Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok.
I am new enough that I have only played 4th edition.
Disregarding the 5th edition rumors (especially regarding brood telepathy) as such, what is the deal?

I am guessing it is simply the 'fex fascination but I am not sure that holds.

Is it simply the "downgrade" from previous editions? Or do people just not read the book and field less than three?
I have put three biovores into every game over 1k points and they always get a massive number of points in kills. And with a single exception have held objectives/quarters in relevant games.

Pinning + no to-hit + scatter that leaves a unit on the table (that can force target priority!!!) if it misses, and that unit lets you place the extra models of making a miss rather unlikely + no partials on vehicles + holding table quarters/objectives with brood telepathy + huge range + one of the highest AP in the codex (second to the psyc test version of warp blast) + barrage = coolness.

killed an entire squad of marines. killed 14 tau, killed a baneblade (lucky rolls but cheese off, the model left the fight!), made _3_ squads shoot at one cluster of mines in one turn due to priority issues (they lost two models for it as well), actually forced a unit to assault a cluster in a game, claimed 18 of 19 attempts at table quarters/objectives to date - without needing synapse (the 'fex needs synapse and the 'thropes can't hold) + goodness knows what else, that was without thought.

The only negatives I have really read have been "they used to be better".

Please, what did I miss this time?

You haven't missed anything, you've simply noticed what many people miss when caught up admiring the shiny new plastic Carnifex.

Also something you forgot to mention is using Spore Mines to actively deny areas of the board, which is very useful when facing stuff like Orks.

Deny areas of the board with spore mines.

Next, you'll be telling me people don't run right through whirlwind minefields either.

lol you crack me up.

People bring Carnifex's because the flamer template biovore got nerfbatted and so the biovore is useful only against noob marines that put their men shoulder to shoulder in classic 'hit me I bounce back' mode.

Of course people often run through troops through Spore Mines and Whirlwind minefields. The point is making it costly for them, not putting up an impassable terrain feature. That's why it's 'area denial' and not 'placing impassable terrain'.

Stelek wrote:Deny areas of the board with spore mines.

Next, you'll be telling me people don't run right through whirlwind minefields either.

lol you crack me up.

People bring Carnifex's because the flamer template biovore got nerfbatted and so the biovore is useful only against noob marines that put their men shoulder to shoulder in classic 'hit me I bounce back' mode.

So...

basically what i said?


shoulder to shoulder MEQs would have lost more than a single squad to a barrage of three and if the tau I reffered to hsd been so assinine, I would guess more than 14 in a shot however neither was the case, A three round barrage can out damage a single larger template easily and it isn't hard to outdamage the VC a 'fex would have also, I do regularely. the "sniper fex" fielded with a brood of biovores has always looked like a lousy turrent with less wounds and a problem holding objectives/table quarters.

That is assuming people are playing to win. Random games with people oh say deepstriking are not even related. shoulder to shoulder opponents the biovores simply are better apparenly.

Biovores can't capture table objectives.

Where do you see that Yakface?

I know in the 3rd Edition codex they could not, but in the new codex they are no longer "living artilery."

I'm pretty sure if you read the entry it says why.

I'm not seeing anything in the army list entry for Biovores that says they can't capture table objectives. This is the entry on P.45 of the Tyranid book, right? Any hints as to where this tidbit may be found?

Hmmm if not in the entry then in the Tyranid special rules? Dunno, think someone kifed my damn Codex. lol

So could someone with access to a Tyranid book please check this?

Nurglitch wrote:So could someone with access to a Tyranid book please check this?

Biovores are scoring. Zoanthropes aren't due to the Living Artillery special rule... which I think biovores used to have? That would be the source of the confusion.

Whoops. My bad guys, I guess my memory is going. . .I was sure Biovores had the living artillery notation but I guess I got my editions screwed up.

I'm sorry for the confusion.

Thanks Dire Wombat!

I am a bit confused with the wording but if you buy 3 biovores you only get to shoot the mines once but they do barrage flip 3 times?

someone informed me of that instead of them shooting 3 shots and thats still only 6 mines on the field in most games. The Biovores went from the greatest heavy support choice for tyranids down to mediocre.

Don't worry yak, I did too. lol haven't read the codex in forever.

@thehod, yes you fire out X mines per X biovores. Since they stay in a clump if they don't blow up, they're not very useful.

Too bad the Spore Mine barrage FA choice blows too. Wish they'd thought that one through better.

I love them but I go all or nothing with them. 3 in a Heavy Support and 3 Fast Attack with 3 Mines in each. Trust me...just play with it once and watch peoples reactions...priceless. 90% of the time I go with Bio-acid, but Toxin is nice for Nurgle and the like. That's me and I'm crazy but...I run them because most people don't.

Do you ever win a game?

How do you deal with the fact that Marines can achieve a similar effect without totally neutering the list?

Winning a game is only proof of skill where your opponent is skilled.

