http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L2yt7IS0OY&feature=em-uploademail

nothing too earth shattering, but does seem to confirm the book for GD : Uk.

.. which is nice.

This is good and bad news.

Good that rules may be on the way.

Bad that it'll tempt me to a Heresy specific army.

So at the very end of that trailer... what are two images reflected in the eyes of that space marine?

yeah,
I can't wait.
I've started reading the books and just finished reading Fulgrim. The Black Library retelling is amazing, I soooo want to do something hersey era, the timing of FW could not have been better for me
The whole thing is such a sad tale..

Panic...

At least from that trailer it sure looks like Forge World is going to take all the stuff they designed and published as Badab War era models and now call them Heresy Era models. Which frankly I'm okay with since we all thought it looked like they were doing Heresy Era stuff anyway and just calling it Badab War era.

But if they do continue down this route it may indeed indicate that they're not doing some of the crazier OTT designs from the Visions of Heresy Books like those nutso awesome Heresy Terminator armor designs and sticking more to the stuff we've already seen for the Badab Era models.

If that's the case, then I'm sure a lot of people will be bummed out, although then again this is just a teaser so maybe they're hiding all the really wacky new (old) style designs for the full release.

Regardless, I'm certainly excited to pick the book up and read it. Its about damn time they got to the Heresy and they better make some awesome damn Primarch models (regardless of whether they're useable in the game or not). Its downright criminal that they've been putting out the awesome Heresy novels for so long now and they don't have Heresy and Primarch models to people to collect and paint!

Looks like Istvaan 3.

Leave it to FW to make everything superior to regular GW, including teasers.

Sounds exciting.

I'll have to organize that DCM FW Order sooner.

 aka_mythos wrote:
So at the very end of that trailer... what are two images reflected in the eyes of that space marine?

Not sure exactly (besides it being a marine of some sort). Here's a screen cap of it:

I wonder if the flashing images toward the end indicate which legions will be covered in this book, or if they are just coincidental? Looks like Emperor's Children, Sons of Horus and World Eaters. There is also a Death Guard tank, but it doesn't seem to be part of the same sequence.

The most important thing is... I don't see any Thousand Sons. Of course, I don't expect them to show up until the last book, anyway.

Games Day UK
Sunday 23rd September will see thousands of you descend on the NEC in Birmingham for Games Day UK. Games Day is first and foremost a celebration of the Games Workshop hobby and a chance to meet, and chat to, the famous faces of the Design Studio, Black Library and Forge World. Licensed partners such as Fantasy Flight Games and THQ also join us at Games Day to showcase their fantastic games and products.

Each year’s show also features a multitude of amazing participation games that you can dive into and take part in, from quick skirmishes to vast battles, as well as a massive sales area. It’s here that Games Day attendees will be able to get hold of pre-release copies of The Horus Heresy Book I: Betrayal for the very first time.

OK, so FW knows how to tease...


Seems good for the visitors of the real GD, so have fun fellow dakkanauts.

Until the price is as epic as the events in the heresy that it covers, I'll be interested. Maybe x-mas....

I just nearly punched my monitor with excitement, must...have...EVERYTHING!!!!!

The model in the Space Marines visor at the end, I'm 100% confident that it's Ferrus Manus.

Ferrus manus or Angron. The shoulder pads remind me of Angron more.

I'd like to see some guys designed like the ones flanking the Emperor. Not sure if they are Marines, some kind of Custodes or something else entirely.

It looks like we'll be getting similar helmets if that Emperors Children Marine is anything to go by.

Is it wrong to be more excited about possible new FW stuff when GW is just about to release the new starter set? Hopefully we will see some more models and not just the book, one can always hope!

My vote on that image is "Angron" as well...

And FW would be foolish indeed to NOT do Primarch models.


FW isn't foolish - so Primarch models should be in!

 Alpharius wrote:
My vote on that image is "Angron" as well...

And FW would be foolish indeed to NOT do Primarch models.


FW isn't foolish - so Primarch models should be in!

I hope so. my bank manager will hope not.

^^ Its Angron (note the head tattoos, The Butcher's Nails seem to be the version they're going for). I think its already been confirmed that they're doing the Primarchs (something like the quote being they'd have to do them if they were to handle the period).

Is that Legion specific armour sets I'm seeing? 0.o

 Alpharius wrote:
My vote on that image is "Angron" as well...

And FW would be foolish indeed to NOT do Primarch models.


FW isn't foolish - so Primarch models should be in!

I'm sure they will do primarch models, FW will sell a metric ton of them even at a $89 each price point

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
My vote on that image is "Angron" as well...

And FW would be foolish indeed to NOT do Primarch models.


FW isn't foolish - so Primarch models should be in!

I'm sure they will do primarch models, FW will sell a metric ton of them even at a $89 each price point

If you think an $89 price point is what they will set, then brace for $150.
It is a GW company after all....

I love that Primarchs will finally be done by GW ... and given the quality of finecast its better that they are produced by FW. But the downside is that I want them all ... not just Fulgrim, or Angron, or Ferrus Manus ... I want all 20 of them ... NOW

 aka_mythos wrote:
So at the very end of that trailer... what are two images reflected in the eyes of that space marine?

It's a helmetless, bald marine, in black armour with white shoulder pads reminiscent of the (I think) tartaros pattern armour. He's not looking directly at the cover marine, but out to the right side of the picture. From here detail gets a bit grainy though it looks as though he has some kind of(wolf tail?) talisman atop his armour, and in the right lens I'm not sure if I can make out a scythe, which makes me think Mortarion... I'm not seing a clear image of a PA style backpack, so I'm thinking whoever it is in Terminator armour.

You can see this too for the low low price of just £99.95 (extra costs may occur), and I'll send you a jpeg of the image. Alternatively you can hold down the CTRL button on your keyboard and zoom in on your mouse wheel, focusing on the lenses, for free, but that doesn't make sense. Give me money people, come on, Games Days round the corner and daddy needs a shiny new Titan

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
My vote on that image is "Angron" as well...

And FW would be foolish indeed to NOT do Primarch models.


FW isn't foolish - so Primarch models should be in!

I'm sure they will do primarch models, FW will sell a metric ton of them even at a $89 each price point

If you think an $89 price point is what they will set, then brace for $150.
It is a GW company after all....

It wouldnt shock me at all, my idea on $89 is based on the FW avatar. I dont expect the primarch models to be the same size as the avatar but if they can charge 90 bucks for a giant avatar then 90 bucks for a bigger space marine doesnt seem impossible. Plus after standing in line for fw at gencon and seeing the stupid amounts of money people handed over for models I would have guessed never sold...FW could prolly charge 200 for the primarchs and it wouldnt matter

 yakface wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
So at the very end of that trailer... what are two images reflected in the eyes of that space marine?

Not sure exactly (besides it being a marine of some sort). Here's a screen cap of it:

God damn it...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you zoom in on the pic that Yakface put up you can actually make out that what I thought was a wolf tail talisman is actually an Ultramarines omega sign (left click the pic, ctrl and mouse wheel you way on in).

There's also subtle differences between the 2 pictures -

- the one in the right lense is higher
- the one in the left lense seems to be looking a little more toward the viewer
- the one in the right lense looks to have another barely-there image plastered over the left hand side of the lens, this is what I took to be a scythe when I first saw it. Looking at it now it looks kinda like a back pack, though that doesn't make sense...

