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I am starting Dark Angels and I am trying to get the Ravenwing as competitive as possible. I know it can't be top tier, but I think it will be a lot of fun to play, even in tournaments. Here is my preliminary list:

Sammeal on Land Speeder = 205 pts.

Librarian on Bike = 150 pts.

Ravenwing Attack Squadron = 415 pts.
- 6 Bikes w/ 2x Melta, Powerweapon
- Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
- Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter

Ravenwing Attack Squadron = 415 pts.
- 6 Bikes w/ 2x Melta, Powerweapon
- Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
- Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter

Ravenwing Attack Squadron = 360 pts.
- 6 Bikes w/ 2x Melta, Powerweapon, Apothecary, Standard Bearer
- Attack Bike w/ Multimelta

Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter = 100 pts.

Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter = 100 pts.

Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter = 100 pts.

Total = 1820 pts.

Thats 5 Land Speeders, 18 Bikes, 3 Attack Bikes, Character on Bike, Character on Land Speeder. 28 models total.

15 Possible scoring units.

6 Assault Cannons

6 Meltaguns

3 Mutimeltas

Not to shabby.

Tell me what you think!

See your sig.

Oh, serious responses. Sure this isn't a friendly list?

I've seen a similar list played and it worked very well. With everything out LOS after the 12" scout move the opponent had no first turn. Add in all the anti-tank/anti-infantry flexible firepower and entire flanks go down in turns.

I like the list a lot. I might think about adding 2 power fists to get up to 1850, maybe on the squads without the standard.

I think the list will do well in objective missions and poorly in "kill 'em all" missions.

What about a couple of dakka preds instead of the land speeders to get some deployment before your troops have to go down - give you a picture of how your opponent is setting up? They aren't as good at busting tanks, but they might give you a little bit of a tactical edge.

Good luck. Look forward to seeing it next year.

Thanks for the advice, you always seem to show up when I start a new army.



That's what I am hopeing, little to no terrain tables will be my bane. But I like the fact everything in my army can move 24" a turn.



I was actaully thinking of putting a Powerfist in the standrad squad as that will be the only squad I may keep the full 6 most of the time. My fear with putting Power Fists into the basic squads is that, if it become prudent for me to combat squad them out, a powerfist protected by two people ain't going to be fun, at least with the Power Weapon, I get some chance to strike. Besides, if any of my units find themsleves in assault, I am on the loosing end, anyways.



I think your right, and I don't think the list can hang with the big lists, but I think it is strong enough to challenge most balance competitve forces.



That's a good idea, but I would be too tempted to drop Land Speeders to get them, whcih kills some of the flavor for me. (f course any game I loose most of my Land Speeders in the first turn, I will remember you advice).



I owe you a game to be sure after all the advice you have given to me.

What about dropping the meltas for plasmaguns on the squad with the apothecary. Since you can use the apothecary in your turn, you can save the inevitable overheat. Gives you a little more anti-MEQ, especially at close range.

EDIT: Almost forgot, with the "scout" ability, don't you deploy after everyone else, including infiltrators?  Or am I mis-remembering the rule?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I originally put Plasmaguns in all my squads (that's why the points are low) however, I realized I can't fire them and assault in the same turn. (Rapid-fire weapons must be mounted on the bike to do this).

I have considered Flamers in the basic squad to up my Infantry killing potential, as I am not low on anti-tank.

Here's the list I used at 2000points

Master of the Ravenwing in Landspeeder

Chaplain(2wounds) on bike

Squad of 6 bikes - includes powerfist seargent, melta gunner, attack bike with multimelta and a Landspeeder with assault cannon

Squad of 6 bikes - includes powerfist seargent, plasma gunner, attack bike with multimelta and a Landspeeder with assault cannon

Squad of 6 bikes - includes powerfist seargent, melta gunner and a Landspeeder with assault cannon

2 Landspeeders - One with Assault Cannon/heavy bolter and one with just a heavy bolter

2 Landspeeders - One with Assault Cannon/heavy bolter and one with just a heavy bolter

2 Landspeeders - One with Assault Cannon/heavy bolter and one with just a heavy bolter

In 2 RTTs it went 5-1, winning against Armored Co., 84 Space Marines, World Eaters, Termie Heavy Space marines(w/2 libbies) and going 1-1 against the Godzilla list. The first turn charge is huge with this army as it allows you to tie up units that may be hazardous to your speeders.

