Blood Angels were overpowered, until they took a battle cannon to the knee.
^ LOL. Thats a good one.
I play guard and theyre pretty solid Ill admit that.
@MOD, im not a poor sport. Ive played dozens of BA players and im always a good sport in game. I just think that an army of PURE deepstriking like the daemons should get something to help them, or at least an astropath of sorts. The BA get all sorts of crazy special rules.
Ive played space puppies and can slaughter them, I just use khorne for that. Guard is easy to beat with monstrous creatures. As for GK I know everyone thinks theyre OP, but ive beaten them in tournaments with my daemons. 3/4 of the daemons don't shoot they and should get something like the BA.
What crazy special rules are you referring to? ATSKNF which every marine codex has? The Red Thirst which only happens on a roll of 6? Or the FNP and FC bubbles that are granted by a 1 wound 75 point model that can be singled out in CC and has no invulnerable save?
I think the only things in the codex that are a little much are the blood talon furiosos, but a MC or good lascannon can take those down.
They shall stand as a monument to GW's failure to write good rules, until the end of time.
Thank you. lol I think the Tau could be better too. Same with nids, they got nerfed.
ATSKNF which every marine codex has? The Red Thirst which only happens on a roll of 6? Or the FNP and FC bubbles that are granted by a 1 wound 75 point model that can be singled out in CC and has no invulnerable save?
They get to re roll fail reserves, they have DOA, they have special characters that give them extra attacks...
After wiping out my brothers Blood Angels (drop list with all the trimmings) with my Tyranids, without losing a single unit, I just giggle when I hear people say they're overpowered.
Ya compared to space wolfs, GK and IG they arnt too bad. I only play against BA when I play against them. I have played some deamon lists that are EVIL! I play black templar, nids and IG. you can pretty easy build a anti marine list if you play against BA alot. I only have a problem with three things in the book, the ability to spam units (boring games), the lord of cheese and blood talons. besides that they are fine.
They shall stand as a monument to GW's failure to write good rules, until the end of time.
Thank you. lol I think the Tau could be better too. Same with nids, they got nerfed.
ATSKNF which every marine codex has? The Red Thirst which only happens on a roll of 6? Or the FNP and FC bubbles that are granted by a 1 wound 75 point model that can be singled out in CC and has no invulnerable save?
They get to re roll fail reserves, they have DOA, they have special characters that give them extra attacks...
Right, they have some special rules, like most other dexes out there.
Trust the responses here, BA aren't overpowered. If you are able to handle GK/IG/SW fine, then you probably just need to adjust some tactics. Head over to the Tactics forum, and ask advice for dealing with BA from some of the other Daemon players out there. I'm sure you'll be able to get the help that you need, and will be smacking them around in no time!
Because when I read it, it was almost word for word a copy/paste of a thread about Grey Knights I could have sworn I read earlier tonight.
But I searched the first page of the WH40k forum manually, and couldn't find any complaint threads about Grey Knights at all.
I even went and skimmed through 5 pages of the only other thread I read on Dakka tonight. Nothing.
And when I went and did all that, then came back, I had no sense of recollection of the original thread when re-reading the original post of this thread, just like... Oh... Oh my god...
Is... Is it possible to have deja vu that feels like a REAL memory? Normally mine feels like I'm remembering it from a dream that happened months or years prior, not like it's from a real memory that happened less than a few hours prior.
Ya, thats not bad advice. Daemons just need a new updates, just hope GW wont do that they did to the nids. GK are a testimony to GWs failure at making rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is... Is it possible to have deja vu that feels like a REAL memory? Normally mine feels like I'm remembering it from a dream that happened months or years prior, not like it's from a real memory that happened less than a few hours prior.
^Yes. Ive had it happen a few times, cept its more like I have a daydream and then I watch it happen seconds or a few min later.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Ya, thats not bad advice. Daemons just need a new updates, just hope GW wont do that they did to the nids. GK are a testimony to GWs failure at making rules.
.
My poor nids......reduced to nothing but a beer a pretzels army.
Eh actually in the last tourney my purifiers had a good game vs sw but when the 3rd round came around I played ba. Was not impressed to say the least. I like that they were fast. Meant less moving for me to get them in range and table them. I have yet to be all that impressed with ba outside of blood claw furioso.
