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Post by: Kroothawk
tristessa over at Warseer wrote:Hello
I thought it would be interesting to try and compile a list of lost GW projects. Rather than individual casts or sculpts that never quite make it, there are a few larger projects that forever reason never made it to retail. Now I know of a few, but of course there's a good chance these might be urban myths or distorted by time. I hope that the community may have a bit of light to shed on them or maybe a few phantom projects to add. These are based on projects I've either seen bits of, spoken with people regarding or have been at events and heard about.
From the top of my head I can think of the following -
Harry Potter Quidditch - apparently this was created and a few kits mocked up to pitch for the license. Never made it past that stage though one of the kits was on eBay for about an hour back in 2009... I can only imagine what the forums would have been like.
Codex Squats - 2nd Edition. Yeah, reset the clock. Would love to know how far down the line this progressed. It seemed on target for a launch in 1994 and then nothing!
Man O' War - Expansion 3. There was a lot of concept art produced prior to the Man O' War game launching back in 1993 and some of this was shown in a White Dwarf around then. There was art featured for the undead and apparently these were set for an expansion before the great cull of 1995. I heard that this got pulled due to "trouble" at the studio.
Adeptus Mechanicus 40k Army - rather than the mid-nineties pieces that were produced and then found their way on to Stuff of Legends, as of 2004 there was a plan to release them as a stand-alone army in 2007. I heard that these got pulled due to staff turnover at the design studio, but also the more outlandish story that the designer left owning all the rights.
Codex Alien Hunters - planned for release in 2004, referenced in 4th edition 40k, then slipped for 2005 and then 200X... Still waiting. Given the way that kits are made, these have to have been pretty close to release for a while before vanishing mysteriously near the Eastern-fringe.
40k 4th Edition: Advanced Edition. Andy Chambers planned and designed an advanced version of 40k that would have been an expansion for 4th edition. From what I can recall, it would have had more detailed assault rules, squads throwing grenades.
There are rumours that his delivery of this rules set cost him his job, though I expect that is blown out of proportion a bit. CF. Advancing the 40k timeline - post 2003 it seemed very likely until the overlord left.
Plastic Thunderhawk - as far as I know, it has been pretty much ready to go since 2007 and yet where is it?? I had heard that back in 2008, despite both being ready it would be the stompa or thunderhawk that got the release. The rest is history.
Bloodbowl 2013: - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383522-Blood-Bowl-in-November I could have sworn that I've heard of people seeing the kits!
Edit - A list of lost projects discussed/mentioned in the thread below, with links where possible.
Harry Potter Quidditch - concept work. May have made it to eBay.
Codex Squats - stalled after limited enthusiasm to new model releases in 1994
Another Trolls game - presumably oi dats no fun.
Codex Alien Hunters - planned for 2005 but never made it. Referenced in the 4th edition rulebook but never made it past that point.
40k 4th Edition: Advanced Edition - announced by Andy Chambers in early 2004 and then referenced by Graham McNeil at Conflict Edinburgh in March 2004. Never released. Would have had rules for throwing grenades, running out of ammo etc.
Plastic Thunderhawk - oft rumoured but very much quashed in this thread. I believe that some planning regarding this project has taken place but others (with better sources than my own) disagree.
Battlefleet Gothic 2nd ed. - died with specialist games in 2008. Andy Chambers recently spoke about it in interview with Conclave of Har - http://www.conclaveofhar.com/hobby-articles.html
Darkside: 40k Supplement (aka Boarding/Void War 40k Supplement) - rumoured 2005/2006 and again in 2009 around time of Planetstrike as being something they'd like to do. Design document made in 05 then scrapped.
Matrix Models/Game pitch - sighted at Games Day 1998. Game would have taken place inside the Matrix and the Realworld at the same time.
Battlefleet Gothic v0.5 - Richard Halliwelll's space combat game - somehow became Spacefleet and then BFG 1.0.
Plastic Dwarf Command Sprue - Lost, broken, lost and broken. Few exist in circulation. Warseer member Harry has one!
Star Wars/Spawn pitch sculpts - http://www.acl.com.au/joe/images.nsf/eGroup%20-%20Unreleased%20Misc?OpenPage Some info here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?171010-Did-GW-ever-pursue-a-license-for-Star-Wars&highlight=quidditch+ebay
Tamurkhan v0.5 - Rick Priestley ends the Warhammer World/his GW career. The original plan as released at Games Day 2010 is summarised: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/archive/index.php/t-10326.html
Aspect Warriors (Megadrive game) - http://segaretro.org/Aspect_Warriors
54mm 40k Models oft. rumoured precursors to Inq. models.
