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The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/23 19:33:37


Post by: Necros


We're working on a new expansion for the game, which will likely be done as a Kickstarter campaign this summer (after the current campaign is totally finished ). I've mentioned it here and there, but now I have some semi official plans laid out and we're going to start developing it.

It will all be based around US & Native American folklore. There will be a series of expansions all based on a different folklore theme and each expansion will have 1 new human gang based on the theme, and 1 new monster horde (gang), along with support packs and larger solo monsters and groups of critters. We'll have a small book to accompany it with the new rules that will also include the new professions and fluff and more. We'll also make support packs for some of the old gangs, with the new professions.

I was originally planning to do it as a big boxes game similar to Super Dungeon Explore or Sedition Wars, but we've decided to just expand upon the existing range of miniatures and just turn the whole game world into this weird west setting. But, folks who want to just stick to a normal more historical setting can just play the human gangs as always. We'll also continue to release normal western gangs too, not just all monsters.

Here's a basic outline of what we're aiming for for the initial release:

Concept - New expansion based on Native American Skinwalker (werewolf) legends. Will introduce the rules for monsters and how to create a pack (gang) of supernatural creatures, in addition to Artrillery for humans. Expansion will consist of 1 new human gang (based on monster hunters), 1 Monster Pack, in addition to several human hired guns and monsters.

Unlike humans, monsters do not have individual characters except for the leader (Alpha), all monsters of a certain race/type will have the same stats and abilities. There are 5 different types of Supernatural Creature, depending upon XP. Alpha (pack leader 100xp), Fiend (75xp), Beast (50xp), Varmint (25xp) and Monsters (like Hired Guns 100xp). Fiends, like Professionals, will have special abilities and +1 to an attribute. Beasts are basically henchmen and 2 Varmints count as 1 henchmen for the purposes of gang/pack creation.

A special ability for all supernatural creatures is they may always run & attack as if they have the "Run & Gun" skill. Very few creatures have ranged attacks, so this is to make up for all of the guns people have. Werebats and Mothmen can fly but not run, moving up to 12" and ignoring any obstacles in their path. Werewolves are the most common, thus the Skinwalker starter is just werewolves, other werebeasts will be added via support packs or solo monsters.

New Professions:

Monster Hunter: +1 Strength, -1 bonus to hit supernatural creatures.
Engineer: +1 Intellect, able to use unique weapons, -1 to target number when fixing broken machines or artillery. -1 to hit when firing artillery.

Starter sets:
Unsung - Monster hunter gang leader, engineer, gunslinger & 2 henchmen
Skinwalkers - Werewolf Alpha, 2 werewolves (fiends), 2 chupacabras (beasts)

Support Packs:
Unsung Scouting Party - Prospector, 2 henchmen
Unsung Medical Team - Doctor, 2 henchmen
Skinwalker Mothman - Mothman (fiend), 2 Armadillodon (beast)
Skinwalker Stalkers - WerePuma (fiend), 2 Splintercats (beast)

Hired Guns: Slayers - Ashford Campbell, Samuel Manchester, Dean Manchester

Monsters: (sold separately)
Sasquach
Jersey Devil

Varmints: (sold separately)
Jackalopes (set of 4)
Fangworms (set of 4)

Other werebeasts: Werebat (like Bram Strokers Dracula), WereCroc, WereBison (minotaur)


So that's all we have so far.. still a ways to go


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 02:41:18


Post by: Kanluwen


Hah. I missed the Mothman.

I see myself enjoying this thread quite a bit.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 15:53:27


Post by: Necros


Yeah, Mothman might be a little more modern, but we'll give him a western spin. I wanted to do some kind of were-insect and figured that would be a good one.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 16:08:26


Post by: Kanluwen


Why a were-insect and why not have insect swarms as part of the Skinwalker gang?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 19:04:39


Post by: Necros


Because a big insect man thing would be cool In the fluff it'll be that once the Skinwalker curse takes over, people become whatever animal spirit they have an affinity for. A brave and cunning gunslinger might be a wolf, a tough brute guy would be a bear, someone that might have been an evil murderer type could be an insect. Any skinwalker can join a skinwalker "gang", they don't all have to be wolves, in fact it will be good to diversify the same way a human gang would add different professions.

Yeah we could do swarms. I was just thinking we could do the support packs as 1 fiend, 1 beast and 2 varmints. Then we'll have the extra packs of 4 varmints, or extra beasts. Each support pack though will have a theme, so the Mothman will come with other bugs too. One new rule we'll have for varmints is they can add their attacks together in 1 stronger attack, since they're going to be kind of wimpy by themselves. So, if your varmint has a Melee Combat & strength of 2, if you get 2 of them in combat then they can combine and get +1 for each extra varmint that attacks, so with 2 you would end up with a MC & Str of 3.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 19:22:45


Post by: Kanluwen


That's an interesting way to do it.

Have you thought about having rules for different "Curses" over game boards?

Things like:
Native American Burial Grounds, Graveyard, etc.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 20:01:56


Post by: Alpharius


I'm glad you ditched the "Board Game" concept and went with a "true" tabletop war game instead - I'm WAY more excited about this now!


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 20:03:38


Post by: Kanluwen


 Alpharius wrote:
I'm glad you ditched the "Board Game" concept and went with a "true" tabletop war game instead - I'm WAY more excited about this now!

Agreed.

The Weird West expansion is what will probably get me to fork out some monies.

Not knocking the Wild West bit, but I'm all about the Weird <Insert Time Period Here> more than the semi-historical/steampunky bits.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 20:05:53


Post by: Alpharius


Exactly!

Dust Warfare's "board game" elements have kept we from jumping in there, and that's saying something as Weird War II is one of my favorite genres!

Weird Wild West looks to be a new favorite of mine though!


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/24 21:42:23


Post by: Necros


Yeah, I like the idea of a big boxed starter set moreso than a board game, but it just seemed like a board game would be the way to do it. Just want something that can make it easier for new people to get into the game. But I think what I'd like to do is just keep it a straight up skirmish game, and maybe in a couple years when it's more established we'll do the big hardback rulebook and then a 2-player starter, maybe something that can come with plastic figs and a small building kit or 2.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/11/25 02:15:21


Post by: thesilverback


Sounds interesting can't wait for starters to come out.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/05 17:35:32


Post by: Scorpio


I was won over by the second Kickstarter, and finding out the game is expanding to the weird west just makes it all the sweeter.

Would love to see a certain tall bearded vampire hunter from Hardin County, Kentucky.

(I'm not proud.)


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/06 01:49:55


Post by: Necros


Haven't seen the movie yet but, yes I'm sure that hunter will make it an appearance Vampires will come a little later. What I'm basically going to be doing is making each expansion be like a new faction for the game. So currently, it's all 1 big faction of humans. Next will be the Skinwalker "faction" made up of werebeasts and folklore monsters. Then we'll do the undead with vampires and zombie cowboys

The vampires will be the mean and vicious 30 days of night kind, not the snooty rich kid Anne Rice kind or the Emo Kid Twilight kind.

And each expansion will also have new human gangs based on the theme too.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/07 00:33:51


Post by: Scorpio


 Necros wrote:
The vampires will be the mean and vicious 30 days of night kind, not the snooty rich kid Anne Rice kind or the Emo Kid Twilight kind.


You're my hero.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/07 02:46:05


Post by: Kanluwen


I think having a few of the "snooty rich kid Anne Rice kind" wouldn't be horrible personally.

Different "bloodlines" could definitely come into play. A more feral bloodline that roams the wilderness, devouring entire towns like a plague...and a more "civilized" bloodline which is slowly but surely solidifying a power base in society at large?

I might be reading too much "Dresden Files" to be making suggestions though.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/07 04:03:51


Post by: Necros


Yeah, trying to put it together so that there's 4 different levels of things based on XP.

So at 100 XP you have the leader type. For skinwalkers that's the Alpha in the pack, undead would be the oldest vampire. 75xp is the professional level so that would be your standard werewolf or younger vamp. 50xp is a large wolf sized animal or a ghoul (running zombies). 25xp are critters or slow zombies.

For skinwalkers, they will have different abilities based on their animal aspect. Could do the same with vampires based on different bloodlines or whatever.. but I don't want to end up just ripping off White Wolf stuff. I also don't want it to turn into Wild West Underworld either, so there will be other new expansions/factions too .. Tommyknockers (goblins) from down in the mines, witches & evil spirits, and maybe star children (aliens) if I can pull that off without it getting too silly.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/07 04:14:09


Post by: Kanluwen


"Star Children" could definitely be interesting.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/18 13:16:58


Post by: Necros


Here's the first "green" from Wilde's Rangers, Private Ambler



edit .. oops, meant the post this in the news post :p


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/18 15:30:16


Post by: Kanluwen


You jerk! Making me think we had progress on the Weird West side!

I wonder if the Trickster could make an appearance in the Weird West side of things?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/18 16:54:00


Post by: Necros


I'm working on it Been real busy though.. I do most of my writing while I'm bored at work, but work has been too busy lately :( But I've been ironing out the skinwalker pack creation.. mostly the same as creating a gang though, just with critters added in and different skills to choose from.

Also thinking about adding a skill for humans to allow them to add a couple beasts or critters to their gangs as pets, and vise versa where Skinwalkers can add human henchmen (not professionals). Or, just make a couple of hired guns that would work for either side.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/18 17:19:40


Post by: Kanluwen


Let me know if I can help iron out general theme stuff and the like.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/18 17:35:56


Post by: Necros


sure, if you have any ideas feel free to share Right now all I really got is "You can make a gang of were-stuff & monsters"


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/18 19:13:23


Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin


Hmm, got a quick question. When you say expansion, do you mean this will be still classified as Blackwater Gulch, a different locale entirely or a variant (alternate reality) version of Blackwater Gulch?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/18 19:42:46


Post by: Necros


It's all taking place in and around the town of Blackwater Gulch. No alternate universe or anything. I was planning for it to take place in a neighboring town, but then I thought since the name of the game is Blackwater Gulch then it should all take place there. I hope to get an artist that can do some maps for the town itself and the surrounding area.

