Fellow Dakkaites, I invite you to discuss here about the 10th edition mini-codex relased today for the Imperial Guard.

Here is the document :
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/xOjVS3Asx2QJ13lk.pdf

As the discussion will evolve, I plan to organize the original message with an index and links to all the developments within the thread, also relevant articles and tacticas published elsewhere.



REVIEWS
Goonshammer has already published a review :
https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-the-10th-edition-astra-militarum-index/

Personal takes, from me at least, are that it shows an extremely disappointing lack of knowledge of their own kits. Jes Goodwin made a comment back in the "Designing Skitarii" video that he makes the various model designers build the kit from the test sprues, to make sure it's not a mess. I think the same thing needs to be implemented for the rules team going forward.

I already sent in a batch of stuff for errata, but I think most people who have followed my posting career here can guess most of it lol.

All that said? I like the Sentinels a lot!

With the standard caveat that we don't know points yet... here are my hot takes:

Orders seem clean and simple. they still occur in the command phase, so no orders to deep strikers or guys dumped out of transports. But a simple +1 BS, +1 WS, +1 Save, +1 LD/OC, +1 shot with lasguns/plasma, and +3 move are all fine bonuses.

Born Soldiers only working if stationary bloooows. It also encourages the worst kind of gunline behavior.

Kind of bummed we can't double up on characters, like Space Marine Lieutenants can. Unless way, way cheaper, hard to see including commissars.

Ogryn look great. Bullgryn look weaker, with max 4+ saves. OTOH, AP-1 and D2 isn't as ignorable profile as in 9th.

Ratlngs get AP-2 and D2, plus heavy. might be spicy if cheap.

Rough riders look great. Lance, fall back and charge, and no real loss from 9th.

20 man squads! Sticky objectives are.. fine.

Catachans seem to have at least have a purpose as scouts.

Tank Commanders shoot on death at full BS!

Psykers really buff some durability, but there might not be a unit that really benefits from it.

Ogryn bodyguards, if the right price might be good given the sheer amount of Precision out there.

Kasrkin get one Order free, can take a second one with vox, scout 6",

Sentinels are also spicy. Tougher, both orders key words, and either a nice little buff against hard targets or the ability to "spot" for indirect fire... looks fun!

Heavy weapons and artillery seem fine. Heavy weapons getting better overwatch is nice. Artillery will sink or swim based on points, since there is a lot of overlap between them and other options.

I can't wait to spend more time just ranking the Leman Russes. Early winners seem to be demolishers, battle tanks, and... exterminators????

Basilisk is a pure anti-heavy infantry beat stick. -2 move/advance/charge is nice, as is the damage profile. The Manticore has classic anti-synergy by being anti-elite infantry while getting a bonus against units of six or more models. Still, as part of a turn one against a three wound unit with character... could be fire.

Hyrda is really good at hitting fliers. Then it's S9 and AP-1, and only four shots, but whatever.

Chimera with a basic command squad might be a thing, right? Can dish an order, shoot two guns out the hatch, maybe? Again, depends on price.

Taurox, for when you don't want to deepstrike, but really want to propel a unit forward. And not get orders. I dunno.

Somebody smarter than me will need to explain why you'd want to deploy Scions from a Valkyrie on your opponents turn. I does allow them to use orders, so that's nice. But I feel like i"m missing something.

Baneblades give cover, which is kinda cool. Aside from that, it's all about crunching hte numbers between it, Russes, and Dorns to see what work best.

Banehammer has firing Deck 12 and triggers battleshock on it's target and everything else in 3". Not a lot in our army cares about battleshock, so I guess it's an Okay.

the banesword makes stuff blow up on a 3+, which is hilarious and might make me remember that it's a unit in our codex.

hellhammer can shoot normally while engaged, which is a pretty neat ability on an OC8, T13, 24wound tank. Don't' try it against heavy knights, but against anything S12 or below.. could be fun.

Shadowsword gets hazardous wounds against monsters and vehicles, which is funny, because I like the idea of a brick of Deathguard terminators just shrugging it off while (on a six) a tank just explodes.

Stormlord can have a Friendly unit mount up in the enemy movement phase, which is actually pretty awesome. Then you remember it has firing deck 24, and nothing should need to get out unless it's tagging and objective... so...

Scions are basically the same, I guess. Reroll ones, and full rerolls against units on an objective, are a nice rule for a more aggressive unit. Scion command probably will never issue orders if they attach, but that does allow for a bigger, nastier squad. Also, Scions can be recycled with "Reinforcements" if you have a lot of command points.

Overall, the synergy seems to be to use Scout sentinels, expert bombardiers and Fields of fire to allow Basilisks, Manticores, and artillery to blast the hell out of enemy infantry. I also think a mixed armored company could be really nice. Exterminators to give AP1, Battletanks to clear objectives, Demolishers and Dorns for heavy lifting. Infantry aren't bad, but I think even 20 man squads will just be picked up en masse. We'll see.

I do not understand the love for the Russ Battle Tank.

D6+3 shots, rerolling 1s normally and rerolling all against a unit on an objective averages 6 shots, 4 hits without the +1 to hit order, 5 with.

S10 AP-1 3 Damage. You wound most Infantry on 2s yes.

With Armor saves, that's 4-5 GEQ, 2 Marines, and a single Terminator.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Neat little thingy:
the Hydras ability as it is worded does not seem to be limited to the Autocannons. So the Heavy Bolter and Hunter Killer Missile reroll their hit roll too, which is nice.
Also an interesting synergy with the Leman Russ Exterminator which is described as being used as stop-gap air defense: you can shoot a heavy flyer with the Exterminator and by that kick up all your Hydras attacks against that flyer to AP-2

Exterminator is S tier unit now. That is a sight to see, knowing how it has been over the years.

Arcanis161 wrote:
I do not understand the love for the Russ Battle Tank.

D6+3 shots, rerolling 1s normally and rerolling all against a unit on an objective averages 6 shots, 4 hits without the +1 to hit order, 5 with.

S10 AP-1 3 Damage. You wound most Infantry on 2s yes.

With Armor saves, that's 4-5 GEQ, 2 Marines, and a single Terminator.

Is there something I'm missing here?

You're missing Blast.
And that S10 is not supposed to be used against troops, counter to the fact that it has Blast.
So, combining the two (S10 and Blast) it is to be used against units of >5 models, with Mid-to-high-T.
Meaning it has few ideal targets. Most other LR tanks have better specialisations, and the LRBT is a 'master-of-none'.

On top of that, the LR chassis vehicles lost their 'shoot twice' ability.

You need to think in more of a combined arms approach for things like the battlecannon. Sure, base it may not do much. But once you start layering in buffs it can get quite decent. Shoot it at some marines on an objective, so reroll hits. Buff bs to 3+ with an order. Remove cover with a hellhound. -1 ap with an exterminator or fields of fire, or -2 with both.

Suddenly your mediocre weapon is slapping things. And a lot of those are debuffs on the enemy unit, so you can unload multiple units with those buffs.

Scions being an OC1 (conditional) battleline unit feels like a real kick in the family jewels. If you want them to be OC2 you have to attach a command squad (!) with a regimental standard. You will note the other battleline infantry units are OC2.

And yes, you can attach command squads to units, its absolutely bizarre but its legit and you get to attach an additional character (which seems to just be Psykers, Preachers, and Commissars as far as Tempestus are concerned). If I'm understanding correctly, you can also join a Regimental Attache unit to a Command Squad unit that is joined to another unit, as well as an Ogryn Bodyguard/Loyal Protector. So you can conceivably add 10 models on to any unit via the double attachment rule that a number of units have.

A bit annoyed that now attaches are a 3 model unit though instead of being individual characters like previous editions. Going to need to pick up some extra MoOs and Astropaths as I only have Officers of the Fleet.

Scions being capped to units of 10 is a bit annoying - I know thats how it always was, but before I could field more than 6 units of them, so something like half my Scions can't be Scions anymore. Since they are third party minis anyway maybe I'll just make them Infantry Squads instead of running them as Tempestus? Or maybe I supplement my 6 Scion units with 3 Kasrkin units? I dunno, bit of a bummer. Also annoying is that you're capped at 1 of each special weapon per 5 models, instead of 2 each - but only scions, regular infantry squads don't have this limitation at all(Cadian/Death Korps do, but per 10 models) and Kasrkin are allowed 2 each regardless of the size of the unit.

Oh, and grenade launchers are finally useful!

The Cadia stands rule on cadian command squads seems like such a powerful rule. Being able to ignore things like movement modfiers, hit and wound roll modifiers, and stuff like nurgle toughness modifiers is so good. I think Cadians are the best troops now, just from this perspective. Dkok and catachans have a place too, although I see dkok being more points than Cadians.

One thing though, does cadia stands nullify the OC reduction from battleshock? Or does it only work against "modifiers", and battleshock is a set-to-value, not a modifier?

On aos side set value isn't modifier.

Been trying to figure out on 10e rules but haven"t found clear answer yet.

I'm running my first 10th Edition battle tomorrow. 2000 points, Only War mission from the CRB, my opponent is Space Marines and I expect Phobos + Gravis with some tank support (the player is a big fan of this setup). My army will be 3x3 Scout Sentinels (LC+HK), 3 Manticores, Lord Solar, Platoon Command Squad (with Grand Strategist), Gaunt's Ghosts, 4x DKoK, 3x Kasrkin (2x Plasma, 2x Volleygun), 2x Navy Breachers (held in Reserves to come in the 3rd round for some backstabbing action), Vindicare. Plan is simple: push forward with Sentinels, Kasrkin, and Ghosts, and bomb the ever-living gak out of everyone with the Manticores. Wish me luck guys.

How'd it go?

Couple of questions,
1. Does a command squads medipack confer to the entire unit its attached to
2. Does a stormtrooper unit give the ogryn bodyguard or the commisar deep strike?

Hecate wrote:
How'd it go?

We called a draw after 4 hours and played until the end of the 4th turn. He was leading 8-7 but he literally had 6 models remaining on the board in total while I had minimal losses.

