So I enjoy making Space Marine chapters and basing them off of differant cultures even if I don't make models for the chapter (most often I'll make at least 1). I've made quiet a few chapters but I'd like some suggestions on cultures that have existed throughout history that I could research and turn into a chapter. I'm not looking for themes or ideas on how the chapters could be made just cultures.
Also here are cultures I've already done.
Maori/Samoan/Polynesian
Russian Cossack
Native American
Aztec/Mayan
Chinese
Egyptian
Here are cultures suggested that I'll be doing so far
Zulu
Spanish Conquistadors
Tuareg
And cultures that won't be done as they are already popular or used
Templars or Knights of any kind
Mongols/huns
Greece/romans
Aren't the Native American's used slightly by the Dark Angels?
Personally I'd like to see some more asian cultures (including the middle east as it is on the continent of Asia), because as far as I know, the White Scars is the only one, and they are largely based off of the Mongol culture.
How about african of some sort? Salamanders have dark skin, but they're the only chapter I can think of that does and their culture is 'burn stuff' rather than matching any earth society.
Or ancient Greek maybe? I guess Ultramarines have some of that look with the occasional helmet-crest, but I don't think there's any that focus on it specifically.
As another poster said there aren't any asian themed ones really, might be hard to pull off that look without some conversion though.
Egyptian could look cool, I can't think of any chapters based on that.
Umm...Babylonian? I have no idea how you would do that, but it's an interesting culture that isn't touched on much.
Certainly a difficult task, finding one that not only hasn't been done but sounds feasible.
Babylonians, Persians, Imperial Japan...think, as stated above, the larger portion of Eastern Asia has been left alone for the most part. India? Crusading-age Arabians? Zulus?
Think alot of the more recent history would be more in-line with the Imperial Guard, rather than the Space Marines.
Females (runs and hides in fear of life from the inevitable Dakka Fatwa)
Mwnciboo has a rather tasty Native American Chapter. the Bear Claws.
Sikh Moghul Tibetan Buddhist in saffron and Monkey Magic Kali worshipping Thuggi Actually anything from the sub continent woul be ACE! That has me thinking would it be possible to tie in with my SW's
Arabs or Christian Crusaders? Like those in the movie Kingdom of Heaven. Franks? some Germanic tribes perhaps? Huns? or maybe after Alexander the Great's armies or even Persians.
I am getting rather excited so have been naming everything that comes to my mind. Hope it helps.
Conservationist wrote:Arabs or Christian Crusaders? Like those in the movie Kingdom of Heaven. Franks? some Germanic tribes perhaps? Huns? or maybe after Alexander the Great's armies or even Persians.
I am getting rather excited so have been naming everything that comes to my mind. Hope it helps.
Crusaders could also be considered the Black Templars, if you ask me.
I was about to say the Black Templars are crusaders.
The Knights of the Temple were one of the crusading military orders.
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gloomygrim wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
English era of Elizabeth I. -- Flamboyant individualist uniforms, very loyal, good naval forces.
May not be that era, history is rusty, or from a SM chapter but isnt the moridian iorn gaurd based on them/era?
Culture wise how about the Visigoths, fast and stealthy?
Mordian Iron Guard are more like late 18th century Prussian army, IMO.
Visigoths, Huns, Tartars and Mongols are all more or less similar steppe horse tribes. The main variation is how much each tribe depended on missile firepower rather than charging. They are all a good model for a Chapter.
It seems that the white scars are loosely based of the steppe peoples... Of course, none of the culture shows through in the models, only in they way they, supposedly, are obsessed with hit and run strikes.
@blazingpsycho&typhooni: The Dark Angels have very few Native American enfluences, that dosen't make them a Native American chapter.
@Ghyslain: Greece is a horse that has been beaten, brought back to life and beaten again. But the Zulu of Africa is a good idea however I already have done an Egyptian chapter (Eternal Guard) and an asian chapter (Jade Lions). It was early when I made this and I was half asleep so I'll update with what I've made.
@Killkrazy: As I said I only need the cultures not how the chapter could be based. Incans falls under the same catagory as the Mayans/Aztecs that I've already done and Mongolians are the White Scars. I'll look into the others though
@Fifty: The Scottish Highlander chapter is called the Ravenborn and they're a very well done chapter. Also London police and Canadian Mounties aren't cultures. And you probably won't be seeing marines in cowboy hats or sombraros from me although it woulden't be hard to make a "wild west" themed chapter.
@purplefood: forgive my ignorance as an American but I don't know how wales differs from the rest of England?
@Brother Coa: Aren't there Cossacks in the Balkans? I know I said Russians but the chapter has elements of all the cossacks peoples.
@Concervationist: Arabs is an idea as I haven't seen very many chapters strongly associated with the desert (and yes I know there is more to arab culture then the desert). But as has been said Templars or christian knight based cultures are pretty much covered with the Black Templars.
@Lord PoPo: The White Scars aren't "Supposedly" based on the Mongols and Huns they are based on them. Just because the models dosen't 100% represent the chapters fluff dosen't mean they aren't based off of a specific culture ya know?
@Mattlov: The Inuit peoples still fall under the Native American culture, furs dosen't really make a differance as many differant tribes wore furs depending on where they lived.