Confrontation - Early 90s White Dwarf rules and background, Necromunda precursor. Model range was released and can be found of Stuff of Legends: http://www.sodemons.com/rhrare/confrontation/index.htm
Gorkamorka Racing - PC/Dreamcast game. Canned in 2000. Was playable at Games Day 1999. - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDoQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DndLhrTw-wgA&ei=0gNxUru6D8SUhQehqIDQDA&usg=AFQjCNEcq08ZnZjk1gckSW0hIwTtC4sIOg&sig2=2vgjVJGf1vRdgs-ssuQ-JA&bvm=bv.55617003,d.ZG4
Ad. Mech Playtest/GW Studio Fan Armylist 2003/2005 - Graham McNeil confirmed AdMech "being explored" at Conflict Edinburgh 2004 - http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/codex_adeptusmechanicus.htm - More details on provenance of lists below.
Man O' War - Expansion 3 / Man O' War 2.0 - Expansion 3 lost in the mix, Man O War 2.0 smashed by GW employee as part of playtesting (see story in thread!).
Amazon/Lustrian Expansion for WHFB 1st Edition - Scrapped
Red Flows the Lynsk - Kislev Campaign Pack for WHFB 5th Ed. Unreleased. Authored by Nigel Stillman.
Titan Legions Add-Ons - few made it to market in 1999. The warmonger crops up on ebay for a lot of money. The imperial psi-titans less so (if ever released at all).
Necromunda Hive Secondus Expansion - announced 2003. Lost in the mix.
Bloodquest the movie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEY630UaMg - announced in 2000. Canned.
Marine / Eldar RT books - Announced but never completed. Superceded by 2nd Edition.
Formula Waaargh! board game - Ork racing boardgame, planned for 1999. Story/art direct from the artist here: http://ralphhorsley.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/the-big-break-formula-waaargh.html
90s Games Day Hive City Film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZBplpT3Iy4
90s Games Day Inquisitor Film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6l1AlK5JZ0
Colin Grayson's WHFB Buildings - was working on "interchangeable bits that could build a variety of houses" ala cities of death kit. scrapped and repurposed into existing range of defined buildings
WFRPG expansion to Nippon/Cathay - scrapped
Final Liberation Expansion(s) - slots were included in the PC game for extra units/races but obviously it never sold well enough to warrant the release
Valhallan Ice Warriors - Games Day 1999 sighting of a Skidoo. Probably a pitch sculpt/personal project.
Warhammer Online v0.5 - developed and then scrapped. More like an RTS than MMORPG?
Fishmen - oft rumoured joke-race for WHFB. Probably only exists as a placeholder on the studio release schedule, confusing guests and throwing rumourmongers off the scent!
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383619-Lost-GW-projects!
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Post by: Grot 6
They will not be denied!!!
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Post by: fishy bob
We had an employee at the local GW a few years ago that would always joke about Fishmen, saying how it was his favourite army. He no longer works there, because of his un-GW-like manners.
The list was a good read!
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Post by: Pacific
 Kroothawk wrote:
40k 4th Edition: Advanced Edition - announced by Andy Chambers in early 2004 and then referenced by Graham McNeil at Conflict Edinburgh in March 2004. Never released. Would have had rules for throwing grenades, running out of ammo etc.
I heard the same thing years ago from someone fairly senior when I worked for GW (probably around that time, if not before). I then heard from someone else that the idea got transmuted into what would eventually become apocalypse, which probably sounds about right.
Interesting list though, and a few I had completely forgotten about! I'm sure there are more. Takes you back to when the 'Games' in 'Games Workshop' could validly be used in the plural, and stuff like this was coming out constantly.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Not gonna lie. I'm intrigued by the Quidditch game and kinda wanna see the stuff that made it to ebay.
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Post by: Bookwrack
 Pacific wrote: Kroothawk wrote:
40k 4th Edition: Advanced Edition - announced by Andy Chambers in early 2004 and then referenced by Graham McNeil at Conflict Edinburgh in March 2004. Never released. Would have had rules for throwing grenades, running out of ammo etc.
I heard the same thing years ago from someone fairly senior when I worked for GW (probably around that time, if not before). I then heard from someone else that the idea got transmuted into what would eventually become apocalypse, which probably sounds about right.
Advanced Edition was one of those things as completely made up as 'Summer of Fliers' and 'Storm of Arrows.' Nothing that ever existed, but boy did people grab onto it at times.
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Post by: filbert
Kroothawk wrote:
Final Liberation Expansion(s) - slots were included in the PC game for extra units/races but obviously it never sold well enough to warrant the release
There is a kernel of truth here. SSC (I think!) the games' producers released the source code to fan sites and they expanded on what was already there. Development is still ongoing but there were place-holders in the code for Tyranids and Chaos, I believe. Whether they ever make the light of day remains to be seen.
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Post by: xruslanx
 Bookwrack wrote:
Advanced Edition was one of those things as completely made up as 'Summer of Fliers' and 'Storm of Arrows.' Nothing that ever existed, but boy did people grab onto it at times.
