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The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/11/24 18:19:09

Post by: Necros

Just wanted to put this out there and get my next ball rolling I have recently decided that since Mechadrome and Blackwater Gulch both use mostly the same rules, and I think those rules could work for just about any genre, I’ve decided to change things up a bit and am now writing out the rules for the Gangfight Skirmish Game System. This will contain all of the game mechanics and character creation rules, along with skill & equipment lists for a variety of settings.. fantasy, WWII, and more. The goal is to have a flexible system that’s easy to adapt for a almost any game genre or time period.

Then, separately, what I plan to do is have World Books that will be for each game world, so there will be a separate Mechadrome book and eventual Blackwater Gulch book with all of the background, special abilities, equipment, gang bios and everything else you need to play. The rules will be the same, it’s more like the presentation that will change. I’d also like to do themed campaign books for each game, where each will have a small story based on 2 gangs and include some special scenarios to play, and also introduce some new characters, but those would come much later. Campaign rules will also be more integrated, but you’ll still have the option of using cards for premade characters like now.

I’m hoping I can get the rules to a point where folks are using them for their favorite games and models, and even allow other companies to use them for their own lines of minis and game worlds if they want. Open source I guess? I think we have a pretty easy and fun set of rules going so why not make it more flexible and open it up to other settings as well. So that being said, are there any settings you would really love to see included with the core rules? I’d like to have maybe 5 or 6 to choose from in addition to BWG and Mechadrome that will come in separate books. I’ll be doing BWG much later though since those new rules just came out.. and it will take a while to put the new book together anyway and balance out the different settings.

If all goes well, I should have the core rules worked out in the next week or 2, then I'll share em when they're ready Working out the guts of the different settings will take a bit longer though.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/11/24 20:13:56

Post by: RiTides

I personally quite like this idea and then you'd have people playing it in both settings (the wild west / weird west setting has never interested me, whereas mech combat definitely does!).

The only thing I'm not sure about is that it seems like you'd need some different mechanics for mechs as opposed to unarmored humans, such as the ability to lose an arm and keep functioning.

So, perhaps rules that only apply to vehicles versus infantry models. Overall, streamlining it this way is very cool, I think and lets you have the possibility to expand and add things, and easily plug them into the existing system that you'll create.

The hard thing with small skirmish rulesets is always adoption, so I think if you're able to box it all together in an easy-to-play, almost board game format for each setting, that would be excellent for getting folks to try it out. Obviously, without a board but just meaning everything else needed to play.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/11/24 21:24:58

Post by: Necros

"easy-to-play, almost board game format for each setting" .. that's the plan

I'm putting together rules for vehicles too, even though in a 10-or-so model gang the emphasis should be on people and making each one a unique hero (or minion). So for the Mechs for example, the way those rules will work is the Mech you're driving will work more or less like a ginormous suit of armor, so it increase your character's HP and Defense stats, the current Mechadrome mechs all have a lot more health than a guy on foot in BWG for example. So the Mech makes you harder to kill if you're fighting against a guy with a laser pistol, but Mechs will all carry heavy weapons that will punch through that extra armor a lot easier. One other rule I was going to be adding to Mechadrome for drones and rookie squads is 2 or more men on foot can concentrate their fire for a strength bonus to help punch through thick armor too. But the drawback is anyone that adds their guns to your attack will lose their own activation. So they basically all shoot like a squad would, or you can still work solo too. I don't want to focus on squads too much though, I want to keep it simple where you're playing a game that's more like 2 squads fighting each other rather than a small army.

And also, those same rules could apply to a tank if you were playing a WWII setting or whatever also. The different genres will all have the same rules, and weapons will all more or less have the same stats, just different fluffy names. So each different game setting should be balanced just fine, in theory.

I've had ideas for a fantasy setting for a long time too so I plan to explore that, but I doubt I'd make fantasy minis since there's about 87 bajillion of them out there already. I'd also open it up to other mini producers to use these rules for their own game worlds as well if they like, I guess kind of like how lots of RPGs use the pathfinder rules. And all free PDFs too of course

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and also, in the core rulebook, I was planning to include optional rules for game boards / matts that use square or hex tiles. Just instead of measuring things in inches, each space will equal 1 inch. If your can move 4", you would move 4 spaces instead. It may be a pain to count up tons of spaces if you're shooting a long range gun, but should work fine for something like a dungeon crawler. Good way to use up all my old Descent tiles

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/11/25 03:45:01

Post by: Frizzenspark

It sounds very feasible; there was a set of rules published a while ago, "Big Battles For Little Hands" http://www.amazon.com/Big-Battles-For-Little-Hands/dp/188958410X in the "Blood and Swash Rules for Skirmishes", which supported a mixed genre, with minimal modification, including pirate fights, wild west bar-room brawls, and commando raids.... worth looking into if you can, but you're on the right track with this concept.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/11/25 15:39:42

Post by: Necros

Cool, yeah I figured it’s not a new idea, but I wanted to make my own I know there’s been a few generic RPG rules too like GURPS.

I’m planning to set up print on demand books for people that really want a book, but I’d like to have it be all free PDFs and possibly something like a wiki rules lookup site.. and if I can afford a programmer to do it I’d love to be able to have an online gang builder where you can build and equip your guys and it will spit out a nice looking PDF gang roster for you.. and you can save your gangs online or set up campaigns/leagues with your friends where it keeps track of your wins and losses and stuff like that. I want to keep the rules as free as possible though, and work on as much of it as I can all by myself so I can save more of my budget for new sculpts.

I think maybe what I’ll do is start off with 1 generic setting for a D&D style fantasy world that will be included in the core book, since that will better illustrate how you can have different races and armor and powers and stuff. And then have the Mechadrome and Blackwater Gulch world books separate since they will have a lot more content.

Only problem is I don’t really have that many fantasy minis. I used to, but have sold or traded a lot away over the years and my warhammer armies are just lizardmen and goblins. Though I do have all of my Descent minis and now Blood Rage too. Too bad I didn’t back any of those Reaper bones campaigns

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh.. and I just forgot I have my mantic Dungeon Saga pledge about to show up (I hope) so I guess I'll have the fantasy minis covered after all

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/11/27 05:55:21

Post by: fightcitymayor

Sounds like a great idea.
Not sure if you've ever played any of the stuff from Two Hour Wargames, but Ed does somewhat the same thing: One general combat system that he uses for multiple settings. Coincidentally, Ed just released a Weird West game ('High Moon - Dead Reckoning') that is an update to Six Gun Sound with witches & vampires & werewolves, and also has a mecha combat game ('5150 No Quarter'). As well as a pretty fun dungeon crawler ('2-Hour Dungeon Crawl).

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/11/28 14:44:21

Post by: Tiarnan

Your system is a good base for this. I used it for adding aliens recently with little difficulty. Its just a matter of balancing all the skills and gear.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/01 18:26:18

Post by: Necros

Yeah I'm hoping the new rules will make special games like that a lot easier, with universal skills and weapon stats.

Also going to have rules for ogre and giant sized models, who get extra attribute and health points, but also have a higher XP so they cost more fame. So like you could have a small gang of 3 or 4 ogre types costing about the same as a gang of 5 or 6 regular guys.. and those rules could work for big fantasy monsters, or aliens or whatever. It's basically the rules I was planning for Sasquatch who was gonna be ogre sized, and the Jersey Devil who was gonna be giant sized. But it'll be quite a while till I can get around to making those minis.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/02 15:19:43

Post by: Necros

So here’s some of the tweaks I’m working out to cover some of the things like for other races and big models.

So first I’m going to have recommended base sizes. Normal guys can be 25-32mm.. or just “less than 40mm”? Ogre sized 40-50mm bases. Giant sized 50+mm

Ogre sized models gain +1 HP and +1 Str cost +10 XP
Giants sized models gain +2 HP and +2 Str and cost +25 XP

Shields or weapons that can parry give you +1 DP. I thought about also having really large shields giving +2 DP but I’m afraid that might start to unbalance things so I’ll have to test it. A Hero with a giant shield and in heavy cover could have a DP of 7, which is kinda crazy.

Armor on the other hand does not give you any DP, instead it adds to your HP. Light armor +1 (leather), medium armor +2 (chainmail-ish) and heavy armor +3 (plate armor). BWG isn’t really going to have any armor, but it will be in Mechadrome and the fantasy rules.

Also, I’m going to be changing the rules for Super Strength, if you are attacking with a strength of 7 or higher, the target will have -1 DP. Plus Heavy Weapons will also have a -1 DP, but those will mostly just be in Mechadrome. So, a heavy weapon that can be buffed up to str 7 or higher would be -2. But, a heavy weapon can only be used once per activation.

I haven’t decided yet but I’m thinking of changing the rules for 1 handed weapons. In the new rules your stamina = how many actions you get, so if you have a stamina of 4 you could stand still and shoot 4 times for example. So what I’m thinking of doing is if you have 2 1-handed weapons, you’ll just get a +1 to your attack roll.

For fantasy races, instead of special powers I’m going to have them just get a certain attribute bonus. Humans are jacks of all trades, so they can add +1 to any attribute. Elves are wise and old so they would get +1 Intellect. A halfling is quick and nimble so they get +1 quickness. Orcs are big and tough and would get +1 str. Dwarves (dwarfs?) drink lots of beer, so they get +1 stamina.

I’m also going to do away with professions, sort of. Instead of just choosing the profession you want, their abilities will become skills and you can pick the skills you want up to your intellect level. So, in BWG, you could be a Wrassling-Gunslinging-Gambling-Doctor if you want, but you probably wouldn’t have room for any other skills that might be handy like Run & Gun or Duck & Cover.

Thats all for now, still lots to do

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/07 18:11:29

Post by: Necros

So, I’ve got the core rules more or less done. It’s mostly just a copy & paste from Blackwater Gulch with a few tweaks. So I got it all together a lot faster than I thought.

