not a bigot on the other hand is quite a moving target. Ask any American or British homosexual over the age of thirty. Frederic Wertham would be proud of Kickstarter today -- maybe we should organize a Kickstarter project to get Batman to stop raping Robin?
Of course, the sex thing completely misses the point -- just like Wertham completely missed the point of comic books. Tentacle Bento is a wink at something that Westerners have held up for the past few decades as evidence that the manga/anime facet of Japanese culture is sick and perverted or at the very least ineffably bizarre. And yet we're unarguably fascinated with it. There's a lot of xenophobia as well as self-hatred (what kind of self-respecting adult can enjoy comics and cartoons?) and sexual hang-ups entangled with the Western response to manga and anime. But instead of engaging those complicated and painful questions, let's just wrap the whole thing up under the label of "protecting women" -- nevermind this is the logic of witch burning (or book burning, in the case of Wertham).
Over the course of being a member of this community and other wargaming and roleplaying and video gaming communities, I've come to realize that so-called "geek culture" is extremely conservative and fundamentalist. Our post-modern narrative of the outsider would lead me to expect that outsiders would be open-minded and self-critical ... but no. The lip service is there but nothing more (even in this thread: it should be evident that "I'm not telling people what they should like but if I had the power to shut this down, I would" is a contradiction). It's "geek culture" in this case, what with anime and card games at stake. But the whole internet is characterized by this strange ideological drag show where doudy prudishness dresses up in the fashionable high heels of tolerance.
Kickstarter's decision in this case, as opaque as the motivations currently are, seems to basically undermine it's own purpose and mission ... or at least the value I had perceived in it. Rather than knocking down barriers between creators and consumers, we just found a poor and contrived "remix" of the old ones. Money. And PR. And "taste" as a function of the lowest common denominator. For all of you who were so bent out of shape about SOPA and PIPA, consider this a microcosmic taste of what the internet is really about with or without the government cooperating with the private sector status quo.
Really well written post, I agree with pretty much all of that.
Really I think Soda-pop need to find some kind of funding outside of the US and somewhere with a bit less of a iron-shod and opinionated or particular moral compass, perhaps parts of Europe where people tend to be a bit less conservative/serious/prudish about this kind of thing.
I do think that they could probably still get this off the ground as there will be a lot of people who will be upset that Kickstarter have chosen this route, and also the notoriety this will bring.
I had no interest in this project at all, but I do object to what to many will be seen as some guy in a ten gallon hat strutting in and saying "you ain't welcome round these parts", while presumably chasing away a Soda-pop girl with a large tentacle (which is of course exactly what happened! ) It is something that a large chunk of the population probably wouldn't find offensive at all. But, as others have said it is their rules. At the very least, it highlights that there exists the potential for a competitor to Kickstarter to come into the market.
Kickstarter's decision in this case, as opaque as the motivations currently are, seems to basically undermine it's own purpose and mission ... or at least the value I had perceived in it. Rather than knocking down barriers between creators and consumers, we just found a poor and contrived "remix" of the old ones. Money. And PR. And "taste" as a function of the lowest common denominator. For all of you who were so bent out of shape about SOPA and PIPA, consider this a microcosmic taste of what the internet is really about with or without the government cooperating with the private sector status quo.
^^ This.
The purpose of Kickstarter is ostensibly to facilitate the funding of creative projects that would find it difficult to get off the ground through normal business processes.
Creative works by their nature are often subject to controversy. E.g. Piss Christ.
Kickstarter did like the project though, or at least some of their staff did, seeing as they did feature it as one of their top staff picks a few days ago oh-so prominently on their front page, but quickly dropped it due to well, you know as another poster put it nicely..
Considering I found TB to be rather disturbing on multiple levels, I cannot help being glad this has happened. It'll be amusing if the bad press leads to the Kickstarter fad fading away, too.
I'm with Manchu on this one. The failure of various online money transfer businesses to abide by any sort of "net neutrality" principle has annoyed me for years. Admittedly Tentacle Bento is no Wikileaks, but it's the same bs.
Pacific wrote:Really I think Soda-pop need to find some kind of funding outside of the US and somewhere with a bit less of a iron-shod and opinionated or particular moral compass, perhaps parts of Europe where people tend to be a bit less conservative/serious/prudish about this kind of thing.
Easier said than done, I'm afraid. There are a few ways to do it, but between the ones with high minimum fees (wire transfer) and the ones that require both ends to start doing business with an unknown middleman just to get the money through, I haven't found any good alternatives.
Manchu, I can agree with most of your post in principle, except this part:
Manchu wrote:Over the course of being a member of this community and other wargaming and roleplaying and video gaming communities, I've come to realize that so-called "geek culture" is extremely conservative and fundamentalist. Our post-modern narrative of the outsider would lead me to expect that outsiders would be open-minded and self-critical ... but no. The lip service is there but nothing more (even in this thread: it should be evident that "I'm not telling people what they should like but if I had the power to shut this down, I would" is a contradiction). It's "geek culture" in this case, what with anime and card games at stake. But the whole internet is characterized by this strange ideological drag show where doudy prudishness dresses up in the fashionable high heels of tolerance.
I've underlined the key part. You seem to have misunderstood what I typed, if that part was directed at me. I assume the rest was NOT directed at me, as you are again responding (as Cyporiean was) about people accusing this game of depicting rape or other sexual acts, which I have not done.
However, I was the one who started saying "If it was my site, I'd can this project". I don't think you can in good conscience call THAT statement (the words that I typed, here and on the previous page, not other things that you are responding to) to be a contradiction.
That is the essence of freedom. I can do what I want, no one is going to force me to do anything. Hence, my saying that if it was MY site, I'd shut down the campaign. I also followed it up by saying that I'm sure they'll find another way of funding it (indeed, they have already) so that people who want to can support it.
What's wrong with saying that- can you explain? In my opinion, people are "getting up on their high horse" on both sides of the argument. But certainly, throwing around phrases like "extremely conservative" "fundamentalist" and "prudish" in the paragraph that I quoted are a bit uncalled for, no?
Finally, I am hoping that people are reading what I'm typing. My 3 main points, to reiterate from the last page. I have said nothing beyond this... certainly nothing about "rape" or any other sexual act.
RiTides wrote:To summarize what I've said, in my prior post and this one:
1) I applaud the Kickstarter decision
2) If it was my call, I wouldn't allow such a project to raise funds on my site
3) I think it's difficult to come out and say "I think this game goes too far" sometimes, but that is my personal opinion of this game. Thus my stating 1 and 2 above. I am sure that Soda Pop will find alternative funding opportunities and that people that wish to will be able to buy the game. But I think Kickstarter made the right choice here.
Would you really apply those terms "extremely conservative" "fundamentalist" and "prudish" to me, because of the statements in the quoted text above? Because that is all I've said. I understand that you are responding to many people in one post, and that's why I want to clarify this.
If you are, I would say without hesitation that you are the one who is being intolerant. I'm not forcing my views on anyone, but the very fact that this is a free society means that I can express when I would not support something personally, or allow it to be support on a website that I own (hence supporting it myself, as Kickstarter gets a 10% cut), and that I "think it goes a bit too far". In a post-modern society, as you say, I am just entitled to say I view it this way, as long as I don't force my view on someone else.
