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I would like to talk about Scout Tactics as because I am tempted to use this unit in many games but never have a defined purpose.

To start off there are 3 forms of scouts that should be recognized:
Combat Scouts- these wield bp/ccw and have a sergeant with either a power fist or a power weapon.
Tactical Scouts- these wield bolters and usually have a missile launcher or heavy bolter and a sergeant with w/e floats ur boat.
Fire Support Scouts- these wield snipers and one of the heavy weapons.

Now lets talk tactics...
Combat scouts can be used as back up combat units to provide outnumber and hidden power fists, but mainly this type of unit will run forward taking objectives and beating up on weak things by charging through terrain which would otherwise hinder an assault.
I have been using combat scouts to provide a forward teleport homer for my terminators and then having them follow the terminators around to basically provide more attacks and better combat results.

Tactical scouts, well... they are just weak space marines, nearly no different tactics than that of a space marine unit other than the fact that they can infiltrate, then after usually hide and pop out to burst fire. or w/e.

Fire support scouts on the other hand can be geared up to take out high toughness opponents such as wraith lords, demon princes, and nid crap by equiping them with all snipers and a missile launcher. But then on the opposite side they can be equiped with all snipers and a heavy bolter to pick on infantry. When you throw snipers at a non-fearless unit they tend to get pinned and then the heavy bolter can throw on some extra wounds for which they can score more kills. These usually are set up with infiltrate into a decent range and usually in cover to keep their fragile butts from getting owned.

Other than that i would like to know some good scenarios and tactics that anyone else has developed with this unit and try provide an example. I read in one of the new books dark angels or one of em that shotguns were raised to strength 4, maybe provide a tactic for this, would be really good against things like nid horde and orks to shotgun some *gak* and assault.

Combat Scouts have made mincemeat out of my Guardians more times than I can count. Note that this was before Eldar got decent AP4 shooting with the Fire Prism.

There's only one thing I can think of that Scouts do well enough to merit taking them over normal Marines, and that's equip Sniper Rifles. If you are expecting to face TMCs, or any list that relies on a lot of high S models, this is where you get a great value out of Scouts.

Otherwise, there's nothing they can do that Tactical Marines can't do better, and for a marginal price increase.

Not to mention that in a DA or BA army, they take up an elite slot, which you probably want to use for something else, or not at.

Tac marines all the way.

T3 and 4+ save is a major downer for something that costs almost as much as a marine. Therefore only 2 reasons to use being 1) setup rule, 2) sniper.

Sniper is only good vs certain targets.

Setup rule is very good if you know what you are doing with it (e.g. blocking a first turn assault, or something similar). Otherwise, it's of no value at all. It's amazing how many games are lost in the deployment phase.

They're still T4.



If you really need to Infiltrate, you can take Veterans.

Yes they are indeed T4. I'm thinking of Storm Troopers. Sorry.

Vets are better but too expensive for a (usually) sacrifical unit.

IMO a single small unit of Scouts are certianly playable for their setup rule.

Posted By SandyAtDakka on 10/26/2007 10:02 PM
Vets are better but too expensive for a (usually) sacrifical unit.

IMO a single small unit of Scouts are certianly playable for their setup rule.

I'm thinking close combat scouts here.

Scouts vs Vets
Scouts are 13 pts and get infiltrate, move through cover and a 4+ save.
Vets are 18 pts, get infiltrate, lose move through cover but get a 3+ save.

10 Scouts with a Vet with a teleport homer are 143 points.
7 Vets with a Vet with a teleport homer are 141 points.

6 Scouts with BP/CCW are 91 points.
6 Vets with BP/CCW are 108 points.

I think a case can be made that it at least comes out even.  Their only real weakness is AP4 shooting which can be mitigated by running them through a forest or careful deployment.

You could take bolters, but I think that within a vanilla Space Marine list their ability to take BP/CCW is more useful.

lrn2math??

6 scouts = 78
6 vets = 108

30 points saved swaping 3+ save for move through cover.

I personally thing that having a unit for back up combat(for outnumber and meat shields), moving through cover, and a unit so cheap(for sm neway) you can send them for the pure objective of capturing things of strategic value.

Oops my bad. I was fooling around I must have left the Vet in. Even better.

Note that you're only paying 2 points less than normal Space Marines. If you're going to use them you better put the infiltrate to good use, or at least count on being able to most of the time.

I'm generally disappointed with scouts, but I've seen some highly-ranked tournament lists that included a squad or two of fire support scouts (with missile launchers).

They dont work in a brute force list. In a subtely list, they do.

What I mean is a BF list might be all Terminator Assault Cannons, Las/Plas Marines and Tornados. You know exactly what it does, but that's all it can do. It's effective for it's efficiency and brute strength.

The subtely lists are equally strong - as has been observed, they can place highly in events - and tend to have one-off squads of less common (but still good) things each of which is there to counter a specific disadvantage, or bring a specific thing to the army, and they tend to use the meta-game more. A lot of people fall down vs that kind of list as they don't understand it's construction or how it works. A simple example is a pushback heavy support unit, deployed first to steal table space. (LOL my opponent just deployed his Whirlwind first in the centre of the table not hiding behind a hill, he's a noob]. A single small unit of scouts is a more complex example of the same priniciple, and adds things to random mission selection, too.

Now that they compete with elites (BA) I will never use them. Before I would take them in the troops slot but they also used to have furious charge (BA).