Within a 3 month span:

1. GenCon
2. 40k Starter Set
3. Chaos Book + stuffs
4. FW Horus Heresy books + (presumably) stuffs.

Man, I'm glad I have a good job....

Sorry to keep banging on about this, had another look at the right eye lens and I'm seeing Roman Numerals. First glace I saw XV, making me think Thousand sounds, then saw another X between them, making 25. Does that mean owt to anyone or am I talking bs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems to be a second omega sign on his cuirrass, under (his) right shoulder pad

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
My vote on that image is "Angron" as well...

And FW would be foolish indeed to NOT do Primarch models.


FW isn't foolish - so Primarch models should be in!

I'm sure they will do primarch models, FW will sell a metric ton of them even at a $89 each price point

If you think an $89 price point is what they will set, then brace for $150.
It is a GW company after all....

It wouldnt shock me at all, my idea on $89 is based on the FW avatar. I dont expect the primarch models to be the same size as the avatar but if they can charge 90 bucks for a giant avatar then 90 bucks for a bigger space marine doesnt seem impossible. Plus after standing in line for fw at gencon and seeing the stupid amounts of money people handed over for models I would have guessed never sold...FW could prolly charge 200 for the primarchs and it wouldnt matter

Sound enough reasoning there - that seems like a 'fair' enough price point without getting ridiculous in terms of a price so high that you will lose sales/struggle to justify it.

A FW Dread might be a more realistic price point, really.

We'll see soon enough though!

I see aquilas and drop pods.

Oh boy. That looks awesome. But hopefully they will have new lore 0.0

So exciting! The definition of a day 1 purchase.

This is actually a book from FW that I could buy. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy have finally been recognised for the cash cows they are.

I have had no interest in FW material until now. To me 40k has always been Imperium vs. Chaos... the rest are just xeno scum waiting to be put to the sword.

With my interest in tournaments basically gone with the new edition we are focusing on campaign and narrative games instead... this is just what we will need.

 ashrog wrote:
I wonder if the flashing images toward the end indicate which legions will be covered in this book, or if they are just coincidental? Looks like Emperor's Children, Sons of Horus and World Eaters. There is also a Death Guard tank, but it doesn't seem to be part of the same sequence.

The most important thing is... I don't see any Thousand Sons. Of course, I don't expect them to show up until the last book, anyway.

If they do Isstvan III first it would make sense to only have Emperor's Children, Sons of Horus, Death Guard, and World Eaters. It will be interesting to see what they end up coming out with though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fireball wrote:
I love that Primarchs will finally be done by GW ... and given the quality of finecast its better that they are produced by FW. But the downside is that I want them all ... not just Fulgrim, or Angron, or Ferrus Manus ... I want all 20 of them ... NOW

Technically there are 21 primarchs but I digress.......

brettz123 wrote:

 Fireball wrote:
I love that Primarchs will finally be done by GW ... and given the quality of finecast its better that they are produced by FW. But the downside is that I want them all ... not just Fulgrim, or Angron, or Ferrus Manus ... I want all 20 of them ... NOW

Technically there are 21 primarchs but I digress.......

Sure, but the two "Lost Legions" won't be done, so we'll only get 19 (baring duplicates).

I suspect multiple Primarch models will be released at different times as the series (which will get quite popular) grows.

For instance, "War Hounds" Angron, Heresy Angron, Daemon Prince Angron, and so on.

Sounds reasonable, Harriticus.

Also, more sculpts = more money!

The only bummer rumor I heard was that they were not going to do pre-Heresy rules. Probably not a huge issue for most legions, but for the Thousand Sons that would be a less than optimal decision. I'd really like to have pre-Heresy rules that allow for squads based on the Prospero cults. Plus there is only a very narrow time period where the Sons have turned traitor, but haven't invoked the Rubric (and we already have Rubric rules).

Not having the Burning of Prospero as a book would just be loco though.

I find it interesting that they put an announcement about Fear to Tread form BL in their email today. This suggests to me that the first book may well cover events in the Horus Heresy books until now. I'd certainly expect to see Istvann, Calth and Signus possibly even Prospero. The timing relating to Fear to Tread is also significant because it sets up the sides for the ensuing conflict. We know which legions are loyal and which have turned. Given that the Heresy could be divided into three as:

Betrayal The initial attacks and divisions of forces

The Race to Terra Preparing the defences and forces trying to interfere with both sides reaching Terra

The Siege of the Imperial Palace The final conflict

You then have the basis of three Forgeworld books. While they might seem to cover a lot of conflicts "regular" forgeworld books tell the story of the conflict and provide army lists. The telling of the story isn't as necessary given the BL series of books, so the FW books then only need to give army lists and special characters. While I would love to see primarchs, I wouldn't be surprised if Forgeworld avoided them. It seems a strange kind of tragedy that if FW did do Primarchs then we probably wouldn't have them sculpted by Jes Goodwin et al. (even if I do still have the old Leman Russ and his wolves). Of course you then have the issue of the immanent Chaos Space marines likely having Abaddon in it and how could he really be left out of the first Horus Heresy FW book. Sure there would be different Armour but the stats comparison might be interesting. I'm really looking forward to this and hope to get my hands on it at Games Day. I wonder if this coudl have an impact on ticket sales given that there are often naysayers about the GD events, even in the UK.

Cannot wait, i need me some primarchs. Hopefully they will be dread sized and not just slightly bigger than a terminator.

Slightly bigger than a terminator would make more sense and look better than Dreadnought sized though!

Daemon Prince Primarchs are enormous, Angron is described in Emperor's Gift as towering over Bloodthirsters and Dreadnoughts. His sword alone is longer then multiple Grey Knights Terminators.

Before that though I imagine slightly larger then Terminators.

yeah cant see them charging $89 for a termi sized mini im going for the $45ish mark

CAN"T WAIT FOR THIS!!

Going to be so awesome!

My curiosity got the better of me, so out came photoshop. Just though I'd post this in case anyone was interested...

Going mad? Maybe. Seeing things that aren't there? Not really, they're quite clearly there if ya ask me!

I'm going to go with the 'Going mad?' option here!

all looks like simulacra to me ..i think your seeing things you want to see...the inq symbol is just random white noise.same with the rune {also why would they randomly be there ? as for the you i dont see it as that rather as a iron halo esq trophy that is lit from above hence the bottom part being lit up.

he looks like almost every recent pic of angron we have seen and the "blue marine" would be a world eater wouldnt he ?

Alpharius wrote:I'm going to go with the 'Going mad?' option here!

Lol, I can't make myself disagree with you Got a little excited, though I'd stumbled on a couple of easter eggs!

CURNOW wrote:all looks like simulacra to me ..i think your seeing things you want to see...the inq symbol is just random white noise.same with the rune {also why would they randomly be there ? as for the you i dont see it as that rather as a iron halo esq trophy that is lit from above hence the bottom part being lit up.

he looks like almost every recent pic of angron we have seen and the "blue marine" would be a world eater wouldnt he ?

I thought the same about the , though it was there so I thought I'd point it out. Were World Eaters blue? I thought they were creamy white...? No matter either way I suppose

But juuuuuuuust iiiinccaaaaaaaaase you guys wana see what I was looking at.... they're faint, but, well, yeah.

It's Angron.

 bhsman wrote:
It's Angron.

Yeah, confirmed by Harry that it's Angron.

Must not start Heresy era army must not start Heresy era army lol,

Although Heresy era thousand Sons might go well with my current Space Wolves as Chaos tend to use older armour anyway. It's just a shame Space Wolves have such a different paint scheme as my guys all have heresy era bolters.