Ya, I have a friend who plays 9 razorbacks and 3 preds for his BA list. Another guy who runs pure sanguinary guard and deepstriking assault guys, and yet another guy who plays only death company with the dread
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Ya, I have a friend who plays 9 razorbacks and 3 preds for his BA list. Another guy who runs pure sanguinary guard and deepstriking assault guys, and yet another guy who plays only death company with the dread
I'm no Daemon's expert by any stretch though I have played them several times (roomate has a daemons army). For dealing with Marine Armies I believe it is best to use a Tzeetch/Khorne combo. I played Blood Angels for over a year before switching to Orks last month, and Breath of Chaos on a DP mixed with a few bolts of change was a real butthurt at times. For the Mech Angels a Tzeetch based list would work well in theory. The Sang Guard and Death Company lists are ridiculously expensive to run. Anything with power weapons kill Sang guard and death company outright. Not to mention with the Death Company's rage rule you can basically herd them in a manner to take the advantage so long as you are smart with your deep strikes,
Again I am no expert with Daemons but perhaps if you post your typical list in the tactics forum others with more knowledge can assist you. And as far as the special rules go, every newer army has shiny special rules. Hell, I would rather scatter 2D6 and have 13 13 11 transports for 100 points but c'est la vie.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Who thinks that Blood Angels are WAAAAYYY to overpowered? To many frelling rules and assaults and bonus attacks and just arrrghh..... hate them, everyone plays them. I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT! WTF! Thats messed up, and totally unfair compared to codexs that need stuff. Its been so bad at my LGS that I refuse to play against them. I want to burn every BA codex and send the ashes to GW.
Anyone else feel the same...?
I think that this sir has just lost a game against Blood Angels, and cant stand his loss, so now he goes raging across the interwebs.
Tsssk to you, mate.
Tsssk.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Ya, I have a friend who plays 9 razorbacks and 3 preds for his BA list. Another guy who runs pure sanguinary guard and deepstriking assault guys, and yet another guy who plays only death company with the dread
The Razorbacks means just many points.
Sanguinary guard is a really vulnerable list.
Only DC is the most weak list ever.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Wow, lot of OP bashing. Guy must be a real tool if he has emotions....
How about this, instead of bashing the OP you do something constructive, like say, offer advice.
The BA are balanced codex.
The IG are balanced.
The GK's may be a little more powerful than the IG and the BA, but they have their weaknesses. (Yes warp quake really kills chaos daemons so they may be overpowered when fighting Daemons.)
There are only bad army lists, bad tactics, and overpowered codexes. The current overpowered codexes are GK and IG, with SW trailing behind. Blood angels are nothing.
My question is what do you run, and why aren't you changing your tactics to beat the blood angels.
Samus_aran115 wrote:I like BA. If I didn't play a red army (word bearers), I might play blood angels, because they really are pretty unique.
I think they serve a niche that wouldn't otherwise be filled by a space marine army.
Youre right, because eldar and de were the "fast" armies. lol
That's not exactly what I mean. Sure, those are fast armies, but BA are a bit more than fast... They're almost like the cavalry of space marines. Hard to explain.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Wow, lot of OP bashing. Guy must be a real tool if he has emotions....
How about this, instead of bashing the OP you do something constructive, like say, offer advice.
The BA are balanced codex.
The IG are balanced.
The GK's may be a little more powerful than the IG and the BA, but they have their weaknesses. (Yes warp quake really kills chaos daemons so they may be overpowered when fighting Daemons.)
If GK weren't good at fighting Daemons, then surely something would be wrong? Going OT for a second, look at the bold font in the quote. Sure, GK are nasty on the table. But paying 20-30 ppm isn't so good for GK.
Back OT.
Anyways, it seems to me that OP is fighting three rather different armies (Mech Angels, Sang Guard and Death Company). So for the former, bring tank poppers (Razorbacks are not that hard to kill, trust me), for the second you waant your elite killers (Read Power weapons, as they will eat through Sang guard nicely. They don't have an Invulnerable save) and for the latter, AP 2, power weapons, etc, but in larger numbers to deal with FNP and 3+ saves. And if that fails, play GK instead.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Who thinks that Blood Angels are WAAAAYYY to overpowered? To many frelling rules and assaults and bonus attacks and just arrrghh..... hate them, everyone plays them. I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT! WTF! Thats messed up, and totally unfair compared to codexs that need stuff. Its been so bad at my LGS that I refuse to play against them. I want to burn every BA codex and send the ashes to GW.
Samus_aran115 wrote:I like BA. If I didn't play a red army (word bearers), I might play blood angels, because they really are pretty unique.
I think they serve a niche that wouldn't otherwise be filled by a space marine army.
Youre right, because eldar and de were the "fast" armies. lol
That's not exactly what I mean. Sure, those are fast armies, but BA are a bit more than fast... They're almost like the cavalry of space marines. Hard to explain.
Cavalry is a poor choice of words too since sw actually have cavalry. BA do not really fill a unique niche. Outside of fast vehicles they dont do anything particulary better then sw or gk. All 3 are mid range/cc based armies in which ba will lose more often then not.
