DarbNilbirts wrote:There talking about the contents of the starter set. Hinting at the dark angels might bet bieal (spelling) and death wing verses chaos. That his model might be a new sculpt that is part of the set sprue that you cant get anywhere else. That the chaos dread would have a nice new look. Also mentions jetbikes for DA, although if this was rumor or banter I cant tell, hard to tell what they're trying to get at. First video of them I've watched and now I think ill just skip the rest.
They said that it wasn't even a real rumor, just a general idea floating around, and the two of them expanding on what they hope/think it will be. Also it is spelled Belial, can't remember who Belial is named after, but know the DA naming conventions he is probably an angel (Azrael is the angel of death, Samael is some other angel) or demon.
- Dark Angels vs Chaos Marines in Starter Box Set. But do not believe it will be 2 Power Armor armies.
- Box set will include plastic Chaos Dreadnought
- Box set will include Belial. Perhaps Deathwing included in the box. Then box will only have one "power armor" army.
- May also include new DA Jet Bikes
STOP PRESS:
BOW thinks, Hasting's 6 month old rumours might be true!
Buttons wrote:Yeah, I brought that up a while ago, how the new rules can allow one to not only eliminate specific models, but snipe special characters through careful positioning. On the bright side deepstriking storm troopers would be very nice. Deepstrike with 2 plasmas in a 5-10 man squad, pop an enemy IC and some valuable models like special weapon guys, and let the enemy kill you the next turn.
Personally I kind of like this. If your dealing with a DS army, then adds a tactical element to force your opponent to change his position to handle deep strikers. For example, if your deploy in a bubble or blob with your IC in the center, your much more resistant to DS sniping, but more vulnerable to shooting from the front.
Personally, I'd be hoping for a "variety pack" of Chaos (mix of CSM, Traitor Guard, and Demons).
That way, if new players pick up the starter box, they'll have a choice of direction they can take it in.
- Dark Angels vs Chaos Marines in Starter Box Set. But do not believe it will be 2 Power Armor armies.
- Box set will include plastic Chaos Dreadnought
- Box set will include Belial. Perhaps Deathwing included in the box. Then box will only have one "power armor" army.
- May also include new DA Jet Bikes
Thanks, and it would be nice if these recaps were added to the 1st thread.
- Dark Angels vs Chaos Marines in Starter Box Set. But do not believe it will be 2 Power Armor armies.
- Box set will include plastic Chaos Dreadnought
- Box set will include Belial. Perhaps Deathwing included in the box. Then box will only have one "power armor" army.
- May also include new DA Jet Bikes
STOP PRESS:
BOW thinks, Hasting's 6 month old rumours might be true!
Assuming they aren't lying...
What he actually said was that a source told him that. So it could just be that the rumour is validated.
No need to be a jackass and assume everyone is just regurgitating old information.
DarbNilbirts wrote:...can't remember who Belial is named after, but know the DA naming conventions he is probably an angel (Azrael is the angel of death, Samael is some other angel) or demon.
Can't say I am a fan of the fixed game lengths. It was fun not knowing if you were going to get one more turn to capture the objective, like a time when the ig player needed this obj and it was just one guardsmen against a tank and so we got the extra turn and as a final act of bravery the guardsman shot the tank with his mg and blew himself up with the tank.
That last video was a bit interesting. These guys must believe they have some hardcore sources to keep hanging their laurels on this stuff. Time will tell.
Not sure why this thread got buried in the dungeon of General Discussion.
I've linked all the videos and given brief synopses in the first post, for those who can't (or don't want to) view the clips.
Today (May 24) at 3:00 PM EST (8:00 PM GMT) they're doing a turn 8 show where they'll discuss a plethora of 6th ed rumors, regale with 5th ed stories from games, etc. I think they're also giving away prizes via twitter, so not too shabby.
I'll link *that* video after it goes on the site as a replay, since the show is done live.
tetrisphreak wrote:I'm not sure why it was moved either.
