For me, it was the penultimate (= 4th ed) Chaos Space Marine codex.

wuestenfux wrote:For me, it was the penultimate (= 4th ed) Chaos Space Marine codex.

+1 to that. Amazing book, enormous possibility, huge customizability, great art (Adrian Smith ftw), and pretty mean to boot.

- Salvage

I like the new IG codex.

Codex Craftworlds.

Current Ork codex is lovely.

Codex: Angels of Death and Codex Imperialis should come back in a big way.

I suspect it's cheating but Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned.

Imperial Armour 4.

The current Ork codex.

+1 to 4th ed chaos

(although the current ork codex is nice)

Dark Eldar.

Do you guys mean the 3.5ed Chaos book or the current one that came out in 4th ed?

I like the new Ork book. Made them competitive for hte first time since Speed Freeks.

But this time there is more than one build to the army that has a shot at doing well in spite of Ork weirdness

Yeah, the good Chaos Codex came out during 3rd Ed. The current gakky one came out during 4th.



Best Codex was the second 3rd Ed Chaos Codex, or the 3.5 Codex if you want to call it that. I'm also very fond of the current Marine and Ork Codices, the 2nd Ed Tyranid Codex, IA4 (as mentioned above) and I think the Inquisitorial Codices were inspired (which earmarks them for Jervis-i-fi-cation no doubt).

Worst is undoubtably that abomination of a Chaos Codex that Chaos players are stuck with no, followed by Codex: Unnecessary aka Codex: Daemons.

Well, I've only been around since November last year, so my insight is pretty shortsighted, but I'd have to say of all the currently used Codecies so far, the best written one would probably be Eldar.

It's a well balanced codex that has plenty of very different, very viable options, and caters itself to many different playstyles. And despite showing its age, it manages to still play quite well thanks to some well-written rules. It's not blatantly overpowered or underpowered either.

Worst would be, IMO, Daemonhunters. Sure, Dark Eldar is older, and has some really outdated rules, but Daemonhunters is also really freaking old, but was already poorly written when it was made. Now it's just stupid.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, the good Chaos Codex came out during 3rd Ed. The current gakky one came out during 4th.

Best Codex was the second 3rd Ed Chaos Codex, or the 3.5 Codex if you want to call it that. ... and I think the Inquisitorial Codices were inspired (which earmarks them for Jervis-i-fi-cation no doubt).

Those are my two favorites.

Well, I guess that's 3, but...

Best: 4th Edition Imperial Guard, Rogue Trader Compendium (Marines, Guard, Squats in one book).

Flawed diamonds: 2nd Edition Eldar, 4th Edition Chaos Space Marines, Inquisitorial Codices (WH & DH)

George Spiggott wrote:Best: 4th Edition Imperial Guard, Rogue Trader Compendium (Marines, Guard, Squats in one book).

I also liked that compendium with the eldar and the genestealer cults in it, has a picture of bloodangels surrounded by genestealers on the cover. Bloody amazing Jes Goodwin pic of the Avatar in it.

3.5 Chaos Marines.

Best ever in my opinion was definitely ver 3.5 CSM. my second favorite was the ver 4.0 SM. Worst ever is the new CSM seeing there is only one viable list and the background was utterly destroyed. My favorite ver 5.0 is daemons... Something completely wicked and new plus there are lots of viable lists (even if the majority dont realize it).

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Worst ever is the new CSM seeing there is only one viable list and the background was utterly destroyed.

But because it has less options it has more options, and because there are less lists it is more flexible! (/JHDD)

Im gonna have to say Index astartes were my favorites they gave marine armies actual character instead of this pitiful marine codex that lets you mix vulkan with cantor or shrike, or lysander with calgar... horrible. Codex craftworld eldar was also the bomb although i really really hated alaitoc armies lol dam that disruption table!

I liked the Ork Speed Freaks.

The Chaos codex with legions which everyone seems in love with was terrible in my opinion.

Actually writing a list without the aid of army builder was allmost impossible.



As for best codex.. I think the current Marine codex is pretty good, apart from the binding!

Best current codex is Eldar - only Phil Kelly could have written a Jervis-spec book (Lots of special characters, no optional army lists like the old craftworld supplement) and still have produced a book that lets you create well-themed, craftworld-specific armies without being forced to take special characters to do so.

