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What is everyones opinions on setting Carnifex up? I hear people say Barbed and Venom, but with their strength wouldn't close combat be a great option too? Just wanted to hear what nid players think, and other player on how nids hurt your army. Thanks.

I would pick:

Elite
- carnifex Bstrangler + talons.
- carnifex Bstrangler + talons.
Heavy
- carnifex: vennom cannon, Extra Bskill, talons, reinforced chitin.
- carnifex: vennom cannon, Extra Bskill, talons, reinforced chitin.

Shooty carnifexes are still good in Close Combat. You have to keep it cheap because you need the other points for more troops these days.

Check out Yakface's Carnifex article on this site. It is quite useful but note that it was written for 4th edition. Most people use a Carnifex with Venon Cannon and Barbed Strangler due to the fact that it is the only place you can get long ranged anti-tank ability in the Tyranid list.

If you want the nastiest combo you can get, you take six 113 point +1 BS twin devourers.

If you want a setup for a couple of carnies to support a horde, that wont be it and I cant help you there.

Not really nasty.

Barbed strangler is superior.

For the cost of 114 points, you can get 4 warriors (3 with deathspitters, 1 with TL deathspitter).

Much better buy imo.

now the balance has changed , dakkafex may give up its positon to DS warrior , 24" S6 blast is more attractive , with running rule the 18" range of devourer is too easy to get fex into CC.

See I like the warriors with Barbed Stranglers. For 10 points I get a Barbed strangler for each brood. My gaunt size is so big that if the opponent focus on killing my warrior, hive tyrant, or Zoanthrope that may screw me. Psynapse, but if carnifex's were out front opponents may switch their focus. Is this a bad idea?

Personnally, I am starting to think

Barbed Strangler & Talons... and not positive about adding the BS.

This gets you an 5" pie plate. With no BS it still is on target 33% and it is only going to scatter 5". Left this way it is an elite fex.

Give it +2 Sv, +1T, +1W, whatever you want and it still works as a heavy choice.

Now your fexes lead the assault and soak all that fire for everyone else. The templates are not accurate but tell me what is the value of an average 4" scatter 67% of the time over 5" scatter 67% of the time? Either beats 4th ed. 50/50 the template even shows up on the table.

I hate venom cannons in 5th ed. They can only glance so we are talking shot denial only. I think you are much better with a
8 Str chance at a pen versus a weapon with 2 shots that will never do better than a multiple immobilize death. The talons? Well you just turned it into a muli-purpose fex and I don't think that is all bad... these walk up firing their stranglers causing mayhem. Does your opponent ignore them? Good, when you get within 12" you can charge the tank (insert your favorite snack) and you have 4 attacks at Str 9 on it. Want a little more fire... put the spineback on it but then you better add the BS +1 or why waste your time.
If you really want tanks, add a bioplasma, +1 Str or a tail.

I agree about Venom Cannons, I started with fifth edition and Tanks and Armor seem to hurt more than anything. And Fex have a strength of nine so for most things that's a 4 up pen. I am liking the combo option. Shoot while close distance. Should I consider crushing claws instead of Talons?

With Crushing Claws there's only a 50% chance you'll end up with more attacks than you start out with (assuming Claws and Scything Talons as your outload). Ninjafex is a much better, points effective build (2x Talons, Toxic Miasma, Adrenal Glands WS)...5 MC attacks on the charge, probably striking at 3+ at S9.

Though....Claws, Talons, Tail Scythe, Tusked....a potential of 12 attacks on the charge is disgustingly tempting...

Yea, I had some bad luck with crusher fexes, rolling ones in subsequent rounds of combat is just ridiculously iritating, I wouldn't build them anymore.

oh yea, and 1 more vote for venomcannon = trash. I don't have any in my army, and I have never missed them.

I still like the Dakkafex just fine, its a great thing!

Hey quick question, without starting a new post:

I have horde nids and only one carni (BS, VC, +1BS) but am about to (like tonight) build another carnifex. What would be the best build for supporting horde? CCfex to distract or a shooty fex to cover fire? I also have a tyrant and three guard unassembled. why this set up, how should I do up my tyrant?
Thanks,

Sniperfexes used to be good in 4th because you could still destroy a vehicle on a glancing hit. Now with 5th I'm looking at 2 Sniperfexes that may need to sit out for a while due to the fact that I can't pop anything but Ork Trukks.

As far as setups to support hordes I'd say make sure to get the +toughness and the extra wound as well as the +2 save. Then just outfit it as fearsome as you can get it to look. Let it soak up fire while your swarm runs in for the kill. I have won more games at my FLGS due to the psychology of Carnifexes looking mean and scary than just non modded, simple looking fexes.

I have to say, that I still wouldn't trade away my 2 gunfexes for anything, even with V5. Keeping the enemy tanks from shooting for a turn is almost guaranteed with S10 venom cannons, which buys more time for the rest of your force.

stranglerfexes are definitely full of Win for the Elite slot, though.