As I said before, sometimes it's unpopular to come out and say things like this. Clearly, this is unpopular with some of you. But I think there's a compromise position, and that it is likely what Kickstarter took, between both extremes. Those extremes being "This game supports rape!!!" and the other being "This game is as tame as Pokemon!".
In my opinion, it is neither of those things, but I still would not choose to support it- and thankfully, I can make that choice for myself in this society. I don't have to force my choice on someone else, and I would also resent their forcing their viewpoint on me, or applying adjectives that are clearly reacting to something much stronger against my (in my opinion) very middle-of-the-road position.
My final question- Do you really find it impossible, in a post-modern society, to say "This makes me uncomfortable, I would not personally support it or allow it to be supported through my own website" and yet NOT say that I would go out of my way to keep others from doing so, as I am not forcing my views on them? If I can't say that, then this is not truly a 2-way discussion... I think I am actually quite open-minded and have put a lot of thought into this, so if any of your post was directed at me (as the underlined text seemed to be) I'd appreciate your responding to specifically what I've typed, which involves NO mention of rape or any sexual act of any kind.
Here's to the middle ground, then?? I honestly don't think that I have to be gung-ho in favor of something, to be considered "tolerant". Tolerance doesn't mean I have to give my money to something, or allow it to raise money on my site. If you knew me in person, you would know that I am extremely tolerant (and I met many of the mods in-person at Adepticon). I have homosexual friends and am personally in favor of same-sex unions (since for some reason you brought this up).
So, please, please don't paint anyone who is not completely comfortable with this game with such a large brush. This is a grey area, there are infinite shades, and as long as NEITHER side is throwing out absolutes and judging the other side, I think we can have a productive conversation, and perhaps even sway those "in the middle" (as I am) one way or the other, and learn from one another.
I hope this post comes across as I intend- sincere, and attempting to have a dialogue about what I consider to be an area where absolutes cannot necessarilly be applied, and everyone's "line" will be different. Just because someone has a "line" that is 3 feet further in from someone else on this issue, doesn't mean we have to start calling each other names, or accuse the other person of being intolerant of our line- we just have different lines, and thankfully in this society that's OK.
Finally, I look forward to seeing The Dictator and not being so serious for a bit .
Wow shocked i'm really shocked, mostly because kickstarter waited so long before pulling the plug.
I'm thinking they may have deliberately done this to possibly make an example of this project. In other words it didn't mater how naked the girls were or if their was "abduction" of any kind hinted or otherwise they don't want this sort of thing on their website and people need to accept that.
They clearly want to fund only clean projects with clean ideas.
Oh, I know a few people who wanted this. I admit the project was a little wierd even for me but I'd have given it a go. I'd like to see it hit the market anyway.
BrookM wrote:So the top staff picks are not picked by the staff then?
What I mean is, when I go to Waterstones, a chain of booksellers in the UK, there are Staff Picks shelf talkers that let the staff give their views on why one book or another is a good read. These can be a good way of directing visitors to pick up a title they might have ignored from the cover design.
That doesn't mean the staff have the right to accept or to ban a book in the shop because they like or don't like it.
Forget it, a meaningful discussion takes a back seat to rabble-rousing every time. The most important thing seems to be driving more wedges into the community and attacking other posters with accusations of fundamentalism and prudishness.
RiTides, I understand what you are saying, and I am in a similar place regarding this project. This isn't something that can be broken down to bumper stickers, so I think there may be some needless polarization in some other posts we are seeing here.
Personally, I am not really comfortable with this project, and have really been thinking about why...
A few have mentioned that this is parody. It is not. Parody requires humor, mockery, ridicule, as in the jester revealing hubris and showing it for what it is. I think if this project was true parody, it wouldn't evoke discomfort so strongly, for me at least.
I am perfectly aware this game, on the surface, is innocent. It makes me uncomfortable, though, because it is walking that wink-wink line. We all know what it is hinting around, giving nods to. The whole idea of "tentacle rape" is so alien (literally) that it evokes a deep, almost Lovecraftian horror and revulsion to me. I am so repulsed by it, even this product, which yes, is innocent on the surface, is too close for my comfort.
I get that others, with a different social/ cultural norm, may not feel that way. And that is fine. I am in no way judging what other people like. But i would hope they would allow me the same courtesy.
Now, as for kickstarter. I don't think they should have pulled it. Why? Because their mission is to help stuff get funded and move forward, that otherwise would not. I am not able to reconcile that mission with pulling this project.
I think, instead, they should have put some sort of disclaimer on the page, maybe play the "its ok to not like things" song.
And, ok, so maybe kickstarter took another look and decided this project was not appropriate. That is fine, they are allowed to operate their business as they see fit. But they really need to give some sort of explanation. Otherwise, it appears extremely hypocritical... A fundamental betrayal of the entire premise of kickstarter. And they become exactly that which they abhor, the pigs run the farm, etc...
Agamemnon2 wrote:Forget it, a meaningful discussion takes a back seat to rabble-rousing every time. The most important thing seems to be driving more wedges into the community and attacking other posters with accusations of fundamentalism and prudishness.
And yet the blade doesn't cut the other way; in that presuming people who support the project are "unclean" in some way? It doesn't "drive a wedge into the community" to imply that if you support the project you're an immoral pervert?
I thought it was a tasteless project and I had no interest in it, but it didn't take anything away from me that people who did like it had the option to fund it.
Kilkrazy wrote:What I mean is, when I go to Waterstones, a chain of booksellers in the UK, there are Staff Picks shelf talkers that let the staff give their views on why one book or another is a good read. These can be a good way of directing visitors to pick up a title they might have ignored from the cover design.
That doesn't mean the staff have the right to accept or to ban a book in the shop because they like or don't like it.
No, but the owner of the shop has the right to accept a book or not. They can choose what to sell or not sell. If you don't like their choices then don't visit the bookstore.
ceorron wrote:Wow shocked i'm really shocked, mostly because kickstarter waited so long before pulling the plug.
I'm thinking they may have deliberately done this to possibly make an example of this project. In other words it didn't mater how naked the girls were or if their was "abduction" of any kind hinted or otherwise they don't want this sort of thing on their website and people need to accept that.
They clearly want to fund only clean projects with clean ideas.
Again, you should probably look at the links Cyp posted a page back. Kickstarter has let people and is continuing to let people fund "unclean projects" when you look at the remakes of Leisure Suit Larry and the Smut Peddler. In fact, there is no shortage of projects on kickstarter that depict sexual acts, literally depicting them, not depicting some off camera possability. In fact, if you search Kickstarter right now for the terms, "sex", "erotic", and even "pron" you'll find content that many would consider just as bad as Tentacle Bento, if not worse.
RiTides wrote:If I owned Kickstarter, I would've canned this project. I applaud their decision.
I understand some people are upset by it, but to me it was the right call.
I'm not forcing my viewpoint on anyone- however, I'd like to think I have just as much right to express it here as anyone who thinks this game is an awesome idea.