How about the French, circa early Hundred Years war. Lots of armor. Waaaay too much armor. And everybody has a flamboyant and colorful personal heraldry on their storm shields/combat shields/tabards, and individual crests and plumes on their helmets. Caparisoned SM bikers with roughrider lances.
And they die in droves to grubby english yeomen (woo hoo)
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:@purplefood: forgive my ignorance as an American but I don't know how wales differs from the rest of England?
Wales is Wales. England is England. Wales isn't a part of England.
Historically it's Celtic and has had a few rebellions. Also they used the longbow a lot, it was their best weapon.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:@blazingpsycho&typhooni: The Dark Angels have very few Native American enfluences, that dosen't make them a Native American chapter.
quote]
I was aware of that, just pointing out that the DA used elements of Native American culture.
I would much rather see more mixtures of cultures rather than just one culture in a chapter, leaves more room for creativity and gives that a future feel as i doubt many cultures today will be here in the future. Has anyone mentioned any island nations? A polynesian culture?
Also do the cultures have to come from real life? A completely aquatic, or sky, or subterranean culture. Ice has been used before... and so has fire.
I thought Inuit would be unused, but I see it up there. Also Sikhs were mentioned but what about Ghurkas? A long militant tradition there and i love the idea of power kukris!
Good call re Ghurkas
The thought crossed my mind but failed to connect the idea with power kukris...eek
would strike fear into the heart of the hardest foe!
Papua New Guinea Cannibal Tribes (seriously do a search for papua new guinea tribes on google and check out some of the face painting and costume, would look very cool).
Australian Aborigines with fingerpainted patterns on their armour and vehicles.
Celts. Look at the ancient artwork and knotwork patterning you could paint there.
Hmm, just had a look at the game Civilisation IV, for a list of major world civs. I was going to post all the ones that hadn't been mentioned, but instead, http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/civilizations
Sorry it's not more direct, but there are lots of interesting cultures I'd never heard of until I played that game, and wiki will give you a lot of ideas about their styles.
Only a few threads there, and obviously Gurkhas - if done well, looking into the origin of their induction into the Empire is pretty interesting - would be awesome. Enjoy!
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Papua New Guinea Cannibal Tribes
Having a close connection with PNG I've used some aspects of the tribes with my own Chapter although the traditions did lead to some, 'trouble', which nearly destroyed them.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:@purplefood: forgive my ignorance as an American but I don't know how wales differs from the rest of England?
I can literally hear the screams of anger from ever Welsh member of Dakka, Wales is a seperate country, having your own seperate language and culture is a pretty big difference.
Kilkrazy wrote:
gloomygrim wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
English era of Elizabeth I. -- Flamboyant individualist uniforms, very loyal, good naval forces.
May not be that era, history is rusty, or from a SM chapter but isnt the moridian iorn gaurd based on them/era?
Culture wise how about the Visigoths, fast and stealthy?
Mordian Iron Guard are more like late 18th century Prussian army, IMO.
Apart from the fact that look exactly like US marines in dress uniform
I thought that the Maori/Samoan/Polynesian is being done by forge world:
I can literally hear the screams of anger from ever Welsh member of Dakka, Wales is a seperate country, having your own seperate language and culture is a pretty big difference.
Mordian Iron Guard are more like late 18th century Prussian army, IMO.
The UK - totally explained in just over 5 mins. Very handy!
And Mordians definitely aren't Elizabethan troops - everything was extremely feudal in those days, and not particularly well-organised. Clothing-wise, everyone looked like WHFB Empire troops. The fleet that stopped the Armada was basically just a bunch of pirates and merchants outfitted with new guns and told to fight for the crown.
I definitely see Mordians as pretty darn Prussian.
Oh, another possibility, although it's probably been done before - Medieval Polish? Winged Hussars anyone?
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:@purplefood: forgive my ignorance as an American but I don't know how wales differs from the rest of England?
I can literally hear the screams of anger from ever Welsh member of Dakka, Wales is a seperate country, having your own seperate language and culture is a pretty big difference.
Kilkrazy wrote:
gloomygrim wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
English era of Elizabeth I. -- Flamboyant individualist uniforms, very loyal, good naval forces.
May not be that era, history is rusty, or from a SM chapter but isnt the moridian iorn gaurd based on them/era?
Culture wise how about the Visigoths, fast and stealthy?
Mordian Iron Guard are more like late 18th century Prussian army, IMO.
Apart from the fact that look exactly like US marines in dress uniform
I thought that the Maori/Samoan/Polynesian is being done by forge world:
Maori/Samoan/Polynesian
Yes, Forgeworld's new Charcharodons have a Maori/Samoan feel to them with the tattoos.
Tlingit raiders. It's an Alaska native culture from the south east pan handle. Very unique in that they have a art style like other Alaskan cultures and have an island/samoan warrior culture that was feared all the way down to northern california. Lots of bludgeony weapons and brute strength/ruthelessness with a unique art style.
The helmets they wore were worn with collars. Think of the helmets that Ga'ould warriors wore from Stargate. Lots of black, red and turqoise, just type in Tingit artwork and you can investigate for yourself. Something different for ya
Morris Men; you could do some hefty damage with a powered whiffling stick and lets face it what enemy could last more than five minutes before fleeing in blind terror?
Gogsnik wrote:Morris Men; you could do some hefty damage with a powered whiffling stick and lets face it what enemy could last more than five minutes before fleeing in blind shame?
purplefood wrote:Wales is Wales. England is England. Wales isn't a part of England.
