Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
No generic HQ would be a bit weird wouldn't it?

Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince?

I meant one specific to them.

Bloodloyrd Skullmastare or something.

Aight, I must say, I'm very pleased with how these berserkers turned out, especially pleased by how restrained GW was with how reasonable the gold trims are here and the lack of thos god awful biomecanical cables they decided to cover CSM in recent years. They even kept the gloves which I feared they removed, and that's nice.

I don't mind the bare arm but I feel like it's turning what was Kharn "thing" into just a generic thing, which is a shame. I do like cataphractii style shoulderpad tho, and I like that all helmets are different (even if some are a bit silly, like that Khain style one that looks more like a piece of Lizardmen gear or a very harmfisted "DID YOU KNOW THAT KHAIN IS A PART OF KHORN" bit than something that really belong on a khorne berserker.

What I like a bit less tho is the apparently lack of options here.
Having the icon be a backpack thing so the carrier can still chop stuff is fine by me, but where are the Berserker Champion options?
I have the feeling that GW will just copout again and say that the axes and swords have the same stats for that unit, which will reduce its build diversity to just "cheap boltpistol or more expensive plasma?" and "How many 2H weapon you want in that squad", which is very... limited for what is supposed to be the core of the army.

It's especially silly when you look at the Death guard and their (admitedly awfully designed and bloated) options, and how they have way more mele stuff than what (as far as I can tell) the berserkers will get.
They have 2 different types of mele heavy weapons, a base mele weapon that can be swapped for a Mace or axe and the option to go dual wield, while the champions has fist or powersword.

I would have expected the Berserkers to have at least the option to dual wield and 2 different type of mele heavy weapons (axe or sword) and a meaningful difference between their axe and swords.

I may be reading too much into the limited numbers of pics we got so far, but I really hope I'm wrong here and they'll get more than the stuff they showed us so far.

In terms of options, I'm just annoyed none of them have a right hand melee weapon.

 judgedoug wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

They very very clearly said nothing about Terminators in any of this though, did they?

Indeed, with that logic, the absence of the names of other releases specifically leads me to believe there are no further models coming.

Thats a gross misconstrual of my point, and you know it.

We are saying there are no terminators coming because reliable sources told us that they aren't coming. You are saying they "very very clearly" said xyz as an apparent attempt to challenge the belief that terminators aren't coming - my point is that nowhere in that does it say anything about terminators and we know there are other units that haven't yet been previewed that are explicitly not terminators, ergo your "very very clear" statement does nothing to actually challenge the idea that there are no world eaters termies.

 Arbitrator wrote:
No generic HQ would be a bit weird wouldn't it?

I'm sure someone will chime in with another pic from the Thousand Sons release to prove me wrong, but... did Thousand Sons have one in 7th ed (or was it 6th?) when they got resculpted? If I recall it was just Ahriman and Magnus, otherwise your only option was to use the generic CSM minis for Lords/Sorceror/Daemon Prince, etc. I believe the Exalted Sorcerors released with their 8th edition codex, which was their first generic HQ unit (and which I am convinced was originally intended to be some sort of a unit rather than a box containing 3 HQs).

EviscerationPlague wrote:
In terms of options, I'm just annoyed none of them have a right hand melee weapon.

Huh. You're right. I genuinely didn't notice that

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

chaos0xomega wrote:

I'm sure someone will chime in with another pic from the Thousand Sons release to prove me wrong, but... did Thousand Sons have one in 7th ed (or was it 6th?) when they got resculpted? If I recall it was just Ahriman and Magnus, otherwise your only option was to use the generic CSM minis for Lords/Sorceror/Daemon Prince, etc. I believe the Exalted Sorcerors released with their 8th edition codex, which was their first generic HQ unit (and which I am convinced was originally intended to be some sort of a unit rather than a box containing 3 HQs).

Exalted Sorcerers were 7th, as was everything except the Infernal Master. They didn't get anything with their 8th codex except being able to take the Vortex Beast (which already had a model).

Bare arms! Just as I’d hoped. Fantastic. These look really good. Exactly as I would have done the, if I had the talent. Love a nod to an old model.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Interesting that the Master of Executions stays as an HQ, though I guess that that's thematic. Also, any word if cultists are going to be in there? Because they're pretty universal across all Chaos forces.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Interesting that the Master of Executions stays as an HQ, though I guess that that's thematic. Also, any word if cultists are going to be in there? Because they're pretty universal across all Chaos forces.

No information that I'm aware of beyond the above, but keep in mind the source in question was just answering questions ad hoc so an omission is more a reflection of what questions he was asked than it is a "this isn't in the codex". I'd bet a limb that cultists will be in the book as they are in DG & TS

It's been a long time since I've played, but last I remember, weren't Eviscerators (i.e. big two handed chainswords) effectively treated like chainfists, rules-wise?