The enemy army was originally Roboute, 4x5 Heavy Intercessors, 2x10 Infiltrators, 2 Eliminators, 1 Phobos Captain, 1 Warsuit, 2 Lancers, and 1 Suppressors. After my opponent saw my army he asked me if he could replace 1 Lancer with 1 Hammerstrike and I agreed because he looked really disheartened from me not bringing any tanks and pretty much soft-countering his list. The battlefield was fairly dense with one huge ruin in the middle, 3-3 smaller ones in the deployment zones, and a bunch of barricades in between. We both deployed in two blobs: I had the Solar, the Manticores, and most of my DKoK in-and-behind one ruin, and the Sentinels and the Kasrkin on my left, while he deployed his Phobos in the central ruin facing my Kasrkin and the rest on the edge of his deployment zone facing my Lord Solar. We both redeployed (me from Solar and him from the Captain) but nothing really changed, there was mostly just some reshuffling so that his Warsuit covered the Infiltrators better and I had my Sentinels spread out a little more.

So yeah, lemme break out this one immediately: if the game is less lethal then I didn't notice it. I had the first turn and took a big fat dump on the entire Phobos complement, it was a massacre. All my opponent could do was to Smokescreen his Warsuit but it was little use as it had to survive 6 LC and 6 HK hitting on 4+ and re-rolling 1s - he had a pretty hot hand with the saves but it was just too much. The Infiltrators survived on 4 and 3 models after eating double-buffed Kasrkin and all 3 Manticores but the Ghosts failed their charge so the Infiltrators lived to see the next turn (and score a VP lead as they were sitting on my second objective). A highlight of the turn was the Vindicare sniping the Phobos Captain with Shieldbreaker - Precision is no joke as it turned out.

Two things to point out here: Scout Sentinels benefit from their own abilities (re-roll 1s vs an enemy unit) and Manticores are T10. That latter came in handy because both the Hammerstrike and the Suppressors had S9 guns, so when they came down they only managed to blow up 1 Manticore and put a few Wounds into another. Unfortunately, Roboute and his Gravis blob returned the favor for the Phobos massacre and quite literally cleaved through the center of my army, with Roboute solo'ing my entire command section (10-strong DKoK with Solar and Command Squad attached). But that was the end, with (unhurt) Roboute, 1 Suppressor, 3 Eliminators (his home objective campers who were about to get blasted by my Navy Breachers), and 1 Heavy Intercessor remaining from my opponent's army while I lost my command section, 2 Manticores, 1 Sentinel squadron, and a bunch of Kasrkin. So we agreed to a draw because we would have traded home objectives but I had my no-mans-land objective while he didn't.

Overall, all my units were solid, and the Kasrkin were awesome. Hitting on 2+ and doing FRFSRF at the same time was hot. My only real disappointment was the stratagems, I never even thought about using them, my CP went to Grenades + Command Re-roll (in my turn) and then Smokescreen (in the enemy turn). Lord Solar feels like a must-take and so is the Master Vox for the 24" Order range, these two together were pretty much game-winning. The Ghosts were also very good because they have Lone Operative and a 4-shot autocannon, and I even forgot to use their teleport ability. Oh, and Orders feel pretty darn important, don't sleep on them. I had 7 orders per turn and I wished I had more. I felt like 4 DKoK units were too much as they did jack during the entire battle, but I didn't face Desolators so maybe they would have been more valuable if my opponent leaned more into anti-infantry. Also, you guys probably guessed it, but game-deciding Alpha Strikes are alive and well in 10th edition too.

How much indirect weapons you had to do that much damage t1? Or was your terrain too light? Armies should hide out of los t1.

tneva82 wrote:
How much indirect weapons you had to do that much damage t1? Or was your terrain too light? Armies should hide out of los t1.

My opponent banked on getting the first turn (we both did), but he didn't, and the redeploy from the Phobos Captain could only do so much (especially since I could counter-redeploy with Lord Solar). But it didn't really matter because my Kasrkin and Sentinels all had Scout so there was no escape, I could have easily moved up to get LoS on his units even if he had tried to hide them.

Otherwise, yeah, alpha strikes of this magnitude seem to be a thing. There was another game between Sisters and Votann at the same time, and the exact same thing happened there too: the Sisters rushed in for the kill and crippled the Votann with a strong alpha strike (Retributors in Immolators) that had no real counterplay other than the Votann player Smokescreening their Land Fortress and hoping for the best.

Hide behind ruin? Here you don't shoot t1 enemy key units t1 without no-los weapons.

tneva82 wrote:
Hide behind ruin? Here you don't shoot t1 enemy key units t1 without no-los weapons.

I could have moved into the ruin t1 with everything and just shoot him through it.

 AtoMaki wrote:
My opponent banked on getting the first turn (we both did), but he didn't, and the redeploy from the Phobos Captain could only do so much (especially since I could counter-redeploy with Lord Solar).

Isn't Leontus's redeploy done before rolling for who goes first?

 Trickstick wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
My opponent banked on getting the first turn (we both did), but he didn't, and the redeploy from the Phobos Captain could only do so much (especially since I could counter-redeploy with Lord Solar).

Isn't Leontus's redeploy done before rolling for who goes first?

That's awkward because it is but we thought it worked the same as the Phobos Captain's Master of Deception. Oopsie ...

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
My opponent banked on getting the first turn (we both did), but he didn't, and the redeploy from the Phobos Captain could only do so much (especially since I could counter-redeploy with Lord Solar).

Isn't Leontus's redeploy done before rolling for who goes first?

That's awkward because it is but we thought it worked the same as the Phobos Captain's Master of Deception. Oopsie ...

Eh, it happens. The fun of new rules. Leontus's ability is useful but nowhere near as powerful as after deciding first turn.

Big hater of the new profile for the Hotshot Lasgun, personally, and given it's the basic weapon of one of my armies...

Valkyries dropping thing right in range of your enemy to blow them to bit or chop them to bits is a weird idea, too.

Due to covid, then school, then a long distance move I've been gone from 40k for a while so I figured the first thing I should do when I get my army unpacked is unload some exterminatus grade heresy onto the guard forum: Twin linked AC>Twin linked lascannon & tank commander with a demolisher cannon is a 20 point downgrade until we get our codex. I"m rusty and I could be wrong, but here goes.

1st AC vs LC: I think the current balanced is perfect and they are worth the same number of points. All of that being said the LC is better choice for IG because our index is loaded with effective anti light vehicle/heavy infantry firepower, but TL benefits AC far more than LC and makes it a better all comers choice for an IG list than a TL LC. The TL taking the AC from 33% to 55% chance to wound a heavy vehicle does more than taking a LC from 66% to 89% Before armor saves are taken into account that's 6 wounds at 55% vs 4.5 wounds at 89%. The LC still has better armor pen, but guard now has multiple shenanigans to improve AP so an AC gains far more by going from -1 to -2 than a LC does going from -3 to -4. Against super heavies the TL AC vs TL LC gap is smaller because they will have a 4+ or 5+ invulnerable making any extra AP on a LC wound irrelevant and now it's 6 wounds at 55% vs 4.5 wounds at 75%. The same super heavy logic applies to greater deamons. Hydras and Exterminators are going to be deadly in 10th, and armored sentinels would also probably be better off with AC over LC.

Next lets talk tanks. This edition looks highly mobile with lots of transports, objective control, and lots of fast movers. If you up against an equally skilled opponent they will find a way to tag a 240 point tank and lock it down in CC. The inability to fire blast into CC means the tank commander will not be able to swat aside a squad like the regular demolisher can. Lord Solar can crank out 3 orders to vehicles already so 1 order and death befitting an officer has the following costs.

Spending 45 points and loosing full rerolls to hit against enemies on an objective
Spending 20 points and losing the ability to fire a demolisher cannon into CC and ignore the -1 to hit while in CC
Spending 60 points and losing the ability to fire an eradicator cannon into CC and ignore the -1 to hit while in CC
Spending 25 points and losing the weak sauce executioner +1 to hit on near dead units ok that's not much of a loss
Spending 40 points and losing the additional -1 to armor saves on all future attacks...big oooof
Spending 60 points and having the punisher cannon lose devastating wounds
Spending 50 points, losing the reroll to wound with the vanquisher cannon, and being stuck with a vanquisher cannon in the 1st place.

I don't see a tank commander being competitive against Lord Solar being able to give orders to 3 tanks. The exterminator doesn't lose much by switching over to a tank commander and the plasma cannon is still good, but the abilities in relation to the cost of the other options is just better. I see the Vanilla, Demolisher, Eradicator, Executioner, all being very well internally balanced against each other for the points within the index, the Exterminator and Punisher being a bit anemic, and only the and vanquisher being bad so over all I think 10th ed is very well written.

There is an incredibly easy fix for this we can hope to address in the codex: Make tank commander a 20-30 point upgrade that can be taken 3 times in a list. Without that the single order and death befitting an officer is not worth losing the special ability of the base tank except on the worst tanks that we would not take anyways.

For those of you who have played a game, how does Infantry AT fare? 3/4s of my squads (2 CST, 1 "Kasrkin") have an AT loadout - plasma and melta. From what I've read in the core rules, they'd be wounding tanks on 5s.

I would not consider either plasma or melta to be anti-tank weapons in 10e, they were already barely AT weapons in 9e, now they are best used against heavy infantry, though the melta has some game vs light vehicles. The only true AT weapon infantry squads have access to now is lascannons.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
For those of you who have played a game, how does Infantry AT fare?

It is lascannons (and HK missiles) or bust. Those plasma+melta squads are anti-MEQ/TEQ now.

+1 to wound is really good against armour, and we only have 3 sources of it that I can find.

The first is an ogryn bodyguard in combat when the officer is wounded, so pretty niche.

The second is rough riders. Melta rough riders will make short work of a tank if you manage to get a charge off, although that can sometimes be difficult.

The last is dkok under half strength. I think I may try to build around this somewhat, using melta as one of the types of specials I take. Melta wounding on a 5 is not great, but wounding on a 4 against t17 is usable. Reliably getting to under half strength may be an issue, but medpack healing is worded as "up to 1d3", so you would never be forced to lose the buff.