I was thinking about that first turn charge and how much fun it would be against Tau, IG, and even shooty SM. My biggest fear would simply be not getting the first turn and being stranded. On a board with good amounts of terrain this shouldn't be too much of a problem

Bahkara: Nice record. Good to see success stories with the new DA codex.

Mahu:  I don't think you'll need flamers.  You have plenty of anti troop capabilities.  I recently used flamers vs. Nids, didn't do much better than just rapid firing my bolters.  I say, keep the meltas (since no plasmaguns for you), if you want more troop killing, don't use the meltas and rapid fire the bikes bolters.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

The character is a waste I think. Lots of points for not much benefit.

Something I've probably said before, but, landspeeders at 100pts when you can't have 12 of them are an utter waste. But necessary for pure ravenwing I guess.What I'd consider doing is just getting a horde of MM speeders and using them to isolate and blast squads to bits with ap1 firepower.

It'd be a one-trick pony but it'd be better than a no-trick pony, which is what you currently have.

Power weapons are slowed at any point cost on a sarge. Power fists or bust.

I envision something like:

Sammael

6 man squad with a fist, 2 meltas
6 man squad with a fist, multimelta biker, 2 meltas

4 landspeeders, one tornado, rest multimeltas (295)
4 landspeeders, one tornado, rest multimeltas (295)
4 landspeeders, one tornado, rest multimeltas (295)

Then whatever else you can fit. Yeah the speeders are made of tinfoil and it's nowhere near as good as the old ravenwing list (master + 2 speeders, 3 x 3 speeders, 3 x 1 attack bike, 2 x 4 bikes), but I still think it'd be better than yours.

1 attack bike, 6 bikes and an attack bike + 2 tornado speeders + a librarian v. 9 multimelta speeders

Tough call i think, but your asscan speeders might actually get to shoot with some speeders to protect them.

"The character is a waste I think. Lots of points for not much benefit."

A necessary character plus i like the idea of telling someone I have an armor 14 land speeder. Also adds another asscannon

"Something I've probably said before, but, landspeeders at 100pts when you can't have 12 of them are an utter waste. But necessary for pure ravenwing I guess.What I'd consider doing is just getting a horde of MM speeders and using them to isolate and blast squads to bits with ap1 firepower."

You can still fit 10 in 2000 points and can shoot at more targets.

"It'd be a one-trick pony but it'd be better than a no-trick pony, which is what you currently "

I'd have to disagree from my experience.

"Power weapons are slowed at any point cost on a sarge. Power fists or "

I agree

"Then whatever else you can fit. Yeah the speeders are made of tinfoil and it's nowhere near as good as the old ravenwing list (master + 2 speeders, 3 x 3 speeders, 3 x 1 attack bike, 2 x 4 bikes), but I still think it'd be better than yours "

I disagree. BTW, the old list didn't allow a LS command squad for the MotR per the DA FAQ.  Because of that the old RW lists sucked. The new list is much better and in some ways better than using the SM Codex to create a similar force. The list you made has too few scoring units (8 possible compared to 15 with my list). Although 4 meltas are good, many of those shots may go to waste if you wipe out a small unit.

I've found that having so many small units is really annoying, especially since they are fearless.  Again, the first turn charge is huge against certain armies, so I would usually just charge forward with the bike's scout move and hope to go first. If  i didn't go first my opponent had to shoot at the bikes as I usually hid my Land speeders as much as i could. Because of being fearless and T5 about half my bikes would survive and the I would charge/shoot  the shootiest unitsor move my entire army from one flank to the other to leave a couple of my opponent's units stranded with no one to play with.

And if I did go first >

Thanks for the advice Bahkara. You give me hope as you have confirmed many ways I think this army opperates.

