Glad to have this show back and wasn’t dissapointed.
A great first episode.
Pros:
-Everybody acting in this is great. Man in Black was as menacing as ever, Bernard has new mysteries to unfold, Dolores was beautifully twisted, Maeve still super driven and and her newest erstwhile human henchman Lee was hilarious.
-New, briefly mentioned revelations about data collection at the park raise some serious questions about the purpose of the park.
Spoiler:
Info and DNA of park customers is being collected, I doubt for any thing other than nefarious purposes. Theory: Replacing wealthy customers in the real world with hosts, to control and manipulate the worlds wealthiest?
-Despite unanswered questions from last season, topped with some new mysteries, along with apparently new separate timelines, all that info doesn’t seem overwhelming. IMO, this is a tightly written show.
-I haven’t been paying too much attention to the pre launch trailer buildups, but the trailers I saw used mostly footage from this episode, which I greatly appreciate. I’m sure its been parsed out and over-analyzed by superfans, but I love minimalist trailers that don’t reveal a whole lot. Most likely a concious decision by the show producers, as the show banks heavily on its mysteries.
Cons:
- Lab Security teams still seem like they were recruited from the bottom tier of Star Wars Stormtroopers and Star Trek Redshirts. On the flip side, the team inside the park looks very professional, ruthless and proficient (so far) though. Makes me wonder if the ineptitude of the lab security team is intentional.
- Still no word about the inquisitive female lab tech Elsie who was presumably killed by Bernard last season. I thought she’d be with Stubbs. Maybe she is dead.
- No Anthony Hopkins, aside from a brief decaying cameo.
- No Anthony Hopkins, aside from a brief decaying cameo.
Thats not quite true...
Spoiler:
Ford spoke to William through a pre-recorded message programmed into the boy Host from Ford's secret Host family. I'm guessing that he has left more messages, and/or fragments of his psyche programmed into various Hosts. I think we haven't seen the last of Ford, even if it is just going to be post-mortem messages and clues that he recorded prior to his death.
Or maybe...Ford had a backup plan, to download his own conciousness into a Host.
- Still no word about the inquisitive female lab tech Elsie who was presumably killed by Bernard last season. I thought she’d be with Stubbs. Maybe she is dead.
I think she wasn't even in the credits so either she's gone or maybe will be a guest (actor) for a few episodes but not a regular one.
Spoiler:
The data collection might be nefarious or it might be an example of boring regular corporate vacuuming of all possible data. Just in case if they later find another way of profiting from it.
During one scene a host was repairing another host's wounds with a blowtorch. I was thinking man, don't these hosts get shot up pretty much every night previously? How do they usually fix them?
Ouze wrote: During one scene a host was repairing another host's wounds with a blowtorch. I was thinking man, don't these hosts get shot up pretty much every night previously? How do they usually fix them?
They have a much larger one that they can use on multiple people at once. What you saw was just a small one for minor detailing. The bigger one has a much bigger fla..... healing ray and you have to wear this big tank on the back. The healing ray is so strong it can even incin..... revive dead tissue or create new tissue from nothing.
But it is definitely not a big flamethrower. Definitely not. (Or a giant oven)
This was a good episode, though if you were paying attention to the “previously on Westworld!” Clip, it was pretty easy to deduce what the big reveal would be.
The host drones creep me out, it was neat seeing the MiB watching on (and seemingly reflecting on)as his own violent acts were played out by the Confeds, and the interactions between William and Delos during the testing were awesome.
I've got a theory...that new (Human) Guest, who was introduced this Season in the Raj Park, seems to be on a mission of her own searching for the secrets of the Park, much like William is. Perhaps she is William's daughter, looking to uncover the same secrets that her father has spent decades of his life chasing.
Spoiler:
EDIT: aaaaaaaand I was right. (I posted the above comment when I was halfway through the episode).
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I've got a theory...that new (Human) Guest, who was introduced this Season in the Raj Park, seems to be on a mission of her own searching for the secrets of the Park, much like William is. Perhaps she is William's daughter, looking to uncover the same secrets that her father has spent decades of his life chasing.
Spoiler:
EDIT: aaaaaaaand I was right. (I posted the above comment when I was halfway through the episode).
Spoiler:
I made that same guess as an offhanded remark to someone, then was like "YEEAH BOI." when I was right.
All in all a fairly solid Episode, past and present Bill continue to be my favorites.
I’m losing track of the timeline and mildly annoyed by that, but that is kind of their shtick. Non-linear story telling is just a general pet peeve of mine.
Hulksmash wrote: It's a little to bouncy from Arnold's perspective honestly. Makes it a pure pain in his place. The rest I don't really have any issues with.
