Hello all!
A lot of people seem to have given our new GW game a warm welcome, and since i always had a soft spot for kill team i am quite happy.
Still, many threads about the tactics of various factions and no space marines :(
What are your thoughts about adeptus astartes kill team composition?
Is a varied approach (tacs, scouts and primaris together) better or to stick with mono-tacs. mono primaris etc.?
Which seem to be the better weapons and specialisms? Also, better off shooting or closing the gap and charge?
I had a first draft of a tac kill team in mind, but not played yet:
Tac sgt with chainsword and auspex
Tac gunner with heavy bolter
Tac marine
Tac marine
Scout with sniper rifle, camo cloak
Intercessor sgt with chainsword
Reiver sgt with combat knife and grapnel launcher
Sniper and heavy bolter provide long range, the sgts are more cc oriented and the tac marines are.. well tactical What do you think?
1. Their ability to bring 4 sargs makes them pretty good at melee.
2. Scout gunner with missile launcher, camo cloak and <sniper> seems pretty scary and durable.
3. Intercessors are very durable for only a few points more than a bolter tac, and have a better gun. This means the only real reason to take tacs is the special and heavy weapons, and the auspex.
4. Reivers are pretty scary in close combat.
5. Sniper scouts are durable and dangerous. Bolter scouts are cheap but somewhat lackluster.
For my first try at a general list, I'd do something like this:
Depending on the matchup, I think three sniper scouts could replace the two intercessor gunners. The rest seems pretty solid to me though. You could also go more melee oriented with reivers.
The nice thing about Marines is that they can pretty much do anything. In ranked play, you can have a pretty wide variety of options in your 20 available models.
IDK maybe snipers are overpower in this game and I just don't know about it yet? Or is AP useless in this game like it is in 40k now that invulns are everywhere?
I've played some games of KT and with space marines.
Here's my few thoughts after some games. I've played against Tau, Nidz, chaos and DG.
It's very hard to wound with one shot sniper rifle. I've had from 0-2 snipers in my KT, making a scout sgt your leader felt the best way to bring it, but I think I haven't scored a single 6 on wound rolls or managed to wound any models with the sniper rifle. Leader in the front-line has felt a stupid idea almost every time, if you want to take juice out of it, you need to enter melee and when it dies, it's 1 CP / turn for you. That's why a shooty 2W primaris or that scout sergeant with rifle and camo cloak feels a good option, when it forces you to play from distance.
Btw, marines can't get zealot. I've run my combat specialist as intercessor sergeant with power sword and variety of bolt rifles, stock feels best at this point.
In my last game I had my sniper specialist a heavy bolter scout to get rerolls to ones and use the +1 to hit stratagem. I changed to scout from tactical marine, because it's just cheaper.
Missile launcher is quite expensive add-on, but making it your heavy specialist you can shoot two shots with your krakk missiles with only 1 CP. Atleast that's how we interpreted the level 1 stratagem from heavies. Also heavy specialist ignores the "heavy -1 to hit penalty from moving).
In this game all modifiers basically affect to hit rolls and you wil get several negatives on it during the game. Keep that in mind.
What models I would recommend to take are: the above mentioned primaris sergeant combat specialist with power sword and an intercessor gunner with aux grenade launcher and stalker bolt rifle.
Today's list was:
Leader - tac sergeant with power sword and plasma pistol - (mediocre)
Heavy - scout with missile launcher (more testing needed if 4+ sv is enough)
Combat - Intercessor sergeant with power sword and bolt rifle (4 attacks with power sword and 2 wounds, goodie)
Sniper - scout with heavy bolter (needs more testing)
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and aux. grenade launcher (30" grenade without penalty from over half range is nice)
tactical marine with flamer (auto hit and volume of dice is nice, get my shy approval.)
Have to say that man death guard with their T5 3+ sv and 5+ disgustingly resilient rolls are pain in my boot when companied with ~6-9 poxwalkers.
The missile launcher has AP, and should kill pretty much anything it hits with the comms and auspex buffs. There are probably some situations where you'd want double heavy bolters, though.
It matched play it's probably also worth it to have some stock intercessors for some additional AP1 if you run into a lot of Marines or something, but lots of factions don't have a ton of armor, and cover doesn't improve armor saves in kill team.
Sniper rifles seem okay to me because they hit on 3s and the mortal wound crit is pretty good, and the model is cheap.
You obviously can't use the heavy stratagem to fire 2 krak missiles. It very clearly says it doesn't work if you'd normally only fire one shot. I think you can use it to fire two frag missiles though - as D6 =/= 1... usually.
I think that bolt rifle intercessors look like great models in kill team. I agree with most people that the standard bolt rifle looks best, as that option to push your half range band out 3" should mean you can get 2 shots and no hit penalty a lot, while only receiving 1 shot at -1 to hit in return.
For 16 points a gunner with grenade launcher is really good. You can make those frag grenades wound concealed targets really easily, and as a grenade weapon it doesn't get penalties to hit at long range, or for moving. I'd take two, making one a demolitions specialist and the other a sniper. A third guy should be a comms specialist I think.
I'm not 100% sure what the best specialists are. Leader and demolitions seem more or less mandatory. I think Comms is good, though its stratagem doesn't seem brilliant for marines. Making a Primaris Sergeant with power sword a combat specialist seems interesting, though it then means you need someone else to be your leader.
Scout and veteran are ok, but probably not required. It's a shame that Grapnel launchers only work with normal moves, so it doesn't combo with a scout's speedy advancing - though it does work if you just add 2" to their move with the stratagem and with a veteran's pre-game move.
I'm not sure whether stalker rifles are a good idea. I mostly prefer the standard rifle, though the stratagem is quite good. It's arguably a good option to twin with a grenade launcher, because you can then fire that if you move. I'd consider giving my sniper specialist a stalker/grenade launcher and my demolitions guy a standard bolt rifle/grenade launcher. I don't see myself taking an auto rifle at all, except maybe if I went for that sergeant combat specialist, letting him shoot a bit as he got into position. The standard rifle seems best in 90% of situations.
AP isn't as necessary because cover (which is super prevalent in KT) doesn't provide that +1 to the save. Its still nice to have around though. Also, make sure your using your grenade every turn that you can. Seriously, having a free Str 6 -1 d3 damage is super useful, especially for those multi-wound models. Even better VS Thousand Sons.
I don't run intercessors because I don't have them, but they seem pretty potent in KT as some solid meat to put in front of your heavy hitters.
Weazel wrote: The heavy tactic would not let you fire two frag missiles, but D6+1 shots on a frag missile. And certainly not two krak missile shots, as mentioned.
My bad, have used the strat with heavy bolter and blight launcher (DG) mostly anyways.
Btw, what are your thoughts with a tac sgt leader with auspex and grav pistol. Modeling an auspex model and thinking which pistol to go with. Wondering if grav pistol actually has it's place as last protection.
An auspex is great. Annoying that it’s not an option for intercessors - I’ve got an intercessor with one. He’s out of the first strike box, which is a great way to get a primaris kill team.
Thinking of running a Reiver list with 5 Reivers (inc sarge) and a Sniper Scout as Leader. However I'm not quite sure how to kit the Reivers. Grappling hooks are pretty much a no-brainer but Grav Chutes seem pretty situational, so I'm looking to save points by ditching them.
However should I just put carbines on all of them or keep the sarge and maybe another guy with a knife and pistol? The pistol is the only source of -AP in the list which is probably the biggest weakness of the list overall. But the guys are mobile AF and pretty durable with 2 wounds each.
I think it might make sense to bring both an intercessor and Reiver sergeant. Both are worth a lot more than 1 point more than the standard guys I think.
And it also seems to make sense to bring a guy with auxiliary grenade launcher, because they’re great.
So I guess my point is that I’d probably mix reivers and intercessors. I’m not sure what the best mix is, but the two sergeants and grenade guy seem pretty good.
Mandragola wrote: I think it might make sense to bring both an intercessor and Reiver sergeant. Both are worth a lot more than 1 point more than the standard guys I think.
And it also seems to make sense to bring a guy with auxiliary grenade launcher, because they’re great.
So I guess my point is that I’d probably mix reivers and intercessors. I’m not sure what the best mix is, but the two sergeants and grenade guy seem pretty good.
