All great right and honourable titles but who's wields the most power in The Imperium of Man?

None, that's why they're an oligarchy and not a monarchy.

I voted for the Mechanicum. Having a disagreement with us? Well you don't get any bullets this week HA!

Oops forgot the Astronomican. In there now.


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DarknessEternal wrote:None, that's why they're an oligarchy and not a monarchy.

They are far from equal. That's like saying that all UN members are equal and there's no politics involved. For example the last two on the list aren't even permanent members. They need to be sponsored like the non-permenant members of the UN security council. There were other rotating possibilities but I chose those two because they seem the most powerful of the sloppy seconds. Surprisingly, Lord Commander Militant is not a permanent seat. I mean c'mon he's commander off every single gurdmen in the biggest army in the galaxy! He seemed a better choice than the ones I left out like "Head SoB" and "A Random Space Marine."

The Fabricator General by far. He represents the Adeptus Mechanicus, who is still technically a separate entity from the imperium (and that is no small deed), and they only get to keep this sovereignty because they hold a monopoly on the Imperium's tech. If they get pissed off everyone will have to go back to catching fish with a stick and living in straw huts or ruins.

I completely agree. He may be the only one the others fear. Sure Inquisition is scary but even they can't bring their powers to bear against large organizations like the others represent.

Also, has his own pesonal army of Titans and Skitaari - pretty badass.

I was gonna vote for the Fabricator General but then i thought they wouldn't be able to move without the Astronomican or the Navigators and also the Ecclesiarch could just declare holy wars against people.
The Adeptus Custodes could say the Emperor told him that he should be in charge.
The Lord militant... well that's obvious.
To be honest the person with the least power is the head policeman guy (Chief Arbite) and even then he has a lot of power.

Yes, to play devil's advocate The Navigators are insanely powerful. Nothing moves without them. They are one of the organizations that has ancient pacts with everyone much like the mechanicum. No one dares to offend them in any way.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes, to play devil's advocate The Navigators are insanely powerful. Nothing moves without them. They are one of the organizations that has ancient pacts with everyone much like the mechanicum. No one dares to offend them in any way.

I never understood that. They are powerful and they have the Imperium beat but if it wanted to the Imperium could just issue th order to kill every single Navigator that didn't comply with it's new scheme of being a servant and not a master etc. Funny power dynamic.

I first thought the mechanicum because they can declare an embargo, but then I thought the master of the astronomicon can say the emeperor said so.

Mechanicus had FTL travel before the Emperor's resurgence, and only revere the Emperor as an aspect of the Machine God as per their agreement with the Imperium. If they wanted to they could probably break off from the imperium altogether without much consequence (relatively) on their end. The Imperium, however, would be utterly screwed if the Mechanicus did that. They would lack the priests to maintain their tech and lack the ability to produce replacements. It would crumble within just a few centuries (which isnt long on the galactic chart).

The Fabricator General has, among other things, book keeping, an army, a navy, a religion, a bunch of psykers, assasins, the Emperor's personal bodyguards, and every single STC ever made EVER (that he never bothers to use... JERK) is immortal and controlls the second most powerfull faction in 40K, on top having a controlling intrest in the 1st... Yeah, tottaly him.

But Constantin Valdor could hijack the entire council when he really needs it, but he cant do that indefinately.

If we count "wields the most power in the IOM" meaning who has most sway on the council, it might just be a tie between the Administratum and the Machanum, with the Ministorium coming in close third. The administatum basically runs the council and has a lot to say, but the mechanum and Ministorium (to a lesser extent the LCM and navigators/astropaths, not that the psykers ever really speak out) can just say, "we wont support this" and s*** wont get done. Having half the council have de facto veto powers makes getting anything done really hard. (yay UN security council!)

Over all, the Fab-Gen is pretty strong on the council, AND is the head of the cult of making everything that makes the sun rise in the morning work and the army of doom, and his personal navy. Oh, and he is in charge of the Emperor's survival. Go him.

I voted the Fabricator General because the AdMech create pretty much everything for the Imperium from weapons of war to sheets of tin for construction (source: Eye of terror by Barrgington J. Baley). But thats not the only thing that makes them powerful...

Whilst reading the Eisenhorn trilogy. In Malleus, Esienhorn and key members of his staff are talking about a Warmaster and who could become a high lord of terra as a successor to a recently dead lord. They speak of a possible candidate, Lord Commander Cosimo, but this qoute proves that the AdMech have plenty of power.

His House is far too unpopular with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and without their consent, however tacit, no one ever makes it to high lord rank

Without their support your hopes of becoming one of the high lords is doomed! This IMO means they are the most powerful of the High lords, piss them off and your not getting anything.

I suppose the "master of the astronomican" is NOT the emperor
Without this astro guy, your parts don't go anywhere, your marines go undeployed. don't piss this guy off!

purplefood wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes, to play devil's advocate The Navigators are insanely powerful. Nothing moves without them. They are one of the organizations that has ancient pacts with everyone much like the mechanicum. No one dares to offend them in any way.

I never understood that. They are powerful and they have the Imperium beat but if it wanted to the Imperium could just issue th order to kill every single Navigator that didn't comply with it's new scheme of being a servant and not a master etc. Funny power dynamic.

One thing you never want to do is kill your navigator unless you really, really like wre you ar right now.


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Mukkin'About wrote:I suppose the "master of the astronomican" is NOT the emperor
Without this astro guy, your parts don't go anywhere, your marines go undeployed. don't piss this guy off!

No, The Emperor is The Emperor the high lords are the ones who misinterpret his will for him. Of course the Astronomicon is extremely important but I'm not sure what The master of the Astronomican does. Probably coordinates with Inquisition about getting psykers.

Navigators or master of the astronomicon. The other lords need (except for rare occasions) to take action to affect anything which will require the help of another high lord.

The navigators and the lord of astronomicon can just sit back for a while and let the the imperium fall apart to show how important they are.

All the other lords areas become useless if you can't transport people and goods.

The Grand Master of the Assinorium has the ability to take ANYONE out, and according to the HH books also holds another, public title as the head of another, public institution. So I'd say the Assasin Lord.

What I found shocking is that the head of the Imperial Navy has apparently never been a high lord. Not sure what the title would be Lord Admiral of The Imperial Navy or something like that. The importance of his branch and the complexity of his job cannot be denied so someone else must be vetoing him. Fabricator-General perhaps? I think AdMech have their own Navy too.

Assinorium because he can basically kill anyone he wants?

I'm going to have to side with KamikazeCanuck on this one. The Adeptus Mechanicus wields by far the most power in the Imperium, Between their explorator fleets, the collegia titanica, and the skitarii legions, they've got all the bases covered, as aforementioned they pull the plug and the Imperium dies. Granted one cannot survive without the other, but in terms of power the Mechanicus definitely holds the high hand.

The high lord of Assassinorum can't take anyone out.

The assassin temples can't target any important people without the consent of at least 3 (IIRC) high lords. This was put into place because one of the previous lords of the assassinorum just killed everyone who disagreed with him.

Without the navigators or the astronomicon those admech aren't going anywhere. They may have lots of resources but they are unabable to use them. Their armies will be out manouvered and they will be unable to supply the skitari the forge worlds can only prodcue so much ammo before they run out of materials. They would all be stuck on forge worlds which are completely nable to sustain life without outside help, with all those factories there is no room to produce the food which used to be brought in. All their powerful weapons (titans, Superheavies, experimental weapons) will be stuck in one place.

