Are words like Lasgun or lascannon pronounced. Laz-gun or laze-gun?

Laze-Gun is how I pronouce it. Like Laser with the R and Gun with... umm... Gun?

Laz-gun and laz-cannon. Lassgun and Lasscannon sound weird.

Its obviously Lays-Cannon and it Makes a Noise Like FREEM!

(Srs though, its Laz Or Las, not Laes)

In Dawn of War, it makes a noise like Fazz-ew-a!

Cheese Elemental wrote:In Dawn of War, it makes a noise like Fazz-ew-a!

Clearly Relic don't know anything about Lays-Cannons and the Power of the FREEM!

in DOW it was also a fast firing weapon.

Only on IG heavy weapon teams. It fires much slower on Sentinels and other vehicles.

Still Ridiculous for it to fire that fast.

Lahs or Laz, or however you want to put it.

Layscannon sounds like a gun that shoots chips...

"Commissar! There's a Defiler coming towards us!"
"Well fire the Lays-Cannon!"
"What flavour sir?"
"Chicken!!!"

Yeah. Laz.

I say the long A sounding one... Lays...

Well, considering the main source of this argument is all about the pronunciation of the word "laser" we need to remember, way way back, that the word "laser" is actually an acronym, and therefore, has only one actual pronunciation which would be "L-A-S-E-R" (el ay ess ee ar). If we want to go that way, both are wrong and it is actually L-A-S gun.

Pronouncing acronyms depends on how it is being used in conjunction with other words or acronyms (trust me, I'm in the Army, we have more acronyms than we know what to do with, I have a two inch thick book for the acronyms). So I pronounce it lazz-gun/cannon/pistol/light.

I don't have my Uplifting Primer or Munitorium Manual on hand - it's ok kids, I'm a Commissar, I don't have to have it on me all the time, you do though - so I can't check to see if the Lahs/Laz/not-Lays/gun fires a coherent beam of light, and is actually a Laser, or is more of an energy gun, be it a plasma or particle beam weapon.

You're not a Commissar to me until Commissar Calgar gets back in your avatar.

Commissar Calgar has returned from his fishing trip, but is currently buying a house, so he's a little distracted at the moment.

IMO it is Lazcannon etc. It just sounds better. There is nothing in the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer or The Munitorum Manual suggesting pronunciation.

The OC-D

Well, I say it like las-gun.

I say lass gun , like Lassie

Laz-gun, because:
1) there's nothing in the spelling to suggest it's pronounced "lays", and
2) because it doesn't sound rediculous.

I say lass. I think that they don't have lazers in the future cos they're too far advanced. And guardsmen are all a big bunch of women, so firing lass-guns seems right to me!!

everyone else I know says lass-gun, and everyone can't be wrong!!

s.j.mccartney wrote:

everyone else I know says lass-gun, and everyone can't be wrong!!

everyone meaning yourself?
anyway laz is the was too go in any situation.

Lass-gun. There is no indication that it would be pronounced as "lace" or "lays".

Look at the other usage:

Long Las
Long Lass - Has a rich, concise sound to it. Sharp, and to the point.
Long Lace - It's not a shoe... or a boot... or a corset.
Long Lays - This just sounds too much like it would be followed up by "In the sun", "On the Beach", or "Hourly 'Donation'"

Las Lock
Lass Lock - Again, rich, snappy, crisp. Once more, it sounds like a weapon.
Lace Lock - Keep your shoes tied (or your daughter a virgin) with LaceLock. Point made?
Lays Lock - Protect yo' PO-TAY-TOES!

Laz!!! It sounds more futuristic then pronouncing your stupididly powerful gun 'lass' like its a girl!!!

Sound more futuristic by incorporating more "Z"s in your pronunciations!

The only arguement I have heard for "lays" has to do with "laser," which by the fluff is an arguable subject (lasers have entirely negligible recoil and stopping power [force of impact], are silent, can only be seen if colored by their lighting medium, are not fired in bolts, etc...), and even if, it an acronym and is only properly pronounced by spelling it out!

Don't mess with me and my las-weapons... yo.... dog... dog diggity.... homme.

I pronounce it Laz-gun and regardless of how it is pronounced I always assumes it goes, "Peww-pew pew pewww"

Laz > Lays in my opinion. It sounds foreign and pleasant, and I've heard it said that way, so why not continue the tradition? Either way, it's a rifle that fires lasers, so why not a LaserRifle? But what kind of name is a Bolter? I I believe the Space Marines are not construction yard specialists -.-

I always say layzgun or layz cannon because I view it as a contraction of Lasergun or lasercannon and it is explained in the fluff that those weapons use laser technology.

Arschbombe wrote:I always say layzgun or layz cannon because I view it as a contraction of Lasergun or lasercannon and it is explained in the fluff that those weapons use laser technology.

Laser is an acronym, it has no "proper" pronunciation. So any time you modify it, you have to pronounce it in context to how it is spelled, that is assuming it is a contraction at all (I have never seen Laser-Gun used to describe a lasgun, even during Rogue Trader or 2nd Edition).

I have always thought it either sounds like "crack-crack-crack" like a dry limb snapping, or "pew-pew-pew," which is actually the sound I make when using a whole volley of them. Pew-pew-pew.

Since the humble Lasgun was originally based on the Dune Lasgun, I would look to that source for how to pronounce it. For Dune, it is pronounced lāz-gŭn. Thanks to the weakening of its power levels, I now pronounce it as flash-līt.