Historically it's Celtic and has had a few rebellions. Also they used the longbow a lot, it was their best weapon.
I was going to sugesst the Celts, but I think purplefood beat me to the punch. Still, from what little I've learned, facinating people. Great mythology.
Gogsnik wrote:Morris Men; you could do some hefty damage with a powered whiffling stick and lets face it what enemy could last more than five minutes before fleeing in blind terror?
Disco Marines have already been done. They could be a brother chapter.
Kolath wrote:Do you have any pics of the one you've done already?
I haven't done any yet It's a humour chapter. They believe they're worshipping the eldar trickster god, but they really have no idea what they're talking about, and believe juggling is the path to enlightenment, because their orginal chapter master died at the hands of a shadowseer, who apparently told the chapter some divine secret. But they lost the secret and are trying to find it.
My bad
Well I knew it began with a pee and ended in an ark. That is one aspect of the Flood they don't mention in the Bible! Christmas can be a bit chaotic
But bloomin 'eck! Santa looks a bit rough .
Turkish marines.
Aborginese marines (flows off the tongue well)
Canadian marines (speak french)
Panamanian marines (good at standing around while guys build canals)
Colombian Marines- guerilla tactics, combat drugs ()
Ok well most people are just suggesting the same things over and over, aren't being serious or things I've already done so I'm pretty sure I got all I needed. Thanks all
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Ok well most people are just suggesting the same things over and over, aren't being serious or things I've already done so I'm pretty sure I got all I needed. Thanks all
Not interested in Feudal Japan like I mentioned? I am surprised nobody else mentioned it to be honest.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:So I enjoy making Space Marine chapters and basing them off of differant cultures even if I don't make models for the chapter (most often I'll make at least 1). I've made quiet a few chapters but I'd like some suggestions on cultures that have existed throughout history that I could research and turn into a chapter. I'm not looking for themes or ideas on how the chapters could be made just cultures.
Also here are cultures I've already done.
Maori/Samoan/Polynesian
Russian Cossack
Native American
Aztec/Mayan
Chinese
Egyptian
Here are cultures suggested that I'll be doing so far
Zulu
Spanish Conquistadors
Tuareg
And cultures that won't be done as they are already popular or used
Templars or Knights of any kind
Mongols/huns
Greece/romans
Egyptian has already sort of been done with Thousand Sons legion.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Ok well most people are just suggesting the same things over and over, aren't being serious or things I've already done so I'm pretty sure I got all I needed. Thanks all
Not interested in Feudal Japan like I mentioned? I am surprised nobody else mentioned it to be honest.
Hmm I like
Also could combine with the monk concept I mentioned and have a chapter of Warrior Monks. Shaved heads for a reason! Or some units consistist of Samurai, with others as Monks.
Trouble for me is have the SW codex whereas the Warrior Monks would best be based on GK's?
I like the idea of squads of marines running round with those banners with the chapter mon.
Have you considered a Celtic theme though? Lots of excellent lore and stories behind them and some incredible names throughout. Imagery could be very strong too with symbols etc.
sailense wrote:I'd love to see how you've done Maori/Samoan/Polynesian. Any chance it's up here somewhere?
No sorry they aren't on here, but if you google Maori Space Marines one of the first results should say Storm Riders and it should be on B&C. It's an old version and I've updated the fluff since then but I haven't put it online. I'll be posting some of these chapters after I create them on here for people to see and it'll include the updated index.
Also I found my folder with all of my DIY chapters and I have done a celtic chapter. They are called the Head Takers and are based off of the time period when Saxon settelers lived with and alongside scottish tribes (such as the Picts) at the fall of the Roman Empire. Their a slight mix between celtic peoples/mythologies with a few Scandinavian bits mixed in. Their colors are half and half woad blue and iron grey, their name comes from the celtic practice of taking the heads of defeated enemies which they believed contained their souls. There are also influences from other time periods such as claymores, the chapter has a honor guard of Terminators who wield Eviscerators shaped like claymores.
So in short yes I have made a celtic chapter they should also come up on a B&C through google. I'd post links but I'm on my phone
Orlanth wrote:How about a Jewish chapter, either modern or ancient Israel, or a bit of both.
I somehow imagine modern Israeli troops as being super-Cadians - the most modern, well co-ordinated IG force you can put together, with tanks, infantry and air support working in combo. I'm not sure how that would translate to Astartes.
But Ark of the Covenant, that'd be pretty cool - is there any references anywhere to distinct weaponry or clothing for Old Testament Hebrews for the rest of the army?
I'm pretty sure someone said oceana or polynesia, but if they didn't I'm just putting it out there again...
I'm looking at my miniature light up globe and here's what i've got:
India - Sikhs, Hindus
Persians
Arabs during the rise of Islam (but in 40k sense, the faith in the emporer)
Saharan pygmies (have to contend with living in the savanna and living off water provided by roots)
*** A little side note with the african countries. There's a theory why they are so poor now is because thousands of years ago, man was able to domesticate animals (mainly sheep horses and the like), except for those in africa as the animals there were obviously more dangerous. Try domesticating the lions. Anyways my point I'm trying to get at is instead of maybe just taking from history, why not looking at more what ifs. As in what if those on the african savanna managed to domesticate those wild creatures? Could you imagine a warrior charging in on a rhino or scouts on a cheetah?****
Anyways that was my little rant about that...