But, I’m kind of torn with a few things.. I was originally planning to include lists of universal skills and equipment, but I just decided it will be better to list all of that stuff in each setting’s book. I think it will be more fluffy that way. So I just need to do some cleanup then I’ll post the basic core rules first to see if anyone has any ideas to add, then start building up the sample fantasy rules. I’m also still waiting for my Dungeon Saga stuff to show up, I don’t really have any other fantasy minis to play with other than a few random warhammer models, so I don’t think I’ll start playtesting till I can get ahold of them.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/08 17:02:16

Post by: Necros

Another change I’ve been thinking of doing with the core rules is having a campaign system built right in. I like the idea of your characters starting out wimpy and getting tougher over time, like games like Mordheim, but I kind of worry that not everyone has a solid group to play with for a campaign system to really work. I’d like people to be able to easily play balanced pickup games too with standard characters.

So what I’m planning on now is something more along the lines of an escalation league. For a regular game, you just set your gang’s Fame level to a size you and your friends are comfortable with, maybe 400 points, and when you build your gang you can add as many characters you want and equip them how you want, up to that level. In a campaign, everyone would start a gang with something like 200 or 250 points. After each game, your gang gets more famous and you earn more points to spend adding new characters, or adding new equipment. If you have enough points, you can add a whole new guy, or just promote one of your minions to a gang member, or a gang member to a hero for less points.

So the only real difference between campaign games and regular 1-off games is points size, and campaign games would still have the aftergame phase where your out of action guys could have injuries or be killed.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/09 19:38:27

Post by: Necros

Been chatting about this again today and I think we have the format and game plan nailed down now.

We'll have the core book with everything you need to play, with appendixes in the back that have universal skills that can work for any setting, plus different weapon & equipment lists for a variety of different genres. The stats will all be similar, so it will be easy to mix genres too, like if you wanted to have cowboys fighting against martians.

Next we'll produce a separate book for our upcoming fantasy game world, and that will include unique races, skills, spells and equipment and all of the fluff and background you'd expect. I wanted to do Fantasy first because it will use more of the core rules, like there's no real armor to wear in the Blackwater Gulch, or magic spells. And the Fantasy genre has more options for having special rules for lots of different races. I don't plan to do any fantasy miniatures though, so these rules will be for use with any minis you have. We may look into doing some special characters though later on and see how it goes, but the focus will be on building a rich world and a fun & balanced system.

The next 2 books would be Blackwater Gulch and Mechadrome. Not sure which will come first, probably BWG. Mechadome will also get updated to include regular men on foot rather than being just mechs, it will be like our official sci fi ruleset building upon the more generic sci fi equipment rules that will be in the core book.

No idea when this will be ready to go though, too early to tell. I would guess at something like a playtest version around winter time, and the core book + fantasy book around summertime maybe. And then the 2nd book would probably come a few months later maybe around this time next year.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/17 18:23:13

Post by: Necros

Little update. We have the core rules just about finished now. The only thing left is to add the chapters for each setting. These will mostly just be include lists of classes/professions, special skills and weapon lists. They'll be a bit generic but designed to let you play in a variety of different settings and also mix & match if you like.

Right now I'm planning to include Medieval & Fantasy, WWII, Westerns, Pirates and Sci fi.

Then separately we'll have bigger Gameworld Books that expand upon what's in the core rules. We'll be starting with a fantasy world being written by Jonathan Peace, and then we'll also have a Blackwater Gulch and Mechadrome book later on. I want to start with fantasy because it uses more of the special new rules along with having a much broader appeal, and this new world Jonathan is making is really cool, fantasy gangfights are gonna be lots of fun You'll see soon enough.

Anyway... question I wanted to ask is... are there any other settings/genres you would like to see covered in the core rulebook?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/23 18:21:32

Post by: Necros

One thing about the new rules that was giving me some trouble at first was how to balance all of the weapons for each genre. They all worked fine in their own genres at first but not so well for crossover games, like if you wanted to have cowboys vs aliens or something similar. We still have the same weapon types & bonuses as Blackwater Gulch, such as shotguns doing +1 Strength at close range, but some bonuses are getting renamed to something that sounds more universal, and some weapon strengths are being adjusted. I’d rather handle higher-tech weapons scaling up in strength rather than coming up with all new special rules. Melee weapons work fine as is, it was more an issue for ranged weapons.

So the plan now is to have slings and bows be strength 3, with ranges increasing based on rarity & the XP cost goes up for each. Crossbows will be strength 4, except for crossbow pistols that will be strength 3. Most guns will be strength 4-5, and some of the more futuristic weapons may go as high as 6.

We’ve also got Heavy Weapons added in now. These are mostly just going to be found in sci fi rules. When attacking a vehicle like a Mech, they have Structure Points instead of Health Points. Getting hurt by a heavy weapon will remove 1 structure point, or 2 HP vs men on foot.

And also we’ve got Enchanted Weapons, mostly just in fantasy games. These will be rare so usually only a Hero would have them. When you create your character and add his weapon, you can add an enchantment to a item for +5XP. They will basically just increase one of your attributes by 1 for each enchantment you add. You can add as many as you want, but a sword that costs +50 XP will probably not be as good as adding an extra gang member for that much

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/26 18:20:04

Post by: Tiarnan

What I did in my crossover game is to use the same stats as the cowboy weapons and give them a special effect in exchange for being one level higher. For example a heat ray was just a normal rifle, but it set you on fire. A disruptor pistol was a normal pistol that couldn't be healed. Your goal is a lot loftier than mine, but it allowed them to feel high tech without having crazy high stats on the weapons, and used a minimum of special rules.

I did create a few special skills for the aliens. The one that worked best was teleport: It was just like running, but used INT and allowed you to pass through terrain.

I could dig up the .pdfs of the cards if you're interested.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2015/12/28 16:49:37

Post by: Necros

Cool, I'd love to check em out.

I was thinking of something similar though. Pretty much all of the weapons in each setting will have the same stats for balance, just some of the more high tech ones will have higher strength.

I was thinking of putting together some additional weapon builder rules for players that might want to create their own setting or game world from scratch. You'll basically start off with a few basic weapon types and then each special ability or power the weapon has will increase the XP cost a little bit

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/01 06:32:34

Post by: Tiarnan

I added a new thread with them attached.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/11 15:59:56

Post by: Necros

The core rules are just about finished. I’m going to start laying out the book soon and hope to have the first playtest version ready to go probably late this month or early next month. What we decided to do is not include different chapters for each genre since there are so many different genres out there to choose from. Instead we have universal skills and equipment and stuff like that, so it’s easy to pick the weapons you need for the setting you want to play, or even adapt them to use minis from other games like Warmachine or 40k. And then we’ll also have the separate books for different game worlds that we create that will include more unique stuff. I also have an all new news & info site that I'll be launching to support the new rules, skirmishgames.com. That's not built yet, but I plan to start on that later this month.

Right now I still do have professions & classes, but I’ve been wondering if I should just drop them and have them all be skills instead? We’ve moved attribute bonuses to be based on races, and humans are jacks of all trades so they get +1 to any attribute of your choice. So since I was going to drop the attribute bonuses that professions get, I figured without that bonus they’re just skills anyway.

I’ve been getting price quotes from a lot of different printers and I think I’d finally found one that I want to go with. I found it interesting that softcover books are only slightly cheaper than hardcover.. like there would just be a $3-5 difference to the retail price, so may as well just go with nice hardback books. I’m expecting each book to be in the $15-20 range for 80+ pages (compared to an 80 page GW codex that costs $40 :p), and $20-25 range for up to around 120 pages.

So I decided rather than print on demand, since the prices are so good and only get better the more copies you print, I’m going to do a Kickstarter and try to get the nice hardback books printed. That will probably not be till late spring or summer though. And then, if it ends up not working out, we still have Wargame Vault to fall back on if the campaign doesn’t fund. Not gonna do any minis though, the campaign will just be for the books. They will be full size 8.5x11” books rather than the half/digest size ones I’ve been doing till now, that was mostly to keep those print on demand costs down.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/12 19:49:02

Post by: Necros

Got some new artwork for the fantasy book today. Here’s a Dwarf Warrior, Human Warrior, Orc Warrior and Orc Shaman

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/12 22:47:28

Post by: RiTides

I like the art! Is the idea, you'll use this to illustrate the rules system?

The only problem I see is, if using this as a base, it doesn't match up with the existing lines you've launched - but I can see it being useful on its own. And I do really like the artwork

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/13 00:17:22

Post by: Necros

It's the same artist Wayne O'Connor. But yeah it's going to go in the new fantasy book. In the end I'll probably have a few different artists. Gonna need a lot of art, I'm aiming for around 80 pages per book, so that's 160 between the core rulebook and fantasy book. But there will also be lots of diagrams and things like sample rosters that will help fill the space too

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/16 02:10:23

Post by: enfield

Really looking forward to this game. I look forward to fantasy and steampunk (warmachine/hordes models)
I am just really looking forward to it!

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/18 15:09:12

Post by: Necros

Working on it I just have to add all of the equipment now, and a list of basic magic spells for fantasy games. For melee weapons, I'm just going to list them as "1 handed melee weapon" or 2 handed, and then have a list of common items for each type. Doesn't make sense to fill up the book with a bunch of weapon info tables that are going to have the same exact stats. But the separate Gameworld books will have more unique items listed separately like "Vorpal Longsword of Demon Slaying" or whatever

I'm hoping to have the first playtest version of the core rules ready to go in a couple of weeks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also.. what I’m thinking of doing now is keeping the core rules in the same small format book I’ve always done. All of the rules I have minus the equipment lists comes out to a whole 30 pages. I don’t think it’s worth adding tons of filler to make a big hardback book, I’d rather spend my art budget making the gameworld books awesome. So I think it will be better to keep the core book short and sweet (and cheap), and have the Gameworld books be the nice hardback books with lots of great art, and have separate small Kickstarters for each gameworld book. That will also keep the funding goals lower.

I’m getting a printing quote for the smaller format book for the rules, I’m hoping it will be cheap enough to offer that as a freebie item if you get the hardback book in the campaign if all goes well. And the rules will be free online as usual. I would just have to add that printing cost to the funding goal to cover it.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/18 18:02:51

Post by: RiTides

Ah, now that I Really like - having the rules in a core book, and the gameworld books separate. Very nice and should make the core book extremely versatile.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/19 15:14:14

Post by: Necros

Yeah I think this way will work much better, keeping the rules simple and cheap.