Okay sure, but for this discussion can we focus on Reiver loadout? I don't have any Intercessors and I'm not probably going to purchase any since I have a lot of other KT ideas brewing up. So do I bring knives to a gunfight or nay? And Grav Chutes, yay or nay?
The Sarge should have a knife and carbine, that's optimized and the cheapest loadout. Grapnel Launchers are quite valuable for traversing Kill Team's terrain, but the Grav Chutes don't seem to add as much versatility. I'd pass on those. As to standard reiver loadout, both are good. It depends on what you want that particular marine to do.
I think you should probably bring guns on most guys, but it’s quite a tough call. The extra range of carbines probably means you’ll get more attacks over the course of a game with guns than swords. But you might want a scout, veteran or combat specialist designed to go forward, who might want a sword. Actually the scout probably wants a carbine, so he can shoot as he runs around.
You can probably treat upgrades like grappling hooks on a case by case basis. Not everyone needs everything. Maybe take a couple of guys who aren’t specialists and give them just carbines. Chutes are more valuable to guys who have grapples, because they’re the ones likely to be up high in the first place.
I'm scheduling a newbie test event this friday with DG, Nids and two SM armies.
My experience is that our most auto-include unit is the combat specialist intercessor sergeant with a power sword. I don't see a point to give reiver sergeant the specialism when you can have a power sword.
Also not tested, but on paper what feels good is our tactical marine gunner with a flamer as demolitions specialist. +1 to wound if target is obscured and you can boost it with the stratagem. So even if it's S4, it'll wound stuff on 2+ if you want. Not the DG version of the super flamer, but not bad either. My SM lists one has a flamer demolitioner and second has a demolitions specialist with heavy bolter.
My lists are for the newbies as followed:
Blood Angels
Leader: Scout sergeant with sniper and camo cloak
Demolitions: tactical marine gunner with heavy bolter
Sniper: tactical marine sergeant with combi-plasma
Combat: Intercessor sergeant with power sword and bolt rifle
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and auxiliary grenade launcher
Reiver sergeant with combat knife, heavy bolt pistol, grav chutes and grapnel launcher
Dark Angels
Leader: Tactical sergeant with auspex and grav pistol
Combat: Intercessor sergeant with power sword and bolt rifle
Demolitions: Tactical marine gunner with flamer
Heavy: Tactical marine gunner with heavy bolter
Reiver sergeant with combat knife, heavy bolt pistol, grav chutes and grapnel launcher
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and auxiliary grenade launcher
Intercessor x2 w/ bolt rifles
Intercessor Gunner w/ Sniper spec and stalker
Intercessor Gunner w/ Demo spec
Intercessor sarge w/ PS and bolt rifle and Combat spec
Reiver Sarge w/ rifle and blade and leader spec
My thoughts:
The space marine strats are insanely good. The fact that the Reiver Sarge can charge a flamer and throw his shock grenade first is amazing (flying into combat with frag cannons). The intercessor stalker +1 to hit and +1 to wound for 1 cp is amazing (2+ to hit rr 1, 2+ to W vs. T3).
Anything that gets charged by either sarge gets instantly injured from weight of attacks (especially the intercessor sarge). Having 2 wounds and having transhuman phys makes you VERY tanky.
Krak grenades at 30" range DO WORK. When I get the grenade cache, I basically instantly win.
missile launchers are the way I feel. Scouts with camo cloaks and missile launchers with an auspex and comms near them. Two scout missile launcher. One tactical heavy bolter. One flamer/plasma then tac sarge with auspex and scout sarge and a final scout to chump block.
You are regularly hitting with a missile launcher on twos rerolling ones, which is good, but then you have so many ways to mitigate damage so that return fire cannot take out your launchers.
Intercessor x2 w/ bolt rifles
Intercessor Gunner w/ Sniper spec and stalker
Intercessor Gunner w/ Demo spec
Intercessor sarge w/ PS and bolt rifle and Combat spec
Reiver Sarge w/ rifle and blade and leader spec
My thoughts:
The space marine strats are insanely good. The fact that the Reiver Sarge can charge a flamer and throw his shock grenade first is amazing (flying into combat with frag cannons). The intercessor stalker +1 to hit and +1 to wound for 1 cp is amazing (2+ to hit rr 1, 2+ to W vs. T3).
Anything that gets charged by either sarge gets instantly injured from weight of attacks (especially the intercessor sarge). Having 2 wounds and having transhuman phys makes you VERY tanky.
Krak grenades at 30" range DO WORK. When I get the grenade cache, I basically instantly win.
That’s pretty much exactly the list I drew up. Only thing I’d change is to add an auspex, if you were allowed to. And maybe I’d run a comms spec guy instead of a sniper - I’m not sure.
The alternative option I comsidered was to have a 5 man intercessor squad and a couple of scouts with bolters. Having 7 guys would give you a few advantages over a squad of 6.
Of course there's a marine tactica. Man, I have no idea why I even post threads haha.
Anyway, why are people arming 2 people with Auxiliary Grenade Launchers? They can't both shoot it in the same turn. Or is it because they're so cheap and you may as well take another as a backup?
It is really cheap, and sometimes only 1 of them can see an enemy. Also, 1 can get punked by a missile right away. The sniper is better against units out of cover and the demo is better when in they are in cover.
Scout sgt with sniper rifle and camo cloak
Tac sgt with combi-plasma
Tac gunner with heavy bolter
Intercessor sgt with bolt rifle and power sword
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and auxilliary grenade launcher
Reiver sgt with bolt carbine, combat knife, grapnel launcher and grav shute.
It comes down to 99 pts. I do not believe grav shute to be much use but i can't see any other options to spend my last 2 pts (any suggestions are most welcome).
Concerning specialisms, i consider giving:
leader to the scout sgt (hoping for him to be as much away from trouble as possible and securing the extra command point every round)
sniper to the combi-plasma sgt (re-roll 1s for safer charged shots),
combat to the intercessor with power sword (4 cc attacks)
and not sure what to give to the heavy bolter gunner... comms? heavy? demo? Which one do you think fits best?
Indeed that is a good suggestion if one goes the scout way.
Another problem that is potentially overlooked is that the tac sgt can not both a combi-weapon and an auspex, as it is currently written in the manual...
Also, i could drop the heavy bolter and the grav shute and get a missile launcher instead.
So the question is hb or ml? Which one do you think is best?
ML sure has versatility and range but the hellfire shell tactic with mortal wounds seems too good to pass...
spartiatis wrote: Indeed that is a good suggestion if one goes the scout way.
Another problem that is potentially overlooked is that the tac sgt can not both a combi-weapon and an auspex, as it is currently written in the manual...
Also, i could drop the heavy bolter and the grav shute and get a missile launcher instead.
So the question is hb or ml? Which one do you think is best?
ML sure has versatility and range but the hellfire shell tactic with mortal wounds seems too good to pass...
Both.
You don't need a combi weapon. Ideally your sarge is never in LoS. He's there to buff your shooters with auspex and being your comms.
Primaris marines are being over emphasized. adding an extra wound doesn't help that much since you can easily deflect or take flesh wounds, You shouldn't have more than one or two bolters anyways.
Soo is there anything else to spend your command points other than the overpowered Death Denied (can't remember if that's the actual name) tactic. I feel you just have to have 2 cp at hand at all times to save your guys from demise.
Weazel wrote: Soo is there anything else to spend your command points other than the overpowered Death Denied (can't remember if that's the actual name) tactic. I feel you just have to have 2 cp at hand at all times to save your guys from demise.
The one where you take a mortal wound after failing a saving throw with a model within 3 inches. The way mortal wounds work you reduce down any multi damage to just one roll and protect more important models.
Sniper remains a strong choice of course in certain situations. On rare occasion, the hellfire shell is useful,
Only one Tac Gunner can have a missile launcher or heavy bolter. You'll want to turn one of them into a scout gunner. (Probably the 'launcher so they can snag the camo cloak)
I'm surprised so few people here are interested in racking up extra Command Points. The following is the "lean" list I've drafted for my Space Marines.