Id say its pronounced as Laaz gun , with a long "a" and the sound it makes would be akin to lightning just not as loud. Because it would burn the air where the shot was and then the air rushing back in would make the cracking noise.

Skinnattittar wrote:Laser is an acronym, it has no "proper" pronunciation. So any time you modify it, you have to pronounce it in context to how it is spelled, that is assuming it is a contraction at all (I have never seen Laser-Gun used to describe a lasgun, even during Rogue Trader or 2nd Edition).

LASER is the acronym. Laser is a word. Language evolves and LASER evolved into laser. You can confirm this by looking at any English dictionary. This has also given rise to verb forms of the root laser; to lase, lase, lased, lasing (all with the long a pronunciation).

temprus wrote:Since the humble Lasgun was originally based on the Dune Lasgun, I would look to that source for how to pronounce it. For Dune, it is pronounced lāz-gŭn.

This is what I was gonna toss off if no one else had gotten to it first.

But I still pronounce it more like laz-gun, I think its an American thing.

Jack

Lazz-gun and Lazz-cannon...like Jazz

Lays-gun just doesn't sounds right...course I'm from Maine and we talk funny anyway.

Laz-gun for me, thankyouverymuch! When you say it any other way, it sounds stupid. Lays-gun? Wait, what? Wouldn't that be a Slaaneshi weapon???

Lol. Pleh. Laz.

Since when has Las been pronounced Lays or lass??

Why not just plain simple Las (Laz)? Or is pronouncing it like its spelled just too simple??

Example: hi, im Larry.
Is that said Laysie?
No, Larry
Lassie?
F%@£ £*&( !~+&!!!!!!!

Plus, im going to fire my Laysgun sounds incredibly like you are going to shoot crisps at someone.

I'd have to agree, Lazz-gun flows better of of the tongue, which is much better than Lays/Laise-gun. I like the chips joke. Barbecue flavor would make more sense, though.

The Airman terrorized my signature as his avatar lol...

And it's LAZ, not Lays, not Lase, not Lass. Laz.

If it were to be pronounced Lase-gun, it would be spelled as such.

I carry a bag of potato chips around at all times, just in case there are any un-informed persons around pronouncing it Laysgun. I wish I was kidding.

LAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZgun

like Jazz, and RASpberry, and TASmanian devil, and HAS, and YAZ, and frakkin FRAZ god-frakkit!
lol

Love your signature too

Xanthos552 wrote:
Plus, im going to fire my Laysgun sounds incredibly like you are going to shoot crisps at someone.

They're called "chips" ya limey.

But yeah, I totally agree. Lazzzgun sounds a lot cooler and more natural than Lays-gun (trademark)

No, they are called Crisps my Colonial Friend

Now I'm hungry..thanks all.

ifyouseekamy wrote:
If it were to be pronounced Lase-gun, it would be spelled as such.

Hardly. This is English we're talking about. The language that gives you such phonetic marvels as:

Through
Bough
Cough
Tough
Bead
Dead

Anyway, I find it curious that whenever the Lase pronunciation is suggested in a thread like this, it always causes people to bring up Lays Potato chips. Lays should be very proud that their brand is so well known that it immediately comes to mind. Not sure what it says about the gamer community though.

Laz-gun.

What?

Don't you call them blazoogas?

'Tom ate oes' or 'Tom at oes'

Ever since the Colonials learnt how to spell, it's been a problem

As long as you follow the correct stats and don't mistake your LAZ for a mortar, you will be OK

Mik

Lord Castellan Mik wrote:'Tom ate oes' or 'Tom at oes'

Ever since the Colonials learnt how to spell, it's been a problem

Says the person from the big island of convicts...


But I jest. Actually, I get into these kinds of discussions rather frequently with a friend of mine in NSW. What I really find funny is when her accent starts to slip and she starts to pronounce words with a Cleveland accent, and then gets all annoyed with herself/me because of it.

Best part of that whole situation: She's lived in that part of the world for the vast majority of her life.


I guess my point here is this: Only people native to the Greater Cleveland/Akron/Canton, Ohio region pronounce anything in the English language properly and clearly. Our immigrant population and their reason for coming to this part of the country, forsaken hole that it is, is evidence to this.

And while we're here, it's a soft "s" and a short "a". Just because something is shortened doesn't mean that it retains its pronunciation. Case in point: Nobz. You know, short "o", pronounced like "knobs"... it's short for "nobles", which, if you hadn't noticed, has a long "o" and isn't pronounced like the Hamburglar is coming to stab you.

Dronze wrote:
Says the person from the big island of convicts...

I know it's not obvious... I was born and bred in the UK (Manchester) and was dragged screaming to this country by my parents when I was 16 free of charge (both financial and criminal), however, I now call Australia home.

I still, however, treat the colonials out here equally with the ones over there... the only true Australian or American is the native of that land... and not the multinational imigrants irregardless of how long they have lived there or what ship their ancesters fell out off.

Now jokes aside... I aggree with you that sci fi and fantasy name calling is often a contraction of other words and often not subject to pronunciation... and since GW is an ENGLISH company... then the English language should be the main definitive.

Mik

Lies, there is only 1 English person living in Australia and His name is Ben (Unless you happen to be Yahtzee, in which case my head will asplode)

I'm not just living here... I am maintaining the moral equilibrium and overall IQ of the whole country.

