I really do not know what to make of this, and the recent Pentagon announcement of the US tracking roughly 600 UAP's.
Seems a bit more creditable information is coming out with each passing week.
I strongly doubt that these are extraterrestrials, as the vastness of space is just too large to feasible make contact with anything out there... yet, there seem to be unknown things in our air.
Yeah, I don't really know what to think either. Feels credible enough to give me a nagging little voice in the back of my head saying 'oh gak' at the very least...
I really do not know what to make of this, and the recent Pentagon announcement of the US tracking roughly 600 UAP's.
Seems a bit more creditable with each passing week.
I strongly doubt that these are extraterrestrials, as the vastness of space is just too large to feasible make contact with anything out there... yet, there seem to be unknown things in our air.
Crazy times.
'Former intelligence official spouts nonsense' is basically its own genre of comedy, i don't think there's any more to this than there was to the literally dozens of times similar things around UFOs and such had been claimed. As long as nobody shows tangible proof it's just another old man going off the deep end.
I really do not know what to make of this, and the recent Pentagon announcement of the US tracking roughly 600 UAP's.
Seems a bit more creditable with each passing week.
I strongly doubt that these are extraterrestrials, as the vastness of space is just too large to feasible make contact with anything out there... yet, there seem to be unknown things in our air.
Crazy times.
'Former intelligence official spouts nonsense' is basically its own genre of comedy, i don't think there's any more to this than there was to the literally dozens of times similar things around UFOs and such had been claimed. As long as nobody shows tangible proof it's just another old man going off the deep end.
That was my initial response, but seeing that this is in the Guardian news, along side with what the pentagon have recently admitted, and then there was the NASA panel about UAP's only a few days ago.
This all seems a bit too coincidental.
I laughed at the UFO/Greys craze in the 90's, and think it is all a load of hogwash... but, this feels a little bit different, as it is coning from government officials, and not some mad lad who thinks he can telepathic talk to fish.
Eh we've heard similar for decades and it never comes to anything. The closest you get is that UFOs - Unidentified Flying Objects - do exist, but that's all they are. Not identified.
There's a myriad of things they can be from technical glitches all the way to natural anomalies; animals/creatures being miss interpreted and likely more than a few "top secret test of some aircraft"
Perhaps also very likely to be a few which are from foreign powers and so aren't on any in-country list or such.
Heck I suspect we will see a whole lot more now that drones are a thing and have been for a while.
Personally until there's actual proof I remain of the belief that its not Aliens. In 30years we've never had proof, just wild claims, stories and all born of that age of bending spoons with the power of your mind and letter boards talking to the dead. All things that snuck their way into TV and into the minds of people en-mass; but which have been proven time and again to be nothing more than hoaxes and fakery. Heck many of them circus tricks and magicians tricks; some of which have been around for generations or adaptions thereof.
We also had this same thing during the pandemic 1st year and, nothing came of it beyond a few news articles.
Overread wrote: Eh we've heard similar for decades and it never comes to anything. The closest you get is that UFOs - Unidentified Flying Objects - do exist, but that's all they are. Not identified.
There's a myriad of things they can be from technical glitches all the way to natural anomalies; animals/creatures being miss interpreted and likely more than a few "top secret test of some aircraft"
Perhaps also very likely to be a few which are from foreign powers and so aren't on any in-country list or such.
Heck I suspect we will see a whole lot more now that drones are a thing and have been for a while.
Personally until there's actual proof I remain of the belief that its not Aliens. In 30years we've never had proof, just wild claims, stories and all born of that age of bending spoons with the power of your mind and letter boards talking to the dead. All things that snuck their way into TV and into the minds of people en-mass; but which have been proven time and again to be nothing more than hoaxes and fakery. Heck many of them circus tricks and magicians tricks; some of which have been around for generations or adaptions thereof.
We also had this same thing during the pandemic 1st year and, nothing came of it beyond a few news articles.
The big smoking gun, or rather lack thereof, for me, is that we have released a couple of billion good-quality cameras into the wild in the last two decades, in the form of smartphones and surveillance cameras, but also on private or commercial drones, webcams and so on. Even in regions with less infrastructure, people are seldom without their phones, and a lot of automatic cameras are recording all the time. And while they pick up all sorts of weird stuff, like rare, or even thought extinct, animals, weather phenomena, one-in-a-million events like meteor strikes or other astrophysical stuff, from time to time, a proof of unquestionably alien crafts remains curiously absent. This alleged whistleblower, again, is only saying that such proof exists, but is not actually providing any. And his supporters do the same: they say he's a upstanding dude, has good character, that they saw or heard about that proof as well, that they know it exists and so on, but ultimately it's all hearsay and reputation circlejerking. If they really had proof, they could show some.
IMHO, such stories are either launched to cover up actual problems, scandals and scoops that intelligence agencies do not want the public to know about, or are picked up as 'filler' whenever there is a 'slow news week'.
As others have said “it was definitely flying, definitely an object, and we can’t tell what it is/was” does not therefore mean “zomg aeilns!”.
To make that leap is just a sci-fi God of the Gaps type fallacy, where the observer is simply inserting their preferred answer to a gap in knowledge, claiming it’s just that binary. That sort of intellectual dishonesty leads to guff like Ancient Aliens and indeed Ancient Apocalypse, where anything not currently well understood, or deliberately misrepresented becomes proof of whatever nonsense the snake oil salesmen is peddling.
As for UFO abductions or alien encounters? We can have corroborated absences, where a person went missing. And they may have the tale of butt stuff done by little grey men etc. But much like above, one part of a tale being verifiable doesn’t make the whole of the thing true. For instance, just because I can evidence my name, address and date of birth, wouldn’t make my claim of having a 2’ Wanger and being the inventor of a secret Time Machine powered by a Ferret called Colin true, would it? Of course not. The Ferret is called Kevin.
But getting a bit more Willing Disbeliever, or Fortean? I once read a fascinating article pointing out the similarities between alien and fairy abduction stores. Now, either it’s the same method of attention seeking/not wanting the wife to know you went on a bender, or something is happening, perhaps some form of psychotic break, perhaps a genuine alien or fairy abduction, or any number of things. I’ll see if I can find an online copy for anyone interested in reading it. Not presenting it as evidence or owt (I’m singularly ill equipped to test its claims), but simply because it’s an interesting read.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeah. I need to answer the question….
Are we alone? I think it’s a supreme vanity, given the age of the universe and what we know about life on our own planet, and it’s many iterations, to say no to this.
Is there intelligent life? Again I’d have to say almost certainly. Possibly more advanced than us, possibly not,
Are they coming over here, probing out cows and abducting our local odd’uns? Almost. Certainly. Not.
Though I must admit to being tickled by the idea that the UFOs aren’t exactly the cream of the alien crop, but the equivalent of teenagers in clapped out cars who get a kick out of bothering wildlife.
Drink, Drugs and chemical imbalances in the brain can do insane things to a persons mental state. Heck even if you're perfectly normal you can easily have a waking dream and such which can feel very real.
There's a lot of ways that a person can interpret memories that they've got of a period of time and to interpret them incorrectly; all because of an altered mental state which impeded their ability to function at the time and/or recall that period of time correctly.
Brains can make stuff up to fill in gaps. Heck there's a whole slew of visual tricks that work purely on the fact that our brains interpret information, they don't just process it.
For example, the image below is black and white with the image broken up with a coloured grid and it tricks our brain into seeing the image as a whole (or at least tricks most peoples brains) as coloured.
With a mind that's interpreting information based on what it understands its very readily possible to have experiences that the brain makes stuff up for to fill in the blanks and gaps or such.
I'd also say, and this is sadly a more sinister and sad aspect, I suspect there's more than few "alien abductions" which are actual abductions. Or other extreme situations where one person is abused by another(or others).
Much like how some people develop a "split personality" to shield their mental state; I would not be surprised if some peoples minds lean on alien abduction to try and come to terms with real traumatic experiences.
Also reminds me of the week that my daughter spent regularly freaking out asa 2 year old because she kept seeing chickens that wouldn’t leave her alone! The brain is a weird and wonderful thing!
I’m also a great believer in the theory that governments would be unable to keep such a secret because they just aren’t that competent.
I really do not know what to make of this, and the recent Pentagon announcement of the US tracking roughly 600 UAP's.
Seems a bit more creditable information is coming out with each passing week.
I strongly doubt that these are extraterrestrials, as the vastness of space is just too large to feasible make contact with anything out there... yet, there seem to be unknown things in our air.
Crazy times.
I don't strongly doubt anything when it comes to what we don't know. I also tend not to put anything past time for which there's been quite a bit of past, before we opened our eyes and took a breath.
Flinty wrote:Following on from Tsagualsa
Also reminds me of the week that my daughter spent regularly freaking out asa 2 year old because she kept seeing chickens that wouldn’t leave her alone! The brain is a weird and wonderful thing!
I’m also a great believer in the theory that governments would be unable to keep such a secret because they just aren’t that competent.
I'm proof that graph is incorrect, and further for having sightings of unexplainable anomolies in the skies. I feel like at this point each one of you should have seen something you can't explain or know someone close to you that has.
The graph isn't showing that we no longer see things we cannot explain. It's showing that things like aliens, saucers, lake monsters and bigfoot haven't been photographed with increasing regularity despite having a vast increase in camera access.
If bigfoot were real you'd expect to have seen a massive uptick in photos. Same for many others; even if you argue "aliens are hiding better because of it" things like lake monsters wouldn't.
So yes we still see things we don't understand at the time; we still have UFOs. However many of those earlier ideas are simply not standing up to the increase in potential evidence.
Cameras are no longer a rare item that only professionals use and amateurs might only have a hobby pinhole camera. They aren't slow to take photos on or only work in the dark - heck in the last 10 or so years the sensor technology has advanced to an insane degree. A lot of cameras can take photos, without flash, in very dark conditions.
Yes cameras are slow. Particularly for the type of sightings that come and go quick. There's no grabbing your camera, making sure you're focused on the target, and by then it's over.
Other things not so much, and as far as instruments. I believe it was stated during the hearing back in 2022? That we' received pretty much 5 minutes of footage relating to only 2 or 3 sightings.
There's hours of footage and hundreds more incidents we've not seen. Presently I hear there's 800 new cases.
Now I never thought I would see anything out of the orindary, but when you do it makes an impression, at least for me. I have an opinion about it, but I also don't need to impose it on any of you.
Adeptekon wrote: Yes cameras are slow. Particularly for the type of sightings that come and go quick. There's no grabbing your camera, making sure you're focused on the target, and by then it's over.
Other things not so much, and as far as instruments. I believe it was stated during the hearing back in 2022? That we' received pretty much 5 minutes of footage relating to only 2 or 3 sightings.
There's hours of footage and hundreds more incidents we've not seen. Presently I hear there's 800 new cases.
Now I never thought I would see anything out of the orindary, but when you do it makes an impression, at least for me. I have an opinion about it, but I also don't need to impose it on any of you.
We have automatic camera's on work all the time. No need to grab camera when one is recording all the time.
And if there were aliens they wouldn'' be hidden. They would be here for fuel to continue their thousands of year travel or colonize this planet at which point they could do that. Either just settling or if want to get rid of us press button and kill us all.
They wouldn't skulk around as they would have no need.
Mobile phone cameras are calibrated to take pictures of your family at a birthday party, not a distant object floating in the sky or a creature on the far side of a mountain pass. Telephoto lenses remain a rare and limited feature, and rarely go anything more powerful than 2x.
That aside, the overwhelming majority of people still can't reliably hold their phone in landscape to record video, expecting them to take good quality evedntiary images or video is unrealistic.
There's also vastly more material out there these days than there was prior to the advent of cameraphones. Back in the 80s and 90s, if you bought any book on the subject you'd nearly always find a selection from the same few dozen well known examples, because the sample of images that weren't discredited or explained was tiny.
These days there's YouTube channels and even broadcast TV shows full of new stuff. Of course, the majority is explicable or manufactured, but that's never really been any different.
As to the topic? I'm confident we're not the only planet with life on it. I'm reasonably convinced that life is intelligent, I'm open-minded to the possibility that they can travel either interstellar or interdimensional. There's enough bonkers science out there that's a matter of undisputed fact that I find the idea that a civilization that may predate ours by epochs might have cracked that particular problem at least plausible.
Well NASA have annouced that there are military pilots and recording devices submitting images and testimony of things that NASA can not currently explain when they have been analysied.
Beyond that....it would be cool if it was.....
Its quite amusing that there is a lot of talk about getting the alien tech but is it all that good if they keep crashing....
The Debrief also has a 3 part q&a about the fact check. Draw your own conclusions.
Some of you may recall that when we last discussed UAPs on dakka here some years back I was firmly in the "this is all explainable by human technology and people misunderstanding what they are witnessing" camp. When I first saw this report I dismissed it out of hand, but the more I think about it the more I believe there's more to this story.
