How do!

We’ve two new reveal shows coming up. 16/17 May is the new AoS Boxed Set. 18 May other stuff.





Saturday is looking good for me, as that’s three of the systems I play.

Ah yes the Saturday preview of I assume/hope:

- New 40k roadmap + a sister
- 30k preview of mechanicum
- necromunda secundus/new edition
- LI rocking a "lol I hope you like buying supplements"

Well, we know the next supplement book will be packing rules for the Termites. And I think we’ve seen another unit it’ll feature, but I can’t properly recall.

Nice, I'm on a road trip going to a Kings of War picnic & casual tourney on the 18th, the new Skaven will give complete strangers something to talk about over beer and ribs.

AOS - In front of live audiences they'll be proudly announcing the retirement of more models and factions. Truely a remarkable event for them, Texas and Nottingham, and for us as well as the rest of the world.

30K - Mechanicum.
Legions - New supplement that makes use of the Titan and Knight bundles that have yet to be released. Possibly all-aircraft battles...
40K - No idea, but Imperial Knights are painfully missing the character keyword for Armigers. Not something they can hold off on for much longer, but for now I'm guessing that it'll be Blood Angels or Eldar.
Necromunda - something to do with Gene-cults, Van-Saar and a bit of dungeon crawling? Necro-Quest would be ****ing huge news...

SamusDrake wrote:

40K - No idea, but Imperial Knights are painfully missing the character keyword for Armigers. Not something they can hold off on for much longer, but for now I'm guessing that it'll be Blood Angels or Eldar.

I strongly suspect it'll time in with the mechanicum knight drops and we'll get the cerastus, moirax and mechanicum variants offered as the releases for 40k knights of both flavours as their "mandatory minimum 1 model"

I approve of them specifying exactly which games will be covered in the announcement - had a mild hope for something for BB, though.

Hopefully we’ll finally get a peek at the Marine Assault Weapon sprue. That’s the last thing on the previous roadmap.

Dudeface wrote:

I strongly suspect it'll time in with the mechanicum knight drops and we'll get the cerastus, moirax and mechanicum variants offered as the releases for 40k knights of both flavours as their "mandatory minimum 1 model"

Plastic mechanicum knights would be friggin' cool. The moirax is definitely a kit I'd like to have, if part of the 40K codices for Knights.

SamusDrake wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

I strongly suspect it'll time in with the mechanicum knight drops and we'll get the cerastus, moirax and mechanicum variants offered as the releases for 40k knights of both flavours as their "mandatory minimum 1 model"

Plastic mechanicum knights would be friggin' cool. The moirax is definitely a kit I'd like to have, if part of the 40K codices for Knights.

I had really, really hoped to see the Moirax make an appearance with the 40k AdMech book. It would have been a nice little thing to see added.

Personal speculation for the reveals:

40k: GSC and Sisters Battleforces revealed. Tease for the "Redacted" book(99.99% sure it's Guard, with a DKoK army box)
Newcromunda: Reveal of whatever we got teased last. New campaign arc? New big box? Newcromunda Quest, set in the Genestealer infested hive?
No idea what to expect for Legions Imperialis.
30k: Announcement of a new campaign book, announcement of a Mechanicum Battlegroup, tease of some additional Solar Auxilia stuff.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, we know the next supplement book will be packing rules for the Termites. And I think we’ve seen another unit it’ll feature, but I can’t properly recall.

With it being on a preview stream I reckon LI will get something a bit more substantial than a supplement book & box(es) of tanks. They can show those things off by just resuming the Heresy Thursday articles.

More likely it's going to be a milestone release like a battle force box containing new infantry (like the HH MK3 set), or even Admech.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I had really, really hoped to see the Moirax make an appearance with the 40k AdMech book. It would have been a nice little thing to see added.

They certainly look good together, and I wouldn't object to Ad-Mech and Imperial Knights being placed in the same codex.

I mean, they could also throw an absolute curveball and announce a plastic Warhound.

Supposedly, it was going to be the Lord of War option for Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus.

I would sink an awful lot on a Necromunda version of warhammer Quest! Where is this rumour arising from?

 Kanluwen wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

I strongly suspect it'll time in with the mechanicum knight drops and we'll get the cerastus, moirax and mechanicum variants offered as the releases for 40k knights of both flavours as their "mandatory minimum 1 model"

Plastic mechanicum knights would be friggin' cool. The moirax is definitely a kit I'd like to have, if part of the 40K codices for Knights.

I had really, really hoped to see the Moirax make an appearance with the 40k AdMech book. It would have been a nice little thing to see added.

Personal speculation for the reveals:

40k: GSC and Sisters Battleforces revealed. Tease for the "Redacted" book(99.99% sure it's Guard, with a DKoK army box)
Newcromunda: Reveal of whatever we got teased last. New campaign arc? New big box? Newcromunda Quest, set in the Genestealer infested hive?
No idea what to expect for Legions Imperialis.
30k: Announcement of a new campaign book, announcement of a Mechanicum Battlegroup, tease of some additional Solar Auxilia stuff.

I think we're 99.999% sure it's Imperial Agents given the leaked pages from the printers we've seen. Guard are rumoured to be more towards the end of the year.
The big question will be whether Deathwatch and Grey Knights are being wrapped up into it or if the pages we saw just happen to be providing background on the chambers militant for the inquisitors in the book...

I reeeeeeeally doubt that it's Imperial Agents, given that we saw leaked pages. That feels more and more like Valrak & Co latching onto the fact that the slot says "REDACTED". They always seem to forget/ignore that GW uses that for a placeholder.


If we saw leaked codices? Different story. But what was leaked were the possible layouts for Imperial Agents. No page #'s, nothing that indicated it was a "finished" product.

 Flinty wrote:
I would sink an awful lot on a Necromunda version of warhammer Quest! Where is this rumour arising from?

Speculation at best, and certainly not a case of "I know this chap who's best mates with someone at GW". That said in the trailer it says "join the expedition", which is the term used for a quest in Blackstone Fortress, and apparently we're going underground in the ash-wastes where its crawling with genestealer cults( certainly a threat to all life on Necromunda ). Not up on the Necromunda lore, but apparently there's Van-saar models in the earlier trailer and I'm guessing that they're up for all that archeotech hunting as well.

BSF is also an 8th edition product from late 2018, its narrative long wrapped up, and after five years I'm guessing that GW will want to move on to a new 40K-related product. Questmunda would be a win-win situation for not only Necromunda and BSF fans, but also GW themselves as they can draw upon Necromunda's considerable range of models which don't see use in the other 40K games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tastyfish wrote:


I think we're 99.999% sure it's Imperial Agents given the leaked pages from the printers we've seen. Guard are rumoured to be more towards the end of the year.
The big question will be whether Deathwatch and Grey Knights are being wrapped up into it or if the pages we saw just happen to be providing background on the chambers militant for the inquisitors in the book...