Oof. Thanks for the advice, everyone. My usual opponent is also Guard, so he'll be struggling with the same things - though he fields Armigers.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Oof. Thanks for the advice, everyone. My usual opponent is also Guard, so he'll be struggling with the same things - though he fields Armigers.

LC+HK Scout Sentinels slap so if you see your opponent pulling out their Sentinel collection then your tanks are in danger.

Note that the Exterminator Autocannons and Hydra Autocannons are twin-linked, so they reroll their wound roll.
Since they are S9 that means they have a
88,8% chance (a bit better then 2+) to wound S5-8
75% chance (2,5+) to wound S9
55,5% chance (4+) to wound S10-S17

=> all in all those are pretty nice odds regarding wounding.
Combine with Fields of fire and the "withering hail" ability of the Exterminator and you have AP-3 Autocannons that wound pretty good.

 Pyroalchi wrote:

Combine with Fields of fire and the "withering hail" ability of the Exterminator and you have AP-3 Autocannons that wound pretty good.

And the Hydra has Anti-Fly, not Anti-Aircraft.
Meaning you got the hilarious situation where you're wounding a Monolith on a 2+ and they're saving on a 5+.

Played a game of 10th yesterday. I definitely felt the pain with my infantry-borne AT weapons, but my brother likes to run a tank/Armiger-heavy list. Currently looking at a FOB for those two shots of S14 shooting with Sustained Hits or a HWS.

I also have a Vanquisher in my collection, which seems to be...ok in that regard, but I don't have it on site rn.

3x2 field ordnance battery
with heavy lascannons (= 12 shots)

Detachment (Lethal) + Faction/Order (BS4+) + Stationary (+1BS, Sustained)

= an average of 22 wounds against an Imperial Knight

That's strong !

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
3x2 field ordnance battery
with heavy lascannons (= 12 shots)

Detachment (Lethal) + Faction/Order (BS4+) + Stationary (+1BS, Sustained)

= an average of 22 wounds against an Imperial Knight

That's strong !

The problem is that's too strong.

Sustained hits + reroll 1s to hit from a scout sentinel will cause 12 shots hitting on a 3+ to yield an average of 11.66 hits. That's better than 23 lascannons hitting on a 4+

The other player will know how deadly they are and priori tize them as a target. 6W T5 and a 4+ save will die fast to enemy fire. They are slow, need to remain still for the +1 to hit, fragile, and your opponent will definitely prioritize them.

You can add 3x3 heavy weapons teams. With the same special rules, you are looking at 14 wounds a Knight.
With the field ordnance batteries, it's only 480 points.

Do you guys think the Aegis defence line is worth it at 145 points? Seems expensive, but I planned to play an Infantry list. 4++ to everything seems good. (It reminds me of the Void Shield Generator era ! I loved that model.)

Also, what about many Astropaths to deny all reinforcements within 12''?

In general, what a competitive army list based on infantry unit would look like?

Can someone confirm me that I can combined the Exterminator canon ap-1 ability with the Field of fire Stratagem, for a total of ap-2 ? Thanks ! Weapon with no ap would be twice as deadly !

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Can someone confirm me that I can combined the Exterminator canon ap-1 ability with the Field of fire Stratagem, for a total of ap-2 ? Thanks ! Weapon with no ap would be twice as deadly !

I can't see anything in the commentaries or the rule wording that stops them from stacking.

 Trickstick wrote:

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Can someone confirm me that I can combined the Exterminator canon ap-1 ability with the Field of fire Stratagem, for a total of ap-2 ? Thanks ! Weapon with no ap would be twice as deadly !

I can't see anything in the commentaries or the rule wording that stops them from stacking.

I would start by shooting something small and regiment like a 10 man infantry squad to get free fields of fire from Ursula.
Then shoot the exterminator and enjoy AP-2 on the damage 3 on the 8 autocannon shots.
Then start unloading other sources of twin linked AP-3 autocannons from sources like a Hydra. 2+ armor saves in cover are now saving on a 4+ and probably also a 4+ invulnerable.
Manticores and Basilisk become AP-4 if they have a 5+ invulnerable we can reduce them to

Light anti tank guard weapons seem like a dire threat with that extra 2AP

Reducing a 1+ to a 6 with AP3 weapons becoming AP5 would be hilarious when it happens, but in general anything worth throwing 2CP and an exterminator into to soften in up is going to have a beefy invulnerable save.

Sometimes it is nice to simply scare the big thing your opponent has.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Also annoying is that you're capped at 1 of each special weapon per 5 models, instead of 2 each - but only scions, regular infantry squads don't have this limitation at all(Cadian/Death Korps do, but per 10 models) and Kasrkin are allowed 2 each regardless of the size of the unit.

i think its just the fixed limitations being put in different places?

regular inf squads can only have 1 special weapon per 10 troops, so they max at 2 of a given weapon total in a 20 man squad which is the same as korps and cadains. kasrkin can only be fielded as 10 man squads so they have 2 per 10 troops which is the same as scions.

I really like the following combination of units:
- infantry squad with two heavy weapons
- Cadian castellan with the drill commander enhancement
- command squad with heavy weapon

Lots of ablative wounds. On a 5+ you get an additional hit out of each weapon, which is really good and pays of great with a lascannon. Factoring in the born soldiers trait, one lascannon shot in average will automatically wound, and two more hits can be expected as well. The only requirement is to remain stationary, which you want to do anyway with the heavy weapons.
Add in the AP shenanigans mentioned above this seems really good to me. Your opponent must invest quite some anti-infantry to get read if these, and a medic in the command squad may provide some additional resilience.

Additionally, I really like the regimental priest in a catachan squad for some unexpected S4 AP-1 attacks. Sustained hits in a 20 models unit can might actually pay off (even if the guy costs about a fourth of the entire squad)

I'm sort of liking this:

20x dkok, 6 specials, 2 medics (pending)
Marshal
Primaris Psyker

Gives you 5+, 4++, 5+++, for a very durable infantry blob. Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue. Decent damage output if it loses 12 models, and the medic is "up to", so you are never forced to lose your bonus with healing.

It's really interesting that, only using different infantry squads, it is possible to build quite the flexible list.
The death Korps Marshall is quite the interesting choice with his 5+++. I bet we will see a lot of that character.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:

20x dkok, 6 specials, 2 medics (pending)
Marshal
Primaris Psyker

Gives you 5+, 4++, 5+++, for a very durable infantry blob. Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue. Decent damage output if it loses 12 models, and the medic is "up to", so you are never forced to lose your bonus with healing.

Sounds good for taking a mid field objective.

I'm not sure what I want attached to Lord Solar and Ursula.

Lord Solar needs a PCS master vox so I'm leaning DKOK for the medi pack over regular infantry for the heavy weapons.

Ursula doesn't need a master vox as much so it's PCS, Marshal, or Primaris. If she's going to babysit a couple of mortar HWS or bombast to dump free fields of fire on their targets regular infantry squads are probably best which makes Marshal v Primaris v save points and trynto hide out of LOS with the squad a difficult choice.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:
Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue.

I don't see how the unit can be affected twice by the same ability. I think they forbid it in the Commentary.

That's a durable unit ! My only concern is that the two characters are almost the price of another 20-man squad.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:
Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue.

I don't see how the unit can be affected twice by the same ability. I think they forbid it in the Commentary.

That's a durable unit ! My only concern is that the two characters are almost the price of another 20-man squad.

Commentary said core abilities don't stack. Same named aura's don't stack.

If it's not aura nor found in core abilities and rule doesn't prevent stacking.

tneva82 wrote:

Commentary said core abilities don't stack. Same named aura's don't stack.

If it's not aura nor found in core abilities and rule doesn't prevent stacking.

Considering the wide description offered for Core abilities (''most models, units, weapons or attacks either have one or more of them innately, or can gain them during the battle through other means such as Stratagems, Enhancements or attached Leaders''), I don't see why wargear abilities would not be Core abilities. A unit containing a medical-pack has ''innately'' the rule. (In a datasheet, there are indeed abilities preceded by the word ''core'' (like ''leader''), but clearly GW does not have only them in mind.) Anyway ! I don't want to resurrect too much DKoK models : I want their wounding bonus !

Yeah my reading of the medi-pack ability allows it to be used twice, and I can't find a commentary restriction on wargear abilities.

I understand that the unit costs as much as 40 korpsmen, but I think it more than doubles their effectiveness.4++, 5+++, plus the psychic attack and order you can use, makes the dkok so much better.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:

20x dkok, 6 specials, 2 medics (pending)
Marshal
Primaris Psyker

Gives you 5+, 4++, 5+++, for a very durable infantry blob. Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue. Decent damage output if it loses 12 models, and the medic is "up to", so you are never forced to lose your bonus with healing.

Just for funsies, though really expensive, attach a Hades drill, an ogryn bodyguard, and deep strike the whole thing on your opponents backfield.

M.

Problem with deepstrike or transports is that you don't get to do orders on the turn you come in, which is a massive flaw.

You could rapid ingress them, although you have to survive a turn. Maybe drop them into hiding.

With the psyker, a bodyguard to tank wounds, and a Krieg Commander that unit will need a lot of dedicated firepower to budge. Plus two medics bringing back 2d3 kriegs tells me surviving won't be an issue I think.

M.

 Trickstick wrote:
Yeah my reading of the medi-pack ability allows it to be used twice, and I can't find a commentary restriction on wargear abilities.

Okay, I think you guys are right. It's not really a rule stacking with itself, since you would bring back 2d3 models anyway with two separate 10-man squads.

But where is the option to include the medi-pack in the first ? It is missing from the DKoK datasheet.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
But where is the option to include the medi-pack in the first ? It is missing from the DKoK datasheet.

There isn't one. Dkok can't equip medipacks right now, going by raw. I would not be shocked for them to get 1 per 10 men though, as that is what is in the box (and we know how GW love box loadouts). I know a fair few people are playing it as 2 per 20 right now.

Reading trough the rules and costs for our FW-tanks, and I'm actually finding myself rather surprised that some of them look viable.