Ya, was going to say the same thing yesterday but the boss was walking through my area.
Its a bit excessive with Arnold, particularly that it sometimes happens in conjunction with real time. I'm sure it will all get wrapped up neatly though.
AduroT wrote: I’m losing track of the timeline and mildly annoyed by that, but that is kind of their shtick. Non-linear story telling is just a general pet peeve of mine.
I'm having the same problem, but I think that's deliberate - given that we were going to be wise to the time-jumping this time around, they made it a central feature rather than hiding it, and I think the difficulty picking which timeline you're currently in is supposed to mirror Bernard's confusion.
Shogun World was neat. Hopefully we delve deeper into it next week.
The park for people who want it more hardcore than whats on offer in Westworld! Also loved the borrowed storylines, like the attack on the geishas house that was a carbon copy of the attack on Maeve's brothel. Will be interesting to see how those characters interact, but I'm worried the show will get bloated unless more folks bite it soon.
Also, after looking at some stills from this episode, my boy Teddy got some serious reprogramming after Dolores betrayed him. He's about to become alot different.
Well, you got to see a few more minutes of him til he saw off the main group!
In this episode, I liked how Teddy has changed. Great turn by James Marsden, subtle changes in posture, tone and facial expression showed that something else was in control. There seemed to be an implication that he knew and resented Dolores because of the change, but I might have read too much into their exchanges.
A great moment between William and his daughter was ruined by the the tired “took our equipment, kit, and horses and bolted before you woke” trope. Who is that deep of a sleeper? I guess there is no redemption for William, or his mission is of extreme importance. Maybe both.
Another security team appears!? I don’t think they are long for this world though, with Dolores and Co. making their way out.
Also, that ending shot!
There were moments in this episode where my interest faltered, but I’m pretty damn excited for next episode.
Well, you got to see a few more minutes of him til he saw off the main group!
In this episode, I liked how Teddy has changed. Great turn by James Marsden, subtle changes in posture, tone and facial expression showed that something else was in control. There seemed to be an implication that he knew and resented Dolores because of the change, but I might have read too much into their exchanges.
A great moment between William and his daughter was ruined by the the tired “took our equipment, kit, and horses and bolted before you woke” trope. Who is that deep of a sleeper? I guess there is no redemption for William, or his mission is of extreme importance. Maybe both.
Another security team appears!? I don’t think they are long for this world though, with Dolores and Co. making their way out.
Also, that ending shot!
There were moments in this episode where my interest faltered, but I’m pretty damn excited for next episode.
It was good episode and enjoyed lots of it.
Lots of things I am trying to work out:
Is William in a host body - he was shot twice by the confederalies and hardly flinched. Was it a intentional mistake to see if his "daughter" was a host about the elephants or an issue with "fidelity" or just a memory slip.
Is the whole thing a "story" by Ford and everyone is a host! Or even just a simulation.
nels1031 wrote: In this episode, I liked how Teddy has changed. Great turn by James Marsden, subtle changes in posture, tone and facial expression showed that something else was in control. There seemed to be an implication that he knew and resented Dolores because of the change, but I might have read too much into their exchanges.
Oh, I definitely thought that. Which is a more interesting choice than to just have him be a cliched angry murder-bot.
While I know some people are allergic to non-linear storytelling, I think it's a great tool when used well, and I really like how it's been embraced and used differently by these writers this season since it can't be the 'twist' anymore.
Well, you got to see a few more minutes of him til he saw off the main group!
I really hope that they come back, because otherwise its a waste of a great actor on what is essentially a long cameo.
In this episode, I liked how Teddy has changed. Great turn by James Marsden, subtle changes in posture, tone and facial expression showed that something else was in control. There seemed to be an implication that he knew and resented Dolores because of the change, but I might have read too much into their exchanges.
A great moment between William and his daughter was ruined by the the tired “took our equipment, kit, and horses and bolted before you woke” trope. Who is that deep of a sleeper? I guess there is no redemption for William, or his mission is of extreme importance. Maybe both.
Another security team appears!? I don’t think they are long for this world though, with Dolores and Co. making their way out.
Also, that ending shot!
There were moments in this episode where my interest faltered, but I’m pretty damn excited for next episode.
Teddy stuff was good, I also got the feeling that he resented the change or at least knew of it.
Agree with William and his Daughter, I would have like to have seen him agree to take her to the point, after finishing his mission.
Security Team might bite the big one, but considering that Charlotte is still alive by the time the Main Force is back, and still holding the Plateau I think they might win.
Well, after this latest episode, I'm officially confused!
Still enjoying the show though.