Because "I'm not forcing my viewpoint on anyone" and "if I owned Kickstarter, I would've canned this project" should be read together in order to actually understand your perspective. In other words, you're not forcing your opinion on any one else only because you can't. But if you did have the power to do so, you would force your opinion on others -- at least insofar as you had the power to do so. If you owned Kickstarter, RiTides, you would use that ownership to suspend projects that you think are "inappropriate." I get that you're not saying "if I was in Congress, I'd make it illegal" but that's not a rehabilitation, especially in the case of Kickstarter, the value of which (as I pointed out) is that it's a form of funding that doesn't filter creativity. Saying "take that somewhere else if you want to do it" is not openness and tolerance in this case. On the other hand, simply saying that you don't support something is obviously not intolerance. But that's not what you're saying; you're saying "I don't support it and if I had the power to do it I wouldn't let you support it here, either."
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biccat wrote:If you don't like their choices then don't visit the bookstore.
I think you'll find KK already said that he won't be using Kickstarter anymore. "Like it or get out" is not really an argument so much as a threat.
RiTides wrote:I assume the rest was NOT directed at me, as you are again responding (as Cyporiean was) about people accusing this game of depicting rape or other sexual acts, which I have not done.
So what exactly is your problem with the project? As questionable the "it's rape!" arguments are, they're are least presented to support one's objection. You on the other hand have not presented, at least as far as I can tell, any meaningful justification other than "it goes too far".
Generally speaking, I find the fact they decided to can the project now, rather than reject it entirely from the get go the biggest problem here. They thought it was okay, but now they think it's not? That stinks and what it stinks of is angry, self righteous citizens writing equally angry letters to the Sunday newspaper about kids having no moral compass these days.
Gymnogyps wrote:
I am perfectly aware this game, on the surface, is innocent. It makes me uncomfortable, though, because it is walking that wink-wink line. We all know what it is hinting around, giving nods to. The whole idea of "tentacle rape" is so alien (literally) that it evokes a deep, almost Lovecraftian horror and revulsion to me. I am so repulsed by it, even this product, which yes, is innocent on the surface, is too close for my comfort.
I.
I don't know really, I just think it's funny! Does that make me an odd person for thinking that? I think It's so far removed from the realms of reality that I don't know how it can be viewed in any other way.
On the other hand, I really dislike the way that some places in Europe think nothing of showing bullet ridden bodies and train-crash victims in their newspapers. Now that, as you say, turns my stomach. But, perhaps it is different for each of us, and I'm sure some people could quite happily look at those kind of photos while munching on a sandwich.
But yes, as others have said there seems to be a bit more picking and choosing going on at Kickstarter. I think they should, in the interests of impartiality in the general perception of their company, either allow everything, or else disallow anything that someone might find unsuitable or distasteful.
Pacific wrote:I don't know really, I just think it's funny! Does that make me an odd person for thinking that?
Dunno. Do you feel revulsion at the thought of an entire planet, inhabited by millions of innocent human beings, being nuked from orbit with fire and ire, by the combined forces of Inquisition and Imperial Navy?
In other words, do you find implied genocide as revolting as implied tentacle rape?
How are some people able to even look at 40k is beyond me.
Manchu wrote:But that's not what you're saying; you're saying "I don't support it and if I had the power to do it I wouldn't let you support it here, either."
And you're saying you don't support Kickstarter's decision to ban the project, and if you had the power to do it, you wouldn't let Kickstarter ban the project either."
Both are wrong.
I find your allusion to SOPA and PIPA (in your earlier post) particularly amusing scare-mongering.
Manchu wrote:
biccat wrote:If you don't like their choices then don't visit the bookstore.
I think you'll find KK already said that he won't be using Kickstarter anymore. "Like it or get out" is not really an argument so much as a threat.
No, it's a counter-argument. Kilkrazy said "That doesn't mean the staff have the right to accept or to ban a book in the shop because they like or don't like it." That is an argument that companies such as kickstarter, doesn't "have the right to accept or ban a book in the shop." That is wrong. Insofar as he was making an argument that they shouldn't have such a right, I was providing a counter argument.
I doubt it got canceled because people at Kickstarter didn't like it, it got canceled because there was negative press about it and Kickstarter didn't want to look bad.
Well I've just re pledged through Sodapop's site my $60. Don't know why they didn't go this route in the first place. Being a big fan of Anime and Manga, I can't wait to receive the game, artwork, and models. Funnily enough, it will arrive just in time for my Wife and I's holiday to Japan. Something to play on the Plane / Train which won't even raise an eyebrow over there.
To all the 'Moral Police'. I call you HYPERCRITES. The Alien Tentacle Anime theme is well established in Tokyo Pop Culture and raises no eyebrows whatsoever. This Alien Tentacle Rape is 'unacceptable' and wrong by your standards. Fine no issue, everyone is entitled to their opinion. We in the Western World have something called Freedom (or so I thought). You have a choice. If you don't like it, don't buy, look at it. What gets my back up is 'because I think it’s wrong, then it shouldn't be allowed'. As long as its legal, what’s the issue? Clearly there are no laws being broken by Sodapop, but people insist that their views are best ‘so let’s get the Project shut down’....
These same people crying 'burn the Tentacle Fans', are the same people playing Wargames. A game by its nature involves the mass killing of your opponent. Guns and Violence Galore, but this is acceptable. We have rules for running people over in Tanks, rules for killing wounded Soldiers, Mission objectives of killing the civilians, whist the opponent protects them. The Background describes forces exterminating entire races just because they are not human, and again, this is acceptable. People are awarded Kudos for modelling mutilated corpses showing blood exploding bodies, and yes, this is still acceptable. All the above in the REAL world would be wrong, immoral, etc. But this isn't the real world is it? Its fictional, it’s not real.
In Asia there are hundreds of such Card games using the same mechanics as Tentacle Bento, some with artwork even depicting actual penetration (it’s called Hentai Art) and again, in that part of the world it doesn't even raise an eyebrow. Its cultural thing over there; to which Sodapop are bringing that to the Western part of the globe, and I whole heartedly applaud them for it. If you don't like it, fine, don't support it. But don't go on your Moral High Ground to the people who do.
Personally I see Religion as an evil outdated method to control people through fear. “Do this, or this will happen when you die”. But we have Freedom in this world. So whilst I do not support or recognise someone’s religion, I don’t go preaching to them what I think they should do / not do. I respect their wishes, assuming it’s all lawful.
Manchu wrote:But that's not what you're saying; you're saying "I don't support it and if I had the power to do it I wouldn't let you support it here, either."
And you're saying you don't support Kickstarter's decision to ban the project, and if you had the power to do it, you wouldn't let Kickstarter ban the project either."
Um, sort of. Now let's unwrap the rest of the package. If I started a business to reduce the amount of barriers between people who want to create something and people who want to fund that thing then I would not use my business itself as exactly that barrier. So "if I had the power to do it, I would not let Kickstarter ban the project" turns out to be a pretty silly statement: "if I controlled Kickstarter I would ban Kickstarter from banning the sort of thing that Kickstarter is supposed to do."
Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded. The existence of a Kickstarter project does not obligate anyone to fund it. The Tentacle Bento Kickstarter, for example, in no way forced RiTides or anyone else who found the project unacceptable to support it. Suspending the project, however, forces everyone who would like to support it to find somewhere else to do it.
Manchu wrote:Um, sort of. Now let's unwrap the rest of the package. If I started a business to reduce the amount of barriers between people who want to create something and people who want to fund that thing then I would not use my business itself as exactly that barrier. So "if I had the power to do it, I would not let Kickstarter ban the project" turns out to be a pretty silly statement: "if I controlled Kickstarter I would ban Kickstarter from banning the sort of thing that Kickstarter is supposed to do."