I reformatted the book last night to the 8.5x5.5 digest size, and it's at 43 pages. I think with the weapons, spells and diagrams added in it will probably be around 60 in the end. I don't know what would be better though... half sized book around 60 pages, or full sized book around 30 pages? I'm thinking half sized is good for transporting, but the hardback Gameworld books are all going to be full sized. So maybe the full size 8.5x11 rulebook would "match" better? It would just be less pages and probably have stitched/stapled binding. Guess I'll have to see what the printer quotes are like.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/22 14:51:20

Post by: Necros

Some other new ideas going on. I decided to remove the lengthy character creation section I had in the core book, and instead what we’re going to do is have the stats and equipment and everything already set for a whole lot of different types of characters.. like an Elven Warrior or Martian Soldier. There will be a whole bunch for a few different genres. The stats will all be listed out kind of similar to your usual GW 40k codex, but I will also have printable card PDFs for folks that like that sort of thing too. I think by having premade character types it will be much easier to balance for pickup games. I’ll still have the custom character rules, but they will be more like an optional thing, along with weapon listings.

I was thinking about maybe doing decks of printed cards, I like having nice and sturdy cards to play with. But I don’t know if that will work so well since if someone wants to have 3 or 4 of the same type of character then they will need multiple decks and end up with a bunch of other cards they never use. So I figured the printable PDFs would be better for that, and also allow me to keep adding all new character types later on.

I’d also really love to be able to make an online gang builder site or tablet/phone app, but I don’t even know where to begin. I could handle the design part since that’s what I do for my day job, but no idea about the programming to make it work or how to find someone to do it. But I thought if I could find a company that can build that, I could figure out the costs and add it as a stretch goal in the Kickstarter maybe.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/25 16:16:52

Post by: Necros

Got some more fantasy character artwork. Here’s a Halfling, High Elf and Dark Elf This will be it for a little while. Gonna wait till I get all of the background and fluff some time next month and then I’ll see what we need to do next. Still working on the rules in the meantime.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/25 17:45:06

Post by: JP1138

I sat down at the computer today to start putting all my handwritten notes into some semblance of order. Shouldn't be much longer now till I have the first draft of the fantasy supplement written.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/29 14:45:34

Post by: Necros

Some more things I've decided to do with the overall format.

I'm still working on the core book, I'm going to stop giving date or time estimates other than "soon" because I'm always wrong But it's coming along. So I'll have the playtest version done soon. This book will have everything you need to play any setting and create your own gang and characters from scratch. In the end the final version will be a free PDF and print-on-demand book on Wargame Vault. It will be kind of bare bones and functional, the goal is to make it as inexpensive as possible if you want the printed book.

For the Gameworld books, rather than being a sourcebook that requires the small-ish core book, we'll be copying and pasting the full rules into each gameworld book.. those will be the nice hardback books with lots of art and photos and all. I decided that from a "usability" standpoint it will be a lot more convenient to have all of the rules and everything you need for each game world all in 1 book. The gameworld books will also have tons of pre-made character types and special campaign rules and all that fun stuff. So the actual game rules will be the same in each book, but since they don't take up a whole lot of space I figured it would be better to just include them in each book so players don't have to feel like they need to carry around lots of different books. Plus, I think having everything in 1 book makes it more retail friendly.

So you can use the free core rulebook for a "lite" version of each setting and get a taste of what the game is like, or get the bigger hardback books to have a full game with all the bells & whistles.

I know i said I don't want to give dates anymore, but I'm hoping to do the Kickstarter for just the fantasy book, Lair of the Wurmqueen, around April or May. It will be a simple campaign just to fund the printing, with a couple of cool add-ons, but no miniatures or anything since the idea is I want players to feel free to use any miniatures they want.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/01/30 04:37:20

Post by: Necros

Here's a quick screenshot of a 2 page spread from the equipment section of the core book. I'm consolidating a lot of the info because I don't think we really need to list out each and every type of armor or sword if the stats are going to be exactly the same. Guns and ranged weapons will be much more varied though.. and in the fantasy book I do plan to list them out more separately, hopefully with art too. But like I said, I want to keep the core book short & sweet & cheap

You can click to enlarge if it's too tough to read

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/03 15:56:30

Post by: Necros

So here’s a little something else I’m working on. We’re going to have Consumable Items added to the game, these will be things like potions or scrolls for fantasy games. They’re items you can use and then they’re gone. Most of them just cost 5 XP to add to your character. What I’m thinking of doing with them is instead of having it be an item you add to your character permanently on the character sheet or card, I was going to make printable mini-cards. Before your game you can add these items to members of your gang as long as you don’t go over the fame point level for the game you’re playing. So like if your gang is 385 points, and you’re playing a 400 point game, then you can add up to 3 potions. You’ll have to assign them to a gang member to carry though, so that’s why I thought mini cards would be good. You can keep the mini card with your character info and then just discard it when you use it.

I haven’t decided yet… but would it be good to have thrown items the same way? Like, once you toss a stick of dynamite, you can’t really toss it again. Right now you would just add dynamite to your character and treat it like any other weapon with unlimited ammo. Kind of feels like once you throw it, it should be gone, but that could change how a bunch of BWG characters are played right now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And also, after flip flopping 18 different times I finally decided to keep the core rules as a full size book (8.5x11), since i think it will work best for PDFs and POD, and since the hardback gameworld rulebooks will be that size too.

I've also decided that rather than having one huge list of equipment for all genres mixed together, I'm going to have separate chapters for each genre with appropriate equipment sections in each one. I think it'll be easier and more user friendly that way.

I think what I may do is start off with just the fantasy-lite rules, and then get the playtest version out with that.. then add new settings to the book over time as I get all of the other special rules worked out.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/04 01:40:03

Post by: RiTides

I like the idea of full size so good decision there!

Regarding thrown weapons, I could see someone carrying around a few sticks of dynamite, or a few knives... so whatever works best from a gameplay perspective, imo.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/04 17:23:48

Post by: Necros

Yeah maybe I’m overthinking the thrown weapons a bit

Been kind of wondering about another project.. rather than rolled up game mats, maybe doing something like printed 12” square board tiles on thick cardstock. having them set up like a road system (or dungeon corridors?) where the roads always match up in the center parts of the tiles, and you can lay them out in a variety of ways. Then you can stick your buildings and other terrain on top. Thought something like that would be more flexible and also easier to pack up and transport than a rolled up game mat.

A little worried about the costs though. It would need a lot of variety and when I did those Bad Lands tiles they were $100 per side. No idea how much it would cost to print, but I’d need to do at least 1500 copies. Just not sure something like that would sell well enough to print that many…? Maybe I could do them in a smaller pack of 6 tiles that will hopefully be cheaper and that way folks that want bigger boards could buy 2 or more.. and suddenly 1500 might not be so bad.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/07 14:43:27

Post by: IChexI

What if for thrown weapons or weapons with limited amounts of ammunition you made it so there were so many uses available for each game and the model rearms in the post game phase when they return back to base? Another option would be to have the model make an ammunition test or something similar every time one of these weapons are used to see if they still have any left to use, similar to the ammunition tests in Necromunda.

Any thoughts on random turn activation? For instance having players draw tokens from a bag, or flipping cards corresponding to their faction to determine who gets to activate a model next, kind of like how turns go in Bolt Action. Keeps players on their toes, gives players with a higher model count an advantage throughout the turn as opposed to just at the end, and breaks up the 'I go, you go" gameplay.

Really looking forward to these rules coming out. =]

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/09 03:55:21

Post by: Necros

Yeah maybe I could have certain amounts for some items.. like you could carry 3 ninja stars, but just 1 bottle of booze since it's bigger?

Working on getting the character profiles laid out. I decided to give each race a base stat line that will be like for a common townsfolk kind of guy, and then you can increase your stats if you're a gang member or hero.

Here's another 2 page spread You can click to enlarge. I'm planning to do 1 race per page for the core rules, but in the actual fantasy book it will be more like 1 whole class per page with bios and art and stuff. Everything is condensed here to save space/pages.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/09 12:33:08

Post by: Tiarnan

I'm not a fan of ammo rules. If someone's used to fighting with thrown items where you'd put it on the character card, then they ought to carry enough to last a while fight. Are ninja stars so powerful that we would need to track them individually? Even dynamite you'd carry enough to be useful.

I can see having weapons in singles on a card if they are scenario items that can be picked up, but part of what I love about this game is the lack of statuses to track.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/09 20:41:26

Post by: Necros

True, I definitely don't want to overcomplicate things.

As far as cards for items go, I always liked that idea for an adventure game kind of thing, but when it comes to war games I feel like a roster or army list is more convenient, or stat cards like Warmachine. Depending on how things go, I might want to look into doing an RPG kind of supplement later on, but first I want to focus on getting the game done and start releasing the different Gameworld books. I'm planning 4 at the moment, and I'm thinking they will probably take about 6 months to do each book and make them nice.

So right now I'm planning the fantasy game first, Lair of the Wurmqueen. Then a Blackwater Gulch book, followed by Mechadrome, and the 4th will be a victorian steampunk kind of world. But, it will take a while to do each one... I want to focus on one at a time rather than spreading myself too thin.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/10 16:33:34

Post by: Necros

Minor tweak.. I realized I made a mistake with the character naming conventions. There are no more "Gang Members" as the mid-range level type, we renamed that to Henchmen.. not to be confused with the old wimpy henchman we did away with in BWG. So the 3 levels your characters can be are Heroes, Henchmen and Minions

You need 1 Hero to lead your gang, and you can add 1 additional hero for every 300 XP points spent on your gang (rather than the old method based on model count). They're the toughest and are allowed to use rare / enchanted weapons.

You can have any amount of Henchmen or Minions. Henchmen are tougher, but cost more XP, but they will have more skills and abilities. Minions are wimpier, but cheaper.. they have limited skills but you can take more of them. Minions are mostly townsfolk or animal/creature pets.

And we still have Artillery, but that is going to be treated more like equipment.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/12 15:24:05

Post by: Necros

Looks like I should have the core rules ready to share this weekend. All I really need to do right now is build a roster sheet for building your characters & gangs. What I decided to do is start out with the rules for building your characters from scratch, since that will be the most flexible, rather than including lots of premade characters. That’s the part that’s been holding things up so much. This way I can get the rules out there, and then add characters later on in separate little downloads for different genres.