I imagine most monster-y things will be staying away from the town itself and mostly prey upon travelers and people who try to settle where they shouldn't. Most people in towns don't even know they exist, or think of them as legends & stories you tell to scare little kids. Monster Hunters are the only ones who really know it's all real, and most people just think they're nuts. Some of them are, but still.

Skinwalkers will be a whole separate faction/race for the game, and Humans being the other. For folks that want a more historical game they can just keep playing with human gangs as is. Even though there will be monsters and all, I still plan to keep the setting with a mostly historical feel. Like, not going over the top steampunk. Maybe a touch here and there with Engineer's gadgets but still trying to have it all feel semi-realistic.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/19 02:17:13


Post by: porkuslime


maybe instead of Blackwater Gulch you could use the same town layout but call it Aqua Noir...

As I think on it.. Aqua Noir might be a good name for the Wierd West ruleset...


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/20 15:17:35


Post by: Necros


I think there's a Noir something or other for Deadlands.. that kind of makes me think of like a 1930's mafia kind of setting though.

It's not so much a whole new ruleset, just adding on the rules for making a Skinwalker Pack and listing out some new skills & professions and monsters.

I was planning to call it Curse of the Skinwalker or Skinwalker's Curse.. but still trying to think of something better.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/29 19:09:43


Post by: GiraffeX


Hi Necros

Had a few thoughts about the Skinwalkers expansion, I started on the bonus characters for the existing gangs first.

Let me know if this is the sort of thing your after and I'll think up some for the other gangs and see what I can come up with for the Skinwalker gangs.

Bonus Figures

Flying Zarconis - Fortune Teller - Doom Spell (gives negative stats to a character for a turn
Wildes Rangers - Dances with Wolves - Wolf and ranger (two model pack)
Widow Makers - Amazonian - Changes into werecat (two model pack)
Bloodwolf Tribe - Indian Shaman - changes into Bear (two model pack)
Bandidos Mexicanos -
Clancy Gang -
Vigilance Commite -
Dockside Drifters -
Tranquillity Crew - Rivers - Goes into Frenzy when attacked shot at
The Secret Fist Clan - Tattooed Man (Dragon) - Summon the strength of the Dragon



The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/30 02:58:50


Post by: AllDeadDave


Interesting suggestions.

Perhaps for the remaining.

Bandidos Mexicanos - a Luchador whose crusade is to battle the forces of darkness
Clancy Gang - an escaped circus ape that the Clancy gang uses for muscle
Vigilance Commite - very tempted by the idea of an upstanding citizen with a dark past that transforms into a werebat to fight crime, for some reason.
Dockside Drifters - someone with an Innsmouth look and an alternative fishman form.

I would also love to see Jesse Hooker's gang from Near Dark in the vampire expansion (down the track).


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/30 09:45:36


Post by: GiraffeX


The Luchador for the Bandidos Mexicanos sounds good.

Glancy Gang - I think these are a hard one to come up with an idea for maybe a doctor turned rogue.

I'm not sure on the Batman for the Vigilance Commite, I don't think they would go down the were creature route more something like Zorro (with horse). Mounted and unmounted mini?

Dockside Drifters - I think a fisherman with a big net for capturing monsters.

I dont think all the gangs would have skinwalkers, I think they should be the exception rather than the norm.

Now to think up some ideas for the actual Skinwalker gangs or should that be packs

----------------------------------------------------------

Edit: some ideas on Skinwalker gangs for you.I think this is the best way to go with whats already present via the other sets by doing things in gangs and then adding additional content, for these you could add the big monsters as add on's.

Skinwalkers pack (Assuming 5 models, standard gang size)

Bat
Crocodile
Coyote
Crow
Snake

Based on Navajo superstition these are mutated human creatures (by their animal) that steal the skin off their victims.


Lycanthrope pack (assuming 6 models 3 human form and 3 werewolf form (Standing))

Cowboy versions of the below (pic taken from the Skinwalkers movie at the bottom of this post)


Outsiders (assuming 6 models 3 human form and 3 wolf form)

The would be the Wood cuter and drifter type folk who live outside of the town. They would be your native werewolves but transform to large wolves rather than werewolves. Thinking in terms of the latest Red Riding Hood film, you could have Red Riding Hood as the leader but she wouldnt transform (always good from a selling point).

Wendingos - (assuming 6 models 3 human form and 3 wendingo form)

Can only transform after eating a downed enemy. Folklore says they transform after they perform cannibalism.

----------------------------

Lycanthrope pack pic

[Thumb - werewolf.jpg]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/30 18:30:29


Post by: Necros


Some good ideas

The plan was that Skinwalkers will be their own race/faction and can't mix with humans. Skinwalkers will be able to have lots of different monsters though and will work much the same way as human gangs.. 1 Alpha (gang leader) will have a special skill that applies to his pack, but creatures from other packs can still join his.

But there will be some new skills for humans that allow them to have "pets", so they could have lower level creatures in the gang. And the same goes for Skinwalkers, they could have human henchmen with the right skill.

And then what I was thinking was each gang would get a 3-man support pack for the expansion.. some might have a beast pet, or even an animal like a normal wolf. but other packs might just be 3 humans but one of them will be one of the new professions, Monster Hunters or Engineers.

Also, I was thinking for the fluff, once a Skinwalker changes, they're stuck like that forever. Not like Underworld where they can change back and forth at will. So in this case if they had human henchmen, they would be like guys who were recently cursed but haven't turned yet. Maybe there could also be some half-turned, like they look more like the wolfman and not a full blown werewolf.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2012/12/30 19:04:01


Post by: GiraffeX


I had a slightly different idea for the gangs which may not have come across well in my post

When I say human that would be their before form so in a gang there would only really be three characters the before and transformed version (after) if you see what I mean.

I thought 3 were creatures would be about equal to five human.

I also agree that once turned they wouldn't be able to turn back.

I thought you could have characters summon some of the larger creatures or call them when in a transformed state to their aid.

I had some ideas for Monster Hunters and Engineers and other characters and vampire gangs and all sorts for the weird west expansion, I did a bit of brain storming today to see what I could come up with when I had nothing to do. If you want more ideas just let me know.

The pets idea sounds good you could have animal trainers etc, would make a nice booster pack.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/10 21:12:31


Post by: Kanluwen


Had a thought that I would post while I was thinking of it...

How about some Oriental mythology? The Chinese played a large part in the establishment of the railroads and it would be very "My Name is Bruce" to have a small band of Chinese guardian spirits and the like.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/10 21:52:42


Post by: Necros


Yeah I was thinking about doing monster summoning .. and yeah I was thinking of doing all kinds of different monsters, like Chinese themed too.

For the lore what I was thinking was, when you get bit and live, you turn into something based on whatever animal you have an affinity with. Most people end up being wolves maybe just because dogs are man's best friend.

But some people become other things, like a big tough wrassler guy might become a werewolf. If he happened to live in Alaska, he might look more like a polar bear than an american black bear. Or a cajun guy living in the bayou might become a werecroc. A dirty rotten scoundrel might be a weresnake. If you go to Gencon and don't shower for the entire weekend, then get bit, you could turn into a wereskunk.

So yeah, with all that in mind .. each type of animal will get a special skill just like human professions. Also I what I'm planning to do now is instead of weapons like humans, supernatural creatures can choose powers and special attacks, from level 1-6. Like a tail swipe attack, or venom spit, or they're strong enough to throw huge boulders at people, stuff like that But most special attacks will be melee oriented.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/10 22:28:50


Post by: Necros


Here's some quick text taken from the book.. still very WIP

Supernatural Creatures

In the core Blackwater Gulch game, every member of every gang is a human being. They may freely join up with other humans who may be affiliated with other gangs, even of those gangs might sometimes be enemies. They all belong to the Human race, and your gang may include any number of humans you wish.

Now, with Wrath of the Skinwalker, we introduce a whole new race to the game, and in most cases they cannot be mixed together. This new race is known simply as Supernatural.

Supernatural creatures are often found in remote areas of the world, far away from the prying eyes (and pitchforks) of human beings. These creatures band together into packs, often lead by the biggest and strongest of them all, known as an Alpha. An Alpha creature works the same way as a human Gang Leader, it has 100 XP along with attributes and skills to match. Supernatural packs also consist of Fiends, which have 75 XP and a special ability similar to a human Professional. Next are the beasts, who have 50 XP and function much the same way as human Henchmen. Lastly, Supernatural packs will often have many Varmints scurrying about, which are weaker creatures that have 25 XP.

You will create a pack of supernaturals much the same way as you would create a human gang, with the only difference being they do not have guns and other weapons the way a human would. Instead, many posess special attacks like a venomous bite, tail swipe or the ability to hurl large boulders.

When you create your pack, the first think you should do is select an Alpha as your leader and raise his attributes accordingly, give him his skills and special attacks. Next, select a few Fiends to provide some specialized creatures, followed by beasts and varmints. Like human gangs, half of your pack must be made up of Beasts and Varmints, not including the leader. Furthermore, for the purposes of gang creation, 2 varmints will count as 1 beast. Like human gangs, each pack must contain at least 5 models. For example, if your pack begins with an Alpha and 2 Fiends, you will need add 2 beats, or 4 varmints, or 1 beast and 2 varmints.


Skinwalkers

Skin-walkers are people that have been cursed to live part of their lives as animals. In the old world, this condition was known as Lycanthropy, with werewolves being the most common. In the new world, they are known to most Native American tribes Skinwalkers.

The Skinwalker curse is passed on to other humans by bite. Like a virus, anyone bitten by a Skinwalker and lives, becomes a Skinwalker himself. There are many native and religious rituals and talismans said to hold back the curse, for a time a least. If left untreated, the victim will often become a cannibalistic within a month's time, consumed by a hunger that only warm, living flesh can satisfy. The more he feeds on raw flesh and blood, the stronger he becomes, and the stronger the curse takes hold. Soon, he leaves all traces of his former human life behind as the beast takes hold, transforming him into a hybrid mockery of a man and his animal aspect. Once turned, there is no going back.