If so, that two handed axe and two handed chainsword might end up the functional equivalent of powerfists / chainfists. Just speculating at the moment.

In any case, I am pleasantly surprised with the new kit. A nice, clean, no nonsense look, no crazy mutations, none of those weird mutated tubes. Lots of MKV-ish armor, especially the chest pieces.

There are bits I'm not super fond of - I prefer all my guys to have helmets, and I'm not really on board with the cataphract-esque shoulder pads on some of them.

But overall, I'm quite pleased with the results.

As far as terminators go, I will be quite disappointed if there aren't any. But lots of armies seem to be released in multiple waves these days, so I'll hold out hope.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
In terms of options, I'm just annoyed none of them have a right hand melee weapon.

It’s very rare for right handed melee weapons for csm
Raptors have them
The shadow spear champion does
And a few hq

 GaroRobe wrote:
It’s very rare for right handed melee weapons for csm
Raptors have them
The shadow spear champion does
And a few hq

Current 'Zerker box has 'em too.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Interesting that the Master of Executions stays as an HQ, though I guess that that's thematic. Also, any word if cultists are going to be in there? Because they're pretty universal across all Chaos forces.

No information that I'm aware of beyond the above, but keep in mind the source in question was just answering questions ad hoc so an omission is more a reflection of what questions he was asked than it is a "this isn't in the codex". I'd bet a limb that cultists will be in the book as they are in DG & TS

Ok, that makes sense. I'm wondering if for the stuff that isn't directly in the codex but should be, like Possessed and Havocs, if it will be like how the Slaves to Darkness units in the CSM codex, where you can play them but have to look at another codex for the datasheet.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

This would be a completely dog gak release if true.

That is indeed very disappointing.

I find it kind of unbelievable that Chaos Lords would not be in the codex, as there are numerous World Eaters Chaos Lords in the fluff.

Brazen Beasts is also a weird one for a legion codex when they've usually gone out of their way to try and separate the Renegades from the Legions.

Its would be insane to release them without their own Terminators.
Especially as the Warhammer plus free model was one to get people hyped for the book.

Sorry guys you can't use your free model with the actual army as we didn't make any more Terminators to put him with.

 dan2026 wrote:
Its would be insane to release them without their own Terminators.
Especially as the Warhammer plus free model was one to get people hyped for the book.

Sorry guys you can't use your free model with the actual army as we didn't make any more Terminators to put him with.

I doubt it was just to hype a codex, but to use a piece of iconic art.

I'd expect the model to come with Legends rules, just like the Warhammer World Command Tanks do.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Pinch of salt time - based on observations of DG and Thousand Sons, shared units etc.

- Shared units both books have in common with CSM - Daemon Princes, Chaos Cultists, Chaos Rhinos, Chaos Predators, Chaos Land Raiders, Defilers, Helbrutes, Chaos Spawn - I fully expect all of those to be present. However, I am a bit more iffy about the Daemon Engines - Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Heldrakes. The only reason I see them remaining in Thousand Sons was as a nod to the fact that old Thousand Sons armies basically were forced 'thematically' into daemonic possession - that and the Heldrake could be a very cheeky nod to the Doomwing and Firelord from epic.

DG got generic Chaos Lords & Terminator Lords and Terminator Sorcerers. TS got generic Chaos Sorcerers and Terminator Sorcerers - so it wouldn't be far fetched to expect World Eaters to get access to Generic Chaos Lords and Terminator Lords.

The idea of the Master of Executions being ported over is different. It certainly is thematic and at worse it's just another Lord sculpt tbh. If the generic Chaos Lord ISN'T in the book then I'd expect the World Eater Special Lord Type to pretty much have the same options - so basically, you WE Lords now become that new Lord type, minimal fuss. But I'm really expect a cheap Lord and a more expensive premium Lord type - just as DG and TS get with their counterparts.

The lack of Terminators - again, questionable. I don't expect a 100% full port over. But when you look at both TS and DG they have gotten 3.5 Terminator equivalents. The Thousand Sons Terminators are LITERALLY the exact layout you could give 3.5 Rubric Terminators - combi bolter, power weapon, no upgrades. There's 'new' options but a 3.5 Thousand Sons player literally had the new unit if they were allowed to Counts As the staple power weapons as the swords or were willing to just buy a bunch of cheap sword bits and convert.

