The only races that can oppose them in Mass Effect are Humanity and Turians. Asari and Salarians lack numbers to oppose them. Not to mention that Repaers will tie the allied forces down and that will leave the Orks to ram unchallenged.
The only races that can oppose them in Mass Effect are Humanity and Turians. Asari and Salarians lack numbers to oppose them. Not to mention that Repaers will tie the allied forces down and that will leave the Orks to ram unchallenged.
And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
"Oi Boss! We found dis 'ere shiny bitz an' we stuck 'em in our skinz! Now's we'z all flash!"
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
I have to disagree on that. The Orks' fungal structure is too complicated for the Flood, let alone the nanomachines in the Teeth.
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
I have to disagree on that. The Orks' fungal structure is too complicated for the Flood, let alone the nanomachines in the Teeth.
What makes it so complicated? If they can combine two creatures whose protein bases are incompatible (Turian and Krogan, in the form of a Brute), why can't they nanomolecularly work on a creature who is partially fungal? The key to the process are the nano machines, which work on the molecular level, which is sub-cellular, thus it can rearrange molecules within cells as it sees fit.
spectreoneone wrote:
What makes it so complicated? If they can combine two creatures whose protein bases are incompatible (Turian and Krogan, in the form of a Brute), why can't they nanomolecularly work on a creature who is partially fungal? The key to the process are the nano machines, which work on the molecular level, which is sub-cellular, thus it can rearrange molecules within cells as it sees fit.
Chaos have a hard time corrupting Orks, technology have even less chance them Immaterium.
Orks are also very resistant to mind control, if they weren't Eldar would have much easier time manipulating them then usual.
And Orks have insane numbers on their side, no matter how much Repaers kill them much more will come back, even if indoctrinated Ork is killed hundreds of ordinary ones will be born.
In the end even Repers will fail because they to will be overruned by the green horde.
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
I have to disagree on that. The Orks' fungal structure is too complicated for the Flood, let alone the nanomachines in the Teeth.
What makes it so complicated? If they can combine two creatures whose protein bases are incompatible (Turian and Krogan, in the form of a Brute), why can't they nanomolecularly work on a creature who is partially fungal? The key to the process are the nano machines, which work on the molecular level, which is sub-cellular, thus it can rearrange molecules within cells as it sees fit.
One word: the Thorian.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:
spectreoneone wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
Plus, if we're still on the indoctrination subject, dragon's teeth have nothing to do with that. It's 2 different processes. Yea, Orkz could be turned into Husks, one at a time, but Orkz can reproduce so fast that the process of becoming a Husk is almost irrelevant as the Orkz would overwhelm their Husk counterparts. And finally, being a Husk would remove one of the main aspects of the power of the Orkz
That being their communal psyker ability that allows them to alter reality with enough belief. The Husk cannot believe and would therefore be little more than a really big human-like Husk
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
I have to disagree on that. The Orks' fungal structure is too complicated for the Flood, let alone the nanomachines in the Teeth.
What makes it so complicated? If they can combine two creatures whose protein bases are incompatible (Turian and Krogan, in the form of a Brute), why can't they nanomolecularly work on a creature who is partially fungal? The key to the process are the nano machines, which work on the molecular level, which is sub-cellular, thus it can rearrange molecules within cells as it sees fit.
One word: the Thorian.
What about it? Sure, it's a huge, sentient plant, but it was not beneficial to the Reapers, else I'm sure they would have found a way to indoctrinate it. More likely than not, they would have just destroyed it, but I am sure that they could have adapted their methods of molecular reconstruction to turn it into a bionic machine.
What is being forgotten by a lot of these pro-Orks arguments is the fact that the Reapers are far more advanced than any of the races of the 40k universe. I understand that the Orks are nigh-incorruptible by psychic means, but what is being discussed here is not mind control, but the entire reconstruction of the molecular makeup of a creature. When you're talking about changing something on a molecular level, no amount of regeneration stop that. Not to mention that once the Ork has been turned, it would cease to be an Ork, thus it's abilities to spawn new Orks would most likely be negated...or if it were not, it could spawn new indoctrinated Orks...a terrifying thought for those opposing the Reapers.
Edit: Okay, just as a clarification, I'm placing indoctrination in with changing a creature into a husk, as although both processes are somewhat different, they are part of the same line of thought...gaining forces for the Reapers. Additionally, although the Ork communal psychic ability might be gone (and I will say might, because the Asari banshees still retain their biotics), their brute strength, and quite possibly their regeneration could be taken advantage of...they'd make formidable shock troops.
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
I have to disagree on that. The Orks' fungal structure is too complicated for the Flood, let alone the nanomachines in the Teeth.
What makes it so complicated? If they can combine two creatures whose protein bases are incompatible (Turian and Krogan, in the form of a Brute), why can't they nanomolecularly work on a creature who is partially fungal? The key to the process are the nano machines, which work on the molecular level, which is sub-cellular, thus it can rearrange molecules within cells as it sees fit.
One word: the Thorian.
What about it? Sure, it's a huge, sentient plant, but it was not beneficial to the Reapers, else I'm sure they would have found a way to indoctrinate it. More likely than not, they would have just destroyed it, but I am sure that they could have adapted their methods of molecular reconstruction to turn it into a bionic machine.
What is being forgotten by a lot of these pro-Orks arguments is the fact that the Reapers are far more advanced than any of the races of the 40k universe. I understand that the Orks are nigh-incorruptible by psychic means, but what is being discussed here is not mind control, but the entire reconstruction of the molecular makeup of a creature. When you're talking about changing something on a molecular level, no amount of regeneration stop that. Not to mention that once the Ork has been turned, it would cease to be an Ork, thus it's abilities to spawn new Orks would most likely be negated...or if it were not, it could spawn new indoctrinated Orks...a terrifying thought for those opposing the Reapers.
You're dang wrong on that. I can name at least 2 40k races that are superior to the Reapers in every way. The Necrons and the Tyranids.
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
I have to disagree on that. The Orks' fungal structure is too complicated for the Flood, let alone the nanomachines in the Teeth.
What makes it so complicated? If they can combine two creatures whose protein bases are incompatible (Turian and Krogan, in the form of a Brute), why can't they nanomolecularly work on a creature who is partially fungal? The key to the process are the nano machines, which work on the molecular level, which is sub-cellular, thus it can rearrange molecules within cells as it sees fit.
One word: the Thorian.
What about it? Sure, it's a huge, sentient plant, but it was not beneficial to the Reapers, else I'm sure they would have found a way to indoctrinate it. More likely than not, they would have just destroyed it, but I am sure that they could have adapted their methods of molecular reconstruction to turn it into a bionic machine.
What is being forgotten by a lot of these pro-Orks arguments is the fact that the Reapers are far more advanced than any of the races of the 40k universe. I understand that the Orks are nigh-incorruptible by psychic means, but what is being discussed here is not mind control, but the entire reconstruction of the molecular makeup of a creature. When you're talking about changing something on a molecular level, no amount of regeneration stop that. Not to mention that once the Ork has been turned, it would cease to be an Ork, thus it's abilities to spawn new Orks would most likely be negated...or if it were not, it could spawn new indoctrinated Orks...a terrifying thought for those opposing the Reapers.
You're dang wrong on that. I can name at least 2 40k races that are superior to the Reapers in every way. The Necrons and the Tyranids.
Am I, though? Honestly, if you claim that only the Necrons and Tyranids are more advanced, why aren't the rest of the 40k races licking their boots? Sure, the Tyranids are very biologically advanced, but that serves just as much as a disadvantage as it is an advantage. Being almost exclusively biological leaves the entire race vulnerable to infection(or in the case of the Reapers, indoctrination, or molecular realignment), and no matter of biodiversity and evolutionary adaptation can resist every single pathogen. Nevertheless, evolutionarily superior does not equal most advanced, at least in technological terms. As for the Necrons, I would say they would be the closest to the Reapers in terms of technology, but even they had to be assisted by the C'tan to take on their machine form. Additionally, being machines, they could potentially fall victim to the Reapers, much like the Geth (more likely than not, though, it would only end up being the warriors, due to the fact that they're pretty much mindless machines). The biggest problem with these comparisons, though, is that the science of the ME universe is more based in reality than the 40k universe, which seriously ignores so many scientific laws it's not even funny, which turns this argument into a child's game of cops and robbers, where each kid says they shot the other....
Err, isn't it specifically stated that even when Genestealers try and Steal Ork Genes, the Orks eventually become Orks again?
Wouldn't that be an argument in favor of the Orks in the Reaper scenario?
Brother Coa wrote:And after Ork loot Reaper technology, well.....
Cuts both ways, though...the Reapers will most surely indoctrinate whatever Orks they could...indoctrinated Nobs fighting alongside brutes and banshees? Not a good time for anybody....
Orks can't be indoctrinated. Why? "Cuz Mork sez so!"
No really, the power behind the Waaagh! will repulse the indoctrinating fields.
I'd have to disagree...the Reapers would just have to toss them on the dragon's teeth, just like they do with the humans to turn them into husks...would replace their innards with bio-machinery. Even the biotically-strong Asari can't resist that...I'd say that the Orks would be plenty vulnerable.
I have to disagree on that. The Orks' fungal structure is too complicated for the Flood, let alone the nanomachines in the Teeth.
What makes it so complicated? If they can combine two creatures whose protein bases are incompatible (Turian and Krogan, in the form of a Brute), why can't they nanomolecularly work on a creature who is partially fungal? The key to the process are the nano machines, which work on the molecular level, which is sub-cellular, thus it can rearrange molecules within cells as it sees fit.
One word: the Thorian.
What about it? Sure, it's a huge, sentient plant, but it was not beneficial to the Reapers, else I'm sure they would have found a way to indoctrinate it. More likely than not, they would have just destroyed it, but I am sure that they could have adapted their methods of molecular reconstruction to turn it into a bionic machine.
What is being forgotten by a lot of these pro-Orks arguments is the fact that the Reapers are far more advanced than any of the races of the 40k universe. I understand that the Orks are nigh-incorruptible by psychic means, but what is being discussed here is not mind control, but the entire reconstruction of the molecular makeup of a creature. When you're talking about changing something on a molecular level, no amount of regeneration stop that. Not to mention that once the Ork has been turned, it would cease to be an Ork, thus it's abilities to spawn new Orks would most likely be negated...or if it were not, it could spawn new indoctrinated Orks...a terrifying thought for those opposing the Reapers.
You're dang wrong on that. I can name at least 2 40k races that are superior to the Reapers in every way. The Necrons and the Tyranids.