The Macharius BT which has always been inferior to two Leman Russes, or simply been a worse version of the Dorn, actually looks pretty solid at 310 pts with it's current rules doesn't it?

The regular Malcador for 250 pts also looks pretty good, but then I noticed that it's Battle Cannon is S9 which surely must be a typo?

The Valdor is pricey an not very killy for it's cost, but since it now boosts the same defensive profile as a Macharius it's one though nut to crack. Re-roll damage rolls helps its otherwise rather lackluster damage output.

The Malcador Infernus however, feels like a bizarre joke at 235 pts for whats essentially a pimped up Heavy Flamer. Ah well, guess you can't win every time...

Aww. The Cyclops now hits only 1 enemy unit when detonated and "only" for d3-d6 mortals. But on the other hand detonating it got a bit easier.
On the plus side it only has to end its move within 3'', so you should be able to use advance and charge moves and there might be some shananigans when disembarking from transports.

Still, I miss the unlikely, but looming thread of the old Demolition Charge blowing a big hole in a whole bunch of units.

And regarding the infernus: I just bought one lol. But yes, the profile of its Inferno gun looks hilariously weak for such a massive weapon.

Rapier are hilariously under costed at the same price as a HWS.

The cheaper FW earth shaker carriage seems to be balanced ok with the regular basilisk. It's about 64% of the cost for the same gun but 1 lower BS, less tough, and slow. It can receive regiment orders but it lacks the vehicle keyword to shoot if it gets locked in CC.

The beauty of basilisk is it can independently operate away from supporting units while the earth shaker and Medusa carriage need nearby officers. The internal balance seems good in this edition.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Aww. The Cyclops now hits only 1 enemy unit when detonated and "only" for d3-d6 mortals. But on the other hand detonating it got a bit easier.
On the plus side it only has to end its move within 3'', so you should be able to use advance and charge moves and there might be some shananigans when disembarking from transports.

Still, I miss the unlikely, but looming thread of the old Demolition Charge blowing a big hole in a whole bunch of units.

Yeah, my Cyclops will stay on the shelf this edition. Scout Sentinels are a better use of 50 points.

Hmm... if I see correctly they at least had the decency to drop the Cyclops to 25 points.
25 points for an average of 2 mortals if you can get it within 3''... I don't know. Maybe? There should be some matchups where that is enough to win back their points and the condition to bring it to explode at least sound a little bit more doable.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Hmm... if I see correctly they at least had the decency to drop the Cyclops to 25 points.
25 points for an average of 2 mortals if you can get it within 3''... I don't know. Maybe? There should be some matchups where that is enough to win back their points and the condition to bring it to explode at least sound a little bit more doable.

I'd take it to do secondaries honestly. For 25 points you could just hide it in another table quarter.

 MinscS2 wrote:
The Macharius BT which has always been inferior to two Leman Russes, or simply been a worse version of the Dorn, actually looks pretty solid at 310 pts with it's current rules doesn't it?

Looks terrible to me. "Lots of tank, weak firepower" just isn't a valid role in 40k. Having a bunch of durability has very little value if you don't also have enough offensive threat to force your opponent to shoot the tanky unit. Normally your priority target is glass cannons, as you can remove as much opposing firepower as possible given a certain amount of your own offense. Then once the glass cannons are gone you take out the normal units as they have the best remaining ratio of firepower spent to threat removed. Only once all the normal units are gone do you worry about trying to remove things that have relatively poor offense but require a ton of effort to remove. So the Macharius is going to sit there all game plinking away with its weak gun while your more important stuff gets removed, and maybe at the end of the game it finally gets some minor value from its durability if the game hasn't already been decided by then. A RDBT, on the other hand, is almost as durable but has way better firepower that allows it to contribute a lot more to winning the game.

The Valdor takes this to an absurd extreme. Yeah, it's got decent durability for the price but it has an absolute joke of a weapon and therefore its defensive stat line will rarely matter. The best way to handle an opposing Valdor is to just ignore it and be glad they spent 300 points on an ineffective paperweight.

Chat in this thread seems infrequent. Are you not happy with 10th, not able to play a game yet, or retooling your army because of the new meta? Or is there some other reason?

Or too busy playing to chat here?

For me, I'm "not able to play a game yet".

Before I play Guard in 10th, I want to paint up some units I always wanted to use. I have Ratlings to get done, a 2nd Hellhound, Deathstrike, etc.

Retooling my army....

 JB wrote:
Chat in this thread seems infrequent. Are you not happy with 10th, not able to play a game yet, or retooling your army because of the new meta? Or is there some other reason?

Too busy playing.

I still am sitting on four boxes of unbuilt Kasrkin though. Until they actually come out and 100% say "No, you're not getting a Lasgun Sergeant"? I ain't building gak.

Well, you might as well sell one of the 4 boxes, as you can only actually field 3 units.

 JB wrote:
Chat in this thread seems infrequent. Are you not happy with 10th, not able to play a game yet, or retooling your army because of the new meta? Or is there some other reason?

10th edition tanked in my group super-hard so no games for me . And that's super-sad because I enjoyed the four games I had and really liked the arty+assault army concept I put together for the edition.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 JB wrote:
Chat in this thread seems infrequent. Are you not happy with 10th, not able to play a game yet, or retooling your army because of the new meta? Or is there some other reason?

10th edition tanked in my group super-hard so no games for me . And that's super-sad because I enjoyed the four games I had and really liked the arty+assault army concept I put together for the edition.

Same here. I get it, 10th is a mess, but I like the core changes for the most part (I wish they'd have made different changes to psychic personally, but I don't like using psykers either way for fluff reasons). That said, I'm rather tired of 9th. Personally, I'd like to go back to 5th... I miss the chaos of templates and scatter dice ...if only Horus Heresy expanded to include xenos

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well, you might as well sell one of the 4 boxes, as you can only actually field 3 units.

For now. No guarantees that they won't be able to battleline in a special detachment or something down the road.

Also, there are different weapon options for different bodies...and Kill Team's a thing.

Those Kasrkin boxes are unicorns in this area. I still haven’t seen one at any of the three local stores ( including the GW).

I am retooling my army and this will be the biggest revamp since I started it in 3rd edition. GW, as usual, has made their newest items the most powerful but this time they have really increased the power disparity between old and new. Even some of my old models need tweaks. Commisars and officers need different weapons. Sergeants may need autoguns. Tanks need sponsons although I may transition to Rogal Dorns and park my fleet of Russes. And I may add a second Enginseer as well as Gaunt’s Ghosts because they look very good, model- and ruleswise,

 Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well, you might as well sell one of the 4 boxes, as you can only actually field 3 units.

For now. No guarantees that they won't be able to battleline in a special detachment or something down the road.

Also, there are different weapon options for different bodies...and Kill Team's a thing.

I was getting ready to dump about $10k worth of excess minis that I'll never be able to make full use of (who needs 180 grots when you can only field 60? 9 deffdredz when they are capped at 3? Etc), and this one comment has completely ruined my plans.

The points update may change a plan or two - there are lots of extra points for those artillery units now. Who would have thought that GW didn't just want us to pound people with artillery parks...?

[deleted]

I've played a few games now, here's my 2 cents:
- Battleshock was hyped up but is so inconsequential.
- DKOK are great, but you have to clarify with your TO how they work. The areas I play at claimed they should be a 1 in 10 option and stacked. Due to being a wargear ability and not having any restrictions like aura abilities and core abilities. So I could resurrect 2D3 every turn.
- FW Carriages, Basilisks, and Manticores are still our competitive picks for damage and utility. Our tanks suck, just far too overcosted and lack of tank orders really hurts their output.
- Scout Sentinels are awesome. Probably our best unit. Scout means you can throw them into the mid-field and force your opponent to deal with them. I was using reinforcements on them a lot.

Jarms48 wrote:
- DKOK are great, but you have to clarify with your TO how they work. The areas I play at claimed they should be a 1 in 10 option and stacked. Due to being a wargear ability and not having any restrictions like aura abilities and core abilities. So I could resurrect 2D3 every turn.

Just be aware that RAW they do not have the medic ability at all, and that the ability has been removed entirely from the app version of the rules. Krieg are already by far the best of the four infantry squads with a 5+++, the most special weapons, and easy access to +1 to hit. Adding even d3 respawning models per turn is stacking even more power on the clear winner, which is probably why GW decided to remove it.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

Jarms48 wrote:
The areas I play at claimed they should be a 1 in 10 option and stacked.

Just be aware that RAW they do not have the medic ability at all, and that the ability has been removed entirely from the app version of the rules. Krieg are already by far the best of the four infantry squads with a 5+++, the most special weapons, and easy access to +1 to hit. Adding even d3 respawning models per turn is stacking even more power on the clear winner, which is probably why GW decided to remove it.

I bolded my above line. It's up to GW to fix, but this is how my areas are playing it.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
...which is probably why GW decided to remove it.

I don't believe that GW decided anything. The app could just link displaying wargear rules to the ability to equip that wargear. As dkok have no option to take medipacks, the rule is just not shown.

Let us hope this is fixed in the late july errata.

 Trickstick wrote:

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
...which is probably why GW decided to remove it.

I don't believe that GW decided anything. The app could just link displaying wargear rules to the ability to equip that wargear. As dkok have no option to take medipacks, the rule is just not shown.

Let us hope this is fixed in the late july errata.

They did decide. The rule was originally in the app but then they removed it. So they were clearly aware of the issue and decided to remove the rule from the datasheet instead of adding the option to the wargear list.

And yes, hopefully it is fixed and the option is removed entirely. 65 point Krieg squads with respawn are blatantly overpowered and make all the other options redundant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jarms48 wrote:
I bolded my above line. It's up to GW to fix, but this is how my areas are playing it.

Fair. I suppose if you want to win and someone is offering a house rule to buff your best troops take advantage of it while it lasts.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
They did decide. The rule was originally in the app but then they removed it.

From everything I have heard, from several different sources, the medipack rule never appeared in the app.