I've linked all the videos and given brief synopses in the first post, for those who can't (or don't want to) view the clips.
Today (May 24) at 3:00 PM EST (8:00 PM GMT) they're doing a turn 8 show where they'll discuss a plethora of 6th ed rumors, regale with 5th ed stories from games, etc. I think they're also giving away prizes via twitter, so not too shabby.
I'll link *that* video after it goes on the site as a replay, since the show is done live.
Someone moved it to the News forum, however it has never worked correctly and seams to change where it wants to be with each post.
I agree on the thinking they are putting a lot into these rumours, if they all turn out to be false the damage BOW will suffer will be large. To an extent a number of these 'should' be true.
deejaybainbridge wrote:
Someone moved it to the News forum, however it has never worked correctly and seams to change where it wants to be with each post.
I started the thread in News/Rumors when the first video released. After the third clip there was a lull in activity and the thread regressed into 'what ifs' and such. I guess a mod moved it after that, and it showed up in both forum lists for a while for some reason.
Plus i'm no Kroothawk or Yakface, my thread-upkeep isn't as tight as theirs always is. My work schedule keeps me away from a desk for a large portion of each day, plus when i'm home it's usually time to paint models, catch up on tv shows, and play with the young'uns.
Still all that being said i'll do my best to keep up the first post with new news on these rumors from BoW as we wait until 6th edition. 43 days until July 7th.
skoffs wrote:Personally, I'd be hoping for a "variety pack" of Chaos (mix of CSM, Traitor Guard, and Demons).
That way, if new players pick up the starter box, they'll have a choice of direction they can take it in.
Still, it would make it an inefficient choice for chaos players. Lets say it allows you to make a 500 point army (approximately) you will get about 150 points of CSM, 150 points of daemons, and 200 points of cultists, if you want to run a mixed CSM/cultist army that is fine, but if you want to run a specific CSM, daemon, or cultist army you start with a pathetically tiny force making the starter set a lot less of a deal since you won't use the marines, and two thirds of the chaos army, you are effectively paying $100 for a mini rule book and 150-200 points of an army.
1st post updated with some contents from the Turn 8 Show that aired on Thursday. The rumor concerning flamers affecting forests was interesting to me but I'm not sure if it's something to put stock in or not. Salt as necessary.
Edit - Warren also mentioned a GW manager's conference on June 10-11. Could be to hand out the new BRB and after which the 'net would flood with 'confirmations' of rumors and such. Salt again.
Don't know if that one's been linked yet. It's about paying points for terrain (bunkers, minefields ect) as part of your army list. It also has the little summary about setting terrain on fire if you don't want to watch the really long post
Don't know if that one's been linked yet. It's about paying points for terrain (bunkers, minefields ect) as part of your army list. It also has the little summary about setting terrain on fire if you don't want to watch the really long post
If true I'd give it 2 days before it's house-ruled out by every gaming group in the land. "sup I can afford hundreds of pounds for this gak, I win". Either that or underwealming and over-priced.
Just Dave wrote:I wonder if they'll mention anything about the rumoured fluff change [regarding the Tau]...
Joey wrote:If true I'd give it 2 days before it's house-ruled out by every gaming group in the land. "sup I can afford hundreds of pounds for this gak, I win". Either that or underwealming and over-priced.
Surely it's not that bad. While I'm an advocate of purchasing your own choice of terrain for the battlefield, you still have the game points limit which you and your opponent have agreed upon.
Don't know if that one's been linked yet. It's about paying points for terrain (bunkers, minefields ect) as part of your army list. It also has the little summary about setting terrain on fire if you don't want to watch the really long post
Don't know if that one's been linked yet. It's about paying points for terrain (bunkers, minefields ect) as part of your army list. It also has the little summary about setting terrain on fire if you don't want to watch the really long post
Unless its linked to stratagems, as in pancake ?
Could work the same as the Storm of magic additional points values work for fantasy.
