AllSeeingSkink wrote:Honestly if it's that easy for the general public to get vehicle registration info, I'm all for vehicle registration lists being abolished too. It's a gak idea to have information like car listings and gun listings easily available to the public, I'd hazard a guess that it'd cause a big increase in thefts of such items.
A big part of the security of my valuable collectable vehicle is simply not many people know it's there. Obviously neighbours and friends and whatnot do, but the whole bloody country doesn't know.
That is such a conflated opinion I have no idea how it exists.
And plus did no one read the article? It was a poor intrepretation, cars and who owns them can only be accessed by people who have the rights to do so.
Alcohol is literally poison.
Yeah, it was actually banned in the US, people forget how its a addictive substance and literally posions your body.
Now WHY ARE WE NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW FBI DROP BALL ON THIS SHOOTER. He did youtube about being professional school shooter back in Jan 2018 and was reported to the FBI which did not follow up on it.
Well they did the Police went to his house and found nothing wrong. If your going to blame anyone, blame the local police for not doing their job. Or literally anyone for not listening. Its not 1 factor but a multitudes of factors that lead to this event.
Why does anyone think Federal registration is possible or legal? When you register your car it’s in a state database not a national one. There is no Federal DMV or Federal voter rolls etc, it’s all done at the state level that’s how federalism works.
And?
“assault rifle”
It was called an Assualt Weapon, not an Assualt Rifle. an assualt rifle is an actual term.
ie :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.[1][2][3][4][5] Assault rifles were first used during World War II.[6][7][8] Though Western nations were slow to accept the assault rifle concept, by the end of the 20th century they had become the standard weapon in most of the world's armies, replacing full-powered rifles and sub-machine guns in most roles.[8] Examples include the StG 44, AK-47 and the M16 rifle.[8]
Canada!
"On September 8, 2014 an appeal by the Barbra Schlifer Clinic to the Ontario Superior Court of Justice to rule that the withdrawal of the non-restricted firearms registration requirement was unconstitutional was denied. The applicants sought to show that the removal of the registration requirement denied women their rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to: "life, liberty and security of the person".
In its judgment the court ruled that there was not sufficient evidence to conclude that the registration of non-restricted firearms had been of any measurable benefit to women and that statistically rates of firearms-related violence had been following a trend downward before the requirement was introduced and had not changed after the requirement had been withdrawn.[42]"
The Federal government operates the No Fly List and they have made numerous mistakes with it and refused to fix them.
Looked it up found that information lacking. Some of the information I found points to that it is being fixed. Your Generalizations are not helping your argument.
The Federal government maintains the database of NSA surveillamce and has illegally misused it on multiple documented instances.
Source it. Federal Agencies are allowed to under the patriot act and various surivellence acts to spy on suspected US entities with a warrant.
Not illegal.
I fail to see what a list of gun owners would do to prevent someone from killing a legal gun owner and taking their weapons ala Sandy Hook. Also, throwing around "Mental Illness" as a bar to owning guns is hopelessly, laughably vague. Schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, what exactly are you talking about? And if someone takes medication, do we still not let them have guns? If someone overcomes their depression or whatever, they then have to go to a court to prove they should be able to exercise their rights again?
They are a afraid of abuse which is possible with NRA intervention. (Which has become a corrupted entity currently).
Define 'good reason' and how you put a system in place to verify a 'good reason' exists.
For example, bulk ammo is cheaper. When I shoot, I go through several magazines from each gun I take out, so can easily blow through 500-1000 rounds each time I shoot. Why should I be forced to buy ammo in boxes of 20 rounds when a crate of 1000 is a lot cheaper? What purpose does that serve?
If you ask for a loan you need good reasoning. Is it logical? Is it Rational? "I need more ammo cause it is cheaper, I am planning on going on a trip."
Do not make it complicated.
When it becomes time to discuss registration lists, they really enjoy lumping cars, ladders, and guns together, because they are just equivalent consumer products. Right? Right?
False Equalivence.
Car =/= Gun
Gun is a lethal weapon. A car is a mode of transportation. Cars can also be used and are heavily regulated in comparision to Guns.