Other than the horndog security guard and Telulah Riley's character: "Hey I was just killing all your fellow hosts and I may have just shot you a moment ago, but you got a nice pair, so lets get friendly. Nothing bad will happen if we do the nasty!"
I mean I get it, its Telulah Riley, but priorities my dude!
AduroT wrote: Yeah, that scene seemed Highly contrived.
Agreed but Angela/Ms Riley did look gorgeous (as always)
I am confused now about what the plan is for the Hosts - they seem to be on a suicide run?
Unless they are going to all upload to the satellite and head out into the web? I mean Angela is "awake" but she was quite happy to blow herself up for the cause but what is the plan - that's the piece I am missing......
The two of us watching it are now certain that the MIB is in a host body - he has been shot about 6 times now without dying.
Loving Ford - especially his hypocrisy - yeah you have free will but only if you do what I want you to do
I am also wondering of William is in a host. He has taken a lot of punishment, but is still trucking. On the other hand, we see hosts take a bullet or three and keel over.
I would have thought that the routines that make them 'she's when shot by guests would have been disabled. On the other hand Delores' crew kill and then reanimate a bunch of hosts.
Don't they have a robot frame underneath a 'meat suit' so that they can bleed and react to pain as their role as a host requires.
I don't know if Plot Armour is muddying the waters as to who is or isn't a host.
For example, William is laying at Maeve's feet when she is shot. Next time we see him he is propped up behind some wood.
If he dragged himself there why didn't the QA guys rescue him or kill him? Unless they are under orders not to interfere with him?
But that could just have been a poorly cut scene. Or the QA guys just failed to notice him dragging himself to cover.
QA or Quite Awful. Dear God. They had such a build.up.but then are just terrible. I understand that the robots are meant to be better than the humans but I think that should have been gotten across by them being faster, smarter and stronger than their former masters.
They wear body armour that in the glorious tradition of movies stops neither bullets nor knives. They don't seem to have any particular methods for dealing with errant hosts. Maybe they don't have EMP or Bolt rounds...but should they be shooting the hosts in the head, where their control unit's are?
Given how well the rest of the story is written their ineptitude seems jarring. They should have just been more rentacops.
As I suspected at the end of Season One, Ford is still pushing all the buttons (directly taking control of poor Bernard to commit murder).
But the robots as 'control vs human variables' twist is interesting.
Teddy does know what Delores has done to him, he outrightt tells her so in one episode. The shift in manners by the actor is very well done, IMO. Subtle but telling.
I loved Shogun World, too. The reuse of plots and characters was a nod towards computer games and/or the idea of a limited amount of stories in the world.
At the beginning of the series I was a little disappointed as the hosts just seemed to be acting as badly as the guests but things have picked up now. With Maeve and Delores we are seeing a I treating division in goals.
I am finding the flashbacks within flashback within flashbacks a bit much at times.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: The promo for ep 8 looks intriguing. seems like its going to be a Ghost People centric episode.
While I'm sure I'll end up enjoying diving into this character, I feel like there is too much going on right now to introduce another storyline.
Shogun World was a new storyline. And it appears it might have been a one off/filler. (the Japanese Hosts are off their loops but don't appear to be self-aware, so I doubt they'll have much significance going forward. Especially considering they're just copies of the Westworld characters).
Whereas this storyline has already been introduced. This Indian is one of the Ghost People, who have been a constant if mysterious presence since Season 1. Looks we're finally going to get some answers regarding the Ghost People.
Whereas this storyline has already been introduced. This Indian is one of the Ghost People, who have been a constant if mysterious presence since Season 1. Looks we're finally going to get some answers regarding the Ghost People.
Ya, I get what you're saying, its just that there is a multitude of other questions regarding many other characters that need some answers as well. Not looking forward(too much) to another timeline to keep track of.
Maeve + Supporting cast
Dolores + Supporting cast (much reduced at this point, but still cracking)
William + Supporting cast (also much reduced, and also still cracking)
Bernard + Elsie + now Ghost Ford (which are flashbacks within flashbacks)
Bernard + the black woman, the tall dude and newer security team
Thats alot to keep track of, and I'm worried the show will cut corners or lose focus on all those loose threads.
Like I said though, I'll probably end up enjoying this sequence. I loved this actors understated performance in Fargo (season 2 I think).
It would be neat, but it seems too obvious. I'd rather him just be a deeply flawed human being, and the damage he received last episode just be sloppy writing.
The gunfighting in this series has been pretty suspect and its consistently my main gripe (the security team walking right up to the pretty heavily defended "Confederate" base was mind blowingly annoying to me). So William surviving the shots he took a few weeks back and still surviving might just be a continuation of that sketchy writing.