Edit: Having done some independent "research" (ie fallen down the ufo conspiracy theory rabbit hole), I came across what's known as the "Wilson/Davis memo". It's a document that leaked in 2019, allegedly written by Dr. Eric Davis (senior intelligence official) in 2002 about an alleged meeting he had with Admiral Thomas Wilson (former Director of the DIA) tegsrding events that occurred in 1997. The document came to light when it was found in the personal files of Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell after his passing. In it, Adm. Wilson, who was then serving in a role which gave him oversight over all US black budget programs, discovered a hidden program being undertaken by an unnamed defense contractor (implied to be Lockheed Martin/Skunk Works) to study and reverse engineer recovered non-human technology. He was blocked access to it because of convoluted bureaucratic maneuvering. The memo basically corroborated what Grusch is now claiming. You can read that memo here:
Wilson denies ever having met with Davis, whereas Miller has only made carefully worded non-denials regarding the document and the details therein. Mitchell, Interestingly, went on Larry King in 2008 and talked about how he had met with an admiral who basically told him the same thing contained in the memo - Wilson denies that too, whether or not I actually happened or Mitchell was referring to the memo is a bit unclear.
I suppose it's possible this is a decades long practical joke or ufo research is being used as a cover story for something more down to earth (pun intended), but it's interesting to see what seems to be a 25 year long chain of events playing out with some consistency.
2nd Edit: The Wilson/Davis memo is not the only such example of corroborating evidence, there's also the matter of Jacques Vallee and General John Sheehan and Charles Bowsher who basically said the same exact thing, in a rush so I'll reference you the Cliff notes version nested towards the bottom of this daily mail article - iirc the mails a bit of a tabloid rag, yes? No matter, you can use this to hunt down better sources:
All of these events seem to be kind of connected and cross-referential (implication is that Bowsher is the individual mentioned in the Davis memo as having almost exposed the undercover program), despite not on the service being something that was coordinated by these individuals which implies some degree of veracity. That the underlying thesis essentially matches what Grusch is now saying gives all these stories extra layers of validity.
Like others have said the sums suggest there should be other life out there but as St Douglas observed "“Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.” meaning even with magic levels of FTL getting any meaningful distance is a massive PITA
Yeah even if the Universe is full of life it can still be insanely spread out to the point where contact is rare or very difficult. Or we could just be in a very quiet pocket of space and everywhere else is teaming with spaceships and teleporters and such.
I think one other thing that rears its head as abnormal is if we know there are aliens or if there have been found crashed ships and such - why have we seen zero tech advance from that? If the governments really did have alien tech and we assume that to cross the gulf of space the Aliens would be considerably more advanced than us; where is the tech that derives from that?
We've never seen a government release any machine or device that defies current scientific thinking; or which is so far ahead of everyone else that you can't even conceive how they got there. There's no massive leap happening.
Which is what you'd fully expect unless you have something like the MIB supressing everything.
Which when you pause and think of it is actually really sinister. Whilst they are in general up-beat films; when you pause and realise how much technology they have and how much it could advance things like food production, medical research and so-forth - you realise that the MIB are really rather nasty in keeping it all locked up and hidden.
Also if there really are aliens and the USA really does know about them - can we really believe that Trump wouldn't have tweeted everyone within about 5-10seconds of being shown the secret documents. Or are we also having shadow-governments and shadow-militaries and Pyramids with eyes on the top?
Once you start to consider the multiple layers of secrecy required and the interconnected relations you start to head down the rabbithole of a lot of other conspiracies to support one conspiracy.
Now that's even less likely. One way travel & colonize traveling is at least theoretically possible and something humans eventually need to do to survive assuming we haven't killed each other before that.
tneva82 wrote: Now that's even less likely. One way travel & colonize traveling is at least theoretically possible and something humans eventually need to do to survive assuming we haven't killed each other before that.
I’d imagine our first, and possibly last, step is to further colonise our solar system.
Right now, food and water are of course the biggest issues there, because we’ve but a single source World for such things.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On reverse engineering, I guess one counter argument would be any sufficiently advanced tech is just too advanced.
For instance, if we took my iPad, wot I’m typing on right now, back in time say, 600 years. We put in into the hands of Henry VI, or his court.
What could they practically do with it? It’s so far beyond their level of technology, none of the principles behind it would be familiar.
You could take your Ipad and deliver it to Apple, ca. 2003, and they could not replicate it even if they understood it perfectly. Understanding how something works is very different from having the processes needed for e.g. manufacturing chips with a given performance at a small enough scale, for example. You can conclude, from examining the future-Ipad, that it is physically possible and at some point economically viable to do it, but that does not grow you a hyper-advanced manufacturing plant that churns these things out.
That's something that Star Trek IV got right, or did at least show, with Scotty sauntering up to a manufacturing plant and showing them how to make the raw materials the crew needed for their heist
tneva82 wrote: Now that's even less likely. One way travel & colonize traveling is at least theoretically possible and something humans eventually need to do to survive assuming we haven't killed each other before that.
I’d imagine our first, and possibly last, step is to further colonise our solar system.
Right now, food and water are of course the biggest issues there, because we’ve but a single source World for such things.
That won't last us forever. Well technically nothing will but by leaving this star system and colonizing other systems final death of mankind can be postponed.
Of course timeline for this solar system not being livable anymore is silly long but any alien travelers that might come here are most likely on similar mission. Colonize new planet so their race won't die when their sun dies.
It also raises the question of whether any other species, at least comparable to our own, survived and developed sufficient technology to get off its own rock in the first place.
Biology may wildly vary, but Physics am Physics. No matter how clever you are, you can only jump so high. And technology then needs to pick up the slack.
But if aliens come here it's not native americans vs europeans. It's lone ant vs navy seal soldier and even that is too generous.
If they come here technological advanle is silly big. Just for starters they have in essence infinite power generatron at high output. They could boil and melt this planet just by sheer energy output.
Mankind best hope they are curious enough and that we aren't in way of their goal. As if they want to kill us we don't have tools to stop it.
Those humans are freaking nuts-violent! Seriously they think that we'd spend billions building spaceships and travelling the universe just to arrive and irradiate the world at the end with fire and destruction.
Though seriously I have had a thought as of late that perhaps other ecosystems on other worlds evolved differently to the Earth. Our ecosystem very much has a predatory element to it. One thing consumes another to survive; with an underlay of plants and other critters that generate their own energy from photosynthesis (and other processes) whilst only consuming mineral content.
So perhaps there are many worlds where live is more "plant" like. Where they aren't competing for resources by consumption and the Earth is a "red" listed world. A hotbed of violence and danger that's just best avoided because such species as arise from those worlds are known to have hyper-violent potential as a result of evolving to consume others.
The thing is, though, that predation makes a lot of sense, evolutionarily... it's always going to be more efficient to have another organism do the hard work of extracting nutrients and then eating them. It's faaaar more efficient, even accounting for the effort of catching and killing.
Even the bottom of the ocean, where organisms eat sulphides and the like, have predators.
It is kinda hard to make generalizations about evolution though, seeing as that we only have evolution on Earth as an example.
We can extrapolate by assuming the conditions on other worlds are similar to those on Earth, but if they aren't, then we are just completely in the dark.
I think one other thing that rears its head as abnormal is if we know there are aliens or if there have been found crashed ships and such - why have we seen zero tech advance from that? If the governments really did have alien tech and we assume that to cross the gulf of space the Aliens would be considerably more advanced than us; where is the tech that derives from that?
We've never seen a government release any machine or device that defies current scientific thinking; or which is so far ahead of everyone else that you can't even conceive how they got there. There's no massive leap happening.
Which is what you'd fully expect unless you have something like the MIB supressing everything.
Sure, assuming they've figured anything out & could replicate it.
Overread wrote: Also if there really are aliens and the USA really does know about them - can we really believe that Trump wouldn't have tweeted everyone within about 5-10seconds of being shown the secret documents. Or are we also having shadow-governments and shadow-militaries and Pyramids with eyes on the top?
Once you start to consider the multiple layers of secrecy required and the interconnected relations you start to head down the rabbithole of a lot of other conspiracies to support one conspiracy.
Do you really think whoever was holding that info would've shared it with Trump?
You don't need a shadow Govt, just a few people with common sense saying "Yeah, let's just not tell him...."
tneva82 wrote: Few people as in loads. It would not be known just for few people and we only need 1 trumpist, of which about 30% america is, to spill beans.
That's why moonlandings fake theories fail. If it was it would have leaked by now. Too many know and all won't hold silent.
Also give the Space Race, if it was easily proven fake as various people with no understanding of physics and the mission itself would claim, surely the Russians of the day would’ve been laying into it from the get go?
Oh yea that too but didn't bring that as it's less relevant to secret leaking out inside.
But yea best conspirasists can do on that is secret goverment that governs world and us&soviet(and every other country) were just faking the cold war(while being secretly joint country in secrecy). Lol. Just imagine scale of people that would need to keep silent to do something like that...
But that wouldn't really apply here. One can assume if 1 goverment has evidence others have too but then they don't have motivation to expose other as such.
My favourite one was that someone did an analysis of how much it would cost to fake the moon landings and then hush it up. Reckoned it would cost 2-3 times what the actual moon landing s cost…
The thing about aliens...if the government did have evidence of aliens...why would they cover it up?
Do they think it would cause a panic? Western governments have been manufacturing fear for the last 100 years (the commies, the jihadis, the russians, etc). Tangible evidence of aliens would let them leverage MORE control over the populace, and more pork barrel stuff to line their pockets (alien invasion bunkers aren't cheap). The government only tries to cover up its misdeeds, everything else is an opportunity to seize more power/control.
And, they'd devote far more time and money to space based weapons. We can't even mount a serious defense against planet killer asteroids, something we know for a fact is possible. But if you knew aliens were real and were visiting Earth, you'd think you'd weaponize orbit ASAP (under the cover of anti-asteroid defense).
Honestly I sometimes think the government is pushing the UFO theories to distract the weaponized autism crowd from real issues (mismanagement, corruption) that they couldn't easily dismiss.
Sorry that I'm late to the party, I'd just like to point out that it is a known, verifiable fact that the Soviets used UFO sightings to convince otherwise patriotic Americans to spy on military bases and publish the photos of what they saw.
I happened to be in college when the Wall came down and for a while there was a whole genre of "KGB officials tell all for fame and also a paycheck capable of buying their family food."
If you think about it, the idea was actually brilliant: convince people that major US test sites are actually harboring space aliens. Carefully "leak" fakes picture showing that "OMG, they have landed in Russia, too!" I don't know if anyone remembers, but "Secret Soviet UFO Films" were a thing.
But it was always a put-on. The Soviets could easily provide covert funding for the various newsletters where "experts" compared their findings and of course the Reds were happy to have a corps of unpaid free-lance photographers roaming around without any possible hint of Communist sympathies.
One of the ex-officials even spoke to a class I attended ("History of Cold War Espionage" was an awesome elective if there ever was one!) and was quite droll about the whole thing. I've still got his book lying around on a shelf somewhere.
tneva82 wrote: Well we are working on anti-asteroid protections
(and did manage to alter asteroid course)
Yes, I know, but supposedly all this alien stuff started in the 1950's, and only now we're actually getting a little bit serious about anti-asteroid tech. If the gov't knew about aliens, it's the perfect cover for anti-alien weapons in space. Same thing with tech to scan the solar system for spacecraft (...err...asteroids!); not much effort and money has gone into it, relatively speaking.
Complaining about tracking chips goverment installs while carrying phones(aka super effective spy tracking devices) around you exposing more data about you any chip could
Overread wrote: But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said
Besides stuff like GPS, sattelite-based weather reporting and forecasting, satellite imaging of the earths surface and so on things like the popular .mp3 file format are the result of various space programs, and let's not even get started about material sciences and related fields.
Leopold Helveine wrote: Sounds grifty to me, especially because I have a book of reasons not to believe in anything Nasa ever released.
Trouble there? Anyone can write and publish a book. Absolutely anyone. A scientific paper however is the work of months, years, perhaps decades, and unlike some conspiracy book? Subject to Peer Review, where others in the field actively try to debunk or find a flaw in the methodology.
We see this in the conspirasphere, where one can simply claim to be an expert. Sure, you may have a Doctorate. But if that Doctorate is in say, Geology, that by no means qualifies you as an expert in evolutionary biology. And those who fall for such nonsense are seemingly too busy desperately trying to debunk established science, they never stop to question their own source.
Quote mining, removing important contextual qualifiers, video editing to have the answers given to questions jumbled into an order which suits the conspiracy, misrepresenting scientific papers, the Gish Gallop in debates. Even just saying “nuh-uh”. God of the Gaps fallacy (even where one isn’t claiming “therefore God”, but some other oddity). Presenting a false dichotomy (only you or I are right, there is no middle ground or other hypothesis), word salad. They all play their role in promoting utter bunkum.
As I think I said earlier in this thread, a large part of the problem comes from Laymen expecting ever more complex and niche areas of scientific research to be easily surmised in relatively plain language, when that’s not necessarily possible. And when it’s not really possible? That’s where the Woo Peddler walks up with unearned confidence, offering an outrageously poor but easily worded alternative.
Couple of examples? Fair warning these are quite long “debates” featuring Professor Dave. First is against a Flat Earther, the other against a Creationist. He also has one against a specifically Young Earth Creationist, but given that bloke is a convicted tax cheat and wife beater, I don’t want to give him the oxygen of publicity.