Draigo wrote:Cavalry is a poor choice of words too since sw actually have cavalry. BA do not really fill a unique niche. Outside of fast vehicles [and cheaper Razorbacks] they dont do anything particulary better then sw or gk. All 3 are mid range/cc based armies in which ba will lose more often then not.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Who thinks that Blood Angels are WAAAAYYY to overpowered? To many frelling rules and assaults and bonus attacks and just arrrghh..... hate them, everyone plays them. I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT! WTF! Thats messed up, and totally unfair compared to codexs that need stuff. Its been so bad at my LGS that I refuse to play against them. I want to burn every BA codex and send the ashes to GW.
Anyone else feel the same...?
He is no troll, he speaks the truth. The Blood Angels must be deleted.
If they're OP then Eldar are god tier as I'm undefeated against all the BAs I've come across.
If you'll notice a trend of the newest codex is always thought to be overpowered, since I have started playing BA came out and it was overpowered then SW came out and it was overpowered then Grey Knights came out and it was overpowered. It's a progressive trend that the newest codex is more ridiculous then the last one just wait til you have your time in to sun.
Draigo wrote:If thats the trend then how do you explain IG?
There are some units that are scary, but for the most part all you need to deal with them is an artillery like a Biovore or Whirlwind and an anti-armor like Krak missiles or Hive Guard. IG isn't that bad.
Draigo wrote:If thats the trend then how do you explain IG?
There are some units that are scary, but for the most part all you need to deal with them is an artillery like a Biovore or Whirlwind and an anti-armor like Krak missiles or Hive Guard. IG isn't that bad.
I think youre over simplifying one of the most successful codexes period. Aside from the strength of firepower youre forgetting these players have a lot of exp with their army. Theyre still winning a lot of tourneys and a dex thats been out for a long time.
Draigo wrote:If thats the trend then how do you explain IG?
There are some units that are scary, but for the most part all you need to deal with them is an artillery like a Biovore or Whirlwind and an anti-armor like Krak missiles or Hive Guard. IG isn't that bad.
I think youre over simplifying one of the most successful codexes period. Aside from the strength of firepower youre forgetting these players have a lot of exp with their army. Theyre still winning a lot of tourneys and a dex thats been out for a long time.
Well yeah if you stick with the same army you will be almost unstoppable, no matter what the codex is. Do Dark Angels suck? There's a guy at my local game shop that has been playing Dark Angel since they came out, and he will push you off the board. Ones exp means a lot and you can't simulate that, but mathematically IG can be beaten.
Draigo wrote:If thats the trend then how do you explain IG?
There are some units that are scary, but for the most part all you need to deal with them is an artillery like a Biovore or Whirlwind and an anti-armor like Krak missiles or Hive Guard. IG isn't that bad.
I think youre over simplifying one of the most successful codexes period. Aside from the strength of firepower youre forgetting these players have a lot of exp with their army. Theyre still winning a lot of tourneys and a dex thats been out for a long time.
Well yeah if you stick with the same army you will be almost unstoppable, no matter what the codex is. Do Dark Angels suck? There's a guy at my local game shop that has been playing Dark Angel since they came out, and he will push you off the board. Ones exp means a lot and you can't simulate that, but mathematically IG can be beaten.
Every army can be beaten. That wasn't the point. You said every new codex was the new op dex but didnt adress books like orkz(number 1 army in america) or IG who keep winning.
Can't really compare DA to the other armies. They have very limited builds that are cost effective. I'd take my gk, eldar etc vs a deathwing/ravenwing over a leafblower anyday.
Draigo wrote:If thats the trend then how do you explain IG?
There are some units that are scary, but for the most part all you need to deal with them is an artillery like a Biovore or Whirlwind and an anti-armor like Krak missiles or Hive Guard. IG isn't that bad.
I think youre over simplifying one of the most successful codexes period. Aside from the strength of firepower youre forgetting these players have a lot of exp with their army. Theyre still winning a lot of tourneys and a dex thats been out for a long time.
Well yeah if you stick with the same army you will be almost unstoppable, no matter what the codex is. Do Dark Angels suck? There's a guy at my local game shop that has been playing Dark Angel since they came out, and he will push you off the board. Ones exp means a lot and you can't simulate that, but mathematically IG can be beaten.
Every army can be beaten. That wasn't the point. You said every new codex was the new op dex but didnt adress books like orkz(number 1 army in america) or IG who keep winning.
Can't really compare DA to the other armies. They have very limited builds that are cost effective. I'd take my gk, eldar etc vs a deathwing/ravenwing over a leafblower anyday.