Well it seems like Andy Chambers actually announced it...I'd actually be interested in a game expansion for 40k that's not apocolypse. Something aimed at the vet crowd rather than newcomers, maybe an alternative d10 ruleset.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Let's not forget 3rd edition Codex Apocalypse (not related to the Apoc mega battle rules that came later) mentioned in WD. Would have covered SoB and other Imperial Agents.
And while we're at it there was a rumored 2nd edition Imperial Agents codex.
And as for Codex Squats, they were promised in the 2nd edition IG codex.
I'd have to dig but I seem to recall that both Epic Exodites were promised and Epic Warhammer Fantasy (eventually became Warmaster).
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Post by: Kelly502
I liked Gorkamorka. I still have my Ork trukks I made, roll-bars, big shootas, grapnel hooks. I have the rules still, very playable. I made a trukk with cages on either side with squigs that were fed metal bits and had explosives strapped to them, the trukk crew would drop them as they drove and the thought was for the squig to get hit by or explode close to the enemy vehicle.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Ah, I knew I'd seen the Imperial Agents Codex somewhere.
Also from the 2nd edition IG book.
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Post by: Azazelx
Interesting reading there. Thanks for posting this, Kroot!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
"Adeptus Mechanicus 40k Army - rather than the mid-nineties pieces that were produced and then found their way on to Stuff of Legends, as of 2004 there was a plan to release them as a stand-alone army in 2007. I heard that these got pulled due to staff turnover at the design studio, but also the more outlandish story that the designer left owning all the rights."
Owning the rights to what exactly?
And the Man'O'War 2.0... smashed? Smashed?
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Post by: Ouze
No shizz. At this point they could release a codex that included FW units and they'd need nearly no new models.
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Post by: Pacific
Bookwrack wrote: Pacific wrote: Kroothawk wrote:
40k 4th Edition: Advanced Edition - announced by Andy Chambers in early 2004 and then referenced by Graham McNeil at Conflict Edinburgh in March 2004. Never released. Would have had rules for throwing grenades, running out of ammo etc.
I heard the same thing years ago from someone fairly senior when I worked for GW (probably around that time, if not before). I then heard from someone else that the idea got transmuted into what would eventually become apocalypse, which probably sounds about right.
Advanced Edition was one of those things as completely made up as 'Summer of Fliers' and 'Storm of Arrows.' Nothing that ever existed, but boy did people grab onto it at times.
Bearing in mind I this was in the time when GW were fairly liberal with information, before the more recent trend of 1-week of advance warning of releases and tight information control at HQ. And it was from a fairly senior manager, rather than a intuitive-leap made by bloggers who had seen half-glimpsed out of focus photos of stuff. And, I heard the same thing subsequently (from other staff) from different sources. So.. I would say it probably there is a lot more chance that it existed at some point than either of the other names you mentioned! 
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Post by: Selym
 Ouze wrote:
No shizz. At this point they could release a codex that included FW units and they'd need nearly no new models.
They have - with every IA book 
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Post by: BaconUprising
GW were so much cooler in the past...
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Post by: PredaKhaine
Nostalgia's not what it used to be though
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Post by: zedmeister
I have another to add to the list. I've seen and heard occasional rumours crop up from time to time:
Codex Titanicus 2
There is mention of "Codex Titanicus II" in the original Epic Space Marine rulebook from 1989. I've discovered some rumour and hearsay about what else was to be included in Codex Titanicus 2:
Atlas Class Warlord Titan - a testbed Titan used by the Diviso Investigatus for testing new technologies
Legatus Class Warlord Command Titan
Vulcan Class Warlord
Nemesis Class Psi-Titan
Looking at the metal Titan weapons released around the end of 1st edition, it wouldn't be too much of a leap to suppose that the command heads, devotional bell and others could create a command titan. The Nemesis Psi-Titan was sculpted and underwent a limited release in the US.
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Post by: warspawned
Really interesting list - tis a pity GW never really finished 2nd Edition before moving to 3rd - setting a precursor for every edition since it seems? While I know they felt the Squats were a bad idea that they put in 2nd Edition from the beginning (as a collective of most RT stuff that was developed and shown in WD over the years prior to 2nd Ed), I just felt their design was off the mark - not the entire concept 
Anywho I remember a preview feature for Aspect Warriors - now I've just spent 20 minutes looking gooey eyed at old Sega Magazines - curse you Dakka!
That Preview can be seen in all its glory here:
Now I have to spend time downloading old sega magazines for my retro file of immensity 
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
Somewhere around 2nd and 3rd edition there was a necron 'tank' being worked upon. I recall it being mentioned in white dwarf as a future project. But nothing of the sort appeared and Necrons didn't get a full release for quite a long time, by then they had the monoliths and other things. I remember hearing that the person working on the necron tank had died or had some accident (but I've no reason to believe that). A tank would have been a bit too conventional though and the set back probably have them time to properly work out the style of the line.