If you can spare the time, they’re enjoyable, if often times frustrating, debates. You’ll see the tactics I mentioned above used by the conspiracy theorists.
Overread wrote: But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said
Besides stuff like GPS, sattelite-based weather reporting and forecasting, satellite imaging of the earths surface and so on things like the popular .mp3 file format are the result of various space programs, and let's not even get started about material sciences and related fields.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: If you can spare the time, they’re enjoyable, if often times frustrating, debates. You’ll see the tactics I mentioned above used by the conspiracy theorists.
I prefer the term "crackpot" to "conspiracy theorists" because there are actual conspiracies whose existence could only be proven many years after the fact. That term was invented in part to aid in their concealment.
Call 'em what they are: crackpots, because the problem with their theory is that its illogical, not that it involves a lot of people.
Of course, the crackpots will point to any former conspiracy theory now proven true, however unrelated to their drivel, that therefore they must be right as well.
This was broadcast again last night, only caught bits and pieces as I had family obligations, but well worth a watch if you have a means of accessing iPlayer.
What's most striking is the level of certainty many very highly qualified minds have about the presence of alien life.
Honestly for a long time now I think most people who have a scientific take on the world around them accept that aliens life is very likely to the point where it would be baffling if it weren't.
The real issue is intelligent life not just microbial and also that we might never actually get to meet or see any within our lifetimes as the distances are so impossibly vast as to require a whole new subset of physics and science to create technology that could cross the gulf.
And honestly we still have hope of that even if its not within our grasp now. One only has to look not very far back to when space was an impossibility; when flight was an impossibility; when the depths of the sea or lands far off were impossible. They became possible; then they became practical and now many are necessary to regular life.
While I doubt UFO’s are actually extraterrestrial craft, I find some of the reasoning against the possibility unconvincing. Earth has had an atmosphere visibly altered by photosynthetic life for what, 300 million years? With our current understanding of physics, we can see how intelligent aliens could have had plenty of time to send a colony or scientific mission the slow way. There is lots of room in the solar system for a monitoring station and/or shipyard. There is room for the possibility they didn’t only come here specifically for us, or that they might have become more interested in earth with the advent of technological civilization, and stepped up their monitoring while camouflaging their local assets. Its not necessary to assume every atmospheric craft needed to cross 100 light years to get here.
Overread wrote: Honestly for a long time now I think most people who have a scientific take on the world around them accept that aliens life is very likely to the point where it would be baffling if it weren't.
Groupthink also applies to intellectuals.
See also: Eugenics, Phrenology, etc.
All the "smart people" being into something doesn't make it true, it merely makes it popular within a certain social caste.
See I never said smart, I just said a scientific take. You can be into science and still get things wrong (flat earth).
However if you want the more wordy answer you could say that current scientific thinking leans strongly in the support of there being alien life in the universe on other worlds. From single to multi-cellular life.
Based upon our current understanding of the world around us and the universe we live in.
Also Eugenics does work scientifically. We've been doing it for thousands of years with livestock and plants. It's simply selective breeding. Of course Eugenics is when its applied to humans and was also strongly connected to elements such as racism, discrimination and flawed understanding of genetics and such. Understandably it gets wrapped up with political elements very quickly and becomes more than simple selective breeding. Furthermore to impose it upon a human population is socially and morally considered incorrect/horrific by many people's standards both today and in the past.
However the core concept of selective breeding to favour specific traits and avoid others is very much proven to work. Of course today we understand that genetics are way more complicated and that the timescales for a human population to have actual change would be quite long considering our slow reproductive rate (we are not fruit-flies). I also suspect most of us have seen extreme selective breeding results through pets and animals where favouring certain aspects, eg visual, at expense of all else, results in a very weak genepool and a higher instance of inbreeding/faults/health problems.
Adeptekon wrote: I really hate arguements that appeal to authority for their justistifcation of why you should accept them.
Depends who’s being asked though.
Me? I’m not a scientist. I got a Double Science “C” grade GCSE and 1996, and that’s about it.
So when some Flerfer, YEC or other fruitloop tries to “debate” me (because all they do is shout, gosh gallop and change the subject) I personally am left with nothing but Appeal To Authority. Because whilst I myself have not done the research or experiments, and in many cases could never hope to? I can point them toward relevant papers, explanations of given scientific theories and explain to them that scientific theories are just “theories” in the common meaning of theory.
Overread wrote: See I never said smart, I just said a scientific take. You can be into science and still get things wrong (flat earth).
However if you want the more wordy answer you could say that current scientific thinking leans strongly in the support of there being alien life in the universe on other worlds. From single to multi-cellular life.
Do we need to go into all the "current scientific thinking" that has been proven completely, abjectly and totally wrong?
Because you're going to need a much bigger thread.
Overread wrote: See I never said smart, I just said a scientific take. You can be into science and still get things wrong (flat earth).
However if you want the more wordy answer you could say that current scientific thinking leans strongly in the support of there being alien life in the universe on other worlds. From single to multi-cellular life.
Do we need to go into all the "current scientific thinking" that has been proven completely, abjectly and totally wrong?
Because you're going to need a much bigger thread.
I mean no because that's just science being science.
Everything is a theory based upon currently understood data. Once we get new ways to interpret that data and/or new data sources/types of data then we can evolve/change or develop new theories.
Overread wrote: See I never said smart, I just said a scientific take. You can be into science and still get things wrong (flat earth).
However if you want the more wordy answer you could say that current scientific thinking leans strongly in the support of there being alien life in the universe on other worlds. From single to multi-cellular life.
Do we need to go into all the "current scientific thinking" that has been proven completely, abjectly and totally wrong?
Because you're going to need a much bigger thread.
I mean no because that's just science being science.
Everything is a theory based upon currently understood data. Once we get new ways to interpret that data and/or new data sources/types of data then we can evolve/change or develop new theories.
That's the backbone of science.
That’s the key principle of science; accepting (even embracing) that you’re wrong when new evidence appears. Compared to religion/politics/conspiracy theories/most other aspects of human culture where people do their damndest to ignore or attack any evidence that doesn’t fit their personal narrative.
From my forays into the daftness that is Flat Earth?
Not only do you need to lie to Flerf, but despite claiming science am the rubbish and totes wrongzors, remember to only claim that when you reckon it supports your argument.
If your staggering misunderstanding of the basic principles means a given theory supports your idiocy? Claim that big completely true.
And it’s pretty much the same for any conspiracy theory. Only the bits you think support you are true, everything else is a lie, and don’t forget a healthy dose of unsupported claims and “trust me bro”.
Jadenim wrote: That’s the key principle of science; accepting (even embracing) that you’re wrong when new evidence appears. Compared to religion/politics/conspiracy theories/most other aspects of human culture where people do their damndest to ignore or attack any evidence that doesn’t fit their personal narrative.
Please. Scientists are just as prone to bias as politicians and are happy to shape their findings to whatever their paymasters want them to say.
There are also plenty of scientists who proved just as illogically wedded to their theories as the most fanatical would-be prophet.
Absent empirical evidence, absent a theory that can be proven false, anything a scientist says is just opinion, nothing more.
Scientists have a massive built-in bias to say that space aliens are real because that opens channels of funding for them, allows new departments (and new department chairs!) and of course they can write books and be on TV shows. Scientists who take the contrary view get...nothing.
Jadenim wrote: That’s the key principle of science; accepting (even embracing) that you’re wrong when new evidence appears. Compared to religion/politics/conspiracy theories/most other aspects of human culture where people do their damndest to ignore or attack any evidence that doesn’t fit their personal narrative.
Please. Scientists are just as prone to bias as politicians and are happy to shape their findings to whatever their paymasters want them to say.
There are also plenty of scientists who proved just as illogically wedded to their theories as the most fanatical would-be prophet.
Absent empirical evidence, absent a theory that can be proven false, anything a scientist says is just opinion, nothing more.
Scientists have a massive built-in bias to say that space aliens are real because that opens channels of funding for them, allows new departments (and new department chairs!) and of course they can write books and be on TV shows. Scientists who take the contrary view get...nothing.
A) scientists =/= science. The principles are different from the people.
B) You are describing bad scientists. Good scientists are aware of their biases and take steps to mitigate them, they avoid speculation (or make it clear what is supported by their evidence and what is not) and they submit to the peer review process, the whole purpose of which is to provide independent verification and validation of their results.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A classic example of good science is the Italian lab from a few years ago that thought it had detected faster-than-light particles coming from CERN; they didn’t publish it as “we’ve discovered FTL!!”, but instead as “we have these weird results, which should be wrong, but we can’t figure out where the error is?”
Jadenim wrote: A) scientists =/= science. The principles are different from the people.
B) You are describing bad scientists. Good scientists are aware of their biases and take steps to mitigate them, they avoid speculation (or make it clear what is supported by their evidence and what is not) and they submit to the peer review process, the whole purpose of which is to provide independent verification and validation of their results.
All people are fallible. There is no perfect practitioner of science.
A classic example of good science is the Italian lab from a few years ago that thought it had detected faster-than-light particles coming from CERN; they didn’t publish it as “we’ve discovered FTL!!”, but instead as “we have these weird results, which should be wrong, but we can’t figure out where the error is?”
I thought the fastest detectable object was the p.r. department rushing out a news release based on incomplete data to line up more grants before the results were challenged.
That the result you gave is atypical is why science has fallen into disrepute. Too many of its practitioners result to arguments from authority or withhold data on the grounds that it could be "misused" rather than show the spirit of open inquiry and free debate.
Even more worrisome are the research papers where authors hide their names to protect their careers. This should not be necessary because the dispute should be with the facts and findings, but a lot of big money is on the table, and challenging it can be fatal to one's career.
Declaring alien life is likely is a no-risk high-reward proposition. Gets your astronomy dept. a bump in grant funding and maybe some new donors.
Also SETI is the SEARCH for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence; they do not claim to have found it, but simply that you won't find anything if you don't look!
Jadenim wrote: That’s the key principle of science; accepting (even embracing) that you’re wrong when new evidence appears. Compared to religion/politics/conspiracy theories/most other aspects of human culture where people do their damndest to ignore or attack any evidence that doesn’t fit their personal narrative.
Please. Scientists are just as prone to bias as politicians and are happy to shape their findings to whatever their paymasters want them to say.
There are also plenty of scientists who proved just as illogically wedded to their theories as the most fanatical would-be prophet.
Absent empirical evidence, absent a theory that can be proven false, anything a scientist says is just opinion, nothing more.
Scientists have a massive built-in bias to say that space aliens are real because that opens channels of funding for them, allows new departments (and new department chairs!) and of course they can write books and be on TV shows. Scientists who take the contrary view get...nothing.
A) scientists =/= science. The principles are different from the people.
B) You are describing bad scientists. Good scientists are aware of their biases and take steps to mitigate them, they avoid speculation (or make it clear what is supported by their evidence and what is not) and they submit to the peer review process, the whole purpose of which is to provide independent verification and validation of their results.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A classic example of good science is the Italian lab from a few years ago that thought it had detected faster-than-light particles coming from CERN; they didn’t publish it as “we’ve discovered FTL!!”, but instead as “we have these weird results, which should be wrong, but we can’t figure out where the error is?”
Sorry to say this, but in my opinion, and based on sort-of an inside view (i used to be a scientist, but am not anymore) the modal, and probably also median, scientist is a 'bad' scientist in as much as the typical scientific paper is written under pressure, has other main motives than furthering humanities understanding of the world (getting another grant, padding your resume, producing your term paper/thesis whatever, furthering some sort of political/social/personal agenda, and others besides) and is (again, mostly) produced to tick some sort of box and in consequence read by few to no people. Peer review is fine and dandy in theory, but it's also a huge can of worms and problems in practice: reviewers often have the same problems as other academics, i.e. are overworked, undermotivated and under all sorts of political and other pressures, have their own agendas, adhere to 'schools' or 'traditions' and so on, there are extreme issues with the realities of the publishing world (extortionate practices by reputed journals and presses, predatory practices from unsavoury publishers, open access questions and so on, i could deliver multiple 45min speeches on the problem and have in fact done so in the past). And that's all within the scope of the system working as intended, or at least by the rules, without any serious attempts at malfeasance or outright cheating.
That being said, there are notable positive examples, like the CERN people you mentioned above, but i stand by my pessimistic notion that the average piece of science is, in fact, bad science, and that the public notion of science (outside of some specific fields like e.g. Genetics, Nuclear etc.) is much better than is merited, and in fact much better than the inside view on it. I'd not go so far as to claim that the general public has rose-tinted glasses in this particular question, but people who know how the sausage is made are more pessimistic about it for a reason.
I could keep going, because there are tons of hits for universities announcing funding for this sort of thing.
And note that none of that is about them saying it is likely that aliens are out there, or have visited us. It is about identifying spectral signatures that might be a sign of possible life due to technology. Spectral analysis is already a key part of astronomy, this is just trying to expand on that.
Also:
This is the first NASA non-radio technosignature grant ever awarded
Hardly seems like a great way to try and get funding, hoping that NASA will throw money at you which has never been granted before, does it?
A Town Called Malus wrote: No astronomy department is getting grant money by saying that it is likely that alien life exists.