Regardless I rather like Biovores. At first I tried the Spore Mines as Fast Attack slots because they were cheap and I had points available, I figured: why not? Then they replaced my Raveners as my anti-Land Speeder/Pirahna tools. It's damned handy to have that barrage firepower available for Tyranids, particularly when people catch onto dealing with the so-called 'Godzilla' lists.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to make them without buying the metal kit. It's not that I don't like the newest model, it's just I'd rather have them done in plastic to match the rest of my Tyranids since my Warriors are carrying their ranged weapons on their primary set of limbs to match the Termagants.

Green stuff and some biomorphs will do the trick, nurglitch.

Winning a game is only proof of skill where your opponent is skilled.

What's your point? I am not interested in whether Anarchyman99 is skilled or not. I am interested in the degree of success he's had with the rather extreme list he mentioned.

Stelek: Gee, you think? Really? Maybe, just maybe, I was suggesting that I was figuring out how to combine green stuff and plastic models in a shape I liked.

tegeus-Cromis: Well, if he's not skilled but has had great success with his list then that suggests that it's not the Biovores that are so useful, but his lousy opponents.

Was just sayin...

Such questions are really beyond any assessment we can conduct on this forum. What I am interested in is how the list has achieved whatever successes it may have had. If the guy's answer is "all my friends play footslogging DE and my biovores just rip them up", I think we will be able to draw some conclusions without having to stand beside him and see how well he plays the game.

tegeus-Cromis:

If you're interested in whether the list was successful and how it was successful, then you're going to be interested in how it was used as well as what it used. It's not like armies play themselves.

Where we assume things about how the armies should be used, we simply prejudice the conclusions so drawn. Take your example of the Dark Eldar army without vehicles - a Dark Eldar army on foot is less vulnerable to Biovores than one mounted in Raiders. Spore Mines hit hard enough that the Blast can have a nasty effect on those open-topped skimmers.

But either type of Dark Eldar army has defences against Spore Mines as well, like Scourges, Reavers, Webway Portals, Deep Strikes, Mandrakes, and the like. All of these things give players possibilities that they may or may not be able to exploit on the day of the game.

I think that is why there are so many over-looked units in Warhammer 40k while cookie-cutter lists, at least on the Internet, are so pervasive: because people don't properly assess effect of a unit in combination with other important factors such as how they are used (tactics, skill), where they are used (terrain, etc), when they are used (missions), and so on. No doubt Biovores, like so many other units, are great at some times and not so great at others, but since so many players are risk-adverse that they never learn the conditions and just toss the Biovores (and other units) out with the protoplasmic slime.

The reason that Biovores aren't seen that much is mainly because a Tyranid army without long-ranged AT fire is at a serious disadvantage and Carnifexes fulfill this role much better than Biovores do.

Besides, Biovores are vulnerable to all sorts of things in 40K while there are very few items in the game that fully bypass the Carnifexes high Toughness, many wounds and 3 or 2+ save.


The three 2D3+3 blasts Biovores kick out are, frankly much more unreliable than the two S10 Venom Cannon shots and S8 Barbed Strangler blast that a Gunfex kicks out.

While Biovores have the ability to fire from out of LOS, they essentially have to remain out of LOS because pretty much any long ranged High-strength weapon will decimate the unit if it shows its face (unless you dedicate a Synapse creature to hang out with them). So while a range of 48" sounds pretty good on paper, often opponents can maneuver any useful targets out of that range within the first few turns of the game or space their units out in a way to drastically minimize the damage a barrage will cause.


Then you have the issue of Fury of the Ancients. As long as this power is in the game you have a power that will almost always pin the Biovore unit every turn along with causing damage to it. And there are other poor matchups, a single barrage blast from an Basilisk can potentially wipe out the Biovore unit (again unless you babysit them with Synapse). Basically with their Ld of 5 unless they are babysit by Synapse any pinning weapon or thing that makes them fall back (such as FotD) is going to make them run off the board with very little chance of you being able to regroup them.


So basically as long as Fury of the Ancients is in the game and the Tyranids aren't able to take more quality AT fire a Tyranid player is really left sticking with the Gunfex to make sure they have enough AT fire to face mech armies.

Its not to say that Biovores can't be used and can't be useful, because they can in the right circumstances. Its just that in a take-all-comers list it really behooves you to take either 3 Gunfexes or 2 Gunfexes and 3 Zoanthropes regardless of what the rest of your army configuration is.

They are annoying and not all that effective. They slow the game down and are unreliable. If you take 3 Gunfexes any of them can claim objectives/quarters.

I rather like the way they don't need a line of sight. And those Toxin Spore Mines are a blessing against enemy Monstrous Creatures and light skimmers.

In the old rules, those Toxin Mines were one of my best bets in taking down the fleet of Dark Eldar Raiders my friend is so fond of. Only used em in one game against Tau in the current rules however, and they only did a mediocre job.