So I’ll post a link here once it’s ready, but I’m going to wait to spread the news around the web till I get the new website up and running. That will be next on my list. What I’m really hoping to do with that is have a blog style news site as the main “hub” for the game, with news about where to get cool new models and link worthwhile KS campaigns and that sort of thing, but also do articles about gang building, or painting, and a big download area for all of the rules and character cards and stuff like that.. and eventually integrating an online store so it’s all under 1 roof rather than the separate store site I have now. It will take a long time to do all of that though, and to build up a lot of content & news, so the site will probably be a little sparse for a while.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/12 20:49:21

Post by: IChexI

That's awesome news. Looking forward to trying them out

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/13 03:37:20

Post by: Necros

OK, here are the rules


Like I said it's pretty texty at the moment, I'll be expanding things and adding pictures and diagrams and more content over the next few weeks and months, but this should be all you need to get started and get some games going

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/18 02:20:42

Post by: Necros

Working on the new site now - http://www.skirmishgames.com/

I haven't added any news yet, but eventually I'll be posting news and links to sources for different models that will work well with the games, plus articles about gang building and stuff like that.

Right now I'm focusing on the rules section, planning to have all of the rules available right there on the site for easy reference, plus in PDF form, so here's that .. http://www.skirmishgames.com/rules/

Once I start doing the separate gameworld books I'll also add them to the rules section, but it will kind of be a lite version.. you can get the basics but for the full game you'll want the books that will have all of the background and art and special campaigns and other goodies

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/18 16:36:57

Post by: IChexI

Looks good. Friends and I are gonna throw down a few games next weekend.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/19 13:03:43

Post by: bbb

Seems like a good idea. One thing you have over other generic skirmish game systems is established settings and miniatures.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/19 16:00:39

Post by: Necros

Yeah But for what it's worth I'm mostly just going to be doing new minis for Blackwater Gulch at the moment, not Fantasy or other genres. I'd spread myself way too thin if I were to start doing every genre, and I'd end up with just a handful of different minis mixed in rather than a proper product line with several different gangs or factions.

So that's why I'm going to be illustrating how players can use whatever minis they want. Planning to do regular blog articles with gang building guides where you can use a handful minis from big army games to form a gang. I think I may do my Stormcast army for the first example. Or Khador since I have a winter guard themed army, more men than warjacks.

Though since I'll be getting a lot of art done, I'll have plenty of concepts ready to go for later if I ever do decide to make new minis for Fantasy and other genres. I have been thinking about maybe just doing special, unique hero character minis that you can mix in with other minis.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/21 09:47:41

Post by: Funbread

first excuse my not so perfect English. I try to get better, promissed ☺)
I played GW games for years before I found out, that there is a whole world full of different skirmish games on the market.
So I tried many of them too and have not yet found a real favorite. When I stumbled over BWG I really liked it because it is what Savage worlds showdown promisses, its fast fun and furious.
Now I'm really into the idea to get an generic rule system.
So pleas go on
But there are two things that could be fixed. First the way how far you can move (run). If you look on the paladin profile, that guy could activate 5 times to move 4' (=20'!), which is way to much in my eyes. And second if you want to use mounts and vehicles, then tehy shold have a move rangeby themselves.
It doesn't make sense, when a horse becomes slow, becaus a tiny little slow halfling is riding it.

And if you jump it always is successful.

So far my thoughts. Thanks for the work you do and for sharing it for free! If you start to sell the books (and the postage to Germany is affordable) you got a customer already

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/21 14:35:01

Post by: Necros

Thanks for the feedback One of the reasons for the movement change was to make the character attributes more valuable. I felt that just moving 6" and then running 6" more was also too basic and I wanted different characters to be faster or slower.

How about having a maximum movement distance? No character can move more than 12" on foot, or 18" on a horse?

For horses, I didn't want them to have their own stats like they do in Warhammer because I was afraid it would slow the game down. So that is why I was kind of treating them like equipment. Since you can't get off or on a horse in the middle of a game, I didn't feel like they should have their own stats. But it's still not too late to change it.

For the fantasy games, there are going to be a lot of different mounts, like a Pegasus, or big lizards like Cold Ones. Some will have other special abilities, but they will also cost more XP to ride

I wish shipping didn't always have to be so expensive. I am using a shipping company that has warehouses in Europe so hopefully it won't be too bad

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/21 16:09:53

Post by: Funbread

Sure, a maximum movement distance would be an easy way to keep people from running everywhere in one turn.

But since you are not allowed to dismount in the middle of the game (sad to hear that - cowboys hop on and of in the most exciting cinematic moments) it would be easy to overwrite the caracters quickness with the quickness of the mount instead of modifying it.
Then a rider on a horse is allways as quick as all other horse riders.
But still there should be a chance to test if your jump is successful or if you'll fall down.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/21 21:27:52

Post by: Necros

The reason I didn't want to include mounting and dismounting was that I was afraid that it slows down the game, and then also you have to make sure that you have a miniature for your guy on foot and on the horse. And then, what happens do the horse when you get off? Does he just stand there and wait for you to come back, or wander off?

I imagine 1 game turn lasting for about 1 minute of real time if it was happening in the real world, so most gangfights would just really be a few minutes long.. it seemed like it would be strange to get hop off your horse 1 minute, then get back on the next, and then off again. Maybe I am over-thinking it

I have been thinking about removing the rules for vehicles though, that the focus should be on men and having tanks and other vehicles just takes away from that. I mostly wanted to have them for Mechadrome, but I think the new armor, mount and model size rules will work well enough for them.. mechs will just have a lot more health and that makes them tougher to take out.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/22 12:12:24

Post by: Funbread

Oh no - please don't scrap the vehicle rules...

I did some games with savage worlds Showdown rules. And there where just two things I really didn't like. The first (and main reason) it's to hard to create characters and compare them (Points are calculated in a ugly and hard to use Excel spreadsheet). Second was to many different dice.

So I was excited when I saw you making my dream come true. An easy to use system with caractercreation for different timelines and vehicles...

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/22 14:18:50

Post by: Necros

OK I can keep them I was just thinking that they won't really be used in the fantasy game so I probably won't really get around to playtesting them properly .. I was mostly planning to use them for Mechadrome's mechs, but I don't think I'll be updating those rules for a while. The plan is to do the fantasy gameworld first, then update Blackwater Gulch next, and then Mechadrome for #3. So realistically that will probably be a year or so from now. But I'll put together some sample car & mech stats for folks to try out

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/22 20:44:13

Post by: Funbread

Cool, thanx. I'll try to set up some pirates in my next vacations (it's getting too busy at work) and thinking of some pulp or al capone games. Therefore the car rules come in handy.
But I'll have to wait until March to get some playtime

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/23 00:49:56

Post by: bbb

Will you be trying to keep the point values consistent between settings?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/23 00:57:16

Post by: Necros

Yep! All genres have the same exact character creation rules, it's just a matter of which races you want to play with or equipment you use. so, some characters may cost more points if they have more powerful weapons, but that's about it. So far in all my tests it's all scaling up nicely.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/23 02:04:22

Post by: CptJake

 Necros wrote:
The reason I didn't want to include mounting and dismounting was that I was afraid that it slows down the game, and then also you have to make sure that you have a miniature for your guy on foot and on the horse.

Like this?

 Necros wrote:
And then, what happens do the horse when you get off? Does he just stand there and wait for you to come back, or wander off?

If they are like my horses, if they hear a loud noise, or see something that may taste good, or just feel ornery, they haul ass and refuse to be caught again. (just kidding, only 2 of the 7 are pains in the ass to catch, of course one of those IS the horse that I ride... )

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/23 02:45:30

Post by: Necros

Yeah just like that

What I think I'm going to do is have the rule be something like .. Characters must stay mounted for the entire game, unless you have a suitable model to represent the character on foot.

But then, if you get off, it will leave and not come back?

Could also have rules where you can steal horses from stables and stuff like that too.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/23 14:55:28

Post by: Necros

Been thinking about this more.. Maybe it might be better to have an "experimental rules" section on the website, and that's where I can put the rules for vehicles and other things that I want to include but haven't been able to test yet. that way players can try them out and see what they think and (hopefully) tell me about it

Since I'm starting off with the Fantasy gameworld I want to focus more on fantasy things at the moment.. and get that all done and balanced and fun, and then move onto the next genre when I'm happy with it

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/23 21:57:32

Post by: RiTides

I like the idea of an "experimental" section on the site, maybe with an easy way to submit feedback on those since you're still tweaking them.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/24 04:36:26

Post by: Necros

Cool .. just updated the rules .. I moved Mounts to be under the special equipment rules since they are kinda like equipment. I'll rewrite the vehicle rules and put that under an experimental rules section. Since the whole site is running off of Wordpress, I can turn comments on for that page, so folks can leave feedback if they want

First though I want to get the races and stats defined for Horror themed characters like zombies and demons and stuff. Between that and Fantasy we should have the majority of the special character rules defined so you could mix & match to make your own game settings if you want... like modern day zombie, fests or not-wfb khorne vs not-wfb elves

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/25 05:45:35

Post by: Necros

Added the Undead races


The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/28 10:47:19

Post by: Funbread


I tried to build some pulp charcters. As main profiles for little toolbots I used the base from dwarfs and for the bigger defensebots the base from orks. It worked out really good and the games seemed to be well ballanced. But there is one thing I didn't understand clearly. Do I have to add the hero / henchman stats (HP DP & XP) to the base values of the race or replace them?
I like the idea to represent the damage dealt to the armor by adding the armor value to the health points, but armor becomes to powerful if more than 1 point is added. Maybe heavy armor could add 1 HP and 1 DP instead?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/28 17:03:38

Post by: Necros

Yes, what you have to do is start off with the stats for one of the races already listed, and then you can add +4 points for Henchmen or +8 points for Heroes.