This is your original post.
I proved that yes, they are getting grants on the assumption that it does exist and can be found. Otherwise, why look for it?
Now you want to add additional qualifiers, when all I did was pull the first post that hit on the search. There are many, and it's not worth my time to keep pasting them here.
A Town Called Malus wrote: No astronomy department is getting grant money by saying that it is likely that alien life exists.
This is your original post.
I proved that yes, they are getting grants on the assumption that it does exist and can be found. Otherwise, why look for it?
Now you want to add additional qualifiers, when all I did was pull the first post that hit on the search. There are many, and it's not worth my time to keep pasting them here.
No, none of that research is assuming that they do and can be found.
It is assembling a database that might be applicable if they do and have followed a similar technological advancement as us.
I tend to believe none of this is new. People tend to give themselves credit for being "alive", like their swirl of atoms is something unique in nature rather than a naturally occurring process that is attempting to happen everywhere under any circumstance in a multitude of ways, in a observable universe we just showed up in yesterday.
Do we need to go into all the "current scientific thinking" that has been proven completely, abjectly and totally wrong?
This is an intrinsic misunderstanding of what 'science' is on a conceptual level.
The bit where the 'current scientific thinking' was 'proven completely, abjectly and totally wrong' was done by...science. Science is both sides of the coin. Science disproves science. The alternative is claiming that 'God did it' or some other such thing and not looking for an explanation - but such things 'prove' nothing because 'proof' is unneeded. That's why they're not science.
The minute you attempt to test a hypothesis to produce 'proof', you did science, and therefore your thinking is now current scientific thinking. And your science disproved the other science, therefore proving the triumph of science as a method and reinforcing the triumph of current scientific thinking. You can claim that your particular science is 'good' science and the previous science was 'bad science', but its still science all around, and your 'good' science may well be susceptible to other flaws or problems or restrictions you haven't noticed yet.
Any disproven scientific thinking is therefore logically 'past scientific thinking' at best by definition, but even that gets it wrong, because scientific opinion and scientific thinking are two different brushes.
Really, this sort of discussion is a bit like how people think 'technology' is gadgets and gizmos and invention when it's knowledge.
And to point to “ha, science was wrong about X” isn’t as interesting as trying to understand why it was wrong, and what changed in our understanding.
Nor is it a problem for science as a whole to say “we don’t know”. Or even “we’ll likely never know”.
Take the poorly referred to as “Big Bang”. Scads of evidence to support such as cosmic background radiation and that. But…what was there before and what caused it? I don’t know. And given our universe came from that….we may never come even close to finding out, on account what is now replaced what was then. If there was anything. That’s not flaw in the theory itself. And it’s certainly not something you can just say “well then God did it”. And even if a god did do it? That doesn’t mean they hung around, and if they did it, it still doesn’t mean it was your god.
Overread wrote: Not only that but the idea that they can all work together and agree on that.
They can't get peace or sort out finances or anything; but they CAN hide aliens from everyone else.
How'd the worldwide lockdowns come to being again?
Sure they can hide things from the public, for instance.. try going to the antarctic as an individual explorer and find out that there are world-wide agreements between literally all country governments to prevent you from that at gunpoint.
But that doesn't mean they "hide aliens from outer space", just that they universally hide things from the public.
Overread wrote: But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said
Complaining about tracking chips goverment installs while carrying phones(aka super effective spy tracking devices) around you exposing more data about you any chip could
I don't own a phone personally, and my home computer (currently storaged) has no internet-connection (removed the chip) + I have no internet provider at home to begin with. (on a laptop at a family adress for internet use about 1-2 hours a day)
I'm no 'conspiracy theorist', just self relient and taking nothing the government says for granted, which is pretty healthy mind you.
Overread wrote: But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said
Besides stuff like GPS, sattelite-based weather reporting and forecasting, satellite imaging of the earths surface and so on things like the popular .mp3 file format are the result of various space programs, and let's not even get started about material sciences and related fields.
I don't even listen to music, I have a guitar for that.. or used to make my own anyway (as an ex composer)
Music is at its core cymatic in- -formation, so it's best to be careful with that, just like with what you eat or drink.
Most material sciences are based on faulty presumptions easily disproven, take gravity for instance, while buoancy and density explains such affairs much better.
weather reporting was done with equal accuracy in ancient times, satellites float about on balloons and are generally limited. Why do you think Nasa is the number 1 buyer of helium in the world? GPS is simply a substitute to human in-telligence, like most digital tools are.. as noone had problems reading maps before, and when seafaring was concerned, that was a matter of life and death.
Leopold Helveine wrote: Sounds grifty to me, especially because I have a book of reasons not to believe in anything Nasa ever released.
Trouble there? Anyone can write and publish a book. Absolutely anyone. A scientific paper however is the work of months, years, perhaps decades, and unlike some conspiracy book? Subject to Peer Review, where others in the field actively try to debunk or find a flaw in the methodology.
We see this in the conspirasphere, where one can simply claim to be an expert. Sure, you may have a Doctorate. But if that Doctorate is in say, Geology, that by no means qualifies you as an expert in evolutionary biology. And those who fall for such nonsense are seemingly too busy desperately trying to debunk established science, they never stop to question their own source.
Quote mining, removing important contextual qualifiers, video editing to have the answers given to questions jumbled into an order which suits the conspiracy, misrepresenting scientific papers, the Gish Gallop in debates. Even just saying “nuh-uh”. God of the Gaps fallacy (even where one isn’t claiming “therefore God”, but some other oddity). Presenting a false dichotomy (only you or I are right, there is no middle ground or other hypothesis), word salad. They all play their role in promoting utter bunkum.
As I think I said earlier in this thread, a large part of the problem comes from Laymen expecting ever more complex and niche areas of scientific research to be easily surmised in relatively plain language, when that’s not necessarily possible. And when it’s not really possible? That’s where the Woo Peddler walks up with unearned confidence, offering an outrageously poor but easily worded alternative.
Couple of examples? Fair warning these are quite long “debates” featuring Professor Dave. First is against a Flat Earther, the other against a Creationist. He also has one against a specifically Young Earth Creationist, but given that bloke is a convicted tax cheat and wife beater, I don’t want to give him the oxygen of publicity.
If you can spare the time, they’re enjoyable, if often times frustrating, debates. You’ll see the tactics I mentioned above used by the conspiracy theorists.
Flat earth Dave is probably just a cultist.. trying to build a following to self importance while he is incapable of actually going through actual data and runs on speculation into the fantastical domain..
Weiss is the type that you see among those Q-anons explaining everything according to zohar or kabbalah reoccuring patterns pulling water from an endless well directly connected to the freaking river.
I think you would rather enjoy reading the Flat earth FAQ book written by Eric Dubay.
100% Science, 0% speculation or mythology.
I personally compare such a paradigm with my own work and study being that of Etymology, Symbology, Mythology and esoterics concerning granted, but that could not be done without at first being certain of the science.
I will admit that it is rather antireligious, considering I view religion as intentional encryption of the alchemical (chemistry of all things of our plane), but for instance there is a reason that the book of Enoch is considered Apocryphal and the Jesuits imposed the heliocentric model on most continents.
When taking the Etymology of extraterrestial, finally'.. it simply means (entities of whatever nature of) extra-land.
Eric Dubay does not have any cogent arguments. What he does have are a pack of lies and gross misrepresentation.
There’s no working Flat Earth Model. At all. Oh there have been attempts, but they only ever “explain” one or two observations each. And even then they largely fail.
When it comes to Dubay “debunking” science, he’s got a whole bag of “nuh uh” and sod all else.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Eric Dubay does not have any cogent arguments. What he does have are a pack of lies and gross misrepresentation.
Ad hominem
There’s no working Flat Earth Model. At all. Oh there have been attempts, but they only ever “explain” one or two observations each. And even then they largely fail.
When it comes to Dubay “debunking” science, he’s got a whole bag of “nuh uh” and sod all else.
You couldn't be more wrong about what you've said, theres atleast a hundred debunkings of the heliocentric model in there, all thorough and with mathematical calculation and logic.
Overread wrote: Not only that but the idea that they can all work together and agree on that.
They can't get peace or sort out finances or anything; but they CAN hide aliens from everyone else.
How'd the worldwide lockdowns come to being again?
Sure they can hide things from the public, for instance.. try going to the antarctic as an individual explorer and find out that there are world-wide agreements between literally all country governments to prevent you from that at gunpoint.
But that doesn't mean they "hide aliens from outer space", just that they universally hide things from the public.
I mean aside from the cruise liners that you can book a holiday on; and the land holiday trips and the fact that you can visit as an individual.
The only treaties are the whole host that agree that no one will claim the land as territory to extra resources/project power over. Even those are mostly reliant on the fact that its a huge expanse way out of the way of most nations. The only people who say you can't go there are the people who have never been and who are mostly flat-eathers.
There are international agreements, and they take a lot of work to maintain. Heck locksdowns were a nightmare within countries let alone between them. From some adopting them early; to some late; to some not at all; to others only partially; to some where they went on too long etc... And that was just a few years; consider the massive weight of elements that would have to align to preserve an alien lie decades to over a century in operation.
Overread wrote: But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said
The computer you use requires extensive technology developed by NASA. Heck the TV signals and GPS systems rely on systems in space to function. Even if you don't own the computer and you don't have one at home, all the computing technology around you and which allows you to, you know, access the internet, is based on that technology. Not exclusively, but a huge amount of NASA research and development is in every day life around you. It's running trains and power systems; MRI scanners; car design; mobile phones; GPS; aircraft; TV;
Overread wrote: But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said
Besides stuff like GPS, sattelite-based weather reporting and forecasting, satellite imaging of the earths surface and so on things like the popular .mp3 file format are the result of various space programs, and let's not even get started about material sciences and related fields.
I don't even listen to music, I have a guitar for that.. or used to make my own anyway (as an ex composer)
Music is at its core cymatic in- -formation, so it's best to be careful with that, just like with what you eat or drink.
Most material sciences are based on faulty presumptions easily disproven, take gravity for instance, while buoancy and density explains such affairs much better.
weather reporting was done with equal accuracy in ancient times, satellites float about on balloons and are generally limited. Why do you think Nasa is the number 1 buyer of helium in the world? GPS is simply a substitute to human in-telligence, like most digital tools are.. as noone had problems reading maps before, and when seafaring was concerned, that was a matter of life and death.
If you are going to argue that weather reporting hasn't improved over the last 20 years let alone the last 100 then I can't help but think that you've not paid all that much attention to it. Weather reporting, the ability to track storm development and more has improved a lot. Yes a lot of regular localised systems like barometers still work rather reliably at the local level; but they cannot predict dates to weeks in advance. Of course the further out you go the more difficult it becomes; however part of the limitation is not just comprehension of the systems but also the sheer scale of the planet and the computing power required. As computers have advanced the ability for models to model weather systems has improved dramatically. Some early models had whole countries just "vanish" in the modelling system because of the rough edges that had to be applied to the data to compress it down to something the computers of the day could process.
Again scientific advance has brought increased capacity and performance and that means better reliability of data and better predictability.
Also note that many of the materials theories taught at school are often gross simplifications to convey a concept. University level and such are often much different and the models and theories used are more precise because you're shifting to teaching the current theory not just teaching a concept to grasp an element of comprehension. Indeed many school level sciences stop making sense once you delve deep enough into a subject.
To add some points, NASA has not been the single largest buyer for since MRI machines (that usually use liquid Helium to cool) became widespread, and buoyancy/densitiy does not explain observable gravitational effects that even students can measure with torsion scales.
And i don't buy pseudo-arguments like 'GPS is a tool to replace intelligence' at all: that sounds mighty impressive, but actually just avoids the question alltogether.
I mean aside from the cruise liners that you can book a holiday on; and the land holiday trips and the fact that you can visit as an individual.
Only on the inner strip of the antarctic ring you can "book flights", I mean, try to take your own boat there and be warned once and shot at second.
The only treaties are the whole host that agree that no one will claim the land as territory to extra resources/project power over. Even those are mostly reliant on the fact that its a huge expanse way out of the way of most nations. The only people who say you can't go there are the people who have never been and who are mostly flat-eathers.
there are multiple layers of treaties, among which a total ban on unauthorized entry.
There are international agreements, and they take a lot of work to maintain. Heck locksdowns were a nightmare within countries let alone between them. From some adopting them early; to some late; to some not at all; to others only partially; to some where they went on too long etc... And that was just a few years; consider the massive weight of elements that would have to align to preserve an alien lie decades to over a century in operation.
The lockdowns were no "work" considering all heads of all states were members of the WEF and the WEF already released a lockdown guide in 2010.
The computer you use requires extensive technology developed by NASA. Heck the TV signals and GPS systems rely on systems in space to function. Even if you don't own the computer and you don't have one at home, all the computing technology around you and which allows you to, you know, access the internet, is based on that technology. Not exclusively, but a huge amount of NASA research and development is in every day life around you. It's running trains and power systems; MRI scanners; car design; mobile phones; GPS; aircraft; TV;
I own no TV nor GPS, Nor does my Laptop has it, computer tech has been developed by the military industrial complex, funded by blackrock, so is Nasa part of that construction yes, and I am well aware of that the computer age is created for a purpose (mainly; Adam2.0 which entails the (coicedentially ..or so' the dystopia of Wh40k) merging of man and machine into the virtual, a deeply religious endeavor to create "unity" with ain sof/ein soph(singular mind), and computing systems are but a stepping stone toward a conditioning, not a grassroots invention.)
