So I was thinking about science things the other day, and I came to the realization that Terra makes no sense. In order for the oceans to all boil away, you need one of two things; Immense heat, or a lack of atmosphere. Both of these things would make the planet incompatible to human life, especially since GW implies that it still has an atmosphere, as well as a large population that walks around unprotected from the elements. Also, the amount of water vapor in the air would be tremendous, and probably create some interesting atmospheric activities, if not create more pressure that would crush people. (Similar to Venus.)
Yeah, yeah, I know, it is Sci Fi and all that, and to tell you the truth, I don't really care that it doesn't make a lot of sense.(There is quite a bit of that in the universe) I just figured that I would point it out and see what you guys thought about it.
Well theres one thing that can explain every single scientific inconsistency you just mentioned and any other anyone could conceive.
Magic ...
seriously ... you can pretty much anything with warp power, and explain everything and anything with it.
The water might be in the pipes...
The entire surface is a massive city.
Cities have pipes.
The water might be there.
The cities are most likely covered from the atmosphere
Isn't there about five times the entire volume of Earth worth of water in the Oort cloud? Given that the only way it makes any sense for the oceans to be gone is if the powers that be wanted them gone, perhaps to make room.
The Ultramarines have willed Terra be spared. In their fear of the Ultramarines, the Chaos Gods have erected a psychic barrier over the planet to protect it.
Anyway, this is probably just an oversight as GW aren't scientists.
Technically, the terran oceans are still in some places.
Terra is covered by one massive city and the water is basically in the basement with the city in these areas supported by stilts.
Terra was still a, realitilvly, pristine planet when horus wrecked the place. there were still oceans and open land in some areas. Cities had covered the polar ice caps and mountains.
Horus basically destroyed any natural plant and animal life that remained. the Oceans were largely vaporized by the Bombardments.
some of that water might have escaped into space, but it would have condensed eventually.
Well take into account the massive amounts of pollution. Think the green-house effect to the utter extreme. I imagine that could play real havoc with the oceans and atmosphere. Perhaps it is to blame.
Grey Templar wrote:Terra(or any Hive planet for that matter) does have Pollution problems, but they have Atmospheric Processors for that.
all those nasty pollutants can be harvested and used for things.
In the case of normal Imperial planets yes. But that covers Hive-Cities, not Terra. Unless directly countered in fluff, this is my view on the matter. I don't mean to say any other view is wrong, it is simply the solution I think most viable.
Why would Terra be any different from other hive cities? Sure its over crowded... but its also beside Mars, and will have the benefit of the best tech and skilled technicians in the Imperium (for what that's worth
Mars keeps much to themselves (or am I too focused on the HH novels?), and think about it. Hive-Cities are described as being impossibly large by today's standards. Now take that to an ENTIRE PLANET. Its mind-boggling, and to say that systems that are designed for individual cities wouldn't be overloaded when tasked with scrubbing an entire planet's atmosphere is a bit of a stretch for me. Just adding more may not work.
From what I can remember in Tales of Heresy, that anthology of short stories with the World Eaters, and other stuff...
In the story The Last Church, didn't they mention the Marianas trench, one of the deepest (I say one of to cover my tracks, I don't actually know if it IS the deepest) points on our planet, is at that point known as the marianas gorge? as the oceans have boiled away, and it's left it more as a canyon rather than a underwater trench?
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:From what I can remember in Tales of Heresy, that anthology of short stories with the World Eaters, and other stuff...
In the story The Last Church, didn't they mention the Marianas trench, one of the deepest (I say one of to cover my tracks, I don't actually know if it IS the deepest) points on our planet, is at that point known as the marianas gorge? as the oceans have boiled away, and it's left it more as a canyon rather than a underwater trench?
Actually we know nothing 'bout what happened to Earth during DAoT and Old Night.There might be large amount of terraforming -incluing creation of new continents -and don't forget , marianas is just a little scratch on appleskin compared to planet itself and oceans is thinner than layer of wax on fruit.
Also - there's no clear understanding that can happen if ocean waters contact liquid mantle, there is possibilities that much of water can be chemically bound.
IMHO anyway after HH Terra could be dead world for millions of years(or forevr) if not rebuilt by Imperium.
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:From what I can remember in Tales of Heresy, that anthology of short stories with the World Eaters, and other stuff...
In the story The Last Church, didn't they mention the Marianas trench, one of the deepest (I say one of to cover my tracks, I don't actually know if it IS the deepest) points on our planet, is at that point known as the marianas gorge? as the oceans have boiled away, and it's left it more as a canyon rather than a underwater trench?
Actually we know nothing 'bout what happened to Earth during DAoT and Old Night.There might be large amount of terraforming -incluing creation of new continents -and don't forget , marianas is just a little scratch on appleskin compared to planet itself and oceans is thinner than layer of wax on fruit.
Also - there's no clear understanding that can happen if ocean waters contact liquid mantle, there is possibilities that much of water can be chemically bound.
IMHO anyway after HH Terra could be dead world for millions of years(or forevr) if not rebuilt by Imperium.
Yeah there is nothing describing what happened during DAoT or the Old night, I was just referring to before the great crusade. The emporer also built that massive fortress out of the himalayans too so I doubt there's any terraforming that couldn't be done
Its slowly becoming blue again of course this is because they are spending alot of time trying to get the water back from all the places it imported the water too.
Asherian Command wrote:Its slowly becoming blue again of course this is because they are spending alot of time trying to get the water back from all the places it imported the water too.
jadebullet wrote: Immense heat, or a lack of atmosphere. Both of these things would make the planet incompatible to human life, especially since GW implies that it still has an atmosphere, as well as a large population that walks around unprotected from the elements..
Major fluff error, Terra is a hive city, every planet that has hive cities is an awful hellhole of pollution, waste and deserts, just look at Necromunda. The vast majority of Terran population live in the palace so are protected from the elements, add to the fact that most of population is heavily augmented to perform their work in the administum ( as seen in all the art).