See... That's how you do a teaser that interests people. New piece of artwork, things to analyse and debate through teases.

Forgeworld, jobs a good 'un!

Holy crap there are some pretty models in there. I liked the drum mag sponson bolters on the plasma predator. So much awesome though, I just wish I could multiply my hobby budget (and time allowance) by 10, as it's unlikely that I'll be able to buy all the pretty shiny things I want... Maybe worth a trip to Games Day though.

 Fireball wrote:
I love that Primarchs will finally be done by GW ...

I love how everyone says this with absolute certainty even though the people at Forge World have not said they are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
Sure, but the two "Lost Legions" won't be done, so we'll only get 19 (baring duplicates).

It will be interesting to see if they make two models for Alpharius and his siamese twin or only one for him.

Well, Harry said that four Primarchs are being done--that's about as good as confirmation you can get without it being advertised on the FW site.

He also said that was a reflection of the model--not the art, which is interesting.

Ever so slightly OT, but does anyone know who this Harry actually is? I guess not as he'd get his ass kicked by GW, though do we know if he works for them? Knows someone high up? What?

Harry is the pieman. That's all you need to know.

 Breotan wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
Sure, but the two "Lost Legions" won't be done, so we'll only get 19 (baring duplicates).

It will be interesting to see if they make two models for Alpharius and his siamese twin or only one for him.

Oh no, we'll just get a pack of Heresy-era Alpha Legionnaires.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm going to go with the 'Going mad?' option here!

I dunno, I reckon he might have something there:



Surely I'm not the only person to see it?!?!!?

If they're going to do primarchs, I'd be interested in how they do Magnus.

Because a primarch that can face down a Gargant and atomise it with his mind isn't something I can see working in even an apocalypse game.

 -Loki- wrote:
If they're going to do primarchs, I'd be interested in how they do Magnus.

Because a primarch that can face down a Gargant and atomise it with his mind isn't something I can see working in even an apocalypse game.

Leman Russ jumps on Titans from Skyscrapers and wrecks them with his bare hands, what's the difference

Excellent work Pacific, it's so much clearer now! Who'd have known that John Lennon was actually to become a Space Marine?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
If they're going to do primarchs, I'd be interested in how they do Magnus.

Because a primarch that can face down a Gargant and atomise it with his mind isn't something I can see working in even an apocalypse game.

Leman Russ jumps on Titans from Skyscrapers and wrecks them with his bare hands, what's the difference

I guess they'd each be given a certain Strength: D power that can only be used in certain situations. Magnus, it's a psychic power, Russ it's close combat. Lorgar would have the point of view gun from Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy...

But yeah, something that is activated to reflect that characters strongest attribute.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
If they're going to do primarchs, I'd be interested in how they do Magnus.

Because a primarch that can face down a Gargant and atomise it with his mind isn't something I can see working in even an apocalypse game.

Leman Russ jumps on Titans from Skyscrapers and wrecks them with his bare hands, what's the difference

Not having to use your hands. Even a Thousand Sons sorcerer could stop a titan with his mind without touching it - boil the blood of the crew, crush the crew, etc. Things they've done in the HH series.

To grab another part from A Thousand Sons, 'I could smash your ships to peices with a thought, choose your next words carefully'.

Magnus really is the one primarch I really can't see being ever balanced on the tabletop without severely, arbitrarily limiting what he can do.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
If they're going to do primarchs, I'd be interested in how they do Magnus.

Because a primarch that can face down a Gargant and atomise it with his mind isn't something I can see working in even an apocalypse game.

Leman Russ jumps on Titans from Skyscrapers and wrecks them with his bare hands, what's the difference

Not having to use your hands. Even a Thousand Sons sorcerer could stop a titan with his mind without touching it - boil the blood of the crew, crush the crew, etc. Things they've done in the HH series.

To grab another part from A Thousand Sons, 'I could smash your ships to peices with a thought, choose your next words carefully'.

Magnus really is the one primarch I really can't see being ever balanced on the tabletop without severely, arbitrarily limiting what he can do.

It was said in jest,Russ could use his head, I understand your point. But like you say, a Thousand Sons Sorcerer, any psyker for that matter, could do this anyway, but there aren't these issues in game now are there? You just give Magnus some awesome Psychic powers that aren't too extreme.

 -Loki- wrote:
If they're going to do primarchs, I'd be interested in how they do Magnus.

Because a primarch that can face down a Gargant and atomise it with his mind isn't something I can see working in even an apocalypse game.

Yeah because Marines are able to do all the things on the table they do in the fluff...


Seriously though. They already have rules for one Daemon Primarch published in White Dwarf (Angron). He's pretty tame and that's the Daemon version of him, so even if they boost them up a bit from there they still aren't going to be in the destroy a titan level despite what the fluff stories say they can.

Sanguinius was able to kill a Bloodthirster back in the old story, but that was still put forth like it was kind of a big deal (although he had been fighting for quite a while at that point), so frankly that's all I'm looking for in Primarch power levels if they give them rules in the game...they should be able to best most if not all current characters/Graeter Daemons in CC and that's about it.

Frankly I don't even think they should be able to take those giant Daemon Lords from Imperial Armor by themselves (IMHO).

Fulgrim can choke out a Wraithlord...

 kronk wrote:
Fulgrim can choke out a Wraithlord...

And wear makeup

daveNYC wrote:
The only bummer rumor I heard was that they were not going to do pre-Heresy rules. Probably not a huge issue for most legions, but for the Thousand Sons that would be a less than optimal decision. I'd really like to have pre-Heresy rules that allow for squads based on the Prospero cults. Plus there is only a very narrow time period where the Sons have turned traitor, but haven't invoked the Rubric (and we already have Rubric rules).

Not having the Burning of Prospero as a book would just be loco though.

It really depends on how you define pre-heresy and heresy as they tend to blend together. I wouldn't automatically think you woulnd't get those rules as they still had the cults during the heresy.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Fulgrim can choke out a Wraithlord...

And wear makeup

Wargear: More Eyeliner than Sanguinius +5 point

 kronk wrote:
Fulgrim can choke out on a Wraithlord...

Am i the only one who read that like this?

I mean, how big is a wraithlord...

Sanguinius was prescient so your opponent has to tell you what he's going to do the next turn and then actually do that.

I was under the impression that it wasn't just "a Greater Demon of Khorne" and it was more along the lines of the Greatest Demon of Khorne.

There was a HH Fandex out there somewhere that was actually pretty good with the Primarchs.

 yakface wrote:

Sanguinius was able to kill a Bloodthirster back in the old story, but that was still put forth like it was kind of a big deal (although he had been fighting for quite a while at that point), so frankly that's all I'm looking for in Primarch power levels if they give them rules in the game...they should be able to best most if not all current characters/Graeter Daemons in CC and that's about it.

Frankly I don't even think they should be able to take those giant Daemon Lords from Imperial Armor by themselves (IMHO).

Well, to be fair--he actually did kill one of the giant Daemon Lords! The Thirster he beat was Ka'Bandha--considered 'the' Bloodthirster. Still, I understand your point--and would rather them make the Primarchs playable instead of Mary Sue stat lines.

I think the Tempus Fugitives nailed the Primarch rules--would love them to use similar stats/abilities/honor guard rules. I wouldn't be surprised if they did--as the Tempus guys seem 'prescient' about some rules...

robertsjf wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Fulgrim can choke out a Wraithlord...

