I figure why not. Lets try and use this as a petition of sorts, and use this to try and get GW to finally make a judgment on weather it can be used AGAINST vehicles as well as troops.

Everyone knows my thoughts on it, and we ALL know how hotly debated this is. So lets not turn this into a huge flame fest. Just simply post on here acknowledging that you want them to make a ruling and put it into the FAQ.



KC

I would gladly sign if I belived it would do anything.

Actually yeah, I will sign (why not?) The rulebooks are vauge enough to merit an FAQ.

I would be overjoyed to finally have an answer on this issue. Seriously, it's like the argument about whether or not Bigfoot exists.

@ KC
While I agree with your opinion concerning Deffrollaz,and yes,the whole debate should be "sorted out" by a FAQ,I dont belive any petition will affect GW practices in any way, shape or form.
However,in the interest of solidarity,I'll back you up.

Here's my petition. I'm not buying the upgrade kit until an FAQ does come out.

I think the rules are pretty clear on this, and GW has confirmed it from their rules department that it doesn't work on vehicles.

RxGhost wrote:I think the rules are pretty clear on this, and GW has confirmed it from their rules department that it doesn't work on vehicles.

Why cant we find this confirmation and use it in those undying deffrolla threads?


@ KC:

I am with you, a decision is needed.

I always support people who really try to make their voices heard outside of an internet forum. Count me in.

I support this notion!

Signed

I support this cause with my typing.

One rule to cease it all, one rule to calm them, one rule to answers them all and in the darkness stop the endless recurring spamfest flamebaits that erupt every 3 weeks on every forum across the cold gulfs of the interweb.

I'd like to see a ruling, one way or another.

It's really about time for an answer!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:One rule to cease it all, one rule to calm them, one rule to answers them all and in the darkness stop the endless recurring spamfest flamebaits that erupt every 3 weeks on every forum across the cold gulfs of the interweb.

lol Anything that involves 40k and a vague reference to LOTR is totally cool in my book.
Thanks everyone that is getting involved so far. I plan on getting at least 100 peoples name on here before I send it off to GW. Im sure it might not do anything. BUT you never know. And doing nothing about it just gives you a solid "NO" anyways.

count me in

MeanGreenStompa wrote:One rule to cease it all, one rule to calm them, one rule to answers them all and in the darkness stop the endless recurring spamfest flamebaits that erupt every 3 weeks on every forum across the cold gulfs of the interweb.

hahaha! I'm in, but largely for that comment!

We really need an official ruling on this.

I'd be more likely to buy some battlewagon upgrade kits if I knew the definitive answer.

Count me in. A definate ruling would be great

yeah,
+1
This is long over due...

Panic...

+1

I'm in.

I think they need to change the deffrolla before allowing it to hit vehicles. D6 str10 hits is way overpowered. When they errata it to Tank Shocks and Rams, they should just lower the str to 8 to balance it out. Instant deaths almost all infantry and can still glance AV 14.

edit: Either that or make it a single STR10 hit when ramming.

Signed, too!

Yes, please.

Or I was thinking 2 points costs. One (20 pts) for troops, and another higher one for vehicles (would have to be high tho, its too easy to blow up vehicles with that many str10 hits)

Come on guys and girls, there have been enough people look at this for me to have completed my goal 3 and a half times over.


WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT!!!!

Maybe you should start an online petition, so you geht more people and not just from Dakka.

That isnt a bad idea really. How would I go about doing that?

http://www.petitiononline.com/

If you really want to impact GW, make real petitions. Make a standard petition form, have a bunch of people here on Dakka print it out and take it to the FLGS, have people sign it, mail all the petitions in the country to one person, have that one person attach a nice cover letter and mail them in to GW.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:One rule to cease it all, one rule to calm them, one rule to answers them all and in the darkness stop the endless recurring spamfest flamebaits that erupt every 3 weeks on every forum across the cold gulfs of the interweb.

QFT.

Anung Un Rama wrote:http://www.petitiononline.com/

Your the gak Anung Un Rama. Ill set that up when I get home tonight. Thanks mate
Next stop, SEE IT IN MY SIGNATURE lol

Agreed! +1 for official rulings.

