Gibbsey wrote:

The Bringer wrote:Also, Genesis would beg to differ with Evolution. They can not be combined. A Christian must believe the whole bible, not select chapters. Because of that, a true Christian could not be a Evolutionist, though they may claim to be both.

You wouldent happen to work on a sunday would you...

What are you alluding to?

Where does God come from? Well, this is one of those hard topic for a Christian to tackle. The Bible says God always was. He had no beginning, and he has no end. It is one of the mysteries that may, or may not, be revealed one day.


EDIT - I do not mean to insult any man here, please don't throw insults as this thread will get locked rather quickly then.

If I were to believe the bible is literal, I'd call every single Christian a misogynistic donkey-cave, but then I guess you haven't really read it very much yourself have you?

corpsesarefun wrote:You sir are an ignorant and propaganda fed fool.

as you well know, personal attacks are against DakkaDakka rules. Please find more polite ways to express disagreement.

Why Melissia, because man is head of the family?

Bringer, I've been in your shoes. Take a step back as the only thing you're going to do is damage whatever "cred" you have and be angry at yourself later. Scripture is full of all sorts of ridiculous concepts that, taken on their own, would hardly reflect what constitutes modern mainstream christianity. I stopped believing all of it for a reason (or rather for reason in general). I'll go into specifics if you want, but I'd rather do it in PMs. As for now, I advise you to take a step back and realize that you're going to lose.

Manchu wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:*cruel words*

as you well know, personal attacks are against DakkaDakka rules. Please find more polite ways to express disagreement.

Sigh, you are right oh blue man.

The Bringer wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

The Bringer wrote:Also, Genesis would beg to differ with Evolution. They can not be combined. A Christian must believe the whole bible, not select chapters. Because of that, a true Christian could not be a Evolutionist, though they may claim to be both.

You wouldent happen to work on a sunday would you...

What are you alluding to?

Where does God come from? Well, this is one of those hard topic for a Christian to tackle. The Bible says God always was. He had no beginning, and he has no end. It is one of the mysteries that may, or may not, be revealed one day.


EDIT - I do not mean to insult any man here, please don't throw insults as this thread will get locked rather quickly then.

God (Allegedly) wrote:3."Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work. But the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you. Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."

The scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments that address a day of not working reference "the Sabbath." The Bible defines the Sabbath in Ex. 20:9-10, saying that people should work for six days and then rest on the seventh day. The Jews observe the Sabbath on Saturdays, but the Christians moved their Sabbath to Sundays in recognition of Sunday being the day of Jesus' resurrection.

The Bringer wrote:Last sentence had a typo KK

Not in British English.

The Bringer wrote: please don't throw insults as this thread will get locked rather quickly then.

This thread is pretty much on it's last chance even as we "speak". I appreciate that the desire to crush your "opponent" beneath the ruthless jackboot of your superior intellect and argument is darn tootin' hard to resist...

.. but do so. There's no need to call people "fools" as they hold beliefs that you find.... odd..... and, similarly, if one is unable to back up some of the more.. extravagant... claims they are making in their posts, it's probably best if you don't do so .

Much obliged.

Jah Bless.

The Bringer wrote:Where does God come from? Well, this is one of those hard topic for a Christian to tackle. The Bible says God always was. He had no beginning, and he has no end. It is one of the mysteries that may, or may not, be revealed one day.

So, god is infinitely old?

The Bringer wrote:Not to mention, logically, how can you explain that the world has existed for infinite years? Nothing can reach infinity, yet for the world to have ever existed it must have been around for infinite years. Right?

And infinitely complex?

The Bringer wrote:It is almost impossible that a bare-minimum complexity cell could be created randomly.

And created the universe from nothing?

The Bringer wrote:Suppose that the universe was once nothingness... how in the world could it turn nothingness into something? How? It doesn't even make sense.

Slightly out of context I will admit, but still...

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Bringer, I've been in your shoes. Take a step back as the only thing you're going to do is damage whatever "cred" you have and be angry at yourself later. Scripture is full of all sorts of ridiculous concepts that, taken on their own, would hardly reflect what constitutes modern mainstream christianity. I stopped believing all of it for a reason (or rather for reason in general). I'll go into specifics if you want, but I'd rather do it in PMs. As for now, I advise you to take a step back and realize that you're going to lose.

Okay.

You can all say what you like now, but I think the OP has been answered thoroughly. I'm going to stop my part in the discussion.

So to return to the original question, 'What is a christian?'

The answer that appears to be definitively discovered here is that one must believe oneself to be something called a 'christian'. All else is irrelevant. Other people cannot judge whether you are a christian or not, because otherwise all the christians start slagging each other off and saying the others don't count (e.g. 'You can't be a christian and still believe in evolution!').

Ketara wrote:So to return to the original question, 'What is a christian?'

The answer that appears to be definitively discovered here is that one must believe oneself to be something called a 'christian'. All else is irrelevant. Other people cannot judge whether you are a christian or not, because otherwise all the christians start slagging each other off and saying the others don't count (e.g. 'You can't be a christian and still believe in evolution!').