Orks are the number 1 army in America!? Sir, I've only played for 2 years, the two guys that play orks at the game shop, I look at them and say lunch is served, so I doubt it's the number army in America. All the races aren't as op as people think they are, the more you come across them the more you will learn their tricks and weaknesses. When I first started playing people told me not to go Tyranids they're ranked one of the lowest, as a matter of fact I'm the only one playing Tyranid at the shop, but I've push through that, got my teeth kicked in and learned to hunt. The reason I attribute to the IG being well executed is by the people that stick with them and play them. And then there are so many people who have to have the most of "overpowered" army out and will switch from army to army to army. And I'm sure when BT come out there will be so many people playing BT because it's new and shiny. I don't believe in the whole army ranking thing.
What he means is that orks are the most common army. Theyre cheap $$ wise by comparison. As well, I play IG and Daemons, and my daemons PLOW through IG tank spam, and the flamers and horrors can own IG infantry lists. Overall IG isnt that bad. Space marines with 1000000000000 rules give or take x10^4......
@broodstar Then you need to look at the tournament rankings at HQ. They ARE the number one army in America. More ork armies are winning and placing high then any other army. Doesnt really matter if you believe in it or not the facts are in front of your face.
Nids are horribly underpowered and I have yet to lose to them playing any army. I think they have maybe 1 or 2 decent builds but thats it.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Who thinks that Blood Angels are WAAAAYYY to overpowered? To many frelling rules and assaults and bonus attacks and just arrrghh..... hate them, everyone plays them. I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT! WTF! Thats messed up, and totally unfair compared to codexs that need stuff. Its been so bad at my LGS that I refuse to play against them. I want to burn every BA codex and send the ashes to GW.
Anyone else feel the same...?
*Old Thread I Know*
Was digging around and saw your post, having a hard time understanding how they can deep strike 'and' assault. The only unit that can do that that I know of is Vanguard veterans and Codex Marines have those as well, big shocker that they are over-cost and hardly utilized.
Over-powered but not unbeatable. Sure it's annoying they get virtually every tank Fast for free, their razors are practically free (and fast, obviously), and they get to re-roll the reserve dice for no apparent reason.
They can be a "hard counter" to certain lists, though. Just change your list.
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Joey, it's not for free. All their transports that are Fast are 15 pts more. The Vindicator is 30 points more!
I would happily pay 30 points for a fast Demolisher cannon.
Don't have the BA/SM codexes at hand (at work) but I think most SM players would kill for such cheap fast transports/predators.
And the Bhall, an outflanking fast predator with an assault cannon and sponsons, for iirc ~130 points.
Nah, Blood Angels are hardly overpowered, just clump your units together and wait for him.
But the only thing that ticks me off is in the 5th edition, they removed Drop Troop Guard from the current Guard Codex and on the very next Codex brings out a Space Marine Chapter that can be a dedicated deep striking force.
It's a friggin eye-poke to my Harkoni Warhawks! Damnable Space Marines getting everyone and everything! *Shakes Fists Angrily*
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Some of the lists though are just ridiclious. They have so many SC tht give so many extra rules ontop of the pile of rules they already get.
Am I wrong in saying that they get more rules than most any other codex?
Yeah, its bad but not as bad as the BA. The only thing I dont like is the deep striking rules that they can mess with. But other than that, theyre normal to me. Not any better than DA or SM, sure they get rules but its not like they get the ones that the BA get.
The BA codex is overpowered. Just because its not as overpowered as 1-2 other books, does not make it not OP. The BA codex truly is SM +1. They get everything the normal SM get plus all the cheaper toys. At least the SW and GK book tries to be a divergent army from SM. But BA is the SM book just with some price tweeking and a ton of extra bits.
Also there are some things in the BA codex that just should not exist in a table top game.
Blood talons Infinite generating hits
Dante's mask that directly takes away stats from your opponent
Mephiston being a MC on a infantry base
Fast (not just boosted) marine vehicles.
Force bonus bubbles
It doesn't matter some/all/none of the above can be "easily" dealt with, they just shouldn't exist in the first place. Its horrible game design that can't be remedied without a complete rewrite.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Some of the lists though are just ridiclious. They have so many SC tht give so many extra rules ontop of the pile of rules they already get.
Am I wrong in saying that they get more rules than most any other codex?
Have you SEEN the Space Wolves Codex?
Space Wolves have 2 under-costed units in the form of Grey Hunters & Long fangs. However, they pay through the nose for their sergeant equivalents, hammernators are horrendously over-costed for them, their HQ's are equal to or costlier than their codex marine equivalents and the rest is pretty well balanced.
The thing that makes SW's strong is they can readily spam their under-costed units at least as well as the other 5th ed books, and they can play the MSU mech game *really* well.
BA's on the other hand I find are 'Codex: Marines - Easy Mode!' Look at what they can do well for only a minor pts increase, if any at all;
- DoA's lists w/precision dropping meltaguns. Dante makes it even easier with 4x Meltagun honour guard and he nerfs an enemy IC in the bargan.