And wear makeup

Wargear: More Eyeliner than Sanguinius +5 point

Pfft, Sanguinius has prettier hair.

But is is black or is it blond, maybe it's a wig?

Edit: after 17 attempts to correct the quotes I gave up

 Pilau Rice wrote:
But is is black or is it blond, maybe it's a wig?

Different wargear options.

 Manchu wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
But is is black or is it blond, maybe it's a wig?

Different wargear options.

Pretty Wig and Fighting Wig

 kronk wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

 Fireball wrote:
I love that Primarchs will finally be done by GW ... and given the quality of finecast its better that they are produced by FW. But the downside is that I want them all ... not just Fulgrim, or Angron, or Ferrus Manus ... I want all 20 of them ... NOW

Technically there are 21 primarchs but I digress.......

Sure, but the two "Lost Legions" won't be done, so we'll only get 19 (baring duplicates).

Well we can always hope!

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
But is is black or is it blond, maybe it's a wig?

Different wargear options.

Pretty Wig and Fighting Wig

Wait, are you saying only one is pretty??? Now we know how the heresy really started! You know, with GW making a mint on licensing these days and so many male geeky types liking girly stuff like My Little Pony and Tonner dolls, a Sanguinius Barbie cannot be too far behind.

As to the book, it will be interesting to see which Primarchs get printed first. Can't say I'm especially excited about a non-daemon stat line for Angron. But any models would be appreciated.

I can barely wait. Pre heresy Night Lords here I come.

 Manchu wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
But is is black or is it blond, maybe it's a wig?

Different wargear options.

Pretty Wig and Fighting Wig

Wait, are you saying only one is pretty??? Now we know how the heresy really started! You know, with GW making a mint on licensing these days and so many male geeky types liking girly stuff like My Little Pony and Tonner dolls, a Sanguinius Barbie cannot be too far behind.

As to the book, it will be interesting to see which Primarchs get printed first. Can't say I'm especially excited about a non-daemon stat line for Angron. But any models would be appreciated.

Primarch beauty contest. The Emperor preferred his Little Angel whilst Horus preferred Miss Perfect. Fisticuffs ensue.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
Well, to be fair--he actually did kill one of the giant Daemon Lords! The Thirster he beat was Ka'Bandha--considered 'the' Bloodthirster. Still, I understand your point--and would rather them make the Primarchs playable instead of Mary Sue stat lines.

I think the Tempus Fugitives nailed the Primarch rules--would love them to use similar stats/abilities/honor guard rules. I wouldn't be surprised if they did--as the Tempus guys seem 'prescient' about some rules...

I have no doubt that they've updated the story since (was what you're referring to in the visions of Heresy books?), because I'm sure for your re-creation of the Palace Gates battle you dug it all up.

But the original story back in the day was:

Both sides fought with unimaginable naked ferocity. Both sides sensed the end was near. Eventually Sanguinius was forced to retreat to within the palace itself, personally holding the Ultimate Gate against the oncoming horde while the last of his wounded men was carried through. Just as the giant ceramite gate was about to close a Bloodthirster of Khorne leapt upon him. The daemon's huge talons closed around his throat. Sanguinius took to the air. Angel and daemon wrestled over the warring armies. Both sides halted for a moment to watch the titanic struggle. It was a conflict such as has been rarely seen; two beings of awesome power wrestled.

Sanguinius was weary and near the end of his strength and the daemon gouged great wounds in his flesh. The heretical throng roared its approval as the Primarch was cast to the ground, the impact splintering the granite. For a moment the Primarch lay still and a groan rose from the Blood Angels, the daemon stood over him and howled in exultation. Then slowly and painfully the Blood Angel rose and seized the creature, raised it high and broke its back across his knee. Then with a halo of power playing round his head he tossed its broken carcass back amid its followers. They beat their chests and rent their hair and wailed in dismay as the Ultimate Gate shut.

I never liked the "breaking it's back across his knee" bit, couldn't understand how that would work unless it was a very small Bloodthirster, or Sanguinius was twenty feet tall.

yakface wrote: Angel and daemon wrestled over the warring armies. Both sides halted for a moment to watch the titanic struggle. It was a conflict such as has been rarely seen; two beings of awesome power wrestled.

Sounds like they used the challenge rule during the heresy...

I really haven't had interest in a loyalist marine chapter in a very long time, but these books may well change that. Problem is, which chapter to choose?!

Definitely excited about Primarch models. That may be what pushes me over the edge. Gonna be tough to resist buying them all for the sake of it, but I'm sure the prices will crush that idea in short order.

 yakface wrote:


I have no doubt that they've updated the story since (was what you're referring to in the visions of Heresy books?), because I'm sure for your re-creation of the Palace Gates battle you dug it all up.

Yeah, it was out of Visions--same Thirster that broke his legs prior to the Siege. What I liked most about that old WD school story you referenced--was how graphic it was when it alked about what Horus did to the Big E before he finally killed him.

/As an aside--I actually had to go back and read the old King WD article as I didn't believe you--I guess after reading Visions my mind just filled in the old story too--good catch!

 plastictrees wrote:
or Sanguinius was twenty feet tall.

Thats the kinda size i imagine the emperor to be. If primarchs were 15ft tall, i dont see it being that much of a stretch to break a thirster over the knee.

 Starfarer wrote:
I really haven't had interest in a loyalist marine chapter in a very long time, but these books may well change that. Problem is, which chapter to choose?!

Definitely excited about Primarch models. That may be what pushes me over the edge. Gonna be tough to resist buying them all for the sake of it, but I'm sure the prices will crush that idea in short order.

I'm not sure why we need a FW suppliment to showcse marine vs. marine battle, isn't that pretty much 90% of the games played already anyways?

Because its hopefully not just gonna be generic marine vs marine, its gonna be horus heresy, with fitting rules.

 CT GAMER wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I really haven't had interest in a loyalist marine chapter in a very long time, but these books may well change that. Problem is, which chapter to choose?!

Definitely excited about Primarch models. That may be what pushes me over the edge. Gonna be tough to resist buying them all for the sake of it, but I'm sure the prices will crush that idea in short order.

I'm not sure why we need a FW suppliment to showcse marine vs. marine battle, isn't that pretty much 90% of the games played already anyways?

Maybe for some people it is. There isn't a single loyalist marine player among my friends for their primary armies. However, several of them have old marine armies from way back in the day that could be pulled out and with the books play the Heresy campaigns. In my case, marine vs. marine will be a change of pace.

 Vitruvian XVII wrote:
Because its hopefully not just gonna be generic marine vs marine, its gonna be horus heresy, with fitting rules.

And there's also that. I imagine the books will be more a way to reenact the epic battles of the Heresy, which sounds like a blast! And there were rumors that it would have it's own rules set to distinguish it from standard 40k.

 Vitruvian XVII wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
or Sanguinius was twenty feet tall.

Thats the kinda size i imagine the emperor to be. If primarchs were 15ft tall, i dont see it being that much of a stretch to break a thirster over the knee.

The Emperor was not 20 feet tall, geeze. He wouldn't be able to fit into anything!

Space Marines, on average, are about 7 feet tall. The Primarchs might trend a little taller, but nowhere near 15 feet!

Pretty sure Lion El Johnson was "just under 3 meters" which equates to about 12 feet tall. Magnus was considered the giant at around 15 ft tall with mortarion between the former two.