It appears that by "sort of" you meant "yes."
Manchu wrote:Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded.
Actually, it's exactly equivalent. In both cases Kickstarter is deciding whether they want to support a project or not based on the expected return from that project. Alienating customers is a real consideration in that return.
Manchu wrote:Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded.
Actually, it's exactly equivalent.
Actually, no it's not. One course, allowing the project to be available for funding, requires no action on the part of anyone who might support it. The other course, the one actually employed in this case, does require action on the part of those who might support it -- namely to get lost.
His Master's Voice wrote:How are some people able to even look at 40k is beyond me.
Indeed, this is a useful parallel. Apparently a race that wears the freshly-flensed skin of a man as a cape is not a problem.
Tbh I've never quite got the whole set up of our rating system. Violence seems to equal fine in pretty much all things, look at Dark Knight and the rating it got considering what goes on in that film, and yet as soon as something takes even a slight step towards Pr0n town, anything more than heavy petting "oh my god society is dying!" just makes me roll my eyes.
I have no real interest in owning this game mind, but I didn't see what folks where getting steamed up about and it didn't bother me that others where picking it up. Like someone alluded to above, take a look at the actual Hental based games (tabletop or otherwise) you can get in Japan, and then come talk to me, I wouldn't get those either, but it would really put into perspective how this was quite tame in comparrison.
I'm more interested in the precedent this has set might go. Will Kickstarter can other projects folks don't like if they then complain?
What if someone has penned a novel that is anti Catholic throughout its story, and folks start complaining, do they dump that. Anti Republican? a Gay romance novel... better start thinking of those children.
Alpharius wrote:Providing a 'counter-argument' or just playing Devil's Advocate?
One can be a devil's advocate and provide a counter-argument. In fact, that's the purpose of the Devil's Advocate..
You and I both know that is NOT what many intend when "playing Devil's Advocate"... don't we?
Manchu wrote:
biccat wrote:
Manchu wrote:But that's not what you're saying; you're saying "I don't support it and if I had the power to do it I wouldn't let you support it here, either."
And you're saying you don't support Kickstarter's decision to ban the project, and if you had the power to do it, you wouldn't let Kickstarter ban the project either."
Um, sort of. Now let's unwrap the rest of the package. If I started a business to reduce the amount of barriers between people who want to create something and people who want to fund that thing then I would not use my business itself as exactly that barrier. So "if I had the power to do it, I would not let Kickstarter ban the project" turns out to be a pretty silly statement: "if I controlled Kickstarter I would ban Kickstarter from banning the sort of thing that Kickstarter is supposed to do."
Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded. The existence of a Kickstarter project does not obligate anyone to fund it. The Tentacle Bento Kickstarter, for example, in no way forced RiTides or anyone else who found the project unacceptable to support it. Suspending the project, however, forces everyone who would like to support it to find somewhere else to do it.
Well said, though it did almost make my head implode!
Ironically enough, now with Kickstarter out of the picture, Soda Pop stands to actually make a bit more on this project, maybe!
This doesn't surprise me, Kickstarter is an American website, and America, in general (not individuals, obviously, and not everyone in the entire country, obviously), has a giant-centipede-sized bug up its ass when it comes to anything sexual, explicit or implied.
Fountains of gore, casual cold-blooded murder, butchery, torture and mutilation though?
Totally A-OK U-S-A, come bring the children and enjoy the show!
Of course, it's their site, they have the right to ban anything they want. Should have done this at the review stage though, instead of being jerks about it.
I'd rather see this game as a miniatures game, or RPG.
I don't really like seeing pantywastes crying in thier tea over a game, so I'm leaning tword funding it on GP.
Theres too much of this "PC" propaganda going on to the point where people are taking stuff of this nature ENTIRLY out of proportion.
those two articles were written by halfwits, BTW.
as for Kickstarter- You know your weaksauce when your pulling the plug on a project for being too successful.
Once again- More minaitures, less Card games. We need more tenticles in our minis game... ( Thats Soda Pop Owes us. Still. )
Theres a couple of places for your japanese highschool girl hijinks, and theres a couple of pretty cool lord of the flies games I am looking at that have need of some tenticle infused miniatures.
I won't mention where to find them, but needless to say- they are a really cool read, and the red red groovie flows freely without prat PC monkeys going on and on.
Nothing says I love highschool like a classroom full of students pitted to fight to the death.
add one more six in there for the tenticle minion.
(Oh, and by the way- who is working on those Cthuhlu garters, I want some! )
ceorron wrote:They clearly want to fund only clean projects with clean ideas.
What an upright citizen you are. Truly, your moral compass is a beacon that we all should follow; and I'm glad to have people like you on Kickstarter.
Just to clarify my viewpoint, I am disappointing that kickstarter pulled the funding of this project. It clearly was what people wanted after all it ws funded so it was what people wanted. So in this sense I think kickstarter are in the wrong however I do respect their right to choose what gets put through their website, not all project look good on the wider community and kickstarter clearly want to keep a clean image that this project was likely not have been helping them to keep.
What I really don't like is the way kickstarter have gone about this. If they were going to do this they should have stepped in earlier made their point of view know and saved everyone a lot of wasted time.
ceorron wrote:What I really don't like is the way kickstarter have gone about this. If they were going to do this they should have stepped in earlier made their point of view know and saved everyone a lot of wasted time.
On this, there is consensus. I have no problem, in general, with Kickstarter declining to allow what it considers to be "inappropriate content". They are a private business and you can always take your ball and go home.
What I don't like is that they initially approved it and then later shut it down, that they didn't tell the project owner first, and appear to have done it to appease a few public critics. You can't describe yourself using such phrases as "The filmmakers, musicians, artists, and designers you see on Kickstarter have complete control and responsibility over their own projects." when that clearly is not true; this project WAS "on Kickstarter". If you're going to support creative artists, you either need to be clear you're just a venue (Etsy is very good at this) or if you need to spell out more clearly what you consider "inappropriate".... and catch it in the screening process. A process that they completely control, might I add.
Is this where I post the picture of the Wetnurse? I wasn't sure.
Kickstarter has the right to not host the project.
KK has the right to not fund Kickstarter projects due to their business decision.
Kickstarter would also have the right to keep hosting the project.
People whom are offended have the right to not fund Kickstarter projects due to their business decision.
The only pertinent question is--does the negative reaction of canceling an (implied) tentacle rape game--outweigh the negative reaction of hosting an (implied) tentacle rape game. Very likely, it does not--so I understand their decision.
Personally, I'm in the "Eh, that's a pretty strange game but I don't really care if they host it or not" group.
My problem with this getting canceled and the whole issue in general is NOT the people who say "I disagree with this project and I can't bring myself to support it, nor would would I support it if it were my call to allow it."
My problem is the people who say " I disagree with this project. I'm going to write a million letters to Kickstarter to have it canceled right away."
Really? That's akin to Mitt Romney attacking a kid with a bleach blonde emo swoop because he didn't think it belonged in his enviroment.