Brother Heinrich wrote:I'm going to have to side with KamikazeCanuck on this one. The Adeptus Mechanicus wields by far the most power in the Imperium, Between their explorator fleets, the collegia titanica, and the skitarii legions, they've got all the bases covered, as aforementioned they pull the plug and the Imperium dies. Granted one cannot survive without the other, but in terms of power the Mechanicus definitely holds the high hand.

Explorator Fleets are their own entity with a rotating seat by the title The Speaker for the Chartist Captains. They are very important too often acting as The Imperium's supply lines and resource finders. I left them off convinced that they weren't that powerful...

more info here:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

I am sure he can find ways around that. I bet some would be loyal to him only and obey his orders without question.

Oh he can assassinate anyone he wants the question is what will the political fallout be?

CHUCK NORRIS

ugh, anyways I guess I should have figure it would be an AdMecha runaway. They ranaway with this http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/301764.page too. They are quite popular but for arguments sake I'll say the only one that the fluff may actually directly say is the most powerful is the Administratum.
They actually run the Imperium and apparently are the largest of all the branchs. Yes, their are actually more bureaucrats and file clerk than Imperial Guardsmen! sigh, this is why you don't work Imperium.

I suppose that the AdMech could just get everyone with robot limbs to just throttle themselves...
Although the Navigators and the Master of the Astronomican could just stop all ships...

The Power struggle seems to be with the Ad Mechanic and the Astronomican. However the Astronomican cant simply just *stop* space Travel, that will cripple them along with anyone they're trying to target. In addition, the Ad Mechanic can travel into space independantly of the Astronomican, they have the ships and were traveling long before the Emperor showed up. It might be harder but they can do it. They also have their own standing forces, as everyone has said already, as well as holding the monopoly on the Imperium's tech. If they wanted to cut off the IoM from technology cold turkey they could, without reprocussions to themselves. That is perhaps why they beat the Astronomican in power, simply because they can do all of that with little to no detriment to themselves, whereas any other High Lord of terra would either face political backlash or suffer actual consequences.

The thing about the imperium is the balance of power, everyone relies on everyone else to function. However, out of all those I'd say the ones with the most clout are The Fabricator general, the Mastaers of the Astronomican and Administratum and the Lord Commander Millitant.

The Administratum runs the imperium, without him it would just be a lose collection of planets, he enforces tithes and has the power to order the invasion of a planet if they're behind on their tithes, but even he relies on others.

The guard is the one everyone wants on their side, because no one else has the power to stop every enemy of man at the same time.

The astronomican and the Ad-Mech have already been covered.

However, the others lords all have critical powers in the imperium. Especially the inquisition.

Gonna have to say the man who represents the inquisition in the high lords.He seems to be the most dangerous.Second behind him id say admech.

No respect for The Ecclesiarch? He's the real Space-Pope - but back when the Real-Pope was the most powerful man on the planet and then x10. All must follow his religon or be declared Heretic. Titanicus was great because it showed that even the right thinking Mechanicum folk know they must show deference to the Imperial Cult.



Also, right or wrong, The Ecclesiarch is the only Lord who can say he knows what The Emperor's will actually (is due to his holiness) and there's nothing the others can say.

I know nothing of the high lords of terra believe it or not. And I am a 40k expert I MUST LEARN!
Who are they!?!?!??!?
I know the Custode one but the others are new to me.

Asherian Command wrote:I know nothing of the high lords of terra believe it or not. And I am a 40k expert I MUST LEARN!
Who are they!?!?!??!?
I know the Custode one but the others are new to me.

They are the 12 most powerful men in the Galaxy! Get to know your Terran council member here: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

I know that part everyone knows that part but what the hell are they!

What do you mean? They're the ruling goverment of The Imperium.....um they're humans...What do you mean what are they?

What are their names? That is who are they?

Unknown. Not important either - their position is. The Ecclesiarch is like The Pope. Different men come and go but the office of the papacy is what's important. The only person who may have remained the same for the last 10,000 years is The Fabricator-General. Mechanicum folk live a long time.

How are their names not important?!??!?!??!? THE NAME IS EVERYTHING! (jk)
Anyway what do they do exactly as a job. I really don't know much about them...

The only one who can get anything done without having to ask the council of Veto is the Fabricator General. Maybe the Eccliesiarch can send in the SOBs on their... uh... Holy Ships... or the Inquisition can just send a fast ship before the word of the high lords reaches wherever they are going to "Stop this man, he is an enemy of the state." but really, all every other non-Custodes High Lord does is -be- a High Lord. The Fabricator is too busy running the admech, weilding half of the imperiums might, and actually votes absentee on important issues like Crusades, new SM foundings, or what to do about hive fleet leviathan. He is TO COOL and TOO POWERFULL to be bothered being THE MOST POWERFULL MAN IN THE IMPERIUM! He has to share THAT title with 12 others, whereas he can keep sole primacy in his own little empire. Being #1 of #2 is better than being 1/12 of #1. He just happens to be both.

EDIT: arguing on the internet again... FOR SHAME!

Can't agree with that. You're telling me Lord Commander Militant doesn't have a lot on his plate? He's got 2 trillion troops to command! Don't even get me started on the Master of the Administratum.
They are all very busy people except for possibly The Master of The Astronomicon and the Captain-General (weird rank) of the Custodes. Not sure what they do.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Can't agree with that. You're telling me Lord Commander Militant doesn't have a lot on his plate? He's got 2 trillion troops to command! Don't even get me started on the Master of the Administratum.
They are all very busy people except for possibly The Master of The Astronomicon and the Captain-General (weird rank) of the Custodes. Not sure what they do.

I'm still of the mind that the master of the administratum has the most power, in effect he runs the imperium, its day to day working, its economy, resource management, the tithe system etc...

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Also, right or wrong, The Ecclesiarch is the only Lord who can say he knows what The Emperor's will actually (is due to his holiness) and there's nothing the others can say.

The Captain-General of the Custodes says "what?".

EmilCrane wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Can't agree with that. You're telling me Lord Commander Militant doesn't have a lot on his plate? He's got 2 trillion troops to command! Don't even get me started on the Master of the Administratum.
They are all very busy people except for possibly The Master of The Astronomicon and the Captain-General (weird rank) of the Custodes. Not sure what they do.

I'm still of the mind that the master of the administratum has the most power, in effect he runs the imperium, its day to day working, its economy, resource management, the tithe system etc...

The pencil pushers are trying to rally in the poll!


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AlmightyWalrus wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Also, right or wrong, The Ecclesiarch is the only Lord who can say he knows what The Emperor's will actually (is due to his holiness) and there's nothing the others can say.

The Captain-General of the Custodes says "what?".

The Captain-General has to much honour to say "The Emprah told me". The Ecclesiarch I'm not so sure.

The Captain-General is the representative of the Astrates if I recall correctly.

You recall incorrectly. He represents the Custodes. Astartes almost never have a representative.

The Marines are independent of the High Lords, works both ways, they aren't beholden to them but they also don't get a say.

Yes, but I have seen some sources that say occasionally there may have been an Astartes representative. Seems pointless though because even an Astartes high lord wouldn't represent all Space Marines just his own chapter or a task force. At least an Ultramarine could represent Ultramar.

The Captain-General is a bit of a Dark Horse. He and he alone decides who has an audience with The Emperor. Definately has had influence on the course of history of the Imperium. Most notably, The Age of Apostasy would have turned out a lot differently.

Yep. I remember he showed the brides of the emperor the hersey within their leader. And their leader killed him.

