I have read some of the fluff in codices (plural of codex) but none of it talks about chow time. What do SM eat? I'm guessing some kind of High-protein gruel enriched with vitamins and minerals. I bet they could go for days/weeks without food with no ill effects.
Apparently they can ingest dirt and basic plant/animal matter and subsist off that for a looong time if necessary. Or they can put themselves into a deep meditative sleep to prolong survival even further if needed. Under non combat/ survival circmstances I guess it would depend on the chapter and the traditions/tastes of the populations they recruit from. Some go on ritual fasts and others like space wolves I could see enjoying a banquet in honor of a successful campaign.
They can eat almost anything, if they have to. They can also gain another person's memories by eating his delicious brain. However, I think they do mostly eat neutrient-rich gruel laced with combat drugs and hormones needed by their implants. Except for the space puppies who eat roast boar and drink mead for reasons to pointless to explain.
I would imagine a lot of chapters get waited on by chapter serfs & eat in a communal eating area when theyre kicking back at the Fortess monastery. I imagine the formality of the setting varying with chapter, for example in the above case, for Black Templars, they would be commanded to eat in silence, while one brother read aloud from the Codex Astartes, or the Imperial Creed.
By contrast, I can see the Space Wolves being quite informal, in the SW Novels they have feasts & quaff ale.
I assume the food would be the usual food that is eaten on whichever planet the monastery is situated on.
Conversely, I can see them being issued with tubes of nutrient paste rations when in the field.
Of course, Im not actually basing this on anything, other than how it is in my mind's eye.
Although I would like to know what kind of foods are 'culturally normal' for the basic chapters (Salamanders, White Scars, Dark Angels, etc). Hmm...something to think on.
Sons of Dorn describes mealtime for Imperial Fist aspirants. The food's served by servitors, is unrecognizable (to someone from a backwater Feudal World, at least), and "bland and all but tasteless," but "warm and filling," and the aspirants eat in near silence.
Azezel wrote:They can eat almost anything, if they have to. They can also gain another person's memories by eating his delicious brain. However, I think they do mostly eat neutrient-rich gruel laced with combat drugs and hormones needed by their implants. Except for the space puppies who eat roast boar and drink mead for reasons to pointless to explain.
I can explain the Space Puppies with a Common jewish answer to why they do many things that seem a bit off: Tradition!
Also I have heard Chaos Marines prefer to eat unbaptized Imperial Babies.
I was going to Answer with Space pups eating Mutton Joints and Tankards of Ale, but Azezel and Jack beat me to it.
I believe that Ultrasmurfs eat nothing but field rations of nutrient paste; They would eat better fare but when the administratum was allowing the chapters to choose what they wanted to eat the Ultras were on the other side of the galaxy
Spoiler:
where they are whenever anything happens not in their own backyards
You know, with the enhancements given through their genetic modifications, wouldn't Space Wolves drinking ale be pretty much pointless? Wouldn't their bodies break down the alcohol so fast that it wouldn't affect them at all?
Fafnir wrote:You know, with the enhancements given through their genetic modifications, wouldn't Space Wolves drinking ale be pretty much pointless? Wouldn't their bodies break down the alcohol so fast that it wouldn't affect them at all?
I think they're said either to have a superbrew that's too potent for even Space Marine physiology to handle without intoxication or simply to drink in such incredible quantities that even their enhanced bodies can't handle it. Maybe both.
In all seriousness, while they could eat anything, I'm under the impression that they get the absolute best of what the imperium can offer, including food.
In all seriousness, while they could eat anything, I'm under the impression that they get the absolute best of what the imperium can offer, including food.
They don't get the absolute best of everything. For example, they don't get Exorcists, Leman Russ tanks, Baneblades, or Titans. And they hardly get weapons suitable for long, drawn-out battles (bolter weapons are very inefficient for anything but short engagements).
Melissia wrote:
They don't get the absolute best of everything. For example, they don't get Exorcists, Leman Russ tanks, Baneblades, or Titans. And they hardly get weapons suitable for long, drawn-out battles (bolter weapons are very inefficient for anything but short engagements).