I partly hold Kickstarter responsible. It doesnt appear to me the game upset their own moral codes, as it was reviewed before hand and even featured. They caved to pressure and cancelled the game because some people didn't like it.
Another example of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. That people haven't complained about Leisure Suit Larry Comes Again or The Smut Peddler is curious.
I can't abandon Kickstarter completely as they do some good work and enable things to hit market that normally couldn't, but I am disillusioned with them as a neutral supporter of all projects. Like Ouze said, it's a black eye on Kickstarter in general.
What is thier bottom line rules on projects of this nature?
Do they only pull funding when "SOMEONE" pees in the punchbowl? Or is it part of thier practice to pull a nearly funded project when it is indeed getting funded?
Who is responsible for the yeah or hell no! decision making for Kickstarter in general?
Kickstarter needs to tread a little lighter in this arena, thats for sure. Arbitrarily just yanking someones funding is parmount to negativly impacting the product- opening up legal arenas.
Yes, they are entirly in thier right to do what they want, but what happens when I'm damn near funded on my Henti garters, am at the producer of said garters, then Kickstarter pulls funding when I'm down seven large, because I'm a henti garter seller, with bills to pay?
More effects to consider when being a D bag on the public dime.
Never underestimate the power of a whining minority.
There's good odds that the people who complained were simply anonymous internet trolls who didn't actually care either way, but just felt like screwing with the project "4 THE LULZ111".
You never know with the internet, which has a large proportion of people who will try to screw up anything, anywhere just because they get kicks out of it.
Could be a genuine conservative christian writing the email or some greasy hate-filled unemployed 24 year-old who lurks on 4chan 8 hours a day. Impossible to tell.
Necros wrote:I doubt it got canceled because people at Kickstarter didn't like it, it got canceled because there was negative press about it and Kickstarter didn't want to look bad.
It's such a shame they buckled and ran at the first sign of some unheard of websites sabre-rattling... anyhow it's like they say 'there's no such thing as negative publicity!'
Kilkrazy wrote:...If you genuinely want to help fund creative projects you need to be able to take a bit of PR flak, not just your cut of the funding involved.
Kickstarter has fallen at the first hurdle. Their own guidelines say, if you don't like a project, don't back it.
Instead, they have allowed a small but vocal number of arguably excessively prudish people to dictate the site's mission...
This^^ - I concur and they could have jumped on top of all the negative press and came out on top smelling of roses singing their battle cry of 'come here to get your projects funded'
I've gone to Soda Pops website and pushed $50 directly into their pockets - those damn hippies wont tell me what I can or can not buy with my hard earned ( British pounds converted to ) American dollars...
Panic...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grot 6 wrote:... Kickstarter needs to tread a little lighter in this arena, thats for sure. Arbitrarily just yanking someones funding is parmount to negativly impacting the product- opening up legal arenas.
Yes, they are entirly in thier right to do what they want, but what happens when I'm damn near funded on my Henti garters, am at the producer of said garters, then Kickstarter pulls funding when I'm down seven large, because I'm a henti garter seller, with bills to pay?
More effects to consider when being a D bag on the public dime.
sodapop email wrote:...Please, if you were a backer on Kickstarter, we still need your support to help us fulfill all our stretch goals to our supporters. We have committed to creating the promised materials...
your probabily right here - pulling the plug so late in the day could leave someone several thousand $ in the red and only legal recourse to settle the bill.
Panic wrote:
I've gone to Soda Pops website and pushed $50 directly into their pockets - those damn hippies wont tell me what I can or can not buy with my hard earned ( British pounds converted to ) American dollars...
Panic...
To be honest, Panic, I don't think it is really the hippies that are against this, they tend to be the nonvocal minority that a lot of other minorities pick on a lot for, you know, being hippies.
Gymnogyps wrote:RiTides, I understand what you are saying, and I am in a similar place regarding this project. This isn't something that can be broken down to bumper stickers, so I think there may be some needless polarization in some other posts we are seeing here.
Personally, I am not really comfortable with this project, and have really been thinking about why...
A few have mentioned that this is parody. It is not. Parody requires humor, mockery, ridicule, as in the jester revealing hubris and showing it for what it is. I think if this project was true parody, it wouldn't evoke discomfort so strongly, for me at least.
I am perfectly aware this game, on the surface, is innocent. It makes me uncomfortable, though, because it is walking that wink-wink line. We all know what it is hinting around, giving nods to. The whole idea of "tentacle rape" is so alien (literally) that it evokes a deep, almost Lovecraftian horror and revulsion to me. I am so repulsed by it, even this product, which yes, is innocent on the surface, is too close for my comfort.
I get that others, with a different social/ cultural norm, may not feel that way. And that is fine. I am in no way judging what other people like. But i would hope they would allow me the same courtesy.
The above so closely resembles my own thoughts that it was just better to quote it.
I admit from the get-go that I have NOT watched the video. No speakers here. So, please forgive me if anything I say here is addressed in or refuted by the video.
From the start, I had ZERO interest in this product. I don't like anime or Soda Pop's art style. I'm also not looking for any new card games.
So, I ignored the project. The new title of this thread caught my attention, though. I was wondering, "How bad does something have to be for Kickstarter to cancel it?"
I can see now, what that criteria is.
Frankly, I think many who are outraged by the cancellation have blinders on.
First off, nothing I see about the actual game has ANYTHING to do with tentacle rape (which I'm disgusted by, for the record). Snatching of girls does not equal rape of any variety (tentacle or non-tentacle). It looks like this game could have just as easily been an "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" incarnation. It is ONLY about "snatching" (kidnapping) girls for, presumably, alien experimentation. Heck, that's something prevalent in our society. People are always claiming to have been snatched by aliens and probed/tested. I don't even see it as having been a parody of TR (Sorry. I get repulsed every time I type that phrase). I didn't see ANY mention of that in the description.
Fine.
In that respect, I could support the game and have ZERO issues with it.
But, then, they've got to go and put "Tentacle" in the name? I see no reason for doing that, EXCEPT to invoke the idea of TR. Considering my already established opinion of TR, you can presume how that changes my opinion of the game. I've got ZERO issues with the innate sexuality of the game, just the implications in the title.
This game does NOT explicitly or, as best I can tell, remotely refer to TR during or as part of actual game play. Those who make such accusations would be off base. That said, the game is immediately sullied by the controversial title.
It's also unfair to categorize this game as innocent. It's nothing like comparing Brushfile to bestiality or Furries unless, as said earlier, you sexualize the animals in Brushfire, put them in skimpy outfits, and depict them groping each other. The game itself isn't innocent, but also does not pass my threshold of "too far." It's the title that causes that for me.
Lastly, it's not censorship for Kickstarter not to allow them to use the site any more than it's censorship for me to choose not to back the project. Kickstarter's lack of backing is just on a larger and more public scale. Such is their right. Saying you won't support Kickstarter projects is unfortunately. Sure, KS gets some of your money, but you're also hindering many worthwhile projects with no other reasonable option for funding by removing your support for them.
MagickalMemories wrote:Saying you won't support Kickstarter projects is unfortunately. Sure, KS gets some of your money, but you're also hindering many worthwhile projects with no other reasonable option for funding by removing your support for them.