In essence you take your normal points value army and then both payers have an agreed point value for terrain/fortifications etc.
This time around it's about the possibility of pre-measuring range for shooting.
I must add that these guys make me want to smash my head against a wall.
Free measurements make sense. The game as it is essentially allows you to premeasure anyway, given certain circumstances. Being able to measure whenever you like would prevent a lot of disputes and streamline the game.
Not seen the video though.
Thanks to Gorechild and deejaybainbridge for the heads-up on these. I'll add a recap of the premeasuring video after i've viewed it but i'm betting it's just like the title says.
Recap: Pretty much as the title says, pre-measuring is in. The guys spend most of time discussing on why it may speed up the game rather than slow it down. They basically feel, pre-measuring will allow players to make more definitive moves/decisions. For example, if you pre-measure 12", it may be a no-brainer to move and then assault as opposed to having to estimate and ponder the consequences of moving and not making the assault.
Recap: Pretty much as the title says, pre-measuring is in. The guys spend most of time discussing on why it may speed up the game rather than slow it down. They basically feel, pre-measuring will allow players to make more definitive moves/decisions. For example, if you pre-measure 12", it may be a no-brainer to move and then assault as opposed to having to estimate and ponder the consequences of moving and not making the assault.
I suspect that they will have a random assault rule similar to fantasy to counter this. Also possible assaults are done first and not last, As with all these rumours we have to consider what other changes may be in place alongside the one's in these videos.
It does refer to the pre-measure for shooting and does not mention for moving and assaulting (unless I missed something).
Recap: Pretty much as the title says, pre-measuring is in. The guys spend most of time discussing on why it may speed up the game rather than slow it down. They basically feel, pre-measuring will allow players to make more definitive moves/decisions. For example, if you pre-measure 12", it may be a no-brainer to move and then assault as opposed to having to estimate and ponder the consequences of moving and not making the assault.
I'm all for it to be honest. Some people just aren't good at judging measurements, especially new players. Also it will stop players from cheating slightly by moving their mini's those extra few mils to get into combat.
Recap: Pretty much as the title says, pre-measuring is in. The guys spend most of time discussing on why it may speed up the game rather than slow it down. They basically feel, pre-measuring will allow players to make more definitive moves/decisions. For example, if you pre-measure 12", it may be a no-brainer to move and then assault as opposed to having to estimate and ponder the consequences of moving and not making the assault.
I suspect that they will have a random assault rule similar to fantasy to counter this. Also possible assaults are done first and not last, As with all these rumours we have to consider what other changes may be in place alongside the one's in these videos.
It does refer to the pre-measure for shooting and does not mention for moving and assaulting (unless I missed something).
I agree. I'm not a fan of all these "rumored" changes when you hear about them one by one, but when you start looking at the larger picture I can see how they synergize with each other.
Recap: Pretty much as the title says, pre-measuring is in. The guys spend most of time discussing on why it may speed up the game rather than slow it down. They basically feel, pre-measuring will allow players to make more definitive moves/decisions. For example, if you pre-measure 12", it may be a no-brainer to move and then assault as opposed to having to estimate and ponder the consequences of moving and not making the assault.
Also possible assaults are done first and not last
That idea is flat out terrible no matter how you look at it
Assaulty armies: Don't get to shoot and soften up the enemy before they charge in.
Shooty armies: Might not assault much, but with these rules they will never assault since they can't even soften the enemy up.
It is also counter-intuitive, or to say the opposite of BoW, it isn't "cinematic" you move towards the enemy, shooting as you advance and then charge.
There is really no reason for this rule to exist if it did, no one benefits it just weakens assault armies and makes shooty armies even less likely to assault.
As a new nid player... these rules make me wan't to stop wasting my money on GW product. Seriously year after year codex after codex they can't just find a happy medium between making money and pleasing the players? I mean sometimes they get it right but 90% of the time...