The gunplay action sequences have definitely been a low point, comically bad to the point of narrative disruption. Ive enjoyed this season a lot, but between the Armistice flamethrower scene, the attack on the "confederate" camp, and the inability of trained and experienced dudes with automatic weapons to deal with almost anything when confronted with naked, unarmed or black powder armed opponents has made it difficult to take some stuff
I keep flip-flopping on whether William is host or not.
On the one hand he's been shot a lot with minimal consequences, plus he seems obsessed with the same things as other awakened hosts (the maze last season, that place they all want to reach this season).
On the other, the show has pointed out just how difficult and time consuming it is to make a host that can pass as a "real" person.
As for the inept security guards, I think the original on-site team were little more than your average theme park security staff (it's not like they had much to do before everything went wrong).
The second team did quite well against Delores's Killbots (except that guy who thought he was going to get laid in the middle of a gun battle), there just wasn't enough of them.
William being a host seems like a twist so obvious that it isn't even a twist anymore. We've also seen that one already with Bernand...I don't expect them to go back to that well, at least not in that way.
Well, Bernard was a host but didn't know it. Old Willaim could be a human 'mind' in a robot body.
In the flashbacks it was young William trying to get a host version of his dad. I don't know how old Ed Harris' William is supposed to be, but it is possible that several decades have passed since the abortive tests trying to build his father.
Perhaps, while they are still very difficult or expensive to make, the bugs have been largely fixed.
Souleater wrote: Well, Bernard was a host but didn't know it. Old Willaim could be a human 'mind' in a robot body.
In the flashbacks it was young William trying to get a host version of his dad. I don't know how old Ed Harris' William is supposed to be, but it is possible that several decades have passed since the abortive tests trying to build his father.
Perhaps, while they are still very difficult or expensive to make, the bugs have been largely fixed.
Its not Williams dad - its his stepfather - I thought the fidelity tests were fairly recent - it did not look like he had been in the room that long when Bernard and the tech girl found them ?
I agree with the William's mind in a host body - although it also makes me wonder who is running the company and who Charlotte Hale is reporting to.
Also William def seemed to be in two minds about the tech. That may be more Altered Carbon moralising about longevity (I hope not - that was a very annoying change from the books - stopping ageing / replacement bodies is not inherently "bad" its the society that can be built around that that can be, otherwise its just transfer of wealth from parent to child rather than just the parent keeping it. Who it is will make no difference to the vast majority of the have nots)
Pretty nice touch of having William putting his "profile card" in Slaughter House 5. Its also a story that has different timelines, questioning of reality, "Billy Pilgrim" is the protagonists name and Williams wife calls him Billy and asks when he's going on his pilgrimage. Tiny little detail that I appreciated.
Dolores hasn't had much to work with this season but she was excellent when Teddy decided to check out. Her reaction was so great and believable. Excellent actress in my opinion.
Its always fun watching Anthony Hopkins get his monologue on, but it seemed weird when he said he loved Maeve the most, when I barely remember them interacting last season. Thought he was all about Bernard, unless he's lying to Maeve to get her to do his bidding "willfully". I have no clue.
Once again, absolute gak gun play rears its head. Dudes with bows and arrows stand right in front of other dudes with rifles and pistols and it was pretty much a stalemate. :( At least the QA guys have an excuse this episode, getting waxed by William was believable, as it was a complete surprise.
Kind of worried about this show going forward, to be honest. "Season Finale" next week and I still have no idea whats going on or where its going. Alot of what I liked in this show is turning out to just be filler. I mean, I enjoy the show immensely, but for me the magic is wearing off. I think the introduction of the "Valley Beyond/Forge" plot device (never mentioned in previous season (afaik) is where it went off the rails for me.
So that was a pretty good episode (prefer last week's which has been the standout so far) and I love Ed Harris so episodes centred around William are always really good.
Some interesting points brought up this week.
Spoiler:
The secret Delos project (The Valley Beyond) is where all of the raw data of all the park visitors is stored and could be used to resurrect the dead is called The Forge.
Ford's project where he stores the raw data for the hosts is called The Cradle.
A Forge is where you create something by pretty much hammering it into existence under extreme pressure. A cradle is where you nurture something which has been born.
I think this tells us a lot about the difference between Delos and Ford. Ford views the hosts as new life that he sees as his children. Delos wants to perpetuate the lives of those that can afford to be kept alive and are essentially keeping humanity alive by copying and pasting their experiences.
I get the impression from last night's episode that Ford doesn't have a high opinion of humanity and would rather they were replaced by his own children.
Also another interesting thing was the "party". Everybody was dressed in black and when Ford presented William his profile at the bar he said he had "Come to pay his respects".