Just bringing this back up. Im trying to get an online petition going, but for some reason the site I was setting it up with just stopped letting me do it lol. Im sure Ill have a real petition here in a few days

I'm going to go ahead and mention that in Pask's page in the Guard codex it mentions his Russ' turret getting torn off by a Deffrolla.

There is no way a Deffrolla would ONLY rip off a turret with the current rules. d6 s10 hits its a death sentence for any vehicle. The rules for the Deffrolla as it stands are just slowed. They should errata it so its a bit more reasonable, and then no problem on it hitting vehicles. d6 s8 hits is cool. AV 14 is going to be a very strong, thick and heavy armor plating, and there is no way (fluff) the Deffrolla is going to auto destroy it - simply not enough mass.

I agree to this as well.

Have you ever seen an alien tank with a giant spiked cilinder in front of it attack other armored vehicles?

OK well Im getting my head kicked in all over the web. Apparently asking a bunch of 40k hobbyists to actually TRY to fix rules instead of just complaining about them, is impossible. Its pretty much left up to DAKKA and a small hand fulls of others. One of the forums I was made fun of for 2 pages before it locked and I was threatened with being banned.
On another, I was threatened again for simply bringing it up on a thread. I just mentioned, hey PM for details on the deff rolla petition. POW! right in the face.
So right now Im some what confused as to how I continue. The signatures are trickling down now. We are at 86 last I checked, yea its not bad, but consider the first 2 or 3 days I got over 30, now Im getting about 4 or 5 a day...... only 2 last night. Kind of annoying that Im the only one that wants rule clarifications.
SO any ideas on how to go forth and gain more signatures?! Id love to hear them lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im trying to keep this in the hobby, but I might just goto other online forums for... automobiles and talking about magic cards and such. But that feels like cheating

Congratulations. You were hit with the full ignorance of the Internet. I wasn't expecting this, but it doesn't surprise me either.

lol I wasnt expecting this either. I honestly thought most people would say "hey thats not a bad idea lets jump on the bandwagon" but instead I got a face full of "HAHA LOOK AT THE NOOB FROM NOOB VILLE!!! Jeez how stupid does this guy look right now! GW IS GOD!!!!!!"
Its been a slap in the face thats for sure But Ill keep on trucking. Im giving GW this petition on ym dead line weather its full or not. I still believe we ALL deserve clear rules, even that jerk heads.

Which Forums have you tried so far? Maybe some of the users here who are also on other Forums can spread the word too.

I'll call my rep today and ask him, how does that sound? Put this whole matter to rest.

yeah,
And I'll ask my mum!?

I signed the petition... I hope you get a result.

Panic...

It's really disheartening to hear about the reaction from other communities.

Solidarity brother, Im in. signed.

I'd sign it, but that website is annoying me, and I know they're a source of Spam mail, so I wont.

However, next time i'm buying something, i'll whine at the marketing troll about it, might make them do something.

EDIT:
<----
Buys direct from GW.

I have no strong feelings either way and doubt GW will do anything. You're obviously proactive, however, so signed.

Also @ Nobody_Holme

I know they're a source of Spam mail, so I wont.

From the site:

We hate spam. We do not sell or share the email addresses you provide.

Nobody_Holme wrote:I'd sign it, but that website is annoying me, and I know they're a source of Spam mail, so I wont.

However, next time i'm buying something, i'll whine at the marketing troll about it, might make them do something.

EDIT:
<----
Buys direct from GW.

All you have to do, is uncheck the 2 boxes on the first page, and then click skip(I believe its in that order lol) and you dont get anyspam what so ever


*UPDATE*

Well as of this morning we have 104 signatures. So Its a 5th of the way to the goal. If I had known ahead of time about the trouble I would of ran into, I wouldnt of tried for 500 lol. But the other night we got a pretty good spike in signatures.

As far as saying the names of the other forums that are causing such a pain in my ass, I really dont want to say the names out loud, simply because to me, that would be like bashing their websites, which is pretty much against my character. I know I went off about one site a few threads ago, but honestly they deserved it. 2 pages of insults until they decided to close it wasnt very fun for me.
I tell ya, I know a bit how GWAR feels with everyone hating the guy (lol joking joking)

But someone on Libraium suggest another forum, and he says hes pretty sure they allow things like this. So later today Ill set up an account there and see if they dont mind me posting. Other then that, like Ive said, feel free to get this petition out there guys.