DG Blightlords are pretty much the same layout as standard CSM Terminators, minus a few options (and annoyingly kit restricted).- they lost mauls and fist weapons. Annoying but the rest is still there. Combi-weapons, the Reaper Autocannon, hell, the Plague Spewer is just a Nurgle Heavy Flamer tbh. Plus, though the loss of mauls and fists is annoying...the most common power weapon in the 3.5 era was the chainaxe arm which was just packed as the generic terminator arm.

So Khorne Terminators aren't that far fetched. The only reason I'd tell people to avoid them for now is in case of a new better looking kit for them. To not have them would be VERY odd as Berserker terminators are always something of a fan favourite. And Red Butchers appear to have become beloved as well - and if they can bring Deathshroud across....

Possessed - eh, as long as the 'second' option just lets you use your current possessed as the new ones, not really a big fuss for me. The 8 daemons in one guy sounds interesting depending on the sculpt - I do hope we get to see some sort of Berserker Hulk/Abomination style for this thing.

I would never have expected Havocs or Raptor equivalents. Again, the 3.5 list for the Mark of Khorne seems to be a solid core to go by here. I don't know if they're intentionally following it or just making a nod....but everything that TS and DG have seems to follow that. The only oddity is DG losing their Havocs - but that was from an era when you could have all special weapon havoc squads.

I'd hope the Dark Apostle or a Khorne version carries across, otherwise an army with zero deny the witch capacity outside of stratagems or a single relic that is entirely reliant on assault is going to get rolled over by, well...almost everything else. Tau don't have any anti-psyker but also are entirely ranged in focus so it's a non issue. Oh, you have to come within X inches? Hope you enjoy my rapid firing there. But without an anti psyker unit or character (and a Khorne Priest would be really thematic for this) - Grey Knights, Tyranids and Daemons are just going to be absolute hell to face. Not to mention SM or other CSM armies chuckling along as well.

 dan2026 wrote:
Its would be insane to release them without their own Terminators.
Especially as the Warhammer plus free model was one to get people hyped for the book.

What's the phrase? Games Workshop never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

chaos0xomega wrote:
GW really like to "tell a narrative" with their sculpts (apparently - they say it all the f*****g time on these streams), if I were to guess the "narrative" here is that the terminator pauldron gives them a little more freedom of movement and mobility with their unarmored arm than the regular power armor pauldron, which is why they swap it out.

You mean the ""narrative"" of pads not magically floating in the air, but locking into the frame around armored shoulder piece of the marine? Specifically so it can move in response of signals from arm to not limit movement? The frame that is not present on bare arm (unless you were to nail said frame into the bicep or something) so logically another, simpler solution (such as oh, I don't know, simpler, flatter pad resting on top of the shoulder) but I guess that's too complicated for complainers that apparently never saw any SM art or read how the power armour is actually supposed to work, eh?

Such dastardliness from GW, actually following their own lore - inconceivable!

Imagine if they put the same effort in the marked legions than they just put on the LoV.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Brazen Beasts is also a weird one for a legion codex when they've usually gone out of their way to try and separate the Renegades from the Legions.

I agree. The Brazen Beasts are not World Eaters, they're the fallen members of the Golden Blades chapter.

The leaker referred to the Lord on Juggernaut character as "Lord Invocatus", who is a World Eaters Lord who fights alongside the Brazen Beasts in the 8e CSM codex. He might have just mixed up the reference and assumed he was from the Brazen Beasts himself

They look very toyish and unthreatening for bloodthirsty chaos marines.

Siegfriedfr wrote:
They look very toyish and unthreatening for bloodthirsty chaos marines.

wat?
They are literally standard upscalled marines. Wtf did you wanted more? MORE gold trims and skulls on every single surface of the mini?

The only problem with thos minies is the frankly awful painjob that looks very, VERY clean, that you could almost could call "cartoonish", but the mini themselves are perfectly fine.

kinda agree with Siegfriedr on that, something about them feels off. Not sure if its the sculpts (would have expected gouges and dents in their armor to highlight their savagery and tendency to prioritize battle over maintenance, etc. Also the degree of chaotic embellishment somehow feels more subdued than that of regular CSM marines - no daemonic eyes or snarling faces tearing through their armor, fewer spikes/tusks/horns, etc. in general just kinda seem like regular marines with some more spikes and anger issues) or if its the paint job (very clean overall, would have expected more blood spatter and weathering/wear, etc.).

Not a big thing really, not something I'd go out of my way to complain about, not something I can't easily fix myself. They just fell a bit short of expectation.

Some battle damage might have been nice, but personally i'm happy they're rather subdued as I'm looking to use them as heresy-ers World Eaters and they'll fit right in with little modification and a change of backpacks.

