Peregrine wrote:
Exactly. Just like WOTC can set the rules for their privately owned MTG club.

And you still struggle with this: Yes, they did that. However, just because you can do something doesn't mean you are beyond being questioned, especially if you're a business.

 Peregrine wrote:
No, I was actually making the exact opposite assumption: that you think that Nazi propaganda is not ok, and have no problem with a site imposing a "no Nazi propaganda" rule and banning anyone who posts it. And I see that, as expected, you agree with me that private groups are allowed to decide who and what is allowed in their group.

1- I'm not buying products from this site.

2- You're missing the point. If they had, say, a 'no Nazi propaganda' policy, but were A-OK with posting pictures of dead babies then you can bet I'd be questioning their policies.

 Peregrine wrote:
Sigh. Again, WOTC did not shut down the group. They did not delete any of its content. Nor did they attempt to do either of those things. They simply took responsibility for their own group and decided that certain people aren't welcome in it. If you don't like WOTC's decisions about their private group you are free to be an adult, take responsibility for your own behavior, and not join WOTC's group. Stop trying to demand that WOTC cater to your fragile feelings.

You're being deliberately ignorant, I'm convinced.

People aren't saying they are 'wrong' for banning a troublesome person. However, they're apparently more okay with some guy that could rape a child than they are with someone who posts a nasty frog picture in a private group. I don't know where you're from, or how many meters from a school you're allowed- but I'd generally like to think that the sexual predators are a much bigger concern than someone who posts 'offensive memes' and supports a critic of the company that banned him. Are you seeing the concern here, or do you just shut down your critical thinking process when you're 'offended'?

 Peregrine wrote:
And you will notice that, now that WOTC has been informed of the business(es) they partner with failing to take responsibility (both morally and legally) for employee background checks, the judges in question are being removed. Nowhere did WOTC say "raping kids is ok, come join our club".

Wow, it only took a colossal internet outrage to remove pedophiles. After what, a decade?

Yeah, I'm -sure- this is just coincidental. Nevermind the fact that this entire case is:

-Dude is a harsh critic of a gaming company's products and practices
-A girl who is pals with the company has no evidence of 'harassment', but the incident is over 6 months old at least
-The people who are rallied against the banned parties are shills for the company
-The company conveniently nukes one of its harshest critics from participating, and gets to pretend it's 'harassment'

Yeah, it's totally coincidental. Not transparent or anything. In fact, we've never seen anything like this, ever.

 Peregrine wrote:
I want a written form of the argument, preferably with linked citations to quoted material supporting its extremely unconventional position. Video of someone talking at the camera is a terrible medium for this kind of thing, and I wish people would stop doing it. It's harder to follow, much harder to quote in a response, and generally just a pain in the ass to deal with. But apparently youtube advertising money is the most important goal here.

Yeah, you can't always get what you want. Sorry. If you can't follow a human being speaking, I'm just outright impressed you made it this far in life.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Stuff.

All of your post here seems to be based on the assumption that WOTC approved of the sex offender judges, rather than being unaware of them. WOTC is/was not their employer, so WOTC is not responsible for doing background checks on them. Once they were made aware of the fact that the (morally and, in some cases legally) required background checks had not been done by the judges' employer(s) WOTC started removing them. At no point did they say "raping children is ok, we love you and please join our club". The inconsistency you claim simply does not exist.

And I'd also like to point out that WOTC didn't go out of their way to find the guy with the meme group. His involvement was made public, he lost his sponsors, and he was kicked off his team. WOTC only took action against him after all of this had happened.

-Dude is a harsh critic of a gaming company's products and practices
-A girl who is pals with the company has no evidence of 'harassment', but the incident is over 6 months old at least
-The people who are rallied against the banned parties are shills for the company
-The company conveniently nukes one of its harshest critics from participating, and gets to pretend it's 'harassment'

Yeah, it's totally coincidental. Not transparent or anything. In fact, we've never seen anything like this, ever.

Counter-point: the primary defense of Hambly seems to be a lot of people nitpicking the exact legal definition of harassment and saying "well, he's a but he didn't break any laws". And when people think you're a you don't tend to get the benefit of the doubt. I suspect that if people didn't think Hambly was a in general his criticism of WOTC would not be in question.

Yeah, you can't always get what you want. Sorry. If you can't follow a human being speaking, I'm just outright impressed you made it this far in life.

Can =/= want to. If people are going to post their argument in an inconvenient form so they can get more advertising money I don't have an obligation to pay attention to them. I'm not going to make an extra effort to deal with them if they can't have the basic courtesy to put their information in the proper medium.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Stuff.

All of your post here seems to be based on the assumption that WOTC approved of the sex offender judges, rather than being unaware of them. WOTC is/was not their employer, so WOTC is not responsible for doing background checks on them. Once they were made aware of the fact that the (morally and, in some cases legally) required background checks had not been done by the judges' employer(s) WOTC started removing them. At no point did they say "raping children is ok, we love you and please join our club". The inconsistency you claim simply does not exist.