Also Abbadon is one of the biggest non-primarch space marines and he was dwarfed by horus.

Sources: Horus Heresy Books

actually it's under ten. Never did get the old imperial system though.

It will certainly be interesting to see how the FW sculptors interpret the sizes.

Even the HH: Collected Visions book can't agree, look at these for instance:





Although, I do think in the first pic there is a bit of 'artists prerogative' going on - reminds me a little of the old Fist of the North Star cartoons, that is the size that the Space Wolves perceive magnus to be, rather than him actually being 30ft tall.

I'm sure there's numerous references to Magnus being able to control his size, growing in stature to 30 feet tall, and then shrinking back down to [normal man size / normal marine size - delete as appropriate] in Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons...

The guys in the second picture are also in Terminator Armour so would be a bit bigger than your regular power armour clad Marine. But yeah, there's quite a difference.

I always wondered, wouldn't those Ox horns get in the way all the time, especially in the first picture, looks as if he nearly impaled his arm on the left one.

Liquidice281 wrote:
Pretty sure Lion El Johnson was "just under 3 meters" which equates to about 12 feet tall. Magnus was considered the giant at around 15 ft tall with mortarion between the former two.

Sources: Horus Heresy Books

I just read "Descent of Angels" and remember that quote about the size of Lio El Johnson as well (and I shaked my head about it). To be more powerful it should not be necessary to be much larger for genetically enhanced beings such as primarchs and Space Marines.

As GW models of SM in power armor are not bigger than eg. Imperial Guard troops I think they will be reasonable and not make models of primarchs much bigger. It will just look silly ... I just think about the Queen and King of the Wood Elves in Fantasy ...

Yeah but regular Guardsmen are out of scale with Marine miniatures. FW's Kriegers are closer to what a standard human should be next to a 7' tall Marine.

Especially when they're closer to 8' or taller in armor.

No way GW's turning back that particular clock though, so we're stuck with gargantuan Catachans and too tall Cadians - forever.

Figures FW would make guardsmen in the right scale!

 Alpharius wrote:
Especially when they're closer to 8' or taller in armor.

They're not. They're 7' in armour. There's even a big scale drawing of one at GW. "But it stops at 8 feet!" you are probably gearing up to say. Yes. The head is at 8 feet. And the Marine's feet start at 1 foot above the ground. 8 - 1 = 7.

Marines are not 8 feet tall.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Especially when they're closer to 8' or taller in armor.

They're not. They're 7' in armour. There's even a big scale drawing of one at GW. "But it stops at 8 feet!" you are probably gearing up to say. Yes. The head is at 8 feet. And the Marine's feet start at 1 foot above the ground. 8 - 1 = 7.

Marines are not 8 feet tall.

They are.

It is foolish to think that every marine is exactly (X) feet tall, in or out of armor.

They are 7 to 8 feet tall out of armor, and probably 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 feet tall in armor.

And that has nothing to do with the goofy "Jes Goodwin In Front of a Marine" drawing either.

So, Primarchs will probably be scaled to 9 to 10 feet tall, give or take, hopefully.

 Alpharius wrote:
Especially when they're closer to 8' or taller in armor.

No way GW's turning back that particular clock though, so we're stuck with gargantuan Catachans and too tall Cadians - forever.

Figures FW would make guardsmen in the right scale!

Chaos cultists don't seem to be as out of proportion as the Cadian/Catachans so I don't think it's outwith the realms of possibility that the next IG release will see new infantry kits. The major problem with that cross over being the Tank drivers... hmmm...

I find it funny how to topic of discussion went from how expensive the models will be to how tall space marines are. Let me throw out a few pieces here.

1) FW is expensive, and for primarchs will be priced as such
2) possibly limited edition??
3) We all know, and dont deny it, that GW has a problem with fluff scale to model scale. for instance titans being depicted as being so tall they are in the skyline......yet, in fluff they are around 30-60 meters tall.

Im just saying guys....I know we all want primarchs. Some would probably give up there first unborn child to get them all.

 Alpharius wrote:
They are.

Excellent rebuttal.

 Alpharius wrote:
It is foolish to think that every marine is exactly (X) feet tall, in or out of armor.

I never said they were exactly X feet tall. I said that they weren't 8 feet tall.

 Alpharius wrote:
They are 7 to 8 feet tall out of armor, and probably 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 feet tall in armor.

Based on? Due to? Because of? You're just making statements. Something has to be behind those statements Alpha.

 Alpharius wrote:
And that has nothing to do with the goofy "Jes Goodwin In Front of a Marine" drawing either.

Excellent rebuttal (x2). Calling the picture 'goofy' in no way disproves its legitimacy. That picture indicates that Marines are generally, in armour, around 7 feet tall. This puts them at, generally, under 7 feet tall out of armour. They are not 8 feet tall.

I'm with HBMC on this one, I'm not fond of the super-huge SM direction that BL have been taking.

You may not be fond of it, but there it is.

Numerous more recent sources have listed Marine heights as well over 7 feet in armor.

And I thought I read that Jes admitted to getting the drawing wrong, and it should have started out at zero, yes, and it also should have ended at 8.

Jes is also rather famously prickly about the whole "True Scale" movement, blaming it more on IG being made too big and not on Space Marines being too small. So, he really did mean for them to be 8 ft tall in armor, and most sources of background seem to be in agreement with this.

All this is neither here nor there.

Primarchs will hopefully not be too big though, as that will not look right next to the not quite right scaled 'regular' marines.

I think that FW will do them justice though - I'm just worried about them being too expensive!

We should make a poll in 40k discussions about how big space marines are.

Magnus is the tallest Primarch, and smallest, because he can "change his size" for whatever fething reason. Angron is the shortest, that's why he's angry all of the time and needs to attend anger management class, see. (South Park Reference)

I'd really like for BL to say, point blank, how tall space marines are in a novel. 7' to 8' seems like a reasonable range for power armor. 7.5-8.5 for terminator armor, perhaps. I don't know, but then, neither do any of you with 100% certainty.

Back to the HH stuff, I want a Dorn model so bad. Like BADx2 or something!

Why is Forge World a subsidiary company of GW??? It should really be the other way around; their products are better, the resin casts are more complete, even their trailers are cooler.

If you look at the cover of Tales of Heresy it is almost an exact match to the reflection.
Seems the reflection has a back icon,probally the round World Eater teeth shown on the cover of Weakness of Others

I want a ferrus manus personally.

Did i read that they were supposedly doing 4 primarchs first? Who do you reckon we'll see first?

 Vitruvian XVII wrote:
I want a ferrus manus personally.

Did i read that they were supposedly doing 4 primarchs first? Who do you reckon we'll see first?

Horus
Mortarion
Fulgrim
Angron

Looks like the first books is about the purging of those four legions so it would make sense to have those primarchs...... that if they only do 4 at one time though.

Call me a traditionalist but I want Guilliman.

And Fulgrim!

Surely guilliman wouldnt be first, given that he didnt really do anything for ages.

Oh I don't think he will be. I just want a model of him.

vigilante87 wrote:

2) possibly limited edition??

Jeeze it would be just like GW to do something stupid like that. Take the most sought after range of figures they're ever likely to release and then choke off the number of people who can actually buy them.

I think the first four will be from the group on Istavaan when the Betrayal really got started.

So... pick from Corax, Ferrus, Vulkan... and Angron, Curze, and.. Fulgrim?