I'm also saying this as a Chaos player... seriously? 40k=fantasy now?
Laughing God wrote:As a new nid player... these rules make me wan't to stop wasting my money on GW product. Seriously year after year codex after codex they can't just find a happy medium between making money and pleasing the players? I mean sometimes they get it right but 90% of the time...
I'm also saying this as a Chaos player... seriously? 40k=fantasy now?
I wouldnt really worry about it until you either have the new rulebook in hand, or you get a chance to borrow it. Otherwise youre upsetting yourself for nothing.
Recap: Pretty much as the title says, pre-measuring is in. The guys spend most of time discussing on why it may speed up the game rather than slow it down. They basically feel, pre-measuring will allow players to make more definitive moves/decisions. For example, if you pre-measure 12", it may be a no-brainer to move and then assault as opposed to having to estimate and ponder the consequences of moving and not making the assault.
Also possible assaults are done first and not last
That idea is flat out terrible no matter how you look at it
Assaulty armies: Don't get to shoot and soften up the enemy before they charge in.
Shooty armies: Might not assault much, but with these rules they will never assault since they can't even soften the enemy up.
It is also counter-intuitive, or to say the opposite of BoW, it isn't "cinematic" you move towards the enemy, shooting as you advance and then charge.
There is really no reason for this rule to exist if it did, no one benefits it just weakens assault armies and makes shooty armies even less likely to assault.
Dont get me wrong I'm not saying that would be a good thing. I'm unsure myself, It works for Fantasy BUT that does not mean they are carbon copying the rules over to 40K. I'm just surgesting possibillitys on nothing but opion
Recap: Pretty much as the title says, pre-measuring is in. The guys spend most of time discussing on why it may speed up the game rather than slow it down. They basically feel, pre-measuring will allow players to make more definitive moves/decisions. For example, if you pre-measure 12", it may be a no-brainer to move and then assault as opposed to having to estimate and ponder the consequences of moving and not making the assault.
I suspect that they will have a random assault rule similar to fantasy to counter this. Also possible assaults are done first and not last, As with all these rumours we have to consider what other changes may be in place alongside the one's in these videos.
It does refer to the pre-measure for shooting and does not mention for moving and assaulting (unless I missed something).
From bests of war site"We have come to believe that this is in fact an actual early version of the 6th Edition rules… but not quite. Apparently the Design department were let loose on the 40K system… they were allowed to try anything they fancied… we’re told that nothing was off the table. This “no-holds-barred” version was then edited down with the truly unworkable ideas removed and those that could prove to be exciting or contentious left in to be play-tested… so was born the Heretics 40K Rulebook!
This a version that was very likely sent to trusted play-testers (we still believe these guys exist!). Who like all trusted minions… were turned by the promise of power… or in this case internet notoriety and likely splurted the document all over the web!
I actually found this explanation to be not just more plausible (than the lone gunman theory) but a real breath of fresh air if true, and to me at least it shows a high level of innovation within the design team looking down upon us from the ‘Ivory Citadel’, and also shows that there is no shortage of ideas knocking around in there.
You can just imagine the design team having a real blast with this iteration of the rules (we loved it so why shouldn’t they) but its not been hard to spot a lot of potential for (ED: asshats now now don’t get carried away!) gifted players with a penchant for the meta side of our beautiful game… to discover unbalanced lists etc.
And there you have the crux of the issue the design team face, they could probably create a massively fun game at the drop of the hat, and simple folk like me wold love them dearly for it, but alas there is a whole other side (some say dark, Darrell says only!) to our hobby and that is the competitive win at all costs play.
So, fun as they may be, they’re not the final (or indeed likely to be anything like the complete) rule set for 6th edition… but what have we turned up about the actual 6th Edition Rules?
Well some really interesting stuff. For a start here’s what we believe wont make it from the Heretics Rulebook:
Evasion Values are Out – well we think this is a given… I’m sure every Dark Eldar player was praying for the day that their skimmers and flyers didn’t fall over in a stiff breeze, but that’s not all. Our Man in Havana has told us that Dark Eldar players will be very pleased with the 6th Edition updates.