Best ever codex - anything produced for rogue trader. Anyone remember Chaos when it was StD and LatD? or Orks with Waagh! and Freebooterz?

Where did all the character go?

5th edition Codex: Space Marines.

Neil wrote:The Chaos codex with legions which everyone seems in love with was terrible in my opinion.

Actually writing a list without the aid of army builder was allmost impossible.



As for best codex.. I think the current Marine codex is pretty good, apart from the binding!

That's the point.
Some players favor codices that have armory and require some brain to write a good list.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Codex Craftworlds.

I find it strange that you say Chaos Legions were an abomination, then go on to say Craftworlds were great when they were more or less the same thing.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:Best: 4th Edition Imperial Guard, Rogue Trader Compendium (Marines, Guard, Squats in one book).

I also liked that compendium with the eldar and the genestealer cults in it, has a picture of bloodangels surrounded by genestealers on the cover. Bloody amazing Jes Goodwin pic of the Avatar in it.

You are thinking of Compilation. Although I have never played with it I do have read it. Very characterfull.

My personal favourite would be the black codex, the little one in the second edition starter box.

Can't believe noone has mentioned rogue trader itself yet.

+1 to 3.5 CSM

that + LATD was great

Codex Eye of Terror.


GG

I still think Dark Eldar is the best, simply because after umpteen million years of no updates, it's still a competitive army. If that's not the mark of a well written codex, I don't know what is.

Dark Eldar and the previous Chaos Codex!

In terms of reading, pretty much everything was better in 3rd/4th. I hate the current DA/SM codex where Im reading the army list details, and it has some special rule or equipment that I then have to flip back to the entry in the fluff section. Same for the wargear section. Oh you want to know what the teleport homer does? yea F you go back to page 27.

I found the eye of terror book enjoyable, as well as the index astartes books where fun.

As far as ease for reading ect.

I would have to say the Tau codex. everything is right there in the unit entry. No double unit entries, one for fluff/special rules and one for points/wargear.

The wargear section is all pretty easy to understand as well.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I find it strange that you say Chaos Legions were an abomination, then go on to say Craftworlds were great when they were more or less the same thing.

While at the same time complaining that his Dogs of War lost their book, whilst telling all the LatD players to use 'Counts As'.

My theory is that in the town DD is from, consistency is actually a crime, punishable by castration. And if they find you guilty of using any sort of logic, you will be put to death. It's the only way to explain his illogical and inconsistent behaviour.

Nah, I think he just owes a lot of victories to ol'codex craftworld and is willing to give it the props it earned.

I'll go in for the current Tyranid book as best.

^ We have a winnah!

It was kinda stupid how much I won under Craftworlds.

I love the new guard a lot , But I had blast with there last book as well , nothing like the look on my opponents face when I had 200 guard deep strike on the table which contained about 30 plasma guns and 20 melta oh and six demo charges .

I am so torn about the new ork codex. 90% of it is an incredible improvement over the old codex. There are some critical flaws with some units, but I can't help but actually really want to try each unit.
The simple fact is Orks can be VERY good in the hands of a skilled player. It has a few glaring flaws that will leave it hopeless against certain armies though. The skill is in maximizing their strengths while overcome the weakness.

Besides the CSM book I like the old Space Wolf book and the old Blood Angels book. Great originality to get away from Smurfs.

Other than that, EoT.

JohnHwangDD wrote:^ We have a winnah!

It was kinda stupid how much I won under Craftworlds.

So you hated the Chaos Legions because you couldn't win with them when everyone else could? That's a pretty weak excuse.

Cheese Elemental wrote:So you hated the Chaos Legions because you couldn't win with them when everyone else could? That's a pretty weak excuse.

I'm pretty sure that's not what he's saying Cheese.

As for what he is saying, well that's anyone's guess. Anyone speak "DD"?

No, I simply didn't play Chaos Legions at all.

I played Eldar. I beat Chaos Legions.

I'm sure, had I wanted to play Chaos Legions, I'd have done just fine.

But that doesn't change the fact that my biggest winning streak was with the Craftworld Codex.

So, for pure ass-kicking, I give the nod to Codex: Craftworlds.