If they keep adding factions then it would make sense to bundle the smaller ones together.

I can't see it being Necro-quest to be honest. A more developed Zone Mortalis ruleset using the Boarding Actions terrain maybe.

40k will the jump pack Canoness and the Genestealer Cult pysker with maybe a reveal of what the redacted codex is but not much from it.

First Primarch for Legions Imperialis maybe? The rumour was Perturabo.

Horus Heresy will be the Mechanicum I expect, and maybe another Knight.

Regarding the Agents leak, I assumed it was less "redacted" and more that we've seen something physical.

Two months shipping, month for the actual print run and another month or two back and forth for the test prints, final confirmation prints and go ahead from GW feels like that matches up with how Peachy has described the window for getting everything ready to "send off" to the printers as far as the studio guys would be concerned (specifically mini-painting and photography etc).

If we were seeing those test prints or the later confirmation ones in the leak in March, that'd line up with a final product being shipped back in time for something coming out late June-July.

Feels like it would kind of fit the third Summer release with Genestealers and Sisters coming out before the new AoS edition, and Imperial Agents then coming out after that just before the school holidays (which are generally quiet months).

A big guard release definitely feels more like a "return to 40K" in the release cycle, once summer is over and getting into the lead up til Christmas.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I reeeeeeeally doubt that it's Imperial Agents, given that we saw leaked pages. That feels more and more like Valrak & Co latching onto the fact that the slot says "REDACTED". They always seem to forget/ignore that GW uses that for a placeholder.


If we saw leaked codices? Different story. But what was leaked were the possible layouts for Imperial Agents. No page #'s, nothing that indicated it was a "finished" product.

Those were printed pages, from a commercial printing house. You can tell by the printers' marks around the edge of the pages. The pages are produced like that for printing staff to check the quality of the print before the pages are folded, gathered, trimmed and bound. So, in short, that was a finished codex, barring the very final stages of the printing and binding process.

 The Phazer wrote:


First Primarch for Legions Imperialis maybe? The rumour was Perturabo.

Given their size, they could probably do two sets of Primarchs - loyalist and traitor.

 Tastyfish wrote:
Regarding the Agents leak, I assumed it was less "redacted" and more that we've seen something physical.

As soon as that "REDACTED" showed up, people started insisting it was Inquisition or Agents. Looooooooooooong before the leaks.

Two months shipping, month for the actual print run and another month or two back and forth for the test prints, final confirmation prints and go ahead from GW feels like that matches up with how Peachy has described the window for getting everything ready to "send off" to the printers as far as the studio guys would be concerned (specifically mini-painting and photography etc).

If we were seeing those test prints or the later confirmation ones in the leak in March, that'd line up with a final product being shipped back in time for something coming out late June-July.

You're missing the important bit:
That's assuming that stuff is going out as soon as it comes in.

Which we know isn't the case, as some of their other painters have said "I painted X/Y/Z for the studio years ago, good to see it finally releasing!".

Feels like it would kind of fit the third Summer release with Genestealers and Sisters coming out before the new AoS edition, and Imperial Agents then coming out after that just before the school holidays (which are generally quiet months).

GSC & Sisters are unlikely to come out "before", but likely alongside of or immediately after. It's not unheard of if you go and look at the release schedule last year alongside of 10E.

Last year, they started AoS' "path to a new edition" the day after Leviathan dropped, with June 25th(a Sunday) announcing the first Dawnbringers book & bundles.

A big guard release definitely feels more like a "return to 40K" in the release cycle, once summer is over and getting into the lead up til Christmas.

Assuming the rumored June 22nd release date is true, we could easily see Guard army set in July, with the first AoS battletome in August.

Because this is an important thing to note:
I'm not saying a full Guard release that quickly. I'm saying an army set going up, then the actual release months later.

 xttz wrote:
With it being on a preview stream I reckon LI will get something a bit more substantial than a supplement book & box(es) of tanks. They can show those things off by just resuming the Heresy Thursday articles.

More likely it's going to be a milestone release like a battle force box containing new infantry (like the HH MK3 set), or even Admech.

That it will contain an expansion book should be self evident.

Mechanicum would be the most likely "next faction" but I'm not sure they're ready to pull that trigger yet. Termites and other boring vehicles would fit though...

 Kanluwen wrote:

You're missing the important bit:
That's assuming that stuff is going out as soon as it comes in.

Which we know isn't the case, as some of their other painters have said "I painted X/Y/Z for the studio years ago, good to see it finally releasing!".

You're confusing the production process (painting miniatures, taking photographs, writing and editing text, laying out pages) with the print process. Production might take place many months ahead of release, but the leaks showed printed pages, from a commercial printworks, of the kind which are about to be turned into finished, bound books. Printed product won't be sat on for very long once completed, because it's just taking up warehouse space and not recouping any of the print costs. None of that means the Imperial Agents will feature in any upcoming preview, of course (because who knows who decides what is previewed when and why), but what's shown in the leaks is consistent with a printed book which would be ready for release imminently.

Books/tokens are definitely going to be the last thing produced for a release as they produced third party and generally rely on everything else happening earlier - a bunch of 'delayed' releases like you mention are probably going to be due to missing the cut due to production delays or things just not being finished in time for the book deadline.

Find out soon enough I suppose, and a huge part will be whether this is also when a Primaris scale update happens for the 2-3 Grey Knight units.

Are we expecting a Krieg box? Rumour engines give us a flag and a minefield, but also ratlings and there's something jump scion/RT era jump pack guys floating out perhaps for Kill Team?

The Roadmap we have is specifically labelled a Codex Roadmap, and didn't include the Kroot but did include the later Tau release. That also makes me feel things are more towards a quick (May)/June/July/Aug set of books and limited figures rather than something major with a book.

Might even be Agents AND Guard. Or Blood Angels.

 Tastyfish wrote:
Books/tokens are definitely going to be the last thing produced for a release as they produced third party and generally rely on everything else happening earlier - a bunch of 'delayed' releases like you mention are probably going to be due to missing the cut due to production delays or things just not being finished in time for the book deadline.

Find out soon enough I suppose, and a huge part will be whether this is also when a Primaris scale update happens for the 2-3 Grey Knight units.

We'll certainly see what happens, but with Grey Knights anyone's guess.