Am I, though? Honestly, if you claim that only the Necrons and Tyranids are more advanced, why aren't the rest of the 40k races licking their boots? Sure, the Tyranids are very biologically advanced, but that serves just as much as a disadvantage as it is an advantage. Being almost exclusively biological leaves the entire race vulnerable to infection(or in the case of the Reapers, indoctrination, or molecular realignment), and no matter of biodiversity and evolutionary adaptation can resist every single pathogen. Nevertheless, evolutionarily superior does not equal most advanced, at least in technological terms. As for the Necrons, I would say they would be the closest to the Reapers in terms of technology, but even they had to be assisted by the C'tan to take on their machine form. Additionally, being machines, they could potentially fall victim to the Reapers, much like the Geth (more likely than not, though, it would only end up being the warriors, due to the fact that they're pretty much mindless machines). The biggest problem with these comparisons, though, is that the science of the ME universe is more based in reality than the 40k universe, which seriously ignores so many scientific laws it's not even funny, which turns this argument into a child's game of cops and robbers, where each kid says they shot the other....
Wrong again. You obviously know nothing about the extent of the Tyranids and the Hive Mind. Firstly, they don't just take an age long nap in the dark space, they travel through it, without effort. Secondly, any of the Tyranid hive fleets is a bigger disaster than the Reapers. The Hive Mind controls the whole Tyranid race and can create the Shadow in the Warp in the process. Indoctrinating a bioform that's directly connected to the Hive Mind would be the biggest mistake the Reapers could do. And don't forget the Tyranids do on regular basis, what the Reapers take much longer to do: reproduce. I dread to think what would happen if the the Tyranids produced a bioform from Reaper material...
Now for the Necrons. Comparing them to the Geth (and the Reapers) is like comparing a toaster to the Skynet. They're millions of years old, which alone places them on par with the Reapers. Unlike the Reapers, they can also do things like resurrection, time alteration and phase shifting. Also, a Necron tomb ship can not only traverse the galaxy in hours without the Warp or Mass Relay, but also travel to Mars, while shrugging off fire from the Battlefleet Solar, which no Reaper could manage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
matphat wrote:Err, isn't it specifically stated that even when Genestealers try and Steal Ork Genes, the Orks eventually become Orks again?
Wouldn't that be an argument in favor of the Orks in the Reaper scenario?
matphat wrote:Err, isn't it specifically stated that even when Genestealers try and Steal Ork Genes, the Orks eventually become Orks again?
Wouldn't that be an argument in favor of the Orks in the Reaper scenario?
Well, if I'm not mistaken Mass Effect weapons are just as effective as modern day assault rifles since you don't gib anyone when you shoot someone with them. Lasguns, on the other hand, are much more potent that your standard ME Assault Rifle. And Orks can shrug off even Lasgun rounds. An Ork WAAAAAGGHHH would devastate the ME 'verse. What one must remember, though, is that the Warhammer 40k universe is designed to be really, really over the top while the Mass Effect universe was written with believability in mind. WH40k weaponry is stupidly, stupidly powerful. As for the Reapers... they are in between Imperium of Man and Tau, with some Necron mixed in.
With indoctrination, Orks would be incredibly difficult to indoctrinate. Besides the fact that Orks could take on the reapers in space combat, they are sort of... simple. And a few Boyz who started mumbling about the Reapers wouldn't make a difference in the vast ranks of them.
The size of their fleets puts even 40K's sense of scale to shame.
These are, effectively, singular planet-killers that arrive not in dozens, not in scores, not even by the hundreds, but by the thousands. Each one of them is far more powerful than the greatest ships we've seen in 40K, blowing other vessels utterly apart with a single lance-battery. Against the Tyranids? Whoopty-do... the smaller fighters will simply disintegrate on their energy shields, while the Reapers perform some "particle cannon surgery" on the Hive Ships by basically disintegrating them. I'd give a full-blown Hive Fleet a week, tops, before being utterly annihilated.
The size of their fleets puts even 40K's sense of scale to shame.
These are, effectively, singular planet-killers that arrive not in dozens, not in scores, not even by the hundreds, but by the thousands. Each one of them is far more powerful than the greatest ships we've seen in 40K, blowing other vessels utterly apart with a single lance-battery. Against the Tyranids? Whoopty-do... the smaller fighters will simply disintegrate on their energy shields, while the Reapers perform some "particle cannon surgery" on the Hive Ships by basically disintegrating them. I'd give a full-blown Hive Fleet a week, tops, before being utterly annihilated.
LOL!
Sorry, but that's the only reaction I could give. Saying the Reapers are stronger than the 40k races is like saying a 10 year old Jedi padawan is stronger than the Sith Emperor.
Firstly, the Reapers are only 2km large, so even the Imperial ships dwarf them utterly, and lance weapons are infinitely more powerful than those molten metal beams the Reapers use. Also, their KINETIC BARRIERS are absolutely useless against 90% of 40k weapons. Why? Because they're energy based and kinetic barriers offer no defense against energy weapons!
And the Tyranids are 1000 times more numerous than the Reapers and far more dangerous, if even the Necrons see them as an imminent danger. The Tyranids have already consumed more than 1000 galaxies in their history. The Reapers have only been squandering around the M.E. galaxy all the time.
TedNugent wrote:What the hell is an "energy weapon?"
A super powered beam of laser or plasma death <D
Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
TedNugent wrote:What the hell is an "energy weapon?"
A super powered beam of laser or plasma death <D
Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
You do realize that solid projectiles impart force via kinetic energy, right?
Do you also realize that lasers are just photons and that plasma is just ionized gas?
In fact, I just gave you a measure of the kinetic energy that is imparted by a Dreadnought class battleship weapon in Mass effect - 39 million Joules - Joules is a measure of kinetic energy.
Also, in the modern day we have non-solid weapons. HEAT anti-tank weapons like RPGs direct superheated gas at the armor.
TedNugent wrote:What the hell is an "energy weapon?"
A super powered beam of laser or plasma death <D
Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
You do realize that solid projectiles impart force via kinetic energy, right?
Do you also realize that lasers are just photons and that plasma is just ionized gas?
In fact, I just gave you a measure of the kinetic energy that is imparted by a Dreadnought class battleship weapon in Mass effect - 39 million Joules - Joules is a measure of kinetic energy.
Also, in the modern day we have non-solid weapons. HEAT anti-tank weapons like RPGs direct superheated gas at the armor.
You know what I meant -_-
Lasers and that sort. If I meant kinetic energy, I'd have said 'projectile weapons' or something like that.
But thanks for your input.
TedNugent wrote:[
In fact, I just gave you a measure of the kinetic energy that is imparted by a Dreadnought class battleship weapon in Mass effect - 39 million Joules - Joules is a measure of kinetic energy.
A Joule is a measure of energy, not specifically kinetic energy. Check your food packaging and you'll see the energy content listed in joules for chemical energy. Otherwise, I agree
It doesn't matter anyway 'cos Chuck Norris would be dragged trhough the same time/reality warp and ownx00r all!
Even knowing their biology and how to conquer it, the Imperium must spend immense amount of resources scouring even defeated orks from a planet (Source: Fifteen Hours)
I believe that someone without an understanding of ork biology and with the misconception that it operates anything like a normal humanoid would be drowned in newly-spawned orks continuously until they finally figured it out - which might be hard, as this is an out-of-context problem for the MEverse.
Unit1126PLL wrote:The orks would win only because of fungal spread.
Even knowing their biology and how to conquer it, the Imperium must spend immense amount of resources scouring even defeated orks from a planet (Source: Fifteen Hours)
I believe that someone without an understanding of ork biology and with the misconception that it operates anything like a normal humanoid would be drowned in newly-spawned orks continuously until they finally figured it out - which might be hard, as this is an out-of-context problem for the MEverse.
Support is appreciated You too think that indoctrination wouldn't work here?
Unit1126PLL wrote:The orks would win only because of fungal spread.
Even knowing their biology and how to conquer it, the Imperium must spend immense amount of resources scouring even defeated orks from a planet (Source: Fifteen Hours)
I believe that someone without an understanding of ork biology and with the misconception that it operates anything like a normal humanoid would be drowned in newly-spawned orks continuously until they finally figured it out - which might be hard, as this is an out-of-context problem for the MEverse.
Support is appreciated You too think that indoctrination wouldn't work here?
I'm not well-versed enough in the indoctrination method to say, but here's my guess.
Premises:
1) The Indoctrination Field works in any of the following ways:
a. psychic thought-imprinting
b. physical neuron-rearranging
c. direct mind control
d. neural repathing (similar to b)
2) The Orks are the same Orks as in 40k.
Conclusion:
The orks cannot be indoctrinated, because:
a. Their thoughts aren't thoughts at all but more like instinct - it would be like indoctrinating a plant.
b. Depending on your fluff source, orks may not even have neurons.
c. The Ork WAAGH belief system would more than likely override direct attempts at mind control through brute mental force.
d. Again, the existence of neurons in the Orkoid species is questionable at best.
Jidmah wrote:Indoctrination would turn orks against each other. Orks are already fighting each other without indoctrination, so what's the point?
The Orks would immediately unite if a challenge such as the Reapers showed up. And the Orks are also very paranoid. If they feel even a slight un-orkiness in some boyz, they immediately slaughter them. The tiny number of indoctrinated Orks would never make a difference.
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Actually, the weapons Reapers use just launch molten metal at the fraction of light speed, so they look like lasers, but I assure you they're not energy weapons.
And sorry if I made it seem that way. I know not all pro-ME people are blinded fanboys. But when he said that Reapers are superior to the 40k races, it just felt like an outrage...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong about the barriers too. Sure, they may sligthly affect energy weapons BUT! at least ninety percent of the energy in a plasma beam is light and heat. If kinetic barriers stopped those then the Normandy would have no need for heat sinks and a stealth system.
And a little addition on the Reaper weapons. They are in fact a magnetic "hydro-dynamic weapon", a more advanced version of the Thanix cannon.
Edit: Oops, my bad. I forgot it was you who said that about the races. ^^;
And one more thing on the KBs.
It is certainly possible, until you consider that directed energy weapons can and have been used on Earth despite the gravitational field, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRESTRIKE) and that generating a field from within a Reaper to deflect it would unfortunately cause the Reaper to crumple inwards like cheap tin, given that a 2km dreadnought would have to create a field at least as strong as that of the Earth.
I should know better than to get into these debates on this board, because, since this is a 40K fansite, then of course the 40k faction wins. It's really not worth discussing.
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Actually, the weapons Reapers use just launch molten metal at the fraction of light speed, so they look like lasers, but I assure you they're not energy weapons.
And sorry if I made it seem that way. I know not all pro-ME people are blinded fanboys. But when he said that Reapers are superior to the 40k races, it just felt like an outrage...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong about the barriers too. Sure, they may sligthly affect energy weapons BUT! at least ninety percent of the energy in a plasma beam is light and heat. If kinetic barriers stopped those then the Normandy would have no need for heat sinks and a stealth system.
And a little addition on the Reaper weapons. They are in fact a magnetic "hydro-dynamic weapon", a more advanced version of the Thanix cannon.
I disagree with you on plasma. The light and heat is created when a plasma interacts with other particles (which, in actuality, precludes their use in an atmospheric environment...but that's another topic). A plasma is merely an ionized gas; charged particles. Sure, they give off light, but that's about as damaging as the light given off by a bolt of lightning (which, in fact, is a form of plasma). Plasmas can easily be contained by a strong magnetic field, which I would venture to say, would make the kinetic barriers more effective against a plasma than a kinetic energy weapon.