Marines get what they need to perform their job.
Marines by nature are a lot like our Marines, shock troops,they hit quick, heavy, hard, for longer fights carry or convoy in extra. Besides how is a Laz gun a better weapon? Sure you can recharge the magazine by tossing it into the fire... but come on.. really. Having used 9mm in the field training, and my own Sig .40 in the same op, I would take the "Bolter" over the Laz Pistol any day. I fact when I worked in Alabama collecting medical records from abandoned flood areas.. I TOOK THE SIG.
A crackhead will still come at you with 3-4 9 rounds in him, however hit him with a .40 and watch his knee joint, elbow, shoulder, or chest vanish. Bolter stops them, Laz Guns, they can but come on..
thegrav wrote:Besides how is a Laz gun a better weapon?
Because with a lasgun, you're incredibly unlikely to run out of ammunition for a long campaign. With a boltgun, you're incredibly unlikely to NOT run out of ammunition for a long campaign. Furthermore, a lasgun requires less maintenance for said long campaign, while a boltgun requires constant maintenance. Finally, a lasgun is easier to replace than a boltgun if it gets damaged due to constant use or enemy fire (it's also less likely TO get damaged due to constant use, too!)
Marines are not suitable for long campaigns or frontline combat. That's why they strike quickly, decapitate the enemy, then get the hell out of there. They cannot do what the Guard does as well as the Guard, because they are not equipped to do what the Guard does. Just like the Guard can't do what Marines do as well as Marines do it-- rapid deployment, quick strikes, and so on.
I think you have failed to understand the meaning of the term "Supply Lines" if you think a marine only has a clip or two for the duration of a campaign.
Also... Marines have a saying.. "One Shoot One Kill" I am sure the SM have the same mentality.
thegrav wrote:I think you have failed to understand the meaning of the term "Supply Lines" if you think a marine only has a clip or two for the duration of a campaign.
Also... Marines have a saying.. "One Shoot One Kill" I am sure the SM have the same mentality.
Ground-based supply lines can be cut off or captured, and aerial supply lines can be disrupted or shot down. Guard can handle that, they're made for it, their equipment is designed for it.
And typically, Marines don't carry much more than a few clips of bolter shells for a single battle. If they're unable to extract, then they can run out of ammunition very easy. And so what if they have one shot one kill? I sincerely doubt that is possible against the various enemies of the Imperium even with a Marine's marksmanship (Which are considerable indeed). It's easy to say one shot one kill in theory, but in the chaos of combat? Not so much so. Besides, how does that matter when there's hundreds more even after you've spent all your ammunition?
A boltgun clip has 24 shots in it, while a bolt pistol clip has 8. Assuming that they carry four clips (three and the one in the weapon) into battle, that's 96 shots per Marine. Compare this to a lasgun and lasgun pack-- one lasgun and four packs would be roughly 1200 shots per Guardsman (depending on which source you use, the exact number varies from author to author but three hundred shots is roughly normal from my experience). Considering that there'd probably be at least twenty times as many Gaurdsman deployed as Marines, this adds up considerably. And furthermore, this means that each Guardsman that is killed or wounded beyond combat effectiveness is no great loss to the Guard force, while each Marine killed or rendered ineffective is a huge loss to an Astartes force. And even more importantly, if the Guardmen are cut off, they can still keep fighting because their laspacks can be recharged in a fire or via sunlight, or using electricity if they're in a hive city. Marines, if they're cut off, will have to use their ammunition conservatively.
Marines aren't able to do what the Guard does as well as the Guard does it. Simple as that.
As for on topic, I imagine most of them eat chemical diets-- lots of drugs, hormones, and chemicals.
thegrav wrote:I think you have failed to understand the meaning of the term "Supply Lines" if you think a marine only has a clip or two for the duration of a campaign.
Also... Marines have a saying.. "One Shoot One Kill" I am sure the SM have the same mentality.