This totals out to 64 points. My intent is to allow my Marines to be mobile while employing the Stalker Rifle. I like to deny my opponent their die rolls as often as I can, so I chose to focus on AP to negate their rolls. I also took the Sniper speciality for the Gunners to offset the -1 penalty to shooting Heavy weapons when moving.
I also have not yet played ANY games of kill team and do not come from a 40k background, so this may fail completely. We'll soon see.
Americanus_Astartes wrote: I'm surprised so few people here are interested in racking up extra Command Points. The following is the "lean" list I've drafted for my Space Marines.
This totals out to 64 points. My intent is to allow my Marines to be mobile while employing the Stalker Rifle. I like to deny my opponent their die rolls as often as I can, so I chose to focus on AP to negate their rolls. I also took the Sniper speciality for the Gunners to offset the -1 penalty to shooting Heavy weapons when moving.
I also have not yet played ANY games of kill team and do not come from a 40k background, so this may fail completely. We'll soon see.
You can't take 2 of the same specialists in a Kill Team.
Ork-en Man wrote: [
You can't take 2 of the same specialists in a Kill Team.
Oops.
I'll just change one of the Gunners to Heavy, then.
I am afraid that an Intercessor or Intercessor Gunner cannot be a Heavy specialist, so your Stalker Bolt Rifles will pay that -1 penalty if you move.
You will likely find in most missions that having just those four models at 100 points to be a major disadvantage. Anything with objectives will be a struggle that extra CPs will likely not make up. Still, give it a whirl and let us know.
I am afraid that an Intercessor or Intercessor Gunner cannot be a Heavy specialist, so your Stalker Bolt Rifles will pay that -1 penalty if you move.
You will likely find in most missions that having just those four models at 100 points to be a major disadvantage. Anything with objectives will be a struggle that extra CPs will likely not make up. Still, give it a whirl and let us know.
Yeah, messed that one up, too. Second Intercessor will have to take Demolitions Specialty.
So, has anyone yet entered any friendly tourneys or some such?
We are planning on a friendly matched play games, not a campaign, just several games in up coming weeks with one roster. Still arguing whether we should add exp and level up..
I'm thinking making some batreps for these games, but before we go into gaming there's a SM command roster that needs some tweaking.
Any insight is welcome, what I'm missing, I think the scouts section can be most easily replaced by something I'm truly lacking.. but anyways, here we go:
(btw, what would be your thought on adding exp in friendly command roster gaming?)
IDK maybe snipers are overpower in this game and I just don't know about it yet? Or is AP useless in this game like it is in 40k now that invulns are everywhere?
I’m afraid Astartes don’t grt to take Zealot, and you haven’t got enough AP to be effective against MEQ in your list either...
Missile launcher is quite expensive add-on, but making it your heavy specialist you can shoot two shots with your krakk missiles with only 1 CP. Atleast that's how we interpreted the level 1 stratagem from heavies. Also heavy specialist ignores the "heavy -1 to hit penalty from moving).
That tactic does not apply to weapons with 1 shot only, so no Missle Launcher, sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, I've played about 10 games so far, and here are my thoughts.
The injury roll adds an extra dice layer that is a barrier to removing a model. with the modifier for being obscured, any weapon in the game that makes it all the way past all the hit mods, wound roll, and the armour save, still only has a 33% chance of removing the model if it is behind cover (17% percent if it's in cover with reanimation protocols!). You are shooting at each model with 1 model at a time. I can not emphasize enough how difficult this makes it to remove models. MEQ vs MEQ, a single unmodified attack only has a 5.54% chance of an OOA result. That means you need 10 guys with bolters within 12" firing at a single MEQ model out in the open to be fairly certain of removing it that turn.
You NEED to bypass dice layers with high Strength and AP. You also need to have a lot of that spread around, as the low volume of dice, LOS blocking terrain, and the annoying possibility of having your one spec/ hvy weapons sniped turn 1 before they even fire a shot, are all working against you. Just as importantly, you need multi-damage weapons, as they give you multiple injury rolls, where multiple single-damage unsaved wounds from something like a heavy bolter do not.
Space Marines also suffer from a low model count which is why I don't recommend Comms and similar buffs that come from a nearby model, as you are now devoting two models worth of resources to trying to make 1 model work. One model that may get focus fired, or sniped off the table before your team fires a shot.
The game will end at the end of turn 4 33% of the time, and the end of 5 33% of the time. the games are short. You need some extra resilience in order to be able to go for it when it comes to getting across the board to your objectives without delay. Youy can't always hide in cover. Primaris are great for this, but they die to multi damage weapons just like anything else, so you need a strong shooting element that can deal with that stuff very quickly from a distance if possible as early in the game as possible.
Combat is strong; unless you are fighting across a barrier or flesh wounded, there are no hit mods. If you've got the right models fighting you can roll a bunch of dice. It's also great for tying up the enemy and keeping your own guys safe from shooting. It's not all good news though. A Reiver Sergeant/ Combat Spec has 5 attacks, but with no AP, against MEQ count on fights dragging out for a LONG time regardless (would need 4 of those, for strong odds to remove MEQ as per our math above. Because the attacks are single dam, and grouped in 5's, extra unsaved wounds are lost, and so this is even worse odds than the 10 Rapid Fire Bolters). The Power Sword, and better yet, the Power Fist are your friend. A Fist along with the tactic that lets you fight a second time deletes MEQ at a frightening pace. Watch out for DE and Harleys though as they have invulns in combat and some scary stuff to use against you.
People seem to be digging the Missle Launcher. For the points, I like the Intercessor Gunner with Auxillary Grenade Launcher. It's 16 points same as a Scout with ML, more durable, and it doesn't eat up a spec slot to move and shoot without penalty.
You can't afford to lose model resources to bad luck, so save your reroll tactic (you can only use 1 per Battle Round not per phase!) to reroll saves (or to reroll 1's on Plasma, unless you're smart and took the Sniper Spec), and you NEED the Death Denied card from the SW box that turns an OOA result into a Flesh Wound. You don't want to be caught without the ability to use these, so that means you need to resist the temptation to play other silly tactics that are only going to bend a single dice roll by +-1 or worse yet just let you reroll a 1 (except for SC Plasma obvs), and Make sure you've got 3 CP the top of the turn if you can, and KEEP YOUR LEADER ALIVE! . If they go unspent at the end of the turn, and you get to swing last, the tactic that lets you fight a second time can be scary as mentioned above.
You don't have to choose your team until after you've rolled for mission. Fill out your Command Roster, and have all the models available. Depending on your opponent's faction and the mission, you may want some volume of dice, or you may want straight high Str/AP/Dam. You may want shooting, or you may want combat, or a mix. be prepared for different matchups.
A list I'm going to try soon is this:
Tac Sgt LDR Power Fist, Plasma Pistol 18pts
Intrcssr Sgt CBT Auto Bolt Rifle, Power Sword 18pts
Tac Gunner SNP Plasma Gun 16pts
Scout gunner HVY Missle Launcher 14pts
Tac Gunner 16 Melta Gun 16pts
Intercessor Gunner Aux Grenade Launcher 16pts
Weboflies wrote: You can't afford to lose model resources to bad luck, so save your reroll tactic (you can only use 1 per Battle Round not per phase!)
Actually it's once per phase:
"Unless otherwise stated, you can use the same Tactic multiple times during the course of a battle, but only once in any given phase."
"TACTICAL RE-ROLL
Re-roll a single Advance roll, charge roll, Psychic test, Deny the Witch test, hit roll, wound roll, saving throw, Injury roll or Nerve test."
Weboflies wrote: You can't afford to lose model resources to bad luck, so save your reroll tactic (you can only use 1 per Battle Round not per phase!)
Actually it's once per phase:
"Unless otherwise stated, you can use the same Tactic multiple times during the course of a battle, but only once in any given phase."
"TACTICAL RE-ROLL
Re-roll a single Advance roll, charge roll, Psychic test, Deny the Witch test, hit roll, wound roll, saving throw, Injury roll or Nerve test."
You know, that's what I thought, but my opponent insisted yesterday that it was once per round. He seemed like he knew what he was talking about, so I didn't look it up. Guess he didn't haha.
To weboflies's post: great points, you hit the mark!