Well, those projects can always take Kickstarter's advice to Soda Pop Miniatures and "go somewhere else." Kickstarter is hardly the only or even the original crowd funding website. So the issue isn't "take Kickstarter or leave creativity." Rather, the issue is "Kickstarter is not really about creativity." As KK mentioned earlier, "If you genuinely want to help fund creative projects you need to be able to take a bit of PR flak."
Soda Pop's Kickstarter wrote:First: A note to our sponsors. Tentacle Bento is a mature themed product not intended for sale to children under the age of 17. In the long history of horrible combinations of tentacles and school girls, we have taken a cheeky satire look at the genre to create a silly, if not innuendo rich, product. We are firmly against the depiction of violence against women in any regards.
was there the whole time. Nothing like pre-empting your sponsers and letting them know that it's supposed to be a joke.
MM - I get where your coming from, and I can appreciate that you don't like the overall theme of this game, everyone is after all entitled to their own opinions and their own set of values. There are many things in this wide world that I don't agree with or that I find distasteful.
There are a couple of different groups that are being generalized and represented in this thread and many like it across the interenet. There's the group you and I are a member of. Where we acknowldge that there are things out there that don't fit into our acceptable values, but they are things that are legal, enjoyed by others and don't actually hurt anyone.
Then there is the group that most of the hate is being aimed at. Thats the group that thinks that just because something doesn't fit into their world view it is inherantly evil and therefore must be stopped.
I have a major problem with people like this. I have a major problem with people that try and force their views on other people, be it religion, political or board game theme.
Its people who are forcing their views on other people that in my opinion got this game canceled, so therefore I have a problem with them without even knowing them.
Catyrpelius wrote:MM - I get where your coming from, and I can appreciate that you don't like the overall theme of this game, everyone is after all entitled to their own opinions and their own set of values. There are many things in this wide world that I don't agree with or that I find distasteful.
Ah, a friendly response. I live for those. : )
Just for clarity:
In one way, you've got my mischaracterized. I actually DO like the overall (general) theme of the game, which I see as "alien abduction." I think an alien abduction card game, if well done, is a GREAT idea. It's the title and other innuendo that I take issue with.
Catyrpelius wrote:There are a couple of different groups that are being generalized and represented in this thread and many like it across the interenet. There's the group you and I are a member of. Where we acknowldge that there are things out there that don't fit into our acceptable values, but they are things that are legal, enjoyed by others and don't actually hurt anyone.
Then there is the group that most of the hate is being aimed at. Thats the group that thinks that just because something doesn't fit into their world view it is inherantly evil and therefore must be stopped.
Re: Emboldened text
VERY true. The sad irony of the situation is that, typically, the most vocal members of BOTH sides seem to fall into this group.
Trying to get THEM to see and acknowledge that, however, is a different beast entirely. Eh?
Catyrpelius wrote:I have a major problem with people like this. I have a major problem with people that try and force their views on other people, be it religion, political or board game theme.
Understandable and agreed.
Catyrpelius wrote:Its people who are forcing their views on other people that in my opinion got this game canceled, so therefore I have a problem with them without even knowing them.
I think this is our only true point of separation, and it might not be THAT big of a point, really.
We don't *know* why the game was canceled, beyond the fact that Kickstarter chose to. It might be that they caved to what they felt was an overwhelming outcry against the game or it might be that they, as a corporation, took a look at this game and said, "Nope. That's just a bit too close to making a game out of rape for our tastes." Hell, maybe it was BOTH.
For me, even parodying rape is too much. I just don't see anything there worth making jokes of (again, folks, just my opinion - I DID NOT EMAIL KICKSTARTER).
Myself, I don't have an issue with people complaining to Kickstarter about the game. I really don't. They've got a right to say, "If you support projects that make rape -in any fashion- a joke, I will not support you," just as much as those in the opposite camp have a right to tell Kickstarter this about NOT allowing the project.
(Which reminds me. Those of you who are outraged @ Kickstarter about this project; did you email them to tell them how you feel? Did you tell them you'll stop supporting them if they don't reinstate the project or, at least, offer to? If you want your voices heard, after all, you've got to use them.)
To me, if people complained to Kickstarter, then Kickstarter should take another look at the project and decide if they want to allow it or not. If they don't, then they should be able to provide a solid, sensible reason. If they do, then they should support it and, as has been said, take the flack for it.
@ Manchu
Kickstarter might not be the only or the original... but I've never heard of any other (by name). Also, someone earlier posted a generic comment about how hard the other ones are to work with. Maybe that's why I've heard of KS, but none of their competitors.
Kilkrazy wrote:They should have had the balls to defend their principles and tell the nay-sayers to not fund the project.
Especially since to some degree it was in Kickstarter's own self interest to defend their own practices. I look forward to, for example, future projects like this showing up on sites like Newsmax braying about how" Kickstarter helps fund abortions" or some other controversial subject/derp. Once you give a mouse a cookie...
Kilkrazy wrote:I don't blame the people "forcing" their views on other people because they didn't.
It was Kickstarter who caved in and pulled a project that was within their rules and had been accepted for the site.
They should have had the balls to defend their principles and tell the nay-sayers to not fund the project.
From what I've gathered it was a mix of some external Blogs and e-mails to both Kickstarter and Amazon that prompted the cancelation. What ever happened to live and let live?
I whole heartedly agree with you about Kickstarter though. I think its time they look alittle bit deeper into what exactly they want to be known for.
A few days ago I stumbled upon a project to make a film about an older woman that finds love at a womans unmentinable store. Fair enough could be a though provoting movie, except that one of the backing levels gets you a bra used in the filming of the movie. How is trading a used woman's bra for money acceptable..... To say that I'm confused by the rules governering Kickstarter would be something of an understatement.
Kickstarter is a company that answers to it's backing public, or not, as it sees fit. Weighing the pros of hosting this project vs the backlash from the public, who literally vote with their wallet on this site, it chose damage control over any high minded stance.
Which is exactly what I would have done, had I been in the same position. I'm not going to hurt my livelihood over a card game. As much as that sucks to be Soda Pop in this part of the equation, you do what needs to be done, and fix it from there.
Valhallan42nd wrote:Kickstarter is a company that answers to it's backing public, or not, as it sees fit. Weighing the pros of hosting this project vs the backlash from the public, who literally vote with their wallet on this site, it chose damage control over any high minded stance.
Which is exactly what I would have done, had I been in the same position. I'm not going to hurt my livelihood over a card game. As much as that sucks to be Soda Pop in this part of the equation, you do what needs to be done, and fix it from there.
But in esseance the backing public chose that it liked the game, hence them having already beat their funding goals.
In my opinion their going to generate more flack and ackownledment of the game then they would have if they had just quietly let the game go to completion.
Gymnogyps wrote:RiTides, I understand what you are saying, and I am in a similar place regarding this project. This isn't something that can be broken down to bumper stickers, so I think there may be some needless polarization in some other posts we are seeing here.
Personally, I am not really comfortable with this project, and have really been thinking about why...
A few have mentioned that this is parody. It is not. Parody requires humor, mockery, ridicule, as in the jester revealing hubris and showing it for what it is. I think if this project was true parody, it wouldn't evoke discomfort so strongly, for me at least.