Edit: I'm not bothered which way this ruling goes. I just want it resolved. I am painting up my infantry, and currently have only painted 9 man units, as I dont know if I need to convert a medic for each of them.

The Leman Russes are truly expensive now. LRD now is comparable to a Repulsor Executioner, and even the cheaper ones are still at 180 with a huge gap with most armours fielded by most factions. I'm not a very competitive player but I'd consider the autocannon ones, taking maybe one for the ability, and that novacannon ones with full flamer at the front charging blocking doing whatever annoying. If anyone want to shoot them instead of the Scout Sentinels then just be my guest, if not fine by me. Should points drop a bit for LRD, I'll change to the demolisher/avre ones.

I cannot believe the FOBs are still somewhat bad. The 25pdrs or whatever they are called are still S7, when most imperial autocannons are at S9 now. So my octuple pompom on a Hydra can fire 72inch away at S9 while my artillery 25pdr are 48inch S7?

Like, why? New toys are supposed to be strong right? GW? They look so good!

Manticores solid as usual, no surprise. Hydras are really really good against anything with Fly. I'll see if I can find myself some old FW ones with enclosed turret.

I played my first game of 10th Edition with only 1000 points versus Necrons using the Only War mission in the main rulebook.

It is too small a sample to have deep thoughts about Guard in 10th but I did make several observations.

My army was comprised of Lord Solar (Warlord), one commissar, one Cadian Command Squad, Gaunt's Ghosts, three 20 man Cadian Infantry Squads with 2 melta, 2 plasma, and 2 autoguns, a squadron of three Armored Sentinels with lascannons, and a Heavy Weapons Mortar squad.

1) The Reinforcements Strategem is nice but not that game breaking in a 1000 point game. I saved my CP for this stratagem, which was easy since I had Lord Solar. My opponent had a tough time deleting any of my units in the first two turns so I didn't get to bring a unit (Cadian Infantry Squad) back until Turn 3. I also brought another Cadian Infantry Squad back on Turn 4. Since they returned on my rear table edge, they did nothing to influence the final two turns of the game. They just don't move or shoot far enough to have a huge impact on anything except backfield objectives, which were non-existent in my game. It makes me think that Reinforcements after Turn 3 might work better on a Heavy Weapons Squad or Field Ordnance Battery since those weapons have a much longer threat range.

2) Lord Solar is almost an auto include. His three orders when paired with a command squad that has a master vox (24" range for issuing orders) are massive if you have non-Regiment units (vehicles, abhumans, etc.). The extra CP in each one of your command phases is also huge.

3) Gaunt's Ghosts are fantastic. Infiltration lets them set up almost anywhere on the table. If you regret their position, you can use Lord Solar to redeploy them or put them back into Reserve before the game begins. Or you can let them stay in position (to accomplish an action for a secondary) and then pop them back into reserve at the end of your opponent's turn (they can do this every single turn). They are difficult to shoot since the unit has Lone Operative, Stealth, and Tanith Camo Cloaks. The six model unit is only OC 1 per model but Gaunt can give orders so he can make them OC 2. They also have some nice ranged and melee weapons as well as a 5++ on Gaunt.

3) Heavy Weapon Squad overwatch is pretty good. I used my mortar squad a lot for overwatch for 1CP each turn once the enemy moved within 24". The squad was within 6" of a Cadian Infantry Squad so I was hitting on 4+. It is not game breaking but it hurts infantry simply through volume of fire since I was firing the mortars twice per turn (one in my shooting phase with all buffs/debuffs and once in overwatch during my opponent's movement phase with no buffs/debuffs (just the flat 4+ to hit). Creed might make this even better by allowing the overwatch stratagem to be used twice, but I am not sure the same unit can use her ability to use overwatch a second time in the same phase so it might take two heavy weapon squads to take advantage.

4) Sentinels are the new black. Scout or Armored sentinel squadrons are fantastic in 10th. They are price effective compared to other vehicles, they can receive orders, and they can benefit from the Reinforcements stratagem. Use full squadrons of three. Push scout sentinels into the midboard. Put armored sentinels where they can receive orders and shoot the enemy repeatedly. If they have to get into melee, it is best if the sentinels do not have blast weapons so you can shoot your engaged enemy during your shooting phase (-1 to hit) and then use your chainsaw during the Fight phase. They hold up pretty well in melee and can dish some damage to most opponents. You can also give them the Fix Bayonets order so they have a +1 WS during the Fight phase. They are the best unit for their points in our index.

Hey there,

after having skipped on 40k for the past years (played a game of 6th edition, and a few minutes of 9th edition [got to command one unit of poxwalkers in a test game) I thought it might be fun to do a test game, potentially solo, to get an idea of how it works now. Rules are free to download after all, so why not give it a try and write a rules review for 40k after a game or two with 1000 points lists.

2 hours later I'm writing an Imperial Gua- Astra Militarum army list, looked up a few things, and I was wondering if any of you got news on the situation with infantry squads.Or how you handle them. The rules say that you get special weapons for one in 10 models, a heavy weapons team of course counting as one model. Which of course makes the classic load-out of the infantry squad with one special weapon and one heavy weapon impossible. An odd take, given that I assume that this entry should cover said classic infantry squad. Do you just allow for one special weapon and one heavy weapon per 10 men (or 9, if you count the weapons team as one model) or do you think that was some sort of deliberate choice on the designers' part?

Thanks!

It will need clarification but RAW the squad could not take a special weapon if it takes the heavy weapon, a sergeant, and 7 troopers.

 JB wrote:
Since they returned on my rear table edge, they did nothing to influence the final two turns of the game.

Reinforcements go into strategic reserve. To quote page 43:

During the second battle round, Strategic Reserves units that arrive must be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge, but no model in those units can be set up within the enemy deployment zone.

Starting from the third battle round, Strategic Reserves units that arrive must be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge.

Plus you have to be outside of 9" of an enemy. So this gives you a lot more freedom for using reinforcements, able to threaten deep into the opponent's lines and backfield.

 Sigur wrote:
/.../

The app accepts 1 special weapon and one heavy weapon though (and a vox-caster, which is also limited to one per 10). It's a mess

 Forcemajeure wrote:

 Sigur wrote:
/.../

The app accepts 1 special weapon and one heavy weapon though (and a vox-caster, which is also limited to one per 10). It's a mess

That is funny. Well, thanks for the input on this little thing. I assume I'll just go with the "one special weapon, one heavy weapon" per squad. That seems to be the intention. I never got why they turned heavy weapon teams into counting as one model, but I'm sure it makes sense in terms of certain rules I haven't considered yet.

If we follow the app as the ultimate arbiter, DKK no longer get medi-packs. GW have some clarifications to do.

 Sigur wrote:
I never got why they turned heavy weapon teams into counting as one model

Because it's simpler than having two models plus a non-model object for the gun itself which need special coherency requirements and casualty removal rules to function. GW just screwed up and forgot to add "HWT counts as two models" in the wargear options list.

Heyhey, I have a question about the Datacard things again, specifically the Armoured Spearhead special rule on the Leman Russ: The wording confuses me a little. Does the rule mean that the Leman Russ re-rolls all 1s on the to-hit roll in general and gets to re-roll any misses on the to-hit roll when targetting an enemy unit which holds a mission objective marker?

cheers

 Sigur wrote:
Heyhey, I have a question about the Datacard things again, specifically the Armoured Spearhead special rule on the Leman Russ: The wording confuses me a little. Does the rule mean that the Leman Russ re-rolls all 1s on the to-hit roll in general and gets to re-roll any misses on the to-hit roll when targetting an enemy unit which holds a mission objective marker?

cheers

Yes, that is exactly what it says.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 Sigur wrote:
Heyhey, I have a question about the Datacard things again, specifically the Armoured Spearhead special rule on the Leman Russ: The wording confuses me a little. Does the rule mean that the Leman Russ re-rolls all 1s on the to-hit roll in general and gets to re-roll any misses on the to-hit roll when targetting an enemy unit which holds a mission objective marker?

cheers

Yes, that is exactly what it says.

Thanks, I wasn't sure. Fun fact: I think that Ork Lootas have exactly the same special rule for some reason. Well, there's a TINY difference, but still.

I tried my first 2000 point game of 10th edition on Sunday. I am using an interim list until my Rogal Dorns are ready. My opponent played Grey Knights with no vehicles. He just had termies, strike squads, paladins, and characters (Draigo, termie librarians, and some punchy guy in one of the strike squads).

My list was three maxed Cadian shock troop squads with autogun sergeants, plasma guns, and grenade launchers, two Cadian command squads, one full squadron of armored sentinels with lascannons, one full squadron of scout sentinels with missile launchers, two Manticores, Lord Solar, a commissar, two Enginseers, a LR Plasma Executioner, a LR Demolisher, Gaunt's Ghosts, and three Cyclops demolition vehicles.

The random deployment gave us Dawn of War and the terrain was mostly ruins. It was a a friendly game with a good friend.

I found out that the little Cyclops Demolition vehicles are still useful and their new rules have some advantages. They help to fill up the backfield to block strategic reserves coming in and they can advance and still detonate at the end of movement. Because the explosion only targets one unit, you can run them up to enemies that are close to your own troops without having to worry about killing friendly units. You do have to keep the 6 inch radius for Deadly Demise in mind though, so be careful about letting the enemy shoot the Cyclops near your troops. Fortunately, their tiny size helps them quite a bit to avoid being shot. The only sour note is that you can't command reroll their die roll when they explode so they will do nothing if you roll a "1" (just pop with a wet fart sound).

I am getting better at using the Reinforcements stratagem to put my destroyed regimental units into Strategic Reserve. Then I try to bring them back onto the table from any table edge starting in Turn 3. That seems to get them in position to contest objectives better than bringing them back in Turn 2. In this particular game, I brought back two Cadian shock troop squads and the scout sentinel squadron.

High toughness vehicles paired with Enginseers worked well. The Enginseers are better than they were in 9th. The 4++ save on a LR is fantastic. Healing them D3 wounds per turn is just icing on the cake.

The Demolisher still looks like the best of the LR tanks. I kitted both of my LRs with hull lascannons and sponson Multi-Meltas. I may switch the sponsons to something with longer range.