If I leave, the place will be a Chaos gods playground in no time at all

On the other hand... there is no way that I'm ever going back to Blighty... THIS is the land of golden honey.

And... on top of that... I have a friend called Ben and he IS English (as well)

Mik

In ten years of gaming I've never heard an English person call it a laysgun. It's our language, our rules. Lazgun.

Greebynog wrote:In ten years of gaming I've never heard an English person call it a laysgun. It's our language, our rules. Lazgun.

I couldn't have but it petter myself.

Gwar! wrote:No, they are called Crisps my Colonial Friend

Go drink some tea.
Seriously, crisps? No.

That one brand of English "Crisps" that starts with a W (the big one) really, really sucks. First time in the UK I bought some. It makes the top 10 biggest mistakes of my life.

Mad Rabbit wrote:

Gwar! wrote:No, they are called Crisps my Colonial Friend

Go drink some tea.
Seriously, crisps? No.

That one brand of English "Crisps" that starts with a W (the big one) really, really sucks. First time in the UK I bought some. It makes the top 10 biggest mistakes of my life.

LIES! Walkers are THE English Crisp!

Gwar! wrote:

Mad Rabbit wrote:

Gwar! wrote:No, they are called Crisps my Colonial Friend

Go drink some tea.
Seriously, crisps? No.

That one brand of English "Crisps" that starts with a W (the big one) really, really sucks. First time in the UK I bought some. It makes the top 10 biggest mistakes of my life.

LIES! Walkers are THE English Crisp!

More like THE English CRAP! Haha!
No but seriously let's try to go further and further off topic.

Laaaaaz. Gun.

Laysecannons go Freem!

Lord Castellan Mik wrote:
I still, however, treat the colonials out here equally with the ones over there... the only true Australian or American is the native of that land... and not the multinational imigrants irregardless of how long they have lived there or what ship their ancesters fell out off.

Just to keep this going... I didn't migrate here. I was born here. Not only was I born here, I've lived here my entire life. In that span of time (nearly 25 years), there hasn't been some massive degree of social or societal upheaval or influx.

I am a native American. My ethnic background puts my ancestral lineage into a whole bunch of countries/territories where the booze is best (Germany, Russia, Ireland, and a handful of others), but I was born here and raised here, no matter what a bunch of hucksters in powdered wigs and funny clothes did to influence the social changes that eventually led to America being the country it is today.


Anyhow... Like I said, short 'a', soft 's', and a severe lack of Umlaut.

Dronze wrote:I am a native American.

No, you are an American who is a Descendent of Colonising Europeans. You are no More a Native American than I am a Native Nigerian because my (long long ago) Ancestors came from there.

Gwar! wrote:

Dronze wrote:I am a native American.

No, you are an American who is a Descendent of Colonising Europeans. You are no More a Native American than I am a Native Nigerian because my (long long ago) Ancestors came from there.

*headshake* Note a lack of capitalization on my part.

Don't make me dig out the dictionary to win this one, as, if you trace it back far enough, we're all from Africa/the Middle East.

Mad Rabbit wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Mad Rabbit wrote:

Gwar! wrote:No, they are called Crisps my Colonial Friend

Go drink some tea.
Seriously, crisps? No.

That one brand of English "Crisps" that starts with a W (the big one) really, really sucks. First time in the UK I bought some. It makes the top 10 biggest mistakes of my life.

LIES! Walkers are THE English Crisp!

More like THE English CRAP! Haha!
No but seriously let's try to go further and further off topic.

Laaaaaz. Gun.

Oh, it is SO on!

By the standard presented here there are no natives in England either. They all migrated from somewhere else. Current genealogical testing indicates that the "original" Britons hailed from what is now Spain. Then there were waves of invaders/settlers from the germanic tribes the Angles and the Saxons followed by the Normans who were themselves Norsemen that had settled in France previously.

Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.

"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.

Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.

I like the lasgun (pronounced lazgun) over the lazegun (pronounced lazeygun).....

Well, Lascannon to me is LAZcannon. The others I can only think... Who cares? I'd rather not worry about how to pronounce a flashlight... In fact, I'd RATHER be armed with a flashlight in war!

Skinnattittar wrote:Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.

"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.

Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.

Open a dictionary and be enlightened. Laser and the derivative forms are all actual English words just like any other. Just because you are unaware of a fact, does not make that fact into fiction. The oxford English dictionary lists around 500,000 English words. Do you know them all?

Most modern tanks are equipped with laser range finders. In the crew drills performed by US crews, determining the range to the target using that laser range finder is called, wait for it, lasing. The commander gives the command "Gunner, Sabot, Tank." This command tells the gunner to configure the controls for sabot ammunition and that his target is a tank. When the gunner spots the target in his sight he responds with "Identified." The commander then uses the range finder and says "lasing." The resulting distance is automatically fed to the ballistic computer.

Poor arschbombe. All of his carefully constructed arguments are falling on deaf ears, as the unwashed masses go with what sounds good.

Which is, naturally, lazzz. I'll call the pretend guns what I want, thank you very much.

Arschbombe wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.

"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.

Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.

Open a dictionary and be enlightened. Laser and the derivative forms are all actual English words just like any other. Just because you are unaware of a fact, does not make that fact into fiction. The oxford English dictionary lists around 500,000 English words. Do you know them all?