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Post by: Grimtuff
 Howard A Treesong wrote:Somewhere around 2nd and 3rd edition there was a necron 'tank' being worked upon. I recall it being mentioned in white dwarf as a future project. But nothing of the sort appeared and Necrons didn't get a full release for quite a long time, by then they had the monoliths and other things. I remember hearing that the person working on the necron tank had died or had some accident (but I've no reason to believe that). A tank would have been a bit too conventional though and the set back probably have them time to properly work out the style of the line.
It was mentioned IIRC when the Necrons had their 3rd ed. WD list, with Rick Priestley mentioning future development for them, but they were too " raw and bleeding" to be shown to the public yet.
I'm just spitballing here, but it's also entirely possible there was a load of Necron stuff slated for the Citadel Journal, which was stopped after the death of Steve Hambrook. But we may be putting 2+2 together and getting 5 there.
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Post by: Ouze
 Selym wrote: Ouze wrote:
No shizz. At this point they could release a codex that included FW units and they'd need nearly no new models.
They have - with every IA book
Sorry, I was vague. I mean, they could release Codex: Mechanicum right now, in my opinion, with the Forge World offerings.
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Post by: Saldiven
My recollection about Squats was that they were discontinued because, at that time, there was nobody in the studio that was interested in pursuing their development. That was still relatively early in the existance of GW, so development really proceeded based on whatever developers were interested in doing. Squats existed as a White Dwarf released army list that was actually fairly well detailed and differed from what IG developed into in several ways (slower moving, higher toughness, more heavy weapons in squads, better in assault, etc.). It's unfortunate that they decided not to pursue that army; I think it had a lot of potential.
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Post by: cammy
 H.B.M.C. wrote:"Adeptus Mechanicus 40k Army - rather than the mid-nineties pieces that were produced and then found their way on to Stuff of Legends, as of 2004 there was a plan to release them as a stand-alone army in 2007. I heard that these got pulled due to staff turnover at the design studio, but also the more outlandish story that the designer left owning all the rights."
Owning the rights to what exactly?
And the Man'O'War 2.0... smashed? Smashed?
I agree - its pretty standard and has been that any IP that an individual works on ( or creates) while under the employment of the company belongs to said company unless there is specific documents detailing otherwise.
It more likely that they didn't like the concept of the work from that designer so when then left they let it die as they would have had to go back to square 1.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
it's not impossible that some significant design/work was done by a freelancer with insufficiently tight contract (as was shown to be the case in the chapterhouse lawsuit where GW tried to con some old artists etc into signing over right's to a variety of stuff)
if the freelancer then became full time at the design studio and expanded on this work it would still be based on rights not owned by GW
a bit of a stretch, but possible
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Post by: Kroothawk
See the Malal case.
Also, in German law you can't lose the copyright on the things you created.
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Post by: cammy
Kroothawk wrote:See the Malal case.
Also, in German law you can't lose the copyright on the things you created.
This may be the case,. but as far as im aware there isnt a similar precedent in the UK for this.
I suppose it is possible that there wasnt a tight enough contract and the worker was a freelancer - if so extremely shoddy by GW.
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Post by: Selym
cammy wrote: Kroothawk wrote:See the Malal case.
Also, in German law you can't lose the copyright on the things you created.
This may be the case,. but as far as im aware there isnt a similar precedent in the UK for this.
I suppose it is possible that there wasnt a tight enough contract and the worker was a freelancer - if so extremely shoddy by GW.
"Shoddy" is GW's middle name. They've had faaar to many feth ups over copyright/resale laws recently than any "professional" company that takes itself seriously should be expected to do.
And Failcast, but that's another topic.
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Post by: Balance
When was the Malal thing? It seems like ti's long enough ago that GW was probably a lot more loose about things like NDAs, contracts, etc. than they probably are now.
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Post by: Saldiven
 Balance wrote:When was the Malal thing? It seems like ti's long enough ago that GW was probably a lot more loose about things like NDAs, contracts, etc. than they probably are now.
The first time I remember Malal being discussed was in the original WHFRP book that came out around 1988. The thing is that a lot of the core ideas that GW clings to as their IP were created during that same time period when they were very loose with their legal control of created items.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I know we're getting really hung up on an off hand comment in an unconfirmed rumor about a canceled project but...
Also don't forget that GW managed to lose the trademarks to the names of their entire paint line. Leading to the new, even stupider names.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:it's not impossible that some significant design/work was done by a freelancer with insufficiently tight contract (as was shown to be the case in the chapterhouse lawsuit where GW tried to con some old artists etc into signing over right's to a variety of stuff)
if the freelancer then became full time at the design studio and expanded on this work it would still be based on rights not owned by GW
a bit of a stretch, but possible
All the stuff I've written is property of GW (via FFG). Never really had a problem with that.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
There is certainly stuff from the early days that GW do not hold copyright on, which came to light in the Chapter House case. That was stuff from the late 80s and early 90s, I believe.
