Monster Rain wrote:

Manchu wrote:Don't worry -- no one is making and claims about what causes what here. We're just saying that legalizing abortion led to the internet.

I suppose it also led to the Iraq War, 9/11 and the Bush Presidency as well, though.

EDIT1-----> Oh, and Rebecca Black.

EDIT2-----> And Bronies.

Oddly, those were caused by Monica Lewinsky.

I knew it!

murdog wrote:I've got a 5-week infant at home right now, and she sure is a little person. Has been all along. In fact, I believe she was one from conception. So, fundamentally, I think killing either fetus (unless the mother is in danger) or infant is wrong. I guess that agrees with the subject line, if not the subject. I guess I'm pro-life.

As long as women are so afraid or desperate that they would seek underground abortions, I think we need to keep it legal. I guess I'm pro-choice.

We should be striving for a world where women have access to enough resources so that they are not scared to carry children to birth; where carrying a child or giving birth to a child is not a financial catastrophe in any situation; and where unwanted children are cared for automatically.

A nice summary of what I was trying to say earlier.

murdog wrote:As long as women are so afraid or desperate that they would seek underground abortions, I think we need to keep it legal. I guess I'm pro-choice.

Question:
If your wife had decided that she wasn't emotionally ready to have the child, would you be OK with her aborting the child? This means that your 5-week old daughter wouldn't have existed.

biccat wrote:

murdog wrote:As long as women are so afraid or desperate that they would seek underground abortions, I think we need to keep it legal. I guess I'm pro-choice.

Question:
If your wife had decided that she wasn't emotionally ready to have the child, would you be OK with her aborting the child? This means that your 5-week old daughter wouldn't have existed.

Of course you also wouldn't know her as your 5-week old daughter, and your your relationship to the subject would be completely different.

biccat wrote:

murdog wrote:As long as women are so afraid or desperate that they would seek underground abortions, I think we need to keep it legal. I guess I'm pro-choice.

Question:
If your wife had decided that she wasn't emotionally ready to have the child, would you be OK with her aborting the child? This means that your 5-week old daughter wouldn't have existed.

He might not be 'OK' with it but he might support her decision. Thought of that? Like many couples I'm sure they could come to a decision as adults. Whatever their decision, why should it make any difference to others being offered choice?

Sometimes you have to accept that people make different choices to you. The fact that I may choose differently to you does not mean I want you to lose the right to chose otherwise in your own life. It's the Pro-lifers who think everyone should have to follow their decision.

The 'ol Sylvan Singer has nailed it. Wouldn't be 'ok' (how many mothers and fathers who come to this decision are 'ok' with it?), but would support the woman's right to choose. But it's all about nuance and context. I can imagine this issue has torn couples apart. We already have a 3.5 yr old, and both were semi-planned . If we were in a different situation we may have chose differently.

Now, biccat, ahtman, had we aborted, my daughter still would have existed - as a fetus. And even if I wouldn't have known her as my 5-week old daughter, i don't think that necessarily changes my relationship to the subject - why do you assume that we have not aborted in the past, or would not do so in the future?

My views were the same ten years ago, but I admit my views on the fetus were definitely entrenched when I made my own.