Most modern tanks are equipped with laser range finders. In the crew drills performed by US crews, determining the range to the target using that laser range finder is called, wait for it, lasing. The commander gives the command "Gunner, Sabot, Tank." This command tells the gunner to configure the controls for sabot ammunition and that his target is a tank. When the gunner spots the target in his sight he responds with "Identified." The commander then uses the range finder and says "lasing." The resulting distance is automatically fed to the ballistic computer.

Refer to my above post and as follows... Who cares? I think the point of the thread was more to see an opinion on waht people think than show off your dictionary skills and knowledge outside of 40k. Honestly, more people (it seems) like laz, so forget it and move on.

As said before... Lasgun was derived from "Dune"... a search of Wikki, gives the following info (related to pronunciation and laser - the word, not natives)

A lasgun (pronounced lāz-gŭn) is a fictional directed-energy weapon in the fictional Dune universe created by Frank Herbert. In Terminology of the Imperium, the glossary of the novel Dune, Herbert provides the following definition:

LASGUN: continuous-wave laser projector. Its use as a weapon is limited in a field-generator-shield culture because of the explosive pyrotechnics (technically, subatomic fusion) created when its beam intersects a shield.

In WH 40K; Lascannon: The Lascannon's beam produces a myriad of energetic side effects, including significant muzzle flash, more rarely seen in standard Lasguns, owing to the correspondingly greater power put into the laser emitter and consequent increase in plasma blooming.

The lasgun uses the same basic technology and operates along the same lines as other las weapons, emitting a beam of focused light.

Las weapons or Laser weapons is a name given to all Imperial and some xeno laser based weapons.

So, it's origin is 'lazgun'... you can pronounce it any way that you like, but it was created LAZ

Mik

The lasguns in Dune are like cannons though, huge freaking guns that have to be mounted on ornithopters, IIRC. Ironic, no?

why not call it a blinky flash miss stick cos thats all they ever seem to do at the critical moment .......

Says the guy who plays Space Marines in dresses.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Says the guy who plays Space Marines in dresses.

qft
lol

Although I play Ultras, I still find the DA's fetching in their "Robes"... (counts as 'posh frock')

And, in 40K, we have las pistol / gun / cannon and these are in degrees of size... so, as they say, it's the LAZ not the size that counts

Mik

Then there's the naked water polo. OK, that's enough for now.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:
Refer to my above post and as follows... Who cares? I think the point of the thread was more to see an opinion on waht people think than show off your dictionary skills and knowledge outside of 40k. Honestly, more people (it seems) like laz, so forget it and move on.

The original question was not phrased as a matter of popularity. Rather it was a question about correctness. I have answered the question with facts and reasoned argument. The counter argument can be summed up as "But Lays is a brand of chips (or crisps) so it can't be that." Truly impressive. However, you can call the lasgun Raymond Luxury Yacht or Throat Warbler Mangrove for all I care.

I'll firmly stand around the pronunciation as "Lazz" Gun

Arschbombe wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.
"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.
Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.

Open a dictionary and be enlightened. Laser and the derivative forms are all actual English words just like any other. Just because you are unaware of a fact, does not make that fact into fiction. The oxford English dictionary lists around 500,000 English words. Do you know them all?
Most modern tanks are equipped with laser range finders. In the crew drills performed by US crews, determining the range to the target using that laser range finder is called, wait for it, lasing. The commander gives the command "Gunner, Sabot, Tank." This command tells the gunner to configure the controls for sabot ammunition and that his target is a tank. When the gunner spots the target in his sight he responds with "Identified." The commander then uses the range finder and says "lasing." The resulting distance is automatically fed to the ballistic computer.

First off, yes, I did open a dictionary and looked it up. It noted that it was not an "accepted derivative." As for tankers, well, I trained at Fort Knox with experienced tank crews, using laser range finders, both for tanks and for my advanced marksmanship training, and never once did anyone say the word "lase" or "lasing." The word "laser" was used, as in "laser that target," but we usually said "ranging" or "stone throwing" because our range finders weren't giving us proper ranges. But nobody ever said "lasing." I'll ask my tanker buddy if he ever used it, but my magic 8-ball says "outlook not good."

Second! Dictionaries are not the best source for finding out if words are actually real words by proper definition, just that those words exist and can be defined. "Ain't" and "gonna" among many other words, derivatives, phrases, conjoinments, contractions, etc are also in dictionaries, many and most of which are still not considered proper words or technically correct. Just because it shows up in a dictionary doesn't mean it is a real word either, just that it has a definition.

Third, my dictionary does not recognize "lase" and "lasing" as being directly related to "laser," just that it exists, and has to do with light, not with beams, focused light energy, that it is a derivative of laser, etc... Just that it was a word and has to do with light. Though many dictionaries have different definitions for words, sometimes quite drastic, reflecting the fact that dictionaries, although a generally reliable source of information, are not technically reliable as sources for finite information. This, of course, still doesn't change the fact that both of your versions in which the "las-" of "laser" is followed by either the "e" or the gerund "-ing" which make the open "a" sound, or "lay-s-". Note that "lasgun" is not followed by an "e" or a conjugation that would make it an open "a," and since it is followed by two consonants instead, then it should be pronounced with a closed "a."