You said you played Iron Warriors. Want me to dig up the thread for you?

He also said that LatD hadn't lost their list and that Codex: Guard were their list and that we should all use 'counts as' all the while bitching that his precious Dogs of War Army Book wasn't getting an update. Then he changed his tune to say LatD should have a list and shouldn't've lost theirs.

He's also interpreted "best codex" to mean "one I won the most with", which so far no one else in this thread has managed to do yet. I find that quite interesting, especially given he loves a Codex full of variant lists and options (yet the current Chaos Codex has more options and more flexibility despite losing all its sub-lists and army options according to him... gah... it's enough to make your fething brain melt).

Don't argue with a wall Cheese, especially a wall that changes its colours every 5 seconds.

Cheese Elemental wrote:You said you played Iron Warriors. Want me to dig up the thread for you?

No, I said I tried playing my previous-edition Fallen Angels using Iron Warriors rules as the best match for a 3.0 MoCU Veteran/Havoc army.

I don't see a single game as playing Legions. Expecially if the army goes up on the shelf and then on the block as a result.

I did a crapload more playing and winning under Eldar Craftworlds. I also did a a lot more playing as Drop Guard as my primary army for 4th. And with a whole 2 consecutive games in under the new Eldar Codex for 5th, I've now exceeded the playing and interest that Chaos Legions ever held.

So from a factual POV, Craftworlds was better for me than Legions ever was.

The new Space Marine Codex is excellent because it gives you a base that you can apply to so many different play styles with or without the chapter tactics of the special characters. Sicarius is ridiculously good!!

But it didn't envelope and overrun the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves, etc by trying to include them...Perfect!!

Eldar lost their craftworlds...poor frail xenos with Str 3, you'll never wound us!!

Codex Angels of Death, Codex Armegeddon?, and Chaos 3.5. For Fluff ROC books.

Come one, come all, and witness with your own two eyes a form of 'logic' that comes not from our world, but from a different world, a world of inconsistencies:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I did a crapload more playing and winning under Eldar Craftworlds. I also did a a lot more playing as Drop Guard as my primary army for 4th. And with a whole 2 consecutive games in under the new Eldar Codex for 5th, I've now exceeded the playing and interest that Chaos Legions ever held.

Translation:

I played Craftworld therefore Legions were bad, or, to break it down further - Opinion stated as fact.

*wipes tear*

Never change Jonny. This place just wouldn't be the same.

I am not a big fan of the Space Marine Codex as it just says " Okay here is some stuff that changes when you take this dude".

Imperial Guard on the other hand is a excellent book all around.

Hollismason wrote:I am not a big fan of the Space Marine Codex as it just says " Okay here is some stuff that changes when you take this dude".

If it weren't linked to mandatory non-special Special Characters, would you have a different opinion?

Ketara wrote:I still think Dark Eldar is the best, simply because after umpteen million years of no updates, it's still a competitive army. If that's not the mark of a well written codex, I don't know what is.

I'll admit, I love the competitiveness of the DE codex, insofar as that goes it has really stood the test of time. However, I'm not sure I can in good conscience support a codex with about four pages of actual fluff in it. I think a good codex should scratch my itch for awesome army lists as well as providing some richer depth into the race I will soon be crushing my foes with.

I may have to second that vote for Codex: Eye of Terror, that was a pretty sweet codex all around. Pretty much all the old old stuff was great too, but I'll admit though I loved all the old crazy rules I do love how much more streamlined the rules have become just insomuch as I think my opponents and I less often find ourselves saying "oh wait, didn't my unit have the ability to..." about two rounds too late.

My thoughts,
Thor.

+1 for 3.5 CSM (the good one).

4e marines, 3.5e CSM were both good.

Until IG - the current best, I would have voted CSM (the current one yes, 4th). I had the old one, and the stupid restrictions of "this cant go with that" were just annoying.

Its apparently an unpopular view to like the current codex, but Ive never been popular.

darkkt wrote:... the stupid restrictions of "this cant go with that" were just annoying.