I would think they have cleaned up their copyright contract provisions since then. It's not exactly rocket science as standard terms of contract have been around for many decades.
It is possible there might be projects started 20 years ago that weren't locked down properly and had to be canned due to some sort of copyright issue.
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Post by: tau tse tung
CATHAY 
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Post by: Jehan-reznor
Saldiven wrote: Balance wrote:When was the Malal thing? It seems like ti's long enough ago that GW was probably a lot more loose about things like NDAs, contracts, etc. than they probably are now.
The first time I remember Malal being discussed was in the original WHFRP book that came out around 1988. The thing is that a lot of the core ideas that GW clings to as their IP were created during that same time period when they were very loose with their legal control of created items.
It was also mentioned in one of the realm of chaos books
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Post by: Pacific
H.B.M.C. wrote: OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:it's not impossible that some significant design/work was done by a freelancer with insufficiently tight contract (as was shown to be the case in the chapterhouse lawsuit where GW tried to con some old artists etc into signing over right's to a variety of stuff)
if the freelancer then became full time at the design studio and expanded on this work it would still be based on rights not owned by GW
a bit of a stretch, but possible
All the stuff I've written is property of GW (via FFG). Never really had a problem with that.
I suppose it's perhaps different because you are writing within an already established framework of a universe, that has boundaries set by other writers and artists before you.
If however you'd been doing it 25-30 years ago, the first daemons, marines, concepts of Eldar and the like, and really where the whole universe was being padded out by those guys, I think there is a lot more of a grey area. And obviously, being a vastly smaller company then with different priorities (and without a veracious legal department) I shouldn't think it was an issue.
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Post by: Kroothawk
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:Also don't forget that GW managed to lose the trademarks to the names of their entire paint line. Leading to the new, even stupider names.
I heard this as a vague rumour, connected to outsourcing it to China, any confirmations? They still use Chaos Black and Skull White though.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Kroothawk wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote:Also don't forget that GW managed to lose the trademarks to the names of their entire paint line. Leading to the new, even stupider names.
I heard this as a vague rumour, connected to outsourcing it to China, any confirmations? They still use Chaos Black and Skull White though.
Those paints are called "Abaddon Black" and "Ceramite White" now though. They only still have the original names in the spray paints.
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Post by: sing your life
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Also don't forget that GW managed to lose the trademarks to the names of their entire paint line. Leading to the new, even stupider names.
Those new paints names are cool.
 Grimtuff wrote:
Those paints are called "Abaddon Black" and "Ceramite White" now though. They only still have the original names in the spray paints.
The new skull white is actaully white scar.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Man I'd love a good Cathay or Nippon take, but I fear what GW would give us.
There was a rumor a while back GW planned to make them pig men and the 'joke' was they thought the white Europeons were barbarians. Funny stuff no? They'd fit in great with the frogmen Aztecs and orc Africans.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Man I'd love a good Cathay or Nippon take, but I fear what GW would give us.
There was a rumor a while back GW planned to make them pig men and the 'joke' was they thought the white Europeons were barbarians. Funny stuff no? They'd fit in great with the frogmen Aztecs and orc Africans.
Orcs* are Warhammer Scots. Read into that what you will.
*Not Savage Orcs, those have "real life" roots elsewhere; as you correctly pointed out.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Yeah I was thinking of savage orcs.
At least GW's pygmy army (black halflings with huge lips) never made it into production.
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Post by: Trench-Raider
At least GW's pygmy army (black halflings with huge lips) never made it into production
They did make it into production. I have about a dozen of them in my collection.
Although they were never fleshed out into a full army, they did have an "allied contingent" mini-list in one of the WFB army book. (third edition perhaps...my copy is not handy)
But yes, the figures made it into production and were released.
TR
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Post by: Azazelx
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Also don't forget that GW managed to lose the trademarks to the names of their entire paint line. Leading to the new, even stupider names.
How's that?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yeah it wasn't them losing the original names, it was them wanting to have names that they could trade mark that gave us the change (and gave us such wonderfully non-descriptive names such as XV-88 and The Fang).
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Post by: sing your life
H.B.M.C. wrote: (and gave us such wonderfully non-descriptive names such as XV-88 and The Fang).
No worse than some of the name P3 is takking onto their paints [bloodstone ]
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Post by: ExNoctemNacimur
I like the new GW names, they just don't give - well, anyone - an idea about the colour they're supposed to be.
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Post by: sing your life
 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:I like the new GW names, they just don't give - well, anyone - an idea about the colour they're supposed to be.