Every Skin-walker has an aspect - the type of animal they become. Bears, bats and wolves are the most common, but there is as much variety among skinwalkers as there are among any animal of the wild. Skin-walkers are humanoid and walk upright on two legs, though they resemble their aspect animal, along with hands and feet often turning into claws or talons.

In games, a Skin-walker gains an attribute bonus and a special ability that counts as a mandatory skill based upon their animal aspect. If their Intellect is high enough, they may learn additional skills as normal. Skin-walker's clawed hands are treated like two 1-handed melee weapons, and in addition many of them posess special attacks which work the same as a human would use a weapon.

Skin-walker Aspects:

Bear: +1 Strength
Crushing Blow - In melee combat, every roll of 6 to hit lowers the target's DP by 1.
An Alpha Bear gains the Knock Back attack for free, as he charges his enemies and sends them flying backward.

Crocodile: +1 Stamina
Thick Skinned - Thick lizard scales repel all but the strongest attacks. The Skin-walker gains +1 DP against any attacks of Str 4 or lower.
An Alpha Croc gains the Grapple attack for free, as he holds onto his prey and spins them around.

Wolf: +1 Intellect
Pack Hunter - When attacking in melee combat, a wolf gains +1 D6 to hit for each friendly within 2".
An Alpha Wolf gains the Jugular Bite attack for free, as he tries to rip the throat from his victims.

Hawk: +1 Strength, Flying
Bird of Prey - Hawks swoop down on their prey, if they enter melee combat after flying, they gain +1 MC for their first attack.
An Alpha Hawk gains the Blinding attack for free, as he pecks and claws at his opponent's eyes.

Bat: +1 Stamina, Flying
Radar Sense - A can always sense what's going on around him, and enemies never receive a bonus when attacking him from behind.
An Apha Bat gains the Deafening Screech attack for free, to disorients his oppoenents.

Moth: +1 Quickness, Flying
Cocoon - A moth can spin a cocoon around their enemies. A cocooned model is trapped in place and cannot move unless it breaks free on their activation, making a strength roll with a target # of 4.
An Alpha Moth gains the Dark Omen attack for free, spreading doom and despair to the enemies around him.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/10 23:50:51


Post by: guardpiper


You had me at Jackalopes. I might have look into this game now. Fear the bunnies!


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/11 15:54:48


Post by: Alpharius




Weird...


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/11 16:07:26


Post by: Necros


The Blackwater Gulch jackalope is different. as big as a medium sized dog.. Matted fur, long, sharp claws and pointy teeth. Leaping through the air, ripping heads off.. just like the dreaded flying bunny that could only be killed by the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/11 16:32:49


Post by: Alpharius




...only bigger!


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/11 19:08:48


Post by: Necros


Yep, but also with horns and nasty, big, pointy teeth


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/12 22:57:24


Post by: doc1234


Hmmm undead cowboys could be fun, maybe a preacher whos prayers really get answered? :O


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/13 19:21:33


Post by: Mississippi


I love all the suggestions. They sound great. The undead cowboys though I'd really like to see. Mostly because I already have several figure to use with them.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/13 19:45:03


Post by: solosam


I would like to see a gang of undead Mexicans dressed in a gaudy "Day of the Dead" style. I've seen a number of undead cowboys, such as the ones in Deadlands, but I've never seen figures that capture the fanciful Mexican theme. They could be carrying musical instruments and dancing, or decorated with flowers and elaborate clothing. The Mexican necro-saint "Santa Sebastiana" could be the gang leader or possibly a special character.

I think they would make models that are visually interesting and very unique, especially in contrast with the usual "shambling corpse" undead you see in other games (and I think it's very important to look for concepts that haven't been done before).

I'd like to knock out some concept art for what I have in mind, but I know most businesses don't accept unsolicited submissions, so I will await your permission.

http://www.artfulvagabond.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Catrinas.jpg
http://www.journeymexico.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/dia_de_los_muertos_lg.jpg
http://ambergrisdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/mexico-day-of-the-dead.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Sebastienne

- Solo Sam

cowboyminiatures.blogspot.com


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/13 21:40:34


Post by: Necros


Sure I'm all for audience participation If you have any ideas feel free to share em! I can't guarantee I'll use everything but I always love to see what other folks come up with.

but undead stuff will be a little ways off .. We're going to do the skinwalkers and other animal folklore beast kind of stuff. Then the undead zombies, ghouls and vamps will get their very own separate expansion afterwards and they'll be the 3rd separate race. I'd definitely like to do mexicany inspired stuff with them though.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/14 00:57:54


Post by: solosam


Cool. I drew this sketch this evening, to represent a festive "Day of the Dead" skeleton.

If this were a mini, I would totally buy it.


[Thumb - pic1.JPG]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/14 08:59:10


Post by: Mr_Barista


Kelly–Hopkinsville demons would fit very well.



The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/15 02:23:42


Post by: cybogoblin


I'm liking everything I've read so far. It will be nice to have another game I can use my AE-WWII Skinwalkers in, and I'm sure my wife will get a kick our of Samuel and Dean Manchester.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/15 19:48:28


Post by: weeble1000


I just finished writing up a beta version of a set of house rules and modified campaign rules for Blackwater Gulch to use in a weird west campaign.

I designed a wild west fantasy LARP called Exiles, and ran it in Ohio for about 5 or 6 years before I had to move. After reading the Blackwater Gulch rules it occurred to me that the system would serve as an excellent base for an Exiles miniatures campaign. As you are interested in adding weird west elements to Blackwater Gulch, I thought that you might be interested in my BWG house rules.

Bear in mind I haven't play tested any of this yet. This is just a preliminary version of the house rules. I added in rules to make things a bit more Exiles-ish, the foremost being player XP banks, tiered professions, heroic skills, and some rules for supernatural stuff.

The files can be viewed on my Google Drive Here

The campaign system is designed more like Warhammer Quest in that the players control characters that cooperate in scenarios played against enemy models controlled by a GM, in this case referred to as the Governor.

A lot of work still remains, including making price lists for new equipment, designing the tier professions, making stats for supernatural bad guys, and so forth. The standard professions are all completely mundane, of course, and you will note that I ditched Bounty Hunter and replaced it with a profession called Gentleman which is a critical component of an Exiles game.

The tier professions are typically more supernatural, and they will be based on simple conversions of Exiles tiered personas. BWG is just really handy for an Exiles-themed game . The tiered professions will include things like undead, steam-punk cyborgs, mad scientists, lycanthropes, crazed hillbillies, cultists, and so forth. The basic idea is that a tiered profession starts out just like any other profession (10 XP) and gains XP like a normal character, but has a combination of access to more powerful skills and/or starting stat bonuses and special abilities. Tiered professions do not advance beyond 100 XP, never become Gang Leaders, and do not gain Heroic Skills. The Heroic Skill system allows long-lived base profession characters to keep pace with more powerful tiered professions and provides an incentive to keep mundane characters active in the game.

For example, Skeleton will be a tier 1 profession. I have not formally written the Skeleton rules, but it would go something like this:

Starts with 10 XP
Gunslinger Profession Ability
Starting XP Attribute points must be put into Stamina
Stamia Attribute may not be greater than 3
+1 Ranged Combat
+1 Quickness
Always considered to be in Soft Cover
A Doctor's Revive ability will never bring a Skeleton beyond 1 HP
Special Ability: Harvest Bones - A Skeleton within 1 inch of a prone model may spend an action to regain 1 HP. Performing this action on a model that is not Good as Dead counts as a Coup de Gras.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/16 02:25:24


Post by: Necros


Good ideas all around.. I'll have to give some of it more thought


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/16 03:49:22


Post by: Mr_Barista


Looking forward to using Wyrd and Crunch-Waffle jackalopes and those dust-collecting werewolves from a dozen other games!


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/16 16:03:13


Post by: eldurand


And they make a very mean-looking jackalope for Malifaux as well. Several of their models would be able to be ported over to a Weird West genre...


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/18 21:30:44


Post by: Necros


Some new stuff

Changing the names around a bit ... The new faction/race is just called "Beasts" .. some are supernatural and some aren't. Were-things will be supernatural. Then we'll have Alpha beasts as "gang leaders", Monsters as Hired Guns, Fiends as Professionals, Familiars as Henchmen and Varmints.

Here's the skills for Beasts.. some are the same as humans, some are new. Also, since I'd like to add all new level 5 skills for humans, I guess I gotta come up with level 5 skills for beasts too so they all match. But, here's what I have so far...

Beasts earn special skills as their Attributes increase, the same way humans do. These are listed in brief on a model's Character Card and also detailed below. Like humans, a beast may have an amount of skills equal to or under its Intellect Attribute.

Strength Skills:
4: Bestial Strength - Your opponent must reroll one successful D6 from his saving throw in melee combat.
6: Trample - The beast may trample opponents if he runs or sprints, using the trampling rules as horses.

Quickness Skills:
4: Sprint - The beast may run incredibly fast over open ground. Instead of running normally, it may roll 2D6 and add them together for its running distance. The beast may not enter melee combat if it sprints, even if it is Supernatural.
6: Danger Sense - The model gains +1 Defense. This will already be added to the attribute on a model's Character Card.

Stamina Skills:
4: Thick Skinned - The model may reroll 1D6 from a failed saving throw.
6: Bestial Vigor - The model gains +1 Health. This will already be added to the attribute on a model's Character Card.

Intellect Skills:
4: Fearless - The beast gets -1 to its target number when making a morale roll.
6: Cunning - The beast may posess abilities 1 level higher than its RC or MC Attribute without a penalty. For example, a beast with a MC of 3 can use abilities as high as level 4.

Ranged Combat Skills:
4: Empowered - Ranged abilities may add +1D6 to range.
6: Weaponbeast - May use 2 ranged Abilities per turn, 2nd Ability at +1 to hit.

Melee Combat Skills:
4: Vicious - The beast may use 2 melee Abilities per turn, 2nd Ability at +1 to hit.
6: Frenzied - The beast may charge into melee combat, and attack after running or sprinting if it ends it's movement in an enemy's personal space. If the Beast is Supernatural, it will have no to hit penalty from running or sprinting.