I think the issue is mainly the paint job. Give em some weathering and blood splatter and I think they'll look at home in either 40k or 30k

chaos0xomega wrote:
kinda agree with Siegfriedr on that, something about them feels off. Not sure if its the sculpts (would have expected gouges and dents in their armor to highlight their savagery and tendency to prioritize battle over maintenance, etc.

 Zywus wrote:
Some battle damage might have been nice, but personally i'm happy they're rather subdued as I'm looking to use them as heresy-ers World Eaters and they'll fit right in with little modification and a change of backpacks.

I think the issue is mainly the paint job. Give em some weathering and blood splatter and I think they'll look at home in either 40k or 30k

Honestly, the less scultped battle damage the better. It's way easier to add them yourself than trying to remove them.
Again, the real problem here is how... totally off the mark the painjob is.
They painted thos Khorne Berserkers like if they were some clean Blood Angels, and even then, you often see more weathering and painted scratch on the angel boys than what they did for thos supposed extremely gritty and savage berskerers.

If there's one mini that needs 400% weathering, splatter and scratching in the paintjob it's them, even more so than the Plague Marine themselves.

Sure, I can agree with that. I think in general the point is that unlike the Death Guard, CSM, and Thousand Sons (insofar as the sorcerors and the like are concerned, not so much the rubric marines), as painted the Berserker minis do not exude "character" in the way some of us expect them to. Its nothing that couldn't be fixed with some more paint and weathering IMO, but its disappointing that after waiting this long GW didn't put a bit more effort into it.

Someone earlier mentioned about players possibly using Possessed models as a stand-in for the eight-daemons-in-one-dude unit if the codex doesn't have Possessed and you want to have them in your army regardless. It sounds like a good idea, but has there been any info about how big that new model's base size is going to be?

Pretty sure this wasn’t rumoured….

Get a First Look at Brand New World Eaters Parts - WarCom

So we are getting some kind of big, close combat unit or something.

I didn't think the rumors alluded to anything like that

Edit: unless it is that eight daemons in one thing?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The rest of the heads are okay? I still think the FW upgrade heads are far superior. These just look like the conversions people made from the AOS Khorne heads and the current CSM helmets. A few notably Mk 5 heads or older versions would have been a nice addition.

Looks like a Khorne-specific melee Obliterator tbh - the arms, the plate and the head are similar in shape. So I guess it's one of the big Possessed?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Pretty sure this wasn’t rumoured….

Whelp, I guess we know where Mutilators have gone now. Looks like they're going to be a World Eaters exclusive.

That might be the rumoured super possessed

Large breast plate and chainfist... Could it be terminators?

 vim_the_good wrote:
Large breast plate and chainfist... Could it be terminators?

...no, absolutely not, the proportions and design and scale are all wrong. They match Obliterators much better.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
...no, absolutely not, the proportions and design and scale are all wrong. They match Obliterators much better.

It does indeed looks more like an obliterator thing... or maybe a Hellbrute (the head has the same kind of elongated look than the Hellbrute usually have).
Now the question is, will this be a random standalone kit, or will GW take the opportunity to make a dual build with the obliterator and bring an end to its current sorry state of monopose minis sharing a sprue with a venomcrawler?

Thread is excelent example to dictionary under phrase "hope dies last"

I guess chainblades with extra blades which get in the way of the CHAIN part are just a common feature of Chaos now.

While they could be Mutilators, the Mutilators in lore look quite different, having far more twisted and fleshier appearance than this:



I personally lean towards them being Terminators, most likely Red Butchers.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
While they could be Mutilators, the Mutilators in lore look quite different, having far more twisted and fleshier appearance than this:

Spoiler:

I personally lean towards them being Terminators, most likely Red Butchers.

Obliterators also used to look like that.

And then lo and behold, they got models that actually look half-decent and their look changed completely.

Thus, it would only make sense for Mutilators to get a similar redesign to be in line with the new Obliteators.

The Obliterators still have the appearance of their weapons being fused to/having grown out of their bodies, and the body is still extremely bloated, while the new sprues make it look like the weapon has simply been put on and that there has been no real change in the proportions of the musculature.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The Obliterators still have the appearance of their weapons being fused to/having grown out of their bodies, and the body is still extremely bloated, while the new sprues make it look like the weapon has simply been put on and that there has been no real change in the proportions of the musculature.

Look at where the hand and chainblade meet. That looks pretty "fused" to me. And as for "proportions": that hand is the size of a power fist.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Pretty sure this wasn’t rumoured….

Wasn't there a rumour all the way back a few years ago that Mutilators were going to disappear from CSM and reappear with the World Eaters?

Because those parts look like Obliterator style parts to me - the head, the chest place, the arm. People have already posted the outstretched fist Obliterator as a comparison.