Are we expecting a Krieg box? Rumour engines give us a flag and a minefield,

As a specific box? Maybe not. But more Krieg stuff? Definitely. There was art of Krieg Engineers(a unit notably missing from both Legends and the Imperial Armour Compendium, despite having the models still up for sale) in Octarius. Their transfer sheet was also pretty extensive and covered a good chunk of stuff not in the Death Korps of Krieg squad set.

but also ratlings

Ratlings were speculated from a series of Rumor Engines. Two of the three were for the Votann Kill-Team, and one is insisted by some to be a pie in a crate full of explosives.

and there's something jump scion/RT era jump pack guys floating out perhaps for Kill Team?

That's Valrak speculation, as far as I'm aware. He kept waffling about "SEASON OF FLYERS!11!"...and then promptly was made to look the fool.

The Roadmap we have is specifically labelled a Codex Roadmap, and didn't include the Kroot but did include the later Tau release.

Kroot went up for preorder in March. They announced them before that, but after the Tau codex was finalized for a spot.

Army sets go up in advance of the general army release.

That also makes me feel things are more towards a quick (May)/June/July/Aug set of books and limited figures rather than something major with a book.

Like I said earlier, there's a window built-in before the actual releases for the new edition will start. It's enough for a few battleforce+codex(with a figure locked in) sets and then an army set after the first battletomes.

Hopefully the 30k melee weapons will finally be shown. Ridiculous that they haven't been released two years into the Heresy 2.0

Looking forward to seeing the Sigmarine half of the launch box. As for the other reveal, Horus Heresy might be interesting if it's Mechanicus and I am curious what the Necromunda thing is going to be for it to get a teaser. That usually heralds something substantial.

 Dysartes wrote:
I approve of them specifying exactly which games will be covered in the announcement - had a mild hope for something for BB, though.

People who pay closer attention may be better able to say, but I got the impression that we've slowed down to a team release every six months instead of three as was the case for a long time. And we just got gnomes.

Feels way early for the next team that is not Khemri to be revealed.

I'm hoping before HH Mechanium that GW announces a few more Marine kits, especially to fill out the FA slot.

Krieg are going to be shown soon, if not this reveal then the next, as indicated by Infernalbrush upcoming tutorial.

And we’ve got a brace of teasers.



HEAD CRAB!



DOGGO!

Flying head looks like something from Necromunda.

That screams enslaver to me...

It does and all!

That gryph-hound looks ragged. And more like a Crow-wolf. I guess even the pets adapt to the Ruination chamber.

 zedmeister wrote:
That screams enslaver to me...

That was my first thought too. Here's hopin'.

This one could be connected to this rumour engine:



This looked like the same painting style and shadows as Tyranid spores but as they already got their big wave it was unlikely to be them again this edition but that enslaver would also fit this

GET HYPE!!!

So GSC psyker.

Mechanicum bot to the right behind.
Left looks dark mechy.

Looks like GSC staff will solve that RE

Castellax with new weapons?

Thanatar on the right. And I think maybe those Thallaxi?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, Ursarax.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thanatar on the right. And I think maybe those Thallaxi?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, Ursarax.

Unlikely to be two Mechanicum ones on here so left might so something Necromunda?

Mechanicum don't seem to have exposed hydraulics all that much.

Not long until we find out at least, but I stand by my claims

Central figure l reckon is for Necromunda. Malstrain Magus.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thanatar on the right. And I think maybe those Thallaxi?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, Ursarax.

Either one of those shapes could be the Arlatax. That doesn't have a model yet, and has power blades and a plasma cannon, which could match the silhouette on the right.

Arlatax would make more sense. That looks like something similar to a large jet pack.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not long until we find out at least, but I stand by my claims

Central figure l reckon is for Necromunda. Malstrain Magus.

It looks too put together for a Malstrain. They're supposed to be troglodytic.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not long until we find out at least, but I stand by my claims

Central figure l reckon is for Necromunda. Malstrain Magus.

It looks too put together for a Malstrain. They're supposed to be troglodytic.

Who'd've thought 4chan would finall see representation in miniature form...

So GSC psyker, Thanatar and... maybe an Orrus spyrer to include Necromunda?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not long until we find out at least, but I stand by my claims

Central figure l reckon is for Necromunda. Malstrain Magus.

It looks too put together for a Malstrain. They're supposed to be troglodytic.

Who'd've thought 4chan would finall see representation in miniature form...

There's a whole army for that.

The legs on the left look similar to the Dreadknight, so could be that rumored character version.

 Platuan4th wrote:
The legs on the left look similar to the Dreadknight, so could be that rumored character version.

It has a bit of baby carrier vibe but those exposed pistons don't fly for a frontline combat unit, that's why I'm thinking Necromunda for that one.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
The legs on the left look similar to the Dreadknight, so could be that rumored character version.

It has a bit of baby carrier vibe but those exposed pistons don't fly for a frontline combat unit, that's why I'm thinking Necromunda for that one.

Also seems to line up with recent rumour engines for the chipped paint on a claw and piston leg, so it's battered whatever it is

Been thinking about the preview silhouettes while building a Solar Auxilia Basilisk.

I think we're seeing 3 games.
Left is a reimagined version of a Spyrer Hunting Rig for Newcromunda, middle is a new GSC for 40k, right is a killbot for 30k.

I can see that, definitely. Spyrer Rigs becoming more exo-rig than Iron Man type suit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could be this is therefore a Malcador claw, with the web spinneret now an under slung web pistol type thing?

There seems to be shoulder mounts for the left one

25 minutes to go, probably closer to 30 once the initial waffle has been waffled.

Now is the time to visit the lav, then wash your hands and get a brew on.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
25 minutes to go, probably closer to 30 once the initial waffle has been waffled.

Now is the time to visit the lav, then wash your hands and get a brew on.

How strong do you have your tea?! You're leaving it stewing long enough there to be able to cut a slice of tea off to have with cake.

Weird, that there is no countdown or anything today on wh community website.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Weird, that there is no countdown or anything today on wh community website.

Of course not! The Big Deal was Thursday's reveal for AOS4.0

This is how last year's Not 40k Show happened too. It's being done as part of the "livestreaming" coverage of the Dallas GT.

Sisters and Genestealer combat patrols are no longer in the online shop.

Wonder if they will get two boxes each or if the new character will be in those boxes? Sisters is surprising as it previously was most of the launch box with starter set style sprues.

 Tastyfish wrote:
Sisters and Genestealer combat patrols are no longer in the online shop.

Wonder if they will get two boxes each or if the new character will be in those boxes? Sisters is surprising as it previously was most of the launch box with starter set style sprues.