Still working out the Abilities (weapons) for beasts. There will be 3-4 per level, Ranged abilities, melee abilities and general abilities that use other attributes for rolls.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/18 22:28:06


Post by: weeble1000


It is interesting. I like that it is mostly along the same lines as the existing system with just a few stylistic tweaks.

I think your general Abilities are going to make or break the Beasts rules, unless the "Profession" abilities add the bulk of your necessary character. For the most part I expect that the Abilities will match the str and such of the melee weapons and firearms, with flashier, more beast-like names. The General abilities are where you can really start to define what makes Beasts different from Gangs. I think, though, that it may serve well to limit Beasts in some way, so as to avoid giving them most of everything that Gangs have, plus cream on the top.

Gangs do not have a substitute for General Abilities. There's thrown weapons, weapons that cause Fire, and Explosive weapons. So if Beasts have General Abilities, either Gangs should have something comparable, if different, or the Beasts should be limited in some other way, such as by having weaker Str ranged weapons with shorter ranges or lacking Abilities that do the same sorts of special effects as Gang weapons.

Keeping Beasts as generic as Gangs allows you to go in the same direction as the core BWG rules, which is a broadly applicable set of rules and a bunch of model sets that suit your personal flavor of fluff. It also allows players the flexibility to design their own visions of Beasts, rather than having Skinwalkers be a thing by itself.

One thought could be to have a set of generic General Abilities that all Beasts have access to, but have specific sets of General Abilities replace the generic General Abilities. This could be a change, for example, depending on special Alphas and could be a substitute for an Alpha's normal Fiend ability.

So you could make a pack of wild west vampires, for example, and the Alpha vamp's character card says he has no Fiend ability, but Beasts in his pack may take the following General Attributes of levels 1-6. That could also help to push model sales and provide a platform from which to introduce new, fresh additional rules without having to reinvent the wheel with each boxed set of miniatures.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/19 00:27:30


Post by: Necros


Yeah the abilities are basically the same stats as the weapons. Like a tail swipe is basically just a bowie knife, giving you +1 str and parry.

General abilities are things that give weapon kind of bonuses, like rerolling a missed D6, getting an extra 1handed attack. And then other stuff like wings or burrowing. Abilities are basically just weapons for monsters A werewolf isn't going to run around with a repeater, but they can still get an attack that will let them add a D6 to their to hit roll.

But then there's also things like humans getting artillery, monsters won't have that at all. So they will also have some abilities that humans don't. There has to be something unique and cool and special about playing a beast gang, other than just the models. For humans I want the defining thing to be access to lots of guns, so they're the shootiest faction. Beasts are the big melee faction. Undead will be kinda a little bit of both.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/21 17:51:37


Post by: Necros


So here's what I'm planning for abilities so far

Many beasts posess special Abilities and powers that set them apart from mortal men. Like human weapons & equipment, Beast's abilities are ranked by level and choosing an ability will add XP to the Beast's total. For example, a Familair with one level 3 Ability will add have an XP of 78.

There are 3 types of abilities: Ranged Abilities, Melee Abilities and General Abilities. Ranged Abilities may only be used as a Ranged Combat attack and are treated as thrown attacks, using the Beast's strenth plus 1D6 to determine range. Melee Abilities apply to Melee Combat attacks. General Abilities are something a beast is always able to do, no roll is needed.

The Strength of each attack is based on the Beast's Strength attribute, and is modified by some abilities. Abilities that add to a beast's strength may not be combined. For example, a beast may not have a Powerful Strike and Rend & Tear, but it can have a Powerful Strike along with Venom Spit.

An Alpha may have 4 abilites, consisting 1 special ability for their animal form and 3 chosen below. A Monster may have up to 3 abilities, a Feind may have 2, a Familiar may have 1 and Varmints have none. Beasts may use only 1 combat or Alpha ability per turn, unless otherwise noted.

Melee Combat Abilities

1. Leaping Strike - Attack models 2" away.
2. Vicious Bite - +1 str, melee only
3. Ferocious Swipes - Add +1D6 to hit
4. Powerful Strike - +2 str, melee only
5. Slam - target knocked back D6". Treat as falling damage if it comes in contact with terrain or another model
6. Rend & Tear - +3 Str, melee only.

Ranged Combat Abilities:

1. Musk Spray - Target that fails to save will run 1D6" away from the Beast, but is otherwise unharmed and may be activated normally.
2. Venom Spit - +1 str, ranged only
3. Spine Shooter - Double str for range
4. Corrosive Spit - treat as flaming attack
5. Rock Toss - +2 str, ranged only
6. Explosive Spit - Treat as explosive attack

General Abilities:

1. Climbing - The beast may scale vertical surfaces such as walls and move up or down them following the same rules as going up or down a flight of stairs.
2. Tail Swipe - +1 DP in Melee Combat (parry)
3. Flying - This creature has wings and when moving it may choose to fly up to 9 spaces and ignores all terrain obstacles in it's path, however it may not end its movement inside a building. It the creature decides to walk, it may only move up to 6 spaces as normal and may then enter buildings. After flying, it my attack as normal.
4. Burrowing - This beast may burrow underground in it's movement phase, and it ends it's activation. On the next game turn, it may be activated and appear anywhere on the board, but must be at least 6" away from any enemy model or piece of terrain. Reapparing counts as the beast's movement for that turn, it may run, but not sprint.
5. Camoflauge - The Beast is able to disguise itself and blend in with its surroundings, granting it +1 DP from ranged attacks.
6. Progeny - The beast has bound a recently cursed Skinwalker to its will. You may add 1 Human Henchman to your pack for each Beast with the Progeny ability.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/21 20:55:22


Post by: weeble1000


The rules are interesting, but I note that Beasts have access to Abilities that cause both Flame and Explosive attacks.

It seems that what distinguishes Beasts is a distinct lack of range. My question would be how well this lack of range balances against the Beasts' ability to move swiftly and more efficiently, which appears to be the basis of the General abilities.

In other words, the Beasts seem to possess abilities that help them to counteract their inherent disadvantage vis a vis human gangs (sprinting, ignoring terrain, removing themselves as a target, +1 ranged DP). Is it a nice, balanced wash, or are beasts going to be all up in your grill before you can get a good shot off? The question is not rhetorical. I am curious what you have seen in play testing.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/21 21:08:12


Post by: cybogoblin


 Necros wrote:
2. Vicious Bite - +1 str, melee only
5. Slam - target knocked back D6". Treat as falling damage if it comes in contact with terrain or another model
4. Burrowing - This beast may burrow underground in it's movement phase, and it ends it's activation. On the next game turn, it may be activated and appear anywhere on the board, but must be at least 6" away from any enemy model or piece of terrain. Reapparing counts as the beast's movement for that turn, it may run, but not sprint.


Anyone interested in a Graboid faction?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/01/21 21:21:56


Post by: Necros


Actually haven't tested anything yet, still getting it all down on paper. Humans have guns and have a range advantage, beasts aren't meant to be shooty, so they wanna get in your face faster. Kinda like tyranids

 cybogoblin wrote:
 Necros wrote:
2. Vicious Bite - +1 str, melee only
5. Slam - target knocked back D6". Treat as falling damage if it comes in contact with terrain or another model
4. Burrowing - This beast may burrow underground in it's movement phase, and it ends it's activation. On the next game turn, it may be activated and appear anywhere on the board, but must be at least 6" away from any enemy model or piece of terrain. Reapparing counts as the beast's movement for that turn, it may run, but not sprint.


Anyone interested in a Graboid faction?


No Comment


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/02 18:11:30


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I am really excited about this set of expansions and models, but one thing bothers me:



 Necros wrote:
Yeah, Mothman might be a little more modern, but we'll give him a western spin. I wanted to do some kind of were-insect and figured that would be a good one.


Mothman, the "cryptid", is not in any way insectoid! I would love to buy a Mothman model based on the creature, but an insectoid mothman would not look right.

Still, the Jersey Devil is pure gold. Any chance of a Flatwoods Monster or Kentucky Goblins?


And graboids? Yes-yes-yes-yes-yes![/Nicholas Cage]



The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/02 19:34:42


Post by: Necros


Yeah I was thinking that too about the mothman.. wasn't sure how to handle it.. I want to do some kind of were-insect, just seemed like that would be a good way to go because of the folklore and stuff. Could also do something more based on a locust? Want to go for something kind of like a more man-looking tyranid, as in segmented shell/carapace instead of skin.. or like Aliens, without the wiener head?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/03 00:17:08


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


There's the Brundlefly, from The Fly. You can make a model that looks like him (he could even be an homage character in the next Kickstarter--Dr. Brundle Goldblum?) to get that human-insect combination. Maybe he could be some sort of skinwalker or a mad scientist?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/03 00:22:11


Post by: Necros


And suddenly, a bonus figure is born!


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/03 04:13:51


Post by: cybogoblin


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Maybe he could be some sort of skinwalker or a mad scientist?


Maybe a scientist who was cursed by a tribal shaman after he exprimented on his people?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/03 08:41:06


Post by: Mr_Barista


A scientist looking for 'The Coming Thing' Prof. John Wickwire, he is a sometime associate of bounty hunter Julius Bowler and US Marshall Brisco Campbell?






The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/03 10:56:18


Post by: cybogoblin


 Mr_Barista wrote:
A scientist looking for 'The Coming Thing' Prof. John Wickwire, he is a sometime associate of bounty hunter Julius Bowler and US Marshall Brisco Campbell?


I'd like to pledge my money for these now. Seriously.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/03 22:34:50


Post by: Necros


Well, we were already going to have Ashford Campbell the monster hunter, but he could have a brother brisco.. with the same chin.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/04 16:01:17


Post by: Necros


Some new tweaks .. planning to have 4 main types of Skinwalkers in the main expansion. So, initially we'll have wolves, bears, birds and moth/insects. Werecrocs and Werebats will be a part of the following expansion, crocs living out in the swampy bayou and bats playing off of the bram stroker's dracula bat looking thing for the vampire theme. I think werebug sounds kinda silly, so I'll have to think up another name.. but here's what I have now

Wolf

The most common Skinwalker animal aspect, Werewolves are intelligent and cunning hunters. Tall, strong and vicious pack hunters, they often work together to bring down a foe. If you see only one Werewolf, chances are a whole pack is watching you from the shadows.