What I meant wasn't that he'd lie and say that the Emperor told him something he didn't, he would probably be present whenever anyone got an audience with the Emperor and as such be aware of what the Emperor did and didn't say to the Ecclesiarch. Unless the Ecclesiarch decided to play the "He said so in my head!" card, but I'd imagine that the Custodes actually have some way of communicating with the Big E themselves...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Unless the Ecclesiarch decided to play the "He said so in my head!" card, but I'd imagine that the Custodes actually have some way of communicating with the Big E themselves...

That's pretty much what I meant but more like "He came to me in my prayers". Other Lords may roll their eyes in private but there really is nothing they can do about it. It's easy to argue that The Church is the most powerful entity in The Holy Imperium of Man.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Unless the Ecclesiarch decided to play the "He said so in my head!" card, but I'd imagine that the Custodes actually have some way of communicating with the Big E themselves...

That's pretty much what I meant but more like "He came to me in my prayers". Other Lords may roll their eyes in private but there really is nothing they can do about it. It's easy to argue that The Church is the most powerful entity in The Holy Imperium of Man.

Apart from the fact the last time an Ecclesiarch went nuts there was a huge civil war over it. The next time it happens no one will be as forgiving. There are also most likely safeguards to prevent him from getting too much power. He has no authority over IG or Imperial Navy for instance.

Why is there not a 'idontknow' but i like to post entery

Ledabot wrote:Why is there not a 'idontknow' but i like to post entery

Because that is needless and adds nothing to a discussion on a thread posted in discussion.

Ah, but he does. He is the spiritual leader. See The Seige of Vraks for how much power a simple cardinal can weild. The space-pope's unofficial power can be more daunting than his official authority.

What Ecclesiarch-went-nutz fiasco are you refering too?


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purplefood wrote:

Ledabot wrote:Why is there not a 'idontknow' but i like to post entery

Because that is needless and adds nothing to a discussion on a thread posted in discussion.

Yes, if you don't know read the thread and fluff and whatnot and form an opinion.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Ah, but he does. He is the spiritual leader. See The Seige of Vraks for how much power a simple cardinal can weild. The space-pope's unofficial power can be more daunting than his official authority.

What Ecclesiarch-went-nutz fiasco are you refering too?

Perhaps the Age of Apostasy? Lord Vandire because the Master of the Administratum and the Ecclesiarch and turned the imperium to civil war, i think thats a good indicator of who wields the power.

Right but i would say that's a case of The Master of the Admistratum going crazy and taking over. I always wondered what lords sided with who on that one.

To be fair, the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum is by far the most zealous and devoted (and therefore most powerful) of all the HLoT, because he could, feasibly, topple the entire Imperium if he wanted to. That's a lot of power. He even has personal access to the Emperor.

source: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grand_Master_of_Assassins

Interesting, but it is just a rumour. Didn't know Malcador was the first ever Grand Master of the Assassins! That adds some prestige to the title.

Not the toppling of the Imperium part

Scary, isn't it?

I don't know about that. Not sure if the Custodes are in charge of security for the High Lords but they are pretty safe regardless. There must be some mandate about not assassinating other Lords too otherwise why didn't they just take Vandire out?

Who said anyone had to know? He's master of all the assassin temples (including Callidus, winkwink). Killing the Emperor would probably have to be a suicide run, I do admit. But I'm at least fairly sure it wouldn't be that difficult for the man in charge of killing to kill.

Whoa! I was just talking about killing other high lords. Killing The Emperor!? You don't want to mess with the Custodes. They are demi-primarchs with the power of invisibilty. Assassins are nad ass bu they ain't Custodes bad-ass.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Whoa! I was just talking about killing other high lords. Killing The Emperor!? You don't want to mess with the Custodes. They are demi-primarchs with the power of invisibilty. Assassins are nad ass bu they ain't Custodes bad-ass.

Custodes can't use invisibility, you're thinking of the invisibles from Horus Rising, pseudo custodes

KamikazeCanuck wrote: ...with the power of invisibilty.

I've never heard that before... that's interesting. Source?

And I'm not saying it would be done, or that anyone would want to do it. I'm saying it could possibly be done at great cost.
But that's OT I guess. Point is, Grand Master could feasibly kill one, some or all of the High Lords and replace them with his own operatives.

What?! are you guys serious. Yes, Custodes has invisibilty cloaks. Read tales of heresy.

@Emilcrane
If you recall Horus Rising was basically a pseudo-heresy with a pseudo-Emperor and pseudo-marines. The invisibles were pseudo-Custodes.

Source?

Blood Games. Excellent short story in Tales of Heresy. Stop what your doing right now and read it. Pretty sure its the only Custodes story on the block too.


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anon/rassilon wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote: ...with the power of invisibilty.

I've never heard that before... that's interesting. Source?

And I'm not saying it would be done, or that anyone would want to do it. I'm saying it could possibly be done at great cost.
But that's OT I guess. Point is, Grand Master could feasibly kill one, some or all of the High Lords and replace them with his own operatives.

he could......I guess. I'm sure each Lord's friends/staff/etc. would notice that they're not the same person after a while and/or immediately.

The custodes have a pretty wide range of equipment - 'concealment cloaks' are one of them, and are used in the story (I thought) to mask ones shape and size, and alter perceptions of you - I can remember if they extended to full invisibility, but they certainly might have.

Per the Custodes, there the only high lord that I can think of which the Astartes might pay any particular amount of heed to: which given the Astartes chapters independence of of the Imperium at large (they probably don't manufacture their own ships - but they certainly make their own equipment and ammunition. Or at least some do.)

perhaps giving them an indirect amount of power far greater the even being the Emperors guardians would allow. If they really have any exceptional amount of influence over the Astartes...

Carlovonsexron wrote:The custodes have a pretty wide range of equipment - 'concealment cloaks' are one of them, and are used in the story (I thought) to mask ones shape and size, and alter perceptions of you - I can remember if they extended to full invisibility, but they certainly might have.

Per the Custodes, there the only high lord that I can think of which the Astartes might pay any particular amount of heed to: which given the Astartes chapters independence of of the Imperium at large (they probably don't manufacture their own ships - but they certainly make their own equipment and ammunition. Or at least some do.)

perhaps giving them an indirect amount of power far greater the even being the Emperors guardians would allow. If they really have any exceptional amount of influence over the Astartes...

The cloak that made them appear more human was in the story but so was the full invisibilty ones. They called them falsehoods. The former is a new tech revealed in that story. Full invisibilty has been part of the Custodes repetoire long before Blood Games though.

I'm don't think Astartes think too much of Custodes in general. As far as they're concerned they're the ones out in the galaxy doing the fighting and dieing. Custodes have had one battle in the last 10,000 years. Apparently there has been the occasional Astartes high lord. An Imperial Fist I suspect.

Definitely the Fabricator general, the people at the astronomincon cant just shut it off, else everyone including them is screwed.

As for navigators? Pretty sure its not too hard to kidnap those guys and put a gun to their head ....

The Master of the Administratum is still more powerful than the head of the Ecclesiarchy. It was the former that allowed the latter to flourish as the official religion of the state. In addition, Vandire didnt start his reign of terror until he became both the Ecclesiarch and the Master of the Administratum, and in the end the only lord who wasnt disbanded and actually lead a counter attack was the Fabricator General. Just goes to show that the AdMech holds alot of power even when separated from the imperium's office structure.

kill dem stunties wrote:Definitely the Fabricator general, the people at the astronomincon cant just shut it off, else everyone including them is screwed.