I think that is the closest you are going to get

The Bringer wrote:And your history books aren't literal either... you know, Hitler really didn't kill all those Jews, Arthur never was a king, but he pretended to be...

The story of King Arthur isn't historical.

More to the point, historical texts don't claim to have been written according to divine revelation, so the issue of translating the word of God to the word of man never arises.

If a human writes in serious description of human affairs, then it would be improper for him to write as though he were describing them the perspective of a God.

The Bringer wrote:
7 days is a rough estimation of 700 million years...

Even if the Bible weren't literal, how could you still think that?

To my mind its no more a stretch than many other Christian beliefs, though the number would certainly much larger than 700 million years.

The Bringer wrote:
Macro and micro evolution have vast differences.

Macro evolution starts with something, and it becomes something else.
Micro evolution has something, and its genetic code allows for slight changes so that it can survive circumstances, but it cannot go out of those slight changes allowed in its genetic code.

Actually, no, that's false. Speciation occurs when to closely related animals can no longer produce fertile offspring with one another. This is a fundamental genetic change. There is no difference between micro and macro evolution, they are the same thing expressed over different periods of time. In both cases, one thing becomes another thing; its simply the degree of outward appearance that you're hung up on.

If you are going to disbelieve something, at least attempt to obtain a solid understanding of it.

Ketara wrote:So to return to the original question, 'What is a christian?'

The answer that appears to be definitively discovered here is that one must believe oneself to be something called a 'christian'. All else is irrelevant. Other people cannot judge whether you are a christian or not, because otherwise all the christians start slagging each other off and saying the others don't count (e.g. 'You can't be a christian and still believe in evolution!').

Agreed, now all we need is an incoherent political statement and then this thread is complete (we already got nazi's in here so we got that base covered)

But back on topic this is the best answer we are going to get from this thread

SilverMK2 wrote:

Ketara wrote:So to return to the original question, 'What is a christian?'

The answer that appears to be definitively discovered here is that one must believe oneself to be something called a 'christian'. All else is irrelevant. Other people cannot judge whether you are a christian or not, because otherwise all the christians start slagging each other off and saying the others don't count (e.g. 'You can't be a christian and still believe in evolution!').

I think that is the closest you are going to get

Uh yeah, can we just leave this thread at that without more arguments. Every relegious thread that's started on a forum, no matter what its original intentions, will end up end up in a fight. Just call it quits people with the off topic discussions and feel greatful that at least you believe in whatever your preaching, because everyone else's already got their own views too, and little's going to change them. =P

The Bringer wrote:First of all, there is a difference between micro and macro evolution. I believe that over time, there will be minuscule changes in creatures, but they have always had the ability to take on those characteristics. For example, the Darwin's finches all had different beaks. I don't believe, however, that a fish turned into a dinosaur which then turned into a bird.

Also, Genesis would beg to differ with Evolution. They can not be combined. A Christian must believe the whole bible, not select chapters. Because of that, a true Christian could not be a Evolutionist, though they may claim to be both.

But how do you know to trust the Bible? I've heard it said 'God prevents errors'. Yet, how many different versions of the Bible are there, all espousing slightly different things? What about the suppressed tracts and Gospels (like Mary and Judas?).

How can you say with any authority the Bible is literal truth because God wills it, when God has very clearly willed into being false versions of the Bible?

Do you start to see the ludicrus standpoint of claiming the Bible to be irrefutable because of a promise contained within itself? Never mind the circular logic.

The Bringer wrote:Why Melissia, because man is head of the family?

No, because the bible constantly goes about how the female body is unclean, how women are supposed to remain ignorant and stupid, how women are guilty of the original sin and therefor should be subservient to men.

A woman is unclean for seven days out of every month because of the period. A pregnant woman who gives birth is unclean afterwards, and is unclean twice as long if she gives birth to a girl instead of a boy. When all other animals were created in the garden of eden, god created them together, male and female-- but he created man first, then created woman from one of Adam's ribs, as if from an afterthought.

Eve is the one that is tempted into the first sin, and Eve is the one punished for it, because of that that all women are supposed to all be ashamed, ignoble, and subservient. Women's bodies are the properties of their men in the bible. A man can divorce his wife for adultery, but a wife cannot do the same to a man. A woman who has sex before marriage is to be stoned to deatn.

Honestly, did you expect anything different from a book over a thousand years old? Women just a couple hundred years ago were naught but chattel to be traded amongst families as a political bargaining tool, and it certainly wasn't any different ~2000 years ago in the oppressed hellhole that was the conquered state of Israel under the rule of Rome, nevermind after the Roman emperors adopted Christianity for its religion.

*Sigh*Shouldn't be posting here, as I am bound to get poe'd at somebody, but here goes: in my opinion, as long as you strive to follow the teachings of Christ, and as long as you truly believe that he was a spiritual messenger from a divine Creator (God of the Bible), then you are a Christian, plain and simple.

_Tim?

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:_Tim?

I always laugh when i see you sign your posts like that, it looks like your not quite sure who you are

Tim? and Ketara's responses, when taken together, are a pretty good answer to OP's question. Let's leave it at that, shall we?