I can't keep straight the various versions of that event that GWs had over the years.

Never mind the fact that they changed the spelling of the place too!

Oooh a Corax model would be sweet.

You are thinking of Istvann V, aka the Dropsite Massacres.

This is almost surely Istvann III, when Horus attempted to purge the loyalists from the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, World Eaters and Emperor's Children. Though he failed, and several loyalists (Nathaniel Garro, Saul Tarvitz, etc) escaped aboard the Eisenstein to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal.

Although I would almost bet money that Istvann V will be the next book. Istvann V was a reaction to Istvann III, when several legions were sent to apprehend Horus for his virus bombing of the planet. Possibilities include Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard (those three almost assuredly) as well as Night Lords, Word Bearers and Iron Warriors.

 ashrog wrote:
You are thinking of Istvann V, aka the Dropsite Massacres.

This is almost surely Istvann III, when Horus attempted to purge the loyalists from the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, World Eaters and Emperor's Children. Though he failed, and several loyalists (Nathaniel Garro, Saul Tarvitz, etc) escaped aboard the Eisenstein to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal.

Although I would almost bet money that Istvann V will be the next book. Istvann V was a reaction to Istvann III, when several legions were sent to apprehend Horus for his virus bombing of the planet. Possibilities include Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard (those three almost assuredly) as well as Night Lords, Word Bearers and Iron Warriors.

I thought Saul Tarvitz died on Istvann?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
I think the first four will be from the group on Istavaan when the Betrayal really got started.

So... pick from Corax, Ferrus, Vulkan... and Angron, Curze, and.. Fulgrim?

I can't keep straight the various versions of that event that GWs had over the years.

Never mind the fact that they changed the spelling of the place too!

Seems unlikely that if only 4 come out they would include Corax, Ferrus, and Vulkan. The book looks specifically geared towards the culling of the traitor legions. If that really is the case AND we are only getting 4 primarchs to go along with the book then it would have to be the following primarchs:

Horus
Fulgrim
Angron
Mortarion

Personally I would be surprised if we only got 4 primarchs at once. I could see them being staggered but my guess is you will get more. Just a feeling though!

 ashrog wrote:
You are thinking of Istvann V, aka the Dropsite Massacres.

This is almost surely Istvann III, when Horus attempted to purge the loyalists from the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, World Eaters and Emperor's Children. Though he failed, and several loyalists (Nathaniel Garro, Saul Tarvitz, etc) escaped aboard the Eisenstein to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal.

You are, of course, correct!

Having only 'traitor' Primarchs in the first wave would seem like a bit of a missed opportunity though.

I'm sure they'll figure out a way to include some loyalists, like Alpharius...

Well, if it is about the Drop Pod massacres then Fulgrim and his BFF with the metal hands are an obvious choice, seeing as they duked it out during the height of the battle.

 Alpharius wrote:


I'm sure they'll figure out a way to include some loyalists, like Alpharius...

So Loyalists....
Which of the possibly changing looks of the Primarchs are what we most likely get?

Like the cover art from the HH series ( at Ullanor IIRC ).?

I'd love to see the Primarchs done in the much-hated Blanche style from the Collected Visions book.

I'd love to see a Horus "Before the Fall" version. That would send me into pre-heresy Luna Wolves--Loken territory.

I have no idea which Primarch I'd like to see first, but Sanguinus and Fulgrim are most definitely up there. The "most beautiful primarchs" must surely equate to the most beautiful models...!?!

I'd be surprised if they launched them in multiples to be honest, as people would only buy the ones they wanted most before their cash dried out. It'd make much more sense to release them one at a time. Compare it to Black Library; they don't release the exclusives in multiples, makes sense to do the same through FW.

Excluding Event only models, have FW ever done other limited edition models?

 BrookM wrote:
I'd love to see the Primarchs done in the much-hated Blanche style from the Collected Visions book.

They would look great painted as statues

 BrookM wrote:
I'd love to see the Primarchs done in the much-hated Blanche style from the Collected Visions book.

While I totally respect that you want that, my reaction is to say: "Oh dear god no!"

JB does some awesome concept work, and has a real talent for art direction it seems. However, his stuff really needs to be worked by someone who can take his crazy ideas and make them more plausible. In my opinion, anyway.

~Eric

Taarnak wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I'd love to see the Primarchs done in the much-hated Blanche style from the Collected Visions book.

While I totally respect that you want that, my reaction is to say: "Oh dear god no!"

JB does some awesome concept work, and has a real talent for art direction it seems. However, his stuff really needs to be worked by someone who can take his crazy ideas and make them more plausible. In my opinion, anyway.

~Eric

I think Brook was joking.

At least, I hope he was.

The Blanche Alpharius is one of the worst, if not THE worst, depiction of Alpharius I've ever had the misfortune to see.

And the others were pretty bad too.

He of the randomly gold armour and giant eyebrows?

Thing is--any Alpharius sculpt is bound to disappoint. By most canon, he was nondescript and appeared as a normal legionnaire

There's plenty of ways he could be awesome.

Maybe have both Alpharius and Omegon on the same scenic base, back to back in somewhat ornate (but not overly so) Alpha Legion Captain armour gunning down a load of dudes.

I think a Termie sized mk4 for Alpharuis would work,my guess is they will use the cover of Legion for him.

First forge world book I've ever considered buying.

 Pacific wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm going to go with the 'Going mad?' option here!

I dunno, I reckon he might have something there:



Surely I'm not the only person to see it?!?!!?

 Eisenhorn wrote:
I think a Termie sized mk4 for Alpharuis would work,my guess is they will use the cover of Legion for him.

That would work for me.

The old fluff had Alpha Legion marines being unusually tall, and since Alpharius was eye to eye with Horus... back then...

Anyway, large but not in overly ornate armor would work just fine!

Considering Alpharius and Omegon tried to blend in as regular Alpha Legionaries their models are bound to be the most boring of the lot.

I think it would be really cool if they made the sculpt look something like Kirk Douglas...

There are any number of ways to do something clever for an Alpharius sculpt. They could just make him ordinary looking and awesome, or they could release a set of five similar awesome sculpts, one of whom may or may not be Alpharius.

 Temujin wrote:
There are any number of ways to do something clever for an Alpharius sculpt. They could just make him ordinary looking and awesome, or they could release a set of five similar awesome sculpts, one of whom may or may not be Alpharius.

An Alpharius model will be awesome for a couple of reasons:

1) It is Alpharius!
2) It will be bigger, even if only slightly so, and it will have enough Pre-Heresy goodness on it to justify it being a freakin' Primarch!

Alpharius wasn't always hiding his identity, after all!

Oh, and #3 is - we'll have RULES for him too!

Hmmm sounds interesting and would love to start a pre heresy army, but there is no fething way I am gonna fork out £21 for an incomplete set of five pre heresy space marines.

 Pacific wrote:
I think it would be really cool if they made the sculpt look something like Kirk Douglas...

"I'm Alpharius!"

"No, I'M Alpharius!"

"I'm Alpharius."

"I'm Alpharius."

"I'M Alpharius!"

 Nagashek wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
I think it would be really cool if they made the sculpt look something like Kirk Douglas...

"I'm Alpharius!"

"No, I'M Alpharius!"

"I'm Alpharius."

"I'm Alpharius."

"I'M Alpharius!"

"I'm Alpharius, and so's my wife!"

Just got a FW order through, it came with a little badge I hadn't seen before.