As for other energy weapons (lasers, particle beams, etc.), as I stated, by modulating a ME field, you could create a gravitational sinkhole to deflect the beam. Light is most definitely affected by gravity, as is evident by gravitational lensing of light around black holes and neutron stars. I would venture to guess that about the only possible weapon that an ME field couldn't affect would be a melta-type (although I'm not sure of that, either, because I'm not 100% sure as to what method that heat energy is projected).
I'm not trying to say that ME fields would render Reapers invincible, as power limitations would only be able to deflect so much energy, be it kinetic or energy based. I'm just saying that ME fields are a lot more versatile and effective than you're giving them credit for.
Psienesis wrote:I should know better than to get into these debates on this board, because, since this is a 40K fansite, then of course the 40k faction wins. It's really not worth discussing.
This discussion was meant to stay in the reasonable boundaries. I hope it still is...
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Actually, the weapons Reapers use just launch molten metal at the fraction of light speed, so they look like lasers, but I assure you they're not energy weapons.
And sorry if I made it seem that way. I know not all pro-ME people are blinded fanboys. But when he said that Reapers are superior to the 40k races, it just felt like an outrage...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong about the barriers too. Sure, they may sligthly affect energy weapons BUT! at least ninety percent of the energy in a plasma beam is light and heat. If kinetic barriers stopped those then the Normandy would have no need for heat sinks and a stealth system.
And a little addition on the Reaper weapons. They are in fact a magnetic "hydro-dynamic weapon", a more advanced version of the Thanix cannon.
I disagree with you on plasma. The light and heat is created when a plasma interacts with other particles (which, in actuality, precludes their use in an atmospheric environment...but that's another topic). A plasma is merely an ionized gas; charged particles. Sure, they give off light, but that's about as damaging as the light given off by a bolt of lightning (which, in fact, is a form of plasma). Plasmas can easily be contained by a strong magnetic field, which I would venture to say, would make the kinetic barriers more effective against a plasma than a kinetic energy weapon.
As for other energy weapons (lasers, particle beams, etc.), as I stated, by modulating a ME field, you could create a gravitational sinkhole to deflect the beam. Light is most definitely affected by gravity, as is evident by gravitational lensing of light around black holes and neutron stars. I would venture to guess that about the only possible weapon that an ME field couldn't affect would be a melta-type (although I'm not sure of that, either, because I'm not 100% sure as to what method that heat energy is projected).
I'm not trying to say that ME fields would render Reapers invincible, as power limitations would only be able to deflect so much energy, be it kinetic or energy based. I'm just saying that ME fields are a lot more versatile and effective than you're giving them credit for.
Wow, you know much about this stuff, but I still can't agree with you. Directed Energy Weapons don't just consist of plasma, but also high intensity light weapons and light would get through, otherwise the KBs would be completely opaque.
The Codex itself says that Kinetic Barriers are mass effect fields, not magnetic fields and that they don't protect against extremes of heat, toxins and radiation.
Psienesis wrote:I should know better than to get into these debates on this board, because, since this is a 40K fansite, then of course the 40k faction wins. It's really not worth discussing.
This discussion was meant to stay in the reasonable boundaries. I hope it still is...
I'm a huge 40k fan, as well as a ME fan. Could probably say I'm a fanboy for both, it's just that I don't really believe that 40k is the "be all, end all" in terms of power. I know I said it, and at least one other person said it, but 40k is totally off-the-wall, barely rooted in reality, whereas ME is more rooted in reality in terms of technology. 40k also has 25 years of background fluff, retcons, etc. that can be drawn from, where ME has only been around for about 5. Regardless...I think that there are several key arguments that swing in favor of the Reapers being a more serious threat than folks draw them out to be...that's why I'm arguing in the case of them.
Psienesis wrote:I should know better than to get into these debates on this board, because, since this is a 40K fansite, then of course the 40k faction wins. It's really not worth discussing.
This discussion was meant to stay in the reasonable boundaries. I hope it still is...
I'm a huge 40k fan, as well as a ME fan. Could probably say I'm a fanboy for both, it's just that I don't really believe that 40k is the "be all, end all" in terms of power. I know I said it, and at least one other person said it, but 40k is totally off-the-wall, barely rooted in reality, whereas ME is more rooted in reality in terms of technology. 40k also has 25 years of background fluff, retcons, etc. that can be drawn from, where ME has only been around for about 5. Regardless...I think that there are several key arguments that swing in favor of the Reapers being a more serious threat than folks draw them out to be...that's why I'm arguing in the case of them.
I could say I'm probably a 2-way fanboy here as well <<
And true about the age.
And what could those arguements be? This I gotta hear
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Actually, the weapons Reapers use just launch molten metal at the fraction of light speed, so they look like lasers, but I assure you they're not energy weapons.
And sorry if I made it seem that way. I know not all pro-ME people are blinded fanboys. But when he said that Reapers are superior to the 40k races, it just felt like an outrage...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong about the barriers too. Sure, they may sligthly affect energy weapons BUT! at least ninety percent of the energy in a plasma beam is light and heat. If kinetic barriers stopped those then the Normandy would have no need for heat sinks and a stealth system.
And a little addition on the Reaper weapons. They are in fact a magnetic "hydro-dynamic weapon", a more advanced version of the Thanix cannon.
I disagree with you on plasma. The light and heat is created when a plasma interacts with other particles (which, in actuality, precludes their use in an atmospheric environment...but that's another topic). A plasma is merely an ionized gas; charged particles. Sure, they give off light, but that's about as damaging as the light given off by a bolt of lightning (which, in fact, is a form of plasma). Plasmas can easily be contained by a strong magnetic field, which I would venture to say, would make the kinetic barriers more effective against a plasma than a kinetic energy weapon.
As for other energy weapons (lasers, particle beams, etc.), as I stated, by modulating a ME field, you could create a gravitational sinkhole to deflect the beam. Light is most definitely affected by gravity, as is evident by gravitational lensing of light around black holes and neutron stars. I would venture to guess that about the only possible weapon that an ME field couldn't affect would be a melta-type (although I'm not sure of that, either, because I'm not 100% sure as to what method that heat energy is projected).
I'm not trying to say that ME fields would render Reapers invincible, as power limitations would only be able to deflect so much energy, be it kinetic or energy based. I'm just saying that ME fields are a lot more versatile and effective than you're giving them credit for.
Wow, you know much about this stuff, but I still can't agree with you. Directed Energy Weapons don't just consist of plasma, but also high intensity light weapons and light would get through, otherwise the KBs would be completely opaque.
The Codex itself says that Kinetic Barriers are mass effect fields, not magnetic fields and that they don't protect against extremes of heat, toxins and radiation.
The Codex does state (I'd have to be at home to find a direct quote on it...work computer blocks a lot) that the method the ME field uses for stopping projectiles is a strong magnetic force that effects even non-ferrous materials. You are right on about heat, toxins, and radiation, and I don't disagree with you on that (although I'm sure that there would be a way to modulate an ME field to block those...might take time to research that capability, though).
You are kind of cherry picking my arguments, though, as I never stated that all DE weapons are plasma-based, and I never claimed that a KB would block a light-based energy weapon. I'm not disputing that a normal KB won't block or deflect a laser, I said that you could modulate an ME field to create a gravitational sinkhole to deflect a light-based weapon. You mentioned that something like that would crush the reaper like a tin can, but all you have to do is contain a warp field in a ME field (much like tech armor does) to create this gravitational sinkhole, thus deflecting the beam.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:
Psienesis wrote:I should know better than to get into these debates on this board, because, since this is a 40K fansite, then of course the 40k faction wins. It's really not worth discussing.
This discussion was meant to stay in the reasonable boundaries. I hope it still is...
I'm a huge 40k fan, as well as a ME fan. Could probably say I'm a fanboy for both, it's just that I don't really believe that 40k is the "be all, end all" in terms of power. I know I said it, and at least one other person said it, but 40k is totally off-the-wall, barely rooted in reality, whereas ME is more rooted in reality in terms of technology. 40k also has 25 years of background fluff, retcons, etc. that can be drawn from, where ME has only been around for about 5. Regardless...I think that there are several key arguments that swing in favor of the Reapers being a more serious threat than folks draw them out to be...that's why I'm arguing in the case of them.
I could say I'm probably a 2-way fanboy here as well <<
And true about the age.
And what could those arguements be? This I gotta hear
The Reapers number in at least the tens of thousands, and are huge, sentient machines capable of rending most other space vessels to slag (yes, I know they're not as big a some of the biggest 40k ships, but I'd like to see a few dozen ships survive an onslaught of thousands of Reapers...not saying that the Reapers wouldn't lose some...but thousands of 1-2km size class ships is a force not to be ignored).
The Reapers are capable of indoctrination and are highly adept at creating foot soldiers out of living and fallen enemies (something that there is really no end to in the 40k universe). They have a huge pool of possible troops, especially in the form of the IoM.
While it can be disputed that the Necrons might not be susceptible to the Reaper Code like the Geth (I still think they could control Warriors), IoM machines containing a Machine Spirit (which I understand to be an AI), could potentially fall under control of the Reapers, and a Reaper-controlled Titan would be terrifying.
Some folks (it was in another similar thread) feel as if the Reapers can't reproduce, which is false. Sure, it takes a while (a few months, is what it seems like, based upon the timeline in ME2), but that capability is terrifying, too, especially if they start harvesting, say, Orks, which would potentially turn into a Reaper that self-reproduces upon destruction, since the Reapers take on many of the traits of the creatures harvested to create them.
These are some of my main arguments that I feel put the Reapers on the level of the Tyranids in terms of threat to the galaxy.
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Actually, the weapons Reapers use just launch molten metal at the fraction of light speed, so they look like lasers, but I assure you they're not energy weapons.
And sorry if I made it seem that way. I know not all pro-ME people are blinded fanboys. But when he said that Reapers are superior to the 40k races, it just felt like an outrage...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:Contrary to what the Mass Effect fanboiz believe A) Reaper weapons are not energy based. Only the Collectors had particle beams and the Occuli have small lasers and B) Kinetic Barriers only work against solid projectiles, not Directed Energy Weapons!!!>
The first part of your statement is false. A Reaper's main weapon is in fact a DE weapon.
The second part of your statement is true that kinetic barriers are in fact used to block projectiles (plasma would be included, as a KB works by creating a magnetic field, and a plasma is a collection of charged particles, thus affected by said magnetic field), however it would be possible to modify one to deflect energy weapons. This would be possible by modulating the Mass Effect field to create a gravitational field that could deflect an energy weapon.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the weapons in ME are of the same level of strength as modern day firearms. This is true, however the projectiles are thousands of times smaller than modern projectiles, just accelerated to much, much higher velocities. The only limitations on weapons, as stated in the ME Codex, is the fact that the projectiles are still subject to the laws of physics, thus a weapon still has recoil. Utilizing a ME field, as in the M920 Cain, it is possible to create energies on the level of a small nuke on an easily man-portable level.