Correct me if i am wrong but in your killteam you list 2 tac gunners one with a plasmagun and one with a meltagun. I believe the rulebook forbids this combination. One gunner can take one of the "special" weapons and the other gunner one of the "heavy" weapons.
Also, what do you think of the gravgun? Would you consider taking one?
spartiatis wrote: To weboflies's post: great points, you hit the mark!
Correct me if i am wrong but in your killteam you list 2 tac gunners one with a plasmagun and one with a meltagun. I believe the rulebook forbids this combination. One gunner can take one of the "special" weapons and the other gunner one of the "heavy" weapons.
Also, what do you think of the gravgun? Would you consider taking one?
Right you are. Crumbs, I guess I’m going to have to go HB with him.
I don’t care for the Grav option when I’ve got Plasma available.Supercharged Plasma’s got better range, +1 to wound comared to Grav, it doen’t need to be vs 3+ to give you multiple injury rolls, and I’ll take straight 2 Dam over D3 any day. Anychance you give the dice to let youdown, they will. Just need to do a little planning around “Gets Hot” by either making your Plasma Gunner a Sniper, or saving CP and Tactic assets to bail you out if he rolls that 1, which you really ought to be doing anyway.
I was wondering what do people think of the auxilary grenade launcher?
I must say I find it quite intereating. It is a 30 ranged weapon. Combine that with scouts with missile launcher/heavy bolter, a marine with ranged heavy wepon and one with a apecial weapon, as well as a captain with a combi wepon and matines have axcess to a lot of good weapons.
I only did one test game, but special weapons looked good.
Personally - that aux. 'nade launcher looks nice. It's still the grenade profile, so no penalty to hit at range (unless I've missed something), it's only 2 points (have to take the extra point for the gunner into account), the intercessor has both frag and krak.
There's nothing not to like really. Only downside is you can only take it on the gunners and you can only use one of them each turn - so that probably means unless you have the points left over, you only really want one.
Should add, I haven't used it yet.
I play deathwatch when I use marines, and my special weapons are generally more useful than an intercessor with a 'nade launcher for the same cost.
He should be pretty durable in cover and put out decent damage at long range with -2 AP and all the potential bonuses they can get:
- +1 to wound obscured targets from Lvl 1 Demolitions
- +1 to wound from the Lvl 1 Demolitions Specialist tactic.
- +1 to hit and wound for the "Masterful Marksmanship" Astartes tactic (only Stalker Bolt Rifle)
- + 2 Damage with the Lvl 3 Demolitions Specialist tactic
- +3" range and reroll 1s for the grenade launcher
- +1 to Injury rolls for obscured targets
This plus a Tac Seargeant (Comms) with Auspex nearby should put quite a dent in many things.
- +1 to wound obscured targets from Lvl 1 Demolitions
- +1 to wound from the Lvl 1 Demolitions Specialist tactic.
- +1 to hit and wound for the "Masterful Marksmanship" Astartes tactic (only Stalker Bolt Rifle)
Yeah. If I start playing kill team SM seems like a fun team to do. I still have my old SM. Kitbashing a primaris easy to build with a.g.launcher could be fun.
How are peoples thoughts in the reiver? Having free vertical movement means you can hide behind a wall and charge them. The downside is he is not that good in CC. While he has the number of attacks, he would be outclassed vs dedicated CC opponents. Thoughts?
Niiai wrote: Yeah. If I start playing kill team SM seems like a fun team to do. I still have my old SM. Kitbashing a primaris easy to build with a.g.launcher could be fun.
How are peoples thoughts in the reiver? Having free vertical movement means you can hide behind a wall and charge them. The downside is he is not that good in CC. While he has the number of attacks, he would be outclassed vs dedicated CC opponents. Thoughts?
I'm afraid the vertical move only works for normal moves, so not when charging or retreating.
Niiai wrote: How are peoples thoughts in the reiver? Having free vertical movement means you can hide behind a wall and charge them. The downside is he is not that good in CC. While he has the number of attacks, he would be outclassed vs dedicated CC opponents. Thoughts?
The rules say you can't charge in vertical movements, which makes sense- you're not gonna rush a dude going up a ladder when he's standing up there. But the rules ALSO say that Reivers ignore vertical distance. But I think that's for 'normal movement' only. However, we still did it because it was goofy and fun.
We imagined it as his grapnel launcher being used to yank him forcefully to the higher level and just propelling him into the enemy like a screaming wrecking ball with a knife.
Wait, so I can or can not charge through a wall? I imagine batman from the archam asylum games.
also, I do not know if a 16 points for a interscessor with a grenade launcher is good enough. Both the frag and krak options seems like worse versions of the missile launcher.
Niiai wrote: Wait, so I can or can not charge through a wall? I imagine batman from the archam asylum games.
also, I do not know if a 16 points for a interscessor with a grenade launcher is good enough. Both the frag and krak options seems like worse versions of the missile launcher.
RAW you can't charge through walls with the grapnel launcher, but if you can apply house rules in your player group this seems like a fun suggestion.
As for the grenade launcher, you get a (Stalker) Bolt Rifle + Grenade Launcher for 0 points, so that's pretty good flexibility for free right there.
About Grapnel launchers: What's the difference between climbing an obstacle (= using movement for vertical distance) and ignoring vertical distances when moving? I charged over a ruined building (although it wasn't just a wall, it had a level) and didn't feel like I was cheating. If they don't work like that I seriously don't see the point in them.
lliu wrote: Reavers and ML scouts with camo cloaks.That's the breadwinner. I use a scout sergeant with sniper and cloak.
I’ve been playing quite a few games lately of various SMKT’s using Reivers, Intercessors, & Tacs, mostly matched play without using any of the boxed set tactic cards. Have to admit, Reiver Sarge is pretty solid as a leader with carbine & knife. Only units I haven’t used are scouts in any form. Cloaks look cool on paper but the cost of them is too close to Primaris for my taste. If I shut down enemies with multi D weapons before they take out my Primaris, I get into a stride that just mowes down the rest at range & CC, capture objectives, etc. 7.5pts per wound, a 3+ save 15” Rapid Fire at AP -1 for Primaris seems pretty strong.
I plan to assemble my scouts at some point just for kicks though.
People seem to be digging the Missle Launcher. For the points, I like the Intercessor Gunner with Auxillary Grenade Launcher. It's 16 points same as a Scout with ML, more durable, and it doesn't eat up a spec slot to move and shoot without penalty.
The missile launcher is fairly hard to kill when using the kill team box's cards. Spending CP to not die is the strongest Command ability in the game
People seem to be digging the Missle Launcher. For the points, I like the Intercessor Gunner with Auxillary Grenade Launcher. It's 16 points same as a Scout with ML, more durable, and it doesn't eat up a spec slot to move and shoot without penalty.
The missile launcher is fairly hard to kill when using the kill team box's cards. Spending CP to not die is the strongest Command ability in the game
Why use the CP if you don’t have to? Build up a pool, or take advantage of some of the other excellent ones like Honour the Chapter or Hellfire Shells if you can while the enemy whittles your 2 wound guy down?
I can confirm that the Aux Grenade launcher is great. I take it on an Intercessor that has the Demolitions specialism, pair him up with a buddy that has the Comms specialism.
Now, my d6 frag grenade has zero penalty for long range, hit's on 3's with the Comms buff if you're obscured, and then will wound t3 models on 3's and t4 models on 4's. I can spend a command point to then wound t3 models on 2's and t4 models on 3's.
Or, I use the frag grenade against tougher enemies, so it wounds on 2's against everything, has -1 ap, and can do d3 damage.
Demolitions + Aux Grenade launcher was MVP in my last couple of games, deleting Tau Pathfinders and Deathwatch Vets.
Niiai wrote: Am i reading this right? 2 scouts can have a heavy weapon?
Yes.
Two scouts with heavy.
Plus one tactical with heavy.
And one tactical with special.
And one tactical sergeant with combi.
A lot of points, but a lot of firepower...
Niiai wrote: Am i reading this right? 2 scouts can have a heavy weapon?
Yes.
Two scouts with heavy.
Plus one tactical with heavy.
And one tactical with special.
And one tactical sergeant with combi.
A lot of points, but a lot of firepower...
And you can add the primaris with the underslung grenade launcher. That is a lot of long ranged fire power. I suspect that we run out of points before that though.