"One Shot, One Kill" is kinda hard to do when your enemy has a pretty good chance of deflecting the bullet entirely, like with Chaos or similar..
As much as it pains me to admit it, I agree with Melissia.
Marines are suited to the lightning strike, not the long, drawn out campaign. And for the ongoing campaign, the lasgun is the far more effective weapon. The Space Marines are not intended for the long ground war. Not only does it waste their abilities (during one ground war lasting five years, they could have conducted dozens or hundreds of lightning raids) but it means that the guard ends up having to do what the Space Marines should have been doing.
Although I can't back Mel's statement about the hormone/chemical diet. It just conjures images of Marines pounding down forty-o's of testosterone, which, while funny, is probably not accurate.
I read somewhere once that many chapters, when ever stationed on their homeworld at least, will often have some members go out and hunt what ever big game is in the area, preferably something dangerous and poisonous.
marines also eat pellets that have ceramic componds that make up a portion of their bone matter, the ceramic is absorbed and incorperated into the bone structure.
in a combat situation there are nutriant packs they can eat, but they are tasteless and most marines do prefer real food. Space Wolves in particular, but any marine likely has good tastes.
Ultramarines are known for their love of wine, Wolves their love of beer, meat, and occasionally women.
White Scars must be jacked off their arses on Kick, Red Bull, Emerge and the like as well as snorting sherbert like cocaine, then mixing it with cocaine. That's why they like to drive so fast.
As most have said they can ingest almost anything. Depending on the chapters traditions their food will vary accordingly. They will obviously need food with LOTS of energy in. Depending on a marines development their diets will change accordingly, e.g a developing neophyte has to eat far more nutrients than a standard marine.
theocd wrote: then mixing it with cocaine. That's why they like to drive so fast.
Actually... If space marine constitution is such that they can resist poison, it would make sense that they are basically jacked up on enough stimulants to make a regular human heart explode.
That and I bet they get fed bricks of steroids, etc.
I based my chemical diet off of something I read in a previous SM codex, but I can't quite remember which one. Regardless, SM initiates at least do need special chemicals in order to ensure their bones and muscles grow properly.
in the Space Wolve omnibus, Ragnar and Hagar are sizing up a dancing girl in the Navigator house. Nothing happens, but i wouldn't say that the urge wasn't there.
now you could argue that a Space Wolf might be more in touch with his carnal side then other marines, but its not to say a marine that wasn't a space wolf wouldn't have reproductive urges. A Marine could certaintly tell when a female was sizing him up.
Oh, I think Marines have normal urges and whatnot, I just don't think that the majority of human women can handle sex with them without sustaining serious injury. It's possible a scout marine could do it, but I don't think a normal marine could do the deed without harming their partner. Of course, I don't think that's going to stop Chaos marines from doing it. Especially not the Emperor's Children (with their guitars and their Prince outfits...)
I'd always assumed that SMs just had their waste recycled until there was no nutritive value left in it, paired with some kind of sporadic cocktail of supplements. Not that I read it in any source mind you it's just what came to mind as most fitting given exactly what they are.
On the side note about the space marine's... love life. I can't imagine they have one.
Even our modern steroids basically destroy your sexual function, and can even shrink the organs in question. They don't necessarily kill desire but certainly hinder the ability to act on those desires. What we have is pretty mild stuff compared to what marines go through. I can't imagine they have much left in their pants other than something resembling a small scrap of jerky. (Not that I'm saying the extent of human sexuality or even most of it is about the phallus but I think it's relevant to what most people in this thread would be talking about)
Again, hoping to keep this mature and clinical rather than grotesque and fratboyish.
I would ASSUME that...you know what? Never mind. I am sure that any point I can make about marines having sex or not having sex has already been made here, there, and everywhere in between. I am sure that you have read a dozen and a half arguements for, against, and indifferent to the idea of Space Marines having sex. And since I am pretty sure that this is one of those topics that cannot possibly be handled with any deal of good grace or tact, I am going to beg off. Everyone has their own opinion on the subject and no amount of posting is going to change it.