I've said before and will say again:
It's a huge, hugely missed opportunity to not keep those "simplified sprues" available or to not do them for every single army.

Article's up in any regards.

I wonder if Mechanicum robot silhouette is in fact for LI instead normal HH.

Benefictus has one big brain!

New battleforce having an Exorcist instead of a Castigator is pretty trash, but the previewed stuff seemed solid.

They said they 'tweeked' acts of faith, which makes me VERY nervous.

There better be some bigger restrictions on what can be taken if they can now have up to half their army as Guard.

So Benedictus is a Zoanthrope version of GSC.

Mechanicum! Hook this too my VEINS! That Techpriest Dominus model is just gorgeous.

Frigging called it as Tech-Thralls being part of the intro box.

Oh no! Plastic mechanicus...I'm doomed!

Those Ad Mech for 30k are sick! Love the huge vehicle!

Tech-thralls are awesome!

Serious statement:
Them not taking the opportunity to add these, via an errata, to the AdMech in 40k would be the stupidest thing they could ever do.

Wow, those designers sounded beyond bored and disappointed. Which is wild considering how excited many of us are for the models.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Serious statement:
Them not taking the opportunity to add these, via an errata, to the AdMech in 40k would be the stupidest thing they could ever do.

They do not want crossovers with 40k.

I guess new iron warriors for 30k?

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Wow, those designers sounded beyond bored and disappointed. Which is wild considering how excited many of us are for the models.

To be fair, an interview is only as good as the interviewer.

The interviewer for these videos today isn't very good at that.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Serious statement:
Them not taking the opportunity to add these, via an errata, to the AdMech in 40k would be the stupidest thing they could ever do.

They do not want crossovers with 40k.

100% correct, but I agree with Kan that them separating their games this way is the stupidest thing they could do. Their insistence on separating product lines - a distinction for accounting, but not for their customers - is a huge weakness that GW needs to get the hell over as soon as possible.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Serious statement:
Them not taking the opportunity to add these, via an errata, to the AdMech in 40k would be the stupidest thing they could ever do.

They do not want crossovers with 40k.

This hasn't actually been stated, but rather inferred.

Just sayin', Tech-Thralls would be a great addition to the AdMech and finally let us get the "proper" Servitor Swarm going.

Plastic Thallax! Plastic Thanator! And Krios! Just beautiful.

Ah. It's very important that a Canoness can't take a hand flamer or an eviscerator... UNLESS... she flies.


EDIT: Also, why does flying Canoness have a different style of flamer barrel to the rest of the Sisters range..?

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Serious statement:
Them not taking the opportunity to add these, via an errata, to the AdMech in 40k would be the stupidest thing they could ever do.

They do not want crossovers with 40k.

100% correct, but I agree with Kan that them separating their games this way is the stupidest thing they could do. Their insistence on separating product lines - a distinction for accounting, but not for their customers - is a huge weakness that GW needs to get the hell over as soon as possible.

Yeah, I too think that it is very stupid but GW simply does not care.

Hive Secondus, let's go!!! I love those new heads and the Spyrer suits are gorgeous!

Necromunda wins I think so far for reveal awesome!

Oh feth yeah, some disgusting Genestealer mutants!

 Overread wrote:
Necromunda wins I think so far for reveal awesome!

I mean, this has been a better review from my perspective than any we've had in ages.

Mechanicum and Zombie mutant Stealers... I'm already pleased.

Mutated Stealers are sick!

Mutant Genestealers? But I already have too many Genestealers to field, why would I buy more? Because the models are cool of course!

Interesting take on Spyrers.

Would have liked scavvies rather than these mutated stealers. But they do look good

Canoness unhelmeted head (one with respirator) looks better IMO.

 Skywave wrote:
Mutant Genestealers? But I already have too many Genestealers to field, why would I buy more? Because the models are cool of course!

Depending on price and how they are sold I'd be tempted to want 1 squad of them to field alongside my Tyranids - and I bet GSC fans want them too for some visual flavour!


The Mechanicus in plastic look very neat, gives me yet more hope of seeing them in epicscale

Wow, so the Spyrers are both Orrus. I can't wait to see the other variants. I just hope they are all in plastic.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
maybe an Orrus spyrer

Ha!

Well, as I play Necromunda and Horus Heresy and GSC and Adeptus Mechanicus (and Mechanicum later) were my main armies for 40k (long before they got their codices), this preview is almost perfect for me. Not for my wallet though...

I've got to say I like every model they've shown. The Necro-stealers are awesome. My wife will be happy there is new sisters of battle. My hope is that with these new genestealer cultists, the new Votann Kill Team will be released around the same time.

Oh and of course some tasty Mechanicum which I will definitely be using for 40k. If I ever get round to playing and painting them of course..

50% guard allies Kan! 50%!

What a review! I was thinking to myself "dayum, I could totally mess with this" on every 28mil reveal box. I dont think this has ever happened to me before..

Mechanicum are to die for. Even the GSC battleforce has all the units I love about the army.

LI was the least bit interesting of the bunch. The new Campaign sounded introguing though

Also, perhaps to some of you the presentation lacked energy, but I for one wasn't feeling awkward for a second while watching this one. Zero manchild gushing and seeing the finished products in addition to the promo picts was great. Wish they would have upped production value a touch and made some closeup camera runs to the models on the table, that's how I'd improve on this format

EDIT: Missed the SoB box reveal. That one I can live without thx

Dudeface wrote:
50% guard allies Kan! 50%!

Like I said, there better be some genuinely meaningful restrictions now.

Yes sir, I like it!

Super happy with the Plasticification of the Mechanicum. Having the meat and bones in plastic has neatly brought it into Affordable Enough for me.

Necromunda is chef’s kiss.

Legions Imperialis, I finally get my Light Armour options. Again, happy with that.

40K I’m not fussed for. The two models are nice enough, but I’m not sure I’m gonna return to that game any time soon.

New GSC cultists or gangers are great.

i hope they let us take named guard characters in the new codex

anyway as far as i'm concerned, i won today. five detachments in the codex is more than i expected, the new character is new, the new necromunda stuff is great... huge fan of all of this. wanna get the new GSC CP and the new necromunda box. possibly in multiples for both

There isn't a chance that named guard characters will be in any flavour of Brood Brothers rules.

yeah but it would be really funny

 Gert wrote:
There isn't a chance that named guard characters will be in any flavour of Brood Brothers rules.

They're being a troll. Just ignore and move on.

 Olthannon wrote:
My wife will be happy there is new sisters of battle.

Remember: the flying Canoness isn't really new. It's just an option which GW took away which they're now reintroducing (with added weapon restrictions).