- MSU mech spam for better & cheaper than other marines thanks to gaining meltaguns in assault squads, inferno pistol sergeants AND 'free' twin-linked asscan/twin-linked las/twin plasma + lascannon turrets on a 'fast' type transport! (SW's players tend to cry at this!)
- FnP gunlines. Codex marines are crying their eyes out here. for what, 150'ish pts and an Elites slot, BA's can play the DA's game way better than they can.
On the flip side, you have the ability to easily create an entire FnP jump pack/hammernator force. Have fun, hope you have ready access to 'oodles of ap1/2 and/or power toys, if not, sucks to be you!
- 'Blendernaughts' are moronic. Fantasy players complain about vampire lords being able to throw out upwards of a dozen plus attacks a round as being a bit OTT. But in 40k, we have a sillier version that can single-handedly wipe-out 30 man squads... All those Khornate worshippers must be wondering why their God has suddenly made them go soft.
The downside? You have to take a 5 Death Company 'tax' to get him.
- Outflanking, 'fast' type predators with options for template weapons. Who the hell wouldn't want some of those?!!
Even deploying a Baal pred normally, you still have an av13 box zipping about with either 4x twin-linked S6/rending shots, or a S6/ap3 template weapon.
- Mephiston is broken. A monstrous creature statline who hides as easily as any other infantry model. So he's not an IC?! Big whooptie-do. He's also got the 3 psychic abilities that help him out the most just to make sure he's about as idiot proof as possible.
Like GK's, BA's allow you to play 40k in 'easy mode', giving you numerous advantages for little additional cost and/or drawbacks. It's fustrating more than it is outright 'unfair', simply because alot of other armies are either well behind the current curve, or else have been more or less balanced like Codex: Space Marines.
For alot of people, facing BA's is like when you're 6 years old playing toy soldiers with that kid who always has to one-up your every cool ability with an even cooler and sillier one!
Boo fething hoo. Play BAs if they are so broken. To me they are FAR less idiot proof then the codices that come after them. Seriously, how hard is it to take Rad Grenades and cast Hammerhand whilst using Force Halberds?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Experiment 626 wrote:[
Space Wolves have 2 under-costed units in the form of Grey Hunters & Long fangs. However, they pay through the nose for their sergeant equivalents, hammernators are horrendously over-costed for them, their HQ's are equal to or costlier than their codex marine equivalents and the rest is pretty well balanced.
The thing that makes SW's strong is they can readily spam their under-costed units at least as well as the other 5th ed books, and they can play the MSU mech game *really* well.
Which (judging by al lthe tourney lists I see) is all yo uneed to be oover powered. Cheap spammed firepower/support and reasonably balanced powerful units. The fact that the units ytou want first off (scoring units and firepower) are so cheap allows you to get MORE of the "reasonably costed" units. They don't need sergeant equivalents though... regular troops can get special CCWs.
BA's on the other hand I find are 'Codex: Marines - Easy Mode!' Look at what they can do well for only a minor pts increase, if any at all;
- DoA's lists w/precision dropping meltaguns. Dante makes it even easier with 4x Meltagun honour guard and he nerfs an enemy IC in the bargan.
Yes, because we all know 400 point melta units dropping in to kill one vehicle is a wonderful use of points...
- MSU mech spam for better & cheaper than other marines thanks to gaining meltaguns in assault squads, inferno pistol sergeants AND 'free' twin-linked asscan/twin-linked las/twin plasma + lascannon turrets on a 'fast' type transport! (SW's players tend to cry at this!)
All for much more points.
- FnP gunlines. Codex marines are crying their eyes out here. for what, 150'ish pts and an Elites slot, BA's can play the DA's game way better than they can.
Who can't beat a gunline in this day and age?
- 'Blendernaughts' are moronic. Fantasy players complain about vampire lords being able to throw out upwards of a dozen plus attacks a round as being a bit OTT. But in 40k, we have a sillier version that can single-handedly wipe-out 30 man squads... All those Khornate worshippers must be wondering why their God has suddenly made them go soft.
The downside? You have to take a 5 Death Company 'tax' to get him.
Statistically they'll kill 6 Guardsmen... Woo hooo... One lascannon will kill it.
- Mephiston is broken. A monstrous creature statline who hides as easily as any other infantry model. So he's not an IC?! Big whooptie-do. He's also got the 3 psychic abilities that help him out the most just to make sure he's about as idiot proof as possible.
No Invul save, can't hide from shooting...hmm what to do.....
xSoulgrinderx wrote:I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT!
Actually, only Vanguard Veterans can assault after Deepstriking, if your opponents do this with anything else they are cheating.
To add to the actualy topic, I'd say BA are a fine codex with lots of variety without being overpowered. Sure they get some nice upgrades and extra rules but the also pay for it pointswise wether you like it or not.