Melissia wrote:Why would one assume their genitilia grows larger than the normal human?
Their muscles and bones are grown larger. Not their boners.
edit: And I can't believe this discussion has brought me to say that.
Even if their genitals are the normal size, imagine the muscles in those pelvic thrusts!
In all seriousness, I bet only Space Wolves even think about it. The rest of them are all too holy, prayerful, meditative and concerned with the smiting of the Emperor's foes for any love making.
Which would hurt them as much as the woman. Male genitalia can be torn and burned by that kind of activity as well.
I doubt even the Space Wolves actually go through with it, even if they think about it. As noted, steroids-- which Marines take a lot of during their formative stages, as well as plenty of other hormones, artificial and otherwise-- stunt that part of one's physiology.
edit: And you know, it amuses me that we're talking about penises in a thread entitled "What do Space Marines Eat?".
Melissia wrote:Which would hurt them as much as the woman. Male genitalia can be torn and burned by that kind of activity as well.
I doubt even the Space Wolves actually go through with it, even if they think about it. As noted, steroids-- which Marines take a lot of during their formative stages, as well as plenty of other hormones, artificial and otherwise-- stunt that part of one's physiology.
edit: And you know, it amuses me that we're talking about penises in a thread entitled "What do Space Marines Eat?".
ok, that make me laugh far more that it should have. Curse my child-like sense of humour.
but as for the original question, i agree that Space marines probably eat whatever doesn't run away fast enough supplemented with chemicals to help them maintain all their genetic enhancements.
Which makes even less sense than their love for beer, since they're effectivly neutered.
Space Wolves aren't neutered. Lukas the Trickster's codex entry has some details about his exploits(12 beds-1 night, Legend among the Women of Fenris)
Most marines simply have lost the urge somewhere along the creative process, but it doesn't mean it can't happen.
I refuse to accept such fluff as canon. It's almost rediculous as an angel that comes to save red marines who are otherwise doomed for the---OHWAITAMINUTE
I don't think sex or reproduction were factor heavily into the WARGAME we call Warhammer.. That being said biology is biology.
However SMs would need to reason to procreate naturally as that is not how you get little SMs, so it is entirely plausible that the urge was fine tuned out or is simply removed on purpose.
Gene manipulation might render them sterile OR they would only produce normal humans.
now there would be logic behind this.
a Marines offspring would be likely candidates to become space marines OR would at least produce candidates.
Actually, the marine practice of removing the best specimens from the genepool of a planet would actually reduce the chance of more being produced as they would never add their genes to the pool.
Marines, or at least initiates, reproducing would increase the avaliability of Marine recruits in the future.
This could come in handy if say your chapter just took heavy losses and needs more then the normal amount of Initiates. Since 95 out of 100 initiates either doesn't survive or is rendered unsuitable and becomes a serf or something the option to increse the number of avaliable starting stock would prove invaluable in a crisis.
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Gene manipulation might render them sterile OR they would only produce normal humans.
now there would be logic behind this.
a Marines offspring would be likely candidates to become space marines OR would at least produce candidates.
Actually, the marine practice of removing the best specimens from the genepool of a planet would actually reduce the chance of more being produced as they would never add their genes to the pool.
Marines, or at least initiates, reproducing would increase the avaliability of Marine recruits in the future.
This could come in handy if say your chapter just took heavy losses and needs more then the normal amount of Initiates. Since 95 out of 100 initiates either doesn't survive or is rendered unsuitable and becomes a serf or something the option to increse the number of avaliable starting stock would prove invaluable in a crisis.
most chapters take initiates between the ages of 12-15. they will be able to recieve the Black Carapace at approximatly 17-18 years of age.
a 12 year old Male human able to reproduce is not uncommon. those that aren't are likely unsuitable for selection in the first place.
the subject would certaintly be able to reproduce very soon.
Initiates are chosen during Puberty because the body is undergoing a massive hormonal and physical transformation and is most receptive to the implants. the body is more likely to not notice a couple of dozen extra organs and accept them as normal.
i don't think for one second that most marine chapters would do this, but that it COULD happen.
