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The poll yakface started had me thinking of another rule that has been argued alot in the games ive played. The rule says
Each time an enemy uint fires at a unit of grey knights it must check to see if it can see them roll 3D6 and multiply the result by 3..

So some people have told me that a grey knight dread gets to use the shourding rule but i cant find anyway to prove that yet .
Which brings me to Land raiders. Before you burn me at the stake just listen to my side. Now if you take a look at the profile of a dread it says: type walker crew One space marine.

A Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader it says Type: Tank Crew: Grey Knights

So all grey knights benifit from the shourding. There is a crew of grey knights that control the raider. So when you shoot at raider you are also shooting at the crew of knights which means the raider gets shourding. Right?


I know if there is a squad of knights in the raider then the transport doesnt get the special rule but thats not what im talking about its the actual crew of grey knights. So feel free to add your two cents.

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:So all grey knights benifit from the shourding. There is a crew of grey knights that control the raider. So when you shoot at raider you are also shooting at the crew of knights which means the raider gets shourding. Right?

No.
The Land Raider doesn't get shrouding.

When you target the Land Raider, you are NOT targeting the crew. You are targeting the tank. The crew gets the "benefit" of suffering whatever fate befalls the tank.
The crew is superfluous. You get no extra models for them. No extra benefit. For all intents and purposes, they don't exist (at least, not any farther than to note that they're the crew for the tank).

Grey Knights =/= Shrouding.


Eric

Well i didnt say you targeted the crew i said when you target the land raider the crew is also part of what is being shot at. What if i have a grey knight model on the Multi melta on the crusader. Thats an extra model right?

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:So all grey knights benifit from the shourding.

No they don't.

The units listed on page 20 of the Codex ('Grey Knights' Terminology) benefit from the shrouding, as those are the only units that are considered 'Grey Knights' for the purposes of the Grey Knights' special rules.

The Dreadnought and Landraider are not on that list.

Yeah i know dreads dont I already said that. So just because it doesnt say grey knight squad in the crew entry means they are not grey knights?

Boyofdestiny205 wrote: So just because it doesnt say grey knight squad in the crew entry means they are not grey knights?

They're Grey Knights... just not for the purposes of the various special rules that apply specifically to Grey Knights.

Ok well still thats not a good enough arguement. They are grey knights but the just wear their underwear while they are driving the raider not their armour?

They are grey knights but not really they are only called grey knights.

Sorry that just doesnt make enough sense.

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:Ok well still thats not a good enough arguement. They are grey knights but the just wear their underwear while they are driving the raider not their armour?

I'm not sure what else you're looking for, if the actual rules aren't enough. It's not difficult: Certain specific units are listed as counting as Grey Knights for the purposes of the Grey Knights special rules. Units not on that list do not get those special rules. It's that simple.

They're Grey Knights. They're just not Grey Knights to whom the Shrouding applies.

Make sense or not, them's the rules.

Well its just that the shourding is one of the few rules grey knights have goin for them and it would have been nice to have that rule carry over to their vehicles

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:Well i didnt say you targeted the crew i said when you target the land raider the crew is also part of what is being shot at. What if i have a grey knight model on the Multi melta on the crusader. Thats an extra model right?

Actually, you did say that:

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:So all grey knights benifit from the shourding. There is a crew of grey knights that control the raider. So when you shoot at raider you are also shooting at the crew of knights

(emphaisis mine)


Eric

I think this is actually a good question.

Like the psycannon thing, most players I've met assume that GK vehicles don't benefit from shrouding.

However, it makes me wonder why GW included in their official FAQ that a GK dreadnaught benefits from The Aegis special GK rule. (for the Aegis, a GK dreadnaught counts as Leadership 10, IIRC)

So we have another case of GW invalidating what they wrote earlier. What implicaitons could this have? Does it demonstrate intent the GK vehicles should benefit from GK rules?

The reason that the Daemonhunters codex mentions the Aegis for Dreadnoughts is that you can purchase "blessed" for them, which then lets them benifit from Aegis. They do not benefit from it by default.