Experiment 626 wrote: 'Blendernaughts' are moronic. Fantasy players complain about vampire lords being able to throw out upwards of a dozen plus attacks a round as being a bit OTT. But in 40k, we have a sillier version that can single-handedly wipe-out 30 man squads... All those Khornate worshippers must be wondering why their God has suddenly made them go soft. The downside? You have to take a 5 Death Company 'tax' to get him.
Statistically they'll kill 6 Guardsmen... Woo hooo... One lascannon will kill it.
Statistics hardly matter, I generally do 10-20 wounds with my Furioso.
And you do not have to have 5 Death Company to have a Furioso with Blood Talons. You need 5 Death Company to have a Death Company Dread with Blood Talons, which is not the same unit.
Also, 1 lascannon can kill it, but you have a 50% chance of doing nothing, a 16.6667% chance of glance, and a 33.3333% chance to pen on one shot (Assuming you hit and it does not have cover).
Blood Angels aren't OP, but because they are an army written in the 5th Edition, while Daemons may have been prepared for the 5th Edition rules, they find it hard to fight the other armies however they do have their strengths. Also, this is effectively: "BLOOD ANGELZ BEATZ ME SO THEY DIZ OVERPOWEREDS"
KplKeegan wrote:Nah, Blood Angels are hardly overpowered, just clump your units together and wait for him.
But the only thing that ticks me off is in the 5th edition, they removed Drop Troop Guard from the current Guard Codex and on the very next Codex brings out a Space Marine Chapter that can be a dedicated deep striking force.
It's a friggin eye-poke to my Harkoni Warhawks! Damnable Space Marines getting everyone and everything! *Shakes Fists Angrily*
Dark Angels had a "dedicated deep striking force" in the Deathwing way before GW even considered giving the IG book an all DS force. And before that, all marines could do it by forgoing vehicles(3rd edition vanilla Marine Codex Dro ppod rules gave the army DS instead of actual Drop pod models and stats). And before THAT the 3rd ed rule book lists gave BA Assault Marines as Troops.
So, y'know, it's only them coming around full circle.
Ok so let review this thread (after all the guy looks like he needs some advice) and asses the view:
You claim BA are OP, this I can understand your point of view mainly because I remember a time when I played BW Orks vs an all dread army, I charged a full 20 lad squad into a DC dread thinking it will only have like 5 attacks or something (not much experience back then) so I can get the power klaw stuck in... then I soon found out that my tactic was basically sending wheat to a combine harvester... not a single one of my poor lads lived to tell a tale...
I can understand that it is frustrating to have an army that fills a certain role get ripped apart by another which is better in more ways including yours, but the thing is to learn from your mistakes I can understand it is hard to beat an army which is well-rounded but in each list (apart from DE venomspam, what? haters gonna hate...) but there will always be a weak spot in the list no matter what army it is (apart from venomspam... and GK, yeah I hate them also but mainly because its very hard to beat them with any variation of chaos) so here is some advice:
-use plaguebearers/nurgle stuff and blessings in the first wave (the opponent will charge them and will be bogged down for quite a few turns).
-Use changeling (make him give him an arrow in his own knee).
-Fateweaver and bloodcrushers (yes this is hyper competitive levels, but since we Dont know how many times you have lost to BA I guess you want to win very bad against them).
-make sure bloodletters are in cover (run them to cover when Deepstriking) then on the next turn CHARGE THE ENEMY, then you shall have your fun...
-Flamers are good for those troops entrenched in a fortification...
-pink horrors (assault 3 AP 3... you want marine killers sooo badly).
-Mostorous creatures with mark of nurgle (having fun blowing up the tanks yet?).
-SCREAMERS: (flying meltabombs anyone?).
take this in and as long as you know what you are doing you shall do fine
(also SW are more of a pain than BA, JOWW... *shudder*).
Yeah it kinda seems that way huh? Go figure I would have the opinion when most of the people at my LGS plays BLOOD ANGELS....
OK let me re do that:
I cantz beats the Blood Angels, they Iz over powered! To de inter nets.
I play daemons, it's hard to win against any modern army, however I have adapted to face new forces. Try and counter the close combat tactics of the Angels.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Yeah, its bad but not as bad as the BA. The only thing I dont like is the deep striking rules that they can mess with. But other than that, theyre normal to me. Not any better than DA or SM, sure they get rules but its not like they get the ones that the BA get.
I can understand your aggravation playing against these guys with demons. BA are indeed a strong codex but they aren't dominant anymore. GK and SW both have plenty of tools to deal with them. It's not just that you're plaiyng against a strong army. You're playing against it with a weak one. GW just isn't that good at maintaining play balance. That's all there is to it.