Werewolves have +1 Intellect, already added to their Attributes. Werewolves often hunt in packs, thus when attacking in melee combat, a werewolf gains +1 D6 to hit for each friendly model in its personal space.

An Alpha Werewolf also possesses the Throat Ripper Ability - this special attack gains +1D6 to hit and +1 Strengh. Targets taken out of action from this attack cannot be healed.

Bear

Incredibly territorial hunters, Werebears are renowned for their strength and ferocity. Their imposing size and thick hide make them a formidable foe, and have been known to crush their victims into a bloody pulp with power claw-like fists.

Werebears have +1 Strength, already added to their Attributes. They use their massive size and power to deliver crushing blows to their enemies, thus in melee combat, every roll of 6 to hit lowers the target's DP by 1.

An Alpha Werebear has the Bear Hug Ability - in melee combat, when his target makes a saving throw, each unsaved D6 will remove 1HP, instead of just losing 1 HP per attack. For example, if the Alpha Werebear rolled 3 successful hits, and his opponent only managed to save 1, he will lose 2 HP from the attack.

Birds

Dwelling in treetops and mountains, Werehawks often lead a solitary and independent existance, often living alone or in small packs. Though not capable of true flight like a normal bird, they are able to jump and glide, often attacking from above with talloned fingers that slash and tear their prey to bits.

Werebirds have +1 Stamina, already added to their Attributes. They swoop down on their prey, and if they enter melee combat after flying, they gain +1 MC for their first attack.

An Alpha Werebird has the Eye Gouge Ability - in melee combat he will attempt to slash or peck out the eyes of his prey. If a target is wounded from the attack but not out of action, it will lose 1 point of RC for the remainder of the game.

Insects

Portents of doom and chaos, a Werebugs bring death and despair wherever they go. Their thick, chitinous hide protects them from weaker blows, while their spiked, clawed hands can rip flesh from bones with ease.

Werebugs have +1 Quickness, already added to their Attributes. A Werebug is able to capture his victims in a cocoon, trapping in place. A cocooned target move or attack unless it breaks free on its activation, making a strength roll with a target # of 4.

An Alpha Werebug has the Dark Omen Ability - He is counted as 2 models for the purposes of outnumbering in morale and melee combat. Additionally, no human Gamblers or Gang Leaders may use lucky dice to an attack or save against an Alpha Weremoth.

* Though birds and bugs, may have wings, they cannot use them to fly unless they purchase the Flying Ability.


Also thinking about a puma or mountain lion werebeast.

Also planning out the miniatures for each set. Right now the Werewolf set will come with a werewolf alpha, and 2 lesser werewolves.. possibly have one look more like a coyote. And then a chupacabra and jackalope. Jackalopes will be bigger, dog sized critters.. imagining a mostly bald rabit shaped thing, with big horns and nasty pointed teeth, not a cut bunny with antlers So they will be henchmen level creatures.. I decided to keep things simple and remove the 25xp Varmints.

I basically want to have each starter set be 3 of the same werebeast, followed by 2 different familiars. Familiars can also be henchmen though if the something has the ability, so in that case they could be a recently turned person or something like that. And human gangs will be able to take animal familiars in place of a henchman too.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/04 18:41:18


Post by: solosam


 Necros wrote:

Jackalopes will be bigger, dog sized critters.. imagining a mostly bald rabit shaped thing, with big horns and nasty pointed teeth, not a cut bunny with antlers So they will be henchmen level creatures..


Google "Shope papilloma virus." Some of those rabbits have giant, jagged bone spikes shooting out of their faces in all directions. It's quite disturbing.

-Solo Sam


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/05 08:21:13


Post by: cybogoblin


 Necros wrote:
...bats playing off of the bram stroker's dracula bat looking thing for the vampire theme.


As long as there's a vampire priestess wearing a large white snake around her neck, I'm sold.

I think werebug sounds kinda silly, so I'll have to think up another name.. but here's what I have now


You could go with entothrope (like lycanthrope).


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/07 04:46:45


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Have you made any homage minis for the characters from Knights of Cydonia?

'Cause I would totally buy some.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/07 17:08:33


Post by: Necros


At first I was thinking it would be best to have Skinwalkers be always in animal form forever, once you get the curse you're screwed. But lately I've been wondering if it might be better to allow models to turn into their were-animal whenever they want, Underworld style?

So, before, a skinwalker would just get a generic character card where they all use the same card and have the same stats, every werewolf is the same. But this would personalize things more .. Now a werewolf character would have a regular character model like any other cowboy in the game, then when you activate the model in the game you decide to turn into the wolf for your action instead of shooting or whatever, and swap the cowboy fig for the werewolf mini.

Then, instead of being like a separate faction, you could build any character to be able to become a were-something, basically adding XP cost the same way you would choose a weapon, and different animals grant a bonus skill in animal form, with a couple of attribute buffs. I'm thinking it would just be like +10 points. So a werewolf would get something like +1 MC & +1 Quickness and the Pack Hunter skill in wolf form.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Would it make things too complex or slow the game down with the extra math?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/07 17:27:19


Post by: cybogoblin


I think that could be a workable option. And you could always play with just the were-form if you wanted to keep things simple.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/07 18:15:02


Post by: Necros


Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Only thing is it would mean the Skinwalker starter set would have more models .. and cost more. It would be 8 models vs the usual 5. So in a werewolf starter set you'd have 3 werewolf characters, a chupacabra and jackalope. But then we could do support packs for other animal forms, still just 3 models. So you'd have a werebear + human form, and then 1 familiar, instead of 1 professional and 2 henchmen like normal humans.

There would still be supernatural familiars and regular ones. So only a supernatural gang leader could have supernatural familiars, but a normal gang leader could have mundane things like wolves or whatever. Same deal with monsters vs hired guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One other thing though.. would it be better to have something like a werewolf starter set come with werewolves & critters? Or werewolves and human henchmen, fluffed up as folks who were recently tuned but can't transform yet?

Then we could sell the critters separately.. like a pack of 2 or 3 chupacabras, jackalopes, tremorworms, etc? They'd be a little wimpier than your average henchman, but you add them as a whole pack at once for 100xp the same way a human gang would add a hired gun.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/07 20:48:21


Post by: solosam


Then, instead of being like a separate faction, you could build any character to be able to become a were-something,


Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.



-Solo Sam


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/07 23:23:33


Post by: cybogoblin


 Necros wrote:
Only thing is it would mean the Skinwalker starter set would have more models .. and cost more. It would be 8 models vs the usual 5.


Personally, I don't have a problem with that, but it might be worth putting up a poll to see what people think.

But then we could do support packs for other animal forms, still just 3 models. So you'd have a werebear + human form, and then 1 familiar, instead of 1 professional and 2 henchmen like normal humans.


That sounds great.

...but a normal gang leader could have mundane things like wolves or whatever.


That is something I would like to see in the non-weird version of the game. A Native American leader accompanied by a wolf or coyote would be very fun.

One other thing though.. would it be better to have something like a werewolf starter set come with werewolves & critters? Or werewolves and human henchmen, fluffed up as folks who were recently tuned but can't transform yet?


If critters are interchangeable between the different were-factions, it would be a good idea to keep them separate from the starters. The Hired Gun route seems to be the way to go here. That would allow the starter sets to either come with less models, or fill in the empty spaces with additional henchmen.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/08 15:35:01


Post by: Necros


OK, new update for the Skinwalker rules. Also removed Werebugs and replaced with Werecats. We'll get to the bugs eventually but since each animal form is essentially a new profession, and we're also adding Monster Hunters an Engineers, I wanted to keep it to 4 animal types for now. Can always add more later

Special Rules

Transformation - A Skinwalker may begin the game as a man or beast. He may change forms at will, as long as the animal is not consumed with Bloodlust, but this is a painful often time consuming process. Thus, to transform, a Skinwalker must give up his activation for the transformation to take hold, and then he may act as normal in the following game turn. All Skinwalkers gain +1 MC when they transform into their animal aspect.

Bloodlust - If a Skinwalker takes an enemy out of action in melee combat while in animal form, it will be overcome with Bloodlust and unable to transform back to his human form for the rest of the game.

Feral Attacks - In animal form, a Skinwalker's clawed hands are treated like two 1-handed melee weapons (meaning they may attack twice per activation), and in addition many of them possess special abilities which work the same as a human would use a weapon. A Skinwalker may not use human weapons in animal form, just tooth and claw, but many posess special attacks and abilities.

Supernatural - Supernatural creatures have special abilities and talents that normal animals do not possess. They have been cursed by dark forces, or simply walk closer to the spirit world than morals. All Supernatural creatures are immortal, they will never age or die of natural causes, but can be killed in a variety of ways. All Supernatural creatures are faster than mortal creatures and thus are always able to attack after running, with a +1 to their target number to hit, exactly like the human Run & Gun skill.

Animal Aspects - The types of Skinwalker animal aspects is as varied as the animal world itself. There are wolves, bears, birds, cats, bats, rats, bugs, lizards, and many more. Each animal aspect will grant attribute bonuses and special skills that a Skinwalker may use while in animal form. Essentially, a Skinwalker's animal aspect is treated like a character's profession in game terms.

Werewolves

The most common Skinwalker animal aspect, Werewolves are intelligent and cunning hunters. Tall, strong and vicious pack hunters, they often work together to bring down a foe. If you see only one Werewolf, chances are a whole pack is watching you from the shadows.

Werewolves gain +1 to Intellect, already added to their Character Card. Werewolves gain the Pack Hunter ability - when attacking in melee combat, a werewolf gains +1 D6 to hit for each friendly model in their personal space.

An Alpha Werewolf also possesses the Throat Ripper Ability - this is a special attack that gains +1D6 to hit and +1 Strengh. Targets taken out of action from this attack cannot be healed.

Wearbears

Incredibly territorial hunters, Werebears are renowned for their strength and ferocity. Their imposing size makes them a formidable foe, and have they been known to crush their victims into a bloody pulp with powerful bear-claw fists.