Obviously everyone is forgetting one continent, ANTARTICA!!!! Penguins have awesome culture
As I sat here thinking, one thing happened to pop into my head when I kinda gave up hope of giving a unique one...
Western. As in cowboy western. Space marines that wear hats and use dual (twin linked) pistols. Would also need a mounted unit. Less vehicles overall. More... initiative? Chaplins would fit in. They would need acute senses and/or skilled riders as the chapter USR. Bike squads change to something else, or stay the same. I can't think of any other changes.
And I know you said culture, but instead of thinking of nationality for culture, I think this fits.
I think all the good ones have been said already. From what I've seen, there are very few Native American or Asian based chapters. White Scars are all I can think of. So those would be something I'd suggest.
I always thought the Rainbow Warriors were based on Aztec, judging from this picture.
How about Carthage? A pretty badass conversion, perhaps with a special Rhino called The Elephant that carries troops and amazing on sieges and surprise attacks.
Also, I think the Iron Warriors are already loosely based on XIV century turks.
My standard answer is always: Space Marines with ten-gallon hats and Waikiki shirts, lower leg armour taken off to show thin legs
Wales chapter, let's see: Black/grey colour scheme, masses of standard troopers, no money for vehicles
British Steampunk Chapter might work (as allies of Praetorians): Heads changed to Westwind WW2 Tommy helmet heads, (RAF bluegrey or) Dark Angel Green armour with big Union Jack, radiator grill on the Rhino front armour, desert rat emblem on the back, driver sitting on the right side, command squad with backpipes, one squad with kilts, one with turbans, may not attack in the fifth round (tea time)
Kroothawk wrote:
British Steampunk Chapter might work (as allies of Praetorians): Heads changed to Westwind WW2 Tommy helmet heads, (RAF bluegrey or) Dark Angel Green armour with big Union Jack, radiator grill on the Rhino front armour, desert rat emblem on the back, driver sitting on the right side, command squad with backpipes, one squad with kilts, one with turbans, may not attack in the fifth round (tea time)
silence indigo wrote:Canadian space marines : the Maple Legion.
White and red colours, maple leaves, barrels of sirup, beavers and woodaxes galore.
Always polite, great with snow, and multicultural.
The fact that you are re-inforcing the stereotype of your own, OUR own, country, appalls me... what's next are they all going to wear mounty hats and end every sentence with eh while wearing a variety of plaid equipment?
Yeah there aren't many well known cultures left that haven't been already stated... Incans?
How about one of the greatest warrior cultures know to the 40k universe.....ORKS!
Base a chapter on the traditions of the Mighty Ork empire, , now that would confuse the heck outta people
Forgive me if I somehow skipped over someone else suggesting this, but what about some kind of Vietnam-movie cliche Space Marine chapter that prefers Devastator squads, and tactical squads with heavy weapons, plus aerial tactics. They could be an oft-censored, cavalier bunch that likes to leave calling cards, fight with other chapters, and generally have all the bravado and asshattery of Chaos without being outright evil. They would be quite indiscriminate of civilians (shooty army, lots of templates, WHIRLWINDS!, aerial attacks, razorbacks, bikes for FA, etc.)
You could call them something like the Sons of the Apocalypse, or any other play on a Vietnam movie. Make special characters like a Kurtz or something based on your favorite C:SM character.
that herr Baroness sounds alot like the Marines Malevolent, a chapter I always thought would be kinda fun to do just to have a good excuse to kick other marine chapters around, I could not get over the yellow and black paint scheme....not my favorite combo.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Incans go along with the Aztec and Mayans which i've already done.
I've seen more ignorant statements.
But not many.
I don't see how it's ignorant considering that the Aztec, Incans and Mayans are all considered mezoamerican cultures and because of this when I created my mezoamerican BA successor chapter I incorperated elements of all 3 cultures.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Incans go along with the Aztec and Mayans which i've already done.
I've seen more ignorant statements.
But not many.
I don't see how it's ignorant considering that the Aztec, Incans and Mayans are all considered mezoamerican cultures and because of this when I created my mezoamerican BA successor chapter I incorperated elements of all 3 cultures.
It's like saying there's no difference between France and Germany because they're both European. The Incas aren't even Mesoamerican. They were in Chile and Peru; Mesoamerica is Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador, western Honduras, Nicaragua Costa Rica.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Incans go along with the Aztec and Mayans which i've already done.
I've seen more ignorant statements.
But not many.
I don't see how it's ignorant considering that the Aztec, Incans and Mayans are all considered mezoamerican cultures and because of this when I created my mezoamerican BA successor chapter I incorperated elements of all 3 cultures.
It's like saying there's no difference between France and Germany because they're both European. The Incas aren't even Mesoamerican. They were in Chile and Peru; Mesoamerica is Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador, western Honduras, Nicaragua Costa Rica.
It's completely ridiculous.
It's funny how people read the first little snippit of Wikipedia and think that they know everything. I'll have you know that besides being a geographic term mesoamerican is also a cultural referance used when discussing pre-colombian people of which the Incans, Mayans and Aztecs are all apart of. So before you go off calling someone ignorant you should probably know what you're talking about.