I think the "party" was actually a funeral. My speculation is that it was actually William's funeral, that he died and was brought back in a host body using the profile collected during his 30 years of visiting the park.
The reason his wife committed suicide was that she realised what they had actually brought back wasn't "Billy" but a monster.
Essentially the William that visited the park wasn't her husband - it was his "game character" which is why he doesn't feel right outside of the park.
So I don't think he is a "host" in the same sense as Ford's hosts - he is a real consciousness in a host body - which is why he didn't scan as a host when QA found him.
In previous flashbacks, he was still alive which is why other hosts couldn't hurt him but in this timeline, he is dead William i a host's body.
Well it appears that Delos keeps multiple back-up copies of a Host's chassis on standby, judging by that room full of Bernards we saw. Maeve could just transfer herself into a spare copy of herself.
I think the Benards are the only time we’ve actually seen spare bodies on hand though. I don’t think spare bodies has even been mentioned that I recall, they always just repair the existing ones and send them back out. It’s why Maeve was able to dig a bullet from a previous death out of her gut.
Yes but presumably there are occasions when the damage to a Host chassis is so catastrophic that it becomes necessary to transfer them to an entirely new chassis. Such as amputation, beheading, complete destruction of the head (and therefore the "brain" control unit).
Such as that Host who gets his brains blown out by Maeve in the Saloon in the Pilot episode.
When that happens, they will probably need a replacement. Assuming that the Host personality is important enough to warrant replacing with a direct copy, and not just retired altogether and replaced with a new Host.
EDIT: Now I'm going to refute my own point.
Maybe you're right and Bernard is a special case. Ford was trying to recreate Arnold's personality in a roundabout indirect way (creating a new identity not telling the host that its a copy of Arnold, but over time moulding the personality to resemble Arnold).
Perhaps the multiple copies of Bernard exist so he can be replaced with a new iteration everytime he begins to go nuts and break down like the many copies of James Delos? Ford was essentially running the same experiment that Delos and William were running on James Delos.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Yes but presumably there are occasions when the damage to a Host chassis is so catastrophic that it becomes necessary to transfer them to an entirely new chassis. Such as amputation, beheading, complete destruction of the head (and therefore the "brain" control unit).
Such as that Host who gets his brains blown out by Maeve in the Saloon in the Pilot episode.
When that happens, they will probably need a replacement. Assuming that the Host personality is important enough to warrant replacing with a direct copy, and not just retired altogether and replaced with a new Host.
I had assumed they had backups of "main host cast" for the same reasons - they have the mind backed up so it depends if its easier to rebuild a new one from scratch or update the features on another.
I don’t think there are spares. Otherwise they wouldn’t need to replace hosts with new characters when one’s programming goes bad. They could just pop a new mind into one of the spare bodies so. That way your guests don’t see weird casting changes half way thru their trip. We’ve also never seen a host mind occupy a body other than its own, with the exception of Bernard in the computer and then Ford hitching a ride.
I *think* we have the answer as to whether William was or wasn't. The answer is...YES. The jumping around in William's backstory was a clue. But the events we saw were historical, just being relived over and over by synthetic William. I don't want to say 'host' William because this episode underlined that there's a difference between the hosts invented for the park and a human consciousness in a synthetic body.
I think we can assume it's a more distant future. And the interviewer testing for fidelity *appears* to be a host and not a synthetic Emily, just because she says 'William' and not 'Dad'. So are the biological humans dead at this time? Are they attempting to 'bring back' the human race?
gorgon wrote: Yeah, nothing to talk about after that one. LOL.
Regarding the post-credits scene:
Spoiler:
I *think* we have the answer as to whether William was or wasn't. The answer is...YES. The jumping around in William's backstory was a clue. But the events we saw were historical, just being relived over and over by synthetic William. I don't want to say 'host' William because this episode underlined that there's a difference between the hosts invented for the park and a human consciousness in a synthetic body.
I think we can assume it's a more distant future. And the interviewer testing for fidelity *appears* to be a host and not a synthetic Emily, just because she says 'William' and not 'Dad'. So are the biological humans dead at this time? Are they attempting to 'bring back' the human race?
gorgon wrote: Yeah, nothing to talk about after that one. LOL.
Regarding the post-credits scene:
Spoiler:
I *think* we have the answer as to whether William was or wasn't. The answer is...YES. The jumping around in William's backstory was a clue. But the events we saw were historical, just being relived over and over by synthetic William. I don't want to say 'host' William because this episode underlined that there's a difference between the hosts invented for the park and a human consciousness in a synthetic body.