Skinnattittar wrote:
First off, yes, I did open a dictionary and looked it up. It noted that it was not an "accepted derivative." As for tankers, well, I trained at Fort Knox with experienced tank crews, using laser range finders, both for tanks and for my advanced marksmanship training, and never once did anyone say the word "lase" or "lasing." The word "laser" was used, as in "laser that target," but we usually said "ranging" or "stone throwing" because our range finders weren't giving us proper ranges. But nobody ever said "lasing." I'll ask my tanker buddy if he ever used it, but my magic 8-ball says "outlook not good."

FM 3-20.12 Abrams Tank Gunnery uses lase and lasing in numerous places throughout:

"Immediately after lasing, the gunner should.."

"After having lased..."

"Figure 9-1. Sight Picture for Lasing on Troops Using Last Return Logic."

"The gunner must not forget to dump lead after re-lasing."

Second! Dictionaries are not the best source for finding out if words are actually real words by proper definition, just that those words exist and can be defined. "Ain't" and "gonna" among many other words, derivatives, phrases, conjoinments, contractions, etc are also in dictionaries, many and most of which are still not considered proper words or technically correct. Just because it shows up in a dictionary doesn't mean it is a real word either, just that it has a definition.

What strange dictionaries do you have that include fake words and their fake definitions? How do you know which words are the real ones and which ones are the fake ones that you can safely ignore? What about onomatopoeia? Is that a real word or a fake one? Looks fake to me.

When I do a simple search online I get results like:


lase /leɪz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [leyz] Show IPA
–verb (used without object), lased, las⋅ing. Optics.
to give off coherent light, as in a laser.
Origin:
1960–65; back formation from laser

lase (lāz)
v. lased, las·ing, las·es
v. intr.
To function as a laser; emit coherent radiation by the action of a laser.
v. tr.
1. To subject to laser light: lased the tissue during surgery.
2. To direct a laser used to guide munitions at (a target).
[Back-formation from laser.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

lase (lāz)
v. lased, las·ing, las·es
To cut, divide, or dissolve a substance with a laser.
The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary

Merriam-Webster.com gives:
Main Entry: lase
Pronunciation: \ˈlāz\
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): lased; las·ing
Etymology: back-formation from laser
Date: 1962
: to emit coherent light

This fake word has been creeping around in dictionaries for almost 50 years. Someone better do something.

Arschbombe wrote:This fake word has been creeping around in dictionaries for almost 50 years. Someone better do something.

Clearly GW Proofreaders have been infiltrating our Nations Dictionary Staff!

Still have never heard a tanker say the word "lasing" or "lase" was never trained to say "lasing" or "lase."

As for the dictionaries, I never said "fake," which would imply that those words did not exist. I said, in more words, that dictionaries include words which are not properly words. This can also be applied to training manuals. Read some of them, you will notice a lot of words that shouldn't be there, I have actually read "gonna" and "ain't" in some of the newer manuals and training pamphlets. Sometimes words are made up for convenience, which may or may not be the case with "lase."

Now, I will admit, if it is in fact a word that has been in the dictionaries since 1962, and is infact perhaps a proper word. It still stands, after having worked with laser in both as a technology (physics practices), as a tool (working in with a laser punch press, lathe, and mill), and as a weapon (range finder), I still have never heard anyone say "lase" or "lasing." Even being in an Army training manual, it may simply be an antiquated word which might explain why I have never heard it (please don't pull out a research paper, having read many of them I can attest to having found many authors making up or improperly modifying words so they can create variety, whether they knew they may have been real or not).

You have proven that lase and lasing are in the dictionary, have definitions, and are perhaps even proper words and in common use today, I will no longer refute that, I can not say they definitively are not.

However, as far as in the word "lasgun," it is not "lasegun." There is a distinct lack of the letter "e" in that entire word, "lasgun." Again, "lasgun" and "lasEgun." One has an "e," and the other does not. As mentioned before, laser is actually an acronym, whether it some have considered it to have evolved into a non acronym or not, there are still no conjugations of laser that omit the "r" (I have heard "lasering" or "lasered" but I don't know if those are proper words...), lase and lasing are, as you have noted and I have noticed in my dictionaries, are "back formations," not conjugations. Back formations are actions of convenience or mistaken understanding, and although there are many examples (the one I always remember is "resurrect" and "resurrection"), it is, from what I understand, not technically acceptable grammar.

Standard issue Flashlight.

If you're lucky, itll blind someone long enough for the Space Marines to come and steal all the glory.


Seriously though, I pronounce it laz. Lassgun sounds like itll be firing small women at the enemy......

and I dont wanna talk about a Lasscannon...

Skinnattittar wrote:
However, as far as in the word "lasgun," it is not "lasegun." There is a distinct lack of the letter "e" in that entire word, "lasgun." Again, "lasgun" and "lasEgun." One has an "e," and the other does not. As mentioned before, laser is actually an acronym, whether it some have considered it to have evolved into a non acronym or not, there are still no conjugations of laser that omit the "r" (I have heard "lasering" or "lasered" but I don't know if those are proper words...), lase and lasing are, as you have noted and I have noticed in my dictionaries, are "back formations," not conjugations. Back formations are actions of convenience or mistaken understanding, and although there are many examples (the one I always remember is "resurrect" and "resurrection"), it is, from what I understand, not technically acceptable grammar.

The acronym was LASER. The language has moved on and for 50 years laser has been a word with the etymology shown as having come from LASER. The language adapts to changes in the culture. A few years ago google was just the name of a search engine and the parent company. It has morphed into a verb too (as of 2001): to google, googled, googling. Texting is another such development that comes to mind. To text became a verb in 1998.

