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I have been watching this series since it first aired on adult swim. And I loved it. That is until the very last episode.

I really liked how light used the notebook to kill criminals and made it a point to kill the ones that the law couldn’t touch because they had loads of money. (Boondock saints anyone?)

In the anime (yes I know not in real life) he lowered the violent crime rate by 60% and in the last episode they were kind of like hay butt-munch, you’re just a crazy serial killer with a god complex, nothing more. I must agree about the god complex thing as the main guy was always talking about being a god of a new world.
But I thought the same thing after I watched the boondock saints in regard to the killing of criminals. Which is that a lot of the times the people who deserve it, either A. get off completely Or B. go to a resort prison.

I must admit, this last episode has made me want to return the first 3 DVD’s I bought of it (to bad I can’t because I opened them)

If you haven’t seen this anime then watch everything except the last episode…

Sounds like every other anime then.

I used to like it back when I was 15. I thoroughly enjoyed Macross Plus, DBZ and Evangelion. Then everything else I watched after that was more of the same.

I think the only permanent, lasting effect I got from it all is the feeling of comfort whenever I see two musclebound manly men "go at it" and talk about their feelings at the same time. Oh and jet fighter robots. Those are totally awesomely cool.

Revenge is pretty awesome and laws suck. I think we should all go out and kill people we don't like or thought weren't punished enough. It certainly makes a better world to live in when we all get to execute those we perceive as wrong, regardless of civil or criminal law. As long as you've got god on your side, like The Boondock Saints or Hamas, you can kill who you want and blow up what you want.

After all, if a magic book doesn't tell you who you can kill, then what will?

Macross Zero is pretty good, a bit of a different storyline, but not as long as Mac+, but visually, better and it has Roy Fokker in it.

I thought it ended brillantly. The point is that Light *was* insane and killed anyone who got in his way. Heck, he murdered a dozen FBI agents near the beginning of the show.

Huh??? The boondock saints didn’t kill people because they just felt like it. They killed the high ranks that had enough money to do whatever they wanted to and still get away.

Which is better, a guy who has lots of people killed. Gets caught by the law, gets off has more people killed, gets caught gets off ECT ECT ECT. Or the people who save countless lives by ending just that one.

If the law was not corrupt, then that point would be valid. Perfect example, not saying they deserve the death penalty, but when the Hollywood types get a DUI they get a slap on the wrist, say that they are sorry and that they are going to rehab. End of story. Now then, why can they get away with that when a normal guy dose it he will get something 100 times worse??? Because they have money.

Ahtman, I would love to visit this land of magic books in which you live so I can see a legal system that punishes everyone equally for equal crimes. But sadly I live in this place called reality. And hear if you have enough money, you can get away with anything. Or at least go to a resort prison for a heavily reduced amount of time.

DragonPup wrote:I thought it ended brillantly. The point is that Light *was* insane and killed anyone who got in his way. Heck, he murdered a dozen FBI agents near the beginning of the show.

yes i have to aggree that he was a few fries short of a happy meal. but he did lower the crime rate by 60% (in the anime) cant argure with the results.

But how many did Light kill to get that result? He had Mikimi do a full page a day in the Death Note. On top of that, he had people killed as they were arrested, so it is implied that very few people killed by Kira were actually convicted.

DragonPup wrote:But how many did Light kill to get that result?

a lot...

DragonPup wrote:He had Mikimi do a full page a day in the Death Note.

thought he did the one page deal on his own?? not sure about that one though.

DragonPup wrote:On top of that, he had people killed as they were arrested, so it is implied that very few people killed by Kira were actually convicted.

i think that was when whats his name from the big company had the death note for a while (when light gave up the notebook and lost his memory of it, and was working with L), he killed people as they were arrested. light even made it a point to say that that was very unlike kira.

Envy89 wrote:Huh??? The boondock saints didn’t kill people because they just felt like it. They killed the high ranks that had enough money to do whatever they wanted to and still get away.