Off-topic: Grand_Zamboa, I find it somewhat condescending that you state the superiority of everything 40k, then call those of us arguing in favor of Reaper technology "fanboiz." We don't need to devolve a discussion to inflammatory comments like that, as they serve no purpose in this discussion but to undermine your credibility.
Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong about the barriers too. Sure, they may sligthly affect energy weapons BUT! at least ninety percent of the energy in a plasma beam is light and heat. If kinetic barriers stopped those then the Normandy would have no need for heat sinks and a stealth system.
And a little addition on the Reaper weapons. They are in fact a magnetic "hydro-dynamic weapon", a more advanced version of the Thanix cannon.
I disagree with you on plasma. The light and heat is created when a plasma interacts with other particles (which, in actuality, precludes their use in an atmospheric environment...but that's another topic). A plasma is merely an ionized gas; charged particles. Sure, they give off light, but that's about as damaging as the light given off by a bolt of lightning (which, in fact, is a form of plasma). Plasmas can easily be contained by a strong magnetic field, which I would venture to say, would make the kinetic barriers more effective against a plasma than a kinetic energy weapon.
As for other energy weapons (lasers, particle beams, etc.), as I stated, by modulating a ME field, you could create a gravitational sinkhole to deflect the beam. Light is most definitely affected by gravity, as is evident by gravitational lensing of light around black holes and neutron stars. I would venture to guess that about the only possible weapon that an ME field couldn't affect would be a melta-type (although I'm not sure of that, either, because I'm not 100% sure as to what method that heat energy is projected).
I'm not trying to say that ME fields would render Reapers invincible, as power limitations would only be able to deflect so much energy, be it kinetic or energy based. I'm just saying that ME fields are a lot more versatile and effective than you're giving them credit for.
Wow, you know much about this stuff, but I still can't agree with you. Directed Energy Weapons don't just consist of plasma, but also high intensity light weapons and light would get through, otherwise the KBs would be completely opaque.
The Codex itself says that Kinetic Barriers are mass effect fields, not magnetic fields and that they don't protect against extremes of heat, toxins and radiation.
The Codex does state (I'd have to be at home to find a direct quote on it...work computer blocks a lot) that the method the ME field uses for stopping projectiles is a strong magnetic force that effects even non-ferrous materials. You are right on about heat, toxins, and radiation, and I don't disagree with you on that (although I'm sure that there would be a way to modulate an ME field to block those...might take time to research that capability, though).
You are kind of cherry picking my arguments, though, as I never stated that all DE weapons are plasma-based, and I never claimed that a KB would block a light-based energy weapon. I'm not disputing that a normal KB won't block or deflect a laser, I said that you could modulate an ME field to create a gravitational sinkhole to deflect a light-based weapon. You mentioned that something like that would crush the reaper like a tin can, but all you have to do is contain a warp field in a ME field (much like tech armor does) to create this gravitational sinkhole, thus deflecting the beam.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:
spectreoneone wrote:
Grand_Zamboa wrote:
Psienesis wrote:I should know better than to get into these debates on this board, because, since this is a 40K fansite, then of course the 40k faction wins. It's really not worth discussing.
This discussion was meant to stay in the reasonable boundaries. I hope it still is...
I'm a huge 40k fan, as well as a ME fan. Could probably say I'm a fanboy for both, it's just that I don't really believe that 40k is the "be all, end all" in terms of power. I know I said it, and at least one other person said it, but 40k is totally off-the-wall, barely rooted in reality, whereas ME is more rooted in reality in terms of technology. 40k also has 25 years of background fluff, retcons, etc. that can be drawn from, where ME has only been around for about 5. Regardless...I think that there are several key arguments that swing in favor of the Reapers being a more serious threat than folks draw them out to be...that's why I'm arguing in the case of them.
I could say I'm probably a 2-way fanboy here as well <<
And true about the age.
And what could those arguements be? This I gotta hear
The Reapers number in at least the tens of thousands, and are huge, sentient machines capable of rending most other space vessels to slag (yes, I know they're not as big a some of the biggest 40k ships, but I'd like to see a few dozen ships survive an onslaught of thousands of Reapers...not saying that the Reapers wouldn't lose some...but thousands of 1-2km size class ships is a force not to be ignored).
The Reapers are capable of indoctrination and are highly adept at creating foot soldiers out of living and fallen enemies (something that there is really no end to in the 40k universe). They have a huge pool of possible troops, especially in the form of the IoM.
While it can be disputed that the Necrons might not be susceptible to the Reaper Code like the Geth (I still think they could control Warriors), IoM machines containing a Machine Spirit (which I understand to be an AI), could potentially fall under control of the Reapers, and a Reaper-controlled Titan would be terrifying.
Some folks (it was in another similar thread) feel as if the Reapers can't reproduce, which is false. Sure, it takes a while (a few months, is what it seems like, based upon the timeline in ME2), but that capability is terrifying, too, especially if they start harvesting, say, Orks, which would potentially turn into a Reaper that self-reproduces upon destruction, since the Reapers take on many of the traits of the creatures harvested to create them.
These are some of my main arguments that I feel put the Reapers on the level of the Tyranids in terms of threat to the galaxy.
I'm not trying to act insulting or something and I something get carried away <<;
Now...
First thing to deal with. The Kinetic Barriers are not in any way magnetic fields. The are repulsive Mass Effect fields which are created by the increase or decreaser of mass over a given area not the introduction of electromagnetic fields. The creation of a gravitational sinkhole to deflect light based weaponry is possible, but the amount of power and the high levels of gravity you would need to bend a highly focussed beam of light like a GARDIAN laser would be extreme enough that it would be at least detrimental to the Reaper, not least because it would require that power be diverted from other systems. There is only so much power that one ship can generate.
And the Reapers, well, the numbers advantage, tens of thousands, is negated by the fact that the 40k universe possesses electromagnetic pulse weaponry which fries circuitry. They can create as many husks as they like, it doesn't help when their tech just stops working.
There's no evidence that the Reapers can control true AI. The Geth are called an AI, but ME also states that Legion wants to upload the Reaper Code to the Geth to achieve true intelligence, meaning that they are no fully AI to begin with.
In fact, EDI repulses the attempt by the Collector General to attack the Normandy during the Collector Ship mission and the general is controlled by Harbinger.
As for the possibility of harvesting Orks, the Protheans have shown that not all species are actually capable of becoming Reapers. Some are biologically incompatible. I'm not sure why, but there's a chance that the Orkz might not be able to become a Reaper. Despite that, the Reapers do appear to be made of the same material as the Relays and the only way to destroy those was with an asteroid drop.
Personally, I'd put the Reapers on ther same level as the canon Imperium of Man given how much tech was lost, but definitely not on the level of the Tyranids.
Well, if it's all these Reapers with their Husks, Indoctrinated Slaves and sheer Firepower against a lone WAAAAAGGHH!!... I think da Boyz would have hell of a fight on their hands. Though, I think they could easily take the Citadel. But in a protracted War they might end up like they are with the IoM. A looted Reaper would be something I'd like to see.
TheCustomLime wrote:Well, if it's all these Reapers with their Husks, Indoctrinated Slaves and sheer Firepower against a lone WAAAAAGGHH!!... I think da Boyz would have hell of a fight on their hands. Though, I think they could easily take the Citadel. But in a protracted War they might end up like they are with the IoM. A looted Reaper would be something I'd like to see.
@Grand_Zamboa
The sheer Orkiness... it's bootiful.
Another thing that against the Orks in their war is that a lot of their stuff is looted from the Imperium. IIRC, a lot of their stuff is built on instinct, but as their stolen IoM stuff got destroyed they would have to rely more and more on Mass Effect stuff. As the war progressed, I'd imagine their threat level would go down as casualties and tech loss mounted. At the end of ME3, they would be another species in the galaxy that while tough, isn't too much of a problem. However, as they say, it's hard to keep a good Ork down...
TheCustomLime wrote:@Grand_Zamboa
The sheer Orkiness... it's bootiful.
Another thing that against the Orks in their war is that a lot of their stuff is looted from the Imperium. IIRC, a lot of their stuff is built on instinct, but as their stolen IoM stuff got destroyed they would have to rely more and more on Mass Effect stuff. As the war progressed, I'd imagine their threat level would go down as casualties and tech loss mounted. At the end of ME3, they would be another species in the galaxy that while tough, isn't too much of a problem. However, as they say, it's hard to keep a good Ork down...
Yea, lol.
But you're forgetting how fast Orks reproduce. Losses are never an issue to them. And the stuff Orks build on instinct is good enough. Take Kustom Forcefield, Kustom Tellyporta or Shokk Attack Gun for example...
Very, very true. Orks are also adept at making powerful weapons out of nothing, so they could make a slugga out of a Predator pistol. One must also consider how united the races of the Citadel are, though.
Salarian Commander: "Men, we will be fighting an enemy using weapons that are light years ahead of us, are completely resistant to our own firearms, and are innumerable".
Salarian trooper: "Will we hold the line, commander?".
Commander: "No! We are going to drown them with our dead! Move it, you dogs!"
Vaktathi wrote:The orks just need some color filters on explosives and they can beat anything the ME universe can toss at them
LOL...okay, now you're just getting ridiculous...
Red explosions, Blue explosions, Green explosions!
XD
In all seriousness though, ME3 ending jokes aside, Orks are fantasy universe creatures in SPAAAACE, Mass Effect is much more traditional scifi, comparing the two is rather difficult.
Vaktathi wrote:The orks just need some color filters on explosives and they can beat anything the ME universe can toss at them
LOL...okay, now you're just getting ridiculous...
Red explosions, Blue explosions, Green explosions!
XD
In all seriousness though, ME3 ending jokes aside, Orks are fantasy universe creatures in SPAAAACE, Mass Effect is much more traditional scifi, comparing the two is rather difficult.
Da red wuns explode fasta! Da blues ones splode luckier, see?
TheCustomLime wrote:@Grand_Zamboa
The sheer Orkiness... it's bootiful.
Another thing that against the Orks in their war is that a lot of their stuff is looted from the Imperium. IIRC, a lot of their stuff is built on instinct, but as their stolen IoM stuff got destroyed they would have to rely more and more on Mass Effect stuff. As the war progressed, I'd imagine their threat level would go down as casualties and tech loss mounted. At the end of ME3, they would be another species in the galaxy that while tough, isn't too much of a problem. However, as they say, it's hard to keep a good Ork down...
A good thing to remember about the Orks is that despite the fact that they loot a lot from the Imperium, it is often due to them liking how it looks or because it would be more work to build it themselves, rather than being unable to build the technology themselves. I concede that their looted Imperial tech is generally more reliable due to superior construction, but they wouldn't just take ME tech, paint it red, and use it....though they would still paint it red. They'd gut all the useless bitz out and add their own weapons: which would be unrealiable, but potentially powerful since they can go from barely sparking to blowing up a Baneblade in the space of two shots.
Edit: Oh, one other thing. Biotics meets the Wierdboy, anyone?