As for navigators? Pretty sure its not too hard to kidnap those guys and put a gun to their head ....

I don't think so. They have pacts that provide bodyguards from many powerful organizations. Most famous of which may be the Space Wolves. Basically any faction that has ever travelled through the Warp owes them something.

I voted the navigators, cos without them long warp travel is impossible and the IoM would fall, even if mars split all ties with terra, they could still hold a rather large empire of mars all across the galaxy, as long as the navigators.

Within the council i would say that the high lords of terra, no matter how much power they wield, would probably fear the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum the most. As if he wanted you dead, there wouldn't be an army in the IoM that could protect you.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The Master of the Administratum is still more powerful than the head of the Ecclesiarchy. It was the former that allowed the latter to flourish as the official religion of the state. In addition, Vandire didnt start his reign of terror until he became both the Ecclesiarch and the Master of the Administratum, and in the end the only lord who wasnt disbanded and actually lead a counter attack was the Fabricator General. Just goes to show that the AdMech holds alot of power even when separated from the imperium's office structure.

I wouldn't say The Master of the Administratum let the Ecclesiarchy flourish. The Lectitio Divinitatus became the most powerful movement in The Imperium post-heresy. They really could not stop it. In a way the Ecclesiarch forced himself onto the Council in a time of desperation.
Guilliman where were on this one!?


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btw, are you sure about that Fabricator-General counter-attack? I thought the counter-attack was mostly IG, SM headed by Thor.

After the dissolution of the High Lords of Terra by Vandire, the Fabricator General called his tech guards from mars to Terra and was joined by various SM chapters and the IG loyal to the Confederation of Light, making the Fabricator General the sole High Lord to actually participate in the battle against Vandire.

Ya, I lexicanumed it. Fitting as The Fabricator-General doesn't follow the ecclesiarchal religon and ironic because he helped install the new Ecclesiarch: Sebastian Thor.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:Definitely the Fabricator general, the people at the astronomincon cant just shut it off, else everyone including them is screwed.

As for navigators? Pretty sure its not too hard to kidnap those guys and put a gun to their head ....

I don't think so. They have pacts that provide bodyguards from many powerful organizations. Most famous of which may be the Space Wolves. Basically any faction that has ever travelled through the Warp owes them something.

Thats hilarious ... bodyguards cant protect you p[erfectly, especially when the most powerful organization of humanity wants you.

Theres countless navigators currently on forgeworlds, admech ships etc, they have them in their hands already.

ALso if it came down to it they could just break tradition and start cloning navigators they already have, there ya go unlimited supply.

Admech > all other factions of the high lords by far.

I think it was actually stated somewhere that if the AdMech defected completely from the imperium, the whole IoM would be screwed overnight. If I can find a source I'll cite it.

kill dem stunties wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:Definitely the Fabricator general, the people at the astronomincon cant just shut it off, else everyone including them is screwed.

As for navigators? Pretty sure its not too hard to kidnap those guys and put a gun to their head ....

I don't think so. They have pacts that provide bodyguards from many powerful organizations. Most famous of which may be the Space Wolves. Basically any faction that has ever travelled through the Warp owes them something.

Thats hilarious ... bodyguards cant protect you p[erfectly, especially when the most powerful organization of humanity wants you.

Theres countless navigators currently on forgeworlds, admech ships etc, they have them in their hands already.

ALso if it came down to it they could just break tradition and start cloning navigators they already have, there ya go unlimited supply.

Admech > all other factions of the high lords by far.

I think if that worked they would have done that a long time ago.


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Anyways, There's no doubt that the AdMecha is poweful and my avatar will give you a clue as to who I voted for but they themselves cannot be independant. The one thing they don't have is unlimited Manpower. The Galaxy is a dangerous place and they need the Imperial Guard as much as The Imperial Guard needs them.


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Anyways, where's the love for the The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica? Not one vote!? All intersteller communication is done by Astropaths. They hold together The Imperium as much as The Astronomicon and Navigators probably more so.

The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum.

He can kill everyone else....

Congratulations Coa...
Threadromancy is not vool.

I just noticed....

Something I've learned since then: You know how Inquisitors are scary and badass and Assassins are scary and badass? Well there's Assassin-Inquisitors! http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_Sicarius
They are scary and badass x2.

Holy s**t...
They look scary...

The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum could just kill anybody he wanted

He did...
Then he got shot in the face and his entire organisation re-structured with an entire Ordo of Inquisitors dedicated to watching them...

Oh, well that sucks. Why do Inquisitors always have to get involved?

Kravox wrote:The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum could just kill anybody he wanted

An Assassination requires a 2/3rds majority vote. Basically, don't piss off you fellow Lords!

It's kinda their thing...

The Assassinorium is pretty stable now. They don't just go around knocking off High Lords whenever they feel like it. That's what the Assassin-Inquisitors are for: Inquisiting (?) the Assassins.

I personally say the Inquisitor.
Anything else would be heresy! *Paranoid shifty-eyes*

Master of the Astronomicon.
Let's see you assassinate, transport machines, capture heretics, command the armies, command the fleets, catch criminals, navigate, or preach
without your fancy space lighthouse.

Kasrkai wrote:Master of the Astronomicon.
Let's see you assassinate, transport machines, capture heretics, command the armies, command the fleets, catch criminals, navigate, or preach
without your fancy space lighthouse.

Very true!

Since the Administratum has made past bids for ruling the entire IoM, they've got to rank way way up there.

The Mechanicum supplies or has a hand in supplying eveything mechanical to the IoM, they have a private army that may rival the Guard and the most powerful warmachines that may be deployed. In fact, I think they were looked at as an allied empire with their own set of rules and regulations. So I would go for the fabricator general, much as I despise the Mechanicum.

I disagree about the Fabricator General. Saying he wields the most power in the Imperium is like saying the maintenance guy wields the most power in a corporate building. Yeah he is essential to keep things running, but no more than any of the others.

The big gun on the counsel is the Master of the Administratum, this is usually confirmed in the fluff. He manages the running of the imperium at every level, and controls and administrates all the taxes and resources and how they are divided and used.

The second most powerful is usually the The Ecclesiarch because he can exercise a lot of control through religious dogma, and claiming his will is the divine will of the Emperor.

Highest Lord of Terra is the one on the chair with the longest legs.

I am thinking leader of the Custodes, just because he commands the most powerful force on terra and if he so chose he could probably kill the other lords if they really irked him

Master of the Administratum


1. Because the Codex Imperialis says so.

2. Because previous Master of the Administratum Goge Vandir ran a successful coup and became Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum; thus Master of the Administrorum > Ecclesiarch.

3. Because the Fabricator General protested in vain and could do nothing about it; thus Master of the Administrorum > Adeptus Mechanics.

4. Because all the others were abolished or relieved of their position, at least temporarily; thus Master of the Administrorum > the rest of the High Lords.



I also think it is futile to think the Fabricator-General perfectly controls all the Adeptus Mechanicus/Technology, or the Inqusitorial Representative perfectly controls all of the Inquisition, etc.. . Administrative power doesn't work that way. Those guys came to be where they are owing alot of favours. And there are more, also very senior people in their own organisation who hold power, alliences and favours-owned. If, say, the current Fabricator-General shows pretension to withdraw "technology" from the Imperium, I would asssume that more likely than not you'd quickly see a new, ambitious Fabricator-General joing the High Lords as a successor before long.

My vote is for the head of the Administratum.

Only they have enough man-power for processing all that information to have half a clue about what is going on in the Imperium.

No one else really knows whats going on beyond their star cluster!