You are either young, naive, or both.

Envy89 wrote:
Ahtman, I would love to visit this land of magic books in which you live so I can see a legal system that punishes everyone equally for equal crimes. But sadly I live in this place called reality. And hear if you have enough money, you can get away with anything. Or at least go to a resort prison for a heavily reduced amount of time.

You are either young, naive, or both.

You watch juvenile power trip fantasies, and then want the world to be like your TV shows and movies. That is kinda sad. Your parents should have probably explained this to you a awhile ago. What you see in TV and Movies, is fake, and doesn't translate to the vagueries and complexities of actual existence. Ignoring society and going around and killing people you don't like makes you a terrorist/serial killer/mass murderer, not a hero. Even if your little magic book (Koran, Bible, Mein Kampf, Deathnote) tells you.

A perfect system is an impossiblitly, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't try to work toward betterment. If you don't like it, then stand up and be an activist and work on it. Standing at the sidelines bitching, while actually knowing nothing about it (which I gather from your posting) and watching TV all the time and bitching is, again, kinda sad.

It's funny that you seem to think the world is a bad place where people get away with crime and your solution is to murder people and get away with it. Bravo young man, bravo.

In our society, the murder of unconvicted individuals is
considered a violent crime. Does the 60% factor this in, or
did the writers go for a simple "Crime went down 60%".

I haven't seen the show.

Ahtman…

What I gather from your posts is that you don’t care who gets away with what... "O so the judge that is on payroll let a high rank off for ordering the murder of 10 people... well, the judged let him off so he must be innocent."

I know a perfect system is an impossibility... there will always be bad people out there.

Gathering info from you posts ahtman, I am going to say that you are an atheist... that is sad really, because I wish for a better world you chastise me...

I have tried to help make the world a better place, I have gone on multiple mission trips, and I give regularly to charities. I have made a huge difference in many lives... like putting kids through school, helping fund the building of churches, helping build a church, helping build a hospital, serving in homeless shelters... ECT ECT ECT.



Malfred.

I believe that it was a "crime went down by %60"

Ahtman wrote:[ Ignoring society and going around and killing people you don't like makes you a terrorist/serial killer/mass murderer, not a hero. Even if your little magic book (Koran, Bible, Mein Kampf, Deathnote) tells you.

Or if you're an atheist and kill people in their millions (Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin), but I digress.

Vengeance is a time honored tradition of storytelling, back to Agamemnon getting the axe from his wife (IIRC). And like the Godfather, the real world results are often bloody, pointless, and filled with innocent bystanders. But its still great storytelling

Envy89 wrote:What I gather from your posts is that you don’t care who gets away with what...

You need to go back to your public school teachers and demand your money back. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

Envy89 wrote:Gathering info from you posts ahtman, I am going to say that you are an atheist... that is sad really, because I wish for a better world you chastise me...

Going to have to go back to your reading comprehension. Your level of Confirmation Bias is high. You aren't reading what people are writing, but what you think they are writing.

I pity you. You seem to have little grasp of the greater spiritual levels of Christianity. You think building something makes you good while dreaming of the execution of those you don't like, which, you know, is not something Jesus was down for.

jfrazell wrote:Vengeance is a time honored tradition of storytelling, back to Agamemnon getting the axe from his wife (IIRC). And like the Godfather, the real world results are often bloody, pointless, and filled with innocent bystanders. But its still great storytelling

I don't have any problem with vengeance. I enjoyed Boondock Saints, it was a fun movie, but not once did I think "man, the real world should be like this!". It is a movie. Envy is the kind of kid that people who try to ban movies and video games are thinking of when they do their thing. So easily influenced by the moving picture and confusing real life with fictional fantasies.