And as always thanks for the support thus far!

yeah,
I unclicked all the boxes and once I signed this petition I unsubscribed from the site...

no spam as of yet?

Panic...

I'm not sure I understand what the "debate" is about? the deff rolla text clearly states it deals 1d6 wounds in a TANKSHOCK, but you cannot hit vehicles in tank shocks, they HAVE to stop 1" away, you can only hit vehicles with a RAM action

Ravenica, as you are new to this board I'll be polite about it.

DON'T!

If you should feel like discussing the finer points of the Deffrolla I suggest you learn to use the Search function post haste. Also reread the original post. The OP specifically asked that this didn't turn into a rules discussion.

To the guys out there feeling a strong desire to actually respond to the content of Ravenicas post....

LET IT GO!

oh well, signed anyway, seems like a total abuse of a clerical error

I don't use my deffrolla that way, it would almost be as bad as mixing mobs for the cover save, bleh

Ravenica wrote:oh well, signed anyway, seems like a total abuse of a clerical error

I don't use my deffrolla that way, it would almost be as bad as mixing mobs for the cover save, bleh

Meh... just had a guy do that at a tourny. Signed.

hehe quick aside, as a stopgap measure against rule exploiters, throw this line in their face, RAW since ramming is a type of special type of tank shock (p68) "If the tank accidentally moves into contact with a friendly unit or comes within 1" of an enemy vehicle, it immediately stops moving."

Ramming doesn't specifically disallow this so as with tech marines, they cannot complete their action

rules lawyering goes both ways

You just can't help yourself, can you Ravenica?

The stupidity of some people is simply staggering.

since I am not discussing the finer points of the deff rolla, nor am I debating anything, but am speaking to the issue at hand, I will ignore your childish troll beyond pointing it out

Ravenica wrote:since I am not discussing the finer points of the deff rolla, nor am I debating anything, but am speaking to the issue at hand, I will ignore your childish troll beyond pointing it out

No he has a point, Ive asked in the original post not to bring it up. However much someone might agree with you about how it DOESNT affect vehicles, go ahead and read the 6+ pages on anyone of the deff rolla debate threads and then youll see why Ive asked not to even bring it up lol.

*UPDATE*
Ok thanks to everyone that has signed once more! We are at 115 from when I last looked. Not too shabby, I think if the trend keeps going, I might get the 500 goal I was looking for by late december(when the petition ends)

If anyone cares, I called my rep and he asked one of the guys in the office about it who does rules; said it has no effect on vee-hickles.

If only they'd tell the rest of us, right?

yeah,
Bump!

If you havn't signed the petition I think you should, It's a good effort to show GW the online communities needs.

OT: I found this tread about the DeffRolla,it rules it can't be used... With clear reasoning why not.
http://www.theruleslawyers.com/2009/09/deff-rollas-and-ramming-vehicles/
It's quite good...

Panic...

What happens with Deffrollas? What are they?

IronChaos wrote:What happens with Deffrollas? What are they?

Deffrollas are a 20pt option for an Ork battelwagon. What it does is allows the BW to tank shock move, and do d6 STR10 attacks on a unit. Pretty much any Ork player with a battlewagon, takes them, and naturally the rules in the books are not very clear. And of course this has become a HUGE flame bait on many forums around the net. Its even been problems in some tournaments. Some will allow it against vehicles (rather powerful against vehicles for 20pts if you ask me) in early rounds and then say no its too strong in later rounds. Pretty unfair to the previous opponents that tank smashed by the thing.



*UPDATE*

Up to 128 as of 5 minutes ago. Its really slowing down. Alot more sites have basically kicked me in the nuts. On some sides I understand, I was a new guy, "not contributing" to the site blah blah blah. The way I see it is, Im contributing to the hobby as a whole, therefore Im helping all sites. But whatever, I guess its just plain impossible to get most of the 40k hobbyists to help out, and only take 10 secs to do it.
SO! saying that if anyone reading this is on other forums and has more of a presence there then I do, please, by all means mention it to get this out there. Ill submit the petition to GW weather its at 500 or not. If not at 500, Ill simply put that there were many sites that would completely deny me the chance to post about it, so it was left up to only a small few to help out.
I still wont name names as far as sites go to GW just because I dont think that would be fair for a website to possibly get some heat from GW for having thousands of people mention their trademarked, patented words a million + times

Also Thanks Panic for helping out with the cause man. I really appriciate it
And thanks to everyone that has signed it once more

KingCracker wrote:Alot more sites have basically kicked me in the nuts. On some sides I understand, I was a new guy, "not contributing" to the site blah blah blah. The way I see it is, Im contributing to the hobby as a whole, therefore Im helping all sites. But whatever, I guess its just plain impossible to get most of the 40k hobbyists to help out, and only take 10 secs to do it.