I wouldn't use an MRI personally, I don't own a car, nor a mobile phone (and never will), nor do I travel by aircraft (I have before but refuse to now.)
If you are going to argue that weather reporting hasn't improved over the last 20 years let alone the last 100 then I can't help but think that you've not paid all that much attention to it. Weather reporting, the ability to track storm development and more has improved a lot.
I believe you mean storm-creating, not reporting. There are systems in place that pull and push in current to create storms, these are not expertly "predicted" by some kind of calculative systems.., at best they are tracked. https://www.bitchute.com/video/IeuWkAmeXQ8W/
Yes a lot of regular localised systems like barometers still work rather reliably at the local level; but they cannot predict dates to weeks in advance. Of course the further out you go the more difficult it becomes; however part of the limitation is not just comprehension of the systems but also the sheer scale of the planet and the computing power required. As computers have advanced the ability for models to model weather systems has improved dramatically. Some early models had whole countries just "vanish" in the modelling system because of the rough edges that had to be applied to the data to compress it down to something the computers of the day could process.
Computers can visualize to a model, they do not calculate predictions because that is simply unnecessary (as I've supplied in the previous link) it would be like using a computer to predict where your salt canister will be put, while it has its predestined canister holder destination already provided.
Again scientific advance has brought increased capacity and performance and that means better reliability of data and better predictability.
In truth it brought dependency and surrogation.
Also note that many of the materials theories taught at school are often gross simplifications to convey a concept. University level and such are often much different and the models and theories used are more precise because you're shifting to teaching the current theory not just teaching a concept to grasp an element of comprehension. Indeed many school level sciences stop making sense once you delve deep enough into a subject.
I personally find using mainstream education as an argument of value deeply flawed in importance. Education is not meant to convey reality but to conform to encryption and impose structured mass formation to a doctrine, in most cases built on pseudoscience and houses of cards. Even the biggest misconceptions can be made to look logical as long as you ignore its trembling foundation, a good example to that principle is the idea that there exists such a thing as contagion.
(had to edit a lot of times due to the quoteboxes messing up, heh)
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Tsagualsa wrote: To add some points, NASA has not been the single largest buyer for since MRI machines (that usually use liquid Helium to cool) became widespread, and buoyancy/densitiy does not explain observable gravitational effects that even students can measure with torsion scales.
And i don't buy pseudo-arguments like 'GPS is a tool to replace intelligence' at all: that sounds mighty impressive, but actually just avoids the question alltogether.
Being able to measure whatever movement of whichever source does not equate to proving gravity.
Also, MRI are contributed to by Nasa, so still tied, and considering Nasa's function is exactly in relation to the endgoal of transhumanism it is in a sense a mere daughter-corporation. Or did you think that MRI itself was a discovery?.. What MRI does, was already being applied in ancient Egypt. (I did have a source on that (detailed papers, not anekdotes) but its gone from google now.. what a suprise..)
Still, Nasa is STILL the single biggest buying of Helium;
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/helium-the-most-important-resource-no-one-is-talking-about-301484471.html "Elon Musk's SpaceX alone is planning a total of 52 launches this year. And that's nothing compared to NASA, the single biggest buyer of helium. NASA consumes approximately 75 million cubic feet annually to cool liquid hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel. Between tech innovation, the future of energy, and the red-hot space race, the helium market is set to increase by 11% every year through 2037. "
Even though the content of that quote is itself a lie, considering Nasa doesn't "cool liquid hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel" but to lift up the balloons for Sattelites (which fly around the plane under one) and whatever shenanigans they film to fool the masses to their space-travel nonsense.
Remember all those newsreports of "the chinese spy balloon" ?
Yeah,.. that was a sattelite. A plane sattelite.
Anyway, most of the allopathic practice is psuedoscience funded by the Rockefellers in partnership with H.P. Morgan, all the allopathic hospitals built are funded by them and the education of doctors was overseen by them while anyone not agreeing with the allopathic practice lost their licence. They did the same in China for one, which was known for its traditional (fytotherapeutic) medicine.
A good book to read about that subject is; Ma Qiusha, To Change China: The Rockefeller Foundation's Century-long Journey in China, Guangxi Normal University Press, January 2013
Back in the day apothecaries had its own gardens with herbs for instance. That all changed too.. and to make treatment in hospitals more expensive, big surgeries were introduced alongside tougher homeopathics (principle of introducing poison to incite a bodily response correlating to it.), which prior were unnecessary if not counter productive but created a bigger and more active market in the hospital industry.
Do note that hospital comes from the Templar faction known as the Hospitallers and Treatment actually originally meant treating - the - mind.
Leopold Helveine wrote: [
Do note that hospital comes from the Templar faction known as the Hospitallers
Nah, the name 'Hospital' comes from the ancient greeks and has the same roots as 'hospitiality' and 'hostel', and was once a more general term for places where people could find a place to get taken care of when they were travelling, sick or infirm in a general sense. It acquired its meaning as a place to care for the sick specifically sometime around the 3rd or 4th century. The Hospital in Jerusalem was founded on papal order in 603, to care for pilgrims to the Holy Land. From 1023 on, there was a monastic order of Benedictine monks who took care of all labours concerning the hospital. In 1113, after the first Crusade, it was expanded with a large Infirmary. In 1118, an organized militia was formed from the Order's members, which was practically the founding of the Knights Hospitaler, however, they only got their official regalia and installment as a knightly order in 1130.
Effectively, the Knights are named after the Hospital, not the other way around, and the word 'Hospital' at that time had it's current-day meaning for at least 500 years.
Also, the Knights HospitalLer are not a 'fraction' of the Knights Templar, and have never been one.
Ignore the troll, they are not arguing in good faith. Just wait out the two hours of internet they have before they go back to their aluminium lined bunker and remember, they aren't a conspiracy theorist despite believing that the entire scientific field has been lying about the world being a globe since ancient Greece.
Or did you think that MRI itself was a discovery?.. What MRI does, was already being applied in ancient Egypt. (I did have a source on that (detailed papers, not anekdotes) but its gone from google now.. what a suprise..)
"I have a source, trust me bro!" I personally cannot wait for the source that demonstrates that the ancient egyptians were capable of manipulating quantum spin states. That is surely to have been written by a legitimate archaeologist who also has a background in quantum physics and not some crackpot with a sheet of paper they printed off at home after earning their diploma from Trump University. It also will surely have been printed in a legitimate scientific journal, and not one of the many pedlars of pseudoscience who print anything as long as you pay them.
I mean aside from the cruise liners that you can book a holiday on; and the land holiday trips and the fact that you can visit as an individual.
Only on the inner strip of the antarctic ring you can "book flights", I mean, try to take your own boat there and be warned once and shot at second.
The only treaties are the whole host that agree that no one will claim the land as territory to extra resources/project power over. Even those are mostly reliant on the fact that its a huge expanse way out of the way of most nations. The only people who say you can't go there are the people who have never been and who are mostly flat-eathers.
there are multiple layers of treaties, among which a total ban on unauthorized entry.
Again, you can go there. Yes you require a permission slip, but you can go there. You can even go to the South Pole.
In fact the article notes that the increase in tourism over the years is likely to result in new legislation to curb the potential damage to the ecosystem that larger scale tourism can create. Much in the same way the Pyramids have found the need to close access to prevent erosion from footfall.
Leopold Helveine wrote: [
Do note that hospital comes from the Templar faction known as the Hospitallers
Nah, the name 'Hospital' comes from the ancient greeks and has the same roots as 'hospitiality' and 'hostel', and was once a more general term for places where people could find a place to get taken care of when they were travelling, sick or infirm in a general sense. It acquired its meaning as a place to care for the sick specifically sometime around the 3rd or 4th century. The Hospital in Jerusalem was founded on papal order in 603, to care for pilgrims to the Holy Land. From 1023 on, there was a monastic order of Benedictine monks who took care of all labours concerning the hospital. In 1113, after the first Crusade, it was expanded with a large Infirmary. In 1118, an organized militia was formed from the Order's members, which was practically the founding of the Knights Hospitaler, however, they only got their official regalia and installment as a knightly order in 1130.
Effectively, the Knights are named after the Hospital, not the other way around, and the word 'Hospital' at that time had it's current-day meaning for at least 500 years.
Also, the Knights HospitalLer are not a 'fraction' of the Knights Templar, and have never been one.
Rockefeller named the hospital after the hospitallers, that's what I meant -in reference.
As an Etymologist I know what the origin of -the word- itself is obviously.
And yes the Knights-Hospitaller are not necessarily as what is generally depicted as Knights-Templar but they are still a templar-faction in their original purpose.
They originate of monestary dwellers originally, both. The Hospitallers though were a violent and murderous bunch and to be considered the military arm and the Templar as we know them are a split off faction originally meant to simply protect pilgrims.. that was demonized because of breaking with the catholic doctrine after they had uncovered the origin of the Iesu mythos in the so called "holy land" *cough* being that of the stoned to death Nozrim leader Yaakov HaTzadik also known as James the Just and took back his head (skull) with them portraying it as the "Idol" referred to as Mahumat which translates to "false idol", thereafter they were excommunicated and hunted down with accusation of "devil worship" (no misnomer considering devil means nature through the root of devolos being dia-bolos meaning ball-of-origin/light referring to the Sun which emenates ..yes.. nature.
Hospitallers were generally deployed against the Ottoman (for other reasons than actually getting rid of them, in fact it was about capturing land rather than being an actual threat, after which they built.. yeah.. -hospitals- on the territory prior having been a calm and prosperous town.)
After capturing this land, being Malta' they changed their name to 'the knights of Malta'.
But I'll keep it at that because this thread was about extra-terrestials (extra landers) anyway.
edit: typed Saracen out of habit, meant Ottoman, sorry.
I mean aside from the cruise liners that you can book a holiday on; and the land holiday trips and the fact that you can visit as an individual.
Only on the inner strip of the antarctic ring you can "book flights", I mean, try to take your own boat there and be warned once and shot at second.
The only treaties are the whole host that agree that no one will claim the land as territory to extra resources/project power over. Even those are mostly reliant on the fact that its a huge expanse way out of the way of most nations. The only people who say you can't go there are the people who have never been and who are mostly flat-eathers.
there are multiple layers of treaties, among which a total ban on unauthorized entry.
Again, you can go there. Yes you require a permission slip, but you can go there. You can even go to the South Pole.
In fact the article notes that the increase in tourism over the years is likely to result in new legislation to curb the potential damage to the ecosystem that larger scale tourism can create. Much in the same way the Pyramids have found the need to close access to prevent erosion from footfall.
Going there through (controlled) tourist transport is irrelevant to the imposition of being warned and/or shot out of the water/sky if you -go there as an individual explorer-.
Also, how deep do these tourist transports go into the south, exactly.. barely.
Ever heard of Admiral Byrd? (Not that he told the entire truth, but that aside)
There's a lot more land -known- beyond that icering, and walking on the inner bit of it doesn't equate to exploring the entire region through. I know all the arguments "its too cold therefor too dangerous", this dangerousness never seems to be an issue when climbing the everest is concerned for some reason while you can use the incremental corpses on that mount as tourist attractions at this point.
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A Town Called Malus wrote: Ignore the troll, they are not arguing in good faith. Just wait out the two hours of internet they have before they go back to their aluminium lined bunker and remember, they aren't a conspiracy theorist despite believing that the entire scientific field has been lying about the world being a globe since ancient Greece.
Or did you think that MRI itself was a discovery?.. What MRI does, was already being applied in ancient Egypt. (I did have a source on that (detailed papers, not anekdotes) but its gone from google now.. what a suprise..)
"I have a source, trust me bro!"
I personally cannot wait for the source that demonstrates that the ancient egyptians were capable of manipulating quantum spin states. That is surely to have been written by a legitimate archaeologist who also has a background in quantum physics and not some crackpot with a sheet of paper they printed off at home after earning their diploma from Trump University. It also will surely have been printed in a legitimate scientific journal, and not one of the many pedlars of pseudoscience who print anything as long as you pay them.
Here's someone who has never done due dilligence and fails to grasp that the ancient world exactly knew and -educated- that the world was a flat plane.
Do you know when suddenly this changed to the heliocentric model? When Jesuits at king's court astronomer professions imposed this.
A good example being China;
"In the 17th century, the idea of a spherical Earth spread in China due to the influence of the Jesuits, who held high positions as astronomers at the imperial court.[125] Matteo Ricci, in collaboration with Chinese cartographers and translator Li Zhizao, published the Kunyu Wanguo Quantu in 1602, the first Chinese world map based on European discoveries.[126] The astronomical and geographical treatise Gezhicao (格致草) written in 1648 by Xiong Mingyu (熊明遇) explained that the Earth was spherical, not flat or square, and could be circumnavigated.[125]"
If you want pseudoscience look no further than the oil-industry of the Rockefeller - Morgan enterprise injecting it straight into the arms of the gullible since hospitals were concieved, atleast it made them a lot of money. So it helped some people.