I'm not sure for the 41st millenium, but during the HH, there was still water on Earth IIRC. True, it was always described as being heavily polluted and such, but it was still there. And the human population was still able to survive outside the cities. Again, it was relatively dangerous for their health on the long run and they could constantly smell pollutants in the air, but life outside the hive zones was still possible.
jadebullet wrote: Immense heat, or a lack of atmosphere. Both of these things would make the planet incompatible to human life, especially since GW implies that it still has an atmosphere, as well as a large population that walks around unprotected from the elements..
Major fluff error, Terra is a hive city, every planet that has hive cities is an awful hellhole of pollution, waste and deserts, just look at Necromunda. The vast majority of Terran population live in the palace so are protected from the elements, add to the fact that most of population is heavily augmented to perform their work in the administum ( as seen in all the art).
So are there any 'nice' planets in 40k? Because it was to my understanding that every planet had at least one hive city to serve as a Capitol. If there are inhospitable wastelands and jungle death worlds, are there any places in between? you know, a hospitable forest with bunnies? And lemonade? With no undead servitors or wires sticking out of you? That would be nice....
jadebullet wrote: Immense heat, or a lack of atmosphere. Both of these things would make the planet incompatible to human life, especially since GW implies that it still has an atmosphere, as well as a large population that walks around unprotected from the elements..
Major fluff error, Terra is a hive city, every planet that has hive cities is an awful hellhole of pollution, waste and deserts, just look at Necromunda. The vast majority of Terran population live in the palace so are protected from the elements, add to the fact that most of population is heavily augmented to perform their work in the administum ( as seen in all the art).
So are there any 'nice' planets in 40k? Because it was to my understanding that every planet had at least one hive city to serve as a Capitol. If there are inhospitable wastelands and jungle death worlds, are there any places in between? you know, a hospitable forest with bunnies? And lemonade? With no undead servitors or wires sticking out of you? That would be nice....
There are planets with bunnies and flowers in the IoM.
There are agri-worlds, where life should not really be hard for most of the citizens. Think of a sunny planet entirely covered with wheat fields, fruit trees, fluffy space sheeps, etc. Doesn't it almost sound like a disney film?
And there are also paradise worlds, which are specially designed to be the private gardens of the Imperial Nobility. These worlds are terraformed to look calm, peaceful and relaxing for rich humans. I bet there are bunnies on these worlds too. But these bunnies would ask you if you would like anything to drink or if the bath is hot enough for you.
Asherian Command wrote:Its slowly becoming blue again of course this is because they are spending alot of time trying to get the water back from all the places it imported the water too.
In Mechanicum, it mentions that the atmosphere on Mars was burned away, so they remade it. They could have done the same to earth after an explosion large enough to burn away the atmosphere destroys the Oceans.
im2randomghgh wrote:In Mechanicum, it mentions that the atmosphere on Mars was burned away, so they remade it. They could have done the same to earth after an explosion large enough to burn away the atmosphere destroys the Oceans.
It wasn't just one explosion it was thousands of them.
The better answer would be because Matt Ward is the Omni-God of WH40K and has the ability to ruin everything and anything he touches, including but not limited to the Earth.
im2randomghgh wrote:The better answer would be because STOP USING THIS JOKE has the ability to ruin everything and anything he touches, including but not limited to the Earth.
Meh. Not really, This is why I usually believe that posts like this are quite annoying as they have nothing to do with anything.
The Horus Hersey was what made terra what we know of it today. It was originally blue before the horus hersey now its a sadden slag and destroyed image of its former self. ITs a sad ending for the cradle world of humanity. The planet that we once called home was slaughtered by its own race it held.
im2randomghgh wrote:The better answer would be because STOP USING THIS JOKE has the ability to ruin everything and anything he touches, including but not limited to the Earth.
Meh. Not really, This is why I usually believe that posts like this are quite annoying as they have nothing to do with anything.
The Horus Hersey was what made terra what we know of it today. It was originally blue before the horus hersey now its a sadden slag and destroyed image of its former self. ITs a sad ending for the cradle world of humanity. The planet that we once called home was slaughtered by its own race it held.
It was burnt away during the Unification Wars, KNOW YOUR FLUFF!
im2randomghgh wrote:The better answer would be because STOP USING THIS JOKE has the ability to ruin everything and anything he touches, including but not limited to the Earth.
Meh. Not really, This is why I usually believe that posts like this are quite annoying as they have nothing to do with anything.
The Horus Hersey was what made terra what we know of it today. It was originally blue before the horus hersey now its a sadden slag and destroyed image of its former self. ITs a sad ending for the cradle world of humanity. The planet that we once called home was slaughtered by its own race it held.
It was burnt away during the Unification Wars, KNOW YOUR FLUFF!
You just made a thread asking how long the average life span of a/the T'au is.
A little bit hipocritical don't you think?
im2randomghgh wrote:The better answer would be because STOP USING THIS JOKE has the ability to ruin everything and anything he touches, including but not limited to the Earth.
Meh. Not really, This is why I usually believe that posts like this are quite annoying as they have nothing to do with anything.
The Horus Hersey was what made terra what we know of it today. It was originally blue before the horus hersey now its a sadden slag and destroyed image of its former self. ITs a sad ending for the cradle world of humanity. The planet that we once called home was slaughtered by its own race it held.
It was burnt away during the Unification Wars, KNOW YOUR FLUFF!
You just made a thread asking how long the average life span of a/the T'au is.
A little bit hipocritical don't you think?
The difference is I didn't state any misinformation.
im2randomghgh wrote:The difference is I didn't state any misinformation.
Can you provide a source to prove that you didn't? GW cannon gets dodgy a lot. There could easily be 2 conflicting sources or they could both be correct and the environmental damage was repaired in between the Unification Wars and the Siege of Terra. EDIT: Overall it's not really worth saying people are outright wrong.
im2randomghgh wrote:The difference is I didn't state any misinformation.
Can you provide a source to prove that you didn't?
GW cannon gets dodgy a lot. There could easily be 2 conflicting sources or they could both be correct and the environmental damage was repaired inbetween the Unification Wars and the Siege of Terra.
im2randomghgh wrote:The difference is I didn't state any misinformation.