Vaktathi wrote:The orks just need some color filters on explosives and they can beat anything the ME universe can toss at them
LOL...okay, now you're just getting ridiculous...
Red explosions, Blue explosions, Green explosions!
XD
In all seriousness though, ME3 ending jokes aside, Orks are fantasy universe creatures in SPAAAACE, Mass Effect is much more traditional scifi, comparing the two is rather difficult.
Da red wuns explode fasta! Da blues ones splode luckier, see?
I didn't know about the blue. Thx for enlightening me
One thing I kind of want to note, however, that could be a potential game-changer in this entire argument is that the OP did say that the Orks came into the ME universe.
Here's my question...do the Orks have to obey the laws of physics/science in the ME universe, or do we assume that they bring their rules with them? Just a thought on that.
Now...
Grand_Zamboa wrote:First thing to deal with. The Kinetic Barriers are not in any way magnetic fields. The are repulsive Mass Effect fields which are created by the increase or decreaser of mass over a given area not the introduction of electromagnetic fields. The creation of a gravitational sinkhole to deflect light based weaponry is possible, but the amount of power and the high levels of gravity you would need to bend a highly focussed beam of light like a GARDIAN laser would be extreme enough that it would be at least detrimental to the Reaper, not least because it would require that power be diverted from other systems. There is only so much power that one ship can generate.
And the Reapers, well, the numbers advantage, tens of thousands, is negated by the fact that the 40k universe possesses electromagnetic pulse weaponry which fries circuitry. They can create as many husks as they like, it doesn't help when their tech just stops working.
There's no evidence that the Reapers can control true AI. The Geth are called an AI, but ME also states that Legion wants to upload the Reaper Code to the Geth to achieve true intelligence, meaning that they are no fully AI to begin with.
In fact, EDI repulses the attempt by the Collector General to attack the Normandy during the Collector Ship mission and the general is controlled by Harbinger.
As for the possibility of harvesting Orks, the Protheans have shown that not all species are actually capable of becoming Reapers. Some are biologically incompatible. I'm not sure why, but there's a chance that the Orkz might not be able to become a Reaper. Despite that, the Reapers do appear to be made of the same material as the Relays and the only way to destroy those was with an asteroid drop.
Personally, I'd put the Reapers on ther same level as the canon Imperium of Man given how much tech was lost, but definitely not on the level of the Tyranids.
Like I said, I'll have to look up the ME field thing at home, but I do recall that the Codex stated about the ME field inducing a magnetic field to stop kinetic rounds...I will check it out, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...gimme a couple hours.
As for your EMP argument...it's not hard to harden electronic systems against an EMP (current day technology on military hardware succeeds in doing this). Now, considering that Reapers are biomechanical, not strictly mechanical, an EMP would potentially have a limited effect. Additionally, an EMP is difficult to create in the vacuum of space, as it relies on the ionization of particles to create the pulse (there are actually two sweet spots for nuclear weapons to create a strong EMP; a detonation near the surface, and a detonation in the Ionosphere, outside of those ranges, and the effect of a nuclear weapon's EMP is severly diminished). And if it were honestly that simple to bring down a Reaper, the races in the ME universe would have simply used low-yield nuclear weapons against the Reapers (since a lower yield nuclear weapon produces a stronger pulse than a higher one).
Addressing the AI part...it's somewhat arguable as to the effect the Reaper code would have on the Machine Spirits. True, the Reapers were not able to take control of EDI, but she was a unique case. Are the Machine Spirits self-aware? I would argue that maybe some are (I honestly haven't read up enough on the Machine Spirits of Titans, which would be the ones that I'd expect to have the highest chance of being self-aware), most are not, and could most likely be compared to a ME VI, not a true AI. I would say that the Reaper Code being able to infect the Geth would give it potential to cause serious harm to the IoM, and as I stated before, possibly Necron Warriors (which, as I understand, are merely mindless machines).
As for Reapers harvesting Orks...we honestly could go back and forth on this one all day...both sides have valid arguments as to why it would work or not. No sense in beating it to death, so I'd venture to say that's a stalemate.
As for your last statement, I'm assuming that you at least agree with me on the fact that the Reapers wouldn't just be brushed aside in the grimdark of 40k? I think they'd be like any of the races in 40k..if the others joined forces and unilaterally attacked, they'd be wiped out. And, honestly...I think the Reapers would fit pretty well into 40k...they seem pretty grimdark to me.
I think the Orks would be mauled fighting the Reapers, because the Reapers have good technology, troops and numbers. I don't think they would be exterminated by the end of ME3, but a lot of boyz are going to die. But, the Orks could and would hold their own against Systems Alliance Marines, Asari commandos, Turian Hierarchy troops and STG forces. It would be a long and devastating war of attrition, and I'd imagine the Citadel forces would come out on top, but the Orks would just come back again and again for more. Then there would be the problem of Ork infestations on any liberated colonies.
Has anyone taken the krogan into account? Whenever there's a problem that the citadel races can't handle they throw the krogan at it. It would just be a repeat of the rachni wars.
do you hear the voices to wrote:Has anyone taken the krogan into account? Whenever there's a problem that the citadel races can't handle they throw the krogan at it. It would just be a repeat of the rachni wars.
Except the Orks would eat the Rachni for lunch and rough the Krogan up for the lolz.
do you hear the voices to wrote:Has anyone taken the krogan into account? Whenever there's a problem that the citadel races can't handle they throw the krogan at it. It would just be a repeat of the rachni wars.
The Krogan are like ME's Orks...if it weren't for the Genophage, they'd be infesting the galaxy in much the same way as the Orks do in 40k
do you hear the voices to wrote:Has anyone taken the krogan into account? Whenever there's a problem that the citadel races can't handle they throw the krogan at it. It would just be a repeat of the rachni wars.
The Krogan are like ME's Orks...if it weren't for the Genophage, they'd be infesting the galaxy in much the same way as the Orks do in 40k
Agreed, except they don't spread by spores and need to be raised from childhood. An Ork knows everything it needs already. I think.
do you hear the voices to wrote:Has anyone taken the krogan into account? Whenever there's a problem that the citadel races can't handle they throw the krogan at it. It would just be a repeat of the rachni wars.
The Krogan are like ME's Orks...if it weren't for the Genophage, they'd be infesting the galaxy in much the same way as the Orks do in 40k
Agreed, except they don't spread by spores and need to be raised from childhood. An Ork knows everything it needs already. I think.
True, they don't spread by spores, but they reproduce quickly, and I'm fairly certain Krogan mature quickly.
ME Spoiler alert:
Spoiler:
After curing the Genophage, the Krogan will undoubtably spread like wildfire...the Genophage itself was created in response to the huge threat they posed after the end of the Rachni wars. It was stated that they would need several new worlds to inhabit to support this explosion in population. Add to that fact that Krogan can survive in some seriously harsh environments, I would say that puts them toe to toe with the Greenskins. The Krogan are brutes who can shrug off pain and damage much like the Orks...I'd say we'd have an interesting fight to see them go against each other.
TheCustomLime wrote:I think the Orks would be mauled fighting the Reapers, because the Reapers have good technology, troops and numbers. I don't think they would be exterminated by the end of ME3, but a lot of boyz are going to die. But, the Orks could and would hold their own against Systems Alliance Marines, Asari commandos, Turian Hierarchy troops and STG forces. It would be a long and devastating war of attrition, and I'd imagine the Citadel forces would come out on top, but the Orks would just come back again and again for more. Then there would be the problem of Ork infestations on any liberated colonies.
You would be quite correct...if this was about feral Orks armed with bows/arrows, choppas, and pointy stikks. Space-borne Orks, not so much. Ork kroozers are generally (not always, since each ship is kustomized) the size of Imperial cruiser equivalents, which in turn easily dwarf Reapers (which Grand_Zamboa said they were 2km, though I thought they were 4km, but it remains true in either case) in the case of big ones and are at least the same size in the case of smaller or lighter vessels. God help them if one of the kroozers is built up to Imperial Battleship tonnage.
Technology: despite how it looks, Ork teknologee is not nearly as primitive as it looks. In fact, I'd be willing to say that it is nearly as advanced as Imperial tech. Not only that, the Orks don't simply know how to build it, the knowledge required is hardwired into their brains. From the moment they pop out of the ground, an Ork knows everything he needs to start gettin' stukk in wit da WAAAAGH! Ork tek is undeniably less reliable than the tech of any race, 40k or ME, but it is superior in technological level to most examples of ME tech.
Troops: Ork boyz alone can take dozens of lasgun bolts before going down, and pain for them is more exciting than debilitating. Nobz are big enough to take on a squad of Imperial infantry without even getting a scar (which would be quite a disappointment for the Nob in question), and Guardsmen are armed with more powerful weaponry than at least the non-Reaper races, though maybe just as strong as Collectors and other Reaper-affiliated soldiers. And da Warboss...well...he lived long enough to get that big for a good reason, and now he's got the size and strength in addition to whatever let him live that long. Biotics? Meet the Wierdboy.
Numbers: perhaps the Reapers would have an advantage here for a while. They do number in the thousands, after all. But the Orks have one thing going for them - they reproduce at a rate that puts rabbits to shame. Even counting losses, the moment a planet was infected with Ork spores, they'd start erupting from the ground fast enough to make up for losses with more than a little bonus. Numbers wouldn't be against the Orks for very long.
TheCustomLime wrote:I think the Orks would be mauled fighting the Reapers, because the Reapers have good technology, troops and numbers. I don't think they would be exterminated by the end of ME3, but a lot of boyz are going to die. But, the Orks could and would hold their own against Systems Alliance Marines, Asari commandos, Turian Hierarchy troops and STG forces. It would be a long and devastating war of attrition, and I'd imagine the Citadel forces would come out on top, but the Orks would just come back again and again for more. Then there would be the problem of Ork infestations on any liberated colonies.
You would be quite correct...if this was about feral Orks armed with bows/arrows, choppas, and pointy stikks. Space-borne Orks, not so much. Ork kroozers are generally (not always, since each ship is kustomized) the size of Imperial cruiser equivalents, which in turn easily dwarf Reapers (which Grand_Zamboa said they were 2km, though I thought they were 4km, but it remains true in either case) in the case of big ones and are at least the same size in the case of smaller or lighter vessels. God help them if one of the kroozers is built up to Imperial Battleship tonnage.
Technology: despite how it looks, Ork teknologee is not nearly as primitive as it looks. In fact, I'd be willing to say that it is nearly as advanced as Imperial tech. Not only that, the Orks don't simply know how to build it, the knowledge required is hardwired into their brains. From the moment they pop out of the ground, an Ork knows everything he needs to start gettin' stukk in wit da WAAAAGH! Ork tek is undeniably less reliable than the tech of any race, 40k or ME, but it is superior in technological level to most examples of ME tech.
Troops: Ork boyz alone can take dozens of lasgun bolts before going down, and pain for them is more exciting than debilitating. Nobz are big enough to take on a squad of Imperial infantry without even getting a scar (which would be quite a disappointment for the Nob in question), and Guardsmen are armed with more powerful weaponry than at least the non-Reaper races, though maybe just as strong as Collectors and other Reaper-affiliated soldiers. And da Warboss...well...he lived long enough to get that big for a good reason, and now he's got the size and strength in addition to whatever let him live that long. Biotics? Meet the Wierdboy.