Also if you go back to the post to which you seem to think makes me ignorant I would like for you to point out where exactly I said there was no differance between the 3 cultures (which you implied with your european comment)? or how about pointing out where I said that all 3 cultures are the same which actually would be ignorant statements. But given that all I said was that the 3 go together (because I already made a chapter that incorperates elements of all 3 cultures) that means that your assumption as to what I ment and the subsequent labeling of my statement as ignorant is wrong. And frankly as a moderator you should know better.
Don't know if this has been mentioned in the 4 or 5 pages worth of posts...and it's not really a culture...but I've always fancied a Redcoat style Chapter.
Led by Chapter Master Wellington
Scout Squad led my Major Richard Sharp
Dreadnought Obadiah ('you can't kill me Sharpie')
etc etc You see what I'm doing here folks?
However I think the colour scheme would be gastly on a mini lol...white trousers, black helmets, red chest/shoulders. Argh, my theoretical eyes!
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:[ And frankly as a moderator you should know better.
First of all, I'm not a moderator. Aside from that, I didn't attack you personally; I pointed out that you didn't know what you were talking about, that's all.
Secondly, we both know what you said so I'm not going to go back and quote it again.
Third, you're wrong about the term Mesoamerican. It refers to the region I described.
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Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:It's funny how people read the first little snippit of Wikipedia and think that they know everything.
I think you mean "snippet" and believe it or not, some people know the difference between Mesoamerica and Chile.
Oh so since we both know what I said then you know you owe me an apology because there wasen't one thing ignorant about what I said. And considering the context in which I was speaking I'd really like for you to prove that I didn't know what I was talking about, I'm really interested in hearing how someone who obviously knows all can take me saying that I've already made a chapter which contained elements of 3 cultures (hence me saying they all go together and that I've already done them) and hear them explain to me how exactly I didn't know what I was talking about with my own chapter. So go ahead I'm waiting to hear this great explination.
And as far as being wrong about the second deffinition for mesoamerican, prove it. Saying that it's wrong does not make it wrong it makes some guys who called my statement ignorant because he can't read properly into someone who also thinks that words can't have multiple meanings and obviously dosen't own an up to date thesarus. Oh and for the record I don't give two feths how it's spelled.
FWIW Incas are not from, nor classified as Meso Americans. Meso means mid, middle and in this context refers to Central America. It is a geographical term and not cultural.
The cultural grouping is called Pre-Columbian.
If there is no difference twixt the Pre-Columbian cultures then the same could be said for the Celts, Saxon, Vikings. Or Between the Romans and Greeks for that matter.
And yet if anyone does any actual research besides what they read on wikipedia they can see that Incans are in fact a mesoamerican culture. Go ahead, google the terms together and see how many historical orginizations and research groups support it
Even if Incas were Mesoamerican, which they aren't (regardless of what your impeccable sources of answer.com and all those random blogs say) the real issue is your idea that they are culturally indistinguishable from the Maya and Aztecs.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:And yet if anyone does any actual research besides what they read on wikipedia they can see that Incans are in fact a mesoamerican culture. Go ahead, google the terms together and see how many historical orginizations and research groups support it
Sorry Warboss but I haven't used Wiki
Again Meso America refers to a geographical area and NOT a culture.
Just look at a map of South America
While not a student of South American cultures I did study Pre Colombian art for my own interest.
Long before Google was ever thought of, there were these fascinating places called libraries full of books.
I actually read some of them as well as look at the pretty pictures.
Monster Rain wrote:Even if Incas were Mesoamerican, which they aren't (regardless of what your impeccable sources of answer.com and all those random blogs say) the real issue is your idea that they are culturally indistinguishable from the Maya and
Aztecs.
And what's funny is you have yet to prove that this is the context in which my statement was made which is what I challanged you to do.
@Chibi Bodge-battle: Assuming that you are more informed about something then someone else is an arrogant stance to take especially when you know nothing about the person you're talking to nor their experience. I to have read books on the subject, I to frequent the library as well as owning a great number of history and culture based books myself. In addition the fact that I went to 3 differant high schools in 3 differant states each with a differant curiculum (spelling?) has given me the oppurtunity to experience a wide variety of classes including one class called ancient studies an entire semister of which was spent on the peoples of central and south america which is how I know that while the term mesoamerican defines a region (which I have never denied) it is also used in a historical context when referancing pre-colombian tribes of central and south america. And I would like to point out that in no way is your word more valid then mine.
On the contrary, I was not assuming anything, merely responding to your own statement that people need to do more research than spend a brief time on Wiki.
It makes no sense to label the Nasca, Mocha, Chimu, et al with Central America uless someone moved Peru north since I last looked at a map.
You will be telling me that the Sumerians are ancient North Africans next.
There are plenty more
Note in the last example the use of the word AND
MesoAmerican AND South American
The concept of the transformation of the shaman is well documented in Mesoamerica and South America, and is demonstrated in the context of the Olmec through
my emphasis.
It matters not a jot in the greater scheme of things and rather than being arrogant am realistic that my powers of persuassion are not so great. I rather suspect that you have missed the conjunctive in your entire seminar or the lecturer was also in error.
I am still to find any evidence of the Incas being Mesoamericans.