Can you provide a source to prove that you didn't?
GW cannon gets dodgy a lot. There could easily be 2 conflicting sources or they could both be correct and the environmental damage was repaired in between the Unification Wars and the Siege of Terra.
2 conflicting theories...
Possibly started in the Unification Wars then worsened over time and was finished off by Horus...
A combination so to speak...
Mr Nobody wrote:Answer is, earth was in a bad state from the unification wars, and the horus heresy made worse.
Good point. It makes sense.
The Emperor starts the job with the Unification wars and the industrialization of Terra in preparation for the Great Crusade, and Horus delivers the final blow to our ecosystem with his invasion.
jadebullet wrote: Immense heat, or a lack of atmosphere. Both of these things would make the planet incompatible to human life, especially since GW implies that it still has an atmosphere, as well as a large population that walks around unprotected from the elements..
Major fluff error, Terra is a hive city, every planet that has hive cities is an awful hellhole of pollution, waste and deserts, just look at Necromunda. The vast majority of Terran population live in the palace so are protected from the elements, add to the fact that most of population is heavily augmented to perform their work in the administum ( as seen in all the art).
So are there any 'nice' planets in 40k? Because it was to my understanding that every planet had at least one hive city to serve as a Capitol. If there are inhospitable wastelands and jungle death worlds, are there any places in between? you know, a hospitable forest with bunnies? And lemonade? With no undead servitors or wires sticking out of you? That would be nice....
A single hive city has a population of near billions, while a graded agriworld has a population of 15,000 to 1,000,000 a fraction of the size. A large amount of IoM worlds have a single space port/defense area then villages and small towns spread everywhere. IoM has worlds ranging the entire spectum, from dinosaur infested jungle worlds owned by space marine chapters, worlds of cathedrals run by the Ecclesiarchy, to worlds of factorys and thick smoke owned by Mars
I have a question regarding Terra: How long in height and dept goes Terran Hive City?
We know that Imperial Palace is on top of Himalayas ( about 7000 km ) and I really don't know how deep underground they go. I heard stories about libraries so big that you can spent all you life and never see the end of the library ( and average Human in 40k lives about 120 years ).
Brother Coa wrote:I have a question regarding Terra: How long in height and dept goes Terran Hive City?
We know that Imperial Palace is on top of Himalayas ( about 7000 km ) and I really don't know how deep underground they go. I heard stories about libraries so big that you can spent all you life and never see the end of the library ( and average Human in 40k lives about 120 years ).
This is a new tower design in Dubai. The shape can theoretically stay structurally sound at incredible heights. This would be a small spire in 40k.
Brother Coa wrote:I have a question regarding Terra: How long in height and dept goes Terran Hive City?
We know that Imperial Palace is on top of Himalayas ( about 7000 km ) and I really don't know how deep underground they go. I heard stories about libraries so big that you can spent all you life and never see the end of the library ( and average Human in 40k lives about 120 years ).
The Imperial Palace covers nearly the entire northern hemispere, The Palace is divided into Inner and Outer Palace. It is described as "an endless, black hive of forbidden technology and subterranean passages delving deep within the bowels of the planet". The Sanctum Imperialis does not have an accurately described place in fluff.
The Forbidden Fortress is built throughout the mountain range of the Himalayas. A single peak is carved to form the Chamber of the Astronomican.
Also saying the average human life is about 120 years is either very wrong or misleading. The population of the IoM live in vastly different worlds from each other, a citizen of an agri-world will have a life expectancy similar to our own, while a primative human on a feral world will live for 30 at a push and a high ranking member of the Adaptus Terra will live for hundreds of years. Just remember only the rich and powerful live for along time, most humans are either worked to death or give their lives to defend the IoM.
jadebullet wrote: Immense heat, or a lack of atmosphere. Both of these things would make the planet incompatible to human life, especially since GW implies that it still has an atmosphere, as well as a large population that walks around unprotected from the elements..
Major fluff error, Terra is a hive city, every planet that has hive cities is an awful hellhole of pollution, waste and deserts, just look at Necromunda. The vast majority of Terran population live in the palace so are protected from the elements, add to the fact that most of population is heavily augmented to perform their work in the administum ( as seen in all the art).
So are there any 'nice' planets in 40k? Because it was to my understanding that every planet had at least one hive city to serve as a Capitol. If there are inhospitable wastelands and jungle death worlds, are there any places in between? you know, a hospitable forest with bunnies? And lemonade? With no undead servitors or wires sticking out of you? That would be nice....
Of course, there are paradise worlds, garden worlds, the planets of Ultramar (when they're not getting attacked by Tyranids, Tau, and M'kar the thrice born).
Melkhiordarkblade wrote:I think when they say the oceans boiled away,they mean to natural surface water.
Propably plenty in caverns beneath the surface that gets chem treated like hell.
Or they harvest oxygen and hydrogen and make water that way,then recycle the hell out of it.
Terra is probably fine to live in,just don't expect to enjoy the country air or green fields any time soon.
Its possible. Don't forget some of the water was also brought to the other planets. The only earth like planets in sol are the Moons of Saturn, Jupiter and Pluto's moon.
I think we had this thread once before and came to the conclusion that boiling away the sea's was was pretty much impossible without rendering the planet lifeless so I guess this is under the jurisdiction of the rule of cool.
I think it is exaggerated. Because don't forgot the polar ice caps and antartica still exist and are not populated. Not only that but alot of the big landmasses might be populated but the world is slowly regenerating. Apparently its a shrine world so I think They are getting rid of excess population by moving them to the moons of Saturn.
I think the human population became so big that the planet's water is eternally cycled through the human machine. That means there isn't enough excess water to fill the oceans, we're always using it. I view "boiled away" as the words of an exagerated poet.
Mr Nobody wrote:I think the human population became so big that the planet's water is eternally cycled through the human machine. That means there isn't enough excess water to fill the oceans, we're always using it. I view "boiled away" as the words of an exagerated poet.