For those saying it looks too thin? Stick a massive chonky shoulder pad on it. And it looks just like that Obliterator Power Fist arm just with a chainblade attached.

So I think that rumour that got laughed off like 2 years back (?) might actually be having some meat on its bones...

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The Obliterators still have the appearance of their weapons being fused to/having grown out of their bodies, and the body is still extremely bloated, while the new sprues make it look like the weapon has simply been put on and that there has been no real change in the proportions of the musculature.

My guy, I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're going on about.

My first thought seeing the post was "mutilator", followed by "weird World Eaters specific Helbrute". The proportions and detailing I think leans towards mutilator or mutiliator-like. The chestplate (I think thats a chestplate?) is the wrong shape for a helbrute and the scaling and detailing of the arm matches the obliterators pretty closely, including the hosing and socketing.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
While they could be Mutilators, the Mutilators in lore look quite different, having far more twisted and fleshier appearance than this:

Spoiler:

I personally lean towards them being Terminators, most likely Red Butchers.

They're not terminators. Give it up.

tneva82 wrote:
Thread is excelent example to dictionary under phrase "hope dies last"

Indeed. I don't know what part of "reliable rumormonger with 100% accuracy told us no terminators in the release" people are having difficulty parsing, but this is pathetic.

The leakers didn't say Mutilators were coming either and that is 100% a Mutilator arm.

I assume that's the super possessed. It looks like a mix of the new berserkers and the new possessed.

Perhaps the super-possessed and the new Mutilators are going to be one and the same.

If that is a Mutilator, I hope that rules are given for them to be used by regular CSM armies. As far as I know, they were used by most of the Legions.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Perhaps the super-possessed and the new Mutilators are going to be one and the same.

Would make a lot of sens ngl.
But that arm doesn't scream "processed fused with 8 blootletters" to me ether tbh.

Edit: After remembering how GW had sneakily revealed in advance the LoV Land Fortress by hidding it in the background of an illustration I took a second look at the WE illustration we got thus far and I've noticed something pretty interesting here :


See that thing right in the middle? At first I thought it was a Hellbrute, but they don't have bolter weapons, and the share looks more like a terminator to me.
So that would confirm that we got at least a terminator character with what looks like a weird 3 fingered power fist and a bolt weapon of some kind.

When we learned that Mutilators were not in the CSM Codex, I was sure that GW was going to recycle them with the World Eaters.

I should be somewhat happy but I am not. Because now I'm sure that the recent rumours we had were true. It's gonna be a release ala TS and it's gonna suck hard.

 (HN) wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Perhaps the super-possessed and the new Mutilators are going to be one and the same.

Would make a lot of sens ngl.
But that arm doesn't scream "processed fused with 8 blootletters" to me ether tbh.

Edit: After remembering how GW had sneakily revealed in advance the LoV Land Fortress by hidding it in the background of an illustration I took a second look at the WE illustration we got thus far and I've noticed something pretty interesting here :


See that thing right in the middle? At first I thought it was a Hellbrute, but they don't have bolter weapons, and the share looks more like a terminator to me.
So that would confirm that we got at least a terminator character with what looks like a weird 3 fingered power fist and a bolt weapon of some kind.

Ah, because GW have this fantastic history of showing art with options that the army or unit in question cant take. Remember the Heavy Bolter Plague Marines of 3rd edition?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 (HN) wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Perhaps the super-possessed and the new Mutilators are going to be one and the same.

Would make a lot of sens ngl.
But that arm doesn't scream "processed fused with 8 blootletters" to me ether tbh.

Edit: After remembering how GW had sneakily revealed in advance the LoV Land Fortress by hidding it in the background of an illustration I took a second look at the WE illustration we got thus far and I've noticed something pretty interesting here :


See that thing right in the middle? At first I thought it was a Hellbrute, but they don't have bolter weapons, and the share looks more like a terminator to me.
So that would confirm that we got at least a terminator character with what looks like a weird 3 fingered power fist and a bolt weapon of some kind.

Ah, because GW have this fantastic history of showing art with options that the army or unit in question cant take. Remember the Heavy Bolter Plague Marines of 3rd edition?

Recently they switched to basically a "no model, no art" approach - some models, like the Venocrawler were even fist seen on background artwork.

Then again, the covers of Codex: Genestealer Cults and Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus never got models, and we haven't got Imperial Knight bondsmen/sacristans yet, but they're pictured in the main rulebook...

There have been plenty of art pieces in recent years that don't show actual models. It was late 6th/7th/8th where they cleaved hard to "art can only depict models you can buy", not 9th.

 dan2026 wrote:
The leakers didn't say Mutilators were coming either and that is 100% a Mutilator arm.