Here's someone who has never done due dilligence and fails to grasp that the ancient world exactly knew and -educated- that the world was a flat plane.
You might want to tell Eratosthenes that, he calculated the circumference of the Earth in around 240BC. Or is it only the ancient people who happen to fit your particular crackpot worldview that we should believe had it right? You also fail to understand how knowledge works. The Greeks "knew" you had to sacrifice a goat to Poseidon to ensure a safe voyage, yet that particular bit of knowledge doesn't seem to have been accurate, as we now sail across the Pacific every day without needing to sacrifice a single goat to the god of the sea.
Here's someone who has never done due dilligence and fails to grasp that the ancient world exactly knew and -educated- that the world was a flat plane.
You might want to tell Eratosthenes that, he calculated the circumference of the Earth in around 240BC. Or is it only the ancient people who happen to fit your particular crackpot worldview that we should believe had it right?
You also fail to understand how knowledge works. The Greeks "knew" you had to sacrifice a goat to Poseidon to ensure a safe voyage, yet that particular bit of knowledge doesn't seem to have been accurate, as we now sail across the Pacific every day without needing to sacrifice a single goat to the god of the sea.
Let's just... not. Nothing good can come off of this sort of demented Gish gallop, every single sentence of these utterings takes multiple sentences to a few paragraphs to adequately and comprehensively explain not only that, but also why they're wrong, and in the meantime a new heap of bullshits has been spewed. There's no way to keep up with someone freestyling a best-of of the last 30 years of conspiracy nonsense, from the Rockefellers to NASA to Anshunt Eelians and whatnot.
Here's someone who has never done due dilligence and fails to grasp that the ancient world exactly knew and -educated- that the world was a flat plane.
You might want to tell Eratosthenes that, he calculated the circumference of the Earth in around 240BC. Or is it only the ancient people who happen to fit your particular crackpot worldview that we should believe had it right?
You also fail to understand how knowledge works. The Greeks "knew" you had to sacrifice a goat to Poseidon to ensure a safe voyage, yet that particular bit of knowledge doesn't seem to have been accurate, as we now sail across the Pacific every day without needing to sacrifice a single goat to the god of the sea.
Let's just... not. Nothing good can come off of this sort of demented Gish gallop, every single sentence of these utterings takes multiple sentences to a few paragraphs to adequately and comprehensively explain not only that, but also why they're wrong, and in the meantime a new heap of bullshits has been spewed. There's no way to keep up with someone freestyling a best-of of the last 30 years of conspiracy nonsense, from the Rockefellers to NASA to Anshunt Eelians and whatnot.
I know, but sooner or later he's going let the mask slip and mention the Jews, and then maybe he'll get banned.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The Greeks "knew" you had to sacrifice a goat to Poseidon to ensure a safe voyage, yet that particular bit of knowledge doesn't seem to have been accurate, as we now sail across the Pacific every day without needing to sacrifice a single goat to the god of the sea.
Hahaha. Who’d….who’d do a silly thing like that.
Oh by the way, I’ve just put my industrial sized Goat farm up for sale.
Just regurgitating the same old long debunked Flerf Claims.
Next it’ll be “do your own research”. By which they’ll mean “watch some ropey YouTube videos by people who don’t understand the science they’re saying is wrong, because reasons”.
As I said much earlier? Conspiracy Theories revolve on that. If something can’t be readily understood or broken down into simple terms, it must therefore be wrong. Because those invested in it can’t possibly, y’know, just be a bit thick or uneducated in that field.
And don’t forget. Any evidence which directly contradicts your pet conspiracy is just, y’know, fake. C. G. Eye. The Iloomyboobyboys. The Stone Cutters. Them.
Only evidence which you’re told supports your claim, however wild and demonstrably inaccurate that claim is, can be accepted uncritically. Even, especially, when it means you’re cherry picking from the wider scientific knowledge of our species.
And whatever you do? Remember to never, ever, ever, ever stop and think “hey wait. This would require a frankly vast number of people, across many fields, careers and stations of life, to be completely complicit, and not a single one has realised blowing the whistle would ensure vast wealth from media appearances alone. Not. One.
Let's just all agree that there's a crocodile headed god called Sobek who is the lord of semen.
The Ancient Egyptians knew it to be true, and that means it must absolutely be true as that is how knowledge works, the older it is the gooder it is. Like how smoking is totally good for you, bad air causes disease, you can tell someone is a witch by pricking them with a pin, projectiles do not follow ballistic arcs but actually move in straight lines, heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects, and so on. New evidence or discoveries? Nope, the first idea is what is true.
Leopold Helveine wrote: Only on the inner strip of the antarctic ring you can "book flights", I mean, try to take your own boat there and be warned once and shot at second.
Probabilities provide for the possibility of whatever our imagination comes up with including those gods, Gods, or God you don't particularlly care for as being a thing.
Statistically, I am pretty confident there is extraterrestrial life somewhere in the universe. Possibly even complex, intelligent life given the scales involved.
Going from that to alien UFOs over Earth is a massive, massive lengthening of the odds though. Those UFO sightings almost certainly have mundane earthly explanations.
Not sure what this has to do with MRIs etc. besides a conspiracy theory rabbit hole... As a public service announcement, please get an MRI scan if you are recommended one by a healthcare professional, they are superb scans for diagnostic purposes and very safe if you don't have magnetic-sensitive implants.
Overread wrote: But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said
Computer technology
Structural analysis software
NASA software engineers have created thousands of computer programs over the decades equipped to design, test, and analyze stress, vibration, and acoustical properties of a broad assortment of aerospace parts and structures. The NASA Structural Analysis Program, or NASTRAN, is considered one of the most successful and widely used NASA software programs. It has been used to design everything from Cadillacs to roller coaster rides. Originally created for spacecraft design, it has been employed in a host of non-aerospace applications and is available to industry through NASA's Computer Software Management and Information Center (COSMIC). COSMIC maintains a library of computer programs from NASA and other government agencies and sells them at a fraction of the cost of developing a new program. NASA Structural Analysis Computer Software was inducted into the Space Foundation Space Technology Hall of Fame in 1988.[7][27][29][40][41][42]
Remotely controlled ovens
Embedded Web Technology (EWT) software—originally developed by NASA for use by astronauts operating experiments on the International Space Station—lets a user monitor and/or control a device remotely over the Internet. NASA supplied this technology and guidance to TMIO LLC, which developed remote control and monitoring of a new intelligent oven product named "Connect Io." With combined cooling and heating capabilities, Connect Io refrigerates food until a customized pre-programmable cooking cycle begins. The menu allows the user to simply enter the dinner time, and the oven automatically switches from refrigeration to the cooking cycle, so that the meal will be ready as the family arrives home for dinner.[12]
NASA Visualization Explorer
On July 26, 2011, NASA released the NASA Visualization Explorer app for the iPad. The application delivers real-time satellite data, including movies and stills, of Earth, that enable users to learn about subjects such as climate change, Earth's dynamic systems and plant life on land and in the oceans. The content is accompanied by short descriptions about the data and why it is important.[43][44]
OpenStack
NASA developed a cloud compute platform to give additional computer and storage resources for its engineers, called Nebula. In July 2010, the Nebula code was released as open source and NASA partnered with Rackspace, to form the OpenStack project.[45] OpenStack is used in the cloud-based products from many companies in the cloud market.
Software catalog
NASA released a software catalog in 2014 that made over 1,600 pieces of software available to the public at no charge.[46][47]
Not to mention putting us on the Moon, getting a Lander or two on to Mars. Showing us many many beautiful pictures of our gorgeous big blue marble in the majesty of space.
What has Flerf given us? ThE bLaCk SwAn. A…15 Degree Per Hour Drift (RIP Bob Nodel) and of course Jeranism proving the curve then lying about his experiment.
And yes the Knights-Hospitaller are not necessarily as what is generally depicted as Knights-Templar but they are still a templar-faction in their original purpose.
They originate of monestary dwellers originally, both. The Hospitallers though were a violent and murderous bunch and to be considered the military arm and the Templar as we know them are a split off faction originally meant to simply protect pilgrims.. that was demonized because of breaking with the catholic doctrine after they had uncovered the origin of the Iesu mythos in the so called "holy land" *cough* being that of the stoned to death Nozrim leader Yaakov HaTzadik also known as James the Just and took back his head (skull) with them portraying it as the "Idol" referred to as Mahumat which translates to "false idol", thereafter they were excommunicated and hunted down with accusation of "devil worship" (no misnomer considering devil means nature through the root of devolos being dia-bolos meaning ball-of-origin/light referring to the Sun which emenates ..yes.. nature.
Hospitallers were generally deployed against the Ottoman (for other reasons than actually getting rid of them, in fact it was about capturing land rather than being an actual threat, after which they built.. yeah.. -hospitals- on the territory prior having been a calm and prosperous town.)
After capturing this land, being Malta' they changed their name to 'the knights of Malta'.
there is so much wrong here and stuff mixed up I don't even know were to start
first of all, Hospitaller are a branch within an order, specially those running the hospitals while during the crusades they also added military task to their duties
the 3 Knightly Orders we associate today with the Hospitallers are the Johanniter, Malteser and Deutschorden, as those 3 were the ones running hospitals during the early crusades and still do today (with others vanished over time) with Johanniter and Malteser originate from the same order but split in the early 15th century in a catholic and protestant order (both are still named order of st. john but as the catholic one had their headquarter in Malta they are referred to as order of Malta). So I guess you are referring to Johanniter and not Hispotaller in general as every catholic order had a hospitaller branch (and those were not the military arm but the nursing arm)
and there is no Templar faction, you mean military/knightly orders were the Templar were one of them same as the Johanniter, Deutschorden, Mercedarians, Lazarists, and so on. Templars were the first to combined the knightly oath with the oath of the monks and swore those oath in the temple of Jerusalem (hence their name)
they are not a split off faction but literal the first military order and the other orders who were present during the crusade build the military branch based on the Templar one as while they existed before they were pure nursing orders.
and none of those was successful with the military operations in the holy land, and non of them was "deployed" as there was no higher authority that could deploy them somewhere (they basically did what they wanted even fighting against each other for political influence) which was one reason why they left and became more famous as military arm in Europe as they were fighting along regular forces there were they had more success
and the Templars were dissolved because unlike the other large orders (Johanniter and Deutschorden) they did not build up their own realm in Europe and became a state within a state which brought them into direct conflict with the king of France who campaigned against them (after they refused him membership)
so overall, ignoring the "mythical" part, your timeline is off, you are mixing names/terms that should not be mixed and if you want to get such conspiracy theories around at least base it on historical facts and not just what hollywood thinks history was
You might want to tell Eratosthenes that, he calculated the circumference of the Earth in around 240BC. Or is it only the ancient people who happen to fit your particular crackpot worldview that we should believe had it right?
You also fail to understand how knowledge works. The Greeks "knew" you had to sacrifice a goat to Poseidon to ensure a safe voyage, yet that particular bit of knowledge doesn't seem to have been accurate, as we now sail across the Pacific every day without needing to sacrifice a single goat to the god of the sea.
Firstly, Poseidon isn't the god of the sea but of the earth, and at best 'of the abyss' (which is exactly why his trident carried over to the christian bastardized fantasy figure known as the devil, and why this devil is black or red, and its name actually comes from devolos which itself comes from dia-bolos which translates to ball-of-origin/light (the Sun). Poseidon is an aegean gender-swapped form of the earthly mother / the black queen also known as 'Danu' or 'Isis' and later was named Asherah or Astarte depending on the side of the Levant you walked around in, greatly demonized therein like the rest of Solar symbology it is related to as the "wife of" or alchemically speaking the womb of creation, seeded by the cymatic magnetism emitted by the Sun as what brings forth physical life (also demonized by religions as "fallen" and "filth" and that one should not be of it.. and rather seek for a world to come etc etc).
Now that that's out of the way, to return to the shape of the plane (while all these things are intertwined considering mythology itself is an encryption of the alchemical conditions, history and shape of the earth.) Most so called philosophers came from/studied under a certain faction. At the beginning of all things concerning the logos of our world there were two factions at one point in time inbetween warring and intermarriage.. for the sake of simplification let's call them the sincere and free and the insincere and enslaving. SF and IE. SF referring to Freyasfolk and the IE referring to Magi.
SF spake a language that could not lie without blushing and lead a self sufficient life, IE spake a language deviced to decieve and lived off the work of others. SF was a vast people spanning a great range who dispersed and became seperated into four groups after a cataclysmic sinking of land inbetween Ireland and the mainland coast (Frisia), these seperate peoples where henceforth the Gael among which the Frisii, now seperated by water.. the Gaul and the Danes further up..
Among the northmen were the Finns who were pursued by the IE and their children indoctrinated to religion, they became mercenaries and guardians of the IE all over the world, in Asia and in the Amaruca's. The Gael at the same time had their own microfactions that were lured into this "profession" of reknown and also joined into guardsmenship all over, often interwarring because of rivalry with the Danes, and sometimes allying and intermarrying.