Just look at the fething paint and get a good idea of it's colour.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Nah. He's got a legitimate complaint. Stop apologising for GW's crappy paint names.
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Post by: ExNoctemNacimur
If I go somewhere, and I'm advised to get "The Fang" colour, then what colour is that? At least with "Space Wolves Grey" or something you have a rough idea what it should look like (Though that is perhaps a bad example).
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Post by: Kroothawk
Grimtuff wrote:
Orcs* are Warhammer Scots. Read into that what you will.
In Poland, Orks=Germans.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote:I like the new GW names, they just don't give - well, anyone - an idea about the colour they're supposed to be.
Most names have a colour in them, like Wazdakka Red. If you find the old names descriptive, there are conversion tables:
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Post by: ExNoctemNacimur
And does everyone have internet with them 24/7?
@Kroothawk: Thanks for that, didn't know that existed!
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Post by: jonolikespie
You can learn pretty much the entire sum of human knowledge from google, doesn't mean that it's not stupid to name paints in a way that someone can't tell the colour from the name.
Also can you please stop with the facepalm images, or at least resize them down a bit.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
One shouldn't need a search engine to figure out the colour of something.
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Post by: ExNoctemNacimur
 jonolikespie wrote:Also can you please stop with the facepalm images, or at least resize them down a bit.
And it hurt my feelings :(
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Post by: Platuan4th
 sing your life wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote: (and gave us such wonderfully non-descriptive names such as XV-88 and The Fang).
No worse than some of the name P3 is takking onto their paints [bloodstone ]
Do you mean the P3 Bloodstone that is actually fairly similar to the shade of red that actual bloodstones have on them?
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Post by: Azazelx
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah it wasn't them losing the original names, it was them wanting to have names that they could trade mark that gave us the change (and gave us such wonderfully non-descriptive names such as XV-88 and The Fang).
Yeah, that's what I thought it was. Especially if you consider the colour and almost-name matching of Vallejo Game Colour, which was created especially as a Citadel paint analog.
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Post by: scarletsquig
It's a shame Aspect Warriors didn't make it to the megadrive, that looked like a fun game.
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Post by: xruslanx
H.B.M.C. wrote:One shouldn't need a search engine to figure out the colour of something.
The old names were just as ambiguous, it's just that we grew up with them. I actually prefer the old names to the New™ Ones™ but it's wrong to suggest that "Boltgun Metal" is somehow more helpful than "Russ Grey".
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Post by: Palindrome
xruslanx wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:One shouldn't need a search engine to figure out the colour of something.
The old names were just as ambiguous, it's just that we grew up with them. I actually prefer the old names to the New™ Ones™ but it's wrong to suggest that "Boltgun Metal" is somehow more helpful than "Russ Grey".
Boltgun Metal is gunmetal, i.e. a dark metallic gray. Russ Grey could be anything if you don't know a lot about 40k.
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Post by: Formosa
You all forgot the list in the epic 40k.rulebook that listed when all the armies would be put, nids were 2014 lol
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Post by: xruslanx
 Palindrome wrote:xruslanx wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:One shouldn't need a search engine to figure out the colour of something.
The old names were just as ambiguous, it's just that we grew up with them. I actually prefer the old names to the New™ Ones™ but it's wrong to suggest that "Boltgun Metal" is somehow more helpful than "Russ Grey".
Boltgun Metal is gunmetal, i.e. a dark metallic gray. Russ Grey could be anything if you don't know a lot about 40k.
And someone who's not into 40k is going to know what colour a boltgun is? None of the old names were descriptive at all, though they were clearer.
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Post by: timd
 Platuan4th wrote: sing your life wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote: (and gave us such wonderfully non-descriptive names such as XV-88 and The Fang).
No worse than some of the name P3 is takking onto their paints [bloodstone ]
Do you mean the P3 Bloodstone that is actually fairly similar to the shade of red that actual bloodstones have on them?
Except that bloodstone is a green stone with small flecks of red in it.
T
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
GW paint names have a funny relationship with reality, like one called Midnight or Nightshade Blue, it was distinctly purple.
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Post by: Grimtuff
xruslanx wrote: Palindrome wrote:xruslanx wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:One shouldn't need a search engine to figure out the colour of something.
The old names were just as ambiguous, it's just that we grew up with them. I actually prefer the old names to the New™ Ones™ but it's wrong to suggest that "Boltgun Metal" is somehow more helpful than "Russ Grey".
Boltgun Metal is gunmetal, i.e. a dark metallic gray. Russ Grey could be anything if you don't know a lot about 40k.
And someone who's not into 40k is going to know what colour a boltgun is? None of the old names were descriptive at all, though they were clearer.
As already said, gunmetal is an actual thing. You don't need any knowledge of 40k to know what colour that is. Automatically Appended Next Post: Howard A Treesong wrote:GW paint names have a funny relationship with reality, like one called Midnight or Nightshade Blue, it was distinctly purple.