What is our cheapest option, a 10 point scout? Any idea why the scouts have BS3? The only scouts that have that are SW one, but there is no frost axe option.
I'm a bit confused about how the Intercessor Sergeant eqiupment options are worded. So either you take a Power/Chain Sowrd in addition to the normal setup or you forfeit one of the guns? Doesn't make much sense to me ...
I'm a bit confused about how the Intercessor Sergeant eqiupment options are worded. So either you take a Power/Chain Sowrd in addition to the normal setup or you forfeit one of the guns? Doesn't make much sense to me ...
That’s just to allow you to use different models for the Intercessor Sergeant. With current (non-converted) bits and/or offical models (like the Anniversary sergeant) you can make a sergeant with a bolt pistol and boltgun, boltgun and CCW, bolt pistol and CCW, or all three. Doesn’t really mkae much sense to forfeit one of the weapons game-wise, though.
Few things that are odd about the list: Firstly, why is he intercessor sergeant not your leader? Have the reiver as CC Specialist. Second, a scout with missile launcher and camp cloak is more durable a lot of the time than an intercessor, and cheaper. Take that instead of the auxiliary grenade launcher. It costs points, and shoots grenades that are worse than missiles. I always take two scouts with camo cloak and missile launcher instead of intercessors. Lastly, I’ve always found the leader to be a cheap CP farm if anything. I always take a scout sergeant with camo cloak and sniper to hit that annoying thing in the back that may be bothering me. That, or a scout with a bolt gun. It’s not a bad idea, to have something big and multi wound as a leader, it’s just my take. I’ve found the points I save this way is often enough for an extra scout.
lliu wrote: Few things that are odd about the list: Firstly, why is he intercessor sergeant not your leader? Have the reiver as CC Specialist. Second, a scout with missile launcher and camp cloak is more durable a lot of the time than an intercessor, and cheaper. Take that instead of the auxiliary grenade launcher. It costs points, and shoots grenades that are worse than missiles. I always take two scouts with camo cloak and missile launcher instead of intercessors. Lastly, I’ve always found the leader to be a cheap CP farm if anything. I always take a scout sergeant with camo cloak and sniper to hit that annoying thing in the back that may be bothering me. That, or a scout with a bolt gun. It’s not a bad idea, to have something big and multi wound as a leader, it’s just my take. I’ve found the points I save this way is often enough for an extra scout.
Hey, thanks for commenting! I should have mentioned that I'm trying to stick to a Primaris-only build
So the idea behind the Intercessor Sergeant Combat Specialist is that he gets the Power Sword and one additional attack, so that's 4 Power Sword attacks at AP -3 compared to 4 Combat Knife attacks at AP 0 a Reiver would get.
I chose the Reiver Sergeant as a Leader because he's pretty durable and can get in and out of dodge rather comfortably with his Grapnel Launcher.
The Aux. grenade launcher doesn't cost any points, so there's really no downside to taking it, since it's the only "heavy" option Primaris get.
What donpeople think of the materfull markship stratagem? If it is done by a sniper specialist you hit on 1+ (2+ under most circumstances) and it wounds on 2+ or 3+ (curse you death guard.)
Gnollu wrote: Actually it costs 1 point. You need to take gunner to have aux grenade and gunner is 1 point more expensive than standard primaris tactical
Played a game vs CSM in Sunday with my Scout themed KT. Sniper Scout leader, Sniper Scout demo, Auspex sarge Comms, and Scout ML Sniper, with some spare Snipers, ccw, and bolter scouts.
Felt real dirty with the stacking +1,+1, rerolling ones ML.
Might have been offset by the fact that my Sniper rifles didn't do jack all game though.
I have been wrecking face by remembering to keep a CP reserve for Death Denied, Protecting my Leader, and running with:
Tac Sgt LDR Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
Intrcssr Sgt CBT Auto Bolt Rifle, Power Sword
Tac Gunner SNP Plasma Gun
Tac Gunner HVY Heavy Bolter
Scout Gunner Heavy Bolter
Intercessor Gunner Aux Grenade Launcher
My last 3 games I haven't even lost a model. It's kind of not even fair... I'm sure there's other lists that can beat it tho, I've been playing more than most guys locally.
Niiai wrote: I find your list interesting. 2 heavy bolters, no rocket launcher. How do they compare do you think?
Also, you have 2 melee units. Both a powerfist and a power sword. What does that give uou as opposed to more shooting?
What do you usualy face, as you never loose a model? That sounds odd.
That's only the last 3 games, but I was up against a fresh Necron build, another Space Marine team, and a fairly leveled up Dark Eldar team. Effective use of Death Denied combined with really potent shooting makes it very tough for your opponent. They costed the special/heavy weapons really low, I believe to account for the fragility of a single model that can be targeted freely by the enemy's whole force, but Space Marines probably have too much depth in terms of options, and their solid stats alongside Death Denied takes fragility off the table.
The Missle Launcher is actually quite good, and I think I had the points space for it in the list, but for some reason I painted the Heavy Bolter Scout instead, so that was that. Maybe I was thinking that with his lesser armour save the ML would make him too much of a target.
Melee is quite good in this game. A lot of the mission objectives involve crossing the table, or trying to get off the other side, so as Defender, you're going to want to use charges to catch models trying to break through, and as you will be outnumbered you will be wanting to delete models in 1 round of fighting so you can catch up with stragglers. This is where Power Weapons come in. The Plasma Pistol also gives you some very deadly close ranged shooting in a pinch. As Attacker, you're going to need these guys to make a hole, and or tie enemy models up in order to break through yourself. Regardless of mission, Your enemy may have a strong CC element, and you are going to want something to jump into the breach if your shooting is overwhelmed by speed or numbers. A scary Space marine that's ready to fight in combat may also make your opponent hesitate to get close, and with rolling for end of game at the end of turn 4, there is no time to hesitate in Kill Team.
On Friday i am facing my first Kill Team matches against Adeptus Mechanic, Tyranids and Dark Eldar. I will play my SM and really have no idea if my list will Works well. We only can bring one list and will fight one versus one and maybe a final round all vs all or by teams.
Leader: Intercessor sgt ( Bolt Rifle, Leader, Power Sword) 18p
On Friday i am facing my first Kill Team matches against Adeptus Mechanic, Tyranids and Dark Eldar. I will play my SM and really have no idea if my list will Works well. We only can bring one list and will fight one versus one and maybe a final round all vs all or by teams.
Leader: Intercessor sgt ( Bolt Rifle, Leader, Power Sword) 18p
Why is your CC dude your leader? He doesn't get bonus attacks, and he will probably die, considering the Tau have S6AP-4DD3 Rapid FIre weapons. Second thing, why so many Intercessor gunners? The extra wound may seem good, but with the tactics space marines have like death denied you don't need it. Take missile launchers, they're better in every way. Reivers are good, but not great. In my experience an Intercessor Sarge will do the same thing better. Dedicate more to missile spam, and just send the one intercessor up to distract. The Tac sergeant with the Auspex and Comms is ok, but for the points, you can take an extra missile launcher. Not worth unless you can't take anymore. When comparing durability, a scout with camo cloak is basically the same when it comes to living, so ML/CC scouts are really good this kill team ruleset. I prefer to always keep three missile launchers, and a tac sarge with auspex together, with the Comms on someone else so if the sarge dies, both abilities don't die with him. That way, a vanilla bolter scout can be your leader for cheap, you have a three missile launcher death star, and an intercessor with power sword and Auto bolt rifle can attack, and distract. CC Marines are good, but for the points, it's better to have missile launchers.
What about this? This is the first time I will play Kill Team and habe really no idea. I know 40K but there are differences here.
Yeah. Put the two scouts as specialists, replace the reiver sergeant with an intercessor sergeant with power sword. The points aren't worth it for the grav chute. Haha also quick tip, Krak is better than Frag for almost every application for anything tougher than a guardsman. If you're going against anything with a T4 or 3+ use the krak.
About the ML, I think I can count with the fingers of one hand the times I used it on Frag. And I have always one in my tactical squads. Well, I will see if I like Kill Team on friday. One of the player will be a newbee to tabletop wargames.