Yes, having to choose between chocolate ice cream, strawberry ice cream, honeycomb ice cream and rocky road was so difficult, especially as you weren't allowed to take all four at the same time. Good thing Ice Cream Workshop came along, took away all those flavours and just gave us a single one - vanilla - to choose from. No more silly restrictions, because there's no actual choice to be made!!!!!!!!!!!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

darkkt wrote:... the stupid restrictions of "this cant go with that" were just annoying.

Yes, having to choose between chocolate ice cream, strawberry ice cream, honeycomb ice cream and rocky road was so difficult, especially as you weren't allowed to take all four at the same time. Good thing Ice Cream Workshop came along, took away all those flavours and just gave us a single one - vanilla - to choose from. No more silly restrictions, because there's no actual choice to be made!!!!!!!!!!!

As Peter Griffin said "Well sir, I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. "

H.B.M.C. wrote:

darkkt wrote:... the stupid restrictions of "this cant go with that" were just annoying.

Yes, having to choose between chocolate ice cream, strawberry ice cream, honeycomb ice cream and rocky road was so difficult, especially as you weren't allowed to take all four at the same time. Good thing Ice Cream Workshop came along, took away all those flavours and just gave us a single one - vanilla - to choose from. No more silly restrictions, because there's no actual choice to be made!!!!!!!!!!!

QFT. RIP chaos 3.5.

3.5 Chaos.

What's the word I'm looking for again... ah yes, 'vindication'.

I want to be original and say something unexpected... but I cannot deny that 3.5 Chaos was the best Codex I have seen (and I have seen all bar a couple of the second edition ones). There was only one problem with it. With so many interesting ways to build an army, you would need to collect a lot of different models to do them all, so you would need to spend a lot of money. The advantage of the new book is that there are no interesting ways to build the army, so I can spend my money elsewhere. Wait a minute, you do not just suppose --- just maybe --- that Games Workshop messed up here a little?

Still, I would gladly take Codex: The Lost and the Damned over a fixed Codex: Chaos Space Marines... unless they did the right thing and made Codex: Chaos, which combined Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Traitor Guard, Beastmen/Mutants and somehow did not suck. *drools*

I admit the current DE codex has some flavor, since it is the longest durable one and DE is still playable with it.
Look at the SM codex that existed around 2002. Its totally gargabe.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

darkkt wrote:... the stupid restrictions of "this cant go with that" were just annoying.

Yes, having to choose between chocolate ice cream, strawberry ice cream, honeycomb ice cream and rocky road was so difficult, especially as you weren't allowed to take all four at the same time. Good thing Ice Cream Workshop came along, took away all those flavours and just gave us a single one - vanilla - to choose from. No more silly restrictions, because there's no actual choice to be made!!!!!!!!!!!

*gazes again at codex spiky marines through burning tears of anger*

2nd Edition Codex Chaos was my favourite.

+1 for dark eldar, there like a titan made of tissue paper

jamessearle0 wrote:+1 for dark eldar, there like a titan made of tissue paper

Well spoken. I second this.

New IG Codex. I don't think there's been a codex update as great as this one especially when compared to the past IG dexes - this new codex added a ton of new units, rules, and concepts to the game of 40k all the while being very fun and competitive (the former being something guard used to lack in the older day).

IG went from only one HQ choice to over three, fast attack expanded by at least three choices, troops saw more choices, etc.

Well, its interesting to see that the IG codex improved from the last incarnation to the current one.
The CSM codex took the other route. It became much worse.

Paul Atreides wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:Best: 4th Edition Imperial Guard, Rogue Trader Compendium (Marines, Guard, Squats in one book).

I also liked that compendium with the eldar and the genestealer cults in it, has a picture of bloodangels surrounded by genestealers on the cover. Bloody amazing Jes Goodwin pic of the Avatar in it.

You are thinking of Compilation. Although I have never played with it I do have read it. Very characterfull.

My personal favourite would be the black codex, the little one in the second edition starter box.

Can't believe noone has mentioned rogue trader itself yet.

That little paper codex in the 2nd edition starter set was the awesome.

allowed you to playtest with any army before you even went out to buy the full codex!

wuestenfux wrote:I admit the current DE codex has some flavor, since it is the longest durable one and DE is still playable with it.
Look at the SM codex that existed around 2002. Its totally gargabe.