The plastic Mechanicum is really cool but I can't not be annoyed they still haven't shown the promised plastic marine melee weapons for Heresy.

Well I am bit confused as in are GSC getting upgrade sprue similar to Cadian one or is just there going to be some guides for making conversions.

Bah, the savings on that GSC combat patrol are probably going to be equal to the cost of those damn Acolytes that I don't need any more of!

Excellent reveals. The mutated genestealers definitely wasn't something I saw coming. Really tempted to get those, and perhaps later expand them into a small GSC cult 40K force with this weird theme.

And yeah, I really wish as well that the Mechnicum stuff would be usable in 40K, but given recent trends, that seems unlikely. Though I was already thinking what 40K models these can be converted into. Castellax can obviously become Kastellans, and the thralls are an excellent basis for servitors. Turning the Thallax into Kataphron might seem like a stretch, but I think it could work...

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well I am bit confused as in are GSC getting upgrade sprue similar to Cadian one or is just there going to be some guides for making conversions.

both. the upgrade sprue is for kill team

 Crimson wrote:
the thralls are an excellent basis for servitors.

You are right but I still hope for a proper Servitor kit for 40k.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well I am bit confused as in are GSC getting upgrade sprue similar to Cadian one or is just there going to be some guides for making conversions.

both. the upgrade sprue is for kill team

Oh I completely forgot that one!

The "hunchback with spikes" look is terrible for the fantasy undead stuff, and it's terrible for the necromunda genestealers, too.

Come on GW, you have 30 years of better ideas for mutations. These are just plain awful.

Love the plastic Mechanicum. Surprised it’s so quick after Solar Auxilia but very happy to see it.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Mutated Stealers are sick!

Well, yes.

Bob Lorgar wrote:
The "hunchback with spikes" look is terrible for the fantasy undead stuff, and it's terrible for the necromunda genestealers, too.

Come on GW, you have 30 years of better ideas for mutations. These are just plain awful.

But genstealers are hunched anyway!

Surely they don’t hamstring the sales potential of those gorgeous Mechanicum models by locking them to heresy only, do they?

Nothing hugely surprising for LI but I like the tanks revealed.

I really like the Cannoness model, and I’m tempted to try and get hold of the battle force for all the jump pack units on offer.

Hope the poor exorcist gets a bump in weapon strength though. Sisters really lack anti-armour.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
the thralls are an excellent basis for servitors.

You are right but I still hope for a proper Servitor kit for 40k.

They specifically cut Servitors out of AdMech.

That canoness power sword is gorgeous.

For this edition, they seem to really have a pattern of locking new models in Battleforces, no ? I seem to remember the previous edition having a bit more variation in this, with new models on their own, in small boxes (Lion + Bladeguard), in Boarding Patrols (Farsight) or "dual faction boxes" (GSC vs Custodes...).

CorwinB wrote:
For this edition, they seem to really have a pattern of locking new models in Battleforces, no ? I seem to remember the previous edition having a bit more variation in this, with new models on their own, in small boxes (Lion + Bladeguard), in Boarding Patrols (Farsight) or "dual faction boxes" (GSC vs Custodes...).

For single model releases with new codices. Otherwise it is army box with new models plus book and cards, then seperate additional models with standalone codex release for larger rage updates.

So for 40K the last 5 codex releases has produced 6 single character releases. It would be nice to see some actual new kits for units.

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
So for 40K the last 5 codex releases has produced 6 single character releases. It would be nice to see some actual new kits for units.

You need to wait till it is the time for Blood Angels and Space Wolves!

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
So for 40K the last 5 codex releases has produced 6 single character releases. It would be nice to see some actual new kits for units.

Erm...

Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Ad Mech*
Codex: Necrons*
Codex Supplement: Dark Angels
Codex: Tau
Codex: Orks*
Codex: Adeptus Custodes*
Codex: Chaos Space Marines**

They're the books either out or on pre-release at the minute. We're at an almost 50/50 split between "books with at least one unit" and "books with one or two characters" (indicated from memory with asterisks), and Tyranids and Tau both got meaty releases. Tau might be out of position in the other, but Orks and AC don't show on the Wikipedia page for some reason - which month did they come out in?

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
So for 40K the last 5 codex releases has produced 6 single character releases. It would be nice to see some actual new kits for units.

Kroot, HH, and new AoS are probably taking up the production slots.

Plus aren't there rumours of a fairly good sized Eldar update with a bunch of characters and the last few Aspect troop updates.

 Overread wrote:
Plus aren't there rumours of a fairly good sized Eldar update with a bunch of characters and the last few Aspect troop updates.

Yeah: Eldar, Blood Angels, Kreig, and possibly another votann wave too. Plus inevitably EC.

Yep though it almost sounds like EC will either be pulling last position this edition or coming next edition.


Honestly the only line-up thing that seems missing ot me is a new warrior kit for Tyranids with wings on the sprue. Winged Prime wants some winged friends!

dienekes96 wrote:
That canoness power sword is gorgeous.

It's nice, but that fleur-de-Lys-studded power maul is a true thing of beauty. I wonder if the hand flamer is her only ranged option, since that's the one weapon a foot Canoness CANNOT take...

Nothing tickled my fancy, although Necromunda nearly had me there for a moment...

 Dysartes wrote:

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
So for 40K the last 5 codex releases has produced 6 single character releases. It would be nice to see some actual new kits for units.

Erm...

Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Ad Mech*
Codex: Necrons*
Codex Supplement: Dark Angels
Codex: Tau
Codex: Orks*
Codex: Adeptus Custodes*
Codex: Chaos Space Marines**

They're the books either out or on pre-release at the minute. We're at an almost 50/50 split between "books with at least one unit" and "books with one or two characters" (indicated from memory with asterisks), and Tyranids and Tau both got meaty releases. Tau might be out of position in the other, but Orks and AC don't show on the Wikipedia page for some reason - which month did they come out in?

It's also worth mentioning that Drukhari got Mandrakes and Eldar got Scorpions via KT and their dexes haven't even dropped yet.

there's also the night lords, which may or may not end up getting their own datasheet at some point (since gw is trying to make sure each kit has its own datasheet)

Scorpions and Mandrakes also reinforce that GW isn’t limiting releases to Codex Window anymore.

Sure that’s when you’re most likely to get a substantial addition, but far from the only time now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Scorpions and Mandrakes also reinforce that GW isn’t limiting releases to Codex Window anymore.

So long as they're tied to Kill Team, to 'count as' a release for that system. So we're not going to see any vehicles or independent characters flying solo away from a codex release.

Huh, 90% of that preview does nothing for me. Glad I didn't waste my time on the stream.