Well, first kill team battle. Against Mechanic and very clear victory for me. He did a couple of mistakes. My two reivers killed 5 of his rangers (he wanted an only shooting team). Next week I will face Dark Eldars, a mix of Witches and Kabalist.
2 reivers, 2 scout with ML, an intercessor and a scout leader where my team against Mech. Should I change anything against DE?
Nightlord1987 wrote: Since I probably won't be getting a second Scout Missile Launcher in the next few days, what are opinions on a Marine Gunner with ML or HB?
On Friday i am facing my first Kill Team matches against Adeptus Mechanic, Tyranids and Dark Eldar. I will play my SM and really have no idea if my list will Works well. We only can bring one list and will fight one versus one and maybe a final round all vs all or by teams.
Leader: Intercessor sgt ( Bolt Rifle, Leader, Power Sword) 18p
Why is your CC dude your leader? He doesn't get bonus attacks, and he will probably die, considering the Tau have S6AP-4DD3 Rapid FIre weapons. Second thing, why so many Intercessor gunners? The extra wound may seem good, but with the tactics space marines have like death denied you don't need it. Take missile launchers, they're better in every way. Reivers are good, but not great. In my experience an Intercessor Sarge will do the same thing better. Dedicate more to missile spam, and just send the one intercessor up to distract. The Tac sergeant with the Auspex and Comms is ok, but for the points, you can take an extra missile launcher. Not worth unless you can't take anymore. When comparing durability, a scout with camo cloak is basically the same when it comes to living, so ML/CC scouts are really good this kill team ruleset. I prefer to always keep three missile launchers, and a tac sarge with auspex together, with the Comms on someone else so if the sarge dies, both abilities don't die with him. That way, a vanilla bolter scout can be your leader for cheap, you have a three missile launcher death star, and an intercessor with power sword and Auto bolt rifle can attack, and distract. CC Marines are good, but for the points, it's better to have missile launchers.
He's probably taking the Intercessor gunners because the grenade launcher is a 2+ to wound on most things, Doesn’t have move and shoot penalties like your ML’s, and doesn’t suffer Long Range penalties like your ML’s, and sits on a 2 wound chassis with a better save than a scout with ML for less points.
How are you taking 3 Missle Launchers? That’s not a legal list.
On Friday i am facing my first Kill Team matches against Adeptus Mechanic, Tyranids and Dark Eldar. I will play my SM and really have no idea if my list will Works well. We only can bring one list and will fight one versus one and maybe a final round all vs all or by teams.
Leader: Intercessor sgt ( Bolt Rifle, Leader, Power Sword) 18p
Why is your CC dude your leader? He doesn't get bonus attacks, and he will probably die, considering the Tau have S6AP-4DD3 Rapid FIre weapons. Second thing, why so many Intercessor gunners? The extra wound may seem good, but with the tactics space marines have like death denied you don't need it. Take missile launchers, they're better in every way. Reivers are good, but not great. In my experience an Intercessor Sarge will do the same thing better. Dedicate more to missile spam, and just send the one intercessor up to distract. The Tac sergeant with the Auspex and Comms is ok, but for the points, you can take an extra missile launcher. Not worth unless you can't take anymore. When comparing durability, a scout with camo cloak is basically the same when it comes to living, so ML/CC scouts are really good this kill team ruleset. I prefer to always keep three missile launchers, and a tac sarge with auspex together, with the Comms on someone else so if the sarge dies, both abilities don't die with him. That way, a vanilla bolter scout can be your leader for cheap, you have a three missile launcher death star, and an intercessor with power sword and Auto bolt rifle can attack, and distract. CC Marines are good, but for the points, it's better to have missile launchers.
He's probably taking the Intercessor gunners because the grenade launcher is a 2+ to wound on most things, Doesn’t have move and shoot penalties like your ML’s, and doesn’t suffer Long Range penalties like your ML’s, and sits on a 2 wound chassis with a better save than a scout with ML for less points.
How are you taking 3 Missle Launchers? That’s not a legal list.
2 scout gunners, and a tactical. Perfectly legal. I sit back and shoot, and 24" is pretty damn good for hitting on 3's, so idk everyone has their own playstyle but mine's been pretty effective so far.
I played with two scouts with ML and camo cloak. One died second turn because of the Mech arquebus. The other one killed one skitari and wounded two more.
My two Raivers killed 4 units. They allways attacked from behind a wall.
Thanks to the stratagem death denied my leader survived. The damm arquebus killed him first turn because I didn't know his rules.
Weazel wrote: About Grapnel launchers: What's the difference between climbing an obstacle (= using movement for vertical distance) and ignoring vertical distances when moving? I charged over a ruined building (although it wasn't just a wall, it had a level) and didn't feel like I was cheating. If they don't work like that I seriously don't see the point in them.
Grapnel Launchers only work on normal moves. No advance/charge/fall back/retreat/whaterver. Lets you climb really well unless you want to also charge.
Not sure if I should make a separate topic or post here, but asking about what models I should build to cover my bases for KT, so perhaps that fits the topic?
Background: Very limited selection of models prior to now (bunch of Tac marines, Cataphractii squad, Contemptor) for casual games with my more-serious-about-40k brother. Moved to a new city where GW seems to be the only game in town. As such I'm looking to get into Kill Team to accommodate my limited selection of models for now and I want to make sure I cover my bases with respect to WYSIWYG, especially given my relative inexperience.
I already picked up Fangs and what I'm seeing around is it's good to build one Reiver sarge with knife (since it doesn't replace carbine), then two of them with knives and grapnels and two with bolt carbines to cover Reiver bases. Good/nah?
Would getting Dark Imperium cover my bases with respect to Intercessors in weapon options as well as having the two special models for eventual commanders? (I'm also not adverse to mucking around with DG as a result, and I guess if I move up to 40k proper the Hellblasters will be nice?). If so, how should I look at building those Intercessors?
Pyrflamme wrote: Not sure if I should make a separate topic or post here, but asking about what models I should build to cover my bases for KT, so perhaps that fits the topic?
Background: Very limited selection of models prior to now (bunch of Tac marines, Cataphractii squad, Contemptor) for casual games with my more-serious-about-40k brother. Moved to a new city where GW seems to be the only game in town. As such I'm looking to get into Kill Team to accommodate my limited selection of models for now and I want to make sure I cover my bases with respect to WYSIWYG, especially given my relative inexperience.
I already picked up Fangs and what I'm seeing around is it's good to build one Reiver sarge with knife (since it doesn't replace carbine), then two of them with knives and grapnels and two with bolt carbines to cover Reiver bases. Good/nah?
Would getting Dark Imperium cover my bases with respect to Intercessors in weapon options as well as having the two special models for eventual commanders? (I'm also not adverse to mucking around with DG as a result, and I guess if I move up to 40k proper the Hellblasters will be nice?). If so, how should I look at building those Intercessors?
I mean the new eldar and primaris set is pretty good, and so is tooth and claw. Depends on if you want full kits or starter push fits.
I was thinking of building a Kill Team out of the first few issues of Conquest.
3 Intercessor and 3 Reivers, what do we think that’d be like?
I’ve got a Power Sword I could give the Sergeant perhaps, and can give them a bit of grapple power, but no Auxillary launcher or anything.
Worth bothering? It’s an excuse to paint up a little band in a new chapter scheme but if they are useless then there is no noise
I mean the new eldar and primaris set is pretty good, and so is tooth and claw. Depends on if you want full kits or starter push fits.
I guess my initial question is what options I want out of Reivers and Intercessors for KT, then if Fangs/one of the starters can satisfy that or if I should be looking to get non-starter boxes to cover my bases.
I mean the new eldar and primaris set is pretty good, and so is tooth and claw. Depends on if you want full kits or starter push fits.
I guess my initial question is what options I want out of Reivers and Intercessors for KT, then if Fangs/one of the starters can satisfy that or if I should be looking to get non-starter boxes to cover my bases.
Currently I think meta is scouts and intercessors so get say Know no fear and then grab a devestator squad and a box of scouts. That will give you everything you need. You have weapons options for scouts, heavy weapon marines, and intercessors.
I've always had a problem with our leader specialist, which one is the least bad option. Now that the comms specialist took a hit along with the auxiliary grenade launcher. I'm leaning towards giving my comms specialist the auspex aswell. It free's up my leader specialist..