Grey Templar wrote:Fusion doesn't use water, but a Hydrogen isotope(deutrium. also the explosive in Bolter shells) which is commonly found in water.
no way they used the water up that way.
the Deutrium reserves of the planet are enough for several billion years of energy. even by 40k standards, that a long time.
You say "even by 40k standards" but consider the countless quadrillions (quintillions?) of bolter shells made on Terra BEFORE they started being made exclusively on FWs.
Grey Templar wrote:who says they need to import water and where is the evidence?
they just reclycle the water they currently have(where it came from is up to debate)
From the Wh40k Wikipedia: "Terra's oceans long ago boiled away due to the immense heat produced by having so many billions of people compressed onto one world. All liquid water to meet the population's needs is now delivered from orbit by freighters who take large ice-bearing comets from the outer Solar System and bring them into Terran orbit to be melted down and dispersed to the population."
A logical conclusion, large number of comets are consisting of Ice believe it or not. And they probably go to Kepler's belt ( witch is outer solar system where their is untold millions if not billions of comets ) and they take comet there and transport it to Terra.
Also, they can use Ice from Europa, it's solid Ice moon in orbit around Jupiter. With rumor that there is an entire ocean below.
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Asherian Command wrote:Because don't forgot the polar ice caps and antartica still exist and are not populated.
And I am pretty sure that ENTIRE planet s one big Hive City.
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Asherian Command wrote:Thats the thing they don't know how to terraform now....
Yes they do. Imperial nobility is constantly making garden worlds for their pleasure.
Given the advanced recycling used in Hive Cities and the enormous populations, this could easily be waved aside with fluff additions stating that it's tied up in the cities, or constantly being cleansed for use. Also, millions come to die on Terra daily. That's a lot of water influx.
Oceans boiling away? Not really, maybe if you orbital striked the planet or exterminatus.... but water can in theory disappear from a planet in a number of ways.
As stated before, become trapped in the human cycle, most (if not all) the water is consumed by humans and it isn't released back fast enough. The consumption exceeds the replenishment... Plus with the billions of people on the planet.... It seems very plausible.
Another theory that was stated before by Grey Templar
the atmosphere would become water logged and it would be nearly impossable for the water to remain in vapor form.
there would be eternal rain showers with the water evaporating almosty instantly upon hitting the ground.
got me thinking about a space documentary I heard a couple years ago. I found that theory! It happened with Venus, and I'm sure someone said this before. I think it's called the Hydronamic escape of Hydrogen, you can google that. Basically, the theory states (and this is my interpretation, go look on google if you want), that solar winds from the Sun can give enough energy to the hydrogen particles in the atmosphere to achieve escape velocity. This slowly releases the hydrogen into space. With no hydrogen, water molecules cannot be formed, and essentially the oceans have been "boiled" away by the sun.
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:As stated before, become trapped in the human cycle, most (if not all) the water is consumed by humans and it isn't released back fast enough. The consumption exceeds the replenishment... Plus with the billions of people on the planet.... It seems very plausible.
No, it is not possible, it is completely unrealistic, even for 40k!
If I got this theory right, it would mean that all the water on Earth has been trapped into human bodies right?
There are 1,3.10^19 liters of water on Earth. That means 13 000 000 000 000 000 000 of liters! 13 billions of billions liters of water.
A human body is made of 42 liters of water. Let's rise it to 50 liters to ease the calculations and to count the amount of water that is constantly being recycled.
(1,33.10^19) / 50 = 2,6.10^17
That's 260 millions of billions of humans on Terra. It sounds a bit too much...
Asherian Command wrote:I think it is exaggerated. Because don't forgot the polar ice caps and antartica still exist and are not populated. Not only that but alot of the big landmasses might be populated but the world is slowly regenerating. Apparently its a shrine world so I think They are getting rid of excess population by moving them to the moons of Saturn.
Well the South Pole at least is used as the Inquisitions headquarters, it's probably a continent-sized complex like the Imperial and Ecclesiarchical Palaces.
But yes if the oceans "boiled away" Antartica should have been the first to go. It's a contradiction and I think the only explanation is just fluff error.
The population of the earth will reach 7 billion this year, and we are already running out of fresh water. How bad would water consumption be when earth became a hive world?
Mr Nobody wrote:The population of the earth will reach 7 billion this year, and we are already running out of fresh water. How bad would water consumption be when earth became a hive world?
This is because only now we are developing technology to purify water. And why would that be a problem for galaxy span empire? If they can Terraform worlds then there is no problem in getting water to Terra.
Mr Nobody wrote:The population of the earth will reach 7 billion this year, and we are already running out of fresh water. How bad would water consumption be when earth became a hive world?
This is because only now we are developing technology to purify water. And why would that be a problem for galaxy span empire? If they can Terraform worlds then there is no problem in getting water to Terra.
I'm saying the population became so vast, that the earth's oceans have been completely consumed. Water is imported becasue we have exceded past the resources of the planet.
Water that is consumed is not destroyed. It just changes form, and eventually passes through the body via moisture leaving the body through various bodily functions (or just leaving the body via evaporation, such as the moisture you lose just by breathing due to the need to not have your mouth, throat, lungs, alveoli, etc. dry up).
The average person in a civilized country uses 450 liters of water a day. This water is not lost, but it must be recycled. There are 1,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 or so liters of water in the oceans alone. Assuming everyone used exactly the same amount of water as we do now (which is ludicrously inefficient, and does not match with 40k's fluff), the population would need to be 2,888,888,888,888,888,889 or more to use up all of the water in the oceans.
That number is about 10,000 or so times higher than the hive world with the highest known population (which was upwards of 10 trillion if I remember correctly). So yeah, even if we assume there's a hive world with 100 tillion people in it, Earth would STILL have had to have a population at LEAST one thousand times higher than this to use up all fo the water in the ocean.
And this does not count the amount of water in rivers, lakes, streams, aqueous rocks, or in the atmosphere.