Could that mean an overhaul of the skimmer rules… could it mean more deadly flyers?
Of course it could mean one, both or neither. However, more robust transports would make the Dark Eldar much more deadly… so keep your eyes peeled for more revelations.
The Turn Sequence will remain the same – The biggest shake-up and the one that would mean a rewrite of Assault weapons and the death of certain “shooty armies” ( Tau ), was the turn structure that put charging/melee before shooting. I would say it was unrealistic, but in a world of extra-terrestrial and supernatural horrors, where mankind has moved to the stars… that’s probably a bit redundant.
Anyway…the turn structure will likely remain the same as it is now, although i still think the reversal is tactically more interesting.
No Unit by Unit Activation – Yup that was pretty disappointing for me, (but who knows everything we have printed here could well be misinformation too! – fingers crossed I say.) I was sooo looking forward to faster more intricate games with that option. (Over watch would have been deadly)
Gargantuan Creatures will remain with Forge World & Apocalypse Games – That’s right… probably no supersized tanks and critters for the main rulebook… but does that mean we won’t get any Aracknarok-sized monsters?
Well it hasn’t been ruled out, and as Land Raiders are already that size, it’s doesn’t take a genius to think we’ll be getting more big kits.
In fact that’s a definate area of discussion… we all like to gripe about GW prices.
However, it’s pretty common knowledge GW are investing all the time in new kits, new moulds, more people (sculpting team is largest its ever been apparently – and picking up designers too – with the Hobbit on the horizon this would make perfect sense too!) and a bigger and better gaming experience… you can take that at face value if you wish… but if it means more plastic kits (and fewer Finecast), and more big bad creatures and machines is it worth it?
So who will be writing this new 6th Edition Rulebook I hear you cry?
Well as you can imagine the creation of a new rule set of this scale is a team effort… but some poor soul has to captain this vessel… so who is it?
Well… we simply don’t know! that really is top secret and even we couldn’t get the name (and you can’t use thumbscrews on a corporation these days!)… but we have some ideas on who isn’t. (Basing most of this off their recent commitments and things that have been let loose at recent events.)
So here are a few names who may well be involved, but most likely won’t be the lead writer… Matt Ward, Jervis Johnson and Phil Kelly… but if not one of them… then who – bearing in mind that on a project this size they are probably all involved in some way?
Will you need an update to your existing Codex when 6th Edition launches?
We’ve heard that the new rule book was written to take into account the latest releases and so there’s no need to post a massive errata.
However, we know that there are many codices that need a revamp. So I’m very sceptical that there will be “no need for an FAQ”.
Although I’m always prepared to be proven wrong.
So, while events unfold we’ll try to keep this article up-to-date with info as it turns up (aside from fixes of spelling, grammar, readability and of course insults to the ‘meta gifted!)
For now though… feel free to speculate all you want… or post a question. Perhaps we can piece together a puzzle with our ‘spidy sense’ and see if we can get the inside track. (US Military aren’t the only ones experimenting with remote viewing these days – Remote Viewers please contact us to apply!) (Update: Jessica Moonbeam writes in to say she sees desks full of papers and scribbles – erm helpful Jessica, very helpful!)"
Big caveats on this guys, in that while we’re confident that the contents of the article are accurate you are relying on multiple sources and research, and… well… there could be many ways in which it may not be accurate (not necessarily deliberate by a source either, pieceing info together like this is tricky!) so take it that its just part of the business these days that while we do our best, there are no guarantees! We will work to keep this article updated.
All of that aside, is the Heretics 40K Rulebook good enough, different enough to warrant a following of its own? (I’m so tempted its unreal!)
Another Video is up, Think the title sums it up, the sound is exceptionally low on this one so someone else will need to give a brief for the work blocked.