Intercerssor sergeant is our best close combat specialist, so that's out of the question. Tactical sergeant, well it has only one wound and you don't really need to give him the auspex so I want to try him as a sniper specialist with combi-plasma and buff him with the comms&auspex intercessor. Most cases I can 3+ to hit both weapon profiles (overcharged) and reroll ones. Sounds a bit of a niche, but I still will try it
This leaves me choosing between reiver and scout sergeants.. Leader specialist level 1 stratagem is way more valuable with the reiver sergeant, but "giving" easy kill to your enemy is a big downer. Scout sergeant with the sniper rifle is quite meh (those MW's never come!), more of an 1 wound model with a bad save even with the cloak. Probably more wise to give the scout sergeant a chainsword instead and make him a cheap 3 attack objective grabber if taken.
So now I'm staring at a reiver sergeant with has always been meh combat wise, when all those attacks just get saved by enemy armour. Maybe I play too much against MEQ, but still.
I think all this inner-debate makes my point clear, I have no idea what is a decent leader for us. Has your thoughts changed after the FAQ and what are you planning on using and why?
I'll try this against a DG army in the upcoming week.
So the new FAQ/Errata came out and I’ve been doing well with what we had before, but I think it seems overall better now.
Things I’ve noticed and thoughts:
Grenade Launcher long range penalty (saw that coming)
Tac Sergeant can take a Boltgun with the Auspex (nice, not great, but better than only having pistols with the Auspex)
Comms Specialist change (now more support oriented)
Tactical Marine & Intercessor Medic (not sure on usefulness)
Intercessor Gunner or Sergeant Auspex (I’m gonna try using two Auspexes)
Firing Grenade weapons in overwatch and in shooting phase (yes please!)
Consolidate with 1” of enemy (already knew that but nice for clarification for my buddies)
Can’t autowin missions by taking out enemy team (interesting...)
Heavy Specialist with Rapid Fire weapon & More Bullets tactic at half range can fire three shots! (looking at you Plasma gunner...)
Heavy using More Bullets on random shot weapons does work before the number of shots is rolled. (missile launcher or flamer Tac Gunner!)
Auspex negates abilities like Camo Cloaks, Lictor Chameleonic Skin, and like Tyranid Lurk (kind of figured but nice for clarification)
With these changes I’m gonna try like a buddy system for my specialists. Tac Sergeant with Auspex & Boltgun plus HB or Plasma Tac Gunner, Primaris Grenade Launcher Gunner with Auspex next to Stalker Primaris, etc etc. I think the Comms & 2 Auspex scanners it will be pretty effective for something like that. Lots of ways to provide some buffs to our marines to dug in enemies/prevent overheat/etc. A Plasma Heavy shooting 3 times at half range would be useful but then blasted off the board in turn.
Overall, I can see a firebase type SM team doing well for my playstyle. Since I’m jumping in a campaign with my team I’ll add in the Combat Primaris Sergeant, Leader Scout with Sniper Rifle & Cloak, & Demo Flamer Tac on the side. Not convinced too much on scouts yet but could change after I build what I have.
nekron99x wrote: How about this team? New to the forum and to Kill Team actually. It got me back into 40k and not have to add a second mortgage to buy minis. : )
Kill Team List (Adeptus Astartes) [98pts]
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This is pretty good. For the extra points, have you considered dropping the tac marine gunner and getting an intercessor gunner with the grenade launcher? It's really good, and a tough target to take down.
I am considering joining a league at my FLGS with my marines. I have very limited kill team experience so my list is more theory craft than it is taken from experience.
The idea behind to double boost the missiles with auspex at the start and use explosives to take out or injure gribbles and the missiles to take out hard targets. With the missiles hitting on 3s (ignoring cover if auspexed and always being half range) I think I can reliably dish out damage all the while being durable. I see most of my CPs being used on the ignore death strat because that is just soo good.
Issues I could run into would be very cover heavy terrain but if that's the case I would likely lose anyways to the armies that could use that by virtue of me playing marines.
Since we have the new faq and we are discussing tactics, i have an issue that needs clarification.
As it stands, i read the tac sgt entry that he can not take an auspex if he gets a combi weapon or other weapons like a power fist. He can only get an auspex if he has a boltgun and any pistol weapon.
Thoughts?
Playing against T'au, and we rolled the ambush mission.
Really enjoyable mission - snipers did some work, boltgun scout took one OOA and my sergeant and another scout held up a couple of drones in melee to keep them on the board.
I ended up taking out 3 drones and a suit of some kind, he got the rest of his team off the board. I won the game.
I'm hamstringing myself by playing scouts only I know, but it feels more fun than bringing in proper power armoured troops. I might try a couple of shotguns and maybe some with combat knives for the extra hit in combat.
Hi all, in your opinion, is an all-Primaris team viable? I’m thinking a mix of Intercessors and Reivers. I think I understand that Missile Launchers are quite good (and I do have some regular marines and scouts, though no Missile Launchers at the moment), but I like the visual cohesion of all members being roughly the same size, and it's a good excuse to get my hands on some Primaris models.
Insane Ivan wrote: Hi all, in your opinion, is an all-Primaris team viable? I’m thinking a mix of Intercessors and Reivers. I think I understand that Missile Launchers are quite good (and I do have some regular marines and scouts, though no Missile Launchers at the moment), but I like the visual cohesion of all members being roughly the same size, and it's a good excuse to get my hands on some Primaris models.
Primaris gunners with grenade launchers, a lieutenant with power sword and auto bolt rifle, and a leader that's a reaver lieutenant, then as many intercessors as humanly possible I think.
I can't understate the defensive potential of Primaris.
Having 2 wounds and a 3+ armor save gives you a ton of options. Against psychic armies, you can stick a primaris out front to absorb the Psybolt. Ok, you took a wound off me, I still have one more before I start taking injury checks.
You force enemies to overcharge their plasma to insure the kill. Against armies like Grey Knights, a player can opt to not overcharge to protect their own models. If you want to kill that Primaris, though, you need to overcharge.
Weapons that do d3 damage have a 33% chance to only shave off a single wound, giving you more chances to survive with a Primaris model.
Most games I take at least 3 Primaris models. Usually an Intercessor Sgt with a Power Sword, a Reiver Sgt with a Combat Blade, and an Intercessor with an Aux. Grenade Launcher. Then I bring Tacticals with special weapons, usually a Heavy Bolter (Hellfire Shells is just so good) a Plasma Gun (sniper specialist) and a Tac Sergeant with an Auspex.
Thanks guys! I hoped they were sound, even if Primaris-only isn’t too competititve.
Modelling question: is the Intercessor arm computer an acceptable “auspex”? I’d like to get one on the team but I’m not sure I want to get the easy to build models or the Ultramarine upgrade sprue just for that one arm, and I quite like the “let me check my smart watch” look.
Sorry for the dumb questions, still getting acquainted with KT. Is the new KT commander character a good option, and if so is it ok to paint up up as my chapter variant (BA successor chapter)? Or will people get hot and bothered if he's not a SW and I use the specific rules for him?
Pyrflamme wrote: Sorry for the dumb questions, still getting acquainted with KT. Is the new KT commander character a good option, and if so is it ok to paint up up as my chapter variant (BA successor chapter)? Or will people get hot and bothered if he's not a SW and I use the specific rules for him?
I dont think it matters. The model itself doesent have any distinguishing SW markings. Its the generic Primaris Librarian but in a blue plastic, and since Killteam doesent have any specific Chapter keywords right now, its Chapter (or color scheme) doesent have any real effect.
Is there any info on the unique rules, and skills? Im kinda interested in grabbing one too, and i would definitely NOT be doing it in Space wolves colors either. I kinda like the name though.The only other decent Commander for Loyalists looks like the Lieutenant.
He has a special skill tree. At level 1 he gets a bonus on his Psychic tests, at level 2 he gets to hit re-rolls in the Fight phase (with an extra bonus against Orks), at level 3 models become shaken if they take a wound from his Psybolt, at level 4 your kill team gets extra morale points if he killed enemy specialists.