Numbers: perhaps the Reapers would have an advantage here for a while. They do number in the thousands, after all. But the Orks have one thing going for them - they reproduce at a rate that puts rabbits to shame. Even counting losses, the moment a planet was infected with Ork spores, they'd start erupting from the ground fast enough to make up for losses with more than a little bonus. Numbers wouldn't be against the Orks for very long.
To me the main deciding factor has not been covered. How big is the WAAAAGH!? Are we talking about a single Rok and a few ships? Or a dozen roks? or are we talking about a a major unseen event like the mobilization of most if not all orks in a Segmentum, well then the reapers and everyone else are well and truly screwed.
I think the kinetic barriers would be able to block energy weapons, actually.
Energy weapons, despite the name, are not actually pure energy.
Consider Lasers. Lasers work, quite simply by bombarding the target with intense light. This is made possible with photons, or light particles.
Ergo, as lasers use particles to inflict damage, and Kinetic Barriers are designed to block particles, I think they would offer some protection.
However, there is also the fact that light particles can act like a wave...not really sure if that would have an effect however :/
CthuluIsSpy wrote:I think the kinetic barriers would be able to block energy weapons, actually.
Energy weapons, despite the name, are not actually pure energy.
Consider Lasers. Lasers work, quite simply by bombarding the target with intense light. This is made possible with photons, or light particles.
Ergo, as lasers use particles to inflict damage, and Kinetic Barriers are designed to block particles, I think they would offer some protection.
However, there is also the fact that light particles can act like a wave...not really sure if that would have an effect however :/
Oh, not this again -_-
If KBs could block particles, the first Normandy wouldn't have been destroyed at the beginning of ME2.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hunterindarkness wrote:To me the main deciding factor has not been covered. How big is the WAAAAGH!? Are we talking about a single Rok and a few ships? Or a dozen roks? or are we talking about a a major unseen event like the mobilization of most if not all orks in a Segmentum, well then the reapers and everyone else are well and truly screwed.
You're right, I never specified that :/
Let's say it's a bunch of roks and kroozers. Like the fleet that attacked the forge world in Space Marine.
Seriously though, I would put money on the average krogan to beat the average ork. It might take a couple krogan to beat a nob. As far as a warboss, that would be a rough fight, but hey, lets not forget that Urdnot Wrex single handedly killed a thresher maw. That has to count for something.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:I think the kinetic barriers would be able to block energy weapons, actually. Energy weapons, despite the name, are not actually pure energy.
Consider Lasers. Lasers work, quite simply by bombarding the target with intense light. This is made possible with photons, or light particles. Ergo, as lasers use particles to inflict damage, and Kinetic Barriers are designed to block particles, I think they would offer some protection.
However, there is also the fact that light particles can act like a wave...not really sure if that would have an effect however :/
Oh, not this again -_-
If KBs could block particles, the first Normandy wouldn't have been destroyed at the beginning of ME2.
.
If the KB fields didn't block energy weapons, why are they not wide spread?
I think the reapers would win out in the end. They are like old school necrons; they specialize in genocide.
I think the Orks could probably tie up less populous factions like the Alliance and Turians for years in ground warfare through sheer numbers. For that reason I think that the main threats to Orks would be the Krogan (assuming no Genophage) and possibly the Rachni.
Orks vs Krogan would probably end up as a Kryptmann Gambit-like situation - if the Orks won, you'd end up with some of the hardest Ork veterans around. Boyz would be more like Nobz and Warbosses would be colossal with plenty of experience and loyal followers. A big advantage would go to whichever side could replenish their numbers faster. Orks would surely have the edge in some areas, such as having teleportation and being able to use Titan-sized war machines (and now I'm imagining a Gargant vs a Reaper).
CthuluIsSpy wrote:I think the kinetic barriers would be able to block energy weapons, actually.
Energy weapons, despite the name, are not actually pure energy.
Consider Lasers. Lasers work, quite simply by bombarding the target with intense light. This is made possible with photons, or light particles.
Ergo, as lasers use particles to inflict damage, and Kinetic Barriers are designed to block particles, I think they would offer some protection.
However, there is also the fact that light particles can act like a wave...not really sure if that would have an effect however :/
Oh, not this again -_-
If KBs could block particles, the first Normandy wouldn't have been destroyed at the beginning of ME2.
.
If the KB fields didn't block energy weapons, why are they not wide spread?
I think the reapers would win out in the end. They are like old school necrons; they specialize in genocide.
I don't think I understand the first statement. :/
Unit1126PLL wrote:
b. Depending on your fluff source, orks may not even have neurons.
d. Again, the existence of neurons in the Orkoid species is questionable at best.
How's this for a source?
4E Ork Codex, p. 58 Ghazghkull codex entry:
"During a raid on a Space Marine command sanctum, Ghazghkull caught a bolter shell in the face that pulped a large area of his cranium and caused extensive brain damage. A Deathskull Painboy called Mad Dok Grotsnik was close to hand, and replaced part of Ghazghkull's cerebellum with bioniks made from adamantium."
CthuluIsSpy wrote:I think the kinetic barriers would be able to block energy weapons, actually.
Energy weapons, despite the name, are not actually pure energy.
Consider Lasers. Lasers work, quite simply by bombarding the target with intense light. This is made possible with photons, or light particles.
Ergo, as lasers use particles to inflict damage, and Kinetic Barriers are designed to block particles, I think they would offer some protection.
However, there is also the fact that light particles can act like a wave...not really sure if that would have an effect however :/
Oh, not this again -_-
If KBs could block particles, the first Normandy wouldn't have been destroyed at the beginning of ME2.
.
If the KB fields didn't block energy weapons, why are they not wide spread?
I think the reapers would win out in the end. They are like old school necrons; they specialize in genocide.
I don't think I understand the first statement. :/
Ai, its very complicated physics. Its very weird too.
Light is both a particle and a wave. Therefore when light hits something it could be seen as having a kinetic effect.
I think an example of this could be seen with microwaves. Light in the microwave range of radiation can actually cause some atoms to spin which do...something.
As I said, its weird :/
So, after checking out the KB magnetic field issue, I admit I was confusing two different mechanisms in the ME universe. Fortification uses the magnetic fields to stop metallic projectiles, shrapnel, etc. through the use of superconduction. KBs and Fortification can be used in concert, which is why I got confused. Tech armor, which is another application of ME fields actually traps a warp field inbetween two ME fields in order to protect the user.
CthululsSpy, a KB itself wouldn't stop a light energy based weapon, as the nature of light, be it particle or wave, would pass right through the unseen KB field. Now, as I've stated before, you could use an ME field to create a gravitational well to deflect an energy weapon, much like how a black hole or neutron star bends light due to their intense gravitational fields.
TheCustomLime wrote:I think the Orks would be mauled fighting the Reapers, because the Reapers have good technology, troops and numbers. I don't think they would be exterminated by the end of ME3, but a lot of boyz are going to die. But, the Orks could and would hold their own against Systems Alliance Marines, Asari commandos, Turian Hierarchy troops and STG forces. It would be a long and devastating war of attrition, and I'd imagine the Citadel forces would come out on top, but the Orks would just come back again and again for more. Then there would be the problem of Ork infestations on any liberated colonies.
You would be quite correct...if this was about feral Orks armed with bows/arrows, choppas, and pointy stikks. Space-borne Orks, not so much. Ork kroozers are generally (not always, since each ship is kustomized) the size of Imperial cruiser equivalents, which in turn easily dwarf Reapers (which Grand_Zamboa said they were 2km, though I thought they were 4km, but it remains true in either case) in the case of big ones and are at least the same size in the case of smaller or lighter vessels. God help them if one of the kroozers is built up to Imperial Battleship tonnage.
Technology: despite how it looks, Ork teknologee is not nearly as primitive as it looks. In fact, I'd be willing to say that it is nearly as advanced as Imperial tech. Not only that, the Orks don't simply know how to build it, the knowledge required is hardwired into their brains. From the moment they pop out of the ground, an Ork knows everything he needs to start gettin' stukk in wit da WAAAAGH! Ork tek is undeniably less reliable than the tech of any race, 40k or ME, but it is superior in technological level to most examples of ME tech.
Troops: Ork boyz alone can take dozens of lasgun bolts before going down, and pain for them is more exciting than debilitating. Nobz are big enough to take on a squad of Imperial infantry without even getting a scar (which would be quite a disappointment for the Nob in question), and Guardsmen are armed with more powerful weaponry than at least the non-Reaper races, though maybe just as strong as Collectors and other Reaper-affiliated soldiers. And da Warboss...well...he lived long enough to get that big for a good reason, and now he's got the size and strength in addition to whatever let him live that long. Biotics? Meet the Wierdboy.
Numbers: perhaps the Reapers would have an advantage here for a while. They do number in the thousands, after all. But the Orks have one thing going for them - they reproduce at a rate that puts rabbits to shame. Even counting losses, the moment a planet was infected with Ork spores, they'd start erupting from the ground fast enough to make up for losses with more than a little bonus. Numbers wouldn't be against the Orks for very long.
You are right, sir. I did aknowledge the good points of Orks earlier, but I think that because they aren't as well established they would take heavy hits. At first. Eventually, I'd imagine, that there would be an inverse relationship between the military strengths of the Citadel races and the boyz as they became more entrenched. As in, getting some worlds to reproduce on, getting more bitz to make stuff etc.
Anyway, I think orks will actually end up winning.
Scenario 1 : They stomp Mass Effect. They win
Scenario 2: They get stomped by Mass Effect. But since it was one hell of a fight, they still win. An Ork loves nothing more than a good fight, even if its a losing one. Just look at Tuska.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Just what are KB's exactly? I am a bit uncertain of their nature.
A shield that protect against projectiles, but not against energy weapons.
Yeah, I need a bit more than that. How does it protect against only projectiles? Why does it have no effect on "energy" weapons?
From Mass Effect Wikipedia:
Kinetic barriers:
Spoiler:
"Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation."
Mass accelerator weapons:
Spoiler:
"A mass accelerator propels a solid metal slug using precisely-controlled electromagnetic attraction and repulsion. The slug is designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy it transfers to the target. If this were not the case, it would simply punch a hole right through, doing minimal damage.
Accelerator design was revolutionized by element zero. A slug lightened by a mass effect field can be accelerated to greater speeds, permitting projectile velocities that were previously unattainable. If accelerated to a high enough velocity, a simple paint chip can impact with the same destructive force as a nuclear weapon. However, mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy. This is mitigated somewhat by the mass effect fields that rounds are suspended within, but weapon recoil is still the prime "
A note before all you start wambling "it's from Wikipedia so it is not true": this text is directly copied from Codex witch can be read in the game itself. So it is as canonical as any 40k codex.