By this logic, the guy with the 'offensive meme' page can't be held accountable for everything that occurs. We don't know how active he was. See, not everyone is logged into social media all the time.

DECADES have passed, and WotC never bothered to check and make sure the proper procedures were taking place? That's not a small oversight. I now wonder how many children could have been molested.

 Peregrine wrote:

Can =/= want to. If people are going to post their argument in an inconvenient form so they can get more advertising money I don't have an obligation to pay attention to them. I'm not going to make an extra effort to deal with them if they can't have the basic courtesy to put their information in the proper medium.

Dude, you can't even properly read and comprehend posts on a forum. Don't act like having it written in a 'proper medium' is going to make some massive difference. You just don't want to be exposed to something that might be contrary to your opinions.

I'm done with you. You've been everything I expected, and still have no arguments of merit. Just umbrage and outrage.

I'll see you on the next thread where you get pissy and try to get it shut down.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I haven't called you or anyone else any names, unless you count pointing out your hypocrisy. I said the group that rallied to defend Hambly was the alt-right, which is a loose political affiliation in the US that is (sort of) aligned with the Republican Party as it is/was. Typically championed by Breitbart. This apparently triggered you (actually, no apparently, you admitted it), as you came out swinging over it, calling me toxic (who's name calling now?) and saying you need to purge the gaming community of them. Interesting word choice, no?

No, you said something childish and you were called out on it. "muh alt-rite" is the go-to phrase for people who have difficulty understanding that sometimes people disagree with you.

The alt right is an actual group, Bannon said that breitbart was the place for them. I don't understand what you are getting all twisted up about? Breitbart covered the story before the sex offenders aspect came out.

It seems you are reading to much facebook and twitter, if someone saying alt right is getting you so mad. Probably for the best, since the worst of anything tend to float to the top of those platforms.

And I called your behavior toxic. It certainly is. It's practically oozing.

And yes, bullies should be 'purged' from the gaming community. But I see what you're doing. You're not fooling anyone, and nowhere near as clever as you think.

Yes, like the toxic behaviour of coming into a thread, being rude, and then screaming for the mods after two pages. I wasn't rude with Psychotic, who is against Hambly's ban. The toxicity started when a certain person showed up.

But keep on projecting, buddy!

Do you wanna call me 'Alt-right'? A 'Nazi'? Go ahead. Please, by all means. Insinuate everything you like. It's a little dance I've seen plenty of people do when they're on the losing side of a discussion and have nothing left to support their claims.

Never said you were either of those things, though you seem keen on putting words in my mouth. Pretty much all you have done since arriving in the thread.

Hambly was a disliked part of the magic community. You yourself said companies should have the right to refuse business with whom they like, so what is the issue? Nobody is banning him from his local games store or getting cards off Amazon. All it will really effect in the long term is his YouTube channel, since he won't have the same level of access other channels will.

This isn't just one incident, one report of 'he was mean to me!': There are plenty of one time incidents that are far worse than bad mouthing a cosplayer that get far lighter punishments.

As for the MTGO, he seems to have a case there, since it seems mtgo let's you trade between people for cards, thus giving them value, especially if people are allowed to sell their cards.

 Crazyterran wrote:
This thread was perfectly fine until you came in here with half of half the facts, absurd examples, and ridiculous outrage over simple political facts. There was no name calling or mudslinging until you appeared.

This, young sir, is a blatant lie and you know it. What you're trying to say is, "This thread was fine while me and Peregrine had no one disagreeing with us". Welcome to the adult world, your worldview isn't held as a universal truth, please try to adjust as quickly as possible for your own sake.

You were mudslinging and making blatantly false or otherwise unfounded statements against another person. You may call me a hypocrite if you like, but from the mouth of a liar any name you spew forth has no merit, no weight, nothing.

People were disagreeing with Peregrine and myself throughout this whole thread, I invite you to give it a read. Of course, dismissing those who disagree with you - while also calling out your tomfoolery - as fools and children is the classic troll move.

Liar? I never called anyone here a nazi, I used the label a political group assigns to itself. You started slinging the words 'Nazi' and 'child rapist' around then got upset people are using those words.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
We don't know how active he was.

He created the group.

DECADES have passed, and WotC never bothered to check and make sure the proper procedures were taking place? That's not a small oversight. I now wonder how many children could have been molested.

I wonder too. Do you have any evidence of any incidents happening as a result of WOTC's misplaced trust in their business partners, or just idle speculation about how something might have happened?

Dude, you can't even properly read and comprehend posts on a forum. Don't act like having it written in a 'proper medium' is going to make some massive difference. You just don't want to be exposed to something that might be contrary to your opinions.

I'm done with you. You've been everything I expected, and still have no arguments of merit. Just umbrage and outrage.

I'll see you on the next thread where you get pissy and try to get it shut down.

Yep, just keep on with your straw man arguments, bad-faith posting, and ridiculous outrage. See you next thread (or this one when you come back to it after your dramatic exit, because you can't stay away).

This thread is beyond stuffed. Congrats to the 2-3 people who really dedicated their time to ruining it. I'm going through this when I have time, warnings and bans will follow for all the impolite behaviour in here