I dunno, I kinda wonder how many other armies would be more viable under 5th using their 3rd edition rules... Maybe all the screwing around with army books has been unnecessary since 3rd. We just needed FAQs to keep it fresh!

wuestenfux wrote:For me, it was the penultimate (= 4th ed) Chaos Space Marine codex.

Me too

Hey Demogerg, is that from Robot Jox? That movie was awesome.

Archonate wrote:Maybe all the screwing around with army books has been unnecessary since 3rd. We just needed FAQs to keep it fresh!

Maybe we can all go back the the 3rd Edition Rulebook lists?

Some of us were very happy with those.

5th Edition IG FTW!

'ERE WE GO, Orks with suction feet and telescopic arms FTW!

wuestenfux wrote:

jamessearle0 wrote:+1 for dark eldar, there like a titan made of tissue paper

Well spoken. I second this.

cheers, er just while im on the theme of de can you bring a talos through a webway??

I really enjoy the current witch hunters codex... although if i could vote twice +1 to the current guard codex

Ah, the Guard codex is so arbitrary, it's number 1.

Whoops, wrong thread, I thought that this was "Most arbitrary codex so far"

Anyway.

Any of the Rogue Trader stuff, if that counts. The army lists in the actual book, and Slaves to Darkness/Realms of Chaos are without a doubt the best, and everything since then has paled in comparison. In my not so humble opinion of course.

For an actual codex? Probably the 3.5 Chaos codex.

Codex Armageddon & Codex Eye of Terror.

I like campaigns and fluff

jamessearle0 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

jamessearle0 wrote:+1 for dark eldar, there like a titan made of tissue paper

Well spoken. I second this.

cheers, er just while im on the theme of de can you bring a talos through a webway??

Yes, you can.
Bring three of them through the WWP.

I enjoyed 2nd ed orks myself, mainly for the comedy factor

covenant84 wrote:I enjoyed 2nd ed orks myself, mainly for the comedy factor

Ork codices always have some comedy factor.
I think this is mainly due to the nature of Orks.

wuestenfux wrote:For me, it was the penultimate (= 4th ed) Chaos Space Marine codex.

I like the current Tyranid codex, but that is when/why I started 40k.
I think the penultimate codex however, would probably be Necrons.

Lapsed Pacifist wrote:'ERE WE GO, Orks with suction feet and telescopic arms FTW!

Argh, what about the squig brain transplant? Uh oh! My Madboyz are suffering Paranoia!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Come one, come all, and witness with your own two eyes a form of 'logic' that comes not from our world, but from a different world, a world of inconsistencies:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I did a crapload more playing and winning under Eldar Craftworlds. I also did a a lot more playing as Drop Guard as my primary army for 4th. And with a whole 2 consecutive games in under the new Eldar Codex for 5th, I've now exceeded the playing and interest that Chaos Legions ever held.

Translation:

I played Craftworld therefore Legions were bad, or, to break it down further - Opinion stated as fact.

*wipes tear*

Never change Jonny. This place just wouldn't be the same.

Your disdain is misplaced. He's saying he liked the older codexes vs. chaos. Thats personal preference. You can do better than that HBMC.

I really like the 4th edition Chaos Codex, the current one. It convinced me to get back into the Hobby.

But if I had to call the best codex so far, I'd have to agree with Howard A Treesong: The 2nd edition codex was awesome.

1. Realm of Chaos (both books)
2. Chaos 3.5 (best artwork & army list)
3. 2nd edition Sisters of Battle (great fluff, filled lots of gaps in Imperial history)
4. 2nd edition Chaos (great fluff & special characters)

My WH/DH 'dexes are in Florida so I won't say much about them, but I seem to remember the DH book being a good read.

I love the current codex:CSM, an unpopular view on this website, but quite popular among tournament players.

My vote would have to go to Codex: Chaos Daemons though. An amazing codex, totally different from other armies, yet adequately balanced against them, that came out of the blue and uses the same models as Fantasy.

I'll have to say either the current IG or the current Orks. As much as I'm loath to admit it, the Eldar codex has also held up pretty well. The Space Marine codex is nice, but I'm not a fan of one special character being necessary for an entire chapter - or line of chapters - to get their traits.