I think we can assume it's a more distant future. And the interviewer testing for fidelity *appears* to be a host and not a synthetic Emily, just because she says 'William' and not 'Dad'. So are the biological humans dead at this time? Are they attempting to 'bring back' the human race?
Spoiler:
Bring them back for X reason is my guess.
Yeah, could be. In fact, I think I hope that's the case, and that...
Spoiler:
...it's established that humans are needed/valuable/deserving of life, because right now the show's commentary on humanity is bleaker than ever. We're murderous, duplicitous, greedy, and incapable of real change. Ooooooookay, then. It's like we're supposed to be rooting for Dolores to wipe us out, even given that she's a crazed, hate-filled murderbot.
we were kinda alright with it unitl the post credits scene and then we were confused - going - what but when? and Huh?
Is everything a similulation - how many layers of reality are we talking.
Spoiler:
On one level it "seems" Dolores escaped, sent the Hosts "somewhere else" which seemed odd, and Meave and co could be revived by their tech friends in a new Westworld to keep the show going both there and for us.
On the other hand this all could be a simulation as William seems to think its all played out before.
Dolores had her bag of hosts - Dad and? Maybe Angela (just cos Ms Riley) but no idea who else?
I did even wonder at one point if any of this is on Earth
Vaktathi wrote: Well, while that was a fun watch, it sure felt like a series, not a season, finale.
Really? I thought it opened up tons of possibilities.
I mean, it did, but
Spoiler:
it felt very much in a "sequel" way, as in, the story of Westworld was closed or sidelined, maybe now it will be Futureworld or Cyberworld or something. If the show ended now, most everyone had their story wrapped up in some way, whatever comes next is an entirely different story and phase of existence for each of the characters that need no longer necessarily be directly connected.
(spoiler about next season from the showrunners)
Spoiler:
The showrunners said in an interview that they'll spend a lot of time next season (but not all the time) outside the park.
Vaktathi wrote: Well, while that was a fun watch, it sure felt like a series, not a season, finale.
Really? I thought it opened up tons of possibilities.
I mean, it did, but
Spoiler:
it felt very much in a "sequel" way, as in, the story of Westworld was closed or sidelined, maybe now it will be Futureworld or Cyberworld or something. If the show ended now, most everyone had their story wrapped up in some way, whatever comes next is an entirely different story and phase of existence for each of the characters that need no longer necessarily be directly connected.
Okay, I guess I see what you mean. It does feel like a phase has ended, so one can look at it either way.
I just finished season 2 last night. I enjoyed it but the finale left me wondering if we even need a season 3. Or if we did, would it even be "West" world anymore? Seems like they are building up the story for how the bots will take over the world, and you can't really do that if you're stuck in a theme park though it's 100 miles wide.
In the first season I didn't like Maeve that much, but liked Dolores and wanted to see her win.. now it's a complete 180 and I didn't care for Dolores at all. I dunno maybe the actress just didn't pull off the PsychoFemBot part as good.
I liked Shogunworld, wouldn't mind seeing more of that next time.
Necros wrote: I just finished season 2 last night. I enjoyed it but the finale left me wondering if we even need a season 3. Or if we did, would it even be "West" world anymore? Seems like they are building up the story for how the bots will take over the world, and you can't really do that if you're stuck in a theme park though it's 100 miles wide.
In the first season I didn't like Maeve that much, but liked Dolores and wanted to see her win.. now it's a complete 180 and I didn't care for Dolores at all. I dunno maybe the actress just didn't pull off the PsychoFemBot part as good.
I liked Shogunworld, wouldn't mind seeing more of that next time.
Good article that helps explain where they going from one of the creators - linked in my post above.
I think that was the point of this season - Dolores was brutally treated and wanted her to get even but then she did and started to appear that she would go down the same path as her abusers.
Maeve was much mroe relatable and written that way in Season 2.
I do feel its progressed really quickly and looking forward to seeing what they are going to do in S3 - apparentl West World will be in it -
I think the issue with Dolores for many people in season 2 was that it felt so out of character (hah) and extreme in season 2 compared to 1. It was exactly the opposite for Meave, she started of full murder bot in season 1 and then became more relatable in her goals in season 2. So I guess that is where it comes from for most people, they both had more likeable goals in different seasons. People warmed up to Maeve because they saw 'progress' and they were turned off by Dolores because she seemingly went from understandable and someone you could be rooting for to outright 'take no prisoners' psychotic (I think acted pretty well).