I kept forgetting to use the scout sentinel special ability to help my Manticores but they still did good work. It was a bit odd facing Grey Knights since they had such short range, low strength shooting that my Manticores could just fire direct at them most of the game.

Gaunt's Ghosts still look like one of the stars of the 10th edition index and now I worry that they will be nerfed when the Guard codex comes out. By then, GW will have sold enough of them that they won't care.

I am looking forward to more games and will continue using the Cyclops demolition vehicles as my earlier concerns seem unjustified by results so far in game.

 JB wrote:
I found out that the little Cyclops Demolition vehicles are still useful and their new rules have some advantages.

Yeah, I think some people are hating on it a bit much and forgetting that it's now a 25 point unit instead of a 75 point unit. 25 points is not a horrible price to pay for a 9" bubble of reserves blocking that might add a mortal wound or two once its blocking duties are done. And it has a very important advantage over other blocking units in that it doesn't allow the various fight phase extra movement shenanigans. As soon as an enemy unit completes a charge move against it the Cyclops is removed from the table and the charging unit (usually) doesn't get to move any further.

GW's Community Downloads section has a new errata sheet version 1.2.

At a glance, Krieg medic is one per squad not one per ten models.

"Change 2nd bullet to:
‘For every 10 models in this unit, 1 Death Korps Trooper’s lasgun can
be replaced with one of the following:
■ 1 lasgun and 1 vox-caster (that model’s lasgun cannot be replaced)
■ 1 plasma gun’
Add the following bullet:
‘■ 1 Death Korps Trooper equipped with a lasgun can be equipped with
1 Death Korps medi-pack (that model’s lasgun cannot be replaced)"

Infantry squad heavy weapon team "...counts as two models for the purposes of wargear options."

Kasrkin now have Regiment keyword.

Other units affected:

Aegis Defence Line - clarifies number of pieces and deployment

AM Infantry Armoury Card - Scions get BS 3+ for weapons with an asterisk by the BS (same as Tempestor).

AM Vehicle Armoury Card - Exterminator Autocannon is Rapid Fire 4, Twin-Linked

Ogryn Bodyguard - adds a Close Combat Weapon

Taurox Prime - Taurox Missile Launcher Frag is Strength 4

Ursala Creed - Her Tactical Genius ability only works on Regiment units now.

 JB wrote:
At a glance, Krieg medic is one per squad not one per ten models.

And not removed entirely as was RAW, which is unfortunate. Krieg are now by far the best of the four units and there's no real reason to ever take the others. 5+++, easy +1 to hit (and sometimes +1 to wound), the most special weapons, auto-pass morale once per game for 0 CP, and now respawning D3 models per turn. At the same 65 points as everyone else the choice is obvious.

Ursala Creed - Her Tactical Genius ability only works on Regiment units now.

RIP fake Creed, you were too good to last. Back in the box you go.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

And not removed entirely as was RAW, which is unfortunate. Krieg are now by far the best of the four units and there's no real reason to ever take the others. 5+++, easy +1 to hit (and sometimes +1 to wound), the most special weapons, auto-pass morale once per game for 0 CP, and now respawning D3 models per turn. At the same 65 points as everyone else the choice is obvious.

"Not removed entirely as was RAW" ...did anyone actually expect it would be removed?

DKOK can't be joined by Creed/Castellans, and sometimes you want some HWT's in your squads.
They might invalidate Shock Troopers, but regular Infantry Squads def. still have a place.

 MinscS2 wrote:
"Not removed entirely as was RAW" ...did anyone actually expect it would be removed?

I'd hoped it would be removed, that it was a case of GW realizing how much better Krieg are than the other three even without the respawn and doing at least something to bring them into line. But I guess the intent is that Krieg should be best at everything and having a 20-man blob with a 4++/5+++, the best firepower, and d3 respawns per turn is exactly what GW wanted.

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
"Not removed entirely as was RAW" ...did anyone actually expect it would be removed?

I'd hoped it would be removed, that it was a case of GW realizing how much better Krieg are than the other three even without the respawn and doing at least something to bring them into line. But I guess the intent is that Krieg should be best at everything and having a 20-man blob with a 4++/5+++, the best firepower, and d3 respawns per turn is exactly what GW wanted.

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

Plenty of the things you list here aren't inherent to the DKOK though, are they?

4++ I presume is from the Primaris Psyker and the 5+++ is from the Marshal, both of these can join regular Infantry.

Krieg aren't "best at everything". They're way better than Shock Troopers for a forward moving unit (but the fault here lies with the Shock Troopers being plain bad just as much the DKOK being good), but for a defensive unit, just chilling in the backfield I'd much rather have Infantry Squads with FRFSRF, Sustained and Lethal.

 MinscS2 wrote:
4++ I presume is from the Primaris Psyker and the 5+++ is from the Marshal, both of these can join regular Infantry.

Correct, 5+++ is from the auto-take marshal.

And as for backfield troops I'd rather have a Basilisk or Manticore. Backfield troops don't have line of sight to anything on typical tables so even if you use a token infantry squad to keep them as cheap as possible you certainly aren't going to waste buff upgrades on it. The role of infantry squads is to move up, take mid-field objectives, and respawn on your opponent's side of the table when they die. And Krieg are by far the best at that job.

I'm glad DKOK were fixed. Though I do also agree they're now the best option.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

Maybe I'm missing something (my gaming group has decided to stick with 9th for better or worse, so I haven't really been digging into 10th too deeply), but doesn't that still leave all the infantry and (critically) the sentinels as valid targets for her 0 CP strat ability?

DeadliestIdiot wrote:

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

Maybe I'm missing something (my gaming group has decided to stick with 9th for better or worse, so I haven't really been digging into 10th too deeply), but doesn't that still leave all the infantry and (critically) the sentinels as valid targets for her 0 CP strat ability?

You are correct but The Painting Owl may be focused on tournament level efficiency. The DKoK are great but the other three choices are still quite playable. Ursala isn’t as efficient as a DKoK marshal but still is great for her points.

I don’t play tournaments so I will stick with Cadians as long as Cadia still stands.

Dkok are the best at a lot of things, but the others have play in them.

Infantry squads with a mortar make good Creed fields of fire squads, using the indirect to drop the -1ap debuff on enemies within 48".

Catachan make nice scouting screens, with flamers to help absorb charging hordes.

Cadians with command squads are immune to a lot of debuffs, and castellans give access to fall back and shoot.

I agree that dkok are top dog out of the four choices, but saying that the others do not have any place at all would be a bit shortsighted.

Also, I don't get how Creed is not still really good? You save 2cp a turn on fields of fire, which you were probably using on a regiment unit anyway. Plus you have Creed reinforcements. If we leave aside the pages of rule arguments on it, some tournaments do allow it. 2 reinforcements a turn is very powerful. Not to mention that you get 2 orders for the price other units pay for 1.

 Trickstick wrote:
Infantry squads with a mortar make good Creed fields of fire squads, using the indirect to drop the -1ap debuff on enemies within 48".

A mortar HWS does an even better job here.

Catachan make nice scouting screens, with flamers to help absorb charging hordes.

Flamer overwatch is barely relevant and certainly not valuable enough to justify all the other drawbacks with Catachans. Outside of lore-focused Catachan armies that don't care about list strength the unit has no reason to exist.

Cadians with command squads are immune to a lot of debuffs, and castellans give access to fall back and shoot.

Any squad with a flag is immune to the only debuff that matters and fall back and shoot has minimal value on a unit that rarely wants to fall back and doesn't have anywhere near enough firepower to be worth adding a buff character to get it.

Also, I don't get how Creed is not still really good?

Because now you only have one stratagem worth using her buff on and it only gives you full value on the CP refund, not the multiple uses per phase half. Stacking titan overwatch or -1 D on Baneblades was very strong, now you're left with some of the lower-tier options and you're paying 55 points + bodyguards to get them.

And yes, I'm assuming that Reinforcements doesn't work since it doesn't work RAW and there's nothing suggesting that GW intended it to work. If GW changes the rules to make it work then Creed gains some value back but until then I don't count it.

I'm starting to write up my first competitive Guard List. From what I've been reading on this thread and other sites it's best to just spam marshals inside multiple (3-4) 20man dkok squads for the 5+++ with Basilisks and Manticores witj multiple Scout Sentinels. Am I on the right track?

Kind Regards

 Notevenow12 wrote:
I'm starting to write up my first competitive Guard List. From what I've been reading on this thread and other sites it's best to just spam marshals inside multiple (3-4) 20man dkok squads for the 5+++ with Basilisks and Manticores witj multiple Scout Sentinels. Am I on the right track?

Kind Regards

Yup. Pretty much just playing Krieg thematically.

Had it pointed out to me that Militarum Tempestus Command Squads don't acutally have the voice of command rule, so raw they can't issue orders...

 Notevenow12 wrote:
I'm starting to write up my first competitive Guard List. From what I've been reading on this thread and other sites it's best to just spam marshals inside multiple (3-4) 20man dkok squads for the 5+++ with Basilisks and Manticores witj multiple Scout Sentinels. Am I on the right track?

Kind Regards

Yep, pretty much. Though post artillery nerf there's been somewhat of a shift to tanks over artillery and mass artillery is far less of an auto-take.

Hey guys, I'm thinking of building up a small (1k) guard army, starting from scratch - what sort of list would you recommend for a newbie, taking into consideration ease of play and start-up costs since I have zero models?

Thank,
Coh

What do you like about the Guard? What infantry would you like to collect? It's such a large range. But you can't go wrong with a platoon command squad, 3 squads on infantry, a sentinel, and a leman russ as a core. That gets you halfway there.

From there I would add another platoon commander, three more squads, a basilisk, and a couple of officers to taste (tehpriest, castellan, primaris psyker, commissar, attaches in order is my recommendation).

That's a fairly well balanced list but you could still swap in some heavy weapon squads, rough riders, or more sentinels and drop some infantry.

Does anyone know where the rules for Chimera Autocannon turrets have ended up?