I know how you feel. I once tried gathering support like for something similar I had running converning German youth protection in videogames. On one site I got banned immedialty, because I was "advertising".

Hmm must be run by the same people that run a certain site that I was kicked from for the same reason lol. I didnt even post the link. I merely said HEY you wanna learn about the deff rolla petition? PM me for info.
I figured according to forum guidelines and such, that a PM is a PM, and there fore doesnt work as an advertisement but oh well lol. If I ever meet the mods from some of these sites at a convention, they are surely getting a nut kicked in sometime in our conversation

Panic wrote:yeah,
Bump!

If you havn't signed the petition I think you should, It's a good effort to show GW the online communities needs.

OT: I found this tread about the DeffRolla,it rules it can't be used... With clear reasoning why not.
http://www.theruleslawyers.com/2009/09/deff-rollas-and-ramming-vehicles/
It's quite good...

Panic...

I've read that before-I didn't agree with it then, I don't agree with it now.

Let's not have this argument in this thread, please?

Still in the 130s. 138, so almost to the 140. If I can get to 150 Ill be happy. That would be pretty surprising that we got that high with only a couple of websites helping out. Like Ive said if other forums aloud this to happen, Id bet the numbers would be at LEAST double. But cant change those guys. Anywho just passing on the update!
And just for kicks, check out DeadShanes boycott idea on his christmas thread. Its honestly not a bad idea either.
Thanks everyone!

This thread is relevant to my interests

signed!

Well we hit 156 as of 5 minutes ago. I made the petition for 500 signatures, but got hit with ALOT(yes had to be caps and bold lol) of resistance from other sites. So I was hoping to get to 150 at least. And we got it. This is the month the petition will be final and I will be sending it to GW pretty much constantly until I get a response.
So if you really want to help out the petition, try and get it out there one more time (just no fake names please lol) As always thanks to everyone that has helped and who has signed the petition!

Alight its the last chance for anyone that wants to put their names on the petition. We are at 169, I was hoping for closer to 200, but hey Im not complaining, seeing as DAKKA basically carried the petition.

After today Im going to send the petition off on its merry way to GW with the hopes that they read it and respond to it. Honestly Ill email them until I get a response lol. So tomorrow my sig will no longer have the link on it.

So thanks everyone who has helped out and who has signed the petition!!

Signed!

Good luck. Here's to hoping. Maybe we will get a Festivus miracle!

I support this.

Signed.

Signed.

I don't play Orks, but a recent tourney at my LGS ended in disaster when a severe case of Nerd Rage (caused by the lack of clarification for the Deff Rolla) ended in a fist fight.

Darth Bob wrote:Signed.

I don't play Orks, but a recent tourney at my LGS ended in disaster when a severe case of Nerd Rage (caused by the lack of clarification for the Deff Rolla) ended in a fist fight.

Ooo thats brutal. Like Ive said all along about this rule mess up, your going to stem 2 wildly different tactics depending on weather its used one way or another. And not knowing can really hurt your out come. I dont WANT to roll a d6 to see if it crushes vehicles or just troops. I honestly dont care either way (though Id be lying if I said it wouldnt be fun to hulk smash vehicles) but just knowing is what I want. Its not such a difficult thing to say "well it is only for troops" Seriously that was 6 words lol

I sign and support this.

Signed.

I'm in on a 4+

Yeah, signed.

Signed.

Sucks about all the trouble you got from other sites.

Signed

I find its too heavy vs vehicles so that I'd vote for non-vehicles only.

yeah,
When you send them this petition, I hope you get a proper responce. I'd like to see it declared troops only.

'but it's a special type of...' = weak!

Panic...

Hey, King, I appreciate your effort.
But don't expect too much.