In reality, every new codex just seems over powered. Then a new codex comes along and nerfs it.
Ba are indeed a strong codex, but they aren't OP.
"Melta Vet Guard is OP!"
"Long Fangs are OP!"
"Deathwing is OP!"
"Draigowing is OP!"
"Purifiers are OP!"
""DOA is OP!"
"Mech Guard is OP!"
"Venom Spam is OP!"
"Battlewagon Rush is OP!"
"Mech BA is OP!
Seriously, if you think Blood Angels are bad, take a look at other armies.
I don't call codices like GK, BA, SW, OP I simply view them as a beginner codex. you require little understanding to make a solid list. and it simply comes from spamming and options that are laid at your feet from the start.
for instance long fangs! why would you not choose them? that single choice makes all other heavy support below it.
purifiers? why would you not choose them? good in CC? possible scoring unit? great shooting? they cover every field that way.
those BA priests that give fnp why would you not choose them?
why not have at least 1 dread with blood talons or w/e?
heck even guard! I played a tournament with about 50 or so players and about 7 guard players. I was the ONLY guard player who used russ battle tanks.
EVERYTHING else was hydra spam and chim spam.
No need to try and configure a balanced list. just spam the best possible options laid at your feet the second you open the codex.
I don't hate the codices I just simply view them as beginner armies.
Basic marine codex takes a lot more skill in making lists and that's why I choose to play them.
I even refuse to play Vulkan he is to popular for my liking. i'll stick to 2 librarians with null zones =P
Also, some of the players as it turns out were using rules totally wrong and to their advantage. Complex unit allocation and stuff like that.
Some of the other players are newbs so its acceptable, but there are 2 guys that are just straight up general status players. their tactics and lists are dominating the LGS. Mostly their exp, and list builds are very strong and they know how to max out the rules with maxing tanks and so on.
@happygolucky
Horrors are AP4..... Booooo. STR 4 AP4 Assault 3 weaksauce
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Who thinks that Blood Angels are way to overpowered? To many frelling rules and assaults and bonus attacks and just..... hate them, everyone plays them. I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT! Thats messed up, and totally unfair compared to codexs that need those kind of rules. Its been so bad at my LGS that I refuse to play against them. I want to burn every BA codex and send the ashes to GW.
Anyone else feel the same...?
Spoiler:
well lets answer some of your questions/comments shall we.....
"how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT!"
now first off that's only for one unit (the assault bit) and deep striking is kind of their thing. they've been doing it since the HH. without that rule they would just be marines but red
"everyone plays them"
really? you dont, and only me and one other person out of my 15 man gaming group does so thats hardly every one
"codexs that need those kind of rules"
name one other codex than daemons who still dont really need that rule. so they get 1D6 less scatter.....and? if your playing daemons properly you shouldnt need 1 less dice to scatter
Wow, lot of OP bashing. Guy must be a real tool if he has emotions....
How about this, instead of bashing the OP you do something constructive, like say, offer advice.
well, if you asked how you should go about beating them/ how to make your army better then you would get advice but shouting about how OP a, frankly balanced, army is and making immature comments about how you wish to rid the world of their codex will only land you with comments like the ones above
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Also, some of the players as it turns out were using rules totally wrong and to their advantage. Complex unit allocation and stuff like that.
Some of the other players are newbs so its acceptable, but there are 2 guys that are just straight up general status players. their tactics and lists are dominating the LGS. Mostly their exp, and list builds are very strong and they know how to max out the rules with maxing tanks and so on.
@happygolucky
Horrors are AP4..... Booooo. STR 4 AP4 Assault 3 weaksauce
Ok but still assault 3... 30 shots Dont sound too bad...
If you wanna win at strong builds go for a fate-crusher list (title says it all...) because if there are 2 guys using "competitive" lists (*ahem net lists ahem*) the its time to step up your game and bring 'em down to the warp...
KplKeegan wrote:Nah, Blood Angels are hardly overpowered, just clump your units together and wait for him.
But the only thing that ticks me off is in the 5th edition, they removed Drop Troop Guard from the current Guard Codex and on the very next Codex brings out a Space Marine Chapter that can be a dedicated deep striking force.
It's a friggin eye-poke to my Harkoni Warhawks! Damnable Space Marines getting everyone and everything! *Shakes Fists Angrily*
Dark Angels had a "dedicated deep striking force" in the Deathwing way before GW even considered giving the IG book an all DS force. And before that, all marines could do it by forgoing vehicles(3rd edition vanilla Marine Codex Dro ppod rules gave the army DS instead of actual Drop pod models and stats). And before THAT the 3rd ed rule book lists gave BA Assault Marines as Troops.
So, y'know, it's only them coming around full circle.