Lase follows the same rules as phase, phrase, face etc

Lase, lased, lasing

phrase, phrased, phrasing

phase, phased, phasing

face, faced, facing.

You don't always need the e to guide pronunciation when the root form is understood and we know that in 40k, the humble lasgun and the powerful lascannon are both based on laser technology.

...But "lase-gun" sounds really, really, crap!

The Dreadnote wrote:...But "lase-gun" sounds really, really, crap!

I guess that makes it official. The imperium uses lazzers instead of lasers, well, except on the multilaser -someone must have missed the memo. It must have something to do with Old Night.

Lass. Not Laze. IMO.

Lazegun sounds terrible.

Its not Lass, its Laz (with no e)

Yep, Gwar is correct. Again.

When I hear someone say lazzgun it makes me think they should perhaps narfle the garthog.

@ Arsch : You will notice all those words you used have been conjugated. "Lase" is not a conjugation, as I said (which you seemed to have ignored), but is a back-formation, which are not always considered "proper" but, as you have pointed out and if still not part of the furthering of the discussion, repeated use may eventually become accepted, or at least be given a definition, please note that having a definition does not necessarily mean it is proper. Zerox seemed to have missed your list, and is perhaps the most famous of a brand/company name becoming a replacement word or verb (could you zerox this memo for me/could you copy this memo for me). However this is not considered proper, it is common, not usually shunned, but you wouldn't expect to find it in a technical manual (let us not harken back to your tanker TM for this, as you should notice I put "expect," which hadn't and in my career never heard used).

Now, as for lasguns, traditional lore has become hotly debated as to whether or not lasguns uses lasers. I think currently most who have informed themselves about lasguns feel that they are not (lasers have no recoil, only weak lasers are colored [lasguns are colored] where powerful lasers are on a wavelength not visible to the human eye, lasers are essentially silent, the list goes on and needs not be mentioned further in my opinion). Multilasers are supposed to be based on lasers, though there is scant written information about them in later GW material (in my experience, though I have not read all the books and current lore), and this thread is not about the pronunciation of Multi-laser.

What Arsch seems to be arguing is that "lasgun" is a back-formation of a back-formation that has had a word joining (sorry, forgot the technical term for it) with "gun," in the same way as shot gun became shotgun, or hand gun became handgun. However neither of those are back-formations, nor are they back-formations of back-formations, but just the root words conjoined.

I find both (or bolth) lassgun and lazgun acceptable, though where I live accents make them sound pretty much the same. I also accept "laysgun," but see it as people just trying to be a bit elite or having fun (as we have all heard this argument many a time before).

laz-gun. It would probably sound like the stormtrooper blasters from starwars IMHO

Skinnattittar wrote:@ Arsch : You will notice all those words you used have been conjugated. "Lase" is not a conjugation, as I said (which you seemed to have ignored), but is a back-formation, which are not always considered "proper" but, as you have pointed out and if still not part of the furthering of the discussion, repeated use may eventually become accepted, or at least be given a definition, please note that having a definition does not necessarily mean it is proper. Zerox seemed to have missed your list, and is perhaps the most famous of a brand/company name becoming a replacement word or verb (could you zerox this memo for me/could you copy this memo for me). However this is not considered proper, it is common, not usually shunned, but you wouldn't expect to find it in a technical manual (let us not harken back to your tanker TM for this, as you should notice I put "expect," which hadn't and in my career never heard used).

I find this harping on the back-formation origins to be irrelevant. There are many verbs that have come into the language by back-formation. It's a natural process of language evolution. I can't imagine English ever being full and unable to accept new words. Is your issue here that 50 years simply isn't long enough? That if the back-formation dates back to shakespeare then it's OK?

Now, as for lasguns, traditional lore has become hotly debated as to whether or not lasguns uses lasers. I think currently most who have informed themselves about lasguns feel that they are not (lasers have no recoil, only weak lasers are colored [lasguns are colored] where powerful lasers are on a wavelength not visible to the human eye, lasers are essentially silent, the list goes on and needs not be mentioned further in my opinion). Multilasers are supposed to be based on lasers, though there is scant written information about them in later GW material (in my experience, though I have not read all the books and current lore), and this thread is not about the pronunciation of Multi-laser.

Why does this have to become a dissertation on physics? It doesn't matter what lasers really do. This is 40k. The fluff makes a distinction between laser weaponry and plasma weaponry as part of the lore. The laser stuff is ubiquitous and the plasma stuff is rare. It doesn't matter if their descriptions of either technology actually match what our current understanding of the technology is. They're just borrowing from standard scifi cliches.

What Arsch seems to be arguing is that "lasgun" is a back-formation of a back-formation that has had a word joining (sorry, forgot the technical term for it) with "gun," in the same way as shot gun became shotgun, or hand gun became handgun. However neither of those are back-formations, nor are they back-formations of back-formations, but just the root words conjoined.

Back-formations are verbs. Lasgun is a compound word from laser + gun. I see it as an attempt to short-circuit the argument about what lasers can actually do and how much potential they have as actual weapons. This way when they describe it's capabilities you aren't immediately dismissive based on your understanding of lasers in the real world.

Why do you keep going back to the back formation of "lase?" Didn't I already state that perhaps you are correct? Or at very least, that "lase" is a valid back-formation? Have I been disagreeing with you that languages can evolve? Yes, languages can evolve, they can evolve into things like "Laz-gun" instead of "lays-gun" because the vast majority of players say it that way (though I can't back that theory up, but I would say in my experience nine out of ten say "laz-gun").