Vets also have more gear options plas melta ect. Only usefull scout anymore are sniper scouts for all those new MC lists poping up. (Chaos and nids) GW will probably re-write them after they see thier not selling anymore.

In the contest of Dark Angels, I have been tempted with a unit of 10 w/ Shotguns in a Drop Pod. Because the unit is hella cheap.

DP Scouts may be cheap, but I'm not too sure why you'd ever want a shotgun. On a turn that you charge, the additional S4 CC attack from BP + CCW is better (because you'll continue to get it in subsequent rounds); on a turn that you don't charge, the additional AP from a bolter is better.

As far as Shotguns are concerned you could take half and half. On the way to the enemy you get an extra shot off, maybe two if they don't charge you. And then you remove them as casualties in CC. Good use of the BS4.

They're good for things like Genestealers and those silly Eldar CC troops. More importantly they look cool.

I have to say that scout snipers with a ML is a great buy. Fragile but good if you actually know what the hell you're doing with them. Especially when used with teleport homers. Plus, snipers and ML aren't solely good for high T creatures, but can be used to take out vehicles in a pinch as well.

Its the best way to use scouts unless you mount them on bikes.

Lysander loves the little snipers so much, he wishes he could give them termie armour.

That's what I want, Termies with sniper rifles and power fists. Just pin the hell out of whatever you want to assault, and slowly walk towards it. Fun!

Well actually, there's really nothing stopping you from giving your scout vet srg a sniper rifle and terminator armor...

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 11/01/2007 12:54 AM
Well actually, there's really nothing stopping you from giving your scout vet srg a sniper rifle and terminator armor...

There is, it's called social engineering i.e. "Don't invite that guy again".

Everyone knows not do it, or even think of trying it in a tournament ... it's so against GW's intention, but they just cant write tight rules.

For the same reason there's nothign stopping you stuffing jump-pack equipped men in a vehicle (according the rulebook, jump infantry count as standard infantry except for as listed on page 55, which says nothing about transport, ergo they are treated as standard infantry for transport, ergo they can get in a tank.

But have you ever heard of anyone trying it? No because people know it's "rubbish". [Although they can fit in a Thunderhawk coz it says... although we dont play with the 'optional' tanks so never used or read the THawk rules]

Wrong. Jump Infantry is a class, just as Infantry is, and only Infantry can be transported. The mere fact of the name change precludes them.

It's a class that performs "identical to infantry except as detailed below" and the below mentions nothing of transport (page 55).

But don't worry about it - everyone knows the fluff prevents it even if the rulebook doesn't. Having to lose jump packs to buy a Rhino for an Assault Squad I believe shows GW's intent that it should not be possible. They just can't write rules. If someone tries it just hit them on the head with the rulebook and make a mental note to curse GW (and hit them too, perhaps, as long as it doesn';t affect future releases).

Although they can go in a Thunderhawk, counting as 2 but that's ad iffernet kettle of fish entirely.

It doesn't need to, because the prohibition on embarking infantry operates on the transport side, not the passenger side:

"Only infantry may embark in transports unless the transporting vehicle's rules specify otherwise."--pg. 62

The jump infantry themselves don't behave any differently--they can still perform embarking actions--but the vehicle (usually) won't allow them to get on.

We jump infantry count as infantry (except that we go further and over stuff and crash into things when we land in dangerous terrain) and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

So yea, we could get on. But we won't as the fluff monster would eat us.

But the main question is - why am I bothering? :-) I won't do it. No-one I know will do it. Though you could if you were a <deleted>(emperor damned heretic cheating chaos scum).</deleted>

Regarding Terminator Armour + Sniper Rifles, someone along the line, at some point in time, in one MEQ codex or another, you couldn't infiltrate termie armour.

But I don't see why you couldn't justify fluff-wise a non-infiltrating grizzled veteran sharp shooter in Termie armour who leads the neophytes into battle. It could even be a close combat squad w/ a single sniper rifle. Now that would be cool.

I have issues with a terminator armoured sniper rifle. Or it infiltrating. Not even space wolves wolf guards can do that.

But you could have a termie leading a non-inflitrating scout unit. After all, a termie hero could always attach. Hell, you can attach multiple IC to the same squad right?

I play DA and I've had some success running a 10 man squad with 5 BP/CCW and 5 Shotguns with a Vet Sgt with a Fist. Shoots decently and has quite a punch in CC. I use them as a fairly inexpensive scoring unit/ counter-assault unit. Plus, being able to split into two cheap scoring units is pretty cool (just be sure to use them near each other for support).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I am totally going to outfit a scout sgt with a sniper rifle, terminator armor and power fist with 4-9 Bolt Pistol/CCW scouts. Just to confuse the hell out of someone.
But would the sniper rifle count as a one handed weapon, and so give a close combat weapon bonus?

Isn't it more effective to use your elite slots for deepstriking vets with plasma????

If you want a very expensive squad that is bound to get shot to pieces as soon as it lands... then yes, it is better to use DS'ing vets with plasma.

Seriously, it all comes down to playing style and the list. There are uses for both. I like scouts as a counter-attack unit: a 10 man scout squad is about the same as 5 assault marines but shoots better and is IMO better in assault (and more scoring units). Personally, I would never drop a single unit in unsupported, sure they will get 10 plasma shots on the turn they land, but then they will get blown up and I'm out 245 points.

Ozymandias, King of Kings