Hunterindarkness wrote:To me the main deciding factor has not been covered. How big is the WAAAAGH!? Are we talking about a single Rok and a few ships? Or a dozen roks? or are we talking about a a major unseen event like the mobilization of most if not all orks in a Segmentum, well then the reapers and everyone else are well and truly screwed.
The IoM acknowledges a rampaging band of orks as a full-scale Waagh! once they hit about 2.5 billion orks united under a single warlord, because at that point they pose a serious threat to even most heavily fortified worlds and can no longer be stopped without a massive deployment of imperial guard, navy and space marines (Source: IA:8). Thrakkas initial attack on Armageddon was 50 billion orks (though might vary depending on source)
Just for comparrison, Garrus mentions 9 billion turians living on Palavan, Thessia is said to be home to 15 billion Asari. I guess about 25% of those are able to fight in a war. This does not include any colonies, the fleets or the citadel itself, so the orks would have some catching up to do once they arrive.
However, the Reapers took more than 100 years to wipe out the protheans, and they even needed a weeks (if not months) to just destroy all major cities on Earth. Javic (the Prothean) even says that the reapers won all the cylce-ending wars by attrition, due to them causing heavy casualties and taking close to none(their entire ground forces are expendable). If they were fighting orks, after one year, any spores spread by the first casualties would have matured into full grown ork boyz, resulting in a constant flow of reinforcements. The Reaper's slow and thorough approach will most likely cost them the war, as the orks could probably continue the fight for aeons. And unlike tyranids, chaos or the IoM dropping an exterminatus, the Reapers don't leave planets uninhabitable and void of resources, so a once defeated and cleaned world could easily rise to a new ork stronghold within a decade or so.
I also agree on the take on ork tech vs reaper tech. Gargants should at least come up to size of most reapers, and even stompas, battlefortresses or kill tanks can easily take on any ground troops they have (Makos and Hammers are more like rhinos in comparrison) and probably pack enough firepower to damage even big reapers.
This gets me thinking, what if Commander Shepard was an Ork freebooter?
Ashley: Commander we've been through a lot and I want to ask you something.
Warboss Shepork: Wot iz it?
Ashley: Are we... going somewhere?
Warboss Shepork: WOT DA ZOG AR YOU'Z TALKIN' 'BOUT? OF CORSE WE'Z GOIN' SUMWHER'Z! WE'Z GOIN' TO DEM REAPA BOYZ YOU STUPID GIT! Zog me. I'z ot to feed you'z to me squig.
Jidmah wrote:
I also agree on the take on ork tech vs reaper tech. Gargants schould at least come up to size of most reapers, and even stompas, battlefortresses or kill tanks can easily take on any ground troops they have (Makos and Hammers are more like rhinos in comparrison) and probably pack enough firepower to damage even big reapers.
Gargants are in size similar to Imperial Titans, the biggest Imperial Titan is 55m high.
Reapers are anywhere from 160 meters ( Destroyer ) to 2 kilometers ( Reapers like Sovereign and Harbinger ).
So in sheer size, Titans to Reapers are like Sentinels to Titan.
A gargant can be ten times the size of a stompa (and more), which would easily bring it to the size of a destroyer. Harbinger is also described to be twice the size of a regular reaper, so 1km is probably is more common for the squid-like ones.
You also have to remember...how many Gargants/Stompas would there be on a battlefield? You're talking about maybe a couple of them versus dozens of Reapers...more if they start losing and decide to bring their forces to bear.
Additionally, as I had mentioned before, the Reapers could potentially turn Orks into foot soldiers much in the same way that they turn humans into Husks and Turians into Marauders. That could make some frightening troops for the Reapers, not to mention that they could grow their forces nearly exponentially after each battle, much in the same way the Orks do.
The big thing is, I think that the Reapers would beat the Orks in space, before they could make planetfall. An Ork fleet versus over 10k Reapers would be a massive victory for the Reapers, I feel.
All in the size, An Ork could easily outnumber the 10k reapers if large enough. Ya have to recall even a small Waagh is massive. If it is 2.5 billion Orks we are talking major fleet action here. A single Kroozer is 4.5 km long, with shields and burissling with weapons. It is also massively armored and never alone. If it is 2.5 billion then we are talking a couple thousand Ships here in a small Waagh.
The reapers may win, but they could be really badly hurt vs an Ork fleet of that size.
Hunterindarkness wrote:Stand back and watch? Get other people to help the orks? Assuming the Orks didn't attack em for getting in the way of the good fight
Suppose so. Probably would die on first contact with a full Ork mob, though.
Hunterindarkness wrote:All in the size, An Ork could easily outnumber the 10k reapers if large enough. Ya have to recall even a small Waagh is massive. If it is 2.5 billion Orks we are talking major fleet action here. A single Kroozer is 4.5 km long, with shields and burissling with weapons. It is also massively armored and never alone. If it is 2.5 billion then we are talking a couple thousand Ships here in a small Waagh.
The reapers may win, but they could be really badly hurt vs an Ork fleet of that size.
10k Reapers isn't anywhere near all of their forces. And, I'm not saying that the Reapers wouldn't take casualties, just that they'd win in the end.
You know, though...the biggest problem would be that the Reapers aren't in it to fight...
End of ME2/ME3 spoiler alert:
Spoiler:
The Reapers are harvesting organic life to advance it into the Reaper form to prevent synthetic life from exterminating organic life. Over time, the Reapers would harvest the Orks, and create Ork Reapers, much like they did with the human Reaper in ME2. And, for the Orks they couldn't either convert to a Reaper or a Husk-form Ork...they'd wipe out. I think it would take hundreds and hundreds of years, but eventually the Reapers would come out victorious. This is, of course, assuming they face only one WAAGH.
Hunterindarkness wrote:All in the size, An Ork could easily outnumber the 10k reapers if large enough. Ya have to recall even a small Waagh is massive. If it is 2.5 billion Orks we are talking major fleet action here. A single Kroozer is 4.5 km long, with shields and burissling with weapons. It is also massively armored and never alone. If it is 2.5 billion then we are talking a couple thousand Ships here in a small Waagh.
The reapers may win, but they could be really badly hurt vs an Ork fleet of that size.
10k Reapers isn't anywhere near all of their forces. And, I'm not saying that the Reapers wouldn't take casualties, just that they'd win in the end.
You know, though...the biggest problem would be that the Reapers aren't in it to fight...
End of ME2/ME3 spoiler alert:
Spoiler:
The Reapers are harvesting organic life to advance it into the Reaper form to prevent synthetic life from exterminating organic life. Over time, the Reapers would harvest the Orks, and create Ork Reapers, much like they did with the human Reaper in ME2. And, for the Orks they couldn't either convert to a Reaper or a Husk-form Ork...they'd wipe out. I think it would take hundreds and hundreds of years, but eventually the Reapers would come out victorious. This is, of course, assuming they face only one WAAGH.
But what if... the Ork reapers turned on the others and started becoming more like Orks? Ork behavior is hard wired into their genes and mostly unlearned.
The reapers would get one converted ork out of every killed ork, but at the same time the orks would gain hundreds of spores from that one ork dieing spawning squigs, snotlings, gretchin and orks again.
I don't think the reapers can win that war by attrition. Even the tyranids struggle, and they are much better at that game than the reapers are.
I'm not gonna get into the discussion on Gargant sizes since I don't believe there is a set size. I remember reading in one of the black library books, I think it was Helsreach, where the made a Titan bigger than an Imperator by using parts from their ships or something.
Anyways, If orks existed in the Mass Effect universe there are things that I think that would have to take into consideration. If Orks were to be prominent they would have to been there for a long time, meaning that the Rachni would either cease to exist or kept in check because of the Orks, the krogans would have never rebelled as they would have been kept occupied by the Orks. Everyone else would be in constant war with the Orks, I can think of a few races that would be wiped out.
Imagine the Orks would be in such great numbers that the reapers wont even be able to match them, even if the Orks war with eachother the reapers wont be able to match a horde similar to Ghazghkull Thraka or Snagrod.
Brother Coa wrote:There you have it, Mega Gargant is even smaller then Emperor Titan in size.
That is still 55 meters against smallest Reaper of 160 meters.
Good thing that being bigger is rarely a good thing even in the modern era, not to mention lightspeed anti-armor weapons.
spectreoneone wrote:You also have to remember...how many Gargants/Stompas would there be on a battlefield? You're talking about maybe a couple of them versus dozens of Reapers...more if they start losing and decide to bring their forces to bear.
Additionally, as I had mentioned before, the Reapers could potentially turn Orks into foot soldiers much in the same way that they turn humans into Husks and Turians into Marauders. That could make some frightening troops for the Reapers, not to mention that they could grow their forces nearly exponentially after each battle, much in the same way the Orks do.
The big thing is, I think that the Reapers would beat the Orks in space, before they could make planetfall. An Ork fleet versus over 10k Reapers would be a massive victory for the Reapers, I feel.
Has anyone taken into account that Orks can adapt? Sure, they may start out with tons of trukks, wagons, and tanks, with only a few gargants and stompas, but they aren't so stupid that they wouldn't notice that they're going up against giant 1-to-4km sized mechanical squids. Once that realization comes, they would start building less tanks and more gargants/stompas (probably scrapping the smaller vehicles at first in order to build the first ones) so that they could at least come somewhat close to the sheer size and dakka-ness of the Reapers. Once the Reapers start taking lossess - regardless of whether they would win or lose, they would indeed take losses - then the Orks would undoubtedly build some new gargants and kroozas that have some, though probably not all, of the dead Reapers' parts added into them. I wouldn't be surprised to see some gargants with "melty-dakka deffguns" (the molten metal guns) and "snazzy, growy, an' dedd 'ard armor" (the semi-organic Reaper armor) after the first few battles, and probably some similarly armed/armored kroozas/roks.
Now of course, not all the Ork guns would be scrapped in favor of Gargants, but the ones not scrapped would certainly get some upgrades. The meks would go crazy with all the possibilities for 'uge squiddy killas: gatling beamy deffguns, battlewagon-mountable snazzguns, mega dakka deffguns, supa deff dredds, etc.
TheCustomLime wrote:
But what if... the Ork reapers turned on the others and started becoming more like Orks? Ork behavior is hard wired into their genes and mostly unlearned.
Great Scott, he's on to something here!
If that proved to be the case, the Reapers' attempt at victory would end up being their doom. I mean, if these really turned out to be Orky Reapers, then wouldn't they become the Warboss and Nobz by default? No other Ork could possibly grow to kilometers in size, after all.
If that proved to be the case, the Reapers' attempt at victory would end up being their doom. I mean, if these really turned out to be Orky Reapers, then wouldn't they become the Warboss and Nobz by default? No other Ork could possibly grow to kilometers in size, after all.
Except the ones that do
IIRC It says in the ork codex that entire galaxies are dedicated to the green tide and some orks grow as big as gargants.
Question. Over this long period of war that would take. Wouldn't that mean more and more reapers would be made? Because the reapers do not possess the same qualities as the race they were once from. The inside part of the reapers look like them sure but they would not be like them in anyway possible. This would mean that from the billions of orks slain, 2 reapers are made. They take their bodies and process them. And seeing how they could just blast through the ork ships like tissue paper.