Just because you fail to see or find something dosen't mean it's not there, or do you think atoms don't exist. Post as many links as you like, you cannot disprove that mesoamerican is not a term used when discussing pre-colombian peoples and because you cannot disprove it it is your word against mine and I have seen absolutly nothing that would indicate that your word is more valid then mine. And as far as the arrogant issue by stating that you've done your own personal research (implying that you know more then I do about the subject) and it is that basis which makes you right and I'm wrong is what was arrogant.
Well I must admit I have better things to do to trawl through Quetzalcoatl knows how many Google hits just to find someone that actually agrees with you Warboss.
It isn't my word against yours, it is your word against academia.
I also have better things to do than talk to a brick wall
nighty night sleep tight
Also you'll note that the quote you posted is using the word mesoamerica in the geographic context of the word. I fail to see how that disproves that it's also used in a historical context as a referance to a cultural group.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you have better things to do I suggest you do them instead of wasting my time providing links to pages that don't even disprove what I've said.
So, ignoring this silly fight about what counts as a Mesoamerican culture (thougb my money's on "just cultures in Mesoamerica," based on 10 minutes on Google Scholar).
How about the early Sassanids?
I know somebody said Persia, but I doubt they meant the Sassanid period. Proud warrior culture, scary religious persecution, sacred fire as an easy symbol. Also, cataphracts (Terminators?), elephants (Dreads?, Land Raiders?), scorpions and onagers (Whirlwinds? Predators?) and elite foot archers (Devastators?). Weak infantry on the whole, but you could do a bike army that didn't use the "steppe horseman" aesthetic.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Also you'll note that the quote you posted is using the word mesoamerica in the geographic context of the word. I fail to see how that disproves that it's also used in a historical context as a referance to a cultural group.
Because Mesoamerica =/= Chile and Peru.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:If you have better things to do I suggest you do them instead of wasting my time providing links to pages that don't even disprove what I've said.
"I'm right because you haven't proven me wrong" is a pretty weak position.
Have you considered a Celtic theme though? Lots of excellent lore and stories behind them and some incredible names throughout. Imagery could be very strong too with symbols etc.
All joking aside (and I didn't intend to insult), you probably have much more to contribute as far as Celtic symbols and imagery are concerned. These could be on shoulder pads, banners, etc.
I was actually thinking of an army based on banshees or spirit hosts from the fantasy side of Warhammer.The spirits could be summoned marines like the Legion of the Damned or on the chaos side...summoned demons. Heavy emphasis on magic with new spells for either Librarians or Sorcerors.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Also you'll note that the quote you posted is using the word mesoamerica in the geographic context of the word. I fail to see how that disproves that it's also used in a historical context as a referance to a cultural group.
Because Mesoamerica =/= Chile and Peru.
Learn to read.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
If you have better things to do I suggest you do them instead of wasting my time providing links to pages that don't even disprove what I've said.
"I'm right because you haven't proven me wrong" is a pretty weak position.
Good thing that my position is more like "I'm not wrong because you haven't proven me wrong".
Still waiting for you to prove that my comment was made in the context you think it was. I doubt you can and so you owe me an apology but that's ok I'll wait untill you fess up.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Also you'll note that the quote you posted is using the word mesoamerica in the geographic context of the word. I fail to see how that disproves that it's also used in a historical context as a referance to a cultural group.
Because Mesoamerica =/= Chile and Peru.
Learn to read.
That's just silly. I know how to read. How would we be communicating otherwise?
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
If you have better things to do I suggest you do them instead of wasting my time providing links to pages that don't even disprove what I've said.
"I'm right because you haven't proven me wrong" is a pretty weak position.
Good thing that my position is more like "I'm not wrong because you haven't proven me wrong".
That's the same thing. If you're not wrong, you're probably right. But you are wrong. You've been shown maps. Just move on.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Still waiting for you to prove that my comment was made in the context you think it was. I doubt you can and so you owe me an apology but that's ok I'll wait untill you fess up.
Trying to move the goalposts isn't making your case.
You're trying to weasel out of your original statement now, even after originally trying to defend it by claiming that people that live in Chile and Peru are Mesoamericans.
Also you'll note that the quote you posted is using the word mesoamerica in the geographic context of the word. I fail to see how that disproves that it's also used in a historical context as a referance to a cultural group.
Because Mesoamerica =/= Chile and Peru.
Learn to read.
That's just silly. I know how to read. How would we be communicating otherwise?
Ok fine, improve your reading comprehension.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
If you have better things to do I suggest you do them instead of wasting my time providing links to pages that don't even disprove what I've said.
"I'm right because you haven't proven me wrong" is a pretty weak position.
Good thing that my position is more like "I'm not wrong because you haven't proven me wrong".
That's the same thing. If you're not wrong, you're probably right. But you are wrong. You've been shown maps. Just move on.
Explain to me how a map proves that the term mesoamerican isn't a cultural referance when discussing pre-colombian peoples in addition (note I've never said that it wasen't used as a geographic referance and have stated this a number of times).
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Still waiting for you to prove that my comment was made in the context you think it was. I doubt you can and so you owe me an apology but that's ok I'll wait untill you fess up.
Trying to move the goalposts isn't making your case.
You're trying to weasel out of your original statement now, even after originally trying to defend it by claiming that people that live in Chile and Peru are Mesoamericans.
Oh I'm trying to weasel out of my original statement? tell me have I retracted what I said? no! have I said anything to the contrary of my original statement? no! so trying to slip your petty and immature insults into your responses because of your feth up isn't going to work.