Thats a stretch though. I think its more likely the new super-possessed happens to be a reincarnation of mutilators (obvs with a different name) then it actually being a "mutilator". (For that reason I don't expect mutilators to be made available to CSM again - sorry ArcaneHorror.

See that thing right in the middle? At first I thought it was a Hellbrute, but they don't have bolter weapons, and the share looks more like a terminator to me.

Helbrute Twin-linked heavy bolter and and twin bolter claw option both say "Am I a joke to you?"

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Then again, the covers of Codex: Genestealer Cults and Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus never got models, and we haven't got Imperial Knight bondsmen/sacristans yet, but they're pictured in the main rulebook...

I'm convinced the sacristans are coming next codex update.

I'm guessing it's just a character.

Thats also possible, keep seeing mentions of a Juggernaut (sp?) in rumors, seemed to be an HQ character.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Thats also possible, keep seeing mentions of a Juggernaut (sp?) in rumors, seemed to be an HQ character.

Named.

It's the Brazen Beasts Lord Discordant, he has a flying juggernaut-based mount or something to that effect.

 dan2026 wrote:
The leakers didn't say Mutilators were coming either and that is 100% a Mutilator arm.

The leaker listed the ranged options available to WE, and then responded to bespoke requests if X was in the codex. No one ever asked him if Mutilators were in or not, hence no comment in the earlier rumours.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean I honestly think it's just bizarre we're not getting Terminators - the other two legions got them (hell, Death Guard got two different kinds!). Is this just an anaemic release before a 10th ed book? We'll have to see.

I 'spose World Eaters 2: Now With The Other Half Of The New Models is coming pretty quickly into 10th.

The Lumineth are here and they say hello!

With 3rd book in as many years

tneva82 wrote:
With 3rd book in as many years

But this time it’s just one new model and a book right? Not half a full range

No wolves on Fenris wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
With 3rd book in as many years

But this time it’s just one new model and a book right? Not half a full range

Yeah, sadly

 Azazelx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean I honestly think it's just bizarre we're not getting Terminators - the other two legions got them (hell, Death Guard got two different kinds!). Is this just an anaemic release before a 10th ed book? We'll have to see.

I 'spose World Eaters 2: Now With The Other Half Of The New Models is coming pretty quickly into 10th.

The Lumineth are here and they say hello!

As do the Soulblight Gravelords!

My guess with WE and LoV is that they will get more in 10th and they have sculpts ready but are just gonna wait it out so they can milk customers piecemeal.

 Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Thats also possible, keep seeing mentions of a Juggernaut (sp?) in rumors, seemed to be an HQ character.

Named.

It's the Brazen Beasts Lord Discordant, he has a flying juggernaut-based mount or something to that effect.

But yeah, Jump Packs ANYWHERE in the codex would be just absurd.

WE Players: Sure would love from Khornate Terminators, bikers or even jump packers.
GW: How 'bout a flying Jugger character???
WE Players: Well, sure, but we'd also li-
GW: Just the flying jugger! You don't need the other things.
WE Players: But we want-
GW: Also here's a WE Terminator, but only for W+ subscribers.
WE Players: WTF GW???

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
WE Players: Sure would love from Khornate Terminators, bikers or even jump packers.
GW: How 'bout a flying Jugger character???
WE Players: Well, sure, but we'd also li-
GW: Just the flying jugger! You don't need the other things.
WE Players: But we want-
GW: Also here's a WE Terminator, but only for W+ subscribers.
WE Players: WTF GW???

You forgot that they'll also get the very much requested berserker cultists, because World Eaters are very well known for their tolerance of squeeshy mortals and because Chaos really didn't get enough cultists and traitor models recently

I believe that GW pushes cultists to distinguish Loyal and Chaos Marines a bit more, which in my opinion is ok. It is by far not as bad as the AoS S2D Cultist flood.

I am currently curious what exclusive/stand out units WE will receive. Red Butchers seem likely as TS and DG have their signature Terminators already and we can create butchers with a strat already. Then we know from the leaks about the Khorngors, and ofc Angron. Khorne Deamons can be added in as their own detachment, we have the rules for that already, which sadly means no mixed detachments.

If only they made the cultists half-decent, both in tabletop sense and in the kit sense

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If only they made the cultists half-decent, both in tabletop sense and in the kit sense

Wouldn't that be nice? Makes me smile to imagine.

