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during hard boyz on saturday the last game was against a drop pod army his pods were wood arches to the turret on top. should I have shot through the pods since I clearly had line of sight to his guys? (he would get a cover save of course.).

Sure. Assuming you could draw LOS through the pods, you are allowed to fire through the pods.

Yes, the game is now all TLOS. Even the plastic kits will be designed to see through. And the Drop Pod rules explain that they immediately open and are immobilized so opponents cannot claim it is still closed even if they glue it shut.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

basicly was planning on it if i do meet up against him at the semi's

I would gladly let him close the doors on his pod but sadly his pods have no doors.

It does say that when it lands it is no longer a sealed environment and counts as open-topped, so I gather from that, that you cant shut the doors after it lands.

I seem to recall reading that a model may not change shape during the course of the game, so that the orignal shape of the drop pod must be used, (that would be with closed doors). This means to me, you would not shoot through a drop pod unless you had destroyed the model.

skkipper wrote:during hard boyz on saturday the last game was against a drop pod army his pods were wood arches to the turret on top. should I have shot through the pods since I clearly had line of sight to his guys? (he would get a cover save of course.).

Smashotron wrote:Yes, the game is now all TLOS. Even the plastic kits will be designed to see through. And the Drop Pod rules explain that they immediately open and are immobilized so opponents cannot claim it is still closed even if they glue it shut.

Actually, it WILL matter, as TLOS is TLOS and modelling makes a difference.
It's cheesey, and any FAIR player will let you "see through" the closed pod... but he doesn't have to.

it's just like modelling your commander on a rock formation, or Assault Marines in the air... You don't get to "pretend" that they're at ground level. You go by WYSIWYG... and that means a drop pod modelled with its' doors closed WILL block TLOS.

Eric

There's a few things to consider:

1) There is no rule requiring the doors to remain open, so a player can glue the doors shut when they build it if they want to. This will also require them to mount the weapons externally if they want to use them.

2) I've seen the plastic pod up close, and the only part you can draw line of sight through is the upper area, which is too high to draw LOS to a marine unless you are coming from a very high elevation, so don't think that it is going to happen very often.

3) If you start saying things like, "Well, I would be able to see through it if it were modeled differently," then you are no longer playing True Line of sight.

4) Most of the Pods people have been making themselves for years do not have opening doors. Even the Forgeworld models cannot be built with all the doors open due to piss-poor casting. Only the new plastic model kits are capable of being built with the doors open.

I was playing this game against orks and they charged a pod... blew it up in close combat then more than half the mob died in the ensuing explosion. It was really funny and I could not help but laugh hard. Then the rest of the ork mob failed their morale check and started falling back. The guy was really pissed off.

G

Sazzlefrats wrote:I seem to recall reading that a model may not change shape during the course of the game, so that the orignal shape of the drop pod must be used, (that would be with closed doors).

Only if you model it so that the doors are closed to begin with... If you glue the doors open, or have them open when you place them on the table, then that's the 'original shape'...

But that's all getting a little nit-picky. Whatever your opponent puts on the table blocks LOS as it is sitting on the table. If you can draw LOS through it, then you have LOS. If you can't, you don't.

yep so if i play agianst the pod guy at the semi finals. I will be shooting through his pods since they block no line of site.

I suppose the trade off would be if the pod's doors are open you only have to deploy within range to any of the flat against the table doors whereas if they are glued shut you have to deploy closer to it.

Really I would expect most of my opponents to be prepared to deploy pods doors down as is legitimate but if they couldn't for whatever reason then yeah, no LOS means no LOS, can't imagine that it's not there.

Drunkspleen wrote:I suppose the trade off would be if the pod's doors are open you only have to deploy within range to any of the flat against the table doors whereas if they are glued shut you have to deploy closer to it.

Nope, regardless of whether the doors are open or closed, measurement to and from the pod is to the main hull.

MagickalMemories wrote:
it's just like modelling your commander on a rock formation, or Assault Marines in the air... You don't get to "pretend" that they're at ground level. You go by WYSIWYG... and that means a drop pod modelled with its' doors closed WILL block TLOS.

Problem is, the majestic pile of rocks on your commander's base DO put his head in the crosshairs and out of cover, but your other models sure as hell aren't allowed to hide behind it. That's one of the areas TLOS falls apart (and all the other things that rely on static representations of highly mobile things ) And frankly, seems like an odd stab at players who want to put flamboyant models on the table without wondering if their modelling will bite them on the ass on the tables. You know something's up when there's a mechanical advantage to modelling all of your melee troops in the fetal position.

insaniak wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:I suppose the trade off would be if the pod's doors are open you only have to deploy within range to any of the flat against the table doors whereas if they are glued shut you have to deploy closer to it.