Presumably it's to do with this release? Couldn't see any pictures of it anywhere.

That is indeed a little "teaser" gift.

Nice.


meanwhile.....

http://www.thebolthole.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2081

GW Staff member wrote:This is very exciting, isn't it?

The first book is AMAZING. As an enthusiast of both the Warhammer 40,000 background and game, I loved it on pretty much every level.

And Black Library have been involved (and will continue to be) at every step of the process, to ensure consistency between the two product ranges. But make no mistake - this is Forge World's project, and their work. Alan Bligh has played an absolute blinder...

sounds better and better.

Do we have any info on a release? Im guessing we'll see something at GD:UK.

That's most assuredly what the trailer suggests at the end yes ?

True

I would imagine that the first 4 primarchs would be Angron, Horus, Fulgrim and Mortarion.

To balance it out there will likely be rules and/or models for Saul Tarvitz, Garviel Loken, Tarik Torgaddon and 1 or 2 others, possibly the Emperors Children and the Death Guard, named in the HH books (cant remember their names).
On the flip side there would be rules for Lucius, Charmosian, Eidolon, Little Horus Aximand and Abaddon, possibly Erebus, as technically the Word Bearers fell from grace first, but concealed it.

In the virus bombings I believe that there were very few Death Guard survivors and no named captains that spring to mind on the ground, there was a named captain of the World Eaters with whom Tarvitz met and told him of the treachery of Horus & the primarchs, but they got wiped out almost to a man by Angron.

I wouldnt mind seeing rules for Fabius Bile and maybe some "chosen" marines, such as the ones he experimented on.

As a side issue, nobody saw Tarvitz die, certainly he stood with the last of his men and watched the world get blown apart, just as Loken saw blackness and we all saw him resurrected by the Garro stories... I fnd it highly unlikely it would happen again, but you never know!

While some complain about lack of loyalist forces/ primarchs.. you can still have that as it is a civil war, but at the end of the day Istvaan 3 was a (costly) win for the followers or Horus and I would think that it would only allow their use in specific scenarios or games of a certain pointage to try and keep some sort of balance.

Besides from memory I do not remember any of the primarchs except Angron making planetfall, maybe this will change in the FW book.

As for scale I do not remember anything being mentioned about sizes of Primarchs except that, Corax could carry a heavy bolter as if it were a mere bolter to another marine, and in Legion Alpharius/ Omegon was barely distinguishable from the other marines except being fractionally taller than those marines around him (and they were in power armour). So each is different I guess and IF they make them I hope they make each one unique in height build etc.

Just my thoughts.

 dantay_xv wrote:
I would imagine that the first 4 primarchs would be Angron, Horus, Fulgrim and Mortarion.

To balance it out there will likely be rules and/or models for Saul Tarvitz, Garviel Loken, Tarik Torgaddon and 1 or 2 others, possibly the Emperors Children and the Death Guard, named in the HH books (cant remember their names).
On the flip side there would be rules for Lucius, Charmosian, Eidolon, Little Horus Aximand and Abaddon, possibly Erebus.

In the virus bombings I believe that there were very few Death Guard survivors and no named captains that spring to mind on the ground, there was a named captain of the World Eaters with whom Tarvitz met and told him of the treachery of Horus & the primarchs, but they got wiped out almost to a man by Angron.

I wouldnt mind seeing rules for Fabius Bile and maybe some "chosen" marines, such as the ones he experimented on.

As a side issue, nobody saw Tarvitz die, certainly he stood with the last of his men and watched the world get blown apart, just as Loken saw blackness and we all saw him resurrected by the Garro stories... I fnd it highly unlikely it would happen again, but you never know!

While some complain about lack of loyalist forces/ primarchs.. you can still have that as it is a civil war, but at the end of the day Istvaan 3 was a (costly) win for the followers or Horus and I would think that it would only allow their use in specific scenarios or games of a certain pointage to try and keep some sort of balance.

Besides from memory I do not remember any of the primarchs except Angron making planetfall, maybe this will change in the FW book.

As for scale I do not remember anything being mentioned about sizes of Primarchs except that, Corax could carry a heavy bolter as if it were a mere bolter to another marine, and in Legion Alpharius/ Omegon was barely distinguishable from the other marines except being fractionally taller than those marines around him (and they were in power armour). So each is different I guess and IF they make them I hope they make each one unique in height build etc.

Just my thoughts.

Great post--and I'm in complete agreement. I would love to make a "Before the fall" Luna Wolves heresy force---especially if they produce a Torgaddon model. He was a great character and one of my favorites of the series.

GW Staff member wrote:

And Black Library have been involved (and will continue to be) at every step of the process, to ensure consistency between the two product ranges. But make no mistake - this is Forge World's project, and their work. Alan Bligh has played an absolute blinder...

There really isn't anything all that comforting about any part of that statement.

@ age of egos. Torgaddon was one of the stand-out characters and also one of the best, such a shame he had to die in the 3rd book.
Just more thoughts.

As you can tell i really like my fluff and the Horus Heresy in particular & I am really praying that BL & FW work together closely on this. This is just my thoughts and hopes, not rumour or fact...I also really hope they follow it through the battles, beginning with Istvaan And do not go in chronological order.

As we all know that the Wordbearers & Thousand Sons fell first. Word bearers intentionally after their censure from the Ultramarines and the Thousand Sons unwittingly through their hubris, believing they could tame the warp.

Books 2 & 3 could be the drop-site massacre at Istvaan 5. Book 2 covering loyalist forces and the initial clashes, Raven Guard, Salamanders & Iron Hands. Could involve beach head missions etc.
Book 3 would bring in the Night Lords, Iron Warriors & Word Bearers. Rearguard battles, last stands, break out missions.

Book 4, Prospero. Thousand Sons, Tzeentch daemons and spawn plus Spire Guard versus Space Wolves, Custodians & Sisters of Silence.

Book 5, Calth. Ultramarines & PDF versus Cultists and Lesser Daemons , plus new Word Bearer characters or new Lorgar rules as he descends further into Chaos.

Book 6. The Khan versus the Hydra, Alpha Legion versus White Scars. It is well known that the Alpha Legion was sent to delay the Space Wolves & the White Scars. Around the same time, the Dark Angels were busy hunting the Night Lords. This could be based around small scale engagements, skirmish games, space battles etc. With Primarchs.

Book 7. The calm before the storm. Unit updates, such as adding in new Raven Guard units, (the tainted marines) etc, a general catch up and put in new units, such is the warping power of Chaos.

Book 8 mechanicum, the war on Mars, knights, titans skitarii, the 'void dragon awakes.

Books 9 & 10. Terra, Introducing Imperial Fists & the Phalanx, hit and run battles etc.... Then the battle for Terra itself. New Primarch rules and models new units, plague marines, berserkers, noise marines etc. Titan rules etc.
Blood Angels introduced, Ka'Bandha blah blah... Even An Emperor model & rules for a Duel with Horus.

As you can see the scope and the way they do the releases is endless and I would lap it up, bit it would also occur over a long time.

As for Alpharius, I imagine 2 releases. 1 as fairly non- descript, the other in full dress regalia, as described in the limited novella about Lorgar and what he saw in the eye of terror, the part where the heretic Primarchs have a conference call and he is in fancy armour.

Geez I can ramble, sorry if this is off-topic.

Faeit 212 wrote:The Horus Heresy book 1 will have rules for playing Space Marine Legions.

Each legion gets a unique special rule for all space marines.