Navigators or Fabricator General.

The master of assassins or the Inquisitor, simply because the inquisiton can effectively veto the high lords by going against them
the master of assassins has had the entire HLOT killed before, so it can happen again

The Head of the Administratum as he could just paperwork your ass.

Pilau Rice wrote:The Head of the Administratum as he could just paperwork your ass.

but he does that anyway. After a while you just get numb to the paperworking of the ass.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:The Head of the Administratum as he could just paperwork your ass.

but he does that anyway. After a while you just get numb to the paperworking of the ass.

I mean in the way of

"Oh so you don't like me do you? Well, please fill out a next of kin form for each Guardsman in the Imperial Guard stationed in Ultima Segmentum. Oh and I want to see the corresponding death certificates too. Spelling mistakes will require a new form completed and cancellation of the incorrect from will require documents A1, B12 and Z.1.2b attached... I would also like a cup of Tea. Don't worry about that until you're done though"

and you must sit in the blue seat.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:and you must sit in the blue seat.

Sector 7G Row 213 cubicle 5 ... But only Blue!!! Failure to comply will result in death ... and the applicable form completed!

Now I wonder whether the High Lord representing the Administratum actually has a direct say and also manages Mechanicum affairs. Or it is up to the fabricator generals on how much to produce and for whom. (They probably agree to produce for the IoM but anybody thinks they have the power to refuse?)

The Assassin. As he could have them all killed in a heartbeat, which gives him the power to control them.

Conservationist wrote:Now I wonder whether the High Lord representing the Administratum actually has a direct say and also manages Mechanicum affairs. Or it is up to the fabricator generals on how much to produce and for whom. (They probably agree to produce for the IoM but anybody thinks they have the power to refuse?)

Mechanicum has final say on all their matters. Even the Inquisition knows to tread lightly in political disputes with them. They should be leading the poll imo.

Small, Far Away wrote:The Assassin. As he could have them all killed in a heartbeat, which gives him the power to control them.

He did kill them. Then he got shot in the face. Then his entire organisation was restructured and an entire Ordo of +1 Inquisitors were set up to watch it as well as other safeguards to stop him abusing his power.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:The master of assassins or the Inquisitor, simply because the inquisiton can effectively veto the high lords by going against them

There is no fluff to support this, the representative of the Inquistion (not master) does not have anymore power than any other High Lord.

Small, Far Away wrote:The Assassin. As he could have them all killed in a heartbeat, which gives him the power to control them.

So could the Captain-General of the Custodes. He'd likely get away with it, too, if the Custodes still followed him.


I haven't voted yet, but currently it's either the Head of the Administratum or the Fabricator-General.

purplefood wrote:Holy Terra...
They look scary...

Fixed for you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Something I've learned since then: You know how Inquisitors are scary and badass and Assassins are scary and badass? Well there's Assassin-Inquisitors! http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_Sicarius
They are scary and badass x2.

Assassin Inquisitor?

That guy makes Chuck Norris look like a kitty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Conservationist wrote:Now I wonder whether the High Lord representing the Administratum actually has a direct say and also manages Mechanicum affairs. Or it is up to the fabricator generals on how much to produce and for whom. (They probably agree to produce for the IoM but anybody thinks they have the power to refuse?)

Mechanicum has final say on all their matters. Even the Inquisition knows to tread lightly in political disputes with them. They should be leading the poll imo.

"Be polite, or change the light-balls yourself"

In terms of who wields the most power in terms of galaxy wide reach and directly affecting the largest number of people/planets? The Master of the Administratum.

In terms of who probably commands the most power to ****block something? the Fabricator General.

In terms of ultimate "because I said so" authority however? The Captain-General of the Custodes. The Custodes are the hidden power of Terra, the only ones with direct contact with the Golden Throne and the most powerful military force on the planet, and are answerable to nobody but the Emperor on the throne himself (and not in the spiritual-metaphorical way of the Ecclesiarchy or somesuch, but in the "I've actually stood before the physical presence of the God Emperor on his Throne" way), not even the Inquisition has writ to ask anything of them or act against them in any way.

If the Captain-General of the Custodes comes to the High Lords of Terra with something...who is going to say no? If the Captain-General of the Custodes says "that's a bad idea"...who is going to disagree? When the physical giant in humongous pre-heresy armor that makes a Space Marine look unimpressive, who has stood before God-Emperor himself and guards his phyical incarnation and is likely one of the few to have had any communication with him since his enthronement, stands before the High Lords and makes his voice known, what is anyone going to say or do other than, at absolutee mind-bogglingly worst, reluctantly go along with it?

Nobody, not even the Ecclesiarchy, is going to have anything to say over the Captain-General of the Custodes. If the Captain-General comes out and says he doesn't like something or decides that a certain course of action should be undertaken, who is going to say they know better? The Ecclesiarchy? The Captain-General has the whole "I probably know what the Emperor really wants" thing down a whole lot better, especially as he likely remembers the Emperor as a man, not merely a mythical god. If they disagree, the Custodes can always pull the "well, you know, wait here...I'll just go actually ask the fella" thing, or the "I'm the only guy in the room to have ever actually had a conversation with the Emperor, I think I know what I'm talking about" spiel.

Brother Coa wrote:

Purplefood wrote:
Holy s**t...
They look scary...

Fixed for you

Fixed it for you...

Vaktathi wrote:In terms of who wields the most power in terms of galaxy wide reach and directly affecting the largest number of people/planets? The Master of the Administratum.

In terms of who probably commands the most power to ****block something? the Fabricator General.

In terms of ultimate "because I said so" authority however? The Captain-General of the Custodes. The Custodes are the hidden power of Terra, the only ones with direct contact with the Golden Throne and the most powerful military force on the planet, and are answerable to nobody but the Emperor on the throne himself (and not in the spiritual-metaphorical way of the Ecclesiarchy or somesuch, but in the "I've actually stood before the physical presence of the God Emperor on his Throne" way), not even the Inquisition has writ to ask anything of them or act against them in any way.

If the Captain-General of the Custodes comes to the High Lords of Terra with something...who is going to say no? If the Captain-General of the Custodes says "that's a bad idea"...who is going to disagree? When the physical giant in humongous pre-heresy armor that makes a Space Marine look unimpressive, who has stood before God-Emperor himself and guards his phyical incarnation and is likely one of the few to have had any communication with him since his enthronement, stands before the High Lords and makes his voice known, what is anyone going to say or do other than, at absolutee mind-bogglingly worst, reluctantly go along with it?

Nobody, not even the Ecclesiarchy, is going to have anything to say over the Captain-General of the Custodes. If the Captain-General comes out and says he doesn't like something or decides that a certain course of action should be undertaken, who is going to say they know better? The Ecclesiarchy? The Captain-General has the whole "I probably know what the Emperor really wants" thing down a whole lot better, especially as he likely remembers the Emperor as a man, not merely a mythical god. If they disagree, the Custodes can always pull the "well, you know, wait here...I'll just go actually ask the fella" thing, or the "I'm the only guy in the room to have ever actually had a conversation with the Emperor, I think I know what I'm talking about" spiel.

I don't know. I don't think the Captain-General shows up at the High Lord meeting at says something like "So me and the Emperor where chatting last night yadda, yadda". The Emperor almost never converses with anyone. He himself rarely enters the throne room.
Furthermore, the guy who actually does show up to the meeting and says "The Emperor said this" is The Ecclesiarch. He is Space Pope and can claim to be hearing the Emperor due to his holy pointed hat.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:In terms of who wields the most power in terms of galaxy wide reach and directly affecting the largest number of people/planets? The Master of the Administratum.