Edit to add: The daemohunters codex page 20 has a section "Grey Knight Terminology" and the list of units that benefit from special rules for Grey Knights.

if you were to argue the land raider benefits from the special rule "Shrouding" by being a Grey Knight, then you'd also have to argue that it has True Grit and can use its hatch in front to gobble up enemy troops in close combat while gaining an extra attack for having a pintle-mounted storm bolter (that it can carry in one, um, hand...) ^^;;

now the real question is, if you model it with a Nemesis Force Weapon, will it ignore armor saves, and will it count as a force weapon?

Pure genius.

The crews are different to support the rules for taking allies... Nothing more. Grey Knights would never be caught accepting help from a space marine.

As always, in order to be affected by a special rule the rule must be specified in the special rules entry in the army list.

All gray knight units that gain the benefits from the gray knights special rules have "Gray Knights: Grey Knights are subject to the special rules detailed on page 8." in the special rules section.

The gray knight vehicles, including both land raiders and the dreadnought all lack this special rule addition and thus none of them gain the benefit from any effects found there.

Simply remember that if the special rule is not listed in the info on the unit itself then it does not have it.

As an example ork stormboyz do not benefit from the whaaaagh! rule despite being infantry as they do not have the rule listed in their special rules section.

fester wrote:All gray knight units that gain the benefits from the gray knights special rules have "Gray Knights: Grey Knights are subject to the special rules detailed on page 8." in the special rules section.

Except for the Grey Knights Squad, which refers to the special rules on page 10 instead.

But my codex is a first printing. I would hope that's been fixed in later printings.

insaniak wrote:
Except for the Grey Knights Squad, which refers to the special rules on page 10 instead.

But my codex is a first printing. I would hope that's been fixed in later printings.

Page 10 is a fluff page, anyone getting hung upp on such an obvious typo does not deserve to play the game, in any case the special rules state that they have the gray knights special rule, the fact that the page reference is wrong makes no difference.

The point being that nother the dread or ither of the landraiders have the gray knights special rule and thus are not affected by any of the effects described therin.

Could you change the thread name to shrouding? I keeps on making me think of sharting when I scroll down the page. Not a pleasant thought.

fester wrote:Page 10 is a fluff page, anyone getting hung upp on such an obvious typo does not deserve to play the game,

Who's getting hung up on it? I was just pointing it out.

Maybe from a fluff perspective the crew does have shrouding built into their armor or something. That still leaves the HUGE FRACKING TANK in which the crew (which may be invisible) sit which is very much still visible. Even if this were the case, it doesn't matter because crew can't be targeted (any more, I was just reading an old RT book last night. 10 armor values for an Ork warbike anyone? )

I have to ask, did you try to pull this on an opponent or did an opponent pull it out on you?

No i have never tried to force this on anyone or argue during a game over it.
Just thought i would open it for disscusion.

By the way no i didnt say you targeted the crew i said when you shot at the raider you also were shooting at the crew but you are still targeting the raider.

Now do the grey knights make their own raiders or are they made at another forge world or something? Cause no where in the codex does it say that GKs have tech priests. So who fixes their vehicles?

The emperors tech support staff in India.

KiMonarrez wrote:The emperors tech support staff in India.

So thats why it takes so long. Yes it all makes sense now LOL

Boyofdestiny205 wrote: Cause no where in the codex does it say that GKs have tech priests.

It doesn't say that they have toilets either. It's probably fairly safe to assume that they do.

insaniak wrote:

Boyofdestiny205 wrote: Cause no where in the codex does it say that GKs have tech priests.

It doesn't say that they have toilets either. It's probably fairly safe to assume that they do.

Or since they're basically the military arm of the Inquisition (or one of the military arms of the Inquisition) they are able to, shall we say, requisition tech priests/tech marines when necessary? ("Fix that." "No, I'm busy." Boom. "There goes the First Company of your Chapter")

And I have to say that the Adeptus Lavitorium probably doesn't say "no" to the Big =I= either.

You misspell "Shrouding" repeatedly?

LOL

JK

Sorry. Couldn't help but to "rib" you a bit.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:You misspell "Shrouding" repeatedly?

LOL

JK

Sorry. Couldn't help but to "rib" you a bit.

Eric

DAMN IT! Oh well.

"Me fail english thats unpossible." The great Ralph Wigum

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:Yeah but do you know what happens when you make an assumption?

Somebody inevitably trots out a tired old wordplay that doesn't actually make any sense but that people persist in perpetuating under the mistaken idea that it's incredibly clever?