Melissia wrote:Water that is consumed is not destroyed. It just changes form, and eventually passes through the body via moisture leaving the body through various bodily functions (or just leaving the body via evaporation, such as the moisture you lose just by breathing due to the need to not have your mouth, throat, lungs, alveoli, etc. dry up).
The average person in a civilized country uses 450 liters of water a day. This water is not lost, but it must be recycled. There are 1,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 or so liters of water in the oceans alone. Assuming everyone used exactly the same amount of water as we do now (which is ludicrously inefficient, and does not match with 40k's fluff), the population would need to be 2,888,888,888,888,888,889 or more to use up all of the water in the oceans.
That number is about 10,000 or so times higher than the hive world with the highest known population (which was upwards of 10 trillion if I remember correctly). So yeah, even if we assume there's a hive world with 100 tillion people in it, Earth would STILL have had to have a population at LEAST one thousand times higher than this to use up all fo the water in the ocean.
And this does not count the amount of water in rivers, lakes, streams, aqueous rocks, or in the atmosphere.
Yes... and yet, the planet would still basically have to be covered almost entirely by machines to use this much water.
What I'm trying to impress is that the amount of water on this planet is seriously unfathomably large. About 1.4×10^21 kilograms, a number that's pretty much too much for the human mind to really comprehend. It's measured in billions of cubic kilometers. And none of this water is used up, it's not gone when it's used, it just needs to be recycled.
"The oceans boiled away because of the heat from people living there"
now that is wrong and is definitly old fluff.
What. You dont think that with the factories, furnaces oven etc. required to sustain 100,000,000,000,000 people + their body heat would be that hot.
sry for having no question marks, my keyboard is a little off right now.
If it was hot enough to boil water at sea level, the planet would be a death world. It is more plausable that the seas were force evaporated so it could be used to support hive cities.
Melissia wrote:Or just history being re-written. Whatever wasn't being recycled was so polluted it probably wasn't considered water anymore.
Yer water is a pretty simple molecule and we have the technology to purify and seperate molecules already. No matter how polluted water is it can still be purified.
Grey Templar wrote:who says they need to import water and where is the evidence?
they just reclycle the water they currently have(where it came from is up to debate)
From the Wh40k Wikipedia: "Terra's oceans long ago boiled away due to the immense heat produced by having so many billions of people compressed onto one world. All liquid water to meet the population's needs is now delivered from orbit by freighters who take large ice-bearing comets from the outer Solar System and bring them into Terran orbit to be melted down and dispersed to the population."
A logical conclusion, large number of comets are consisting of Ice believe it or not. And they probably go to Kepler's belt ( witch is outer solar system where their is untold millions if not billions of comets ) and they take comet there and transport it to Terra.
Also, they can use Ice from Europa, it's solid Ice moon in orbit around Jupiter. With rumor that there is an entire ocean below.
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Asherian Command wrote:Because don't forgot the polar ice caps and antartica still exist and are not populated.
And I am pretty sure that ENTIRE planet s one big Hive City.
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Asherian Command wrote:Thats the thing they don't know how to terraform now....
Yes they do. Imperial nobility is constantly making garden worlds for their pleasure.
Not the entire planet is a huge hive, since the Imperial Palace is the size of a continent.
And they no longer know how to terraform, though they did during the GC. The garden worlds have to be verdant to begin with.
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Laodamia wrote:
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:As stated before, become trapped in the human cycle, most (if not all) the water is consumed by humans and it isn't released back fast enough. The consumption exceeds the replenishment... Plus with the billions of people on the planet.... It seems very plausible.
No, it is not possible, it is completely unrealistic, even for 40k!
If I got this theory right, it would mean that all the water on Earth has been trapped into human bodies right?
There are 1,3.10^19 liters of water on Earth. That means 13 000 000 000 000 000 000 of liters! 13 billions of billions liters of water.
A human body is made of 42 liters of water. Let's rise it to 50 liters to ease the calculations and to count the amount of water that is constantly being recycled.
(1,33.10^19) / 50 = 2,6.10^17
That's 260 millions of billions of humans on Terra. It sounds a bit too much...
Terra's population: 100,000,000,000,000, also your failing to account for the pools etc. of the nobility. And the fact that custodes are 2x bigger than humans (though that wouldn't make much of a difference), water used for cooling...so yeah, the majority would be in the human beings.
Maybe not all of the water is consumed, maybe there is still a lot of water beneath the hive city.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Not the entire planet is a huge hive, since the Imperial Palace is the size of a continent.
That's pretty much the entire planet.
im2randomghgh wrote:And they no longer know how to terraform, though they did during the GC. The garden worlds have to be verdant to begin with.
They still know how, there is no evidence to support that they don't know. And Terraforming is easy if you have the technology the Imperium have, only problem is that the Terraforming is that it may last for xxx years...
And besides, what do Tau know about Earth? None has ever been there...
that Hydrodynamic escape requires the Hydrogen to actually seperate from the Oxygen atoms(H2O is too heavy to escape)
no forces within the human body do that.
the only reason a machine would do that for industrial purposes would be to burn the hydrogen for something. guess what happens when you burn Hydrogen?...
the only Hydrogen escaping would be free Hydrogen in the atmosphere, not Hydrogen trapped as water.
Brother Coa wrote:Maybe not all of the water is consumed, maybe there is still a lot of water beneath the hive city.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Not the entire planet is a huge hive, since the Imperial Palace is the size of a continent.
That's pretty much the entire planet.
im2randomghgh wrote:And they no longer know how to terraform, though they did during the GC. The garden worlds have to be verdant to begin with.
They still know how, there is no evidence to support that they don't know. And Terraforming is easy if you have the technology the Imperium have, only problem is that the Terraforming is that it may last for xxx years...
And besides, what do Tau know about Earth? None has ever been there...
Did you REALLY just treat Fire Warrior as canon? In it a single fire warrior kills a greater daemon, and plus, it isn't 40k, it is GW, it doesn't deserve to be mentioned.
In Mechanicum it says that Terraformation technology is lost, and though BL isn't always canon, the Heresy books were for the most part.