In terms of who probably commands the most power to ****block something? the Fabricator General.

In terms of ultimate "because I said so" authority however? The Captain-General of the Custodes. The Custodes are the hidden power of Terra, the only ones with direct contact with the Golden Throne and the most powerful military force on the planet, and are answerable to nobody but the Emperor on the throne himself (and not in the spiritual-metaphorical way of the Ecclesiarchy or somesuch, but in the "I've actually stood before the physical presence of the God Emperor on his Throne" way), not even the Inquisition has writ to ask anything of them or act against them in any way.

If the Captain-General of the Custodes comes to the High Lords of Terra with something...who is going to say no? If the Captain-General of the Custodes says "that's a bad idea"...who is going to disagree? When the physical giant in humongous pre-heresy armor that makes a Space Marine look unimpressive, who has stood before God-Emperor himself and guards his phyical incarnation and is likely one of the few to have had any communication with him since his enthronement, stands before the High Lords and makes his voice known, what is anyone going to say or do other than, at absolutee mind-bogglingly worst, reluctantly go along with it?

Nobody, not even the Ecclesiarchy, is going to have anything to say over the Captain-General of the Custodes. If the Captain-General comes out and says he doesn't like something or decides that a certain course of action should be undertaken, who is going to say they know better? The Ecclesiarchy? The Captain-General has the whole "I probably know what the Emperor really wants" thing down a whole lot better, especially as he likely remembers the Emperor as a man, not merely a mythical god. If they disagree, the Custodes can always pull the "well, you know, wait here...I'll just go actually ask the fella" thing, or the "I'm the only guy in the room to have ever actually had a conversation with the Emperor, I think I know what I'm talking about" spiel.

I don't know. I don't think the Captain-General shows up at the High Lord meeting at says something like "So me and the Emperor where chatting last night yadda, yadda". The Emperor almost never converses with anyone. He himself rarely enters the throne room.
Furthermore, the guy who actually does show up to the meeting and says "The Emperor said this" is The Ecclesiarch. He is Space Pope and can claim to be hearing the Emperor due to his holy pointed hat.

I'm not saying he routinley does these things. From what it sounds like, the Captain-General stays out of things 99.9% of the time.

However, *should* he want to intervene, there'd be relatively little anyone would have to say about it. The Ecclesiarch is the head of the Cult of the Emperor, but really doesn't have much other than "I had a vision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", while the Captain-General guards the Emepror-in-Flesh and is old enough to remember him before he was enthroned and probably fought at the Emperor's side during the Great Crusade, and defended the Palace during two of the galaxies most terrible sieges. And if the Emperor is going to to *anyone*, surely it would be his custom created, unflinchingly loyal, always vigilant guardians who maintain constant vigil over his presence, in addition to being the only ones to ever actuall be near his physical body. The Custodes themselves are holy beyond question even to the Ecclesiarchy, and untouchable by the Inquisition by their own mandate, for that reason.

Vaktathi wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:In terms of who wields the most power in terms of galaxy wide reach and directly affecting the largest number of people/planets? The Master of the Administratum.

In terms of who probably commands the most power to ****block something? the Fabricator General.

In terms of ultimate "because I said so" authority however? The Captain-General of the Custodes. The Custodes are the hidden power of Terra, the only ones with direct contact with the Golden Throne and the most powerful military force on the planet, and are answerable to nobody but the Emperor on the throne himself (and not in the spiritual-metaphorical way of the Ecclesiarchy or somesuch, but in the "I've actually stood before the physical presence of the God Emperor on his Throne" way), not even the Inquisition has writ to ask anything of them or act against them in any way.

If the Captain-General of the Custodes comes to the High Lords of Terra with something...who is going to say no? If the Captain-General of the Custodes says "that's a bad idea"...who is going to disagree? When the physical giant in humongous pre-heresy armor that makes a Space Marine look unimpressive, who has stood before God-Emperor himself and guards his phyical incarnation and is likely one of the few to have had any communication with him since his enthronement, stands before the High Lords and makes his voice known, what is anyone going to say or do other than, at absolutee mind-bogglingly worst, reluctantly go along with it?

Nobody, not even the Ecclesiarchy, is going to have anything to say over the Captain-General of the Custodes. If the Captain-General comes out and says he doesn't like something or decides that a certain course of action should be undertaken, who is going to say they know better? The Ecclesiarchy? The Captain-General has the whole "I probably know what the Emperor really wants" thing down a whole lot better, especially as he likely remembers the Emperor as a man, not merely a mythical god. If they disagree, the Custodes can always pull the "well, you know, wait here...I'll just go actually ask the fella" thing, or the "I'm the only guy in the room to have ever actually had a conversation with the Emperor, I think I know what I'm talking about" spiel.

I don't know. I don't think the Captain-General shows up at the High Lord meeting at says something like "So me and the Emperor where chatting last night yadda, yadda". The Emperor almost never converses with anyone. He himself rarely enters the throne room.
Furthermore, the guy who actually does show up to the meeting and says "The Emperor said this" is The Ecclesiarch. He is Space Pope and can claim to be hearing the Emperor due to his holy pointed hat.

I'm not saying he routinley does these things. From what it sounds like, the Captain-General stays out of things 99.9% of the time.

However, *should* he want to intervene, there'd be relatively little anyone would have to say about it. The Ecclesiarch is the head of the Cult of the Emperor, but really doesn't have much other than "I had a vision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", while the Captain-General guards the Emepror-in-Flesh and is old enough to remember him before he was enthroned and probably fought at the Emperor's side during the Great Crusade, and defended the Palace during two of the galaxies most terrible sieges. And if the Emperor is going to to *anyone*, surely it would be his custom created, unflinchingly loyal, always vigilant guardians who maintain constant vigil over his presence, in addition to being the only ones to ever actuall be near his physical body. The Custodes themselves are holy beyond question even to the Ecclesiarchy, and untouchable by the Inquisition by their own mandate, for that reason.

Yes, that's all impressive and is why he is sometimes given a seat. Also, I'm sure he's a stand up bloke and a nice guy that everyone likes. However, when he's actually on the Council he probably has the least importance of them all. He jurisdiction doesn't really extend beyond the palace.
It's craziness that he's destroying the Grand Provost Marshal in the poll who only has 1 vote! The poor sonuvabitch has people on every planet in the realm!
The Grand Provost Marshal has a permanent seat! The Captain-General doesn't even have a permanent seat!

The captain-general can kick people out to make room for himself though...
Though i agree with the point about the Grand Provost Marshal...

purplefood wrote:The captain-general can kick people out to make room for himself though...
Though i agree with the point about the Grand Provost Marshal...

He can't kick people out of the Palace only the Throne room. His entire Jurisdiction is one room. It's an important room but still...

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

purplefood wrote:The captain-general can kick people out to make room for himself though...
Though i agree with the point about the Grand Provost Marshal...

He can't kick people out of the Palace only the Throne room. His entire Jurisdiction is one room. It's an important room but still...

I swear he ha the power to force himself onto the coucil of the High Lords...
Like force the to give him a seat on it.

purplefood wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

purplefood wrote:The captain-general can kick people out to make room for himself though...
Though i agree with the point about the Grand Provost Marshal...

He can't kick people out of the Palace only the Throne room. His entire Jurisdiction is one room. It's an important room but still...

I swear he ha the power to force himself onto the coucil of the High Lords...
Like force the to give him a seat on it.

