Nevelon wrote:
Or just use shoulder mounted heavy weapons for your IG.

You know, a HWT where one guy has the weapon shoulder mounted, one guy has the ammunition/power source, and the third guy is a spotter would be a cool way to represent them.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Or just use shoulder mounted heavy weapons for your IG.

You know, a HWT where one guy has the weapon shoulder mounted, one guy has the ammunition/power source, and the third guy is a spotter would be a cool way to represent them.

I was just being a snarky RT-era guy, who has guardsmen from back when their heavy weapons still had suspensors on them

I actually really like the guard heavy weapons on the big bases. Sure, it looks like they are never going to snap-shot those things on the move. Heck, some of them look like they’d need a horse/tractor to get anywhere. But these are just ordinary guys in a horrible universe. They are not Supermen storming the trenches firing that thing from the hip.

It does bring up one of the problems with changing HBs though: how wide spread the effects are. They are in so many armies, on so many platforms. What makes sense for a heavy weapon marine in a tac squad would be ridiculous on a IG HWT.

I don't agree with Salvo 5, because the Assault Cannon is designed to be the Heavy Bolter+1 (+1 Str, RoF and rending), and in fluff have a much higher RoF so making a HB S 3/5 would be fluff breaking

 Deadshot wrote:
I don't agree with Salvo 5, because the Assault Cannon is designed to be the Heavy Bolter+1 (+1 Str, RoF and rending), and in fluff have a much higher RoF so making a HB S 3/5 would be fluff breaking

well, Rending and the +1 Str does make a bit of a difference, but the HB does have more range.

Fluff is not a consideration in the math of the actual game. GW has made this clear.

 Deadshot wrote:
I don't agree with Salvo 5, because the Assault Cannon is designed to be the Heavy Bolter+1 (+1 Str, RoF and rending), and in fluff have a much higher RoF so making a HB S 3/5 would be fluff breaking

This is a non-argument. In addition to what Martel said, there are a thousand things more fluffbreaking in the game than this.

If you can deal with a naked IG major eating two heavy bolter shells - either of which would have instantly killed any of his carapace-armoured soldiers - and being no worse for wear, you can deal with some RoF disparity.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Salvo doesn't work because of the models. Look at the IG heavy weapon team. There ain't no way that's firing on the move.

So...then they just fire the second value. All the time. I don't see the issue.

So you're going to give IG weapons teams a special rule that says they always snap fire when they move?

They already have that?
If a Guard weapons team with a Heavy Bolter moves--they're snap shooting, because a Heavy Bolter is classified as "Heavy". Guard weapon teams don't have Relentless or anything like that, beyond the Emperor's Shield Infantry Platoon in Mont'ka and its unique Order that lets them count as stationary even if they moved in the preceding Movement phase.

Additionally, it's not beyond the realm of belief that they're packing up the gun to move and then laying it down to fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Or just use shoulder mounted heavy weapons for your IG.

You know, a HWT where one guy has the weapon shoulder mounted, one guy has the ammunition/power source, and the third guy is a spotter would be a cool way to represent them.

I was just being a snarky RT-era guy, who has guardsmen from back when their heavy weapons still had suspensors on them

I actually really like the guard heavy weapons on the big bases. Sure, it looks like they are never going to snap-shot those things on the move. Heck, some of them look like they’d need a horse/tractor to get anywhere. But these are just ordinary guys in a horrible universe. They are not Supermen storming the trenches firing that thing from the hip.

It does bring up one of the problems with changing HBs though: how wide spread the effects are. They are in so many armies, on so many platforms. What makes sense for a heavy weapon marine in a tac squad would be ridiculous on a IG HWT.

Putting it bluntly, I really don't think so.

The change to Salvo would be believable for Guard, Astartes, and Sororitas. They fire less when moving, they fire more when stationary. It's a matter of bracing properly before firing or they check their shots to avoid jamming the ammo feeds or any number of possibilities.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The change to Salvo would be believable for Guard, Astartes, and Sororitas. They fire less when moving, they fire more when stationary. It's a matter of bracing properly before firing or they check their shots to avoid jamming the ammo feeds or any number of possibilities.

If we are talking about guys like Harker, I can see that. But I don’t see these guys as anything but heavy:


Obviously, I’m letting fluff and models dictate rules. But I wouldn’t have an issue with this lady putting shots downrange while matching forward.


Obviously, opinions differ. YMMV, etc.

Well, remember that the Guard HW teams are still capable of moving and firing now.

Why is it so unbelievable for them to still be capable of that if it changes from Heavy to Salvo?
Is it the fact that they've got a tripod down? It's not unreasonable to assume that when the weapon teams move, one guy hauls the tripod and ammo while the other hauls the gun. Properly trained a crew could immediately slam that thing down and have it up and firing in a manner of minutes, if not seconds.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Well, remember that the Guard HW teams are still capable of moving and firing now.

Why is it so unbelievable for them to still be capable of that if it changes from Heavy to Salvo?
Is it the fact that they've got a tripod down? It's not unreasonable to assume that when the weapon teams move, one guy hauls the tripod and ammo while the other hauls the gun. Properly trained a crew could immediately slam that thing down and have it up and firing in a manner of minutes, if not seconds.

And hell, anything you can rest your gun on (a tree stump, wall etc.) can be used to stabilise the gun when firing so you might not even need to set up that tripod.

One option - I think actually mentioned further upthread - might be to have a different profile for a "mounted heavy bolter". If the normal one is Salvo 3/4, the mounted one might be Heavy 5, say. (The thought here is that in exchange for not being able to usefully shoot on the move, it fires faster when mounted. Maybe you could make that a range boost instead if that's too much dakka...)