Grey Templar wrote:that Hydrodynamic escape requires the Hydrogen to actually seperate from the Oxygen atoms(H2O is too heavy to escape)
no forces within the human body do that.
the only reason a machine would do that for industrial purposes would be to burn the hydrogen for something. guess what happens when you burn Hydrogen?...
the only Hydrogen escaping would be free Hydrogen in the atmosphere, not Hydrogen trapped as water.
Course not in the human body.... argh.... to the textbooks!!!!
Grey Templar wrote:that Hydrodynamic escape requires the Hydrogen to actually seperate from the Oxygen atoms(H2O is too heavy to escape)
no forces within the human body do that.
the only reason a machine would do that for industrial purposes would be to burn the hydrogen for something. guess what happens when you burn Hydrogen?...
the only Hydrogen escaping would be free Hydrogen in the atmosphere, not Hydrogen trapped as water.
Course not in the human body.... argh.... to the textbooks!!!!
...*sneers* Textbooks, the only thing I hate as much as Matt Ward...TO WIKIPEDIA! CUZ ITS JUST EASIER!
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:Maybe not all of the water is consumed, maybe there is still a lot of water beneath the hive city.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Not the entire planet is a huge hive, since the Imperial Palace is the size of a continent.
That's pretty much the entire planet.
They still know how, there is no evidence to support that they don't know. And Terraforming is easy if you have the technology the Imperium have, only problem is that the Terraforming is that it may last for xxx years...
And besides, what do Tau know about Earth? None has ever been there...
The big spot that covered 3/4 of the earth? The Imperial and Ecclesiarchal palaces. learn your fluff or die!
Grey Templar wrote:that Hydrodynamic escape requires the Hydrogen to actually seperate from the Oxygen atoms(H2O is too heavy to escape)
no forces within the human body do that.
the only reason a machine would do that for industrial purposes would be to burn the hydrogen for something. guess what happens when you burn Hydrogen?...
the only Hydrogen escaping would be free Hydrogen in the atmosphere, not Hydrogen trapped as water.
Course not in the human body.... argh.... to the textbooks!!!!
...*sneers* Textbooks, the only thing I hate as much as Matt Ward...TO WIKIPEDIA! CUZ ITS JUST EASIER!
Wikipedia is good for quick looking, but not reliable all the time, you want hard evidence, TEXTBOOKS!!!
although i do hate them..... other than proving things, the only thing they're good for is burning....
I think the population simply sucked all the water way for all the purposes humans use water. Yes, its a hive-world, other planets have hive cities, and still have water. But for the most part, those planets only sustain their own population. Terra, on the other hand, is constantly bombarded with pigrims who never leave. Either the water was consumed, or removed to make room.
im2randomghgh wrote:
The big spot that covered 3/4 of the earth? The Imperial and Ecclesiarchal palaces. learn your fluff or die!
Then what's covering the rest 1/4 of Earth smart ass?
You stated that the hive covers the entire earth-I just proved it doesn't. I. W. I. N.
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blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:that Hydrodynamic escape requires the Hydrogen to actually seperate from the Oxygen atoms(H2O is too heavy to escape)
no forces within the human body do that.
the only reason a machine would do that for industrial purposes would be to burn the hydrogen for something. guess what happens when you burn Hydrogen?...
the only Hydrogen escaping would be free Hydrogen in the atmosphere, not Hydrogen trapped as water.
Course not in the human body.... argh.... to the textbooks!!!!
...*sneers* Textbooks, the only thing I hate as much as Matt Ward...TO WIKIPEDIA! CUZ ITS JUST EASIER!
Wikipedia is good for quick looking, but not reliable all the time, you want hard evidence, TEXTBOOKS!!!
although i do hate them..... other than proving things, the only thing they're good for is burning....
It's more reliable than most internet sources, as the moderators fact-check, the links are checked, and, because of the community edit, more information can be added quicker, and without bias.
im2randomghgh wrote:
You stated that the hive covers the entire earth-I just proved it doesn't. I. W. I. N.
OME you are short sited.... If 3/4 of Terra IS Administatinum and Imperial palace then the rest 1/4 must be where Terra population live ( ordinary citizens cannot live in Imperial palace ). So yes, you have proven that entire surface of the Earth is just one big Hive City. So I. W. I. N. - thanks for proving my point
im2randomghgh wrote:
You stated that the hive covers the entire earth-I just proved it doesn't. I. W. I. N.
OME you are short sited.... If 3/4 of Terra IS Administatinum and Imperial palace then the rest 1/4 must be where Terra population live ( ordinary citizens cannot live in Imperial palace ). So yes, you have proven that entire surface of the Earth is just one big Hive City. So I. W. I. N. - thanks for proving my point
No, I proved that 1/4 is hive city. 1/4. Not the entire surface. Not sure how that can be interpreted as me proving your point...
In order for the oceans to boil away in the manner many of us probably imagine would have eliminated much of the atmosphere and caused much planetary distress that doesn't seem to be evident in the fluff.
The only way the water could be 'boiled' away without catastrophic damage would be if the water, over time, was cracked for energy.
Personally, I think it's possible that the water has been 'locked' up in the resident human population and the reclaimed waste is reprocessed and kept in a closed loop. Not to mention the teeming billions of pilgrims who come and go from Holy Terra taking precious water within them as they leave. Over time I would imagine this has had an effect.
Eh, I still don't htink the water is used up per se, but I would agree that it quite possibly is locked up in a system, perhaps it has been manually drained over many years, such as during the dark age of technology (in order to leave more surface space for construction of factories, laboratories, habitats, etc).
im2randomghgh wrote:
You stated that the hive covers the entire earth-I just proved it doesn't. I. W. I. N.
OME you are short sited.... If 3/4 of Terra IS Administatinum and Imperial palace then the rest 1/4 must be where Terra population live ( ordinary citizens cannot live in Imperial palace ). So yes, you have proven that entire surface of the Earth is just one big Hive City. So I. W. I. N. - thanks for proving my point
No, I proved that 1/4 is hive city. 1/4. Not the entire surface. Not sure how that can be interpreted as me proving your point...
the Palaces are still part of the massive hive city just like the White House is still part of D.C.
im2randomghgh wrote:
You stated that the hive covers the entire earth-I just proved it doesn't. I. W. I. N.