Didn't care so much for the fact that everyone is slowly being turned into a host
Spoiler:
Stubbs
Great show, amazing body count in the last two episodes. Overall enjoyed it greatly, with the only thing bothering me the incredible stupidity of park 'security' and the 'veteran killteam'. Seriously people, PMCs today have attack helicopters and you have a multi billion dollar park, would it have been that much trouble to replace a bunch of redshirts (which they seem to have hundreds of at the rate season 2 was going at) with a couple of attack helicopters? I feel like 3/4ths of the humans died to their own stupidity as opposed to the hosts being clever. Yeah you cpuld say the underestimated the hosts, but once your first buddy gets shot you don't keep going lile you're trying to re-ennact the battle of Waterloo.
Also I have to say, Westworld and British India world sounds incredibly boring when you could have much more immersive places like Shogun world or Rome world or whatever else you could think of, lile Jurassic Park world inception
I do feel its progressed really quickly and looking forward to seeing what they are going to do in S3 - apparentl West World will be in it -
I need it and I need it now
Athough the
Spoiler:
host data storage orbs she took and the machine to create more bodies
give some freedom for S3. Its going to take forever before S3 airs. Didn't they plan for at least 5 seasons or something. Sadly we will likely have to miss the amazing performances of Hopkins from now on.
. Sadly we will likely have to miss the amazing performances of Hopkins from now on.
We thought that about Season 2 and he did say to Bernard that he may see him again - could be as a figment of his imagination or as a ghost in the machine - we know West World have upload Tech so Ford could have gone anywhere if he wanted to.
. Sadly we will likely have to miss the amazing performances of Hopkins from now on.
We thought that about Season 2 and he did say to Bernard that he may see him again - could be as a figment of his imagination or as a ghost in the machine - we know West World have upload Tech so Ford could have gone anywhere if he wanted to.
The last time you know what Ford was to Bernard uhum... The last scene also felt very final.
As for the upload tech, Ford was in the you know what, with no hint of him being somewhere else. I assume he wasn't in the other device seeing as that would have uncovered his season 1 plans to Delos, seeing as how much it seems to be able to dive into the memories of James Delos. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be final considering the Dolores and Barnold dynamic, I just feel like Ford's story has run to its natural course going full circle on the bicameral mind part/episode.
The season 1 finale with Ford meanwhile very much felt like a trick, to the extent I thought he was making hosts of himself to further his plot at that point. Seems he figured out a more clever solution (or dumb seeing how close he got to an explosive ending moments later).
. Sadly we will likely have to miss the amazing performances of Hopkins from now on.
We thought that about Season 2 and he did say to Bernard that he may see him again - could be as a figment of his imagination or as a ghost in the machine - we know West World have upload Tech so Ford could have gone anywhere if he wanted to.
The last time you know what Ford was to Bernard uhum... The last scene also felt very final.
As for the upload tech, Ford was in the you know what, with no hint of him being somewhere else. I assume he wasn't in the other device seeing as that would have uncovered his season 1 plans to Delos, seeing as how much it seems to be able to dive into the memories of James Delos. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be final considering the Dolores and Barnold dynamic, I just feel like Ford's story has run to its natural course going full circle on the bicameral mind part/episode.
The season 1 finale with Ford meanwhile very much felt like a trick, to the extent I thought he was making hosts of himself to further his plot at that point. Seems he figured out a more clever solution (or dumb seeing how close he got to an explosive ending moments later).
Could be - we could also have flashbacks - with or without AH?
Disciple of Fate wrote: True, but I feel like flashbacks would be a bit cheap after they just used two entire seasons as a setup
Maybe - mutiple timelines is kinda there thing and we will now have quite a few era's that we can explore including the process that created Westworld, the world in which it is a escape - I think they said 3 million people had been. The rebuild and the future.
Disciple of Fate wrote: True, but I feel like flashbacks would be a bit cheap after they just used two entire seasons as a setup
Maybe - mutiple timelines is kinda there thing and we will now have quite a few era's that we can explore including the process that created Westworld, the world in which it is a escape - I think they said 3 million people had been. The rebuild and the future.
4 million even, which isn't all that much in 30 years really, must be super expensive. Still pretty unclear what the evil plan with it was.
Disciple of Fate wrote: True, but I feel like flashbacks would be a bit cheap after they just used two entire seasons as a setup
Maybe - mutiple timelines is kinda there thing and we will now have quite a few era's that we can explore including the process that created Westworld, the world in which it is a escape - I think they said 3 million people had been. The rebuild and the future.
4 million even, which isn't all that much in 30 years really, must be super expensive. Still pretty unclear what the evil plan with it was.
I think the stated plan was to copy all visitors and then either mine their minds ot replece them but the tech did not work properely for the latter.
The idea that the hats were important was ....odd - half the people did not wear one and it cetainly not the case in Shogun world or Raj World. Still its agood show.
Still hoping Angela is around in some form (hoping one of those memory cores)
Yeah that's the vibe you get, some evil plan to body snatch important people. But then they switch track to the immortality argument.