I haven't decided yet, but I have been thinking of lowering that amount to +2 for Henchmen and +4 for Heroes. The stats will be lower, but I think it will make people choose their attributes more wisely

I have been thinking about armor and shields, I didn't want to allow people to raise Defence too high, because then it might be too difficult to wound your enemies. So at best you can get +1 DP for a shield, and also +1 DP from a skill.

So I liked the idea of armor raising HP to represent them being tougher to kill. I don't think armor can be as simple as Shileds though because there are so many different types of armor.

How about incrasing the XP cost for armor? I could double the cost, so light armor would be +10 XP, medium 20 and heavy 30? Then if you end up using a lot of heavily armored men, you could be outnumbered easily and your opponent has more chances to attack you and negate all the extra HP that armor gives you?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/28 20:16:08

Post by: Funbread

Yes, increasing the xp for armor sounds good. This represents the fact, that heavy armor is really expensive and just a few members can afford it. Cool! I would not lower the points to spend but maybe the number of skills to use. What about 1 skill per 2 points of intellect?

But you misunderstood my question. If I set up a human caracter as a hero, do i use (before I spent any points) the 2 HP from the race and add the 4 HP from getting a hero to result in 6 HP or do I replace the 2 by 4?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/28 21:02:15

Post by: Necros

Looks like I forgot to add that part to the rules! Basically what you do is select your race, and those are the stats for a Minion or average person for that race.

For a Henchman they will get +2 HP (total of 4), +1 Str (total of 2) and + 25 XP (Total 50).

A Hero would be +4 HP (total 6), +2 DP (total 3) and +50 XP (total 75)

Hope that makes sense. I'll update the rules on the web shortly

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/29 13:38:08

Post by: Funbread

It's me again
What do you think of a skill that let's a model that has not been activated during this turn interupt (or test/try to interupt) the actual model? Like a sniper (or camper ) waiting for someone to walk in his line of fire. Then the model would count as activated.

Could work in a fantasy setting to. (City guards with crossbows on the watchtowers... )

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/29 14:33:38

Post by: Necros

Hmm, like Overwatch? It could be done as an action.. you activate someone and put them on overwatch and then they can shoot later in the turn if someone moves into view?

The only thing is I think it would be too unbalanced if they had high stamina and could make a lot of shots .. so maybe it could be changed where you must have at least 1 free action left in your turn to save it for later, so you can still move into position and set yourself up. But for any extra unused action, you can add +1D6 to your shot? So if you have a stamina of 4, you could move once, go on overwatch for your next action.. and since you have 2 actions left you would get +2D6 to hit when you shoot?

Or does that complicate things too much and you should just be able to shoot as many times as you have stamina left? I just don't want it to turn into a game where everyone just stays on overwatch and never moves

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/02/29 15:11:04

Post by: Funbread

To keep it simple, you could go on overwatch if you have at least 1 unused action. Then if you want to use it, I would allow only one shot +1d6 for aiming. All other unspent actions (if there are some leftover) are gone.

And maybe it should really become a skill to prevent the situation, that nobody moves ever. And it would reflekt the specific training as a watchman.

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Or if not a skill, the watchman would have to do a intellect test. If not successful he just doesn't notice his enemy.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/01 16:04:31

Post by: Necros

Planning to do an update tonight, I'll add the Overwatch skill .. save your last action to shoot at a target that moves into view. You can take your shot after they finish a Movement action, and if they're still alive after you shoot then they can finish the rest of their activation afterwards.

Also going to add Careful Planning, save your last action to use in the following game turn instead, giving you +1 action next turn. I think that will be useful early in the game where you might reach your movement max and have no one to shoot at yet.

I think I'm also going to change around the undead and demon races and just go for 1 Horror chapter listing Skeletons, Zombies, Vampires, Demons and Werebeasts. Then things like ghouls or wights won't be like a separate race, but instead I'll use those names for different character profiles when I get around to adding them.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/03 04:15:22

Post by: Necros

I've updated the skills and added Overwatch and Planner, also renamed Leader to Inspiring.. and I shortened a lot of the text so it's shorter and sweeter.

Also got some other feedback from some testers and decided to change jumping and tackling. Now, you can jump across a gap as a special move action, but you can only move half of your quickness when you jump. If you move more than 6" first and you're running, then you can jump your full quickness.

For tacking, I changed that to where you can just drop down and if you land in an enemy's personal space you'll have +1 Strength in your next melee attack against them.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/03 16:37:10

Post by: Necros

As far as presentation goes, I think I’m going to change things up with the settings a bit. I was trying to keep things more open ended and less redundant, but I think it will work better if each setting is in it’s own self-contained PDF and section on the web rules. Even though some things like races will be shared among different settings (you can use fantasy elf stats if you want to make space elves in sci fi games for example).

So I’m just going to update the Fantasy chapter to include all races, including the horror ones. Plus more comprehensive weapon listings, spells, special skills, etc. That way all of the fantasy rules will be in 1 place. Then when I do some other settings, I can just copy and paste the same rules over to there.

I was trying to avoid repeating a lot of the same info, but I think in this case it will be a lot more efficient for people, they will have all of the special rules they need for the games they want to play all in 1 place.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/04 17:42:41

Post by: Necros

Next on my list... I have been giving the racial stats a lot more thought and I’m planning to change them around a bit more.. We have our list of "mortal" races now, so instead of creating all new stat lines for each type of undead character, I’m going to start with the mortal version and add a + & - modifier to each one. This will allow us to have Zombie Elves, Skeletal Dwarves and even Orcish Vampires. I will still have all of the attributes for each listed in the rules for easy reference, but what I am planning on doing is having the changes be like this:

Zombie: -1 Quickness, +1 Strength
Skeletal: -1 Intellect, +1 Quickness
Vampiric: -1 Strength, +1 Intellect

Once I have the stats worked out for minion creatures like Dire Wolves or Baby Dragons, you’ll be able to apply those same modifiers to create a lot of different kinds of undead critters. I’m also going to set them up like two separate factions, Mortal and Undead.

Demons will be a 3rd faction, they get the same attributes allowing any mortal to be possessed by them, but they must select a demonic gift, so they will generally cost more XP than mortals.

You normally can’t mix races from different factions together, but there will be new special skills added that your Gang Leader can learn to allow him to recruit members form other factions.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/07 14:29:50

Post by: Necros

So I take that back. I decided I don’t like the idea of a halfling vampire. What I decided to do was keep the 3 primary undead races.. skeletons, zombies and vampires. And then add in a generic undead stat line for all of the mortal races. So there’s just “undead dwarf” or “undead orc”. Doing the same thing with demons, there’s Minor Demons, Greater Demons and Arch Demons, and then possessed mortals. I just wanted to have a lot of the bases covered since there is such a huge variety of fantasy miniatures out there in the world.

I’m planning to post a big update to the rules and finish up the fantasy supplement this week. I just need to add the equipment and I want to make character cards using all of the fantasy character art I had done. After that I’ll probably start announcing it around the web.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/07 19:18:50

Post by: Funbread

Great news! I think I'll have to activate my fantasy minis again ☺
Pirates could fit in a fantasy setting too - maybe. This could be a way to play my undead pirates.
So far all the pulp test games we played seemed to be very balanced.

So I can't wait fot the printed version of the rules.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/09 17:54:12

Post by: Necros

Another thing I neglected to add in the last version was a how to win the game page. I guess it’s kind of obvious that you’ll win if you wipe out the other gang, but I wanted to add an optional turn limit and objectives. So, you can just play to the death if you want, or have your game last for 6 full turns. You’ll get victory points for each kill you get, and also for picking up objectives scattered around the board.

In regular games the objectives will be worth extra victory points, but in the big fantasy book these objectives will usually be treasure chests or other sort of loot cache where you might find a cool weapons or magic items that your models can use during the game. There will be a chart that you can roll on to see what you find, and I was also thinking of having an optional loot deck done too, so you can just draw cards instead.

Then in campaigns, after your game you can sell your loot to get extra XP to add to your gang’s fame limit, or keep the items and add to your character permanently for the next game.

So now that that’s added i’m going to be putting together those sample character cards then I should be all set for the fantasy rules, later this week or early next week.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/10 16:30:06

Post by: Necros

As usual, it's taking longer than I hoped. Too much new TV this week But I'm almost there. I've done some tweaks to some skills and added some extra bonus fantasy skills. I removed the Hunter universal skill, I'm going to make themed versions in each setting's rules. Or would it be better to have them all in the universal skills page so it's all in 1 place?

So some of the ones I added are..

Bounty Hunter - +1D6 to hit vs mortals

Templar - +1D6 to hit vs undead

Inquisitor - +1D6 to hit vs demons

Witch Hunter - +1D6 to hit vs mages

Necromancer - If your mortal gang leader has this, he may recruit undead minions and henchmen

Cultist - If your mortal gang leader has this, he may recruit demonic minions and henchmen

Beguiling - If your demon leader has this, he may recruit mortal minions and henchmen

And I want to do one like the above for undead to recruit mortals, but I can't think of a good name for it.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/14 20:08:44

Post by: Funbread

What would you think of Dark (or Undead) Archon?
On the other hand, vampires would have human henchman also...

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/16 15:09:32

Post by: Necros

I went with Compel for the name of the skill where undeads can have mortals in their gangs. Like where a vampire could compel you to do whatever they say.

I'm just about done. Well, the PDF is done. I just have to finish those character cards, and then I also want to start with a special blog post talking you through building a gang using a few minis so I have to take some photos for that. I hope to have it all done around friday, or else some time this weekend, then I'm going to start advertising the new site around the web next week.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/03/19 01:23:58

Post by: Necros

Got the new PDF rules done Here is is:

Lots of changes, just about everything I mentioned since the last update. One other thing I just changed is how terrain and cover works a bit. There is no more heavy cover, just being "in cover" gives you a +1 Defense against ranged attacks. You can be inside area terrain, or behind an obstacle. Also, part of the obstacle has to be in your model's personal space in order to get the cover bonus from it. I had lots of questions from folks about when something counts as cover and when it doesn't, so I think this should make it a bit easier.

I also added a whole new page on how to win the game, which I forgot to add before. The easiest way to win is to wipe out the other gang, but there's added rules for having a set turn limit and adding objectives for you to collect.