OME you are short sited.... If 3/4 of Terra IS Administatinum and Imperial palace then the rest 1/4 must be where Terra population live ( ordinary citizens cannot live in Imperial palace ). So yes, you have proven that entire surface of the Earth is just one big Hive City. So I. W. I. N. - thanks for proving my point
No, I proved that 1/4 is hive city. 1/4. Not the entire surface. Not sure how that can be interpreted as me proving your point...
the Palaces are still part of the massive hive city just like the White House is still part of D.C.
Not in this case, these palaces are essentially continents. There is the hive, then there is the palaces.
im2randomghgh wrote:
You stated that the hive covers the entire earth-I just proved it doesn't. I. W. I. N.
OME you are short sited.... If 3/4 of Terra IS Administatinum and Imperial palace then the rest 1/4 must be where Terra population live ( ordinary citizens cannot live in Imperial palace ). So yes, you have proven that entire surface of the Earth is just one big Hive City. So I. W. I. N. - thanks for proving my point
No, I proved that 1/4 is hive city. 1/4. Not the entire surface. Not sure how that can be interpreted as me proving your point...
Usualy when people say: "entire surface of the planet is covered in hive city" they really meant "entire surface of the planet is covered in buildings". And you are wrong again, in that case, 3/4 of the surface is Hive City and rest 1/4 are the state buildings. Imperial palace is on Himalayas, Chamber of the Astronomican is also there, Hall of the Astronomican is in Africa, Inquisition is beneath Antarctica, Navigator's Quarter is on the massive island ( Greenland maybe ? ), Ecclesiarchal Palace covers almost all of Terra's southern continent ( Australia ? ), Scholastia Psykana is somewhere in the Pacific, Hall of Judgment is somewhere south of India and for the rest of governmental building is unknown. The rest of Earth is part of the greatest Hive City in the Imperium ( much larger than just 1/4 of the planet surface ). Even if we take that Imperial palace covers all of Asia and Astronomican Hall all of Africa it still lives the Hive City that is great in scale in comparison to the governmental buildings.
I was thinking the whole time that you where stating that not entire surface of the Earth is covered in buildings.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Not in this case, these palaces are essentially continents. There is the hive, then there is the palaces.
That is true...but Hive City is essentially on the place where there was oceans once. And oceans covered 70% of Earth's surface.
And beside, you are Tau arguing with two Humans about the Earth And again, what do Tau know about Earth?
im2randomghgh wrote:
You stated that the hive covers the entire earth-I just proved it doesn't. I. W. I. N.
OME you are short sited.... If 3/4 of Terra IS Administatinum and Imperial palace then the rest 1/4 must be where Terra population live ( ordinary citizens cannot live in Imperial palace ). So yes, you have proven that entire surface of the Earth is just one big Hive City. So I. W. I. N. - thanks for proving my point
No, I proved that 1/4 is hive city. 1/4. Not the entire surface. Not sure how that can be interpreted as me proving your point...
Usualy when people say: "entire surface of the planet is covered in hive city" they really meant "entire surface of the planet is covered in buildings". And you are wrong again, in that case, 3/4 of the surface is Hive City and rest 1/4 are the state buildings. Imperial palace is on Himalayas, Chamber of the Astronomican is also there, Hall of the Astronomican is in Africa, Inquisition is beneath Antarctica, Navigator's Quarter is on the massive island ( Greenland maybe ? ), Ecclesiarchal Palace covers almost all of Terra's southern continent ( Australia ? ), Scholastia Psykana is somewhere in the Pacific, Hall of Judgment is somewhere south of India and for the rest of governmental building is unknown. The rest of Earth is part of the greatest Hive City in the Imperium ( much larger than just 1/4 of the planet surface ). Even if we take that Imperial palace covers all of Asia and Astronomican Hall all of Africa it still lives the Hive City that is great in scale in comparison to the governmental buildings.
I was thinking the whole time that you where stating that not entire surface of the Earth is covered in buildings.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Not in this case, these palaces are essentially continents. There is the hive, then there is the palaces.
That is true...but Hive City is essentially on the place where there was oceans once. And oceans covered 70% of Earth's surface.
And beside, you are Tau arguing with two Humans about the Earth And again, what do Tau know about Earth?
The reason that Terra has no water and is, practically, a giant desert is becuase in the Horus Heresy, Warmaster Horus bombarded Terra with his Warships which would include Plasma weapons which boil water and vaporise it, SO, the water would have been bombarded away. ( but only surface water, so the impereal citizens would still be able to drink and wash etc.)
Chaos Emperor wrote:The reason that Terra has no water and is, practically, a giant desert is becuase in the Horus Heresy, Warmaster Horus bombarded Terra with his Warships which would include Plasma weapons which boil water and vaporise it, SO, the water would have been bombarded away. ( but only surface water, so the impereal citizens would still be able to drink and wash etc.)
However the water would not have left the planet. It would have still been kept in the atmosphere.
Brother Coa wrote:
Usualy when people say: "entire surface of the planet is covered in hive city" they really meant "entire surface of the planet is covered in buildings". And you are wrong again, in that case, 3/4 of the surface is Hive City and rest 1/4 are the state buildings. Imperial palace is on Himalayas, Chamber of the Astronomican is also there, Hall of the Astronomican is in Africa, Inquisition is beneath Antarctica, Navigator's Quarter is on the massive island ( Greenland maybe ? ), Ecclesiarchal Palace covers almost all of Terra's southern continent ( Australia ? ), Scholastia Psykana is somewhere in the Pacific, Hall of Judgment is somewhere south of India and for the rest of governmental building is unknown. The rest of Earth is part of the greatest Hive City in the Imperium ( much larger than just 1/4 of the planet surface ). Even if we take that Imperial palace covers all of Asia and Astronomican Hall all of Africa it still lives the Hive City that is great in scale in comparison to the governmental buildings.