I also meant to put the Communist Manifesto on the list as well. It's not a question of Athiesm vs Spirituality, but one of freedom vs oppression. Any of those books have been used as excuses to commit horrible crimes, which isn't to label Christianity as evil, but should serve as a warning for Christians to be aware of the evils that can be wrought up using your own book. For example it can warp a Christian from wanting to follow in the path of Jesus into wanting, hmmm, oh lets say, justifying the murder of others.

Everything is an excuse for genocide. Religion is just one, but not the great killer when compared to the 20th Century's murder regimes. Its interesting that religions is frequently a thin veil over the quest for land, resources, and power. But again thats off from the thread.

EDIT: Lets turn this thread into a list-

TOP 5 Vengeance Movies, plays, or TV series:
(mine, I'm sure I'll think of more after I post)

*Unforgiven (the central plot is the vengeance bounty on two cowboys for scaring a woman)
* Battlestar Galactica (humans and robots go at it. Robots hold a grudge and wipe out humanity)
*Romeo and Juliet (Do you bite your thumb at me sir!)
*Braveheart (nothing says vengeance like a mace to the face)
*Star Trek II, the Wrath of Khan (Khannn!!!!!!!)

jfrazell wrote:Everything is an excuse for genocide. Religion is just one, but not the great killer when compared to the 20th Century's murder regimes. Its interesting that religions is frequently a thin veil over the quest for land, resources, and power. But again thats off from the thread.

EDIT: Lets turn this thread into a list-

TOP 5 Vengeance Movies, plays, or TV series:
(mine, I'm sure I'll think of more after I post)

*Unforgiven (the central plot is the vengeance bounty on two cowboys for scaring a woman)
* Battlestar Galactica (humans and robots go at it. Robots hold a grudge and wipe out humanity)
*Romeo and Juliet (Do you bite your thumb at me sir!)
*Braveheart (nothing says vengeance like a mace to the face)
*Star Trek II, the Wrath of Khan (Khannn!!!!!!!)

My top three (all historicals, huh)
Rob Roy (the movie) - Watch it for the fight betwwen the villian and the hero at the end.
Titus andronicus- Yeah, the bard knew vengeance- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_andronicus
The Count of Monte Cristo- Read the book.

ahtman wrote:I pity you. You seem to have little grasp of the greater spiritual levels of Christianity. You think building something makes you good while dreaming of the execution of those you don't like, which, you know, is not something Jesus was down for

When have I ever said I dream of execution??? Seams like you should pay attention to your high school teachers a little more. Or go request your money back.

Ahtman wrote:I don't have any problem with vengeance. I enjoyed Boondock Saints, it was a fun movie, but not once did I think "man, the real world should be like this!". It is a movie. Envy is the kind of kid that people who try to ban movies and video games are thinking of when they do their thing. So easily influenced by the moving picture and confusing real life with fictional fantasies.

.... Wow, I pity you if you really think that. Lets keep in mind we are talking about an anime hear. And if you go back are read the OP...

envy89 wrote:In the anime (yes I know not in real life)

I do know the difference between real life and movies / video games.


ahtman... your vicious personal attacks are getting annoying.
If you post again please keep it civil.

Notice how I chat with the other posters that keep it civil (dragonpup).
You can disagree with my views, but there is no need for saying about half of the things you have said.

But then again there are always flamers like yourself that come along.

It's so sad to see someone so lost in delusion. I feel for you bud.


Now on to jfrazzel awesome thread hijack.

Unforgiven
Godfather 2 - Most of the movie is about Pacino outmaneuvering and getting back at the attempt on his families life
Rob Roy
I Spit on Your Grave - not a very good movie really, but very viscerally shows rage and revenge
Memento - a very interesting film and shows how the need for revenge can be exploited

holy crap... i had no idea that putting someone on the ignor list made thier posts invisible.

this is actualy really nice... now i dont have to deal with athmans incesint flaming.



list.

off the top of my head without digging really deep.

godfathers 1 and 2
boondock saints
the untouchables
troy
V for vendeta

1. Revenge of the Nerds

That's it.

Isn't an ignore list basically the internet version of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"?