Khorne Cultists are doomed by concept: In an meele faction they would have to either punch hard enough to matter or provide otherwise utility. As due to AoC this would mean punching with at least S4 & AP-2, GW would either have to powercreep them hard from the beginning or provide them with another task. The archetype of cheap units that just stand on an objective is, well, not really appreciated and only played because usefull. Unless WE will have a similar mechanic to AoS Khorne(which is a design trap as it will always reward your opponent more than yourself), that rewards you for your units dying, I do not see much design headspace here.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If only they made the cultists half-decent, both in tabletop sense and in the kit sense

Agreed. I guess the unified theme for the BSF and current cultist make sense, as they actually look like they're members of the same cult. But not having options for a unit that's mean to be a horde is a dumb decision.

I also don't know if a unified cult look works for every CSM army. Word Bearers and Alpha Legion, sure. But I think a lot of the other legions are more likely to just have a horde of crazed people and mutants, a la the Dark Vengeance cultists.

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If only they made the cultists half-decent, both in tabletop sense and in the kit sense

Agreed. I guess the unified theme for the BSF and current cultist make sense, as they actually look like they're members of the same cult. But not having options for a unit that's mean to be a horde is a dumb decision.

I also don't know if a unified cult look works for every CSM army. Word Bearers and Alpha Legion, sure. But I think a lot of the other legions are more likely to just have a horde of crazed people and mutants, a la the Dark Vengeance cultists.

The DV cultists were just as uniform as the new kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 (HN) wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
WE Players: Sure would love from Khornate Terminators, bikers or even jump packers.
GW: How 'bout a flying Jugger character???
WE Players: Well, sure, but we'd also li-
GW: Just the flying jugger! You don't need the other things.
WE Players: But we want-
GW: Also here's a WE Terminator, but only for W+ subscribers.
WE Players: WTF GW???

You forgot that they'll also get the very much requested berserker cultists, because World Eaters are very well known for their tolerance of squeeshy mortals and because Chaos really didn't get enough cultists and traitor models recently

Who do you think crews their ships?

JSG wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If only they made the cultists half-decent, both in tabletop sense and in the kit sense

Agreed. I guess the unified theme for the BSF and current cultist make sense, as they actually look like they're members of the same cult. But not having options for a unit that's mean to be a horde is a dumb decision.

I also don't know if a unified cult look works for every CSM army. Word Bearers and Alpha Legion, sure. But I think a lot of the other legions are more likely to just have a horde of crazed people and mutants, a la the Dark Vengeance cultists.

The DV cultists were just as uniform as the new kit.

I disagree. The new cultists are based around the Servants of the Abyss cultist that came out for BSF. The new variations of cultists are also heavily themed around the same masks and icons that originated from BSF. It ties all the models together very well, but does it work for every army? I don't think so. Death Guard for example can take cultists, but nothing about the new kit screams nurgle follower.

The only real uniformity you get with DV is that for some reason, most of them have shawls on their shoulders (and you're stuck with identical models). Because CSM also don't care about their mortal chaff, the ragtag look that these cultists have can work for every army (they even look good as EC, if the clothes are painted flamboyantly). The fact that they're almost entirely clothed is also an advantage, because at the very least, it gives you the option to paint them differently so they don't look as copy paste. The new cultist have minimal clothing, and so I think you can have an easier time picking out which of the models are the same.

The DV cultists are literally mirrored sculpts. Their base clothing is just standard IG uniform. You could easily use the new traitor guard minis to get the same look because that's what the DV cultists are.

DV Cultists don't look like Traitor Guard. Neither do the Abyss/new Cultists.

JSG wrote:
Who do you think crews their ships?

I just assumed sentient chainaxes. Is that wrong?

I like the look of the new Cultists - I just wish there were SOME options in any of the kits. Like at least two at least slightly different builds per mini. Maybe a headswap or a weapon swap or an arm swap ANYTHING. Because two out of the three kits don't have a SINGLE option among them, and the Cultist kit just has the option to turn two guys into Champions.

The new cultists were such a painful fumble. Finally a decent box! Oh, but we didn't add any rifles or weapon options and almost zero customization of any kind. Just a textbook unforced error.

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Khorne Cultists are doomed by concept: In an meele faction they would have to either punch hard enough to matter or provide otherwise utility. As due to AoC this would mean punching with at least S4 & AP-2, GW would either have to powercreep them hard from the beginning or provide them with another task. The archetype of cheap units that just stand on an objective is, well, not really appreciated and only played because usefull. Unless WE will have a similar mechanic to AoS Khorne(which is a design trap as it will always reward your opponent more than yourself), that rewards you for your units dying, I do not see much design headspace here.

Poxwalkers and Tzaangors are basically a midfield distraction units that force you to deal with them. I suppose if we're losing al our fast attack options, giving us Khorngors (or whatever they are going to give us) that can move quickly into the midfield and act as a distraction unit is what they are thinking.

JSG wrote:
Who do you think crews their ships?