Historically it is only in the last 50 years or so where a pregnant 16 year old girl was seen as "bad". In the Last 100 years our concepts on age to get married and age to have kids has changed quite a bit.
I thought it was 10-15. Regardless... it could theoretically happen, however keep in mind that such drugs have an even larger effect on children than they do on adults, and the children are eating MUCH more than the adults are.
These include such negative effects as reduced sexual function and infertility.
Melissia wrote:I thought it was 10-15. Regardless... it could theoretically happen, however keep in mind that such drugs have an even larger effect on children than they do on adults, and the children are eating MUCH more than the adults are.
These include such negative effects as reduced sexual function and infertility.
Girls are capable of conceiving as early as 9-12, boys are capable of impregnating on the same timeline. Remember your science when you guys get into these hypothetical talks, current biology before the stims and riods would allow candidates to make a few babies given the right circumstance.
Slow down, you do not want to get a high schooler started on this...
On that note, I love Spongebob. And the Salty Spittoon is filled with Space Marines. Remember, no wienies allowed, and with the kind of steroids going into a marine, well, you know.
Slow down, you do not want to get a high schooler started on this...
On that note, I love Spongebob. And the Salty Spittoon is filled with Space Marines. Remember, no wienies allowed, and with the kind of steroids going into a marine, well, you know.
Melissia wrote:I thought it was 10-15. Regardless... it could theoretically happen, however keep in mind that such drugs have an even larger effect on children than they do on adults, and the children are eating MUCH more than the adults are.
These include such negative effects as reduced sexual function and infertility.
Girls are capable of conceiving as early as 9-12, boys are capable of impregnating on the same timeline. Remember your science when you guys get into these hypothetical talks, current biology before the stims and riods would allow candidates to make a few babies given the right circumstance.
Keep in mind, modern nutrition has a lot do with that. While it's especially true in females, it affects males to certain degree as well. Given the hardship the average person in the imperium goes through (nevermind the places they draw SM candidates come from) fertility rates probably aren't terribly high.
Melissia wrote:I thought it was 10-15. Regardless... it could theoretically happen, however keep in mind that such drugs have an even larger effect on children than they do on adults, and the children are eating MUCH more than the adults are.
These include such negative effects as reduced sexual function and infertility.
Girls are capable of conceiving as early as 9-12, boys are capable of impregnating on the same timeline. Remember your science when you guys get into these hypothetical talks, current biology before the stims and riods would allow candidates to make a few babies given the right circumstance.
Keep in mind, modern nutrition has a lot do with that. While it's especially true in females, it affects males to certain degree as well. Given the hardship the average person in the imperium goes through (nevermind the places they draw SM candidates come from) fertility rates probably aren't terribly high.
actually the age of reproduction is lower in areas with a harder life.
you will die young so you need to reproduce at an earlier age.
modern nutrition doesn't alter the fact you can reproduce. it simply makes it more likely you will be able to survive having a baby and that the child will survive.
a dweller on a death world might actually have a better diet hunting and gathering then a Hive Dweller who eats reconstituted waste byproducts. and only those who are strong enough would survive past the age of 7-10 anyway.
Not entirely. Current biological thinking seems to suggest that our somewhat sedentary lifestyle in modern times causes our bodies to sexually mature sooner than normal, along with the various chemicals in our diet due to hormones in beef and other livestock.
okay, this should probably be merged with the other current topic about SM reproduction.
Melissia wrote:And you know, it amuses me that we're talking about penises in a thread entitled "What do Space Marines Eat?".
What else do you think that marines do on those long, hard voyages through the warp?
Plus, testosterone makes people aggressive. I'm under the impression that they probably keep most marines juiced on the stuff most of the time, at least to keep their muscle mass up. It takes all the special brainwashing and praying et. al. just to allow them to function relatively normally, but there's no way they could be so heightened chemically while also being castrated chemically.
Grey Templar wrote:
actually the age of reproduction is lower in areas with a harder life.