At the same time there was another group that had once been a powerful sea-force from the age of the sea-kings (such as Tunis for one, later mythologized as nep tunis, meaning cousin tunis) that have also been mythologised as Fomorii in the Gaelic mythos (and greatly warped by for instance the Lebor Gabala written by christians much later) who were in actuality western sahara'n peoples that themselves came of a much vaster stretched out civilization known as the Kha's enveloping both the Nubians, Hatti and Dravidians all the way into the Indus valley. These peoples were driven out by the Gael/Frisii when they (The Gael mainly) founded Egypt and the Frisii founded the Indus Aryan age, sacked Kishkinthai and imposed the Veda's.
Around the same time the Hatti were driven out by the IE which had their base of operations in Akkad, under Anitta' founding the Hittites who then moved into Canaan and became Hittite Canaanites and lastly moved into Egypt and became Canaanite Hyksos (Apophis).
Apophis allied with the Nubians and fought mainly against the older Egyptian families (from the bloodline of King Scorpion II which was Gaelic founded, and fought the Nubians instead.)
At this time Babylon was being attacked by those who stayed behind in Hittite land, but they failed miserably, were utterly destroyed by Assur and a pincer made by the Aegean Frisians known as "Phrygians" (military arm of the sea peoples) and went under, later to come back to the surface as the Chaldeans.. this time actually managing to with the help of the Elamite King take it over completely, reuniting with their foundation; the akkadian IE.
The Sea peoples not being a single faction also warred against Egypt, while falling into fractions such as the Phoenicians (mercantile arm) and the Sha-danu (settlers, through Egypt) who became the tribe of Dan and the Philistines. Babylon then turned its leer toward Assur, but Assur had the providence of another party to have come to the table; the Caucasoid Gaul who had moved down from the Caucasus into Media and founded Persia. They there fought vigorously against the IE and this is mythologised as the "Ahzi Dahaka" folklore which refers to the vileness of the IE. Now, Wikipedia (being incorrect as usual) claims that "the Zoroastrians were the same as the IE (Magi)", while in reality.. they were opponents, as many scholars have established and I personally have validated and vindicated in my own decades long studies and documentaries.
The aforementioned tribe of Dan, along with Levite groups (egyptians who were grafted into the Atenist culture (atenism being an akkadian/hittite/canaanite form of the Taaru/Tharapitha/Thor culture which came with the Danes that were trading with Thuthmose III, practically hijacking it into a priesthood rather than a communal thing.., Thutmose, translated as djehuty moses or "david moses" means "born of thoth/david" and his royal scribe was called "djehuty" without an appendix meaning Thoth', which is moreof a scribal title than an actual name considering Thoth is the "god of writ".) went to Babylon aswell where they were united with the Median faction of the collective IE.
Then, a misjudged figure came to power, born in Media.. bolstering his power in Elam..
Median-Elamite king Cyrus, who came to the aid of the IE (Magi/Chaldeans) in Babylon, which were losing against Assur at this point in time.
He "freed" the aforementioned Danites and Levites to return to the Canaan.
Very well, that all behind us I'll explain why this could possibly in any way have to do with the shape of the earth..
Because the second group (IE) is a group that seeks to control language, language at the foundation of all our history being SYMBOL.. not writ.
Symbols used to convey the state of our earth and its history, but this group distorted it into a language of deception; writ.
This language of deception is the core of mythology. Mythology and its pantheon and its worship and relgions are a layer of ingenuity and incryption of alchemical principles, attributes and most importantly; meaning.
Meaning of alchemy is THE target of this group which I personally tend to simply call "the priestclass" considering it always moves itself as the authoritative clergy over whichever religion.
The meaning of alchemy is not a mystery itself, it is known and taught in Zoroastrianism (hugely misunderstood generally as a religion itself) in the following principle; Ahura Mazda (the supreme state of genuity, or just call it creator for what I care) emenated itself into the first light; Spenta Mainyu' in order to be able to judge genuity from ingenuity (bastardized into "right or wrong" later by people who don't grasp this subject), the supreme state of ingenuity being called Angra Mainyu (or Ahriman, not to be confused with Aryaman).
To translate this very important part; The absolute by its own will emenated itself into what we know as the -visible creator- being the SUN.. which from that point emenates into the abyss (womb/earthly mother/waters below) the cymatic magnetism (light/sound/frequency) which then' again -by the will of the absolute- created physical reality.
Now the version of the priestclass; The absolute is shattered into a thousand points of light, by whatever space-based mistake or tragic cataclysm.. and against its will is -trapped- into the "void" as in "darkness", its "body of light" fallen and enveloped in an opaque layer of filth (nogah or'lah) and this fallen demiurge (yaldabaoth) is keeping by its own ignorance everything stuck in physical reality, degrading incrementally the value of the light.
This is a hidden war behind all of our history, fought from the conception of the Sun up till today.. something nigh inconcievable to most..
The reason that the truth of our planar reality is ongoingly veiled and ridiculed is because there is an ancient conspiracy in this magi endeavor which endeavors the following principle; 'rectification of nature' (as in -fallen-nature-) translating into; a war against carbon (which is the building block of physical reality) and the Sun.
Now, one cannot possibly war against the Sun if the Sun is a gigantic mammoth of a thing in the depths of space, such a concept would be ridiculous.
One can however war against the Sun if the Sun is in truth much much smaller and moving in a set spiral pattern across our plane..
This is why the deception of the plane exists in the first place.
This Magi priestclass has been and is in overdrive working on the following; bringing into being ain sof/ein soph which translates to -singular mind- (transhumanism, the internet of things and bodies) to replace the natural world (equally incrementally) with a -kingdom of light- as in .. -the virtual-.. until most if not all ensnared in that.. are so demoralized about their own physicality that they care nothing about giving it up and that is quite visible in the world of today allready.
All virtual life is in essence -substitution- and -surrogation- of the natural world demonized ongoingly. It is also hardly still possible to use most of the symbols of nature, because many of those have been demonized aswell. Nature peoples have been hounded down and genocided, take the herbalists (demonized as witches) the druids (demonized as human sacrificers) and the amaruca's natives/indians (demonized as savages).. natural medicine has been outlawed from practice and its sciences ridiculed. Do you see the pattern?
Do note that Symbols are not merely memento mori.. they are also cymatically laden.. so the outlawing of certain shapes and symbols has much greater an impact on our world than one might think initially.. Telurric currents for one tend to converge in such cymatic patterns.
Also the colors of nature itself are ongoingly demonized and repurposed.. but I will conclude for now.. because knowing that this thread is supposed to be about extra-terrestials (as in extra-landers).. there is another layer to it.. which is hard to even get to when you try to explain the true history in relation to it.
Religion has its paradigm, in which most people are convinced without even realising that its part of it..
When you move away from that paradigm of religion(encryption of alchemical reality) there arise different potentialities.. I for one cannot possibly prove what lays behind the ice wall, and at best we have the moon map to give us an impression.. but that would never suffice for science..
Science demands exploration made impossible and until that is made possible we are left with speculation.
So at the end of all this.. all we can do is use Etymology and Symbology to get somewhat of an impression, Etymology for one also quickly teaches you that there was a specific point in time where language changed; the so called Pallas Athene group (Athene shakes her spear at the profane) which was lead by none other than Francis Bacon. That's a long story though.. I would rather not vanilla-type-down as I did all the above..
Kind regards regardless, wether you think of me lowly or not, all I just explained is a treasure trove for anyone that has the character to entertain thoughts not agreed with.
-Leopold Helveine.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Not to mention putting us on the Moon, getting a Lander or two on to Mars. Showing us many many beautiful pictures of our gorgeous big blue marble in the majesty of space.
Yes showing you pictures that are CGI, there isn't a single "picture" of that "blue marble" that is an actual photograph you know.. even mr. blue marble himself said that it was photoshopped "because it has to be".
And putting us on the moon in a paper box with a single wrap of aluminium foil and some ducktape (officially admitted to have been its material), you believe that?.. Please explain why every single picture of the moonlanding is full of artifacts too.
Sorry man, but the moon landing is no different than believing in jesus.
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kodos wrote: there is so much wrong here and stuff mixed up I don't even know were to start
first of all, Hospitaller are a branch within an order, specially those running the hospitals while during the crusades they also added military task to their duties
the 3 Knightly Orders we associate today with the Hospitallers are the Johanniter, Malteser and Deutschorden, as those 3 were the ones running hospitals during the early crusades and still do today (with others vanished over time) with Johanniter and Malteser originate from the same order but split in the early 15th century in a catholic and protestant order (both are still named order of st. john but as the catholic one had their headquarter in Malta they are referred to as order of Malta). So I guess you are referring to Johanniter and not Hispotaller in general as every catholic order had a hospitaller branch (and those were not the military arm but the nursing arm)
and there is no Templar faction, you mean military/knightly orders were the Templar were one of them same as the Johanniter, Deutschorden, Mercedarians, Lazarists, and so on. Templars were the first to combined the knightly oath with the oath of the monks and swore those oath in the temple of Jerusalem (hence their name)
No I mean that they are a templar faction because they were in Jerusalem for a single purpose all and that was to protect the temple.
they are not a split off faction but literal the first military order and the other orders who were present during the crusade build the military branch based on the Templar one as while they existed before they were pure nursing orders.
the Knights Templar split off exactly as I described because they became "heretical" to the doctrine of the Catholic church.
and none of those was successful with the military operations in the holy land, and non of them was "deployed" as there was no higher authority that could deploy them somewhere (they basically did what they wanted even fighting against each other for political influence) which was one reason why they left and became more famous as military arm in Europe as they were fighting along regular forces there were they had more success and the Templars were dissolved because unlike the other large orders (Johanniter and Deutschorden) they did not build up their own realm in Europe and became a state within a state which brought them into direct conflict with the king of France who campaigned against them (after they refused him membership)
so overall, ignoring the "mythical" part, your timeline is off, you are mixing names/terms that should not be mixed and if you want to get such conspiracy theories around at least base it on historical facts and not just what hollywood thinks history was
There was no timeline mentioned in my explanation kept simple to not write a whole book like I almost did with the earlier post' this quote will probably get placed undernearth in when I click submit. Its not about timelines to begin with, its about the simple line -Rockefeller based his hospitals on the hospitallers', which is a statement that has nothing to do with the etymological origin of hospital preexisting or I would've said "the word hospital's etymology comes from the hospitallers' I didn't say that, I said that -that hospital came from the hospitallers.
That's a lot of words that don't actually offer any reasoning for why you believe the Earth is Flat, round, oblong nor indeed any shape. Other than you believe that a group of people believe in the Borg/Matrix and are engineering humanity toward that goal because reasons.
Overread wrote: That's a lot of words that don't actually offer any reasoning for why you believe the Earth is Flat, round, oblong nor indeed any shape. Other than you believe that a group of people believe in the Borg/Matrix and are engineering humanity toward that goal because reasons.
It does, however, explain succinctly why White Dwarf did not accept his article submission
no, but you list events as "cause and effect" that are in the wrong order
one cannot be the effect of another cause if that "effect" was the one happening first
Poseidon isn't the god of the sea but of the earth,
Poseidon is the God of Sea/Ocean, Gaia is the God of Earth and if you already base are explanation on something that is off, the rest does not work out either, specially in addition if your "cause and effect" are in the wrong order
no, but you list events as "cause and effect" that are in the wrong order
one cannot be the effect of another cause if that "effect" was the one happening first
Poseidon isn't the god of the sea but of the earth,
Poseidon is the God of Sea/Ocean, Gaia is the God of Earth and if you already base are explanation on something that is off, the rest does not work out either, specially in addition if your "cause and effect" are in the wrong order
Syncretism my friend.
All those pantheons are strongly interconnected.
Poseidon is -associated- with the (deified and mythologised nep tunis/cousin tunis) "god" Neptune, but is -not- the god of sea or oceans unless as I described concerned with the "abyss".
His very name means lord of the earth, go figure.
This is a digital image of the models I’ve built so far from the Leviathan boxed set. Taken to post on my Instagram and FB the other day.
Being a digital image? It is, in a sense…..Cee. Gee. Eeeeeeeye. Because digital images are digital recreations based on input and programming and that. It does not, in itself, mean the photo is in anyway faked, or of a non-existent subject.
An image being digital, whether with a simple camera phone, in my case my iPad, or being a composite comprised of sensors and other high tech gubbins reading and data does not make it fake.
Eric “liar liar pants on fire” Dubay and literally ever other flerfer however must push such a narrative so they don’t have to go to too much bother to keep up their lies. Because? You Gotta Lie To Flerf.
Overread wrote: That's a lot of words that don't actually offer any reasoning for why you believe the Earth is Flat, round, oblong nor indeed any shape. Other than you believe that a group of people believe in the Borg/Matrix and are engineering humanity toward that goal because reasons.
Ever heard of the Huluppu tree?, Yggdrasil?(means; terrible horse), the leafless branchless tree?, The magnetic mount?, The Meru?, because that is the very start of this situation, and also why the symbol for the Sun is the oldest map of the planar earth, like the discs of the ancient Norse cosmogony..
Circle with a dot in the middle, the dot is the north (magnetic mount) and the circle is the south.