Next I'll be finishing up those character cards and I'll get them posted tomorrow or Sunday.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and also, I'm going to remove the web-based rules pages for now. It will take a while to update them so the PDF is the most current for now

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/03 16:42:25

Post by: AegisGrimm

Just downloaded and read the rules and I really like them! Good job! While I always loved games like Necromunda and Gorkamorka, I have also been a great fan of generic fantasy skirmish wargames.

Hope to go through my fantasy collection and get together a couple warbands to give the fantasy rules a try.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/03 16:52:53

Post by: Necros

Cool, let me know how it goes I'm going to be adding more to the fantasy rules soon too.. I was going to add a beast faction similar to Blakwater Gulch's beasts, for lycanthropes or players that just like the whole animals as people thing, and I'm also putting together the campaign rules and should have them ready in a little while.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/03 23:33:43

Post by: AegisGrimm

Have a quick question about creating Heroes and Henchmen. Under making them, the rules state this:

Start with the base Attributes listed for your race. Heroes will gain +4 Health, +2 Defense, +50 XP and you may also spend 8 points to spend raising Strength, Quickness, Stamina, Intellect, Ranged Combat and Melee Combat. Henchmen gain +2 Health, +1 Defense, +25 XP and 4 points to spend raising attributes.

I get how they are otherwise get their attributes raised above the racial norm, but can you use each type of fighter's points (+8 for hero, +4 for henchman) to raise either their health or defense over the bonuses they already get, or just for ONLY the other attributes mentioned (Strength, Quickness, Stamina, Intellect, Ranged Combat and Melee Combat)?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/03 23:50:29

Post by: Necros

Yep, you can only use the points to raise Strength, Stamina, Quickness, Intellect, Melee and Ranged combat. You can increase Health and Defense with skills or equipment

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 00:25:48

Post by: AegisGrimm

Great. Thought so but best to make sure. Thanks. Now off to get a handful of Skaven stormvermin and a grey seer painted to finish off a long-languishing warband.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 01:55:37

Post by: Necros

Cool, I'm planning to put together a Stormcast guild once I get more if em painted. Gonna be a lot of XP for them though, since they are all large models in heavy armor.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 14:04:43

Post by: Necros

Thinking aloud (as usual) .. I have some new ideas for minis and KS campaigns. First, instead of going with a full printed rulebook for each gameworld where I need to order 1000’s of copies (well, 1500 minimum) .. I worry about those costs cranking up a KS funding goal really high. The minimum amount of books would be around an $8000 funding goal, not including minis.

I’m starting to think now that maybe it would be better off at this point to keep it all online… a PDF version, maybe a more interactive apple iBook version like GW does, and a print on demand copy through Wargame Vault. Mostly because I don’t want to create a KS campaign with a really high goal, minis campaigns aren’t doing as well as they used to these days. I’d rather keep my costs way down and allow me to focus funds more on the miniatures. Then see how things go and consider the real printed books later, once there’s a line of minis to support the gameworld?

So that brings me to the minis. I have decided to go ahead and do my own miniautres for Lair of the Wurmqueen rather than just telling people to use stuff from other games (you still can if you want to though). There will still be generic fantasy rules for that, but the primary villain in the game is a kind of unique race of gorgon/medusa types, so it would be good to have minis for them, and other more unique guilds in the game.

Rather than doing a campaign with a bunch of different starter sets to choose from, what I think I might want to do instead is have a bunch of smaller campaigns just based on 1 race or faction. So, we would start with a campaign to fund the Wurmqueen’s followers, ship those out and then jump right into the next one for the next guild. Each campaign would have a finite amount of models & stretch goals, maybe 10 minis max. If things go well enough I might be able to do later guilds without needing to kickstart them.

At first I was thinking it would be better to do 3-4 different guild’s starter sets + a printed rulebook as a bigger campaign, but like I said I worry about the way campaigns have been going nowadays. Maybe after i can get 4 full factions together, maybe that can lead into the real printed book?

Anyway, that’s where I’m at now. I have Wayne starting on some concept art for the Wurms, so I hope to have that soon and will show it off when I get it

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 15:32:57

Post by: bbb

I like the idea of keeping it manageable and straightforward. You have a proven Kickstarter record and you know where you want to go, but don't put yourself in a position where you can damage your credibility or burn yourself out.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 16:00:44

Post by: Necros

Yes, burnout was the reason I wanted to go this route. So doing 1 faction at a time I can focus on making some cool minis, get them all produced, and then not do the next faction until I'm ready.

It's probably better to introduce a new game with a rulebook and a few different factions from the start, but that requires a whole lot of funds that I just don't have. So I think this way will be better, I can slowly grow the line over time rather than rushing to do it all at once.

Then when I get a few fantasy factions established I hope to jump back and forth between that, and Blackwater Gulch and Mechadrome, so there's always something new coming for each gameworld.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 16:49:47

Post by: bbb

Well, I've been impressed by what you've been able to do so far, so if you can keep going and get all three setting to function under the same ruleset, then I think that's a great accomplishment and you'll probably be able to build off of it even faster then.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 18:26:24

Post by: Necros

Yep it will be easier once I bring the other games into the new format. I'm not rushing though, I want to get the Fantasy game up and running first and polished. Plus, since I just released the Savage Beasts update for BWG I don't want that to be invalid already. So I'm thinking I will probably do the Fantasy game this year, then BWG next year, and Mechadrome the following year.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/04 21:53:43

Post by: AegisGrimm

Some random questions and musings:

Would Lair of the Wurmqueen introduce a larger variety of weapons rules-especially melee ones? I know they are lumped together for simplicity, but I think it'd be great to see "some" different types of weapon have different stats.

Like how a sword and an axe might each be largely the same as a one-handed weapons, but maybe things like two-handed Polearms could be M+2, but with a range of "2" for 5xp, while a normal spear would be 3xp for just M+1 and range 2. Normal two-handers would remain the same.

And right now unless I am missing something, dual-handed weapons seem in an odd place, as they can do the same as a two-hander for -1xp, but the same as a one-hander for +1xp. Because right now a one hander and a shield and a dual hander and shield do the same for different costs?

It mentions some items take up more than one point of strength when equipped. Which ones? Is that what the weapon trait "heavy" means on armor and shields?

Also, about taking damage:

If you do not make as many saves as attacks you are hit by, do you just take -1 health total, or -1 health for each failed save D6 rolled? The rules suggest the former to me, especially with the low health totals on most models, but I would want to be sure.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/05 00:45:28

Post by: Necros

I kind of wanted the basic weapons to be like they are like in Warhammer.. where you have a Hand weapon, great weapon or shield. So an average sword or axe has the same stats, but what will really set them apart are the magic weapons that can have lots of different properties. There will be a big list of magic weapons to choose from.

I also wasn't sure how to handle spears. You see some models with a spear and shield, others wielding them like it's a 2 handed weapon.. so that's how i came up with dual handed, you can treat them like a 1-hander or 2-hander depending on what your model has. I had another idea to make spears just be 1 handed weapons, but give them a 2" reach instead of 1" so I may go that route instead.

And yeah, heavy items take up 2 points of strength, mostly just armor and huge shields.. and there will be heavy weapons in the sci fi rules.

And you're right, when you fail a saving through will only lose 1 HP from an attack. Way back when, the original BWG rules had it be where you lose 1 HP per failed D6.. people didn't live very long

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/08 15:14:42

Post by: Necros

So, I’ve been wondering if I’ve been going about the factions wrong. Just had a new idea to add more RPG-like alignments instead. We could use the standard D&D style alignments, so a character could be Chaotic Good, or Lawful Evil for example. The alignment of your gang leader will determine who can join your gang, so a Lawful Good leader could recruit anyone else who has either Lawful or Good in their alignment, or true neutral?

And then, we could just have a huge list of all available races and pretty much do away with set factions completely. But we could probably list recommended alignments for some races.

Just not sure if those alignments are copyrighted? I think Pathfinder and other games use them too so it’s not just a D&D thing.

I was thinking that would give players a lot more flexibility and let you build more unique gangs. What do you think of that idea?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/08 16:45:07

Post by: bbb

I'd say it depends on how well you can wrap the fluff around the mechanic. You're making a specific setting, so it might be difficult to blow things wide open to allow anything to go and keep it all under the same universe.

When I was toying around with how I'd make a kitchen-sink skirmish game I planned to make archetypal races and clarify how much wiggle room there was within each. For example: humans, elves, dwarves could have any alignment, but orcs and goblins could not be Good and/or Lawful. Undead could not be Good or neutral. etc. Then I'd base everything around the leader and would only allow selection from one degree away at most. So a good leader could never have an evil henchmen or a chaotic one could not have a lawful associate.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/08 17:16:12

Post by: Necros

Yep that's kind of what I was thinking too. Humans can be any alignment, other races would have 1 primary alignment and 1 secondary.. Like, Orcs would primarily be chaotic, so they can be Chaotic good, Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil. Demons would primarily be Evil, so they could be Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil or Chaotic evil. Dwarves might be lawful, elves neural, halflings good.

There wouldn't be any kind of stat bonuses involved, it's just for who your leader can recruit. I could probably put together some icons so it's easy to match up which characters can go together. As long as your henchman or minion's character card has one of the alignment icons that matches one of your leader's, then he can join your gang.

I guess at the end of the day, it's still similar to faction restrictions, just each character gets 2 and there's more options to choose from.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/15 13:31:16

Post by: Necros

Got some tweaks to the rules that I’m working on now. I think I’ll probably have them done next week or so.

I’m going to separate things a bit more, so I’ll have 1 PDF for the rules, then a separate PDF for Fantasy games, and I’ll be adding a new PDF for Steampunk & Western Gangfights. I’m also going to remove the Universal Skills section from the main rules, and instead include more genre specific skills in each PDF. Some skills will have the same bonuses, just get a more fluffier name. I think it will be better that way, so folks can pick & choose the settings they want to play and I hope to eventually have lots of different settings to choose from.

So the new Western PDF will mostly just be a lot of the equipment from Blackwater Gulch, with only humans permitted, and armor is not allowed. The steampunk rules will basically just allow you to play fantasy mortal races with the western skills & equipment.