I always loved the "Godfex". Set up to deal near max # of attack in HtH. Finally getting to start on the board most of the time and now running with 5 wounds (and maybe even re-gen) he's almost guaranteed to get there! Just make sure he's not the only nasty thing they have to shoot at.

Smashotron: I'd build your Carni to what your army is needing. If you're short on firepower, go dakka or strangler fex. If you want something scary to fire magnet for your horde go CC fex.

I am going to have to say for pure shooting effectiveness, the warrior/TL-deathspitter pumps out more wounds than the dakka or strangle fex. More chances to hit compared to the BS and longer range than the dakka fex. In the last game I played, I averaged 8 wounds and three kills per 3 man unit against marines. Not a big fan of replacing a TL-Death spitter for a BS as I decrease my % chance to hit and now wound on 4 against most enemies instead of 2. Added bonus is that warriors are tall enough to provide 50% cover for 3rd edition gunfexes and receive cover from the token WoN gaunts.

I still run a couple of gun fexes with VC to shut down nasty tanks so that my stealers or tyrants can pop them in h2h. They work wonders at shutting down annoying vindicators. And as an added bonus they easily pop drop pods (I can't believe I get a KP for this) causing wounds to the nearby space marines.

If you are going for straight assault, then the ninjafex would prabably be a better fit your army. Extra biomorphs for heavies that are useful and cheap IMO would be the tail mace, chitin (extra wound), possibly the + 1 to initative if facing terminators. Crushing claws are way too expensive for what you get as you give up 3 guaranteed attacks for 1d6.

I am still quite new so could you explain what:
Godfex
Dakkafex

are?

Depending on game I think I like the idea of running cc fex and a sniperfex. I can always get glancing hits and disable weapons while moving in for the kill with the cc. If it's a 750pt game I like the idea for combo. That way I can push forward while still doing damage.

Smashotron: If you are going to go horde (I am assuming guants and hormaguants), I would proabably go with a tyrant with lash whip/bone sword and scyths and accompany him with guard also equiped with lash whips. The reason is you are going to need your synapse to keep pace with your guants, which means running. The lash whip helps those guants assulting into cover, with thier 6+ save you really don't want to lose the wound count. If you are running hormaguants, you are still going to have problems with getting out of range of synapse thanks to thier 12" assault and synapse lack of such. Keep your gunfex as he can stop those template toting tanks from shooting into your rank and file.

God Fex = Fex armed with just about every biomorph available (toughness 7, 5 wounds, 2+ save, regeneration, ect)...usually in the 250+ pt range

Dakka Fex = fex armed with 2 TL devourers and enhanced senses

God Fex = Fex armed with just about every biomorph available (toughness 7, 5 wounds, 2+ save, regeneration, ect)...usually in the 250+ pt range

I've always considered the "God Fex" to be one maxed out for HtH, not pumped up on points. You can make a really HtH nightmare for around 150-170 points, I wouldn't want to break 200 points a Carnifex, that's called a "Point Sink".

As for the Dakka Fex, normally it's mounting dual twin-linked Deathspitters with Enhanced Senses. So that's 8 shots, hitting on a 4+ re-rolling misses and re-rolling failed to-wounds. Oh, and NO AP VALUE so yeah, all those nice bonuses and you can't even punch through 'guard armor. Way to go. Oh and by the way, you've also taken a great HtH unit and reduced it's HtH effectiveness as much as you can. I like fighting Dakka's with my Marines, especially since I still run power fists in my tac squads. 18" range means I'm only going to have to put up with getting shot by the thing once (no, I don't just sit there like an idiot and let it sit in cover and shoot at me for a few turns). If he's lucky and I'm not then I might lose a Marine. Then I go charging in because I've still got a nearly full squad of Marines with toys and you have a big nasty bug that only gets 2 attacks against me and misses 50% of the time.

Oh and no, I didn't agree with Yakface's Carnifex article in 4th and I certainly don't in 5th.

As for the Dakka Fex, normally it's mounting dual twin-linked Deathspitters with Enhanced Senses. So that's 8 shots, hitting on a 4+ re-rolling misses and re-rolling failed to-wounds. Oh, and NO AP VALUE so yeah, all those nice bonuses and you can't even punch through 'guard armor. Way to go. Oh and by the way, you've also taken a great HtH unit and reduced it's HtH effectiveness as much as you can.


They're Devourers.

Starting at WS3, 2 Attacks and I1, I'm not sure where you're getting the great HtH unit from. In 4th ed, with escalation and no run rule, CC Carnifexes were a waste as you weren't even sure if they'd actually get into combat in the first place which is why everyone went shooty for them. Don't get me wrong, I think CC Carnifexes are great fluff, but their stats beg to differ.