Werebears gain +1 Strength, already added to their Character Card. Werebears gain the Pummeling ability - in melee combat, every roll of 6 to hit lowers the target's DP by 1.

An Alpha Werebear also has the Bear Hug Ability - in melee combat, when his target makes a saving throw, each unsaved D6 will remove 1HP, instead of just losing 1 HP per attack. For example, if the Alpha Werebear rolled 3 successful hits, and his opponent only managed to save 1, he will lose 2 HP from the attack.

Werebirds

Often dwelling in treetops and mountains, Werebirds often lead a solitary and independent existance, often living alone or in small packs. Though not capable of true flight like a normal bird, they are able to jump and glide, often attacking from above with talloned fingers that slash and tear their prey to bits.

Werebirds gain +1 Stamina, already added to their Character Card. They have the Swoop ability - if they enter melee combat after flying, they gain +1 MC for their first attack.

An Alpha Werebird has the Eye Gouge ability - in melee combat he will attempt to slash or peck out the eyes of his prey. If a target is wounded from the attack but not out of action, it will lose 1 point of RC for the remainder of the game.

* Though werebirds may have wings, they cannot use them to fly unless they purchase the Flying Ability.

Werecats

One of the most cunning predators, werecats are known to stalk and ambush their victims often using bating tactics or trickery. They often inhabit mountainous areas, with razor-sharp retractible claws that help them to climb or slash with ease.

Werecats have +1 Quickness, already added to their Character Card. Werecats have the Sure Footed ability - They always land on their feet and may jump or fall any distance without being hurt. Additionally, they may also climb vertical walls, trees or rocks as if they are stairs.

An Alpha Werecat has the 9 Lives ability - If taken out of action, a werecat may immediately roll to heal itself, the same way a doctor would heal a fallen gang member. If successful, the cat will stand back up immediately. If the Alpha Werecat is taken out again, its target number to heal goes up by 1. If a healing roll is ever failed, it will stay down for the remainder of the game.

Beast Packs

You may choose an Alpha Skinwalker as your Gang Leader, and if an Alpha leads your gang is considered a Beast Pack. Like a human, the Alpha has a base of 100 XP along with attributes and skills to match. In his human form, he may have weapons just like any other human, and he will have 2 Supernatural Abilities that may only be used in animal form. An Alpha is also able to transform faster, his transformation process will replace his movement, allowing him to run or attack or perform any other action afterwards, in the same activation. Assitionally, if an Alpha is your leader, all other Skinwalkers in the Beast Pack will benefit from faster transformation as well.

Your Beast Packs also consist of other Skinwalkers, which have a base of 75 XP and a special skill based on their animal form, similar to human Professional skills, and they may use weapons and Supernatural Abilities just like your Alpha. A Skinwalker may have 1 Supernatural Ability.

The remainder of your gang will be made up of human henchmen. These are men and women who have recently been turned, and have joined the pack for protection and guideace. They have no Animal Affinity and are not Supernatural (yet).

Skinwalkers and Alpha Skinwalkers may join a human gang, they are treated just like a human Hired Gun, meaning you must have at least 5 models in your gang before you may add 1 any Skinwalker. Just as Skinwalkers can fight with humans, human Professionals and Gang Leaders may also join a beast pack and are also considered Hired Guns.

Monsters

There are many other strange and terrible monsters living out in the wilds, such as the Sasquach or Hodag. They may join Beast Packs to fight for food, or just for the thrill of the hunt. These are strong creatures, and like human Hired Guns, have a base of 100 XP, and you may have 1 Monster in your Pack for every 5 models. Also, like humans, a second Alpha Skinwalker can be counted as a Monster, however you must designate which Alpha will actually be leading your Beast Pack and be sure your opponent is aware. Monsters will only follow a Skinwalker Alpha, never a human gang leader.

Critters

There are also many small creatures that may join a Beast Pack, such as the Chupacabra or Cactus Cat. Though most are solitary, nocturnal hunters, the call of an Apha Beast is difficut for any wild or supernatural creature to ignore. Critters have a base of 50 XP and are considered henchmen for the purposes of gang and pack creation.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/09 04:40:05


Post by: solosam


A couple of thoughts:

1) I really like the idea of having the shape-changing power being something that can be added to an existing gang or character, rather than being a faction all its own.

2) Werebear: Reduces target's DP by 1 for how long? A turn, or the whole game? (Sorry, I know the draft is still pretty early to be nitpicking and proofreading)

3) I also like the notion of taking a turn to change. From a strategic perspective, the shape-changing power basically gives a human the ability to switch between melee and shooting "modes." I can see where it would make the game more interesting for a player to have to choose the right time to stop (or hide) and switch "modes" depending on what the situation requires.

4) You've mentioned before that you intend the humans to be shooty and the monsters to be melee-focused. Do you prefer a game where each gang can have a balanced set of characters (for example, one shooty guy, one melee monster, one utilitarian guy)? Or are you going to try to keep some seperation between the factions? (As in, monsters only hang out with other monsters and can never really achieve a shooty team?) Can any random group of humans buy a jackalope or hire a Sasquatch? (I can see advantages both ways)

5) Do Skinwalkers hang out in mixed groups? For example, could I put both Werewolves and Werecats in the same gang? What are the implications for running a single-species gang with basically identical powers vs. a mixed gang that has more variety?

6) Can the Alpha Werecat be a Smilodon? That would be cool.

-Solo Sam


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/09 07:38:38


Post by: cybogoblin


solosam wrote:
6) Can the Alpha Werecat be a Smilodon? That would be cool.


I was thinking more werepumas from Central America.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/09 10:15:57


Post by: porkuslime


 Necros wrote:
Well, we were already going to have Ashford Campbell the monster hunter, but he could have a brother brisco.. with the same chin.


I would totally purchase a Brother Blister.. package em togeather.. you know you want to do eeeet.

-P


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/09 18:08:27


Post by: Necros


I figured it would be better to just treat a skinwalker like another profession, so Wilt Clancy won't turn into a weresnake one day, but there could be a weresomething fighting with the Clancy Gang one day.

There werebear's -DP is just for that attack.. so he attacks someone and then when they go to make their save they have -1DP, but if the target lives and someone shoots at him next, then he'll be back at his normal DP for that other attack.

And yeah the idea was you could have a shooty mode and a melee mode, but with the penalty that it takes a full turn to change between the two (except for Alphas) and also there's no Bounty Hunter or Gunslinger skinwalkers, you're basically just like a henchman with more xp when you're not in were-mode.

I definitely would like to see gangs with a lot of variety. There's no real reason not to mix werewolves and werecats, other than theme or fluff. One thing I was thinking though is maybe kind of like how human leaders share a skill with the rest of their gang, maybe an Alpha can share a stat bonus with others of his type. That's how I was going to handle the MC bonus at first, so a werewolf alpha would give +1 MC to all other werewolves, but not werebears. I figured it would be more fitting though if all skinwalkers got a MC bonus.

I was thinking the cats would be like pumas and mountain lions, but the alpha would be like a sabertooth just to make em look cool.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/09 23:14:47


Post by: solosam


 Necros wrote:
I figured it would be better to just treat a skinwalker like another profession, so Wilt Clancy won't turn into a weresnake one day, but there could be a weresomething fighting with the Clancy Gang one day.

There werebear's -DP is just for that attack.. so he attacks someone and then when they go to make their save they have -1DP, but if the target lives and someone shoots at him next, then he'll be back at his normal DP for that other attack.

And yeah the idea was you could have a shooty mode and a melee mode, but with the penalty that it takes a full turn to change between the two (except for Alphas) and also there's no Bounty Hunter or Gunslinger skinwalkers, you're basically just like a henchman with more xp when you're not in were-mode.


I understand now. I was scratching my head at the thought of someone getting their Skinwalker abilities layered on top of their Leader or Professional abilities. It would be like when d20 came out an people joked about making Half-Dragon Vampire Were-badger Minotaur Barbarians. I still like the idea of letting an existing character acquire Skinwalker powers, but the more I think about it the more I realize it would make book keeping a nightmare and unbalance the characters.


I definitely would like to see gangs with a lot of variety. There's no real reason not to mix werewolves and werecats, other than theme or fluff. One thing I was thinking though is maybe kind of like how human leaders share a skill with the rest of their gang, maybe an Alpha can share a stat bonus with others of his type. That's how I was going to handle the MC bonus at first, so a werewolf alpha would give +1 MC to all other werewolves, but not werebears. I figured it would be more fitting though if all skinwalkers got a MC bonus.


My biggest concern was that keeping the entire gang limited to a single species would be kind of bland because they would all have the same power and be effectively locked into a single strategy.

I was thinking the cats would be like pumas and mountain lions, but the alpha would be like a sabertooth just to make em look cool.


Rock.

I am excited now.





The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/10 15:44:42


Post by: solosam


FWIW, I think forbidding the Skinwalkers from using human weapons would remove the opportunities for some really cool minis. I'd love to see a Were-Bear with an axe in each hand, or a cat wielding a sword, or even an owl with a bow:


[Thumb - Untitled.jpg]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/10 16:20:35


Post by: solosam


Or Halle Berry as Bobcatwoman:

[Thumb - thCAYMLFPI.jpg]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/11 14:11:16


Post by: Necros


It could be cool but I don't know if I want to give Skinwalkers weapons.. I wanted them to be more savagey, kinda like the lycans in Underworld. But we could probably have Alphas that carry around a big totemy staff kind of thing, more for looks than to use as a weapon. The special combat abilities are skinwalker weapons.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/12 16:14:22


Post by: Necros


So, I'm reworking the campaign rules now, to include them in the expansion and have Skinwalkers added there too so they can earn XP, etc. I want gangs to be a little different and more powerful for campaigns since you'll be making everyone from scratch and not using pre-made characters.

First thing I'm thinking of doing is removing henchmen. Everyone can have a profession, but you don't get your profession skills until your base XP is past henchman levels (51+)? But the max XP for everyone is still 75, except the leader can go to 100. For skinwalkers, I figured they would gain XP as normal, you would just pick your animal the way you would pick your profession, but can't transform until you get to 51xp. Basically everyone is a henchman until they get their XP over 50. Or maybe make the limit 25 or 30 instead of 50, so it doesn't take forever for some to get there?