I’m also planning to update the fantasy undead races and basically remove all of the different undead versions of the mortal races and instead have things be more specific. So Undead will get Vampires, Skeletons, Zombies, Revenants, Liches, Wights, Ghouls, Spirts and Abominations (ogre sized).

I’ll probably do the same thing with the demons, but I have to think of cool demon types to have. I’d like to be able to have 8-10 different types for each faction.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/04/26 14:59:54

Post by: Necros

While I've been putting together the Western & Steampunk rules, I decided I'm going to back track a little and change the way point costs and weapons are done, and make them the same as Blackwater Gulch. So, minion level characters will start at 50 xp, Henchman types at 75 and Heroes at 100. Also we'll stick to the 1 HP for minions, 2 HP for Henchmen and 3 HP for Heroes.. but armor or skills will let you increase them. Also, weapons & equipment will have levels ranging from 1-6 like now.

This is partly because I want to update BWG to these new rules, but I don't want to have to reprint a whole bunch of character cards and/or force people to rebuy them or download & print & cut out their own. I think the points work good in BWG, why change em?

I was going to limit the levels of equipment to the character levels though.. minions can wield level 1 or 2 weapons, henchmen up to level 4, and heroes up to 6. Those higher level weapons will pretty much be the same as rare weapons now, usually enchanted stuff or complex guns.

I also wanted to change the point levels for characters because I want to update the campaign rules to allow you increase your attributes where basically every 5 points of XP gets you 1 new attribute point.

So hopefully I'll have that all updated and the new version released along with the Western & Steampunk rules probably next week or so

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and something else I was going to add to the new rules is damage types, usually for magic spells and DOT effects. I’m thinking of Flaming, Cold, Poison, Disease, Holy and Unholy. These types of attacks have extra strength against people who are susceptible to them (like holy weapons hurting demons more), or have an ongoing effect like setting you on fire. Standard weapons will still do standard damage like always.

For fantasy games you’ll be able to get have weapons & spells that can cause, or items that can resist those types of damage. And some of those will be in the new BWG rules later on too.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/05/16 10:18:06

Post by: Funbread

it's been a while now since the last rule update. I read that you planned to get the system working with the existing BWG cards.
Great (even if that means that I'll have to reprint all the fantasy cards I've created so far)!
I appreciate all the work you put in this subject and really would like to buy I printed copy, when the universal rules are done.
(Please do some vehicle rules too for WW2 or pulp or western coaches ...)

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/05/16 13:38:38

Post by: Necros

Yes I’m working on the updated version now. I’m hoping I can get it wrapped up this week.

What I’m doing now is separating it into different PDFs. So, the core rules will be 1, the fantasy rules will be separate, and I’ll also have a PDF for western & steampunk rules too. I think that will make it easier to add on new ones, and eventually when there are a lot to choose from people can just download what they want. I’d like to do eventually do rules for world wars, modern day, post apocalypse, sci fi, etc. Not sure which I’ll do after the western one, will probably be sci fi just because there are so many sci fi minis out there.

I also plan to do the vehicle rules too It make take a while for those, because I’m afraid they will unbalance things too much, so they will need a lot of testing.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/05/23 15:57:28

Post by: Necros

So, just when I was about to get everything finished up, I decided to go back and change things around more with the character creation after I got some feedback. So now, I'm going to drop the base stats I have for different races now and instead there is a larger pool of attribute points for you to spend.

So all attributes start at 1, and Minions have 9 points to spend. Henchmen have 12 points, and Heroes have 15 points. The max you can have in any attribute is 3 for minions, 4 for henchmen and 5 for Heroes.

After you set your stats up, you choose your race. Each race will have a +1 bonus to an attribute, and that can raise it above the max.

I think doing it this way will give folks much more variety in their characters. It will probably take a little while to get everything rewritten, maybe another week or so since I have a lot going on at the moment.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/06/03 01:01:57

Post by: Necros

After receiving a lot of feedback, we finally updated the core rules and Fantasy Setting Supplement to playtest version 1.2.

Click here to download the new rules now!

There are a lot of tweaks, grammar and spelling fixes. The major differences now is that we have switched to a level-based equipment listing, similar to Blackwater Gulch. Heroes may equip any weapons. Gang Members may equip items up to level 4. Henchmen & Minions may equip items up to level 2.

We've also added maximums to the attributes based on the character type. Heroes can have natural attributes up to 5, Members up to 4, Henchmen & Minions up to 3. Special skills, racial bonuses or items can raise your attributes above the max, however.

Which also brings me to the races. In the included Fantasy Setting Supplement, you may notice that we did away with the base racial attribute lists. Now, you may choose your own stats, and you character's race will grant him a +1 to a given attribute.

Lastly, the list of Universal Skills is not universal anymore. We've moved that over to the Fantasy Setting Supplement. Each additional setting we add later will come with its own list of skills. Many may be repeated, but we'll use different and more "fluffy" names for each setting, but there will be some unique skills too.

We hope you enjoy the new rules, and don't forget to follow us on Facebook for all the latest updates!

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/07/03 12:48:58

Post by: Funbread

Will the new BWG-Ruls fit into this ruleset?
Or do I have to rebuild up all my Characters and reprint them again, if I want them to fight against vampires or demons?
And if you want the systems to be mixable then the level of blackpowder weapons should be lowered. (Pirates, gangsters Witchhunters, pulp heroes, cowboys ... they shouldn't need a special skill to be able to use them as a minion too)

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/07/03 13:32:40

Post by: Necros

Yes the new rules are using the same exact rules as our new generic rules. It's kind of why I wanted to look into doing that box set that will nave updated cards for every character. I'll still have print on demand and free pdf cards though.

And also the way that the weapons will work now, is all standard weapons go up to level 4, for level 5 or 6 weapons you take the basic one and you can enhance them with extra abilities, like silver bullets or poison tipped arrows.

And yes the stats for the guns will also be compatible with the other weapons in the generic rules so that if you wanted to make up your own games with like western gunslingers vs fantasy monsters, you can do that. On average, bows and more primitive ranged weapons are strength 3, while guns are strength 4, and when i get around to the sci fi rules most futuristic weapons will be strength 5. Armor and magic and all of the other generic rules will all work the same.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/07/04 15:09:15

Post by: Funbread

Hmm - are the latest rules online?
Because fantasy firearmes (Pistol, Blunderboss & Musket)
do all have a Str of 3. Shouldn't they count as guns then and have a Str of 4?
And what if I do have a minion and want him to get a pistol?
Level 5 seems to high for the pistol.

I agree that a minion doesn't have to have access to a Musket (or gun) but a pistol should be possible. Right now only gangmembers with a "Know How"-skill can own a firearm.

Or do I mix up things?

Another thought I wanted to share: When we played so far, we made up a houserule, which is inspired by "cutlass".
So, if your character is wounded by a ranged attack he has to take a morale roll imediately. If he's not successfull, he has to spend 2 Actions to run for cover in his next activation.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/07/05 22:31:50

Post by: Necros

Actually, I wanted pistols to be more of a rare thing for fantasy games.. but now that you mention it, it would probably be best if their stats were more in line with the western firearms .. I'll do an update and lower their levels a bit and also increase them to strength 4.

But, I don't know about the morale rule.. it might be ok for fantasy games where guns are more rare, but in a western or sci fi game you'll be rolling for morale after every shot.. that might get tedious after a while. Though, it could be a rule just for fantasy games?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/07/31 20:28:11

Post by: Funbread

While we where playtesting the moral rule worked fine.
You'll just have to test if you are wounded (lost one HP), not when you're hit and dodge it.
I think it fits to the other settings too. When you start bleeding you'll look for cover. Except.... if you are a zombie, then you just move on without thinking.

Back to the gun points. You should keep in mind, that the possibility to mix the genres might result in getting a gunslinger with cheap but powerful pistols against dwarf pirat that has no comparable ranged weapon for the same costs.

But on the other hand its just a few points difference. The game is fun anyways!

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/10/19 12:18:27

Post by: Funbread


it's getting quiet in here. I was trying to set up vehicle rules by myself, but I can't find a good way to represent the "Health" of a car compared to weak weapons. And if I create more powerfull weapons, it's hard to balanc them compared to knifes... I'm stuck...

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2016/10/19 14:32:15

Post by: Necros

Sorry, been busy working on Blackwater Gulch at the moment, but once that's off to the printers I'll circle back around to get these rules finished up

I had a few ideas for vehicles.. where basically if something is classified as a vehicle, a weapon needs a high strength to "wound" it. Vehicles would have an armor value, and your strength needs to meet or exceed that to be able to cause any damage. So something like a basic wooden cart or stagecoach would maybe have an armor value of 5, a car would be 6, a light tank or armored car or mech 7, medium tank or mech 8, heavy tank or mech 9.

Most weapons won't be able to penetrate that, but heavy weapons will have strengths that go above 6.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wait.. forgot, armor levels I mentioned above was an old idea that I had, but doesn't work as well with for our usual defense rolls.

The other method I came up with was to just have weapon strength cut in half if you attack a vehicle.. So, a strength 6 gun would only be strength 3 against a vehicle.

Or another method would be where different armor levels will lower the attacker's strength by a certain number. A wooden vehicle would have an armor level of 1, so you subtract 1 from the attackers strength. Cars would be 2, light mechs 3, medium 4 and heavy 5.

I kind of wanted to get away from having to do a lot of math, but I think that might be the best way to go. I haven't actually playtested any of that, so feel free to try it out and let me know how it goes

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2017/07/26 16:10:38

Post by: Necros

So now that I’m finishing up Blackwater Gulch, I’m going to be swinging back around to updating the core rules to match in the next month or 2. The rules we currently have are still valid, they’ll just be cleaned up and more organized. And then expended upon.

What I’m hoping to do is have this be the main focus of the company (along with producing new minis for BWG). So right now my plan is to have the core rules as one big PDF, campaign rules will be a separate supplement just to keep things streamlined. For genres and settings, we’ll have Fantasy, Westerns, Horror with Sci-Fi, Pulp and others added soon after. Each setting supplement will basically just be a list of races, skills, spells and equipment. Our official game worlds will basically be combining a couple of different supplements, for example Blackwater Gulch 2nd Edition uses the Western & Horror rules, with a touch of Fantasy thrown in.