Your the one who can't man up and admit that you where wrong by saying my statement was ignorant because you can't understand what context someone is talking in. So before you say my statements are ignorant or even suggest that I'm trying to weasel out of my original statement which i haven't done you need to pull your head out of your ass and get off your self ritchous high horse and realise that you are not as smart as you seem to think.
Now this is just getting silly... honestly, just drop the subject all together, we don't need to argue about petty things and believe me this is quite petty. Drop it and just move on to the original topic.
How about the Isrealites in Egypt? Parting of seas?
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Explain to me how a map proves that the term mesoamerican isn't a cultural referance when discussing pre-colombian peoples in addition (note I've never said that it wasen't used as a geographic referance and have stated this a number of times).
Right, but the Inca aren't Mesoamerican. You keep missing that point.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Your the one who can't man up and admit that you where wrong by saying my statement was ignorant because you can't understand what context someone is talking in. So before you say my statements are ignorant or even suggest that I'm trying to weasel out of my original statement which i haven't done you need to pull your head out of your ass and get off your self ritchous high horse and realise that you are not as smart as you seem to think.
I'd really clean up my grammar and spelling before I insulted someone's intelligence.
Anyway, the fact remains that the Inca are culturally distinct from the Mesoamerican civilizations and there isn't enough yelling in the world to change it. I'm sorry you're so mad about this. To make the point for a final time.
Where does it say Inca on this map of Mesoamerican civilations (cultures, if you will)?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
bigmek35 wrote:so sad when a thread turns to a flame war cuase of other cultures
I think the "flaming" is pretty one-sided.
I haven't insulted anyone, and I'm pretty much over this thread at this point. I've studied this subject myself, as have a few other people who have posted in this thread who don't apparently enjoy beating their head against a wall as I do, and it irked me to see such a blatant disregard for the history of a pretty awesome civilization.
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Now this is just getting silly... honestly, just drop the subject all together, we don't need to argue about petty things and believe me this is quite petty. Drop it and just move on to the original topic.
How about the Isrealites in Egypt? Parting of seas?
The actual disagreement itself is neither silly nor petty. Given that the descendants of the peoples under discussion may care to differ with you on that score.
That it has gone on so long is howerver rather unfortunate and imho you are totally right in wanting to get back on topic.
Rather than the parting of the Red Sea or rather as well as, the various plagues offer a good deal of imagery for some interesting fluff and iconography.
Angels of Death, Pascal Lambs, Rivers of Blood etc.
Maybe not the plague of Boils, sounds too Chaosy Anyways good call
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Now this is just getting silly... honestly, just drop the subject all together, we don't need to argue about petty things and believe me this is quite petty. Drop it and just move on to the original topic.
How about the Isrealites in Egypt? Parting of seas?
The actual disagreement itself is neither silly nor petty. Given that the descendants of the peoples under discussion may care to differ with you on that score.
That it has gone on so long is howerver rather unfortunate and imho you are totally right in wanting to get back on topic.
Rather than the parting of the Red Sea or rather as well as, the various plagues offer a good deal of imagery for some interesting fluff and iconography.
Angels of Death, Pascal Lambs, Rivers of Blood etc.
Maybe not the plague of Boils, sounds too Chaosy Anyways good call
Unless the OP plans on making a renegade chapter, the boils could work.
There's also the frogs, insects, perpetual darkness...
Also has anyone read Asterix and Obelix? Gauls could work as well as Normans
bigmek35 wrote:so sad when a thread turns to a flame war cuase of other cultures
I think the "flaming" is pretty one-sided.
I haven't insulted anyone, and I'm pretty much over this thread at this point. I've studied this subject myself, as have a few other people who have posted in this thread who don't apparently enjoy beating their head against a wall as I do, and it irked me to see such a blatant disregard for the history of a pretty awesome civilization.
i am just saying its sad what hapend to this thread. I am not calling any names on this but in real term this is a flame war
There has been no flame war
Warboss has disagreed with others and myself, and I have to say that I have at no time felt insulted, nor I hope has Warboss.
It certainly was not my intention.
Asterix and Obelix would be fun to do. Who was the druid chap he would be the equivalent of a Njal Stormcaller.
Termies in blue and white stripes?
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Asterix and Obelix would be fun to do. Who was the druid chap he would be the equivalent of a Njal Stormcaller.
Termies in blue and white stripes?
Getafix, I think was his name. I think it would be a great idea! Close Combat troops, SW -esque feasts. Although the Invincibility potion would be a little over-powered if you ask me...
Vatican Gaurd Bright and shiny, and would bring a nice pop instead of gloomy and dark. Have a kinda Fantasy Empire feel. It would be interesting to see marines pull this off. Very flambouant and regimented with all infantry, very colorful.
On a side note this would be awesome to see a I.G. player do with empire models.
I'll go with ancient Celts too. If you've seen the Slaine comics then go with the style from there. Druids for Librarians, power spears, plaid, big moustaches, helmets decorated with horns, wings, wheels and other crests. Lots to work with.
Or what about an Ancient Chinese one based on the "The Three Kingdoms". LuBu is screaming for a Terminator Conversion your paint job would need to be spectacular.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:So I enjoy making Space Marine chapters and basing them off of differant cultures even if I don't make models for the chapter (most often I'll make at least 1). I've made quiet a few chapters but I'd like some suggestions on cultures that have existed throughout history that I could research and turn into a chapter. I'm not looking for themes or ideas on how the chapters could be made just cultures.