There was midnight blue and deadly nightshade. I have never used the latter, but I used the former a lot; I presume you're on about the second one.
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Post by: ExNoctemNacimur
xruslanx wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:One shouldn't need a search engine to figure out the colour of something.
The old names were just as ambiguous, it's just that we grew up with them. I actually prefer the old names to the New™ Ones™ but it's wrong to suggest that "Boltgun Metal" is somehow more helpful than "Russ Grey".
At least with Boltgun Metal, though, you know that it's probably the kind of colour you paint weapons with. What the hell do you use Russ Grey for, if all you saw was Russ Grey?
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Post by: Alex Kolodotschko
The old names are disturbingly ingrained in my mind still.
I've often found myself attemping to describe the new kitchen cabinets/girlfriend's dress/bedsheets/curtains/suit to the vendor/girlfriend/confused non gaming friend as,
'Yeah it's kinda this colour here with a little Rotting Flesh/Snakebite Leather/Swooping Hawk Turquoise in it.
Most of the time I stop myself but sometimes they slip out.
Dulux's colour names are pretty wild too!
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Post by: fishy bob
 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:The old names are disturbingly ingrained in my mind still.
I've often found myself attemping to describe the new kitchen cabinets/girlfriend's dress/bedsheets/curtains/suit to the vendor/girlfriend/confused non gaming friend as,
'Yeah it's kinda this colour here with a little Rotting Flesh/Snakebite Leather/Swooping Hawk Turquoise in it.
Most of the time I stop myself but sometimes they slip out.
Dulux's colour names are pretty wild too!
Hell, I call my Vallejo Bonewhite "Bleached Bone".
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Post by: Kilkrazy
To be fair to GW, colours like raw umber, burnt ochre and sienna earth are pretty meaningless until you learn them.
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Post by: Azreal13
 Kilkrazy wrote:To be fair to GW, colours like raw umber, burnt ochre and sienna earth are pretty meaningless until you learn them.
But those are genuine historical colours, couched in years of tradition, and in some cases actual natural materials, you would have a fighting chance of at least knowing what ballpark they were in.
My best guess in a vacuum of The Fang would be something at the ivory/bone end of the spectrum, because, you know, fangs is teef.
I would never in a million years guess at a blue/grey shade.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Kilkrazy wrote:To be fair to GW, colours like raw umber, burnt ochre and sienna earth are pretty meaningless until you learn them.
Also, chartreuse.
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Post by: fishy bob
 azreal13 wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:To be fair to GW, colours like raw umber, burnt ochre and sienna earth are pretty meaningless until you learn them.
But those are genuine historical colours, couched in years of tradition, and in some cases actual natural materials, you would have a fighting chance of at least knowing what ballpark they were in.
My best guess in a vacuum of The Fang would be something at the ivory/bone end of the spectrum, because, you know, fangs is teef.
I would never in a million years guess at a blue/grey shade.
Dark Reaper and Skavenblight Dinge are two personal favourites of mine.
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Post by: Azreal13
Platuan4th wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:To be fair to GW, colours like raw umber, burnt ochre and sienna earth are pretty meaningless until you learn them.
Also, chartreuse.
Now, is that a green?
Because if so, there is a drink called chartreuse, which is quite a strong, vibrant green colour.
I genuinely have no idea, but if I'm right, that makes my point. If I'm wrong? Meh. 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
xruslanx wrote:The old names were just as ambiguous, it's just that we grew up with them. I actually prefer the old names to the New™ Ones™ but it's wrong to suggest that "Boltgun Metal" is somehow more helpful than "Russ Grey".
"Boltgun Metal" is a 40K twist on the colour "gunmetal" (sometimes called "gunmetal grey").
But no, they really weren't. Some might have been - like Tinz Bitz - but generally things made sense (Tentacle Pink was pink, Hawk Turquoise was turquoise, Ice Blue was light blue). We didn't have any XV-88 or The Fang.
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Post by: Platuan4th
azreal13 wrote: Platuan4th wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:To be fair to GW, colours like raw umber, burnt ochre and sienna earth are pretty meaningless until you learn them.
Also, chartreuse.
Now, is that a green? Because if so, there is a drink called chartreuse, which is quite a strong, vibrant green colour. I genuinely have no idea, but if I'm right, that makes my point. If I'm wrong? Meh.
I'm not a drinker, so I don't know if the drink still has the same color as the color, so to speak. I wasn't even aware the drink still existed. But yes, it's a yellowish green(it's actually classed as halfway between the two).
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Post by: Azreal13
5 years behind a hotel bar, I know all sorts of weird and wonderful drinks!
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Post by: Platuan4th
Here's the color value version of Chartreuse.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Alex Kolodotschko wrote:The old names are disturbingly ingrained in my mind still.