He physically has more than enough power to pick up another Lord and steal his chair. Other than that, no.

There is no highest Lord of Terra, the system is build so that no one has to much power. They even implemented new rules after Goge's little game with Astartes and Mechanicus.

But if someone must have the highest authority it should be the Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes, because they have no interest in power or territory - they are like Astartes and only look to serve the Mankind and the Emperor.

Do anybody know how often they meet and discuss about the next course of the Imperium?

I think the point is he could march into the council room with some Custodes and erm clear some of the seats there, albeit there may be some scraps left after he is finished

purplefood wrote:The captain-general can kick people out to make room for himself..

Well with a single round house you know who can kick everyone out?

Brother Coa wrote:There is no highest Lord of Terra, the system is build so that no one has to much power. They even implemented new rules after Goge's little game with Astartes and Mechanicus.

But if someone must have the highest authority it should be the Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes, because they have no interest in power or territory - they are like Astartes and only look to serve the Mankind and the Emperor.

Do anybody know how often they meet and discuss about the next course of the Imperium?

Pretty sure its a full time job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wardragoon wrote:I think the point is he could march into the council room with some Custodes and erm clear some of the seats there, albeit there may be some scraps left after he is finished

He would only do that if the Council drafted a memo saying "The Emperor must die". Overall he's not that concerned with what the silly humans are doing to themselves, only with the safety of the Emperor.

That wasn't my point. I vaguely remember reading something saying that he could force out a High Lord to make room for himself...

IIRC the Custodes are the ultimate authority for Terra itself (being the Emperor's place of residence), not just the Throne room, and the Imperial Palace, along with the Astronominican, is very much their jurisdiction if I'm remembering correctly, even if they leave the day to day operation to others and rarely take any interest in Galactic affairs outside of those pertaining to the Emperor's phsyical protection and the Astronominican.

Anyway, the point about the Captain-General of the Custodes was not so much that he routinely wields such power, only that, should the need arise, there's not much anyone can do if the Captain-General of the Custodes marches in, stands up, and says "This is happening...deal with it" or "That's not going to happen". The Ecclesiarchy's moral authority is as nothing next to his, the Inquisition can't do anything to him, and who else is going to defy him?

For most things and normal operations, I'd say it's probably a struggle between the Administratum and Mechanicus.

Uh, astronomicon?

Keeps stuff moving?

Like assassins? Or paperwork? Or machines? Or priests? Or captured heretics? Or troops? Or fleets? Or cop? Gives navigators a job?

Vaktathi wrote:IIRC the Custodes are the ultimate authority for Terra itself (being the Emperor's place of residence), not just the Throne room, and the Imperial Palace, along with the Astronominican, is very much their jurisdiction if I'm remembering correctly, even if they leave the day to day operation to others and rarely take any interest in Galactic affairs outside of those pertaining to the Emperor's phsyical protection and the Astronominican.

Anyway, the point about the Captain-General of the Custodes was not so much that he routinely wields such power, only that, should the need arise, there's not much anyone can do if the Captain-General of the Custodes marches in, stands up, and says "This is happening...deal with it" or "That's not going to happen". The Ecclesiarchy's moral authority is as nothing next to his, the Inquisition can't do anything to him, and who else is going to defy him?

Who's going to listen to him? He can not tell The Lord Militant to invade planet such and such or tell the Astronomicon to burn a little brighter. He can't even tell the Fabricator-General to put more toilet paper in the Custodes locker room.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Who's going to listen to him? He can not tell The Lord Militant to invade planet such and such or tell the Astronomicon to burn a little brighter. He can't even tell the Fabricator-General to put more toilet paper in the Custodes locker room.

I'm fairly certain if the guy who is in in the physical presence of the Emperor on a daily basis, and is more physically powerful and wields scarier weapons than even the Space Marines, and who defended the Imperial Palace during the Horus Heresy, and has been navigating the intrigues of Imperial politics for thousands of years (remember that the Custodes are not like the Space Marines, they do take an interest in the politics and intrigues of the various organizations and nobles in order to carry out their duties), whose sole duty is the protection of the Emperor's physical form, with the authority to do literally whatever he wants to whomever he wants and the Inquisition isn't even allowed to send a sternly worded letter to him about it, walks into a room and tells the Lord Militant that a certain planet needs to be invaded, it's going to happen. Likewise, if he needs TP, the Fabricator General is going get it for him. Because if the Captain-General of the Custodes is asking for it, it's probably rather important.

Vaktathi wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Who's going to listen to him? He can not tell The Lord Militant to invade planet such and such or tell the Astronomicon to burn a little brighter. He can't even tell the Fabricator-General to put more toilet paper in the Custodes locker room.

I'm fairly certain if the guy who is in in the physical presence of the Emperor on a daily basis, and is more physically powerful and wields scarier weapons than even the Space Marines, and who defended the Imperial Palace during the Horus Heresy, and has been navigating the intrigues of Imperial politics for thousands of years (remember that the Custodes are not like the Space Marines, they do take an interest in the politics and intrigues of the various organizations and nobles in order to carry out their duties), whose sole duty is the protection of the Emperor's physical form, with the authority to do literally whatever he wants to whomever he wants and the Inquisition isn't even allowed to send a sternly worded letter to him about it, walks into a room and tells the Lord Militant that a certain planet needs to be invaded, it's going to happen. Likewise, if he needs TP, the Fabricator General is going get it for him. Because if the Captain-General of the Custodes is asking for it, it's probably rather important.

I can't agree. You making it sound as if The Captain-General is physically intimidating other Lords. He won't get far like that. He wouldn't even get a seat if he conducted himself like that.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Who's going to listen to him? He can not tell The Lord Militant to invade planet such and such or tell the Astronomicon to burn a little brighter. He can't even tell the Fabricator-General to put more toilet paper in the Custodes locker room.

I'm fairly certain if the guy who is in in the physical presence of the Emperor on a daily basis, and is more physically powerful and wields scarier weapons than even the Space Marines, and who defended the Imperial Palace during the Horus Heresy, and has been navigating the intrigues of Imperial politics for thousands of years (remember that the Custodes are not like the Space Marines, they do take an interest in the politics and intrigues of the various organizations and nobles in order to carry out their duties), whose sole duty is the protection of the Emperor's physical form, with the authority to do literally whatever he wants to whomever he wants and the Inquisition isn't even allowed to send a sternly worded letter to him about it, walks into a room and tells the Lord Militant that a certain planet needs to be invaded, it's going to happen. Likewise, if he needs TP, the Fabricator General is going get it for him. Because if the Captain-General of the Custodes is asking for it, it's probably rather important.

I can't agree. You making it sound as if The Captain-General is physically intimidating other Lords. He won't get far like that. He wouldn't even get a seat if he conducted himself like that.

Not so much intimidation, but rather an imposing respect and authority borne from a singluarly important duty that really one just can't say "no" to and that nobody can interfere with. Which of course can, if necessary, be backed up by ultimate governing power over the planet and of course the physical violence that a super soldier superior even to the Astartes is capable of if absolutely required. It's one of those things where it's like "well, if he's demanding this, he's probably got a very good reason, and as such probably knows a hell of a lot more about this than we do". It's also not like the High Lords could conduct business on Terra if he were to decide he did not want them on the planet any longer (not a likely case, but still...)