I suppose ultimately it doesn't really matter given that there are no upgrade costs in the game so the Autocannon turret would just be free ( ), but I can't see find it anywhere.

Also why is the Baneblade/Hellhammer so damned expensive?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Does anyone know where the rules for Chimera Autocannon turrets have ended up?

Gone. There's the "storm Chimera" in Legends, where you get an autocannon turret and no lasgun arrays (and GW didn't bother to add the extra armor rule that was originally what made up for the loss of the lasguns), but there is no more option to take just the autocannon or twin heavy bolter turrets.

Cool. Thanks for clarifying.

Anyway, like I said, ultimately it doesn't matter that much: the Autocannon isn't a unique weapon so it's profile can be found in many places and it would've been free anyway, so no reason not to keep taking them.

Warptide wrote:
What do you like about the Guard? What infantry would you like to collect? It's such a large range. But you can't go wrong with a platoon command squad, 3 squads on infantry, a sentinel, and a leman russ as a core. That gets you halfway there.

From there I would add another platoon commander, three more squads, a basilisk, and a couple of officers to taste (tehpriest, castellan, primaris psyker, commissar, attaches in order is my recommendation).

That's a fairly well balanced list but you could still swap in some heavy weapon squads, rough riders, or more sentinels and drop some infantry.

I like the idea of artillery with scouting units, sentinel walkers, etc. I don't have a particular infantry in mind, but either something reminiscent of WWII (to go with the artillery theme) or something rag-tag, sneakin' about behind enemy lines.

This is quite likely again a very stupid question:

Lets say a regimental Enginseer is attached to a unit of Servitors and the whole unit enters a Chimera. Do the Servitors profit from the +1 to hit from the Enginseer when they shoot out of the Chimera due to "firing deck"? And another +1 for the heavy weapons if the Chimera stood still?

Impulsebought a Baneblade last night ("this will get me free shipping!") and now I'm pondering on how to assemble it.
(I already own a Stormlord.)

What variant would you assemble if a Baneblade where to show up in your lap right now (and why)?

Leaning towards the Banesword right now. Solid gun, hilarious special rule (triggering Deadly Demise on stuff it kills on 3+) and should be easy to magnetize the endpart of the muzzle, turning it into a dual-purpose Banesword/Shadowsword (they are quite literally the exact same tank with the exception of that part on the muzzle.)

Octoblades are still a thing, right? It's extra work, but you could always do that and pick whichever variant tickles your fancy for a given list.

Much less work would be to pick one of the three base chassis types(i.e. Baneblade/Hellhammer, Banehammer/Stormlord, or Shadowsword/Banesword/Doomhammer/Stormsword) and magnetize around that chassis. In most cases its just a basic weapon swap.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
This is quite likely again a very stupid question:

Lets say a regimental Enginseer is attached to a unit of Servitors and the whole unit enters a Chimera. Do the Servitors profit from the +1 to hit from the Enginseer when they shoot out of the Chimera due to "firing deck"? And another +1 for the heavy weapons if the Chimera stood still?

No because in firimg deck weapons are vehicles. None of abilities of unit inside are used.

On flipside any buff 'hat applies to chimera apply to weapons.

Any tips on facing a Wraith-heavy Eldar list? First game of our crusade coming up and I have a feeling he'll be running a couple of Wraithlords, a unit or two of Wraithguard/blades, some Guardians and Rangers.

It'll only be around 1-1.2k and I'm running a thematic armoured list, 2-3 Russes, a Hellhound, 30 Cadians, 10 Kasrkin and an Inquisitor, Castellan and Commissar. I'm particularly worried about the Bright Lances I'm expecting him to field, any good tips for getting rid of Wraith units?

Played a 2000 point game last weekend and finally have some time to write down my thoughts.
I used some Legends units, the heavy mortar team and the quad mortar team to be precise. They were fun but their effect on the game can be replicated with other indirect fire units in our roster, and as they are legend units I wont really comment on them any further.

The mission was interesting: primary scoring was already possible round one (or we missed a rule) with a maximum of 10 points, and any unit with scout or infiltrate was therefore invaluable. Because of a twist, all objectives were set up in noman's land.
I went second. After deployment, one infantry squad with 2 autocannons, a platoon command squad and a primaris psycher was close enough to one objective, 2 scout sentinels to the other.
Terrain saved the sentinels.
Lesson 1: Primaris psycher is worth it
thanks to the 4+ invulnerable save (and the medic 6+ FNP), the infantry squad survived with the big guns remaining, and capable of scoring. But only having 1 CP really hampert my abilities to react. If the squad would have been killed, I wouldn't have enough CP to bring them back.
Lesson 2: taking Lord Solar Leontus basically required
he is just an Autotake with his three orders and extra CP. Everything else he brings to the table is just a bonus. Mordian Glory made a great video on how to use him and I believe joining him with a command squad is worth it. I have kitbashed him from an old project, I build some rough riders based on their 8th edition index rules but never got to complete them. He will be leading my forces next game.
Lesson 3: Chimeras are great but you don't need three
I played three infantry squads in a chimera each. The ability to order units from within the chimera by one officer was interesting, but the opportunity didn't come up during the game. The extra durability isn't that bad, but I wonder if a second infantry squad for basically the same price wouldn't be better in a lot of cases. But their firepower is surprisingly good, matching the output of the infantry squad. It redirects higher strength shots away from other targets, but they die really fast. Firing deck also allows the infantry squad inside to add some firepower, a neat little extra.
The mobility was great for the mission, but I believe 3 chimeras was one too many.
Lesson 4: more boots on the ground
or boys before toys if a heretical commander would ever copy tried and tested Ork strategies. Because a lot of my infantry (half, to be precise) was sitting in a transport, they couldn't provide the much more valuable duty of bubble wrapping and deep strike denial.
End of round 2, the Tyranids were in my deployment zone and eating my artillery. One less chimera and an extra infantry squad would have slowed them down enough. Maybe even two small squads is catachans for Frontline tarpitting and another backfield squad would have been better.
Lesson 5: Deathstrikes are fun
the Deathstrike has the unique ability to force the opponents movement like no other gun. It didn't fire in our game, but just sitting in it's corner and forcing my opponent to move away from certain points or straight up denying movement into certain regions on the board was absolutely invaluable. Maybe it's a bit to expensive for its output, but the potential is extremely scary for the opponent.
I will include one in any list for the time being.
Lesson 6: Tyranids hate the death mask
This enhancement is really great to ensure that an objective stays under imperial control. The Tyranids ability to force a battle shock Test has forced my to commit more resources onto an objective then necessary, and the death mask really mitigated the risk of just not controlling an objective. Cadian shock troops provide a similar result with their ability, but I wanted the heavy weapons the infantry squad provided. The result of the death mask was great, as a battle-shocked squad still controlled the objective, even though some Tyranid creatures had charged them (I believe some ravenors).

I lost the game because I got tied up in my deployment zone, unable to score primaries.
So, looking back, I believe that I should take more infantry. I overcommitted on small characters that didn't really do anything, and way to much artillery. Not every infantry squad needs an attached leader. If you believe you got enough infantry, get 2 extra squads.

Were you playing the leviathan mission pack? Because if you did think you did couple things wrong.

No objective primary can be scored turn 1 in any of the primary missions. Only primary you can score turn 1 is kill 1 and kill more in purge the foe.

Secondly no twist to remove objectives in deployment zones. One per each is mandatory(there's 2 secondaries that depend on those). Ways to alter objective positions:

a) primary mission that requires removing center of board one
b) primary mission that requires removing no man land ones EXCEPT the one in middle and you then create more to NML.
c) twist where you replace the middle one with 2 more.
d) twist that makes players put objectives but here specifically it requires 1(and only 1) in each deployment zone. Doesn't specify who puts where or when but if by the time 4th and 5th none has been placed in deployment zones then you have to put one per deployment zones.

Note you might not be able to score primaries from home those in deployment zone but due to secondaries like capture enemy outpost you need the objectives anyway. And leaving them unguarded could turn out costly if opponent has fast fliers or teleports/deep strikes.

Thank you for the clarification. My opponent had the chore of dealing with the mission set up, but good to know some details! We had a secondary come up that we could not score as there were no objectives left in our deployment zone, we just allowed drawing a new card.

Leaving the backfield unguarded will always get punished. Tyranids can deep strike a monster (Trygon?) outside of 3", instead of 9", and I couldn't kill it because it was out of LOS of my heavy weapons.

There's also no free draw unscorable. Drew kill monster/vehicle and opponent has neither? Tough.

You can pay 1cp once in game for new secondary and throw away any or all secondaries(scoring 1 cp if you do) but apart from that no way to change them.

tneva82 wrote:
There's also no free draw unscorable. Drew kill monster/vehicle and opponent has neither? Tough.

Which only matters in a hardcore competitive tournament context. Anywhere else virtually everyone is using the obvious house rule that you redraw objectives that are impossible to complete.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brickfix wrote:
]Lesson 1: Primaris psycher is worth it

Got to disagree here. The issue is the point cost, for the cost of a 4++ you can bring another infantry squad instead. Same durability increase, more firepower, and way more footprint and OC.

Lesson 3: Chimeras are great but you don't need three

Chimeras as transports are bad IMO. You can't get orders when you disembark, the firepower of the Chimera + squad is extremely underwhelming for the cost, and you aren't doing a very good job of scoring with them. I'd consider taking empty Chimeras (disembarking immediately at the start of the game) purely as gun platforms but even then I'm not sure it's worth having the passengers out of position.

Lesson 5: Deathstrikes are fun

Fun, but not effective. You do an average of 4.8 wounds per infantry target, 3.8 against anything T9 or better, and even less against anything with an invulnerable save or FNP. For the point cost that's just not good enough. A smart player will keep their units in place and eat the handful of wounds, at which point you've way overpaid for some minor damage and unless you have a bunch of other artillery you probably can't finish off the target soon enough to matter. It's a textbook seal clubbing weapon: great at improving your MoV against weaker players, very bad when you go up against someone who knows how to deal with it.