Another Video is up, Think the title sums it up, the sound is exceptionally low on this one so someone else will need to give a brief for the work blocked.
Joey wrote:Close combat weapons getting AP is definitely a step in the right direction. CC things always seem kind of cumbersome combared to shooty things.
I agree, this is the most interesting piece of info thus far. Shame the sound is so poor for me (need some new headphone at work).
It's funny how they look like they really, really need to go bathroom everytime they record their videos, stepping from one foot to the other
I don't know if I would like regular power weapons to "only" have AP3 as they suggest, certainly would Assault Terminators make a bigger pain to deal with.
Joey wrote:Close combat weapons getting AP is definitely a step in the right direction. CC things always seem kind of cumbersome combared to shooty things.
I agree, this is the most interesting piece of info thus far. Shame the sound is so poor for me (need some new headphone at work).
Anything of note aside what the title says?
Not really, they say Power Weapons may be AP3 and Powerfist may be AP2. Warren just questions what this adds to the game besides having to remember more stuff. Reducing armor saves taken will speed up combat.
Malthor wrote:It's funny how they look like they really, really need to go bathroom everytime they record their videos, stepping from one foot to the other
I don't know if I would like regular power weapons to "only" have AP3 as they suggest, certainly would Assault Terminators make a bigger pain to deal with.
It would also give a boost in the arm to artificer armor and terminator armor. I like this as I think the 3++ save has overshadowed everything else to the point where normal armor saves are considered 'meh'
Lets say that the force weapon also has an AP of 3, then when Mephiston flys over and starts beating your tactical terminators about the head, then instead of killing 3 or 4 of them a turn, he will just beat one of them into submission.
The tactical terminators on the other hand will fist mephiston right where it hurts the most denying any save.
Malthor wrote:It's funny how they look like they really, really need to go bathroom everytime they record their videos, stepping from one foot to the other
I don't know if I would like regular power weapons to "only" have AP3 as they suggest, certainly would Assault Terminators make a bigger pain to deal with.
It would also give a boost in the arm to artificer armor and terminator armor. I like this as I think the 3++ save has overshadowed everything else to the point where normal armor saves are considered 'meh'
Lets say that the force weapon also has an AP of 3, then when Mephiston flys over and starts beating your tactical terminators about the head, then instead of killing 3 or 4 of them a turn, he will just beat one of them into submission.
The tactical terminators on the other hand will fist mephiston right where it hurts the most denying any save.
That's true, totally forgot about the artificer armour, I like outfitting my HQ models with it, maybe now my runepriest could actually survive combat against GK^^
Also this could benefit Tyranids, when your big bugs don't necessarily go down to a single force weapon blow if you get them their 2+ save upgrade.
Couldn't the swarm tyrant and some other bugs get something like this, hardened carapace or something? It's been a long time since my last game against Tyranids, just had it in the back of my mind that there was something like that. Maybe I am confusing that then, sorry
Malthor wrote:It's funny how they look like they really, really need to go bathroom everytime they record their videos, stepping from one foot to the other
I don't know if I would like regular power weapons to "only" have AP3 as they suggest, certainly would Assault Terminators make a bigger pain to deal with.
It would also give a boost in the arm to artificer armor and terminator armor. I like this as I think the 3++ save has overshadowed everything else to the point where normal armor saves are considered 'meh'
Lets say that the force weapon also has an AP of 3, then when Mephiston flys over and starts beating your tactical terminators about the head, then instead of killing 3 or 4 of them a turn, he will just beat one of them into submission.
The tactical terminators on the other hand will fist mephiston right where it hurts the most denying any save.
My Meganobz like this idea
It's not going to help that much with the ridiculous 2+/3++/4+ FNP (unless they change how FNP works) that i keep runnning into, and my orks as a whole aren't going to get much use out of it, but my Meganobz might actually last long enough to swing back against someone..
I don't see them doing that, as power weapons are already seldom taken by units who can take powerfists. When was the last time you saw a Space Marine sergeant with a power sword?