Each Legion is getting a unique elites option.

HQs get some unique wargear based on legion as well.

Guard are in the list and operate like platoons from the 40k dex. Essentially being a list within a list needing command + 2 units and can then take others.

They can't blob, but they can be taken in squads up to 30 anyways.

Super heavy tanks are in, but are BS4 with space marine crew.

Legions have the option of taking allies from other space marine forces, Titans or guard air force.

Betrayal has the legion rules for Luna wolves, death guard, emperor's children and world eaters

Primarchs are Apocalypse only and pretty baller.

No rules for Horus until the Battle for Terra book.

Mortarion, angrin and fulgrim are in.

Space marines are fearless and a basic marine is 16 pts with bolter, bp, ccw and their legion rule or generic place holder.

Games are recommended to be played at 2,500 points or more.

One of the special scenarios calls for 10,000 points per side and ISN'T apocalypse.

There is a section on Xenos which suggests that some heresy era rules may come for them as well, but in betrayal they are a foot note but can still participate in Volume 1 of the campaign (and presumably throughout).

later in the series to keep it fresh, there will be additional wargear and options for traitor legions in the form of mutations and gifts as well as a rules for using daemons as allies, and similar ally intended lists for sisters of silence and Custodes though nothing will stop you from using these lists as pure armies save that they are not fully fleshed out.


You just nominate your legion, you don't have to purchase a specific special character.

Don't worry though, special characters are in, and they force your legion rule.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/08/betrayal-horus-heresy-book-1-details.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Faeit212+%28Faeit+212%29

Ooh sounds interesting.

 reds8n wrote:

http://www.thebolthole.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2081

GW Staff member wrote:This is very exciting, isn't it?

The first book is AMAZING. As an enthusiast of both the Warhammer 40,000 background and game, I loved it on pretty much every level.

And Black Library have been involved (and will continue to be) at every step of the process, to ensure consistency between the two product ranges. But make no mistake - this is Forge World's project, and their work. Alan Bligh has played an absolute blinder...

sounds better and better.

That statement does absolutely nothing to either increase or decrease my level of enthusiasm for it.

I mean, I really want this book, but why do they bother printing such a waste of air like that from the enigmatic 'GW staff member' ? Is it meant to be a reassurance from an unbiased source?

Does this now mean if the book isn't 'AMAZING ON EVERY LEVEL', and a blinder hasn't been played, I can knock on the door of Warhammer world, and put torch paper to bag of dog poo left on the doormat? I think that would only be fair taking this review in mind.

He's hardly going to write, "The first book is DISAPPOINTING. As someone who is bored of both the Warhammer 40,000 background and game, I disliked it on pretty much every level. Go pick up Privateer press instead"

Actually, if they had done it may have got more interest

I think this is the important bit (to me, anyway):

"And Black Library have been involved (and will continue to be) at every step of the process, to ensure consistency between the two product ranges."

The last thing we need are two blatantly contradictory sources on the Heresy.

I assume you mean that ironically. Then I concur.

It is in excellent hands the BL guy working with them is an EXPERT on the Horus Heresy as said by the man himself.

 dienekes96 wrote:
I assume you mean that ironically. Then I concur.

No. I want these books to be consistent with the novels. I hate inconsistencies.

Knowing that the Black Library guys are involved gives me slightly more faith in the project.

dienekes96 wrote:I assume you mean that ironically. Then I concur.

Me too!

And since this is H.B.M.C., he must be, right?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 dienekes96 wrote:
I assume you mean that ironically. Then I concur.

No. I want these books to be consistent with the novels. I hate inconsistencies.

Oops - guess not!

giothulu wrote:Knowing that the Black Library guys are involved gives me slightly more faith in the project.

Ah... you guys have been paying attention to how 'good' a job BL 'Editorial' has been doing, right?

I don't mean to be cruel, but... combined with FW 'Editorial', well...

 Alpharius wrote:

giothulu wrote:Knowing that the Black Library guys are involved gives me slightly more faith in the project.

Ah... you guys have been paying attention to how 'good' a job BL 'Editorial' has been doing, right?

A pretty good one, when it comes to the Horus Heresy?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

giothulu wrote:Knowing that the Black Library guys are involved gives me slightly more faith in the project.

Ah... you guys have been paying attention to how 'good' a job BL 'Editorial' has been doing, right?

A pretty good one, when it comes to the Horus Heresy?

So you haven't been paying attention then?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

giothulu wrote:Knowing that the Black Library guys are involved gives me slightly more faith in the project.

Ah... you guys have been paying attention to how 'good' a job BL 'Editorial' has been doing, right?

A pretty good one, when it comes to the Horus Heresy?

So you haven't been paying attention then?

I've been paying quite a bit of attention, and the only parts where I've had "issues" are when we've had things fleshed out or revised.

That's going to happen when you're changing things from blurbs in a Codex to an entire novel.

Bad revisions aside, there have been PLENTY of "Editorial" mishaps so far.

So many, in fact, that it calls into question just how much attention you've been paying!

Care to list 'em Alpha? I'm actually quite interested to hear them.

Nevertheless, this is Forge World we’re talking about, the only place where “copy/paste” is a form of religion. If there are consistency errors in the new books then I think it’s safe to say that they’ll be the same errors as the BL books. And that’s comforting.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Care to list 'em Alpha? I'm actually quite interested to hear them.

Nevertheless, this is Forge World we’re talking about, the only place where “copy/paste” is a form of religion. If there are consistency errors in the new books then I think it’s safe to say that they’ll be the same errors as the BL books. And that’s comforting.

I'm still looking for the catching fire rules in Underhive that are referenced for the Hot Shot ammo entry.

The Underhive rulebook may well just be the Bible for that copy/paste religion.

I am all for inconsistencies. We have inconsistencies in Gulf War II, and that thing is STILL GOING ON, the people who were there disagree, and CNN had twelve embedded reporters everywhere. So we can't even get recent history to be consistent. I expect, nay DEMAND, inconsistencies in my Heresy writing. That is where myth lives.

What I would like is less "gotcha" per story. One cataclysmic paradigm shift every other year or so is sufficient (DA hit it out of the park with Legion, but most other attempts have blown).

And I hate writing when literally half of it is po-faced foreshadowing to "present" time. It takes me out of the current story EVERY TIME. It is so cheap.

I'd like for them to at least have a working knowledge of their own timeline and when certain events could or could not have actually taken place though...

Could I just point out that, although I have read every HH book, not everyone will and casually throwing around the deaths and resurrections of certain characters without spoiler tags in general discussion could genuinely spoil somebody's enjoyment of the first books?

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd like for them to at least have a working knowledge of their own timeline and when certain events could or could not have actually taken place though...

... hmm... I think they might well...

" All will be explained in due course. What may appear to be a timeline snafu is more than it seems."

... given a few comments made here and there and one or two things in some of the books I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. For a while anyway.

.. If it is a cock up -- which is possible one must say, then ti'll have to be a bloody great retcon/fix to patch things up.

 azreal13 wrote:
Could I just point out that, although I have read every HH book, not everyone will and casually throwing around the deaths and resurrections of certain characters without spoiler tags in general discussion could genuinely spoil somebody's enjoyment of the first books?

I kind of feel your pain, but not really, especially based on how old the book in question is that you're talking about?

Our UK brothers often get the latest BL releases MONTHS before us over here in the USA - which means I'm avoiding certain threads for a long, long time - until I can catch up!