I was thinking the whole time that you where stating that not entire surface of the Earth is covered in buildings.
I thought that Europe was the Emperor's Palace and Mount Everest was the Astronomican with Britain as the Emperor's Throne room?
Brother Coa wrote: Usualy when people say: "entire surface of the planet is covered in hive city" they really meant "entire surface of the planet is covered in buildings". And you are wrong again, in that case, 3/4 of the surface is Hive City and rest 1/4 are the state buildings. Imperial palace is on Himalayas, Chamber of the Astronomican is also there, Hall of the Astronomican is in Africa, Inquisition is beneath Antarctica, Navigator's Quarter is on the massive island ( Greenland maybe ? ), Ecclesiarchal Palace covers almost all of Terra's southern continent ( Australia ? ), Scholastia Psykana is somewhere in the Pacific, Hall of Judgment is somewhere south of India and for the rest of governmental building is unknown. The rest of Earth is part of the greatest Hive City in the Imperium ( much larger than just 1/4 of the planet surface ). Even if we take that Imperial palace covers all of Asia and Astronomican Hall all of Africa it still lives the Hive City that is great in scale in comparison to the governmental buildings. I was thinking the whole time that you where stating that not entire surface of the Earth is covered in buildings.
I thought that Europe was the Emperor's Palace and Mount Everest was the Astronomican with Britain as the Emperor's Throne room?
I believe that the astronomicon would have to be close to the Emperors toilet to link to him correctly. Though I could be wrong.
Right now, the greenhouse gases in our atmosphere is about 70% water vapour, and 30% of the other crap.
Boiling the oceans with plasma weapons would send all this water into the atmosphere, heating up Terra.
In the north and south poles, It would probaly be a wonderful island retreat. However, The equator area would be really, really damn hot.
And humid.
Then again, the water vapour might just form clouds, turning Terra into a land of constaint rain for hundreds of years.
But the water could be held in massive water tanks, and could be harnessed from other planets.
I have a far greater question. Why hasn't Sol started to die.
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
You can't really tell from that image as its basically a yellow/brown ball
But you have locations for the Imperial palace and Ecclesiarchal Palace already given ( Himalayas and Australia ), the rest you just figure out using map.
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The Crusader Of 42 wrote:
I have a far greater question. Why hasn't Sol started to die.
Star's don't die that fast. Sol will begin it's expansion in about 1.5 billion years, and even then we will be able to live on Terra - well untill the surface get's really hot ( around 7 - 8 billion years after it's creation). Here you are:
Brother Coa wrote:
Usualy when people say: "entire surface of the planet is covered in hive city" they really meant "entire surface of the planet is covered in buildings". And you are wrong again, in that case, 3/4 of the surface is Hive City and rest 1/4 are the state buildings. Imperial palace is on Himalayas, Chamber of the Astronomican is also there, Hall of the Astronomican is in Africa, Inquisition is beneath Antarctica, Navigator's Quarter is on the massive island ( Greenland maybe ? ), Ecclesiarchal Palace covers almost all of Terra's southern continent ( Australia ? ), Scholastia Psykana is somewhere in the Pacific, Hall of Judgment is somewhere south of India and for the rest of governmental building is unknown. The rest of Earth is part of the greatest Hive City in the Imperium ( much larger than just 1/4 of the planet surface ). Even if we take that Imperial palace covers all of Asia and Astronomican Hall all of Africa it still lives the Hive City that is great in scale in comparison to the governmental buildings.
I was thinking the whole time that you where stating that not entire surface of the Earth is covered in buildings.
I thought that Europe was the Emperor's Palace and Mount Everest was the Astronomican with Britain as the Emperor's Throne room?
There IS no Everest, the only mountains still in existence are the himalayas.
Brother Coa wrote:
Usualy when people say: "entire surface of the planet is covered in hive city" they really meant "entire surface of the planet is covered in buildings". And you are wrong again, in that case, 3/4 of the surface is Hive City and rest 1/4 are the state buildings. Imperial palace is on Himalayas, Chamber of the Astronomican is also there, Hall of the Astronomican is in Africa, Inquisition is beneath Antarctica, Navigator's Quarter is on the massive island ( Greenland maybe ? ), Ecclesiarchal Palace covers almost all of Terra's southern continent ( Australia ? ), Scholastia Psykana is somewhere in the Pacific, Hall of Judgment is somewhere south of India and for the rest of governmental building is unknown. The rest of Earth is part of the greatest Hive City in the Imperium ( much larger than just 1/4 of the planet surface ). Even if we take that Imperial palace covers all of Asia and Astronomican Hall all of Africa it still lives the Hive City that is great in scale in comparison to the governmental buildings.
I was thinking the whole time that you where stating that not entire surface of the Earth is covered in buildings.
I thought that Europe was the Emperor's Palace and Mount Everest was the Astronomican with Britain as the Emperor's Throne room?
There IS no Everest, the only mountains still in existence are the himalayas.
I do believe you contradicted yourself there... Everest is part of the Himalayan mountain range.... The entire range was hollowed out by the emporer to create the palace as a testament to humanity's power
Usualy when people say: "entire surface of the planet is covered in hive city" they really meant "entire surface of the planet is covered in buildings". And you are wrong again, in that case, 3/4 of the surface is Hive City and rest 1/4 are the state buildings. Imperial palace is on Himalayas, Chamber of the Astronomican is also there, Hall of the Astronomican is in Africa, Inquisition is beneath Antarctica, Navigator's Quarter is on the massive island ( Greenland maybe ? ), Ecclesiarchal Palace covers almost all of Terra's southern continent ( Australia ? ), Scholastia Psykana is somewhere in the Pacific, Hall of Judgment is somewhere south of India and for the rest of governmental building is unknown. The rest of Earth is part of the greatest Hive City in the Imperium ( much larger than just 1/4 of the planet surface ). Even if we take that Imperial palace covers all of Asia and Astronomican Hall all of Africa it still lives the Hive City that is great in scale in comparison to the governmental buildings.
And again, what do Tau know about Earth?
miscommunication