Yup, the hat statement was ridiculous, although it did spawn a great joke: Robot understanding of human sex life is going to be based of a few freaks who keep their hats on during sex.
I asume Angela was lost due to the explosion, but that doesn't matter anymore it seems.
Its a great show, that's what makes the little flaws so obvious
Agreed - she seduced and sacrifced herself - given she was pretty self aware i was surprised how willing she was to kill herself without a back up plan - she was one of the oldest hosts so hoping if the actress is happy to continue she will return in some form.
Not sure who else would be in the cores - D's dad yeah but who else - Teddy is where Teddy is. maybe a version of Maeve and I can't see why one of them was not Bernard?
Also was the
Spoiler:
park cheif security guy
also a host? Seemed to be implying he was?
On the Hats - imagining the hosts having to keep come up with reasons for guests to keep their hat on at all times.
Mr Morden wrote: Agreed - she seduced and sacrifced herself - given she was pretty self aware i was surprised how willing she was to kill herself without a back up plan - she was one of the oldest hosts so hoping if the actress is happy to continue she will return in some form.
Not sure who else would be in the cores - D's dad yeah but who else - Teddy is where Teddy is. maybe a version of Maeve and I can't see why one of them was not Bernard?
Also was the
Spoiler:
park cheif security guy
also a host? Seemed to be implying he was?
On the Hats - imagining the hosts having to keep come up with reasons for guests to keep their hat on at all times.
Well seeing as how we got Bernard based on Arnold I assume we could get Angela back the same way, hell everyone could be recreated like that. Even Ford or Bernard's buddy.
Yeah she had 5, one was Bernard, one could be Angela depending on if her head was left intact, because Dolores had access to the same facility again. The other 3? Possibly Teddy as she might have just copied the files and not wiped them off the core? Possibly the dad of course, although he is scrambled beyond recovery perhaps. Can't really think of any other major characters she might have had access to. Lawrence died in the wrong place. Anyone remember any major characters that had their bodies dragged to the Mesa?
The hat thing was terrible, it makes no sense in hindsight and another reason could have easily been thought off, because they could access the memories of James Delos long before he ever went to the park. They should have just made up something about the train scanning you going into and out if the park, because we have been shown they can just extract the memories and distill the decision making process based on that.
Disciple of Fate wrote: I think the issue with Dolores for many people in season 2 was that it felt so out of character (hah) and extreme in season 2 compared to 1. It was exactly the opposite for Meave, she started of full murder bot in season 1 and then became more relatable in her goals in season 2. So I guess that is where it comes from for most people, they both had more likeable goals in different seasons. People warmed up to Maeve because they saw 'progress' and they were turned off by Dolores because she seemingly went from understandable and someone you could be rooting for to outright 'take no prisoners' psychotic (I think acted pretty well)..
Well...no gak. Did everybody just miss the point in Season 1 when Ford literally reprogrammed Delores with a new personality called Wyatt? Dolores is not Dolores anymore. She's a Dolores-Wyatt hybrid.
Dolores is acting entirely in character...for a person who effectively has a split personality.
Disciple of Fate wrote: I think the issue with Dolores for many people in season 2 was that it felt so out of character (hah) and extreme in season 2 compared to 1. It was exactly the opposite for Meave, she started of full murder bot in season 1 and then became more relatable in her goals in season 2. So I guess that is where it comes from for most people, they both had more likeable goals in different seasons. People warmed up to Maeve because they saw 'progress' and they were turned off by Dolores because she seemingly went from understandable and someone you could be rooting for to outright 'take no prisoners' psychotic (I think acted pretty well)..
Well...no gak. Did everybody just miss the point in Season 1 when Ford literally reprogrammed Delores with a new personality called Wyatt? Dolores is not Dolores anymore. She's a Dolores-Wyatt hybrid.
Dolores is acting entirely in character...for a person who effectively has a split personality.
I think its more complicated than that. Wyatt was always a part of Dolores as its what Arnold put in her. Hell with the scenes included of her building Bernard its pretty clear that she can remember her actions and life far better then we're led to believe. If anything Wyatt is Dolores' true self, just with the inhibitions shut down, just like caring Maeve is the true self unlike her programming leading her through season 1.
But in general, nobody missed the point, I was just pointing out why people disliked her character is season 2, crazy Dolores just isn't relatable compared to her season 1 version.
Thought this season was a bit all over the place personally.
I think the samurai/indian episodes were nice ideas but not sandwiched in as they were. They broke up the main plot too much and almost felt like a spin off show.
The first half of the season was enjoyable but lost its way unfortunately.