I like the mutant cannibal hillbilly Genestealers, but I don't think I have any use for mutant cannibal hillbilly Genestealers.

 Dysartes wrote:

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
So for 40K the last 5 codex releases has produced 6 single character releases. It would be nice to see some actual new kits for units.

Erm...

Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Ad Mech*
Codex: Necrons*
Codex Supplement: Dark Angels
Codex: Tau
Codex: Orks*
Codex: Adeptus Custodes*
Codex: Chaos Space Marines**

They're the books either out or on pre-release at the minute. We're at an almost 50/50 split between "books with at least one unit" and "books with one or two characters" (indicated from memory with asterisks), and Tyranids and Tau both got meaty releases. Tau might be out of position in the other, but Orks and AC don't show on the Wikipedia page for some reason - which month did they come out in?

Once you include Sisters and GSC then you get 5 on the bounce with very little added to them.
Having such short editions is the problem, it’s creating a constant churning of booksand the model designers can’t keep up.

On the accompanying model release, I’m not entirely sure, but is this not the inverse of who got the lion’s share of model releases in 9th?

zanzibarthefirst wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
So for 40K the last 5 codex releases has produced 6 single character releases. It would be nice to see some actual new kits for units.

Erm...

Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Ad Mech*
Codex: Necrons*
Codex Supplement: Dark Angels
Codex: Tau
Codex: Orks*
Codex: Adeptus Custodes*
Codex: Chaos Space Marines**

They're the books either out or on pre-release at the minute. We're at an almost 50/50 split between "books with at least one unit" and "books with one or two characters" (indicated from memory with asterisks), and Tyranids and Tau both got meaty releases. Tau might be out of position in the other, but Orks and AC don't show on the Wikipedia page for some reason - which month did they come out in?

Once you include Sisters and GSC then you get 5 on the bounce with very little added to them.
Having such short editions is the problem, it’s creating a constant churning of booksand the model designers can’t keep up.

Not really true, it's not like longer editions meant all armies got something in the past.

Another throughly underwhelming snoozer of a ‘reveal’. I can’t be disappointed, though, since my expectations for these ‘events’ are already so low…

Dudeface wrote:
Not really true, it's not like longer editions meant all armies got something in the past.

*Dark Eldar and Sisters wail at the memory of the Dark Times*

Whilst there were occasions in the early days where some books didn’t get updated like the aforementioned Dark Eldar and Sisters but a codex release was a much bigger occasion than it is now.

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
Whilst there were occasions in the early days where some books didn’t get updated like the aforementioned Dark Eldar and Sisters but a codex release was a much bigger occasion than it is now.

Yes that did happen. There was even a time where armies got nothing until a codex update and then BOOM you got everything in that and then nothing at all between those updates. And you wouldn't always get a big update with a codex. That was partly GW's approach to dealing with the 3rd party market (way before 3D printing was even a thing in the market). These days GW likes to drip feed more models out through expansions, side games and single hero releases so things have improved a fair bit on that front. I feel like BIG releases area touch rarer now, but we are getting more models than ever from GW; just spread out more and it certainly feels like GW aren't leaving armies alone entirely. Though there are always a feel that feel it worse. eg Tyranids went on a fairly long gap without anything much; though on the flipside they had a good number of fairly modern to modern plastics in their range then. So it didn't feel as bad as Eldar or some AoS armies running around with metals and finecast and first generation plastics

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the accompanying model release, I’m not entirely sure, but is this not the inverse of who got the lion’s share of model releases in 9th?

Genestealer Cults also got a single model in 9th.

Having said that they did get substantive releases in 7th and 8th.

Funny enough, I looked into the game around 4th or 5th at one point but wanted to play Black Templars and someone suggested I wait until they got their codex updated. Eventually turned into a running gag.

Dark Eldar had 12 years between their codexes from 3rd to 5th. Everyone got a codex in 3rd, but 4th and 5th editions were pretty bad for not giving codexes. The pace picked up again in 6th and 7th.

I'm not bothered if there is no model release to be honest. If a range is complete, and looks good, what's the need for more models? I understand if core parts of a range are not covered, but that's not the case any more. Every faction is fully covered these days.

 Da Boss wrote:
Dark Eldar had 12 years between their codexes from 3rd to 5th. Everyone got a codex in 3rd, but 4th and 5th editions were pretty bad for not giving codexes. The pace picked up again in 6th and 7th.

I'm not bothered if there is no model release to be honest. If a range is complete, and looks good, what's the need for more models? I understand if core parts of a range are not covered, but that's not the case any more. Every faction is fully covered these days.

Wasn't it 4th or 5th that also started a trend of adding models in the rules that never got models?

I agree I think one reason Tyranids were doing ok before 10th edition is that they had a pretty darn good roster of models. Even things like Termagaunts were decent quality (just annoying for their split heads mostly). It was strange to see things like the bio and pyrovores go so long without an updated kit though.

However right now Tyranids are sitting there with an army in a very complete, very well rounded style. They are not in the need but the want stage of models, with the possible exception of winged warriors because of GW's choice on releasing a winged prime.

 Overread wrote:


Wasn't it 4th or 5th that also started a trend of adding models in the rules that never got models?

That was always a thing until Chapterhouse. There were plenty of units without official models in 2nd and 3rd.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Overread wrote:


Wasn't it 4th or 5th that also started a trend of adding models in the rules that never got models?

That was always a thing until Chapterhouse. There were plenty of units without official models in 2nd and 3rd.

Yeah I just get a feeling it got a lot worse.
I think also it shifted a bit from being weapons options on models that did exist not being enough t ocover all the options in the codex; to whole models and units that just didn't appear as models ever.

But yeah one of the good things we got from Chapterhouse from GW was the end of them putting stuff in the codex and then never making the model. Granted "no models no rules" has been taken a little extreme in the last edition or two I'd say (eg cutting out options from Tyranid models that you easily got as parts on other existing kits - RIP oh Dakka-Tyrant with wings); but in general I'm behind the idea of at least making sure we can build things the codex lets us take

 Overread wrote:
to whole models and units that just didn't appear as models ever.

2nd Ed had no Chaos Lord models, 3rd and onward had no Possessed until the jazz hands kit that was nearly a decade after their introduction into the game(bar a single army box locked Champion). Just examples of whole entries with no models. Most named Characters had no models until they started cutting down the amount in the Codexes. As I said, this was fairly standard until Chapterhouse.

 Overread wrote:
Yeah I just get a feeling it got a lot worse.
I think also it shifted a bit from being weapons options on models that did exist not being enough t ocover all the options in the codex; to whole models and units that just didn't appear as models ever.