DE, for example, have all sorts of power weapons, not a single PF.
It's just one more piece of BS, if true. to keep those 2+/3++ 'ers alive even longer. If T-hammers and Chainfists get an AP 1 it's even more blatant, as only SM get those (as far as i'm aware anyhow...)
Brother SRM wrote:I don't see them doing that, as power weapons are already seldom taken by units who can take powerfists. When was the last time you saw a Space Marine sergeant with a power sword?
I hope they do that. It will give DCA's a hard counter -- as right now they can tear through anything in the game -- especially when dual hammerhand is cast on them.
I would greatly enjoy seeing DCA's bounce off artificer armor or even regular terminators.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ascalam wrote:It's just one more piece of BS, if true. to keep those 2+/3++ 'ers alive even longer. If T-hammers and Chainfists get an AP 1 it's even more blatant, as only SM get those (as far as i'm aware anyhow...)
That would also (if they keep the same rule) give t-hammers and chainfists an extra 1 on the damage roll to destroy vehicles. Not a bad deal.
In the video Darrell seemed pretty sure of himself on the AP-3 Power Weapons deal. I guess time will tell, only 29 more days until June 30.
I would like to see AP 1, 2, and 3 ignore Feel No Pain, like in Pancake Edition. It buffs necron destroyers, eldar dark reapers, Battlecannons, Vespids, and many other non-imperial units.
Edit - First post brought up to speed with all current videos as of this post.
I don't mind CCWs getting an AP value, I always found it dumb that marines couldn't rip through Ork flesh/armour, or simply punch a guardsman in his unarmoured face. As for the standard AP 3 power weapon it might not be too bad. I am hoping that you can buy different levels of power weapons with AP 3 being the lower, standard level for power weapons. So for example a guardsman might (they shouldn't get the good power weapons outside of officers and maybe storm trooper sergeants) be able to get an AP 3 power weapon for 10 points (current base cost) and might be able to upgrade it to an AP 2 power weapon for +5 points. Perhaps they will try to make them more fluffy so you can take a third version that is AP 1 and counts as rending against vehicles.
Buttons wrote:I don't mind CCWs getting an AP value, I always found it dumb that marines couldn't rip through Ork flesh/armour, or simply punch a guardsman in his unarmoured face. As for the standard AP 3 power weapon it might not be too bad. I am hoping that you can buy different levels of power weapons with AP 3 being the lower, standard level for power weapons. So for example a guardsman might (they shouldn't get the good power weapons outside of officers and maybe storm trooper sergeants) be able to get an AP 3 power weapon for 10 points (current base cost) and might be able to upgrade it to an AP 2 power weapon for +5 points. Perhaps they will try to make them more fluffy so you can take a third version that is AP 1 and counts as rending against vehicles.
I get your reasoning but if weapons get AP values, I hope it's way more simplified. The complexities of who is carrying what flavor of what can add up fast.
Buttons wrote:I don't mind CCWs getting an AP value, I always found it dumb that marines couldn't rip through Ork flesh/armour, or simply punch a guardsman in his unarmoured face. As for the standard AP 3 power weapon it might not be too bad. I am hoping that you can buy different levels of power weapons with AP 3 being the lower, standard level for power weapons. So for example a guardsman might (they shouldn't get the good power weapons outside of officers and maybe storm trooper sergeants) be able to get an AP 3 power weapon for 10 points (current base cost) and might be able to upgrade it to an AP 2 power weapon for +5 points. Perhaps they will try to make them more fluffy so you can take a third version that is AP 1 and counts as rending against vehicles.
I get your reasoning but if weapons get AP values, I hope it's way more simplified. The complexities of who is carrying what flavor of what can add up fast.
Exactly. I think each type of weapon should have a static ap value and players can model accordingly. Chainsword = ap5, Power sword = ap3, power axe = ap2, as a potential example.