Also here are cultures I've already done.
Maori/Samoan/Polynesian
Russian Cossack
Native American
Aztec/Mayan
Chinese
Egyptian
Here are cultures suggested that I'll be doing so far
Zulu
Spanish Conquistadors
Tuareg
And cultures that won't be done as they are already popular or used
Templars or Knights of any kind
Mongols/huns
Greece/romans
Would Thousdand Sons cover Egytian?
And aren't the Imperial/Crimson Fists generally given Spanish-esque names?
not strictly a culture i suppose, but what about cowboys?
Bikes as Troops. No chain swords, dual wielding pistols throughout (maybe some sort of twin-linked Chapter Tactic)
or Pirates? Short range attacks (pistols and CCW, the occasional blunderbuss or shotgun type weapon). Open topped Rhinos as a special trasnport. i suppose the ideal trasnport for this "culture" woudl be somethign lilke a DE Raider, but scaled up to carry marines.
Praxiss wrote:
Would Thousdand Sons cover Egytian?
They have an egyptian theme but they don't cover all the styles and fashions of ancient Egypt so there is room for another Egyptian themed army, particularly a loyalist one.
And aren't the Imperial/Crimson Fists generally given Spanish-esque names?
The Crimson Fists are, the Imperial Fists make use of many cultures including German and Asian.
not strictly a culture i suppose, but what about cowboys?
Bikes as Troops. No chain swords, dual wielding pistols throughout (maybe some sort of twin-linked Chapter Tactic)
19th century Western American could be considered a culture. Chainswords could be replaced by sabres or big bowie type knives.
You could do Zodiac marines - 12 (or 13!) companies strong every company has a badge based on a Zodiac symbol, could be lead by chapter master Orion, and company captains can take thier names from other great constellations that arnt themselves in the Zodiac. Could have a combined Greco-Roman and Babylonian feel too it. lots of Psykers (Astrologers!)
Could also base it on the Chinese Zodiac, to go witha Chinese feel.
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Spanish Conquistador marines, who specialize in conquering foul Xenos and taking all their gold.
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Etruscan Marines - pseudo Greco-Roman marines, but in Chariots, and with naked ladies painted all over the place!
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Hittite Marines - for when you need that bronze age feel. Fall before the feet of the Storm-God Emperor!
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Alexander the Great Marines - okay, its Greco Roman, sure - but imagine a huge army of horse back mounted (or better yet, THUNDER HORSE mounted!) crested marines following their Chapter Master on a glorious crusade to the edge of the explored regions in the Galaxy, and beyond, into the far eastern fringe, where even the emperors light does not shine.
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Tribes of Israel marines- for those with a biblical bend - l'chaim! Praise for the one true God-Emperor! Stone tablets every where!
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Papal Marines- Swiss guard of the future! Also, Inqusitors!
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[on a related note] Italian renaissance Marines (a good fit for the upcomming Grey Knights, IMO, since you can represent the Inqusitiors as the local city state citizen militia & hired mercenaries, and the grey knights themselves as the cities richer citizens arming themselves out with the best arms and armor Western Europe can provide. Mose of the Italian city states had AWESOME heraldry, either civic badges or the badged of ruling families - lots of good stuff there.)
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French Marines (or Charlemagne marines)- Hitler made it his priority to take over France because he viewed them as the most militant state in Europe, and a real threat. Show any Nazi fan boys how WWII could have played out if the french leadership hadnt been so hell bent on infighting as to not get anything done. Or go with the dark age precursor of France, the Franks and still crush Germans in the form of Pagan Saxons. Make the God Emperors light shine over the heathen and the infidel!
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Byzantine Marines - a combination of Charlemagne marines, and the Alexander the Great marines, but with added bureaucracy and a penchant for using spies and crafty technology.
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Mad Scientist marines - because i'm pretty sure that one really hasnt been done. Ad-mech heavy force, here we come!
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Venture Brothers marines - because I love venture brothers, and Dr. Venture would make a great inquisitor, and Brock a great Space marine assuming you have your eye on the new GK codex.
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Porno marines - the NSFW idea for if you're a chaos marine player. Now where did my thread about bib boobed Tau girls go... But remember, its all consensual!
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Librarian marines. Like the people who work in your local library librarian - tell the tales of their unchronicled glories in the battle field.
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Love is a battlefeild marines - AKA Black Templars.
How about an army of overweight, uneducated gun-nuts.
Be sure to include in the fluff that they exist only on a diet of hamburgers and freedom fries, and travel from world to world blowing everything up while exclaiming loudly how much better they are than everyone else.
Fearspect wrote:How about an army of overweight, uneducated gun-nuts.
Be sure to include in the fluff that they exist only on a diet of hamburgers and freedom fries, and travel from world to world blowing everything up while exclaiming loudly how much better they are than everyone else.
Don't know about you guys, but I could totally see 16th Century Japan in a chapter.
Power Katanas. Hell yeah.
@Ghyslain Xaroit: Aren't the Thousand Sons pretty egyptian looking?
Just ignore that then.
I'm sure you'll be forgiven.
nonetheless.
He would look amazing.