Hired guns would pretty much be removed as they're pre-made characters, but you can use the models to make a normal gang member. This is so that there's no gangs full of people in the 20's, hiring someone that's 100 XP throwing the balance way off.

You can also add monsters to your beast pack, they would also just start as 0 XP and don't get their special monster skills till 50xp, just like everyone else. But a monster will max at their standard XP on their card.. so a Sasquach is a big monster that can go to 100xp, but a chupacabra can only go up to 50.

For earning XP, going to change that to an XP pool that the whole gang earns.. so if 3 guys get 1 kill each, that's 3 XP for the pool. Then you can distribute XP however you want among the gang. This is mostly so that if a character is maxed, the XP he earns won't get wasted and he can use it to teach others. Experienced gangs can powerlevel their noobs

And another idea I had.. I guess this would have to be optional based on if you had the models.. but, if you're taken out of action by a skinwalker and you don't die there's a chance you'll become one. Maybe a stamina roll to resist it? Then you can pick the animal form you want to take and will lose your profession.

So that's where I'm at now. Any thoughts?


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/12 20:10:08


Post by: Kanluwen


 Necros wrote:
It could be cool but I don't know if I want to give Skinwalkers weapons.. I wanted them to be more savagey, kinda like the lycans in Underworld. But we could probably have Alphas that carry around a big totemy staff kind of thing, more for looks than to use as a weapon. The special combat abilities are skinwalker weapons.

I think that Skinwalkers carrying weapons could actually work to an extent.

Not to shanghai your vision or your game here Necros, but I think that having the more "intelligent" animals like Owls, Wolves, and Foxes as having access to the kind of traditional Native American weaponry could be one way to do it.

Imagine Wereowls/Werehawks with bows, Werewolves with tomahawks, and Werefoxes(is that even a term? I dunno...) with knives.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/12 21:32:11


Post by: Necros


Yeah I was actually thinking about that more.. was thinking Primative Weapons would be a general ability you can choose, so if have that, you can pick from a new list of weapons.

So far I'm thinking it'll be spears, tomahawks, totem-staffs, blowpipes, slings and bows. And people would have access to those weapons too.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/15 18:00:02


Post by: Necros


So I'm backtracking now.. I did some play-against-myself tests the last couple of nights and the whole changing into a werewolf and back again seems off.. like it's just adding extra rules that could slow down the game. I'm starting to think now it might be better from a gameplay perspective to just have were-things always be were-things and revert back to just being an all beast faction vs humans.. no werewolves in human gangs, no humans in werewolf packs normally.. but bring back the old skill I had going where humans could have beasts & animals as pets/henchman, and Skinwalkers can have human henchman. You can have 1 for each normal member of your gang that has the skill, or 2 if the Alpha or Gang Leader has the skill.

So this would also mean the Skinwalker starter sets would have 5 models and not need extra figures for human forms, and thus be probably the same price as the human gang sets.

Then as we go on to other expansions, the vamps/undead would get their own whole faction, and Tommyknockers would get their own faction of gobliny underground type things. I'm just thinking it will make gameplay more streamlined and straight forward this way.

What do you guys think?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and, we can probably still do the primitive weapons for skinwalkers, I just meant no changing back and forth mid-game.. here's what I have for new weapons so far

Bolas - Level 1
Str: M
Thrown, Primitive
If target fails saving throw they will be unharmed, but unable to move or run on their next activation.

Bow - Level *
Str - M - Short Range: Mx2 - Long Range: Mx4
Primitive
A bow's range is determined by the users Strength, multipled by 2 for short range and 4 for long range. For example, at Str 3 your short range will be 6" and long range will be 12"
* As the Strength of the user can change the weapon's stats, the level for a Bow will be the same as the user's Strength Attribute.

LeMatt Pistol - Level 3
Str 3 - Short Range: 8" - Long Range: 15"
Repeater, Pistol

Smithfield Rotating Rifle - Level 4
Str 4 - Short Range: 5" - Long Range: 9"
Shotgun, Repeater, Complex

Lloyd Arms Repeating Long Range Rifle - Level 5
Str 4 - Short Range: 18" - Long Range: 30"
Longarm, Repeater, Complex

Hand Cannon - Level 6
Str 4 - Short Range: 8" - Long Rang: 15"
Shotgun, Explosive, Complex


Complex Weapons - Engineers tend to design overly complicated weapons and devices that only they know how to use properly. If a weapon is listed as Complex, it may only be fired normally by Enginners. Other professions may use them, but they will have a -1 RC or MC modifier depending on the type of weapon, and all dice need to roll a 6 to hit.

Primitive Weapons - These are more simple or traditional weapons, used by natives and Skinwalkers alike.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/02/16 04:02:21


Post by: solosam


SImpler is always better.

- Solo Sam


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/03/31 02:43:16


Post by: solosam


I was goofing around with photoshop today. I wanted to make a character who was a cross between Liam Neeson in "The Grey" and Wolverine. I figure he could be a professional werewolf hunter. I would totally buy this if it were a mini.

-Solo Sam

[Thumb - Untitled.jpg]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/03/31 20:52:53


Post by: RiTides


I don't know if this is a bit of the elephant in the room, but is it worth doing a weird west expansion with WWX kickstarted and coming later this year?

It seems like it might be better to stick to a pure wild west theme, instead, to differentiate a bit from that juggernaut... which is almost completely weird west.

If it were me, I feel like it might even be worth making a thread in here / stickying it addressing that issue. Heck, maybe people who pledged for WWX figures will even want to try out BWG! But I feel like it needs to be addressed somewhere (apologies if it is and I've missed it ) as that will be a question on people's minds looking at this game (how does it compare to WWX, why should they get into this game instead of that one?).

Personally, I think BWG actually appeals to me more, but that's because it's more realistic and less "silly". A gritty weird west feel might be able to keep that, but mostly I think it would "muddy the waters" and take away the rather stark differences that currently exist between BWG and WWX, which could make people want to pick up BWG instead.

Apologies if this is somewhat off-topic in this thread, but I think the weird west theme means that question is going to be asked, and better to do so now and have a good answer for it rather than later, especially if it affects what direction you take the game in with expansions, etc.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/03/31 20:58:32


Post by: solosam


I don't agree. WWX, from what I've seen, comes in a disproportionately large scale and is more like a Deadlands-Meets-40k kind of game. I believe that they are sufficiently different that one will not detract from the other. As you pointed out, they might actually be complimentary. I could see myself buying some WWX minis (like their werewolf Indian leader) for use in my BWG gaming.

Although I can only speak for myself, if BWG's were-creatures are half as good as their other minis, I plan on dropping a lot of money on this one.

-Solo Sam


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/01 03:54:00


Post by: Necros


To me, WWX really isn't all that similar. Not really my cup of tea, some of the models are nice but it feels more like a sci fi game than a western to me. I'm going for more of a "what if all those folklore critters were real" kind of thing. The one I'm more worried about "coying" would be Deadlands, which I'm actually not all that familiar with. So I'm just taking some folklore stories and giving it my own spin and we'll take it from there

At the end of the day, if people buy WWX models to play BWG, or vise versa, then everyone wins


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/01 04:12:22


Post by: cybogoblin


Yeah, I'd much rather see BWG go ahead with its own take on the weird west. If anything this take sounds more like Going Native: Warpath than WWX or Deadlands.

Plus, it's easy to play a 'normal' wild west game with BSG. I don't know if the same is true with WWX.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/01 11:36:15


Post by: RiTides


 cybogoblin wrote:
Plus, it's easy to play a 'normal' wild west game with BSG. I don't know if the same is true with WWX.

That part is Definitely true

As long as there is enough to distinguish BWG's weird west expansion from WWX, then sounds good! Just wanted to ask the question as I figured others might have it, too



The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/01 17:26:38


Post by: Necros


Yeah it will be different enough I think ... the heart of the game is still going to be a hollywood-historical kind of setting, just with monsters thrown into the mix too, but still totally optional.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/01 17:27:52


Post by: Cyporiean


You're really going to have to do Laurel and Hardy in that expansion.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/02 07:59:23


Post by: cybogoblin


Don't forget Abbott and Costello



The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/02 22:26:38


Post by: weeble1000


I am with RiTides in that WWX is NOT an aesthetic that I like. It is way too "slick" and "cool," like the artwork for 3.5 DnD. It is all sharply pointed, impractically layered, rivet-filled drivel.

I like a believable weird west. That photoshop by solosam is, I think, pretty close to the mark.

Brisco County is always my go-to reference! I like a dose of camp in my weird west, but not too much, like cream in your coffee. Full Brisco is too much (it's like a strawberry mocha frappachino with whipped cream), but dial back the puns and pop culture references and you've got it!

I like a little bit of technological advancement, a dash of steam punk, if you will, like the "knockout gas" super cannon, the "steel horses," Ned Zed's "Machinery Gun," and such like from the Brisco series. Wild Wild West is also a good reference for me personally; you've got crazy advanced science, but it is crazy advanced science that most folks think is unbelievable. Another EXCELLENT reference is the FIRST Red Dead game, Red Dead Revolver.

I also like a dash of Victorian horror to spice things up a bit; some monsters, cultists, and a dose of magic, but almost always left on the furthest edges of explanation, like a good X-Files episode.

All you need to know is enough to get the point across. What was that creepy thing that washed in from the ocean and was killing all of those people? Who the F knows, but you learned just enough to send it to Hell today!

The point is, for me, the weird west is WEIRD because things that are not normal for a traditional western setting are, well, NOT NORMAL. People do not look at a gatling pistol as the height of awesome technology, but as a WEIRD thing that shouldn't really exist. Most "normal" folks wouldn't believe in the things that go 'bump' in the night, but that does not make them any less of a real, if outlandishly rare, threat. The movie Burrowers is a perfect example, and a pretty cool B movie too.

In WWX, too much is par for the course. Even the buildings have funky scrap metal all bolted to them. Too much, too much, too much. It is a fantasy steam-punk setting with a dose of wild west. I do not look at something like WWX as weird west, but western steam-punk.