Brother SRM wrote:I don't see them doing that, as power weapons are already seldom taken by units who can take powerfists. When was the last time you saw a Space Marine sergeant with a power sword?
Yeah, but remember the leaked codex also had power swords granting a 5++ in close combat. So they take with one hand and give with the other if this is true. Lets just hope it is or they doing something else to balance it out.
Not sure I like the "first assault, THEN shoot) mechanic. So now I can no longer shoot a transport and assault the contents? In fact, if I shoot it with any assault weaponry (optimal range meltas), I'm only setting myself up to be charged the next turn. Odd.
Also, seems to me that CC is taking a BIG hit in efficacy now. Shooty units will hit more often against large stuff (MCs, large tanks, anything staying still), while CC units can no longer thin enemies out by shooting before charging, can get wipe out via alpha-strike if any enemy unit joins up...
Sephyr wrote:Not sure I like the "first assault, THEN shoot) mechanic. So now I can no longer shoot a transport and assault the contents? In fact, if I shoot it with any assault weaponry (optimal range meltas), I'm only setting myself up to be charged the next turn. Odd.
Also, seems to me that CC is taking a BIG hit in efficacy now. Shooty units will hit more often against large stuff (MCs, large tanks, anything staying still), while CC units can no longer thin enemies out by shooting before charging, can get wipe out via alpha-strike if any enemy unit joins up...
But you may get stuck in a lot faster. And units may not sit in transports all game.
In my playtest games with the pancake edition, my Tyranids just swamped stuff. My opponent only got a round or two of shooting in before I hit him multiple places.
Regarding some of the other rumors, I think the price increase was very telling. I think it's not an accident that fliers and buildings got the big price hike, because lots of people will be trying them out once 6th hits.
Sephyr wrote:Not sure I like the "first assault, THEN shoot) mechanic. So now I can no longer shoot a transport and assault the contents? In fact, if I shoot it with any assault weaponry (optimal range meltas), I'm only setting myself up to be charged the next turn. Odd.
As I mentioned earlier it doesn't seem likely since it add nothing. Assault oriented armies take a hit because they can't shoot and soften up a unit before charge and shooty armies must either assault or shoot instead of the latter followed by the former making it obvious how they will always go (hint a squad of vets won't charge 3 marines to drive them off an objective if they can't shoot them with their meltaguns first).
CC may still be viable for hordes, but I don't see mixed armies working so well anymore. Say, Eldar fire dragons cracking vehicles so Banshees can assault the passengers. And even if it works...oops, another squad joined the fight and alpha-stomped the banshees!
CC may still be viable for hordes, but I don't see mixed armies working so well anymore. Say, Eldar fire dragons cracking vehicles so Banshees can assault the passengers. And even if it works...oops, another squad joined the fight and alpha-stomped the banshees!
If it plays out like pancake ed then this worry is unfounded, in pancake if a unit appeared withing in 6'' of you after you moved, like getting shot out of a transport, you can assault the new target instead. That's just pancake ed. though, but if it was an early play test and they kept one then most likely they kept the other as they balanced well and kept the strategy you mentioned.
Evidence for CCWAp, Obyron from the Necron codex. He's 165pts, WS6 but Int 2, has a 2+ and warscythe, and can teleport. Thats it. Not good against a unit with PW, however, if in 6th(which the necron dex was written for) PW are Ap 3, then only PF and CF can kill obyron, but since those go at Int 1 and he is WS 6, this makes him actually worth his points. Also, I beleive that Necron Warscythes don't say "no armor save" but "no armor saves allowed" which, if power weapons are Ap3 in 6th, the lauguage of the scythes doenst need to be changed and they still ignore all armor, thus seperating them from power weapons)
Thats some good reasoning, hopefully it turns out something like this. I wouldn't mind ap power weapons at all. In fact, I think it would add something intersting to the game. It would certainly make terminators hard to deal with for some people though.
And units may not sit in transports all game.