I don't like the current Chaos Marine codex, but I don't think the prior one was all that fantastic either. I don't think Daemons work well as a stand-alone army. Pretty much every other codex is outdated by now, although they were generally decent when originally written.

Eye of Terror had the Lost and the Damned in it, which was both a blessing and a curse, now that the whole army has been dropped.

Frazzled wrote:Your disdain is misplaced.

I can assure you it's not.

Frazzled wrote:You can do better than that HBMC.

*snort* No I can't.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Your disdain is misplaced.

I can assure you it's not.

Frazzled wrote:You can do better than that HBMC.

*snort* No I can't.

OH BS, I've seen you rant and rave for pages. When I see an HBMC attack, I expect a certain minimum standard of excellence!

wuestenfux wrote:

jamessearle0 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

jamessearle0 wrote:+1 for dark eldar, there like a titan made of tissue paper

Well spoken. I second this.

cheers, er just while im on the theme of de can you bring a talos through a webway??

Yes, you can.
Bring three of them through the WWP.

great stuff ive been usein it like that for years just seems cheap haha XD

Ork Codex. Hands down. It has great fluff, has many powerful army built, can still be used in fun playing and has only one "overpowered" unit (I think you all already know about that.
And on top of it, it was written by Phil Kelly

Yeah, Phil Kelly is quite good writing codices.
I'd put JJ at the other side. He should concentrate on his column that nobody is reading.

Phil Kelly is not quite good at writing them.
He is uber.
The eldar Codex, Tyranid Codex (which was strong in 4th edition too), Warriors of Chaos and 40k Orks.
I think we should make an adress which says that Jervis Johnson shouldn't ever write Codexes or columns.

Well, JJ should write columns but not more.
He cannot do something wrong writing articles for WD.

Phil Kelly is good at writing overpowered codices, I'll give him that.

orks orks orks
tururururututun orkz codex rulez

wuestenfux wrote:Well, JJ should write columns but not more.
He cannot do something wrong writing articles for WD.

Umm JJ co-wrote the DE codex. (with the help of Gavin Thorpe) And thats already been mentioned as one of the better codexi/codexe/codi.

Anyway my vote goes to the Space wolf codex. It has the best fluff and is packed with character.

JJ wrote the new Dark Angels codex without any inspiration.
However, it appears that combat squads go back to JJ since the DA codex stated them first.

yani wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, JJ should write columns but not more.
He cannot do something wrong writing articles for WD.

Umm JJ co-wrote the DE codex. (with the help of Gavin Thorpe) And thats already been mentioned as one of the better codexi/codexe/codi.

Anyway my vote goes to the Space wolf codex. It has the best fluff and is packed with character.

The DE codex is only favored for still being able to build competitive army lists... I don't think anybody would step up to rave about the copious amounts of interesting Jervisified fluff...

Archonate wrote:

yani wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, JJ should write columns but not more.
He cannot do something wrong writing articles for WD.

Umm JJ co-wrote the DE codex. (with the help of Gavin Thorpe) And thats already been mentioned as one of the better codexi/codexe/codi.

Anyway my vote goes to the Space wolf codex. It has the best fluff and is packed with character.

The DE codex is only favored for still being able to build competitive army lists... I don't think anybody would step up to rave about the copious amounts of interesting Jervisified fluff...

The codex itself is rather thin and the fluff is a bit stupid.
Nobody knows where Camorragh is?

Archonate wrote:... interesting Jervisified fluff...

I am so glad to see this word entering common language here.

Yeah, sounds like a word that should be used in the 40k universe, especially for rants.

Jervis  [Jer-viss] Jer⋅vised, Jer⋅vis⋅i⋅fy, Jer⋅vis⋅i⋅fied, Jer⋅vis⋅i⋅fi⋅ca⋅tion
–verb
1. to remove options inherent in a list.
2. to reduce existing sub-lists into a single list.
3. To triple (or more) the amount of Special Characters in a Codex.
4. To take away.
5. To give what isn't wanted nor needed.

Origin:
Mid-1980's, England, Nottingham

Synonyms:
Bland, Blandify, Codex: Dark Angels (4th Edition)

Antonyms:
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (second 3rd Edition printing)

Well, absolutely great.
Its now part of my vocabulary.