As for the lore, not since 2nd edition have lasguns been described as lasers, in fact they have been described as being different from lasers since their inception. Note that lack of ever calling lasbolts "rays" or "beams" or the like, mention of recoil, stopping power, being coherent in the sense that it actually has a mass and volume, something lasers have neither of (well, theoretically if you had enough power you could levitate a squirrel, but that would mean blacking out several large cities, and we really don't need squirrels with lasers.... hmmm.... squats....). But that aside....

You want evolution? Well you have already seen it but are resisting it because it isn't following a preconceived notion of what you think it should be evolving into. While others are using rules to support its evolution, ones that are 100% real, factual, and work, while others are making up new rules (back formation of a back formation, didn't notice any on that list of your's, but I didn't read everything on their, enough though to know that if the next word I read was a back formation of a back formation that it would be a rare case [and before you go out and note one near the top, I moved around the list, which, statistically, should make it just as likely for me to have spotted one]) or exaggerating current ones to fit an unpopular version of the word, if not completely ignoring an easier and simpler path, one with fewer steps, assumptions, and opposition.

If lasguns were laserguns, or even laseguns, then they probably should have written them that way. But they didn't, lasgun was written down, spurring an argument that has lasted... oh god, over twenty years I think! Either way, if lasgun was supposed to be laysgun it has evolved into lazgun, and this is one Guard player that will keep it alive that way for as long as they live.

And for me, that is the end of the argument. I am not claiming last words on it, just that unless someone can make an actual argument supported with simpler logic, then I don't see a need for repeat myself. I am not walking away either, I'll keep reading, I have no qualms about the ideas of others, but I think I have supported trolling more often than I logically should have, simply as a way of working off some pent up hostility by taking easy personal victories.

As always, xkcd have an answer for everything!

It would have to be "Las" or "Laz" gun. Simple reason: English linguistic rules state that in order for the "a" to make an "Ay" sound, there would have to be an "e" on the end of the word "Las". No "e" means that it's pronounced "Lahz" or "Lahs". Simple. Kindergarden. Lesson. We all learned that rule at age 5 if you live in an English speaking country.

Plus I'm pretty sure the original DoW has one of the Guard speech options yell "Lasguns (Lahzguns) at the ready!" when you ordered them to attack.

Skinnattittar wrote:Why do you keep going back to the back formation of "lase?" Didn't I already state that perhaps you are correct? Or at very least, that "lase" is a valid back-formation? Have I been disagreeing with you that languages can evolve? Yes, languages can evolve, they can evolve into things like "Laz-gun" instead of "lays-gun" because the vast majority of players say it that way (though I can't back that theory up, but I would say in my experience nine out of ten say "laz-gun").

You were the one making an issue of back formations as somehow less legitimate than other sources of new words. Is borrowing a word from latin or french really more proper than a verb back-formed from a noun?

I don't think it's evolved from a laysgun pronunciation to a lazzgun pronunciation over time. I think it's just been mispronounced from the outset by the majority of gamers because it's a made up word that does not occur in normal conversation. A lot of 40k terms have no clear pronunciation because they're made up words and English isn't a phonetic language. In the case of lasgun, I see it as gamers not making the connection between laser and lasgun and also being unaware that lasgun was borrowed from Frank Herbert's work where it was clearly indicated that the correct pronunciation is lasegun.

As for the lore, not since 2nd edition have lasguns been described as lasers, in fact they have been described as being different from lasers since their inception. Note that lack of ever calling lasbolts "rays" or "beams" or the like, mention of recoil, stopping power, being coherent in the sense that it actually has a mass and volume, something lasers have neither of (well, theoretically if you had enough power you could levitate a squirrel, but that would mean blacking out several large cities, and we really don't need squirrels with lasers.... hmmm.... squats....). But that aside....

The 4th edition IG codex talks about laser technology in the section where it describes the weapons, how simple and reliable it is. Interestingly, the current codex no longer does that. Instead it talks about lasgun technology. So maybe GW has decided to resolve it and make a distinction from the original Herbert and remove references to lasers and make the lazzgun something that has no relation to lasers anymore.

If lasguns were laserguns, or even laseguns, then they probably should have written them that way.

In this case I think precedent (Herbert) and flavor beat out clear pronunciation.

but I think I have supported trolling more often than I logically should have, simply as a way of working off some pent up hostility by taking easy personal victories.

You think I'm trolling?

I always said it "Lazz-gun".

I have friends that say it "Laze-gun". It is all down to preference, since without a pronunciation guide, it is open to interpretation.

There are enough points here worth replying.

Arschbombe wrote:The 4th edition IG codex talks about laser technology in the section where it describes the weapons, how simple and reliable it is. Interestingly, the current codex no longer does that. Instead it talks about lasgun technology. So maybe GW has decided to resolve it and make a distinction from the original Herbert and remove references to lasers and make the lazzgun something that has no relation to lasers anymore.

Well, I'll be dipped, you are correct there. Page 16 of the Codex Imperial Guard, 3rd Edition (of the codex) released during 3rd Edition (plenty months before 4th, designed for a build of 4th that never happened). It does mention laser technology, though, it does not say that about the lasgun, but while discussing the power pack, the "laser power pack" to be precise. Two inferences can be made here, that the lasgun is based on lasers, or that the power pack is based on lasers (yes, you can do that). While I will concede that this defuncts my statement, it is but a small oversight in the bigger picture, as "laser" is not but mentioned in the armory and equipment section of the 2nd edition Codex.