Regarding the Chimera: From a theoretical point of view I could see Chimeras with Heavy weapon squads being some kind of "Heavy weapons Squad +1"
=> 2 HWS cost 120 points
=> a HWS in a Chimera costs 130 for similar firepower (1 less heavy weapon, but + 1 heavy stubber, hunter killer and the lasgun array) but much better protection.

Edit: of course only relevant if one wanted to use HWS anyway

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Regarding the Chimera: From a theoretical point of view I could see Chimeras with Heavy weapon squads being some kind of "Heavy weapons Squad +1"
=> 2 HWS cost 120 points
=> a HWS in a Chimera costs 130 for similar firepower (1 less heavy weapon, but + 1 heavy stubber, hunter killer and the lasgun array) but much better protection.

Edit: of course only relevant if one wanted to use HWS anyway

Two less heavy weapons. The Chimera gets two heavy weapons from the fire points and its own two guns for a total of four, the two HWS get six heavy weapons. And the Chimera package is getting dangerously close to the point where you can buy a LRBT that comes with three heavy weapons and a main gun.

And that last part is key: HWS are bad except maybe with mortars if you need a cheap backfield objective camper and when they have mortars you don't need to worry about defense.

Ah, sorry. I don't know why I counted the combo as 5 heavy weapons.
Yeah, you are right.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
]Lesson 1: Primaris psycher is worth it

Got to disagree here. The issue is the point cost, for the cost of a 4++ you can bring another infantry squad instead. Same durability increase, more firepower, and way more footprint and OC.

This is correct for a 10 man squad - a 20 man squad with attached command squad is a different story.
Depending on the weapon shooting at the infantry squad, the psycher is worth more than the extra 10 bodies, in a different squad, with potentially no orders.

Lesson 5: Deathstrikes are fun

Fun, but not effective. You do an average of 4.8 wounds per infantry target, 3.8 against anything T9 or better, and even less against anything with an invulnerable save or FNP. For the point cost that's just not good enough. A smart player will keep their units in place and eat the handful of wounds, at which point you've way overpaid for some minor damage and unless you have a bunch of other artillery you probably can't finish off the target soon enough to matter. It's a textbook seal clubbing weapon: great at improving your MoV against weaker players, very bad when you go up against someone who knows how to deal with it.

How are you all equipping your sentinels? I can see good arguments for almost all the options, and while I'm pretty sure the answer is "to support deficiencies in the rest of your army" there's still a lot of nuance.
For example, I played a list of 6x catachans in heavy flamer chimeras and supported with lascannon sentinels of both flavours as my answer to armour and even though I had a lot of success I still found myself wondering if some plasma would have been helpful on a few of them.
In a guard force that has less infantry killing potential than 60 catachans and 6 flameras, heavy flamer scouts sound like they'd be laugh. but I also find myself wondering if enough autocannons to force those saves could be a threat in their own right.

Note that this is purely theoryhammer with a great bit of gut feeling:
I assume the main task of Scout Sentinels is to run to take objectives early on and drop their bonus ability to improve shooting of other units. As that has much more priority than positioning them optimal for shooting any kills they make would (in my eyes) purely be a cherry on the top. Therefore my go to would be Autocannon or maybe Missile launcher if the enemy has lots of little gribblies (where blast might matter) paired with monsters/vehicles (where the Krak Missile might do something) like for example Tyranids. Both being "take all comers" options with big enough range that they should have a target of opportunity.

For the Armored Sentinels I tend to Lascannon+Hunter Killer missile for one surprisingly heavy anti-tank punch for such a relatively cheap unit. And I am optimistic that one should usually be able to position them in a way to get a shot at something worthwhile. Meanwhile they can't be braketed and might resurrect, so an opponent has to dedicate a bit of firepower to remove them before they fire their Hunter Killer salvo. With rerolling wounds they should be able to even hurt (super)heavies

But as mentioned: theoryhammer, not based on actual experience.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Note that this is purely theoryhammer with a great bit of gut feeling:
I assume the main task of Scout Sentinels is to run to take objectives early on and drop their bonus ability to improve shooting of other units. As that has much more priority than positioning them optimal for shooting any kills they make would (in my eyes) purely be a cherry on the top. Therefore my go to would be Autocannon or maybe Missile launcher if the enemy has lots of little gribblies (where blast might matter) paired with monsters/vehicles (where the Krak Missile might do something) like for example Tyranids. Both being "take all comers" options with big enough range that they should have a target of opportunity.

This is how I have used scout sentinels. The autocannon is a great alrounder. The ability to resurrect them is great as well.

I'm thinking about catachans again. One 20 man squad with straken can move ahead together with the scout sentinels. I would like to try a second squad with an enginseer and supporting servitors. The second squad doesn't get to scout move, but adds a melee backup while strakens squad distracts the front line. If one of the sentinels goes down, the enginseer gets another buff. For 80 points, servitors and enginseer are more expensive, but their WS can be buffed to 3+ with the orders and mind lock ability. My understanding is that weapon skill can be improved my more than +1, while the role itself can only be modified to a maximum +1, is this correct?

Hey Guard enthusiasts, been kinda quiet here. Also lowkey gloomy lol. Anyways here is an all foot guard list that has been pretty successful in my local meta.

First the list then my thoughts

Creed
Straken

3x DKoK Marshals with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
1x Command Squad: Master Vox, Regimental Standard, Plasmagun, Medic, Warlord with Power Fist, Plasma Pistol and Grand Strategist
1x Command Squad: Master Vox, Regimental Standard, Plasmagun, Medic, Officer with Power Fist, and Plasma Pistol

2x Catachan Jungle Fighters: 20 models, 4x Flamers, 2x Vox
5x DKoK Infantry: 20 models, Sgts have Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon, 2x Melta, 2x Plasma, 2x Grenade Launcher, Medic
3x Infantry Squads: 20 Models, Sgts have Plasma pistols and power weapons, 2x Plasma, 2x Vox, 2x Lascannon

2x HWS with Mortars
2x Scions: Sgt with Power Fist and Plasma Pistol, 2x Hotshot Lasguns, 1x Melta, 1x Plasma
1x Scions: Sgt with Power Fist and Plasma Pistol, 5x Hotshot Lasguns, 2x Melta, 2x Plasma

To start, my meta is pretty average I guess. There are a couple of try hards running the current net lists of the month. Some long beards who are good because they've played the same army for 20 years lol, and then the average gamers or those, like me, who played in the past and are getting back into it. The try hards tend to run riot with their optimised net lists, but that's expected.

I last played in 6th ed. I still have my foot guard army I played in 5th, and there is some surprising similarities between 5th and 10th. The meta is once again about metal boxes, or big stompy monsters. Everyone seems to be in an arms race to have armor and/or enough AT to counter their opponents armor. So I decided that it's time to be counter meta once again.

This list takes horrible losses. Like 80% and that's with my recursion. I'm constantly picking up dead guardsmen and sending new units to take their place. I 100% win on attrition, holding objectives with my superior OC and just outlasting my opponent. As for how fast I play, well I've played horde lists for years, so Im fast enough that it wouldnt be an issue in a tournament. With movement trays its remarkably easy to move, and since my units are simple it doesn't take nearly as long as you'd think to shoot and melee with them.

Any one else have any luck with foot guard?

What are people's thoughts on the Exterminator? Decided to take one in my latest Crusade just for the hell of it, it's turned out to be absolutely lethal. Loaded up with Multi-Meltas and a Lascannon it's killed over twice its points in a number of games, the Ap bonus it gives makes it even sweeter.

Honestly, it seems to be capable of work on it's own while the +1 AP buff can be really strong. I wouldn't spam them, but splashing one into a list seems like a nice utility piece that also spits some firepower.

Anyone had a chance to play since the balance dataslate dropped? I can't imagine that the changes we got had any appreciable effect unless one was spamming Manticores or ran a fair amount of Scions/Mechanized Infantry, but I'm still curious.

Funnily enough, it would have made a change in my last game, this weekend I will see how it pans out ...

I know this sounds like a really dumb question, but I don't really grasp how mixed imperial armies work currently.

If I have an almost pure Guard list and want to sprinkle in, say, a retributor squad from the Adepta Sororitas and/or some Pteraxis from the Adeptus Mechanicus... How? Can I just bring the models and play them without their army rules, or do they sabotage the Guard part of the army by being there?

You simply can't. Only imperial agents and imperial knights have rules to be taken as allies.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-10th-silver-tide-pt-2/

earlier today i was reading a goonhammer competitive article and amongst all the normal and reasonable stuff in the article, this stood out to me

5th – Alexander Tepe – Astra Militarum: Double Tank Commanders, 18 Bullgryn, and a whole bunch of artillery.

my girlfriend plays IG so i'm familiar with the state of the army already, and i knew that bullgryns were one of the better things in the army, but it's really interesting to hear that playing so many is a competitively viable strategy

I can report on my last game. Very close game, ultimately lost with a 4pts difference.
My opponent played Tyranids and all is important monsters had 4++ saves, and he barely failed any of them.
My list contained Lord Solar in a death Korps Squad with platoon command, two 10 man infantry squads with mortar to cover my flanks, as well as another 10 man death Korps Squad.
Additionally, I took a Shadowsword, a Leman Russ Exterminator and two Demolishers, and two chimeras transporting more Death Korps infantry and two scout sentinels.
Our deployment was hammer and anvil, mission was very basic (max 10pts from objectives, 15 after the last round), and vox static.
So Leontus stayed back together with all infantry not in transports to control the corners and back field (we always play the random objectives, never fixed). Shadowsword provided extra cover. The other tanks and infantry carefully push forward.
Each round saw the death of one Leman Russ and a bit of infantry, but the Shadowsword was basically untouched in the end. Tyranids have trouble dealing witha lot of armor. I forgot to mention two squad of scions, they didn't really do anything besides clearing some chaff from the center objective in turn three.
The Shadowsword is awesome firepower, but either it completely annihilated what ever it looked at or didn't do anything because 4++ saves can really carry through the low number of shots. I didn't get to use the new order mechanics. My biggest issue is still forgetting half the abilities and losing out in the Boni. I need to prepare a check list or something ...