The reason people in the western world reproduce later is cultural, not biological.
you will die young so you need to reproduce at an earlier age.
The body is unaware of this. If it's unable to facilitate reproduction, or properly develop the reproductive organs in the first place no threat of a looming young death is going to change that.
modern nutrition doesn't alter the fact you can reproduce. it simply makes it more likely you will be able to survive having a baby and that the child will survive.
Yes it does. This is extremely basic. There are more than a couple of nutritional deficiencies that in either sex can severely hinder or even just halt reproductive function. Hell, a woman who is unable (or unwilling) to maintain a certain level of body fat will have her reproductive systems shut down an entirely (I forget the exact % of the top of my head.). It's why Amenorrhoea is one of the requirements for diagnosis of Anorexia.
a dweller on a death world might actually have a better diet hunting and gathering then a Hive Dweller who eats reconstituted waste byproducts. and only those who are strong enough would survive past the age of 7-10 anyway.
Well this is an area of speculation. Sure H&Gs tend to have pretty good nutrition and have to put in relatively little work for it at that. However, we're talking about "Death Planets" here so I'm not sure it works out exactly the same. Nutritional standards on the lower levels of the hives are yeah, probably pretty poor.
Considering that the Rain Forests of South American and the Deserts of Africa are basically "Death Worlds" where almost anything can and will kill you I am sure we can assume that those can be used as a constant for the idea of future H&Gs on a different world.
i belive the definition of a "Death World" is simply a world that has some sort of enviromental/ecological factor that makes the survival rate extremly low. like say in the 50% area.
Now the nutrition level of a Death Worlds inhabitants would depend on the actual climate. a Desert world will likely rely on food imports, but a Jungle world might not.
therefore if your Death World is a planet that has loads of Life then your nutrition probably is pretty good. it's just that getting that food might kill you.
On a side note: Pandora from the movie Avatar would be considered a "Death World"? Toxic atmosphere, hostile Flora and Fauna. Food is not hard to find and that which isn't toxic to humans would be nutritious.
grav, I see where you are going on the 'Earth rainforests and deserts are death worlds' line of thought. However, I kind of always thought a death world was a bit more extreme that that. Like, giant-monsters-that-defy-explanation extreme, or rains-of-flaming-lizards extreme.
Jimsolo wrote:grav, I see where you are going on the 'Earth rainforests and deserts are death worlds' line of thought. However, I kind of always thought a death world was a bit more extreme that that. Like, giant-monsters-that-defy-explanation extreme, or rains-of-flaming-lizards extreme.
Also constant earthquakes, trees that shoot lightning, explosive snow, and boiling oceans. I wouldn't be surprised if the few things that are actually reasonable to hunt, because they can't hurl 18" long quills at you from 200 meters away are actually poisonous.
There are only two things that are actually safe to eat. One of these things is a species Turkey that always has dry meat. The second is a variety of cranberry that has to be cooked until it's a jiggly, bland-tasting cylindrical mass. It'd be like the a bad thanksgiving, all day every, day for your whole miserable life.
ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:Black Templars are on crusade so often that they probably have to eat on the go, and rarely have the luxury of sitting around at tables.
So you're saying they subsist on drive-thru fast food?
I read it somewhere in the Lexicanum that their power armour can convert their bodily waste into a nutrient paste they can eat in the field if out of rations.
Yes, that is what happens if they run out of Nutrient packs.
this is a practical application of Nanotechnology. there are actual plans to make Diving suits for exploring the Ocean floor that will be able to refine bodly waste at the microscopic level as well as allow for the wearer to breath the ocean water(basically an artificial Gill mechanism)
this would allow for the wearer to remain underwater indefinitly(weather he would want to is another matter)
Marines, while perfectly capable of subsisting on practically anything, will still prefer real food. Wolves in particular hate the nutrient packs and much prefer a haunch of meat and a barrel of beer.
Wyvern wrote:I read it somewhere in the Lexicanum that their power armour can convert their bodily waste into a nutrient paste they can eat in the field if out of rations.
.)
Thanks for the save there!