Edit: Necros, borrow the Hell out of Deadlands. I wouldn't worry about it. On a very high level, much of what one would borrow from Deadlands would amount to inspiration rather than out and out copying. Deadlands is so strongly based on American myth and folklore and steam-punk tropes that it is hard to say that Deadlands gets to keep all of that exclusive to itself. There are bits that are pure Deadlands, but like 40K, that vein of pure Deadlands is a very specific amalgam of stuff. BWG from what I have seen is not copying Deadlands, but your ideas for the weird west elements of BWG are very Deadlands-ISH in the sense that you are, in my opinion, in the sweet spot of "proper" weird west; inspiration from and a unique spin on history, myth, folklore, and well-trodden tropes.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/02 22:51:42


Post by: solosam


The movie Burrowers is a perfect example, and a pretty cool B movie too.


This was a really good movie. I agree that I prefer the more low-key horror, as opposed to WWX's "Western Warhammer" aesthetic.

-Solo Sam


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/02 23:23:48


Post by: Necros


I'll have to see if Burrowers is on Netflix Never got to see Brisco, and Netflix doesn't have it :(

But yeah, I want to go with more of a subtle weird west from a fluff perspective. I'm kind of thinking of it a lot like the TV show Supernatural... there's drifter monster hunters out there, they move from town to town following rumors and killing off the bad things ... saving people who have no idea they needed to be saved in the first place.

We'll have Engineers for some slight steampunkyness, but that will be subtle too... one guy might have a hand cannon or gatling rifle, even that stuff I want to try and make it look mostly believable.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/02 23:28:29


Post by: Cyporiean


Another thing to look at, especially with your other homage characters:



The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/02 23:49:09


Post by: Necros


I was thinking if we got into ghosts we could do a ghostbuster.. could maybe add that in with the undead stuff


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/03 01:29:34


Post by: weeble1000


Burrowers is on Netflix. It is the only reason I saw it. Very fun movie though, lower budget, but a good wild west monster story.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/03 02:02:25


Post by: Alfndrate


Weeble, better not let the WWX fan boys see your post They might tell you how you're trolling.

Necros, I'm pretty much with everyone that says, a believable weird west is the way to go

Love the stuff I've seen so far for your game


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/03 12:56:05


Post by: weeble1000


 Alfndrate wrote:
Weeble, better not let the WWX fan boys see your post They might tell you how you're trolling.

Necros, I'm pretty much with everyone that says, a believable weird west is the way to go

Love the stuff I've seen so far for your game


Yea, well they can suck my peacemaker without a stupid attached knife blade.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/11 23:59:27


Post by: solosam


Necros,

Thought you might like this guy. He's a giant mountain man who adorns himself with bones. This pic is from a "Wolverine" comic. If he were a mini, I'd buy it.

Also, you might have realized by now that I'm just going to keep throwing out ideas until you tell me to stop.

- Solo Sam

[Thumb - 401263_1896380107296_541411600_n.jpg]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/12 21:06:03


Post by: Necros


Keep the ideas coming .. less work for me to do! :p

Seriously though, lots of good ideas, I'll use the ones that fit Been reading up on a lot of different folklore creatures lately. But we're not going to start really developing this until we get the recent Kickstarter more squared away.. probably really get things started next month or into june. I had hoped to do a new Kickstarter for this some time this summer, but it will most likely end up being in the fall. Want to get it really fleshed out and looking good from the get go.

We've been back and forth over the idea of doing it as a starter box set or a plain old expansion with just a book and some new minis. I think we're going to end up going the boxed set route, like what I was discussing in the other box set idea thread.

So the current plan is the box will come with the Werewolf starter set, Unsung starter set (human monster hunter gang), a 2x2' double sided 4-panel folding board, with flat cardstock building interior templates, and some standees for obstacles like crates & barrels, etc, and a full rulebook. Basically BWG 2.0. But, the original rulebook will still be valid for players that just want to play the game as is with all humans. The new book will just have rules for Skinwalkers & beasts plus rules for campaigns.

The new book and models will be sold separately for the folks that don't want the box set too.. and of course we'll do lots of monsters. I'm thinking though for the Skinwalkers, the only real starter set will be the werewolves.. we'll sell support packs for others.. and other Alpha skinwalkers will be sold separately along with unique monsters like Sasquach or the Wendigo.

Also thinking of adjusting the new rules a bit where instead of Skinwalkers, Undead and others being all new factions there will just be 2, humans vs supernaturals. You can still form a gang with whoever you want, but your gang leader determines if it's a mundane or a supernatural gang.. and adding one to the other will be treated like hired guns.. so if a human gang wanted to have a skinwalker, it would be treated like a hired gun so you need at least 5 models to let him join as #6. If you want another skinwalker, you need 5 more humans first. Human hired guns can only join human gangs, and Supernatural monsters can only join Supernatural gangs.

Then some day later when we start doing zombies, they will just be supernatural too. No need to make a whole new rulebook to explain a whole new faction.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/12 22:13:47


Post by: solosam


All I can say is.... HURRY UP! I'm already saving my money!

- Solo Sam


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/18 14:36:57


Post by: Necros


So I'm hard at work writing the new rules, while working on painting new figures and organizing the last campaign, which is why updates have been slow lately.

But, here's some new ideas and slight changes to some of the old rules for gang creation.

I'm thinking of doing away with hired guns (sort of) to simplify things a bit. So there will just be 3 levels. For humans you have your Bosses, Professionals and Henchmen. Supernaturals get Monsters, Fiends and Beasts. Since all hired guns are as tough as a gang leader, I'm thinking we don't need 2 types of the same thing.. starting to feel redundant. So, you can have any boss level person lead your gang, even "hired guns". Every boss level person gets a special bonus ability, just some are geared more toward helping your whole gang, others are for helping themselves. So, you could have Wilt Clancy lead your gang, and his ability can be shared like now... or you can have Shamus McFox lead your gang, and your gang won't get any special bonus. It's probably best to have an actual gang leader type lead your gang, but you'll have the option to use any Boss level guy you want.

Then, you can still have other bosses join your gang, 1 boss for every 5 models just like now where you have 1 hired gun for every 5. Supernatural monsters would be the same way.. an Alpha skinwalker would have a bonus skill that helps the whole pack, but a Wendigo will be more of a loner.

For custom gangs, I think what I'll do is list out each and every boss skill so if you want to make custom bosses, right now a custom leader doesn't get anything special besides lucky dice.

Also going to have only Humans able to get the Leaders Luck rule, supernaturals will cause fear so each big monster will count as 2 models for morale outnumbering purposes.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/19 12:59:24


Post by: solosam


I decided I couldn't wait, so I bought this mini from Black Cat Bases. I tried to give him a realistic gray wolf paint scheme, supplemented with some Indian-style war paint.


[Thumb - werewolf.jpg]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/19 13:22:02


Post by: Necros


Looking good one thing I'm planning is for some bigger monsters to be on 40mm bases, or even 60mm if the model is big enough.. all alpha skinwalkers will be on 40mm bases


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/04/20 20:51:23


Post by: Mississippi


Solosam. That's an awesone looking fig. Great job.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/05/09 17:05:17


Post by: G-S


 Necros wrote:
I'm going for more of a "what if all those folklore critters were real" kind of thing. The one I'm more worried about "coying" would be Deadlands, which I'm actually not all that familiar with. So I'm just taking some folklore stories and giving it my own spin and we'll take it from there

At the end of the day, if people buy WWX models to play BWG, or vise versa, then everyone wins

Actually I am buying BWG for Deadlands, your skirmish game will get some play, but I have to admit the reason I got the minis was to add to the collection I use for Deadlands.
Your idea so far works great, and I am looking forward to it, I am not worried I am happy to see new minis that should work for one of the games I play. Hope that helps.


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/05/12 02:23:41


Post by: solosam


In anticipation of "Curse of the Skinwalker" I went back and re-read some of my old 'Werewolf: the Apocalypse' books. I have several of their 'Werewolf: The Wild West' books, and I was actually pretty disappointed by the art. It is high-quality (some of Deadland's art is just awful) but I found it very unimaginative. Most of the art consists of Werewolves eating random cowboys, and the Werewolves themselves are very generic and unadorned... There are a lot of pictures of them wearing feathers, and every now and then one has a bone-pipe breastplate.

These are two of the coolest pictures I found: The one on the left is one of the more interesting Werewolves... he has a lot of Native American style decoration. It might be cool to see an Alpha or something like this... I hope we get figures that are clearly "Werewolves in the Old West" rather than "Generic Werewolves" which could be suitable for any random genre... the market has enough of those.

I also liked this Hopi guy on the right. I think he looks pretty badass, with his skeleton belt and giant mask. I don't recall ever reading about the Hopi as a violent people... certainly not on the scale of the Sioux or Comanche. Nonetheless, a model similar to this would be very neat as a hired gun. At a minimum, it would be a model that is very unique and doesn't duplicate concepts already on the market.


[Thumb - 2.jpg]


The Blackwater Gulch Weird West Expansion @ 2013/05/13 01:46:01


Post by: Khorneball


 RiTides wrote:

It seems like it might be better to stick to a pure wild west theme, instead, to differentiate a bit from that juggernaut... which is almost completely weird west.


I don't agree. There is a huge difference between using historical set pieces (characters with actual guns and weapons) in a historically accurate time setting (1870-1890) that people can relate to with the addition of supernatural components (werewolves for example) as compared to WWX. That game uses historical personas (sherman grant and sheridan) that people can relate to and places them in a strange and futuristic setting that looks like the world we think we know but broken and unrecognizable. When I first saw WWX I immediately thought of that terrible western space cartoon Bravestar.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bravestarr&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PD2QUdjJEMG_0AGEvYG4DA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=673

I think that BWG expanding into the alternate reality with its weird west is not so much steam punk as it is more of a glimpse into the "what if" of our subconscious belief of the mythology of the unexplainable from that time period.

Old ghost tales and the yarns of the time period that created the mythos in the first place.

Keep bringing it Necros

Drew