Nope, regardless of whether the doors are open or closed, measurement to and from the pod is to the main hull.

Curious What defines the 'main hull' of a drop pod when the doors are open? The petals seem to be the hull itself whether opened or closed. Looking at my plastic pod I see the fins and the base of the pod as part of the hull as well. Do would one measure from the fins or the petals, extended or closed, as the main hull?

When one disembarks from a LR variant and has his doors opened would one measure from the extended door opening or the 'main hull'? Or a DE raider with the proboscis on the front of the raider. It's open topped and one could measure from that elongated piece as it's part of the vehicle. Where is the line drawn if at all?

Hey Skipper, if your opponent wants to argue true line of sight, just call a judge and get him DQ'ed for not using GW or Forgeworld models. The onus is on him if he doesn't even bring the appropriate size and shape of pods. I've had opponents with painted two liter bottles for pods that make it awfully convenient to build LOS blocking walls.

heh, i thnk my stormboyz will screw me over, all on high flying bases.
not sure how badly yet, but if it has a big effect they ill be taken down :p

The other thing with pods is when thier opened up do you have to stay and inch away from the opened legs/hatches. If so you can deploy your marines around it in such away as to prevent an immediate assault forcing them back further than 6. Why would you have to assault to the main hull versus the extended hatches when assaulting a drop pod btw?

Lemartes wrote:The other thing with pods is when thier opened up do you have to stay and inch away from the opened legs/hatches. If so you can deploy your marines around it in such away as to prevent an immediate assault forcing them back further than 6. Why would you have to assault to the main hull versus the extended hatches when assaulting a drop pod btw?

I do not believe you would have to. I looked on page 63 of the rules and it makes no mention of a hull only that all hits are registered against the rear armor. My pods will be placed on the table with the petals open and then roll for scatter.

Nice idea, less chance for scatter and creates a larger occupied area around the pod.Do the legs also creat difficult terrain tests to assault past them to the models behind them.

Lemartes wrote:Nice idea, less chance for scatter and creates a larger occupied area around the pod.Do the legs also creat difficult terrain tests to assault past them to the models behind them.

Not unless it's destroyed and is difficult terrain. Can't assault across another unit/model right? One must assault taking the most direct route correct? Basically in that scenario one would be assaulting over a non destroyed enemy vehicle/model which is not allowed.

Pods better get a faq soon.

Lemartes wrote:The other thing with pods is when thier opened up do you have to stay and inch away from the opened legs/hatches.

That's not an 'other thing'... it's something that was already covered.

Blunt Force Trauma wrote: I looked on page 63 of the rules and it makes no mention of a hull only that all hits are registered against the rear armor.

Page 63 doesn't. Page 3 does.

So if what some of you guys are saying is true about how you can model to your advatage or disadvantage. Then I guess you will see that one dude come in with all of his SMs [or whatever] crawling on their bases. lol


-RedHotAction

RedHotAction wrote:So if what some of you guys are saying is true about how you can model to your advatage or disadvantage. Then I guess you will see that one dude come in with all of his SMs [or whatever] crawling on their bases. lol

This has been true for 20 years now.

Yes, that 'one dude' may do so. Everyone else won't.

And if that "one dude" shows up at any events I'm running, he's welcome to watch, but that's about it.

insaniak wrote:

Lemartes wrote:The other thing with pods is when thier opened up do you have to stay and inch away from the opened legs/hatches.

That's not an 'other thing'... it's something that was already covered.

Blunt Force Trauma wrote: I looked on page 63 of the rules and it makes no mention of a hull only that all hits are registered against the rear armor.

Page 63 doesn't. Page 3 does.

Thanks. As for what is the hull on a Drop pod? The petals being closed would make for a hull would it not? Now assuming we all agree on that aspect would the petals in the open position still be considered a hull? The only hull of a DP that I can see is either the fins or the doors (when closed) as being the hull. The drop pod is a weird model which may require some clarification admittedly.

Well based on what was said earlier. If the rules say that the doors must be opened when it lands then they must be opened. Otherwise what they are doing is illegal. If they are not going to let you shoot through and not opening the doors they they should not be allowed to deploy or even set down the drop pod. This is assuming that what SMASHOTRON said is true.

To quote the new Space Marine Codex

Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal.

What that means as far as doors open or closed is anyones guess.