The thing is we are talking about two races. That don't quit. Orks like the fightin. And the reapers have patience. The Reapers use strategies of other races against them. So that means that fighting just one race is simple. Thats how they defeated the protheans.
But then....
Orks with looted reapers....
Though to be honest a looted normandy sounds funny.
King Crow wrote:I think it could be close with how quickly krogans can breed. It's not like orks can fight unified either. I say ME wins
But Orks CAN fight unified.
Every ork in the universe can fight together? Nope.
But you do not need all of them. Just half of a Segmetums's Orks would totally swamp the ME setting,I mean even a single Waaarg of 2.5 billion Orks are not even the majority of orks in a given section. and every dead ork, you could be facing 10 the next year. The ME people would not know that the first go around, if they could defeat all the orks, they would be facing a greater number within a year and there is no way the reapers can recover numbers that fast. And when they are in a large Waaargh you best belive they fight as one unit. They may fall apart afterword, but they fight together if a big powerful foe shows up that makes a good fight.
Asherian Command wrote:Question. Over this long period of war that would take. Wouldn't that mean more and more reapers would be made? Because the reapers do not possess the same qualities as the race they were once from. The inside part of the reapers look like them sure but they would not be like them in anyway possible. This would mean that from the billions of orks slain, 2 reapers are made. They take their bodies and process them. And seeing how they could just blast through the ork ships like tissue paper.
This would be right. For any other race. But we are talking about Orks. They don't learn to act like Orks, they just do. I think Reapers don't act like their source material because they aren't taught to. A human based reaper wouldn't act like a human because it would only know to act like a Reaper. But, a Ork/Reaper Hybrid would be different. A Ork isn't a war craving lunatic because he was taught to be. There is no Big Mek school. They do these things because their genes tell them to, and because a Ork reaper possesses the genes it would start acting Orky. It may not start out as a Reaper blowing the others up, joining the WAAAAAGGHH!! and getting "fixed good an' proppa" by the Big Meks, but it certainly wouldn't be calm and patient like it's bretheren.
A looted "Knormandee" lead by a Orkified krew would make for a hilarious web comic, as was mentioned earlier.
King Crow wrote:I think it could be close with how quickly krogans can breed. It's not like orks can fight unified either. I say ME wins
But Orks CAN fight unified.
Every ork in the universe can fight together? Nope.
But you do not need all of them. Just half of a Segmetums's Orks would totally swamp the ME setting,I mean even a single Waaarg of 2.5 billion Orks are not even the majority of orks in a given section. and every dead ork, you could be facing 10 the next year. The ME people would not know that the first go around, if they could defeat all the orks, they would be facing a greater number within a year and there is no way the reapers can recover numbers that fast. And when they are in a large Waaargh you best belive they fight as one unit. They may fall apart afterword, but they fight together if a big powerful foe shows up that makes a good fight.
Though even if Thrakka himself would lead his entire Waaagh! into the Mass Effect galaxy, which is probably the largest in history, he would be in for a hell of a beating. If you'd think that instead of the reapers, the orks appeared at the beginning of ME3, I would have my money on the ME races. There have great numbers, and the turnian fleet is pretty damn impressive, even compared to the huge ork fleeds of kruizers, space hulks and rokks, and that's only the second strongest in the galaxy. Assuming the Galaxy would unit against the orks as they do against the reapers, I wouldn't rule out a final defeat for them. They are just much more resourceful and creative than the 40k races and I doubt they won't come up with a solution to the spore problem. Outside of the Tau, there are close to no real Scientists in the 40k Universe, while ME seems to have just as many scientists as soldiers(hyperbole, of course).
Minor ME3 Spoiler
Spoiler:
Even without a permanent solution against the Orks, I doubt they could strike at the heart of every civilization as the reapers have done, thus they would face the full military might of the Turians, Asari, Salarians, Humanity, Quarians, Geth and Krogan. Even for orks, that's a bigger bite than they can chew. And that's not even counting the "minor" fleets of the terminus systems, elcor and volus or the rachni.
Cerberus might go bonkas if they try to copy ork tech though. Meks would kill each other over lootable Atlasses.
Bottom line, I think the orks would win against the reapers, as their strategy simply doesn't work against orks (wipe out military, then break any resistance through attrition, terror and indoctrination).
However, I think the regular races would be able to defeat a Waagh!, even permanently.
I find it odd that everyone is saying that the Orks' relatively small number of ships is a disadvantage. Consider that their Kroozers are generally six to seven kilometers long (larger if kustomized enough) and equipped with technology that while Ork-built and thus unreliable is still as advanced or possibly slightly more advanced than Reaper tech. Not only that, their shields/force fields can block all types of weapons, not just kinetic guns.
Compared to that, the largest Reapers would be considered heavy frigates at the absolute most. The Orks probably wouldn't even bother with looting just one, but would probably get two or three dead Reapers and smash them together in order to make it big enough.
masterofThardus wrote:I find it odd that everyone is saying that the Orks' relatively small number of ships is a disadvantage. Consider that their Kroozers are generally six to seven kilometers long (larger if kustomized enough) and equipped with technology that while Ork-built and thus unreliable is still as advanced or possibly slightly more advanced than Reaper tech. Not only that, their shields/force fields can block all types of weapons, not just kinetic guns.
Compared to that, the largest Reapers would be considered heavy frigates at the absolute most. The Orks probably wouldn't even bother with looting just one, but would probably get two or three dead Reapers and smash them together in order to make it big enough.
Uhm.....nobody but orks can use ork technology. Reverse engineering isn't an option for Ceberus or the reapers. Personally I think ork physiology is more impressive than any of the races in Mass Effect. As said before, they feel little pain and can shrug off lasgun wounds (more powerful than a standard rifle) and can regrow limbs.
I don't understand why the size of a ship matters.
It doesn't matter how large a ship is if its armor is paper thin. Increasing the size increases the amount of material, increasing the amount of weight, increasing the amount of inertia. So unless you're planning on ramming your way thru the Reaper fleet, I'm not sure how giant ships are going to help you aside from making your ship bulky, hard to accelerate, virtually impossible to stop, virtually unmaneuverable, and very difficult to adequately armor without increasing any of the above liabilities to the point of exhaustion.
One breach in the hull would be sufficient to suck out all the oxygen into the vaccuum of space, killing all the occupants if there wasn't a robust network of airlocks at frequent junctures.
Except Ork ships have some of the thicker, tougher armor. Also one hull breach will not kill a 40k ship, you have to pound them to scrap metal.Even more so with an ork Kroozer, much less a Roc. If it is one on one, I would bet on the Kroozer. Now if it was a smaller ship, it would be different but a Kroozer would run though a reaper ( Often literally as they like to ram). It simply out sizes, out armor and out Gunz them on every level.
TedNugent wrote:I don't understand why the size of a ship matters.
It doesn't matter how large a ship is if its armor is paper thin. Increasing the size increases the amount of material, increasing the amount of weight, increasing the amount of inertia. So unless you're planning on ramming your way thru the Reaper fleet, I'm not sure how giant ships are going to help you aside from making your ship bulky, hard to accelerate, virtually impossible to stop, virtually unmaneuverable, and very difficult to adequately armor without increasing any of the above liabilities to the point of exhaustion.
One breach in the hull would be sufficient to suck out all the oxygen into the vaccuum of space, killing all the occupants if there wasn't a robust network of airlocks at frequent junctures.
Here's the thing, though. Ork Ships are notoriously hard to destroy. Even for Imperium ships. And Imperium ships are crazy advanced compared to ME tech. And, they are brimming from guts to gills with more dakka than you can shake a Avenger at. Compared to a Ork ship, Reapers have less dakka per ton. One might argue that their low BS would hamper it, but such things don't matter when there are thousands upon thousands of guns. Something is bound to hit something. Also, for Orks the laws of physics don't really apply. There are so many Orks in a kroozer that if they believe that the ship should go faster, then damn it, it will go faster. Especially with a red paint job.
TedNugent wrote:I don't understand why the size of a ship matters.
It doesn't matter how large a ship is if its armor is paper thin. Increasing the size increases the amount of material, increasing the amount of weight, increasing the amount of inertia. So unless you're planning on ramming your way thru the Reaper fleet, I'm not sure how giant ships are going to help you aside from making your ship bulky, hard to accelerate, virtually impossible to stop, virtually unmaneuverable, and very difficult to adequately armor without increasing any of the above liabilities to the point of exhaustion.
One breach in the hull would be sufficient to suck out all the oxygen into the vaccuum of space, killing all the occupants if there wasn't a robust network of airlocks at frequent junctures.
Here's the thing, though. Ork Ships are notoriously hard to destroy. Even for Imperium ships. And Imperium ships are crazy advanced compared to ME tech. And, they are brimming from guts to gills with more dakka than you can shake a Avenger at. Compared to a Ork ship, Reapers have less dakka per ton. One might argue that their low BS would hamper it, but such things don't matter when there are thousands upon thousands of guns. Something is bound to hit something. Also, for Orks the laws of physics don't really apply. There are so many Orks in a kroozer that if they believe that the ship should go faster, then damn it, it will go faster. Especially with a red paint job.
Damn straight.
...Good God, if they manage to get enough paint to make the entirety of a Kroozer red, it would move at frickin' light speed!
TedNugent wrote:I don't understand why the size of a ship matters.
It doesn't matter how large a ship is if its armor is paper thin. Increasing the size increases the amount of material, increasing the amount of weight, increasing the amount of inertia. So unless you're planning on ramming your way thru the Reaper fleet, I'm not sure how giant ships are going to help you aside from making your ship bulky, hard to accelerate, virtually impossible to stop, virtually unmaneuverable, and very difficult to adequately armor without increasing any of the above liabilities to the point of exhaustion.
One breach in the hull would be sufficient to suck out all the oxygen into the vaccuum of space, killing all the occupants if there wasn't a robust network of airlocks at frequent junctures.
Here's the thing, though. Ork Ships are notoriously hard to destroy. Even for Imperium ships. And Imperium ships are crazy advanced compared to ME tech. And, they are brimming from guts to gills with more dakka than you can shake a Avenger at. Compared to a Ork ship, Reapers have less dakka per ton. One might argue that their low BS would hamper it, but such things don't matter when there are thousands upon thousands of guns. Something is bound to hit something. Also, for Orks the laws of physics don't really apply. There are so many Orks in a kroozer that if they believe that the ship should go faster, then damn it, it will go faster. Especially with a red paint job.
Damn straight.
...Good God, if they manage to get enough paint to make the entirety of a Kroozer red, it would move at frickin' light speed!
FTL travel already exists. It's called the Warp.
And if the Orks ever hit the Earth from ME3, you might as well just give up. It's impossible to totally clean a world of Orks once they're their, and a Waaagh! attracts more Waaagh!s to it.
Imagine the Reapers attacking Earth. Then multiply that fleet by a few thousand and you have what will be an Ork Waaagh! on the scale of Homeworld destruction.