I'm looking to start a Space Marine Kill Team; gonna be doing Astral Knights. I've got the Start Collecting box for the Intercessors and Reavers. I wouldn't mind getting one or two Scouts and/or regular Space Marines.
Arcanis161 wrote: I'm looking to start a Space Marine Kill Team; gonna be doing Astral Knights. I've got the Start Collecting box for the Intercessors and Reavers. I wouldn't mind getting one or two Scouts and/or regular Space Marines.
What would you suggest I get next?
Heavy Weapons on either Scouts or Tacticals.
Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters are both pretty useful.
My Sniper Scouts have never performed well, but look awesome and iconic for a Killteam.
Arcanis161 wrote: I'm looking to start a Space Marine Kill Team; gonna be doing Astral Knights. I've got the Start Collecting box for the Intercessors and Reavers. I wouldn't mind getting one or two Scouts and/or regular Space Marines.
What would you suggest I get next?
Heavy Weapons on either Scouts or Tacticals.
Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters are both pretty useful.
My Sniper Scouts have never performed well, but look awesome and iconic for a Killteam.
I second Nightlords suggestions and agree regarding sniper scouts. Aside from a Sniper Scout Sarge as a hiding leader, you might get a little bit more mileage from BP/CCW or Bolter scouts. My ML Scout Gunner is pretty awesome though as a Heavy or Demo specialist.
I will add that the Tac weapons I avoid are meltaguns, grav-guns, and combi-weapons on a sarge. My Tac sarge is on auspex duty so only a bolter is permissible. For Intercessors I find the Stalker does ok against AM/GSC for sniping out leaders/specialists if ya have the CP to spare for the tactic. Otherwise, avoid that weapon for the handy bolt rifles.
On a side note, had my first league game last week against Nids and won by a single VP. Pretty close game with the Terror Tactics mission as we both kept each other from getting off the board edges. Have to admit I’m really liking my marines and look forward to adding in a commander of some sort. Thinking along the lines of a Captain, Librarian, or Chaplain.
Won my game in the local shop's campaign against T'au - Played the Feint mission, which I won by the skin of my teeth. My opponent reduced me to 2 models by turn 4, but made a mistake right at the end which meant he couldn't blow up a 5th objective. I won on victory points 6-5.
Played against my friends DG in the Ambush mission - man they are tough to move when you don't have many weapons above S4. The Hellfire shells tactic is well worth the 2CP if you have a good tough target you need to take out (I used it when targeting his Blight Launcher). Unfortunately for my opponent, his slowness and a good round of shooting where I took out most of his poxwalkers meant I was able to take half his numbers OOA.
I'm really enjoying playing with this Kill Team. Even though it has obvious weak points, it's a fun way to play, and makes you think about beating the mission rather than the opposing team. I think I might add a couple of guys with some shotguns and combat knives to give me a little more flexibility.
I’ve played about 10 games of kill team now with my Astartes. Having a ton of fun. Still making tweaks but I’ve been having success with a Int Sergeant Leader with power sword, heavy tac gunner with missile, sniper plasma tac gunner, intercessor with auspex, intercessor, and tac sergeant with combi plas.
I do wish tactical sergeant with power fist could have the combat trait but oh well. Most of the time Auspex has been a star member of the team.
Yo! I'm looking at making a kill team out of my black templars - while I've got pretty much any tactical marine a good crusader could ever dream of, my other options are kinda limited - all of my scouts are built as neophytes for my crusader squads.
That means I've got 1 shotgun, then a mix of combat knives, boltguns and a sarge with a chainsword. I've got 10 of 'em total in my collection.
(no primaris at all tho)
As it stands, I'm looking at a heavy bolter marine with the heavy specialism, a flamer marine, and a scout marine with a shotgun. As for everything else, I'm not totally sure what I should be doing, and feel a bit like I'm in for a pasting, as with my collection, it seems like I can only field one special, one heavy and whatever I put on my sarge, along with my shotgun scout, with everyone else just being kind of chumps.
posermcbogus wrote: Yo! I'm looking at making a kill team out of my black templars - while I've got pretty much any tactical marine a good crusader could ever dream of, my other options are kinda limited - all of my scouts are built as neophytes for my crusader squads.
That means I've got 1 shotgun, then a mix of combat knives, boltguns and a sarge with a chainsword. I've got 10 of 'em total in my collection.
(no primaris at all tho)
As it stands, I'm looking at a heavy bolter marine with the heavy specialism, a flamer marine, and a scout marine with a shotgun. As for everything else, I'm not totally sure what I should be doing, and feel a bit like I'm in for a pasting, as with my collection, it seems like I can only field one special, one heavy and whatever I put on my sarge, along with my shotgun scout, with everyone else just being kind of chumps.
Depending on how fluffy you want to stay and how you think Black Templar handle Primaris really does color your kill team a bit. Becuase I don't really know, I will proceed like you are okay with everything Space Marines can bring in Kill Team. Do understand I don't play Kill Team on the bleeding edge of the best units and non-specialist, loyal Space Marines aren't a faction I primarily play.
Weapons:
Missile Launchers, I really like them in Kill Team on MEQ stats. They cover both groups of mooks and elites pretty well between frag and krak missiles. And you can have two of them (scout and old marine). Heavy Bolter, I am pretty much forced to take one as a CSM Kill Team player, but I don't think that is too bad. It is a decent weapon in Kill Team. My friend's scout kill team has one, but I don't know how well it works as the HB scout gets wasted before firing a single shot in the couple of games I have seen him used. I am pretty sure Space Marines have an awesome Tactic for the Heavy Bolter too. I am two minds about the meltagun. I haven't taken it with my CSM as there isn't anything so powerful that I feel a super-charged plasmagun shot also works with more range. At the same time, a meltagun shot within 6" is very likely to eliminate anything not a Necron. I don't think I like the shotgun in Kill Team. It should work, but I don't think it really does. You are basically in charge range to get the most out of it which is a tricky spot to get to and you probably are only getting a single shot. I don't have any experience with grav weapons, but on paper they didn't impress. Pistol and Chainsword, I outfit most of my non-specialist marines this way mostly due to a lack of options and desire to use a primarily marine based team. They don't really stand up against true melee focused units of other factions, but they can hold them up for a bit and sometimes win fights with some luck and charging first.
Units:
Intercessors seem pretty good with the bolt rifle, and without looking in the rule book, I believe they can take an Auspex which is really good in Kill Team. Reivers, I am told they are pretty lackluster unless you are playing on a board that looks like Gotham City (has lots of tall buildings). Old marines aka minimarines, I think one with a missile launcher is good because he has a missile launcher. A plasmagun marine seems like a good idea as does a flamer marine. I wouldn't bother with bolter minimarines. I like having scouts as the core of the kill team since you are saving a couple points here and there to maybe fit one more unit in the team. I don't know if that is common for space marine Kill Team players.
Like I said, I don't directly play Space Marines. I can only infer based on their spiky equivalent and the occasional game with my buddy's scout team.
My templars are pretty fluffy if I'm honest - lots of bolt pistol + chainsword dudes, as many c+c weapons as I can squeeze in - I've built my collection with 40K proper in mind, so I'm not specifically building anything for kill team, more seconding them away from the crusade for this mission.
I've also got absolutely no primaris AT ALL, which I think kind of hobbles me in kill team, as the marine rules seem to have been written with a mix of classic marines and nu marines for a team in mind.
...tempted to see if I can't finish enough of my chaos dudes up in a week and use them instead lol
Aggressors, Inceptors and Hellblasters are currently not available, but that might change with the forthcoming Elites expansion.
Scouts with missile launchers and Intercessors with AGLs are good for hitting power. I converted an ML scout and sniper scout out of Reivers, but the new sniper rievers might make it into Elites anyway.
I use a couple of reivers for light cc duty and a Combat LT with a power sword for harder targets. Another 3 Intercessors round my team out with sniper and comms in there.
For now all the possible Elite book stuff shall stay on Sprue.
I’ll concentrate on three reivers and three intercessors to start, and go from there perhaps.
The LT you run is for Commanders? Or do you mean as a Leader in main KT?
Sorry, I use the power sword lieutenant model, but it's actually a intercessor sergeant in game. I use a reiver Sgt as my leader. I don't have commanders.