Yeesh, I'm coming in as an utter heretic here, but I just cannot fathom the love-fest for the 3.5e Chaos codex.

I started playing 40k when it came out. I picked it because it had a ton of options and because the model support was very good (the CSM box was, at the time, easily the best GW plastic kit imo, and (with minor revisions to create the current box) is still one of the better ones).

And it almost made me quit 40k because the codex was stupidly, stupidly overpowered. I analyzed the hell out of that book -- I even posted up lists of the most efficient possible Chaos Lords back on some prior iteration of Dakka after simulating every possible Chaos Lord through ten million rounds of combat with marines.

The much-vaunted choices tended to be between the two broad categories of units in the book: Group A, those that were stupidly overpowered, and Group B, those that were stupidly useless. Even in a vacuum, the internal balance of the codex was ridiculously off.

I mean, seriously -- Thousand Sons vs. Bloodletters. Screamers vs. Daemonettes. Flesh Hounds vs. Glaive Princes. In the two years I played regularly with it I literally lost two games, and won most due to simply wiping the other guy off the board. I just can't really see the love for something so horribly game-breaking. During my stint with Chaos, I shot Tau off the board, and never once felt any threat from an assault list.

While from a balance perspective I think the current Chaos 'dex is vastly superior to the old one, I must admit disappointment at the downgrade in terms of art and fluff. But still, the old Chaos book was an abomination on the face of 40k and needed the euthanization it received.


As for the best book, I think the current Space Marines book is the best they've produced -- balanced within the general 40k environment, well-balanced within itself, and provides a great variety of potential lists that are reasonable if not viable on the tabletop. I do wish, though, that the current Chaos 'dex was written as well as the current SM 'dex.

Lowinor: I agree that the most overpowered aspects of the old Chaos book needed a toning down, but saying a book was great it was just overpowered is like saying you love your car but you wish the engine wasn't so big. Having overpowered options sucked for everybody else, but there was a lot of mid range stuff in that book that wasn't broken or useless. The cults (aside from 1k sons) were all pretty balanced, as were things like bikers, chosen, and havocs.

It was, in other words, a codex that fit everybody's desire: something strong, something rich in fluff, etc.

I actually miss Codex: Tyranids 3rd Edition. Hormagaunts could hurt things. Synapse mutants allowed guants to stick around. Biovores actually competed with Carnifexes. Hive Tyrants could have wings, and extended caripace, and warp blast with BS 4...and I could have two winged tyrants. 2 heavy weopons were not automatically twin linked. And at the beginning of 4th edition warrors were beasts. So many options.

+1 for 3.5 Chaos. Ive only played a single game of 40K since the current Chaos Codex was announced near the end of 4th edition... that's how much I despise the 4th/5th 'dex. It's not about the power inflation (which I would say is nothing compared to 3+ invulnerable loyalist terminators), but completely about the lack of options.

Best codexes: current Eldar, current Orks.

Honorable mention to 3.5 chaos for having great fluff and good rules. Doesn't make the cut because not as balanced as current eldar and ork codexes are.

The current chaos codex has a few really strong builds but almost no way to make a competitive force without using either plague marines, demon princes, or obliterators. I wish it had a little more variety.

Most nostalgic: 2nd ed Space Wolves. Thats when I started.

Best: 3.5 Chaos due to the options. Yep broken, but could have been fixed.

2nd best and cleanest to me: Current Nid codex. Again, a decent range of options. Easy to use and understand. Good fluff.

Best list: Lost and the Damned. Along with the Nid list above this is The converter's list.

Best codexes: current Eldar, current Orks.

Current Orks, yes please.
But current Eldar needs an update for the 5th ed.
Please read the corresponding thread in 'Proposed Rules'.

Favorite codex: Chaos Daemons, incredibly fun to play ultra hard assault army. The codex is filled with interesting units and fluff. Never plays the same way twice.

Least favorite codex: New Space Woofs, 400 lb marines wearing 500 pounds of armor riding a predatory animal not built for back strength? That has got to be the dumbest idea i've ever heard anyone come up with.

My favorite is between 5th Edition Orks and Guard. So many ways to play, while remaining interesting and fluffy.

The current Ork an Ig codex's are both really nice.