I talked to a priest and a pastor today and oddly enough, neither of them were to keen on the whole murder thing. Weird, I know.

What about Revenge of the Nerds 2? I feel like there is an Alfred Hitchcock movie that is being left out, but which one eludes me at the moment.

Ahtman, unless you've consulted an old priest and a young priest then your exorcism, er consultation won't work. Someone get the stick...
(get the reference and you win a cookie, but not the one I'm eating)

Nevenge of the Nerds, leads to Animal House, which leads to BLUTARSKY FOR PRESIDENT!!!

Added to the list
*Animal House (This Board is on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!)
*JAWS IV (when a 30 foot killer shark hunts you for revenge, its best to move to Omaha)
*Bad Day at Black Rock (Have no idea but it just sounds cool)
*High Noon
*Conan the Barbarian

Envy89 and Ahtman.... don’t make me put you to in separate corners now.

envy89... ahtman has a few good points.
1. An ignore list really is the internet version of putting your fingers in you ears and going "LALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU"... ty for that one ahtman, it made me laugh a bit
2. Civil and criminal law is important.
3. Mass murder is not the answer (unless we are talking about a swarm of gaunt’s running at my guardsmen... then mass murder is DEFINALTY the answer )

Ahtman... envy89 has a few good points.
1. The legal system dose seam to have a hard time handling the "Hollywood types" as envy89 put it
2. Believe it or not, there are a few (not saying a notebook full of names though) people out there who deserve the death penalty.

Ahtman... as a 3rd party, even I find your posts as kind of attacking envy89... maybe not "vicious" but still attacks.
It would help this situation a lot if both parties involved would grow up a little bit.

envy89. No need to resort to name calling.

Ahtman. No need to assume things about envy89.


On a personal note ahtman, I would prefer it if you didn’t refer to the bible as a "magic book".

Ditto.

I am also reminded by something Ryuk said at the beginning of the series, (paraphrased) "If you kill all the bad people, then you'll be the only bad person left".

Merrin and Karras will be over to get my cookie shortly.

That Guy wrote:2. Believe it or not, there are a few (not saying a notebook full of names though) people out there who deserve the death penalty.

We were never talking about the death penalty or capitol punishment. There is a difference between state sanctioned executions in which there was a trial and sentencing and some random person saying, "you know, I don't like OJ and I think he's guilty", then going over to his house and shooting/stabbing him.

That Guy wrote:
On a personal note ahtman, I would prefer it if you didn’t refer to the bible as a "magic book".

If you can get whatever cookie jfrazzel isn't sharing (it must be wonderful) I'll think about it. But I demand cookies.

Ahtman wrote:

That Guy wrote:
On a personal note ahtman, I would prefer it if you didn’t refer to the bible as a "magic book".

If you can get whatever cookie jfrazzel isn't sharing (it must be wonderful) I'll think about it. But I demand cookies.

I agree. There is nothing magical about a severely outdated work of extremely biased historically based fiction.


And on the "magic book told me to do it" bit. How is this any different from your neighbor's dog telling you to do it? (more cookies abound)

Perhaps the notebook is nothing more than a metaphor for the character's insanity, drive, and perceived (but not actual) right to commit murder.

I think the entire series is a social commentary on how deep down, no matter how much we tell ourselves its wrong, we all want to kill off the people that are "bad" in our eyes. I put the word bad in quotes because what is good or bad is ENTIRELY opinion. What is acceptable in one region of the world is taboo in another.

Thats not a true statement in a variety of crimes. People who staple babies to chickens are generally universally reviled (if you know that joke you just dated yourself). people who feed other people into woodchippers are generally frowned upon across the globe. People who commit theft are generally viewed as criminals, as is Congress..er...

your missing my point entirely. There are always exceptions, what i was saying was just an example...like cannibalism is quite obviously seen as disgusting in most parts of the world. but there are some places in the pacific islands around east Asia that practice it as almost a ritual.