It is very difficult to see anyone not acquiescing to the wishes of the commander of the Emperor's personal bodyguard, and the closest thing to a physical voice that the Emperor still has (unlike the "spiritual" voice of the Ecclesiarchy) unless they have some sort of information that would change his mind, should the Captain-General choose to force an issue. Are you really going to deny/disagree with someone who helped unite Terra, forge the Imperium in the Great Crusade, fought at the Emperor's side and is in the physical presence of the God Emperor of Mankind on the Golden Throne on a daily basis if they come to you and say "this must be done" or "this must not be done"?

I'm not saying that for everything the High Lords do, the Captain General dictates everything or whatnot. If it's something like "should we fund construction project 91898530298432423535 in the Gamma Draconis XXIII system?" he probably won't care, or would defer to others. He probably rarely has much to do with anything he doesn't think effects his duty or likely is in the majority on most votes almost all the time. However should push come to shove, above any other High Lord, if the Captain-General wanted something done, his will would probably take precedence should it come to that. No other High Lord can lay claim to the same sort of legitimacy of moral authority, and few could compete with a call to aid the likes of which the Custodes could raise.

If the Master of the Administratum, High Ecclesiarch, or the Fabricator General were to get into a poltical tug of war with the Captain-General, it's hard to see where others would be willing to take their side over the Custodes, and it's not hard to see where the loyalties of the Astartes and most other Imperial military factions would lie if it came to open violence. Who would fight for the Ecclesiarchy against the most holy bodyguards and protectors of, who have actually seen and been in the presenceor, and control access to, the Imperial Corporalis itself for instance?

Vaktathi wrote:It's one of those things where it's like "well, if he's demanding this, he's probably got a very good reason, and as such probably knows a hell of a lot more about this than we do". It's also not like the High Lords could conduct business on Terra if he were to decide he did not want them on the planet any longer (not a likely case, but still...)

While being the Commander of the Adaptus Custodes is probably one of the most honourable positions in all the Imperium. I can't see that he really carries much authority. I don't know what exactly it takes to become a High Lord of Terra, but I imagine half the counsel is comprised of the most politically shrewd, scheming, backstabbing megalomaniacs in all the galaxy. I don't think many of them are going to be swayed from their own political agendas by the emperors bodyguard, no mater how how honourable, or even correct he was.

Are you really going to deny/disagree with someone who helped unite Terra, forge the Imperium in the Great Crusade, fought at the Emperor's side and is in the physical presence of the God Emperor of Mankind

Wait! Where are you getting this from? It sounds awesome that the Commander of the Adaptus Custodes might have fought to unite Terra, but this is the first I've heard of it. What official fluff says that he is immortal?

The Fabricator-General probably has ancient Dark Age of Technology herb cultivating techniques, so he is the highest. 100% THC, baby, yeah!

Smacks wrote:
While being the Commander of the Adaptus Custodes is probably one of the most honourable positions in all the Imperium. I can't see that he really carries much authority. I don't know what exactly it takes to become a High Lord of Terra, but I imagine half the counsel is comprised of the most politically shrewd, scheming, backstabbing megalomaniacs in all the galaxy. I don't think many of them are going to be swayed from their own political agendas by the emperors bodyguard, no mater how how honourable, or even correct he was.

The Custodes fluff specifically has them maintaining intelligence on the various organizations of the Imperium and its noble houses and engaging in infiltration operations on terra and the like, engaging in at least some degree of political intrigue in order to ensure that the various political games bring no harm to the Emperor himself, operating in ways the Space Marines just won't.

Wait! Where are you getting this from? It sounds awesome that the Commander of the Adaptus Custodes might have fought to unite Terra, but this is the first I've heard of it. What official fluff says that he is immortal?

Their creation process is far more advanced and resource intensive than even Space Marines, (SM's are basically a streamlined and stripped down Custode) and it's not really like the Custodes really do recruiting, so if they're still around, it's hard to see them not being functionally immortal, especially being the Emperor's handcrafted bodyguard with access to technologies not seen in the Imperium since the height of the Great Crusade.

Space Marines are not streamlined and stripped down Custodes, they are basically mini-versions of their primarchs. The modifications done to the primarchs at the cellular level were re-created as organs that could be implanted into capable hosts.

IIRC, Custodes predate the Primarchs.

Omegus wrote:Space Marines are not streamlined and stripped down Custodes, they are basically mini-versions of their primarchs. The modifications done to the primarchs at the cellular level were re-created as organs that could be implanted into capable hosts.

IIRC, Custodes predate the Primarchs.

The process used to create the Space Marines from the Primarchs is a stripped down and streamlined process from what was done to make the Custodes from the Emperor. Yes they predate the Primarchs, but the process to create the Space Marines was adapted from that used for the Custodes, though is toned down quite a bit.

I was re-reading some parts of Realms of Chaos yesterday, and I seem to recall it stating differently. When I get home from work, I'll pull up the appropriate passage.

Omegus wrote:I was re-reading some parts of Realms of Chaos yesterday, and I seem to recall it stating differently. When I get home from work, I'll pull up the appropriate passage.

The old, old RT book? I haven't read that in a long while, I'm basing most of this off of the Horus Heresy Collected Visions book from ~2006 that details the Siege of Terra and whatnot and the stuff like the Imperial Webway beneath the palace that took most of the Emperor's & the Custodes attention/efforts during the siege.

Yeah they are basically a kind of master crafted Space Marine. One that's uniquely built, rather than mass produced from the Geneseed of a Primarch.

But I don't see how that is evidence that they are significantly longer-lived than Space Marines; I think it is quite a leap to say it makes them functionally immortal. I can't find any mention in the fluff of this being the case, though it does mention their training. I think that points more towards them dying and being replaced just like Marines (albeit at a slower rate).

As for the Custodes political clout... I have no doubt that they a learned and adept politicians and diplomats. But understanding power and being in a position of power are not the same thing.

One thing I think the High Commander of the Custodes does have going for him is that he pretty much has the Imperial Fists at his beck and call. I imagine most Space Marine Chapters would side with him over any other High Lord (Including even the master of the inquisition). Space Wolves would for sure. Because they share a common purpose, being loyalty to the Emperor.

Space Marines are functionally immortal.

Smacks wrote:Yeah they are basically a kind of master crafted Space Marine. One that's uniquely built, rather than mass produced from the Geneseed of a Primarch.

But I don't see how that is evidence that they are significantly longer-lived than Space Marines; I think it is quite a leap to say it makes them functionally immortal. I can't find any mention in the fluff of this being the case, though it does mention their training. I think that points more towards them dying and being replaced just like Marines (albeit at a slower rate).

As for the Custodes political clout... I have no doubt that they a learned and adept politicians and diplomats. But understanding power and being in a position of power are not the same thing.

One thing I think the High Commander of the Custodes does have going for him is that he pretty much has the Imperial Fists at his beck and call. I imagine most Space Marine Chapters would side with him over any other High Lord (Including even the master of the inquisition). Space Wolves would for sure. Because they share a common purpose, being loyalty to the Emperor.

They all share that purpose. Even Goge Vandire thought he was.

Vandire is also a good example of the Custodes exercising their ultimate power.



Custodes: Ok, this is getting silly and threatening the protection of the Emperor himself, let's go do something about this High Lord

Brides of the Emperor: Halt, we will try to stop you, for Vandire works in the name of the Emperor!

Custodes: Our Emperors, let me show you them...



20 mins later...



Brides of the Emperor: So about that Vandire guy...yeah...don't worry about it, we'll go take care of it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:They all share that purpose. Even Goge Vandire thought he was.

Not really, most imperial organisations are subject to Imperial hierarchy which have their own agendas. Space Marines and Custodes bypass all that an answer only to themselves and the Emperor.