What I am hoping to do is produce a printed book including all of that, but it will probably be a print-on-demand book using Wargame Vault. Separately, I’m hoping to keep things moving with new supplements added hopefully weekly or at least bi-weekly. One for Blackwater Gulch each month, and at least 1 for other settings to support the generic rules. These will be new scenarios, new skills, character/gang/faction bios, stories, settings, etc. If all goes well, we hope to release them as PDFs but then also compile them in to books each each year, like a Gangfight Annual, for folks that prefer a physical copy. That will also be a Wargame Vault book… unless I can get to the point where I’m able to produce and sell a minimum of 1000 copies, that’s the only way to get a decent price. But what I really hope to do is turn SkirmishGames.com into a big compendium of rules and supplements that are always fresh and up to date.

So that’s where I’m at now. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will have all of the Blackwater Gulch content off to the printers, and then I can start updating the core rules and get started on the other things

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/04/20 17:24:33

Post by: Funbread

Well BWG2 ended up being very balanced. So, do you still plan on having the core rules plus different settings? I still would invest in pulp and fantasy settings. And if you can mix the genres... perfect

(just asking, because of the "two month or so" *g*)
just kidding, I know you spend a lot of time on BWG, which makes me happy too.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/04/20 18:25:01

Post by: Necros

Actually... this is the next thing in my plans for global domination!

Right now I'm redoing the core rules to match BWG. Basically just removing the BWG references in the rules to make things more "generic" sounding. Then I will be updating the Fantasy setting, plus adding a generic "Wild Wiest" setting, that I'd also like to include a sci fi setting too.

What we are thinking of doing is setting up something like a Patreon campaign, where we can keep adding new content for this and also BWG hopefully on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. And people can subscribe for a low fee like $1 a month. The core rules would be free, but subscribers would get things like new scenarios, new supplements, fluff & background stuff, hobby articles, character bios, campaign stories, etc. But I still need to look into that more and see how to structure things.

Then if that works out, what I was also thinking of doing is collecting all of those articles into a book once a year as a "Gangfight Annual" kind of thing, so people who like to have a book instead of PDFs could order that print on demand through Wargame Vault.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/05/07 21:38:09

Post by: Necros

Going over the rules to prepare them for the 2nd edition. Should be able to have them ready soon now Still planning to have them be a free download, but I’m wondering if it might be worth it to try and do a small Kickstarter campaign for a nice hardcover rulebook like the BWG rules?

So what I’m thinking is the book would have the core rules + fantasy supplement to begin with. Possibly Sci Fi too if there is enough space. After that we could do other genres as stretch goals.. pirates, WWII, zombie apocalypse, etc.

Knowing what the costs were like for the BWG book.. I imagine I would need a minimum of $6000 for a funding goal (probably a bit higher).. and at a price of $25, that means I’d need around 250 backers. I think it’s a goal we could reach. Would take a while to put that together and get some new art done, but the PDF version would be out first.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/05/11 08:44:46

Post by: Funbread

If you do that Kickstarter, I would be more than willing to pledge
And if the quality of that book could match the 2nd Edition BWG ... great ! (I didn't like the booklet from the first Edition too much).

And if you want to catch more people you could maybe do something like the loot cards for the other settings, some predefined character card's, ...
That would give some sort of "this is a complete starter set" to the campaign. Minis are nice, but if you show that the system is generic, they won't be missed

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/05/11 13:38:48

Post by: Necros

That’s exactly the plan, it’s like you read my mind or hacked my emails!

Definitely going to be doing a KS, some time this summer. Maybe like August? It will be for just the book, no minis. The book will be all the universal rules, and then there will be a setting supplement for fantasy and for sci fi. Stretch goals will be to add content to the book and make it bigger and better like adding more setting supplements. Each supplement will have special skills, spells, equipment, scenarios and a bunch of sample characters. And I will be using the same printing company I used for BWG’s rulebook so expect the same quality Whole idea is you can play any genre you want with any minis you want.

Also planning to do loot card decks for each supplement, but they will have to be add-on stretch goals. Also thought of maybe doing multiple smaller decks of like 25 cards or so... Like an Elven Loot Deck, Dwarf Loot Deck, Orc Loot Deck, etc? You can mix them all together, or build a custom deck if you want to do a special themed game or something like that.

And then I want to change my SkirmishGames.com site around and have that be like a blog / news site, kind of like the Warhammer Community site, with hobby articles, gang building tips like how to take a boxed game like Zombicide for example and use the minis in it to create 2 skirmish gangs. And there will be new scenarios, character sheets/cards and stuff to download. But I want to get the new book out of the way first.

Also BWG will be fully compatible, it’s all the same rules. I was probably going to have the BWG book and loot cards as add on items in the KS too. Planning to make it just 1 pledge level for the core book, and then people can just raise their amount to cover other add-on items if they want them. I want to make it where setting supplements are like extra chapters in the book or free PDF downloads, but full game worlds like BWG or Mechadrome will get their own separate books.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/05/18 03:50:32

Post by: Necros

Getting some price quotes for printing. Here's the current plan..

Hardback rulebook with minimum 98 pages (need to print in multiples of 16). Fantasy and Sci Fi generic setting supplements will be included. I'll do other supplements as stretch goals in the KS campaign, planning Pirates and Zombie apocalypse. Open to suggestions for others The idea is regular settings will be in the core book and/or PDF downloads, while full gameworlds with minis like BWG and Mechadrome will have their own separate books, but still compatible. Rules are all the same.

I'd like to do multiple loot card decks for each setting. Planning on smaller decks of 25 cards, but themed. So like there would be an Elf Loot Deck, Dwarf Loot Deck, Dragon Loot Deck, etc. You can mix em all together, or build themed decks if you want to play a special kind of game with more fixed rewards.

Still lots of planning to do, but things are coming along nicely. Hoping to try and get a preview PDF done within the next couple of weeks, before I start production & packaging for the new BWG minis.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/05/20 15:04:47

Post by: Funbread

Sounds good to me. I think you catched the main themes, except one: Pulp! Think about Indiana Jones, mad scientists, funny looking (but deadly) robots, Chicago Gangsters and private investigators…
And PDFs are really nice to store, but when it comes to play and you have to lookup some things, smartphones and tablets are failing due to the PDF format. For that purpose an App would be nice. Or even better: A hardback rulebook

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/05/21 15:26:59

Post by: Necros

We’ll see how it goes when I do the KS. What I would really like to be able to do is have a nice & big core rulebook with separate chapters covering a bunch of different settings or eras. I’d like to do a Pulp setting too Anyway those chapters would be enough to get you started and playing. Separately, I’d like to do full sourcebooks for each one too, maybe even multiple books if it's warranted. So you get the basics in the core book and if that’s the only book you have, you can still play, but the sourcebooks would have a lot more info and stuff like premade characters and minion teams, plus several small decks of loot cards for each. And then of course we’d still have the separate gameworld rulebooks for BWG and others that we want to make minis for. If anything doesn’t make it into the core book, we could release other settings as a basic PDF later on, and then a separate book if there’s interest.

I’d love to be able to do a gang builder app. No clue where to start and I imagine it would probably be pretty expensive. So I think that would only happen if the Kickstarter went nuts and brought in tons of cash. Not holding my breath It’s basically gonna just be a campaign with 1 funding goal for like $25 or $30 for the core book and then a few add ons for loot decks. Want to keep it really simple and affordable. Hoping the lower cost will bring in lots of backers, since I will need to print at least 1000 copies.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/06/08 20:45:27

Post by: Necros

Things are progressing nicely. I’ve decided for now to just have sci-fi and fantasy supplements as part of the main book. I’ve also moved a lot of skills over to a “universal skills” list that is available for all settings… and then each setting supplement will have a list of extra skills you can use. Same deal with equipment.

In fantasy I have several different schools of magic (like fire magic, ice magic, death magic, etc). Sci-Fi has psychic powers but also technology that works the same way as spells, like calling in air strikes or having little attack drones.

I decided on the format for the Kickstarter. It will be for the main book, just 1 simple pledge. For stretch goals we will do decks of loot cards as add-ons, mixed in with goals to add different settings to the main book so it will get extra free content. Planning on Pirates, Zombies and Steampunk. I’m not going to do whole separate books for settings at least not now, mostly so the campaign will be more manageable and won’t drag on forever. But we’ll see how things go and could always plan that for future campaigns.

I’m hoping to have an updated rulebook PDF in the next month or so and if all goes well the campaign would be happening in August. Before it launches though I want to try and put together a good How to Play Blackwater Gulch video, that I can also use in the KS to show people how the rules work.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/06/13 01:29:39

Post by: AegisGrimm

Sounds intriguing!

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/06/14 12:29:28

Post by: RiTides

I am definitely interested although even more for the scifi part, for me personally. Single pledge level sounds fine!

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/07/10 14:52:20

Post by: Necros

Working on the updated PDF version now.

Been wondering lately though.. would it be better to have the free rules not be a PDF, but instead a big website, where for example each different section of the book would be a web page?

Thinking it would be easy to embed videos and stuff like that, and it would also be responsive meaning it would look good on all devices. PDFs are so teeny on a phone.

Maybe that would be a good way to have the 2 different versions? Free basic rules as web pages, and a printed book sold separately that has more content to it?

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/07/22 16:09:11

Post by: CptJake

I would like PDFs personally. I do not always have web access.

The Gangfight Skirmish Game System @ 2018/07/23 14:46:53

Post by: Necros

Good call .. I was thinking I'd still do the PDF versions, but also the web page version would be easy enough to do since it's just copying and pasting text. I like the idea of having links to different chapters rather than saying "find this on page whatever" .. though I suppose I could do more interactive PDFs too that have links like that.

I have the fantasy supplement pretty much nailed down, but I feel like the sci fi rules are turning out to be bit too broad .. it might be better to keep the fantasy rules as the main one, and then break up sci fi into smaller themed sections .. like near future, cyberpunk, grimdark, etc. The supplements are basically just lists of skills, weapons and sample characters.. all of the actual rules you need will be in the main rulebook. The main rules also has universal skills and equipment, that you can use for a variety of different settings, probably best for more historical themed games.