I have been thinking of dropping the attack bike from the command squad and trying to fit a 6th Land Speeder Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter into the list.

How do LS squadrons work for you. Definately to go to 200 points I will start adding the cheep second Land Speeder to my Squadrons.

Are powerfists on such small squads that big of a deal. As I have stated, I can't see where a "hidden" Powerfist stands any chance in a 3 man squad.

Also, is it neccessary to have the second special weapon in the bike squads?

Thanks for the advice.

The character I think is useless is the Librarian. He takes the place of 4-5 warm bodies or two landspeeders, which you can't really afford.

Sammael is easily the best buy in the codex though, so I wouldn't suggest getting rid of him.

The two specials lets you split your bikes up like:

3 man with 2 specials .. 3 man with 1 fist

right? That's awesome.



The only, and I mean only, advantages this list has:
1) lots of small units
2) scouts


But there's something you're forgetting about having lots of small units. It means your units are top-loaded. Every time you lose a model you're losing something precious, just about.

Someone shoots a landspeeder, they take 100pts from you every time they do it instead of having to clear out a whole squad. Every time someone kills 3 bikers (not a difficult task) they're taking 100+ vps, a scoring unit, and a significant amount of firepower.

Bakhara's list I like a little better except for the wasted choppie character, but it's sad that at 2000pts you just barely start to fit in what would make a competitive 1500pt army.

My first version of my own (eventually) Ravenwing list had a chaplain on bike. I eventually dropped him to get 3 more bikes. For 150 (and the 30 points you have left over) you can drop the character, get another 3 bikes with 2 meltas and powerweapon or fist. Or, you can drop the character for -150 points, the 30 points you have left over, and drop one attack bike for -50 pts. Then take 2 multi-melta landspeeders for 130 and another Tornado for 100 pts. Might need to do some FOC wiggling to fit it all in though.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Here is my new list:

Sammeal on Land Speeder = 205

Chaplian on Bike = 130

Ravenwing Attack Squadron = 405 pts.
- 6 Bikes w/ 2x Melta, Powerweapon
- Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
- Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter

Ravenwing Attack Squadron = 405 pts.
- 6 Bikes w/ 2x Melta, Powerweapon
- Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
- Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter

Ravenwing Attack Squadron = 405 pts.
- 6 Bikes w/ 2x Melta, Powerweapon, Apothecary, Standard Bearer
- Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter

Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter = 100 pts.

Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter = 100 pts.

Land Speeder w/ Assault Cannon/ Heavy Bolter = 100 pts.

Total = 1850 pts.

What do you guys recommend I drop to get powerfists in this list?

Currently I am thinking about dropping a Meltagun in the Command Sqaud to upgrade to a powerfist, that way I have 2 ablative wounds, not just one.

I'd drop the standard...+1 attack is nice, but remember that this army works better on the move rather than getting bogged down in assault.

Capt K

Should I take all Powerfists?

I'm not quite sure I understand about the 2 ablative wounds instead of one. Make one of your melta guys the standard bearer and the other the apothecary, that way you have 3 ablative wounds!

If I were to drop anything it would be the standard. You shouldn't really be assaulting with these guys unless you really have to, the extra 1 attack probably won't come into play. You also could change two meltas to flamers to get a fist in (I know, I know, I recommended against flamers earlier).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I am always afraid of "putting all my eggs into one basket", especially with torent of fie. But I think you are right, it will make casualties less hurtful on that unit.



I think you and CK are right. The banner is unneccessary.

The Apothecary will save you from Torrent of Fire. Whoever your oppenent picks to take the first save, if you fail, you can use the Apothecary. If he hits you with enough AP3 to force Torrent of Fire, then you are screwed no matter what.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I actually went over the list again and I do have a powerfist in the standard squad. I can still drop the standard for points, but there is nothing to replace it with.

I am seriously considering a Ravenwing force. Looks like a lot of fun to play and pretty inexpensive as far as armies go. Let us know how you do with it!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Looks as solid as Ravenwing gets.