I've often found myself attemping to describe the new kitchen cabinets/girlfriend's dress/bedsheets/curtains/suit to the vendor/girlfriend/confused non gaming friend as,
'Yeah it's kinda this colour here with a little Rotting Flesh/Snakebite Leather/Swooping Hawk Turquoise in it.
Most of the time I stop myself but sometimes they slip out.
Dulux's colour names are pretty wild too!
I do this, too. Especially when describing shades of brown. "This one is Vermin, that color is Bestial, there is Snakebite Leather.."
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
ExNoctemNacimur wrote:And does everyone have internet with them 24/7?
@Kroothawk: Thanks for that, didn't know that existed!
Funny I was just in a shop and thank goodness they had that posted next to the paints.
I mean silver is now 'runefang steel'? I mean steel is DIFFERENT #$%^ING COLOR than silver.
Feh.
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Post by: carlos13th
GW colour names are awful for the most part.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Luckily the problem can be very easily solved by buying paints from a different range such as Vallejo or Coat d'Arms.
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Post by: Azreal13
Kilkrazy wrote:Luckily the problem can be very easily solved by buying paints from a different range such as Vallejo or Coat d'Arms.
azreal likes this.
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Post by: Grimtuff
azreal13 wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:Luckily the problem can be very easily solved by buying paints from a different range such as Vallejo or Coat d'Arms.
azreal likes this.
Then you get weird looks from people who only use GW paints. "Negro black" WTF kind of colour is that?!?
No, they put the Spanish names on first....
True story.
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Post by: Eggs
Cote d'arms range is actually the old gw range with slightly amended names. Can be a wee bit confusing, but not in the same league as skavenblight dinge™
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
There is also the other side - paint names that are too descriptive.
Secret Weapon has a wash color named Baby Poop Brown....
The Auld Grump, well... at least I know what color it is....
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It's not as if GW's new paint range were the first GW paints to have silly names. I think it started with the Foundation Paints. Iyanden Darksun and Necron Abyss were two utterly meaningless descriptions. But we're drifting... heavily... This begs a bigger question, what colour is The Auld Grump? I want to say "grey", or, as it would be in GW parlance, Old Man's Wheeze™.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
 TheAuldGrump wrote:There is also the other side - paint names that are too descriptive.
Secret Weapon has a wash color named Baby Poop Brown....
The Auld Grump, well... at least I know what color it is....
I have twins, baby poop comes in a lot of shades of brown and some other colors as well.
So not all that helpful a name.
Anyway aren't we off topic now?
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
Kid_Kyoto wrote: TheAuldGrump wrote:There is also the other side - paint names that are too descriptive.
Secret Weapon has a wash color named Baby Poop Brown....
The Auld Grump, well... at least I know what color it is....
I have twins, baby poop comes in a lot of shades of brown and some other colors as well.
So not all that helpful a name.
Anyway aren't we off topic now?
Maybe... just a little....
Back on topic... I seem to recall that once upon a time, when the whole idea of the Undead army lists being split between VC and TK was a new thing....
Wasn't there supposed to be another blood line that was supposed to appear in White Dwarf, a bloodline that was kindly disposed towards humans, if I recall correctly....
The Auld Grump, back in the Paul Sawyer days of White Dwarf, that was.
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Post by: Las
God damn that hive infestation movie is so freaking cool.
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Post by: snurl
The Auld Gump is correct, there was an un named bloodline hinted at in WD. There were Blood Dragons, Nechrarchs, Striogi, Lahmians, and Von Carnstiens.
Gotta track down Gav Thorpe and ask him what else was in the works.
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Post by: reds8n
TheAuldGrump wrote:
Back on topic... I seem to recall that once upon a time, when the whole idea of the Undead army lists being split between VC and TK was a new thing....
Wasn't there supposed to be another blood line that was supposed to appear in White Dwarf, a bloodline that was kindly disposed towards humans, if I recall correctly....
The Auld Grump, back in the Paul Sawyer days of White Dwarf, that was.
It is somewhat apocryphal but when FFG were doing the 2nd edition WFRP stuff they released
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34068798/WHFRP-2-lost-Bloodlines
which until they decide upon fleshing out the VC line a bit more is about as official as we're going to get.
I asked Alessio via Facebook once he'd left GW if he'd be willing to drop even a clue about his take on the missing lines .. but he declined, which is sensible enough. Automatically Appended Next Post: http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/the-malignancy-of-malal-solving-mystery.html
Malaal issue
RoC80s: You have stated that an early concept of Malal was for a daemonic power more evil than Khorne. With the the Blood God seeped in violence, is it really possible that a deity could be more evil than the God of Skulls?
TA: One way to look at is that Khorne is WW2 Wehrmacht, Malal is WW2 SS.
hmm. best dropped after all then IMO.
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