I genuinely can't think of any units in 4th or 5th that showed up in Codices and didn't have a unit. Maybe some of the special characters?

2nd had tons of missing stuff. Exodites, cyborks, Master of the Ravenwing, Sapphon, Veteran Sgt Cleuten, Huron Blackheart, the Daemon World army, the cultist army... There was a lot they planned that never materialized.

 Overread wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Overread wrote:


Wasn't it 4th or 5th that also started a trend of adding models in the rules that never got models?

That was always a thing until Chapterhouse. There were plenty of units without official models in 2nd and 3rd.

Yeah I just get a feeling it got a lot worse.
I think also it shifted a bit from being weapons options on models that did exist not being enough t ocover all the options in the codex; to whole models and units that just didn't appear as models ever.

But yeah one of the good things we got from Chapterhouse from GW was the end of them putting stuff in the codex and then never making the model. Granted "no models no rules" has been taken a little extreme in the last edition or two I'd say (eg cutting out options from Tyranid models that you easily got as parts on other existing kits - RIP oh Dakka-Tyrant with wings); but in general I'm behind the idea of at least making sure we can build things the codex lets us take

I really enjoy kitbashing at an individual model level. The problem has always been the need to source 10 or more weapons to equip a unit. It's one of those things that's really fun in theory, but that gets rather miserable when practicality gets applied to it via points and rules.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Yeah I just get a feeling it got a lot worse.
I think also it shifted a bit from being weapons options on models that did exist not being enough t ocover all the options in the codex; to whole models and units that just didn't appear as models ever.

I genuinely can't think of any units in 4th or 5th that showed up in Codices and didn't have a unit. Maybe some of the special characters?

2nd had tons of missing stuff. Exodites, cyborks, Master of the Ravenwing, Sapphon, Veteran Sgt Cleuten, Huron Blackheart, the Daemon World army, the cultist army... There was a lot they planned that never materialized.

I mean, to be fair, the Daemon World army was always meant as "play your Fantasy army in 40K".

 Platuan4th wrote:
I mean, to be fair, the Daemon World army was always meant as "play your Fantasy army in 40K".

Touche. I was thinking more of the Daemon Princes they included.

 Overread wrote:

But yeah one of the good things we got from Chapterhouse from GW was the end of them putting stuff in the codex and then never making the model. Granted "no models no rules" has been taken a little extreme in the last edition or two I'd say (eg cutting out options from Tyranid models that you easily got as parts on other existing kits - RIP oh Dakka-Tyrant with wings); but in general I'm behind the idea of at least making sure we can build things the codex lets us take

I'm having a hard time understanding how having extremely limited weapon options in both rules AND models is superior to having a lot of rules options and some missing model parts.

 Overread wrote:
RIP oh Dakka-Tyrant with wings

As someone who owns 3 sets of the FW Devourers, this statement hits too close.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Yeah I just get a feeling it got a lot worse.
I think also it shifted a bit from being weapons options on models that did exist not being enough t ocover all the options in the codex; to whole models and units that just didn't appear as models ever.

I genuinely can't think of any units in 4th or 5th that showed up in Codices and didn't have a unit.

Just off the top of my head, with Tyranids alone (and sorry for spelling and terminology) there was the Parasite of Mortrax , bio drop pod things that didn't come until years later, and that monster that made baby termigaunts.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Yeah I just get a feeling it got a lot worse.
I think also it shifted a bit from being weapons options on models that did exist not being enough t ocover all the options in the codex; to whole models and units that just didn't appear as models ever.

I genuinely can't think of any units in 4th or 5th that showed up in Codices and didn't have a unit.

Just off the top of my head, with Tyranids alone (and sorry for spelling and terminology) there was the Parasite of Mortrax , bio drop pod things that didn't come until years later, and that monster that made baby termigaunts.

The Tervigon was released in the same edition as the codex. It didn't have a model for maybe 2 years max.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

But yeah one of the good things we got from Chapterhouse from GW was the end of them putting stuff in the codex and then never making the model. Granted "no models no rules" has been taken a little extreme in the last edition or two I'd say (eg cutting out options from Tyranid models that you easily got as parts on other existing kits - RIP oh Dakka-Tyrant with wings); but in general I'm behind the idea of at least making sure we can build things the codex lets us take

I'm having a hard time understanding how having extremely limited weapon options in both rules AND models is superior to having a lot of rules options and some missing model parts.

I prefer having models and rules that line up with each other, thus meaning that players can design their army and field their army with zero converting and/or zero "counts as".
I think conversion should always be an optional part of the hobby, not a requirement to take part.


As I said I think there are some cases where parts are within the army where GW have been a bit too heavy handed. I also HATE the current direction of weapons having zero point costs and of gross simplification of close combat weaponary (Tyranid Warriors have no variety at all now; meanwhile in AoS we've seen a similar move to make weapon types meaningless in close combat - many having almost identical stats now). It's not all good and GW are making, what I feel, are mistakes in trying to not just line their models and rules up, but also make things a LOT simpler.

Part of me wonders if the AoS move is part of a long term campaign to move toward more pre-posed single pose models with zero weapon options; which gives GW more reason to create different models with different weapon types and stats on them. Ergo instead of 1 model infantry with 3 weapon types to choose from; have 3 different model types in the first place.

Reductions in options seems like half to match the produced kits and cut out third party conversions, and half to simplify things to balance for the tournament esports crowd.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Overread wrote:
RIP oh Dakka-Tyrant with wings

As someone who owns 3 sets of the FW Devourers, this statement hits too close.

I got a set of Hydracasts devourers and would have bought more but never got to building more models with wings.

 Overread wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

But yeah one of the good things we got from Chapterhouse from GW was the end of them putting stuff in the codex and then never making the model. Granted "no models no rules" has been taken a little extreme in the last edition or two I'd say (eg cutting out options from Tyranid models that you easily got as parts on other existing kits - RIP oh Dakka-Tyrant with wings); but in general I'm behind the idea of at least making sure we can build things the codex lets us take

I'm having a hard time understanding how having extremely limited weapon options in both rules AND models is superior to having a lot of rules options and some missing model parts.

I prefer having models and rules that line up with each other, thus meaning that players can design their army and field their army with zero converting and/or zero "counts as".
I think conversion should always be an optional part of the hobby, not a requirement to take part.


As I said I think there are some cases where parts are within the army where GW have been a bit too heavy handed. I also HATE the current direction of weapons having zero point costs and of gross simplification of close combat weaponary (Tyranid Warriors have no variety at all now; meanwhile in AoS we've seen a similar move to make weapon types meaningless in close combat - many having almost identical stats.