Probably not the naked, chainsword wielding cultists berserkers we are talking about.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I disagree. The new cultists are based around the Servants of the Abyss cultist that came out for BSF. The new variations of cultists are also heavily themed around the same masks and icons that originated from BSF. It ties all the models together very well, but does it work for every army? I don't think so. Death Guard for example can take cultists, but nothing about the new kit screams nurgle follower.

Yeah, I for one really hate the direction they went with "culstists" look.
The BSF cultists of the Abyss were fine as its own special thing, but turning them into "THE cultists" is just bad, especially when these guys looks more like cosplayers than actual real culstist and what makes it worse is how GW have make them (and the much enticipated traitor guards) totally monopose with almost no customisation.... because being able to field large number of horde model that don't all look like the repeat of the same 10 VERY "characterful" minies is a good idea...

The real problem here for me is the same that we got with the Poxwalkers for the death guard, you end up creating a chaff version of the main marine unit, which leads them to compete directly with said marine, and only the strongest (ie the best pointed) unit will be used.
Why pick the Plague Marine, a unit meant to be sturdy when you can have cheaper and sturdier poxwalkers? It was so bad that they had to make rules to force you to not ONLY take thos poxwalkers.

And I can see that happen with the khorn cultists. Why would you want to add mele chaff, or glass canon mele, in an army where the berserkers are supposed to be the bread and butter?
Either these guys will be undercosted and outshine the zerkers, or they won't and will be a wast of everyone's time.
I honestly don't understand why GW thought making mele chaff was more important than making the terminator for thos WE.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
The new cultists were such a painful fumble. Finally a decent box! Oh, but we didn't add any rifles or weapon options and almost zero customization of any kind. Just a textbook unforced error.

That's what we call getting NewBoyzed.

 choppinboard wrote:
Poxwalkers and Tzaangors are basically a midfield distraction units that force you to deal with them. I suppose if we're losing al our fast attack options, giving us Khorngors (or whatever they are going to give us) that can move quickly into the midfield and act as a distraction unit is what they are thinking.

You can't really distract anything if what you are doing is the same thing than the rest of the army. What these guys will do is the same thing than the berserkers behind them, rushing forward, so sure they can tarpit, but in this day and age where GW just decided that everyone and their grandmother need to have a "cleave" option while selling units by smaller and smaller boxes, I don't see how these guys could be ever effective.

 (HN) wrote:

 choppinboard wrote:
Poxwalkers and Tzaangors are basically a midfield distraction units that force you to deal with them. I suppose if we're losing al our fast attack options, giving us Khorngors (or whatever they are going to give us) that can move quickly into the midfield and act as a distraction unit is what they are thinking.

You can't really distract anything if what you are doing is the same thing than the rest of the army. What these guys will do is the same thing than the berserkers behind them, rushing forward, so sure they can tarpit, but in this day and age where GW just decided that everyone and their grandmother need to have a "cleave" option while selling units by smaller and smaller boxes, I don't see how these guys could be ever effective.

Warp Talons charging turn one with the pre-game move act as a very good distraction unit that's killy/tough enough that your opponent has to focus fire on them. I can see Khorngors being tough with a way to slingshot them across the board quickly, and being killy on the charge but drop off in subsequent turns (which seems to be how Khorne Daemons are and how the Blood Bowl Khorngors are). This gives them some unique identity as melee shock troops as well as a distraction unit.

Good point, but Warptalon are also good because they are bodies you can slingshot at the enemy in an army that will take advantage of that move in shooting position while the enemy is tied up.
I imagine that the WE will be all about slingshoting marines at the face of the enemies and not having that much firepower that need some cover.
It would be like having Warptalon to cover for your Raptors in a way.

 (HN) wrote:
Good point, but Warptalon are also good because they are bodies you can slingshot at the enemy in an army that will take advantage of that move in shooting position while the enemy is tied up.
I imagine that the WE will be all about slingshoting marines at the face of the enemies and not having that much firepower that need some cover.
It would be like having Warptalon to cover for your Raptors in a way.

I can't disagree. Unless they expect us to take Land Raiders or there's more ranged firepower no one knows about coming down the pipeline, throwing melee units forward so your melee units can get into melee range is kind of silly. I remember back in Daemonkin days I would charge bikers headlong into the enemy to tie them up while rhinos full of zerkers moved up and I would summon Bloodletters in after all my bikers died. If there's no bikers/raptors/warptalons in WE, we need either fast moving Khorngors, Chaos Spawn, or Possessed.

I can see a stratagem allowing one unit of zerkers to advance+charge, or Angron having some kind of KILL MAIM BURN ability that makes all units in range charge forward like madmen. The Angron one makes sense because as it stands nothing will be able to keep up with him if he moves 14"+.