But the Space Marines have had their Deep Striking capabilities either improved or enhanced, unlike the Imperial Guard, which had the majority of their Drop Troops removed.
xSoulgrinderx wrote:"So 30 Bolter shots isn't good enougth for you from a ten man unit? "
well.... now that you put it that way haha.... that is kinda ridiculous.
@ the brony, dont patronize me when several players at my LGS play BA. Also, offer advice instead of smark remarks.
I think its time to lock the thread. Half is usefull comments and the other half is OP bashing.
who me?.......what gave you the idea I'm a brony.........
well if you ask for advice then I and the "other half" will give you advice rather than smug/smart comments buts as I said, your first post was just but hurt over how OP blood angels supposedly are and you should be prepared to take backlash from people who dont share your opinions and/or find your little outburst immature
go make a new thread over in tactics called "how to beat daemons with blood angels" and you will get the advice that you need. state why you are having problems and we will help you. making a whinge thread will accomplish nothing
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Some of the lists though are just ridiclious. They have so many SC tht give so many extra rules ontop of the pile of rules they already get.
Am I wrong in saying that they get more rules than most any other codex?
Have you SEEN the Space Wolves Codex?
Space Wolves have 2 under-costed units in the form of Grey Hunters & Long fangs. However, they pay through the nose for their sergeant equivalents, hammernators are horrendously over-costed for them, their HQ's are equal to or costlier than their codex marine equivalents and the rest is pretty well balanced.
The thing that makes SW's strong is they can readily spam their under-costed units at least as well as the other 5th ed books, and they can play the MSU mech game *really* well.
BA's on the other hand I find are 'Codex: Marines - Easy Mode!' Look at what they can do well for only a minor pts increase, if any at all;
- DoA's lists w/precision dropping meltaguns. Dante makes it even easier with 4x Meltagun honour guard and he nerfs an enemy IC in the bargan.
- MSU mech spam for better & cheaper than other marines thanks to gaining meltaguns in assault squads, inferno pistol sergeants AND 'free' twin-linked asscan/twin-linked las/twin plasma + lascannon turrets on a 'fast' type transport! (SW's players tend to cry at this!)
- FnP gunlines. Codex marines are crying their eyes out here. for what, 150'ish pts and an Elites slot, BA's can play the DA's game way better than they can.
On the flip side, you have the ability to easily create an entire FnP jump pack/hammernator force. Have fun, hope you have ready access to 'oodles of ap1/2 and/or power toys, if not, sucks to be you!
- 'Blendernaughts' are moronic. Fantasy players complain about vampire lords being able to throw out upwards of a dozen plus attacks a round as being a bit OTT. But in 40k, we have a sillier version that can single-handedly wipe-out 30 man squads... All those Khornate worshippers must be wondering why their God has suddenly made them go soft.
The downside? You have to take a 5 Death Company 'tax' to get him.
- Outflanking, 'fast' type predators with options for template weapons. Who the hell wouldn't want some of those?!!
Even deploying a Baal pred normally, you still have an av13 box zipping about with either 4x twin-linked S6/rending shots, or a S6/ap3 template weapon.
- Mephiston is broken. A monstrous creature statline who hides as easily as any other infantry model. So he's not an IC?! Big whooptie-do. He's also got the 3 psychic abilities that help him out the most just to make sure he's about as idiot proof as possible.
Like GK's, BA's allow you to play 40k in 'easy mode', giving you numerous advantages for little additional cost and/or drawbacks. It's fustrating more than it is outright 'unfair', simply because alot of other armies are either well behind the current curve, or else have been more or less balanced like Codex: Space Marines.
For alot of people, facing BA's is like when you're 6 years old playing toy soldiers with that kid who always has to one-up your every cool ability with an even cooler and sillier one!
An excellent post.
I suspect most people (who're actually trolling but leaving that aside) have played BA once or twice. Factor in even if they have they may not be playing against someone who's super-competative. Then factor in people who see them in tournaments but themselves have highly specialised lists and so are not concerned.
They have a great many things that on their own aren't so bad but add up to be on the whole a piss-take. Every unit has some special rule that makes it cooler than the "default". Even the basic tactical squad costs the same points as standard SM but has a 1/6 chance to be Furious and be given Furious Charge. Except they'll have Feel No Pain and Furious Charge anyway from that priest. The vehicles are SM...but fast. Blendernaughts are stupid. Not only is it infite attacks but against nearly everything (T4 and below) it's 2s to hit with re-rolls and no armour save. You have to keep going in loops until your opponent rolls 1s and 2s to hit and the attacks become less and less. It's stupid.
Not unbeatable though. Fight cheese with cheese. If my opponent is going to have half a dozen fast razorbacks with twin-linked lascannons, plus a couple of fast Baals, then I'm going to bring mechvets, manticores and vendettas.