Guns are not regulated at all currently apart from civilian vs military weapon debates. Guns currently are a free-range as of current.
The question that needs to be asked IMO is why people are driven to attack schools and why they use a gun for it. My guess would be the status of the gun in some places and an attitude of machismo and belief in “might is right” that pervades some cultures within the US. I think some gun laws are symptomatic of this, but not the cause.
Currently hard to address with a Republician held Congress and a Republician President who keep cutting spending into school, education, and mental health, and keep recieving lobbying money from the NRA.
I have pointed several times, that a hand gun can in some states be legally obtain only at the age of 21. This kid went out and bought a high powered rifle (AR-15) at the store at 18. Twice the killing the potential of a handgun. That is a flaw in the system that allowed someone to abuse it.
Declining Mental Health and the Rise Of White Nationalism is no coincidence in most of these cases.
AS the people often targeted (as said shooter) are weak individuals who are lonely and isolated easy for recruitment. Its usually the same people and these are at risk people and we have no way to report them until they have done something. This person was reported but nothing was done at the state and national levels.
I've always believed that it's the attitude people have towards guns that is the problem. Gun ownership may be at an all time high, but respect for guns is at an all time low. Just look at how many people refer to their guns as toys, and you'll understand what I mean.
A bit of both, here we see them as toys, other countries treat them with respect. (Not to Generalize, but the US has more homocides and prison sentences for minor crimes in general, thus driving more people into crime because of their private prison system of debts)
Heres a great article!
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html Home invasions and burglaries are kind of a thing, in case you didn't know.
Yes because robbers will immedately respond to a national registry only accessible by government entities.
Yes it is 'easy' as easy being a national worker or state worker to go corrupt and give it criminals. Which 1. is a conspiracy theory and such a flaunt of reason I have no idea how that has baring other than fear mongering.
People in this thread have advocated for both the repeal of the second amendment and for people to have their weaponry taken by force.. Rational you say?
Who? I have advocated for stricter laws in place like we do have for cars and other items. And I've only been met with hostility towards my statements and gross generalizations for anti-guns.
(I am also a gun owner
BTW)
So enough of the
BS.
By that definition, alcohol, which is not a useful tool, but causes eight times the number of deaths as gun related homicides, should be subject to far stricter controls than guns.
WE did ban alcohol for a while you know. Alcohol is an actual poision, an addictive substance and is a natural process that also has many medical uses. False Equalivence, and Leap of Logic indeed.
You'd think after the vegas shooting that banning any conversion kits to allow weapons to fire like a automatic weapon would be a easy thing to ban, but yet not even that little thing could get passed.
Seek statement about NRA preventing gun legislation because of an entire Republican own caucus.
Alcohol is not subject to stricter controls than firearms. ANYONE over the age of 21 can buy whatever alcohol they ant in whatever quantity they want. Convicted felons can buy alcohol, people who have been adjudicated as mentally defective can buy alcohol, people who have been convicted of drunk driving can buy alcohol, people who have committed domestic violence can buy alcohol. There is no background check required to purchase alcohol. Being actively enrolled in state mandated substance abuse programs doesn’t prevent people from buying alcohol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States Alcohol also cannot be bootlegged or moonshined LEGALLY. Which guns do not have that obligation. Also Alcohol selling requires a permit, WHICH guns do not!
So no you keep saying this statements but with no evidence.
We have many laws that are in place to regulate Alcohol. Which guns do not have.
So please educate yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 
Mr. Burning wrote:Alcohol is a red herring in this argument, on both sides.
So are ladders
And automobiles.
And vans and trucks and knives
Yup its an Equalivence, guns are a lethal weapon, cars are a mode of transportation but cars are more regulated than guns are.
The barring of the argument is "We need more regulations for guns."
And thats not a hard thing to ask for.
So far in this thread people have jumped to conclusions and assumed the worst and fear mongered. So yes that "Gun Owners List" Has yet to be disproved other than some NON-Government entity abusing it. If it is made private and only accessible by the state or federal level then boom safe. It would be the same thing for cars with registration numbers, locations, earnings, etc all placed on the list.
Not much to ask for.