As for Frank Herbert, I have never read any of his novels, though I do know of Dune. Laser technology has been in science fiction before Frank Herbert was even born, however, and have carried many other names.

As for "my way is the only way of word evolution" talk, that speaks for itself in stability. More words have evolved due to either ignorance of proper pronunciation or complete change in how those people pronounced their own words. "English" itself is a bastardization of its original pronunciation. Basically, either it is a conjoinment of a back-formation of a back-formation (which again, I agree can create new words, but doubling it seems silly when simpler, just as or more viable reasons exist), that has not been re-pronounced, or it is something much simpler, a completely new word or modification of an existing acronym. In those cases it would be pronounced "laz-gun."

Skinnattittar wrote:Well, I'll be dipped, you are correct there. Page 16 of the Codex Imperial Guard, 3rd Edition (of the codex) released during 3rd Edition (plenty months before 4th, designed for a build of 4th that never happened). It does mention laser technology, though, it does not say that about the lasgun, but while discussing the power pack, the "laser power pack" to be precise. Two inferences can be made here, that the lasgun is based on lasers, or that the power pack is based on lasers (yes, you can do that). While I will concede that this defuncts my statement, it is but a small oversight in the bigger picture, as "laser" is not but mentioned in the armory and equipment section of the 2nd edition Codex.

It gets better. Take a look at page 61 of the third edition rulebook. It states "By far the most numerous weapons in the Imperial armoury are laser or las weapons." It also tries to answer your earlier physics question of how exactly a laser-based weapon can produce impact force on a target. "The short duration high energy beam produces such a rapid temperature change on the target's surface that it vapourises in a small explosion."

Admittedly this is old fluff and as such it is subject to being superseded by newer revisions and as I pointed out previously the new IG dex no longer makes reference to laser technology.

As for Frank Herbert, I have never read any of his novels, though I do know of Dune. Laser technology has been in science fiction before Frank Herbert was even born, however, and have carried many other names.

True, but specific to one word, lasgun, Herbert was the first and was very clear on its pronunciation.

Arschbombe wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:Well, I'll be dipped, you are correct there. Page 16 of the Codex Imperial Guard, 3rd Edition (of the codex) released during 3rd Edition (plenty months before 4th, designed for a build of 4th that never happened). It does mention laser technology, though, it does not say that about the lasgun, but while discussing the power pack, the "laser power pack" to be precise. Two inferences can be made here, that the lasgun is based on lasers, or that the power pack is based on lasers (yes, you can do that). While I will concede that this defuncts my statement, it is but a small oversight in the bigger picture, as "laser" is not but mentioned in the armory and equipment section of the 2nd edition Codex.

It gets better. Take a look at page 61 of the third edition rulebook. It states "By far the most numerous weapons in the Imperial armoury are laser or las weapons." It also tries to answer your earlier physics question of how exactly a laser-based weapon can produce impact force on a target. "The short duration high energy beam produces such a rapid temperature change on the target's surface that it vapourises in a small explosion."

Admittedly this is old fluff and as such it is subject to being superseded by newer revisions and as I pointed out previously the new IG dex no longer makes reference to laser technology.

I think it comes down to one thing:
Do lasguns laz things, or do they laze things?

Definitely and clearly las, not laze. Laze sounds close to "raze", implying that they can actually do damage. Quite the opposite.

las/laz sounds better and less cheesy

Canonness Rory wrote:I think it comes down to one thing:
Do lasguns laz things, or do they laze things?

One thing they don't do is resurrect 2 month old threads...

Aw jeez and he roped me into it as well.

It's L-A-Y-S like the thing on the shoe the LACE...not LAS. And btw. the sound is PHEEEEW not crackcrackcrack....are you high???

This thread is old.
Laz.

ph34r wrote:This thread is old.
Laz.

Lays

LAZ!

To reiterate: laysgun sounds crap. Lazgun does not.

Wow this is probaly the sadiest thread in forum history, but i thinks it is laz-gun, everyone at my LGW says it that ways, and ive never heard different into now.

LAYS THIS THREAD IS BULL !!!

In DOW lasguns make this weird cracking/clicking sound like czzzink!

Laz

Eenbehfarlock

DarkHound wrote:Laz

Eenbehfarlock

I see what you did there.

Clearly it's now a race to see which wording is last in the thread before it gets locked.

Lazzzzzz

temprus wrote:Since the humble Lasgun was originally based on the Dune Lasgun, I would look to that source for how to pronounce it. For Dune, it is pronounced lāz-gŭn. Thanks to the weakening of its power levels, I now pronounce it as flash-līt.

People are having a few problems with this issue.

One, lāz does not rhyme with Jazz (jaz) or Razz (raz), only in the form of Lazz (laz) would it.
Two, lāz would be pronounced lays as in Maze (māz), Raze (rāz), etc. or the chip maker's name.
Three, Lazz-Gun IS more "manly". I prefer lazz over lays myself.
Four, I still say you pronounce it flash-līt though.

It is pronounced

Lays, like the potato chips.

Listen Guys it's LAYS the sound is PHEEEW and im out of this thread G'night!