The Dakkafex is so good because for 113 points, you're getting great mileage. 8 Shots that reliably wound anything T5 and weaker and threaten light vehicles per turn? And you've just charged into it with your 150+ point Marine squad? Sweet. Odds are, there's another Dakkafex lying around in that army anyways, and your marines wound that thing on 6's, one powerfist isn't going to kill it in a turn. And while you dance around smacking it uselessly, the rest of the Tyranid army continues to devour everything else.

They're Devourers.

Oops. Well, I know they are the ones that look like semi triangular cones.

I'm not sure where you're getting the great HtH unit from. In 4th ed, with escalation and no run rule, CC Carnifexes were a waste

Yup very true, but we're in 5th Ed now...

And you've just charged into it with your 150+ point Marine squad? Sweet. Odds are, there's another Dakkafex lying around in that army anyways

And it'll do what? Shoot into the HtH? Or is this that variant of the "my 1 unit can beat up your 1 unit" game where you add in a 2nd unit and we just both conveniently forget that entire armies are on the table? Sure you have another Dakka Fex, and I bet I got a bunch of others toys too!

and your marines wound that thing on 6's, one powerfist isn't going to kill it in a turn. And while you dance around smacking it uselessly, the rest of the Tyranid army continues to devour everything else.

Your Dakka Fex sure as hell ain't gonna make a dent in that tac squad any time soon, killing on average less than one Marine a turn! "wounding on a 6" is far from "useless", and the aforementioned power fist has the same odds of putting a wound on your 'fex as you do of killing Marine, 'cept I got more marines than you got wounds. Those extra "wounds" I call Marines, yeah again with the only "wounding on a 6", give me an edge over the 'fex in every assualt phase.

Yes, you have more marines then I have wounds.

I have more gaunts then you have marines. In whatever company you're running.

Going wound for wound against Tyranids is not the way to go. (Unless the 'nid player is running Stealer horde or Nidzilla, but both of those have different ways of dealing with things).

That said. In fourth, running a CC fex was normally looked down upon with good reason. I tried it a few times and learned why (even knowing opinion of something, I like to try it myself and see if I can get it to work). Now, I might consider it, but only due to being able to run. And its still not reliable. On the other hand, a sniper fex will still lock down tanks, possible kill them, ever turn of the game. And for fairly cheap. A Dakkafex will still reliably hit and wound almost all infantry you come across. And since 'Nids lack low AP weaponry, the standard tactic to dealing with good armor is "make them make saves until some get failed".

Even terminators eventually die if you hit them with enough shots each turn.

EDIT: By the way, a Carnifex reliably kills one marine a turn. 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound, no armor save.

Point being, you're crushing a unit in CC that wasn't meant for CC in the first place.

With rerolls to wound and hit you are reliably wounding 1.94 marines a turn. I averaged 2 dead marines a turn with dakka fexes when I ran them. Dakka Tyrants average 3 dead marines a turn.

You mean after saves, right?

Cause you should be reliably hitting with 6 shots, (4+/4+ reroll), and wounding with all of them (2+/2+ reroll).

Then he saves 2/3s.

Yep after saves

Swordbreaker wrote:

God Fex = Fex armed with just about every biomorph available (toughness 7, 5 wounds, 2+ save, regeneration, ect)...usually in the 250+ pt range

I've always considered the "God Fex" to be one maxed out for HtH, not pumped up on points. You can make a really HtH nightmare for around 150-170 points, I wouldn't want to break 200 points a Carnifex, that's called a "Point Sink".

As for the Dakka Fex, normally it's mounting dual twin-linked Deathspitters with Enhanced Senses. So that's 8 shots, hitting on a 4+ re-rolling misses and re-rolling failed to-wounds. Oh, and NO AP VALUE so yeah, all those nice bonuses and you can't even punch through 'guard armor. Way to go. Oh and by the way, you've also taken a great HtH unit and reduced it's HtH effectiveness as much as you can. I like fighting Dakka's with my Marines, especially since I still run power fists in my tac squads. 18" range means I'm only going to have to put up with getting shot by the thing once (no, I don't just sit there like an idiot and let it sit in cover and shoot at me for a few turns). If he's lucky and I'm not then I might lose a Marine. Then I go charging in because I've still got a nearly full squad of Marines with toys and you have a big nasty bug that only gets 2 attacks against me and misses 50% of the time.

Oh and no, I didn't agree with Yakface's Carnifex article in 4th and I certainly don't in 5th.

That's a funny idea ,I dont understand how could you only get shot once before your SM charge the Dakkafex, the first wave of shot should be happened at 17"-13" right? unless we are talking about new fleet SM IC here .

[quote=ED209That's a funny idea ,I dont understand how could you only get shot once before your SM charge the Dakkafex, the first wave of shot should be happened at 17"-13" right? unless we are talking about new fleet SM IC here .