I am perfectly aware this game, on the surface, is innocent. It makes me uncomfortable, though, because it is walking that wink-wink line. We all know what it is hinting around, giving nods to. The whole idea of "tentacle rape" is so alien (literally) that it evokes a deep, almost Lovecraftian horror and revulsion to me. I am so repulsed by it, even this product, which yes, is innocent on the surface, is too close for my comfort.
I get that others, with a different social/ cultural norm, may not feel that way. And that is fine. I am in no way judging what other people like. But i would hope they would allow me the same courtesy.
Now, as for kickstarter. I don't think they should have pulled it. Why? Because their mission is to help stuff get funded and move forward, that otherwise would not. I am not able to reconcile that mission with pulling this project.
I think, instead, they should have put some sort of disclaimer on the page, maybe play the "its ok to not like things" song.
And, ok, so maybe kickstarter took another look and decided this project was not appropriate. That is fine, they are allowed to operate their business as they see fit. But they really need to give some sort of explanation. Otherwise, it appears extremely hypocritical... A fundamental betrayal of the entire premise of kickstarter. And they become exactly that which they abhor, the pigs run the farm, etc...
You're absolutely right! This is no parody! Think of all the large breasted, skinny Asian school girls who are violated by tentacle monsters every day. What an awful problem we face!
Being serious, not every game is for everyone-if it's a made-up game, there is no reason not to make it. I personally have no interest in buying it, but if a friend had it and wanted to play, I'd try it. If we canned everything that somebody was offended over, nothing would get made.
I'm amused at the E-rage and E-offense this generated. I can understand people being offended at the concept given a set of assumptions, but given that nothing is explicit (at least far as I could tell) and it looks rather harmless tongue-in-cheek game parodying one of the most controversial aspects of Japanese culture. Yeah, it's suggestive, but so are a whole lot of other things.
Most of us are here because we play a tabletop game where the "good guys" are genocidal super soldier warrior monks of a oppressive theocratic dystopian regime and the bad guys are so evil they make these guys look good by comparison, so I find it all a bit silly. When we have rape-demons and literal horrors in games, but we get mad about the cutesy sexy-suggestive game, it's smacks of cognitive dissonance.
While this isn't really a product I could ever see myself help funding or purchasing, I really don't have much of an issue with it, there's a lot worse stuff out there that's far more worthy of people's offense and rage, though I'm also a terrible human being so take that as you will.
Wow! What happened here? Or better what are the folks at Kickfart thinking?
Oh well nothing special to say about this apart that Kickstarter fads are getting a bit to much, I'm not a fan of investing in something not produced I dont even preorder things beause that's just me so dang it.
In miniatures business I think who ever is producing needs to have money of their own and invest themselves on their projects and not the other way around, call me old fashioned. In this particular case its not even a miniature game and since there's already some art etc it has a considerable upfront private investment.
timetowaste85 wrote:You're absolutely right! This is no parody! Think of all the large breasted, skinny Asian school girls who are violated by tentacle monsters every day. What an awful problem we face!
While this may be humorous, it seems perfectly in line with Hentai sensibilities, not subverting or mocking them to point out the ridiculousness of it.
Valhallan42nd wrote:Kickstarter is a company that answers to it's backing public, or not, as it sees fit. Weighing the pros of hosting this project vs the backlash from the public, who literally vote with their wallet on this site, it chose damage control over any high minded stance.
Which is exactly what I would have done, had I been in the same position. I'm not going to hurt my livelihood over a card game. As much as that sucks to be Soda Pop in this part of the equation, you do what needs to be done, and fix it from there.
But in esseance the backing public chose that it liked the game, hence them having already beat their funding goals.
In my opinion their going to generate more flack and ackownledment of the game then they would have if they had just quietly let the game go to completion.
This the public did vote with there wallets, it was a go for it here are money, The I'm better then you, so you can only like what I likegroup bitched, with there months and killed it.I wonder how many of then every kickstarted a thing in the first place.
Not sure I have toooo much to add here, because I think the "Those politically correct prudes have ruined things for everyone, amirite!" nerds have staked their claim to this thread.
I'm impressed that people have somehow managed to turn finding the objectification of women and implied rape distasteful into "uptight puritanism". I must be super right wing if I think that establishing forced rape porn as a cultural touchstone has a negative impact, however small, on how women are perceived and treated in that society.
Ahtman wrote:While this may be humorous, it seems perfectly in line with Hentai sensibilities, not subverting or mocking them to point out the ridiculousness of it.
So now it's the "Hentai sensibilities" that are the problem? Not actually doing or advocating anything wrong, but only an interest in imaginary bad things happening to imaginary people?
plastictrees wrote:I'm impressed that people have somehow managed to turn finding the objectification of women and implied rape distasteful into "uptight puritanism".
It's not nearly as impressive as turning a card game into advocacy of violence against women.
Ahtman wrote:While this may be humorous, it seems perfectly in line with Hentai sensibilities, not subverting or mocking them to point out the ridiculousness of it.
So now it's the "Hentai sensibilities" that are the problem? Not actually doing or advocating anything wrong, but only an interest in imaginary bad things happening to imaginary people?
My statement is not in response to the banning of the KS, which I think was not well thought out by KS, but to the poster who thought it was a parody, which it is not.
Ahtman wrote:... who thought it was a parody, which it is not.
It is telling that "parody" is the immediate defensive position. It shows how the language of IP disputes has really sunk into our local culture around here.
plastictrees wrote:I must be super right wing if I think that establishing forced rape porn as a cultural touchstone has a negative impact, however small, on how women are perceived and treated in that society.
I know of a place were rape and images of it will get you killed, they also make women cover all the body when in public and they can't go out without a man going with them. I also know of a place were there allowed to run companys and aren't treated like property, you should see the thing they let the public see in there places. It is sick, even to most of us that were supporting this game. I know the type of world I want to live in, one were all treated equal even if it mean thing I don't like have to be there as well. Can you guess with one block internet site and human rights.
plastictrees wrote:I must be super right wing if I think that establishing forced rape porn as a cultural touchstone has a negative impact, however small, on how women are perceived and treated in that society.
I know of a place were rape and images of it will get you killed, they also make women cover all the body when in public and they can't go out without a man going with them. I also know of a place were there allowed to run companys and aren't treated like property, you should see the thing they let the public see in there places. It is sick, even to most of us that were supporting this game. I know the type of world I want to live in, one were all treated equal even if it mean thing I don't like have to be there as well. Can you guess with one block internet site and human rights.
I guess you are ok with Child Pornography then? Plus, I love that you worldview has all the nuance of India Ink, where either rape is ok with everyone on all levels or a despotic, theocratic nightmare.
Also, rape gets you into trouble pretty much everywhere, so I'm not sure advocating this being a bad place becuase it doesn't allow rape is a very good argument. Are you sure you meant 'rape and images of rape'? I'm pretty sure even the designers of the game would not be on your side with the former.
I'm curious as to what line a project would have to cross for all of Dakka to agree that the project should be pulled.
Consider this:
A simple "trick taking" matching game is produced in which each player (3 or more) play the part of a cute, playful Schutzstaffel officer in 1940's Germany.
The simple mechanic is that you must match an adorable, pastel painted, anime-style Jew with a location in Germany, and a Sneaky Snatch action.
No summary executions, internment camps, or gas chambers are ever mentioned, implied, or otherwise suggested by the art, ad campaign, or literature that accompanies the game.