You have the ability to get the scout move to dart behind cover and still be in T1 assault range, lots of small units, lots of firepower.

Are there matchups that will whack the list? Sure. There always are. But it's going to have a certain advantage in that most people will never have seen it before - always a plus.

Good luck with it up until April 11th.

I have faced assaulty Ravenwing 3 times since the codex change with my Godzilla Nidz and I am very impressed with the power of the list. It must be a blast to play.

Like PapaNurgle says, good luck with the list and I hope you bring it on April 11. I would love to play against it.

Darrian

I am not sure what I am bringing to Adepticon yet, but this list might be there! I am going to try and proxy it on Saturday, see how it does. I have already built my first three and painted my first biker! Now to get to those two Ravenwing Battalion boxed sets I have...

I really like revamped list.  That is sorta what I am working on as well.  I am using powerfists in my squads.

I have a couple of questions. 

Has anybody used the jetbike version of the Master?  I just bought one and was wondering how they work

Can you split off the land speeder from the ravenwing assault squad?

Have you used this list or is it still in the planning stage?  Have you considered a doublewing force or just pure ravenwing?

Thanks and good luck.

Rick

Darrian13: by assaulty Ravenwing, do you mean a list with bike squads that want to charge your tyranids? Are they full 6-man squads? Does a big chunk of the army concentrate firepower and then swoop in to knock off the last wound? If not, what's their game plan? And can they actually survive two rounds of close combat against TMCs and genestealers (or whatever you put into your troop slots)?

Although directed at Darrian13, I 'll answer:

by assaulty Ravenwing, do you mean a list with bike squads that want to charge your tyranids?

Yes, I had 6 3man squadsScout forward 12" towards his line. I got first turn and charged a HT and 1or 2 carnies. My speeders killed another Ht and a carnie I believe. That left him with just his 3 Dakkafexes able to shoot back.

Are they full 6-man squads? Does a big chunk of the army concentrate firepower and then swoop in to knock off the last wound?

Yes they werefull squads. The bikers would tie up as many big bugs as possible in cc and the speeders would concentrate on killing whatever big bugs wasn't in close combat.

And can they actually survive two rounds of close combat against TMCs and genestealers

Darrian13 doesn't use genestealers. they can survive 2 rounds against a carnie, and a HT if they are lucky. I basically don't want my speeders getting shot. i view my bikes as sacrificial lambs in this case. if he did use stealers,  I would either ignore them or just shoot them with the speeders. if he has to assault my bikes to save his TMCs then thats one less turn of his army getting to my side of the board or closer to the objective. And if I take out his synapses early, then his little bugs aren't doing too much moving at all.

Thanks for replying. I'm getting really interested in Ravenwing but cutthroat lists like Godzillas had me wondering if they'd just get destroyed vs. everything.

Again, it depends if you go first or not and you just need to go "balls to the walls". I lost to a godzilla list the first time because I tried to be sneaky. With darrian13 I just said "screw it" and threw everything forward.

In a game like this it all comes down to who can roll the most 6's. In my first game against the Nids my opponent rolled 6's like there was no tomorrow. In my game against darrian13 I had the hot dice.

Quick question about the landspeeder squadrons... heavy bolters or multi-meltas? Heavy bolters compliment the tornado but really don't add anything to the force. Multi-meltas have some mid-range hitting power that ravenwing could use but unless the tornado is shooting at heavy vehicles, it's kind of wasted. I thought you might do an "anti-tank" squadron and an "anti-infantry" squadron. Example:

HQ
Sammael of Speeder

TROOPS
3x Ravenwing Attack Squadrons- 6 bikers, 2 meltas, pfist, attack bike w/multi-melta, tornado

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder Squadron- tornado w/multi-melta, 2 multi-melta speeders
Land Speeder Squadron- tornado w/heavy bolters, 2 hb speeders
Land Speeder Squadron- tornado

It looks like you could theoretically take 13 multi-meltas in this rough 2000 point list... you'd sacrifice about half your anti-horde firepower though (all the heavy bolters except Sammaels) I guess my question is which one to choose.