As for someone stating something about jewry, this subject is a LOT more ancient than the conception of jewry to begin with so no..
but there are elements that have carried over in judaism, sure.. just as much as there are loads of elements from there carried over into Islam and Christianity, Bhuddism and Hinduism.. it is only relevant -generally- because all religions are so called babylonian-speech-confusion in the sense that it is encryption (mythologization) of alchemical reality.
Overread wrote: That's a lot of words that don't actually offer any reasoning for why you believe the Earth is Flat, round, oblong nor indeed any shape. Other than you believe that a group of people believe in the Borg/Matrix and are engineering humanity toward that goal because reasons.
Ever heard of the Huluppu tree?
Of course, it's where they get Huluppu-ridol from, you should try some
no, but you list events as "cause and effect" that are in the wrong order
one cannot be the effect of another cause if that "effect" was the one happening first
Poseidon isn't the god of the sea but of the earth,
Poseidon is the God of Sea/Ocean, Gaia is the God of Earth and if you already base are explanation on something that is off, the rest does not work out either, specially in addition if your "cause and effect" are in the wrong order
Poseidon's origins are cthonic IIRC, I think early mythology places him as a husband of early Persephone (around the time of the Minoans and Mycenaeans). At this time, Persephone appears to be firmly cthonic too. Hades cropped up later to take the Cthonic elements and Poseidon morphed into a sea god as he is commonly known today. I am fairly confident Neptune is later than Poseidon as a see god though, and is simply the Roman pilfering of the Greek god.
We see this with a number of gods- Hermes and Pan look to have split from an older, more scary Pan that combined the attributes of both later gods.
no, but you list events as "cause and effect" that are in the wrong order
one cannot be the effect of another cause if that "effect" was the one happening first
Poseidon isn't the god of the sea but of the earth,
Poseidon is the God of Sea/Ocean, Gaia is the God of Earth and if you already base are explanation on something that is off, the rest does not work out either, specially in addition if your "cause and effect" are in the wrong order
Poseidon's origins are cthonic IIRC, I think early mythology places him as a husband of early Persephone (around the time of the Minoans and Mycenaeans). At this time, Persephone appears to be firmly cthonic too. Hades cropped up later to take the Cthonic elements and Poseidon morphed into a sea god as he is commonly known today. I am fairly confident Neptune is later than Poseidon as a see god though, and is simply the Roman pilfering of the Greek god.
We see this with a number of gods- Hermes and Pan look to have split from an older, more scary Pan that combined the attributes of both later gods.
You are somewhat correct, but it is not that he "became a sea god" but that he became associated with the Aegean Neptune as I stated.
Neptune is not later than Poseidon at all, his origins again as I stated are a carry-over of Danu/Isis which is the Gaelic mother goddess (also to a degree the Anatolian Matar, therefor) having a gender swap as was fairly common. For instance.. the Asiatic Sungod is a woman (Amaterasu).
You may also wish to better understand what an ad hominem attack is.
If someone’s entire argument is a falsehood, made up of outright lies, careful quote mining and actively misrepresenting science? Calling them a liar is an accurate statement.
It would only be an ad hominem if the accusation of lying wasn’t related to that argument. For instance. Neil deGrasse Tyson, for all we know, has most likely lied about something in his past. Most likely as a kid to get out of trouble. To bring up said hypothetical lie when he’s explaining gravity as a counterpoint? That would be an ad hominem. Attacking the person, not the argument.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, here’s Professor Dave.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Mate. I’ve seen it before. And every bit of drivel in that video has been debunked.
Because….the Earth is an oblate spheroid orbiting our sun,
I have never seen anything of it being debunked and believe me I've looked hard, I couldn't do any different because my syncretic line of work depends on genuity, studying such matters validity is higher on my compass than outreach.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Mate. I’ve seen it before. And every bit of drivel in that video has been debunked.
Because….the Earth is an oblate spheroid orbiting our sun,
I have never seen anything of it being debunked and believe me I've looked hard, I couldn't do any different because my syncretic line of work depends on genuity, studying such matters validity is higher on my compass than outreach.
Try reading any physics textbook, it'll debunk your gak real fast.
Are those videos available on a site that isn't infested by and actively cultivates neo-Nazis?
I am not clear how linking to that interacts with Dakka's family-friendly focus. The content is only tangentially related to the thread topic at best, so maybe don't link that site to here.
Haighus wrote: Are those videos available on a site that isn't infested by and actively cultivates neo-Nazis?
I am not clear how linking to that interacts with Dakka's family-friendly focus. The content is only tangentially related to the thread topic at best, so maybe don't link that site to here.
Then you cannot link to youtube, twitter, facebook or any other site either considering there's people posting crazy stuff literally everywhere.
The posts of random people in comments have nothing to do with the videos anyway. And no its not tangentially related considering there can not be anything coming from space if space is itself nonsensical (which it is in more ways than one)
So "are we alone" can definately best be answerred with "in what?" as, again' extra-terrestrial means extra-land(er).
(I also have to add that guilt by association is moot, just don't read those comments or ignore them.. and if you ask me.. the site is more extremist judeo-christian than "neonazi", whatever that still means anyway at this point.. atleast be glad that there is a site that hosts other views than the mainstream, that's how I approach these subjects.. and if I really would strongly feel something is outrageous I just downvote it there)
Let's have a little test then. Explain Newton's three laws of motion in your own words, using language that is suitable for a 13 year old.
Equal and unequal mass, but that is better explained through density, which itself trumps the theory of gravity.
How does your 'density' non-explanation work in a vacuum? You know, the place where there is no medium for buoyancy etc. to have an effect in, where you can demonstrate gravity?
Let's have a little test then. Explain Newton's three laws of motion in your own words, using language that is suitable for a 13 year old.
Equal and unequal mass, but that is better explained through density, which itself trumps the theory of gravity.
Completely wrong. You literally explained nothing. Your answer betrays that you don't even know what Newton's laws of motion are and that they are independent of his law of gravity.
The first law is that objects at rest remain at rest, and objects in motion remain in that motion, unless an external force is applied to them. If you place a ball on a level table, it will stay where you put it until something acts upon it to make it move.
The second law is that the acceleration of an object, how it's velocity changes, is directly proportional to the force applied to it. If you lightly push a ball on a table, it will have a lower acceleration than if you push it hard.
The third law is that for each force that is exerted on an object, that object will exert a force equal in strength, but acting in the opposite direction, on the thing applying that force. If you push against a wall, the wall is pushing back against your hand with an equal strength. Go stand on an ice rink opposite someone and push that person. You will also go away from your starting position because the force exerted on you by the person you pushed is greater than the force of friction between your feet and the ice when you are standing still.
So, you don't even know Newton's three laws, which can all be empirically proven in your own everyday life in experiments you can perform yourself, but you think you have enough knowledge to debunk what was built off them? You don't even understand the most basic of fundamentals.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: All of science says X. Established and verifiable flight paths say X. We’ve known X to be true for centuries now.
One conman on the internet says Y.
Who to believe. Who. To. Believe.
You can take all these 'wrong' science things and accurately plot a course from A to B. Or load the correct amount of fuel into a plane to actually arrive there. There's experiments literal schoolchildren can perform adequately (with some help) to shoot rockets into the upper atmosphere, or send cameras up there that can actually see earth's curvature. Teams of university students can even send sattelites to space (if they're lucky, and win several rounds of competition). But no, some self-taught dude from the internet and his rogue dictionary will surely unravel that world- and history-spanning conspiracy of totally-not-the-Jeeeeews!-honest that all of humanity has just been too damn blind to see, with some notable *cough*Hitler*cough* exceptions...
Regular viewers will notice he’s not addressed any counter evidence. Such as a digital photo not meaning the subject is automatically faked.
That something could or can be faked, does not mean it was faked. Otherwise, the principle of currency notes and coinage (both of which can be faked) would collapse.
Instead we get standard flerf-flop diffraction and Gish Gallop.
We’re told to read the Antarctic Treaty. I….I have. It doesn’t say what Flerf says it does. So we’re told “not that treaty, another unnamed treaty. You wouldn’t know her. She goes to another school. In Canada. In a parallel dimension”
Rather than explain anything, we’re told “Erf Flat” and “watch stupid video of stupid statements by a total ignoramous”
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Regular viewers will notice he’s not addressed any counter evidence. Such as a digital photo not meaning the subject is automatically faked.
That something could or [/i] can be faked, does not mean it was faked. Otherwise, the principle of currency notes and coinage (both of which can be faked) would collapse.
Instead we get standard flerf-flop diffraction and Gish Gallop.
We’re told to read the Antarctic Treaty. I….I have. It doesn’t say what Flerf says it does. So we’re told “not that treaty, another unnamed treaty. You wouldn’t know her. She goes to another school. In Canada. In a parallel dimension”
Rather than explain anything, we’re told “Erf Flat” and “watch stupid video of stupid statements by a total ignoramous”
Two things:
First: Any image, literally every single one, that you can view on the Internet has at some point been converted into a digital file (if it is not one to begin with), so absolutely nothing you could see online will ever meet these arbitrary (and dumb) standards of 'not being digital' - if you press on hard enough, the conspiracy will be god-of-the-gaps-ed into it somewhere, i.e. evil chips all computers worldwide must have that suppress the truth once you upload a file or something equally outré.
Second: That Antarctica nonsense is abundant in about half a dozen conspiracy theories. 'Admiral Byrd' is also the dude that supposedly lost a lot of planes to attacks from nazi ufos operating from either the undiscovered super-Nazi-colony in Antarctica (the relatively sane variant) or to attacks from nazi ufos coming from the hollow earth, wherein the Super-Nazis and their extraterrestial allies reside (the even less sane variant). In fact, Admiral Byrd was a polar explorer that was tasked with surveying the Arctic (not the Antarctic) due to fears that nuclear-armed Soviet long-range bombers could use it as a surprise attack route (because the world is round, and that is in fact possible) and lost planes and other material due to harsh conditions and extreme weather, the exploration of which was part of his mission to assess the practicality of such a move, and the possibilities to countering it.
Depending on your particular brand of cookery, Arctica/Antarctica (who cares really, one's got Space-Aryans and the other polar bears) is either the entry point to Alien Hitler's hollow earth Kingdom or the mysterious ice wall around the Flat Earth - now you would say that it might be difficult to hold that both of these are true at the same time, or accept 'evidence' provided for one of these as 'evidence' for the other, but that's where a big helping of mental illness comes in real handy...
If you're so far gone to actually adhere to these ideas (instead of only touting them online to get a rise out of people) you have absolutely no problem with believing all of it, and more, at the same time, because with enough tortured thinking you can construct links between everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW not using 'mental illness' as a putdown or an ad hominem, but once that stuff reaches the point where it prevents you from accurately perceiving reality and gets intrusive/restrictive in your day-to-day activity that's an actual mental condition that negatively impacts your quality of life and general wellbeing.
Gitzbitah wrote: Can you just imagine the manpower, logistics and costs involved in patrolling the coast of Antarctica, and shooting on sight anyone who came near?
And then the idea that you have that many soldiers that near a secret.... and that secret has been kept?
It's more likely that extraterrestrials have been given that continent and are enforcing their territorial claims.
Especially when the border of Antartica needs to be enormous in this hypothesis, because it is the circumference of the Earth. Actual Antartica is going to be much smaller than ice-wall Antartica.
Gitzbitah wrote: Can you just imagine the manpower, logistics and costs involved in patrolling the coast of Antarctica, and shooting on sight anyone who came near?
And then the idea that you have that many soldiers that near a secret.... and that secret has been kept?
It's more likely that extraterrestrials have been given that continent and are enforcing their territorial claims.
Indeed - can we see evidence of these shootings and confrontations?
I'd appreciate evidence of the military deployments and the logistical chain to supply them (food, fuel, ammunition, vehicles, maintenance) even, injuries (eg frostbite) obtained through the course of said garrissoning etc.
You don’t need to fly in an (evil) airplane to see the world is round. On a boat on the ocean, you can see the horizon. You can see islands rise into view as you approach them. That wouldn’t happen on a flat earth.
Let's have a little test then. Explain Newton's three laws of motion in your own words, using language that is suitable for a 13 year old.
Equal and unequal mass, but that is better explained through density, which itself trumps the theory of gravity.
How does your 'density' non-explanation work in a vacuum? You know, the place where there is no medium for buoyancy etc. to have an effect in, where you can demonstrate gravity?
How does propulsion work in a vacuum?
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: You don’t need to fly in an (evil) airplane to see the world is round. On a boat on the ocean, you can see the horizon. You can see islands rise into view as you approach them. That wouldn’t happen on a flat earth.
That's literally perspective, do lightpoles beside the road go down a curve?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: All of science says X. Established and verifiable flight paths say X. We’ve known X to be true for centuries now.
One conman on the internet says Y.
Who to believe. Who. To. Believe.
How about believing the science over who says it, and use your senses while doing it rather than "trusting experts wether or no known - because we did so for a long time".
This has derailed far enough into the land of bizarre and weird. Also, for future reference do not link to pro Neo-Nazi/Alt Right/Hate endorsing sites here or your account will be instantly, permanently suspended.