Would Kickstarter be obligated to pull a game with THIS theme?
redstripe wrote:I'm curious as to what line a project would have to cross for all of Dakka to agree that the project should be pulled.
Consider this:
A simple "trick taking" matching game is produced in which each player (3 or more) play the part of a cute, playful Schutzstaffel officer in 1940's Germany.
The simple mechanic is that you must match an adorable, pastel painted, anime-style Jew with a location in Germany, and a Sneaky Snatch action.
No summary executions, internment camps, or gas chambers are ever mentioned, implied, or otherwise suggested by the art, ad campaign, or literature that accompanies the game.
Would Kickstarter be obligated to pull a game with THIS theme?
I think Barbarossa, an established card game, actually comes fairly close to that description.
Edit:
Kind of hard to find safe-for-work pictures of that game
ceorron wrote:What I really don't like is the way kickstarter have gone about this. If they were going to do this they should have stepped in earlier made their point of view know and saved everyone a lot of wasted time.
...What I don't like is that they initially approved it and then later shut it down, that they didn't tell the project owner first, and appear to have done it to appease a few public critics...This is a big black eye for me for Kickstarter.
A more "glass half full" way of looking at it is that I'm actually glad they didn't give it the boot during the initial stages. Kickstarter gets way more hits than Sodapop does, hence the project got way more coverage/exposure than it ever would have if Sodapop would have gone it alone. I for one may not have heard about it for months for instance. Good on Sodapop for getting this thing off the ground despite the rough patch of road they encountered.
ceorron wrote:What I really don't like is the way kickstarter have gone about this. If they were going to do this they should have stepped in earlier made their point of view know and saved everyone a lot of wasted time.
...What I don't like is that they initially approved it and then later shut it down, that they didn't tell the project owner first, and appear to have done it to appease a few public critics...This is a big black eye for me for Kickstarter.
A more "glass half full" way of looking at it is that I'm actually glad they didn't give it the boot during the initial stages. Kickstarter gets way more hits than Sodapop does, hence the project got way more coverage/exposure than it ever would have if Sodapop would have gone it alone. I for one may not have heard about it for months for instance. Good on Sodapop for getting this thing off the ground despite the rough patch of road they encountered.
redstripe wrote:Would Kickstarter be obligated to pull a game with THIS theme?
The question and the hypothetical you described constitute a red herring.
Kickstarter's suspension of Tentacle Bento does not send a clear signal about where the line is.
The signal that Kickstarter sent to its customers (game designers as well as you and me) is this:
"There is a line. We choose not to disclose it, as that would not be in our interests. But we may enforce it when you're $30,000 into your project despite us having given you the go ahead in the first place."
So really the lesson here is that it is not good to be a customer of Kickstarter.
There's a lot of talk in this thread about Kickstarter having the "right" to suspend projects. Sure they do. But let's look at what that really means.
The business of Kickstarter is connecting content creators with investors. When Kickstarter hosts Company X's project and I back it, I am not Company X's customer. Rather, I am Company X's investor. Meanwhile, I am also Kickstarter's customer. And Company X is Kickstarter's customer.
By refusing to connect certain creators with investors, Kickstarter is exercising its right not to do business with anyone that wants to do business with them. Again, that's cool. There's no need to dream up a card game trivializing the Holocaust to make that point acceptable.
Kickstarter's right to do business with the customers it chooses is NOT at stake. What is at stake is the credibility of Kickstarter. In peddling its services, the connection of creators and investors, Kickstarter makes a lot of claims to advocating creativity. As of this post, the top banner on their homepage reads "Fund & Flow Creativity."
By exercising its right to deal with some projects and not others, Kickstarter is undermining this claim. As a customer of Kickstarter, my take away is "this business does not actually provide me with the service that it advertises."
In this case, it's not just me, Manchu, who is not being well-served as a customer. As I mentioned earlier, the message that Kickstarter has sent in this instance is that they may or may not be able to provide services to any potential customer (whether creator or investor) ... but there's really no way to know whether they will or not.
If I were a creator, I would never use Kickstarter after this because I would learn from this situation that it is not necessarily a stable connection to my potential investors. Kickstarter could step in at any time and exert the very thing that it is selling to me -- namely, freedom from third-party control of funding.
As an investor in terms of crowd sourcing, I will never use Kickstarter again because of the same reason. Kickstarter sold me the idea that they would help me establish direct contact with the content providers that I wanted to help succeed. But they have now shown that they are really a middle man, and a fickle one at that.
Just one more time for anyone who may have missed it: I don't need Kickstarter to tell me that it's okay with Tentacle Bento or that it's not okay with it. The thing that I am paying them for is for them NOT to weigh in on questions like that. So by weighing in, they have actually rendered their own service value-less to me.
plastictrees wrote:I'm impressed that people have somehow managed to turn finding the objectification of women and implied rape distasteful into "uptight puritanism". I must be super right wing if I think that establishing forced rape porn as a cultural touchstone has a negative impact, however small, on how women are perceived and treated in that society.
Since you're posting here, I'm going to assume you play 40k, WFB, Warmahordes or any other wargame available now. Which doesn't make you super right wing, but does makes you a hypocrite since you don't seem to think establishing brutally murdering people for the sake of it as a cultural touchstone has a negative impact, however small, on how we approach aggressions and violent crime as a society.
Then again I'm a something something nerd staking claim to something, so why would you care what I have to say, amrite?
redstripe wrote:Would Kickstarter be obligated to pull a game with THIS theme?
I would expect such a game to fail on its own merits, without Kickstarter lifting a finger.
Even if it did not, Kickstarter allowing a Holocaust card game to be funded through Amazon FPS would make me more inclined to use that service. Not because I have any fondness for the Nazis or their idiot worshippers, but because a money transfer provider that will not exert editorial control over legal purchases - even ones as offensive as a Holocaust card game - is one I trust more not to pull the same kind of stunt when it really matters.
Yeah, don't like it don't pledge. I thought the card game was pretty damn stupid and it's not at all the sort of thing I'd be interested in. So I wouldn't pledge any funds for it, and I wouldn't buy it. That's as far as I go. If enough people want it enough, they'll pay for it. That's up to them. I of course reserve the right to judge the hell out of them for having such poor taste
This is a silly action by Kickstarter, and makes them look foolish as they just chose Tentacle Bento as one of their staff picks for funding. That said, Kickstarter is a privately-owned company, and of course they can do as they please. I suspect they made this choice from a purely economic standpoint. Kickstarter is seen as a darling of the creative arts community, and negative publicity/boycotts would have hurt Amazon's bottom line. That's fine, but again, I'm dissapointed and it makes them look foolish.
Someone earler mentioned the now-infamous Penny Arcade Dickwolves comic strip as another example of a vocal group shouting down or quashing ideas/art/humor they find offensive. I don't see a huge difference between a game like this and controversial artwork. I wouldn't go to see a crucifix in a jar of urine, but I wouldn't deny anyone else the right to see it either.
I believe in a free discourse, and in allowing the market to decide these matters. If the negative publicity for Tentacle Bento is severe, it will hurt Sodapop. That is fair. In this case, a large audience has already pledged money to the project. Let's allow Sodapop to decide if they wish to take the risk of going forward. I wish Sodapop luck in their own funding efforts.