I too prefer if every weapon option were to be included in every box. In GW designers' eyes though this is often hard and sometimes downright impossible. If they know they can only sell Model X for a certain amount of money they know what size box/sprue to limit it to. Cramming all the options onto a character sprue is challenging, or not even possible.

It's a reason I think the best option is to design all models in an army to have similar construction, and if there is a lack of space on a sprue, leave off the most common weapon (army wide) but leave the rules intact. For example, I severely doubt there is a Space Marine player out there that doesn't have at least a spare bolt pistol or bolter in their bits box. Therefore having a hypothetical Chaplain model that has no bolt pistol in the box, but has rules for it is barely considered a barrier to entry. Heck, I barely consider it a conversion.

I believe this was their intent with the Dark Eldar Archon. Then they changed philosophy midstream and we ended up with a leader with virtually no options.In that specific case "no model, no rules" was the worst decision possible and virtually unforgivable.

And even then, having rules for a,b,c,d,e while only having options for a,b, and c is still better than limiting the rules to a,b, and c. Don't want to convert d or e? There are still the other 3. You're not stopped from playing, you're just self limiting to what is in the box.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
the Daemon World army, the cultist army... There was a lot they planned that never materialized.

There was never a plan for those two armies. Andy C. praised himself and Jervis for those two additional army lists in Codex Chaos 2nd edition to please older gamers, but both were only optional and you had to ask if you wanted to use them. They even told you the cult was pretty weak and the Daemon World army too strong. They could have at least make the Chaos Cult offical, like the Genestealer Cult in the Tyranid codex.

 Overread wrote:

Part of me wonders if the AoS move is part of a long term campaign to move toward more pre-posed single pose models with zero weapon options; which gives GW more reason to create different models with different weapon types and stats on them. Ergo instead of 1 model infantry with 3 weapon types to choose from; have 3 different model types in the first place.

I think its far more of a technical decision than anything. As much as GW is the big fish, they're not without competition and a big part of both AoS and Primaris have been about keeping their models top of the line as resin casting allowed the competition to cast larger, more detailed models without a lot of the plane restrictions you see with HIPs. GW has managed to design bigger models with more dynamic poses with some really impressive layering techniques, but its clearly come at the cost of the universal connection points that made a lot of swapping possible. I think it has far less to do with any sort of game design concerns and everything with keeping their products competitive in the age of digital sculpting.

and to be fair, the models that GW has been putting out in recent years have been damn good. for what is lost in terms of customizability is made up for, at least as far as i'm concerned, in the quality of the models themselves

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
and to be fair, the models that GW has been putting out in recent years have been damn good. for what is lost in terms of customizability is made up for, at least as far as i'm concerned, in the quality of the models themselves

The problem is when you need more models than just one box provide. And if its a model that is supposed to be mutated and twisted by the warp, its kind of funny to have an identical twin running beside it.

I was also frustrated by a unit like havocs that look great and have lots of options, but you cant use all the lascannons and missiles in one unit, because they use the same 2 bodies (forcing you to mix anti infantry and anti tank even if you have the options in the box).

As someone who had to scratch build a defiler in I think it was 4th edition where it was in the codex with no model, I actually do like that all the units have models. The problem with No Model No Rules is not really that they eliminated a bunch of fringe units that had to be converted, but where it gets crappy is when they are eliminating units that they were selling like, 6 months prior. (Yea all of the eliminated models are in Legends, but that presents its own issues). Example; Eliminating the ranged options for cultists just because the current box does not contain the ranged options. I mean cultists are not some fringe epic hero, but a battleline unit that they have sold probably tens of thousands of kits for, or more. I get that they want new players to be able to just buy a box and play, and that is something that is good, but eliminating something like the cultist ranged option is a real slap in the face to existing players. How hard would it have been to rebox the ranged cultist box to get it to ten guys and just sell it as an alternative.

As for options for units, I am glad they are making more options generic like "acrused weapons". I mean the difference between power sword, maul etc. were minor an only added unnecessary rolling many times. Also the generic option is better for conversions. For example, I had converted a Chaos Lord years ago to be armed with a daemon looking whip. What weapon was it? What ever, but it was not WYSIWYG and an opponent might not understand or remember which one it was. Now, any weapon modeled, whip, mace, giant claw, scorpion tail, etc. is just acrused weapon with all the same stats.

Absolutely prefer "power weapon" as a generic option for things over unique stats of each type.

I think differentiating between weapons at that level is better for a skirmish level game with under two dozen models a side.

For anything larger than that, broad categories are better.

 xeen wrote:
As someone who had to scratch build a defiler in I think it was 4th edition where it was in the codex with no model, I actually do like that all the units have models.

It was in 3rd ed and the Defiler was released in 3rd as well shortly after the Black 13th Crusade book.

When it comes to lumping broad categories of weapons together, like the affore mentioned power weapons and accursed weapons, I usually support it. USUALLY.

This can be taken too far. Just look at Deathwatch. Literally all special weapons were lumped in as "Long Vigle Ranged Weapon" and all CCWs are "Long Vigle CCW". That's just insulting. Can you imagine any other marine faction if melta, plasma, flamer, and storm bolter all had the same stats?

 cuda1179 wrote:
Can you imagine any other marine faction if melta, plasma, flamer, and storm bolter all had the same stats?

You mean like exactly what happened with combi-anything?

 Platuan4th wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Can you imagine any other marine faction if melta, plasma, flamer, and storm bolter all had the same stats?

You mean like exactly what happened with combi-anything?

Ha, was just about to say that. Though I'm sure Chaos players will be along shortly to point out it hits them more than the rest. (I've never been one for combis, but back in my day they only got to fire the special but once, though they cost just as much).

Honestly, I quite like what they did with LVRW. The only issue I take with it is that they apparently lumped Deathwatch Shotguns into that group, which is mostly weird because that's one of the main options that come in the kit.

 LunarSol wrote:
Honestly, I quite like what they did with LVRW. The only issue I take with it is that they apparently lumped Deathwatch Shotguns into that group, which is mostly weird because that's one of the main options that come in the kit.

Agreed on that point, along with Tryanid warriors of both flavors and to a lesser extent Warp Talon Champions. The bits are in the box, but they can't come up with rules for them? WTF?

As for the "marines got combis generifide", sure, you got me there. But I'd still say that's not quite as bad as generic special weapons.

 cuda1179 wrote:

As for the "marines got combis generifide", sure, you got me there. But I'd still say that's not quite as bad as generic special weapons.

The worst part is that the instructions for the 10th Ed Launch box show that they had non-generic rules for Combis and changed it.