Signing... Hope it's not too late...

BTW only if it becomes AP2. Come on, a guardsman can take an armour save against a giant steamroller crushing them, but not against a bolter round? WTF is this?

Well, flak armour would be more useful against a large blunt impact than an armour-piercing explosive bolt.

Also dont forget, passing the save is mainly saying that the mini dodged out of the way, or was lucky enough to be pinned under bodies instead of being crushed. Cmon, there were survivors in the twin towers, and Im sure thats a bit more devastating then a giant barrel of death


ANYWAYS
Thanks everyone for all the help and signatures. Im not holding my breathe for a policy change or a full codex line up or some other laughable request. I am hoping that they at the least read the damn thing. But as many times as Im going to send it, and snail mail it, Im getting a response. Thats my main goal, I at least want a real response not some generated junk from a computer or mail room clerk.

And yea I took flak from other sites, but it opened my eyes to how sad the shape is of our hobby. Seems like everyone wants to bitch and complain about it, until its time to take actions. Then its time to resort to name calling and insults until the new problem goes away, so they can go back to griping about GW lol. But oh well, I also realized that DAKKA is easily handsdown, the 40k forum for me
THANKS EVERYONE!
(if you want a pdf of the whole petition/signatues to email to GW, then PM for it)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, does anyone have a better email for the GW peeps? Because the only one I have is to the customer service department lol

Well so far, Ive emailed the petition 5 times with no response. So Im going to start printing the petition out and mailing it to GW. Panic has also decided to help out with the emails and such so a big thank you Goes to Panic.

Again if anyone wants a copy of the petition to email it to GW, just shoot me a PM. Just remember not to mention DAKKA in it, as I dont want any blowback to come this way. I love DAKKA to much to catch flak for letting me do the petition here.

KingCracker wrote:Well so far, Ive emailed the petition 5 times with no response. So Im going to start printing the petition out and mailing it to GW. Panic has also decided to help out with the emails and such so a big thank you Goes to Panic.

Again if anyone wants a copy of the petition to email it to GW, just shoot me a PM. Just remember not to mention DAKKA in it, as I dont want any blowback to come this way. I love DAKKA to much to catch flak for letting me do the petition here.

Just the fact that gw has remained completely silent on this issue should speak volumes.

The asshats won't decide either way.

I find it especially funny how they duped the inat faq to change their ruling on the matter and still gw has not come out and 'officially' ruled on it.

I applaud your futile efforts!

Hopefully it is just the time of year... Maybe you will get lucky and get at least some notice that it has been received next week?

I support this petition!

KingCracker wrote:Well so far, Ive emailed the petition 5 times with no response. So Im going to start printing the petition out and mailing it to GW.

Send email on holiday weekend. Don't get a response within 2 days.
Answer? Send it over and over and over and over. That'll show them, and inspire helpful responses when they return.
Better fire off multiple hardcopies too, just in case.

Gorkamorka wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Well so far, Ive emailed the petition 5 times with no response. So Im going to start printing the petition out and mailing it to GW.

Send email on holiday weekend. Don't get a response within 2 days.
Answer? Send it over and over and over and over. That'll show them, and inspire helpful responses when they return.
Better fire off multiple hardcopies too, just in case.

I can hardly believe that GW is interesting in dealing with a petition.

KingCracker wrote:Also dont forget, passing the save is mainly saying that the mini dodged out of the way, or was lucky enough to be pinned under bodies instead of being crushed. Cmon, there were survivors in the twin towers, and Im sure thats a bit more devastating then a giant barrel of death

Then maybe it should be an Initiative Test instead of an armour save.

Gorkamorka wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Well so far, Ive emailed the petition 5 times with no response. So Im going to start printing the petition out and mailing it to GW.

Send email on holiday weekend. Don't get a response within 2 days.
Answer? Send it over and over and over and over. That'll show them, and inspire helpful responses when they return.
Better fire off multiple hardcopies too, just in case.

Hey at least I can say I tried, instead of trying to sound uber awesome on the internet. And on that note if you want a hardcopy, just tell me your address, Ill be glad to send you one

Still nothing guys. The invitation is still open, if you want to help us get GW to notice a few emails, then by all means, shoot me a PM and I can send you a copy of the petition.