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Sorcerors setup drop positions for Obliterators if necessary, otherwise just lash people into bolter range.

3 meltas per squad + 8 oblits (cause that's what the guy has model wise) should be enough to deal with tank lists.

If not, your 60 Plague Marines run around shrugging off everything anyone can toss at 'em.

Don't forget to setup aggressively!

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2500 Pts - Chaos Space Marines Roster - Ard Boyz Chaos

1 Chaos Sorceror @ 155 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Force Weapon (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Jump Pack; Lash of Submission; Personal Icon; Mark of Slaanesh

1 Chaos Sorceror @ 155 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Force Weapon (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Jump Pack; Lash of Submission; Personal Icon; Mark of Slaanesh

19 Plague Marines @ 530 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Meltagun (x2); Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle
1 Plague Champion @ [73] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Fist; Combi-melta; Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle

19 Plague Marines @ 530 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Meltagun (x2); Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle
1 Plague Champion @ [73] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Fist; Combi-melta; Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle

19 Plague Marines @ 530 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Meltagun (x2); Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle
1 Plague Champion @ [73] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Fist; Combi-melta; Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle

3 Obliterators @ 225 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

3 Obliterators @ 225 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

Total Roster Cost: 2500

Mean.

Not bad. Could also drop the 2 Oblits for a 4-man termi squad with combi-plasma if you wanted, about the same points. I hesitate to bite on such large squads of PMs - they'll stick around a while against anyone but don't have as much offensive punch as I'd like a lot of the time.

Stick around forever, you mean?

4 termies aren't bad, but why? They get 4 more plasma shots and are otherwise identical. Except the fearless thing and able to use many weapons.

Eh. I used them in my ard boyz due to lack of Oblits, and found that they were reasonably useful. I suppose the Oblits could be better in the long run.

Tough list. Just started in this hobby, and I'm building up a CSM army. It looks like a few sets of plague marines are in the horizon. Albeit the extremely distant horizon, due to financial issues...but, at least it's a goal of some sort.

Blood

Well, the Sorcerers are rather vulnerable in view of the new IC rules. If they join a squad and the squad gets assaulted, they cannot cast. If they don't join, they are dead early in the game.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the Sorcerers are rather vulnerable in view of the new IC rules. If they join a squad and the squad gets assaulted, they cannot cast. If they don't join, they are dead early in the game.

True!

Thus, I envision the army doing this:

First turn, the sorcerors jump around to get enemy units into rapid fire range of the PM units/lash formation for plasma cannon fun (using lash).

At least one oblit unit should be on the board, they move up with everyone else.

When it looks like you are going to be assaulted on a PM squad, you jump the sorcerors out of that squad and either go to another PM squad...or just fall back to an Oblit squad.

So the sorcerors are always safe.

You can torrent of fire obliterator units with sorcerors attached if you really want to, who knows you might even get a wound through to a sorceror.

What's happening with the 60 plague marines in front?

You may find that your plague marine squads are usually close enough together that you won't need jump packs to switch the sorc's around.

The would be much better served with familiars and Gift of Chaos, to Spawn enemy powerfists and characters once the plague marines get locked in combat. Spawning of powerfists means much less chance that the enemy will get a few odd wounds on you and keep you winning combat allowing the plague marines to get out of CC faster.

Those squads of Plague Marines will also suffer quite badly under opposing Plasma Cannon fire.

whitedragon wrote:You may find that your plague marine squads are usually close enough together that you won't need jump packs to switch the sorc's around.

The would be much better served with familiars and Gift of Chaos, to Spawn enemy powerfists and characters once the plague marines get locked in combat. Spawning of powerfists means much less chance that the enemy will get a few odd wounds on you and keep you winning combat allowing the plague marines to get out of CC faster.

If the list is being played right, I think anyone running hordes up will get smashed by bolter/plasma cannon fire.

Plasmas first, bolters second. You should be dead.

Nurglitch wrote:Those squads of Plague Marines will also suffer quite badly under opposing Plasma Cannon fire.

Not unless someone is lashing/tankshocking you out or using LOS tricks to negate your cover saves.

You can spread out 60 plague marines to avoid plasma cannon fire hitting more than 1 marine (without scatters, which should generally get you just 2).

Those odds aren't bad at all really--and if you've noticed, only Chaos really plays with alot of plasma cannons. Nobody else normally does.

Conversely, you can't spread out 180 Orks...and lash just makes it worse.

I'm not sure why you are avoiding the Rhinos/10 man squads. I've always found Chaos Rhinos with one extra combi-bolter to be absolutely worth it, whether in LOS blocking or moving plague marines, tank shocking or just an extra split fire.

What about dropping 2 models from each squad for 3 combi-melta equipped rhinos, its terrain if you don't have any on the board, might block los, 3 more guns, doesn't cost kp. Otherwise I like the list, it might have trouble capturing a lot of objectives with slow and purposeful, but i love the pure aggresiveness of the list, its very pure.

You can still add rhinos to squads over 10 in the chaos codex. If they give up zero KP's for 'Ard Boyz, they really are worth it. Otherwise, a 20 man plague marine squad rarely (if ever) gives up KP's.

40kenthusiast wrote:I'm not sure why you are avoiding the Rhinos/10 man squads. I've always found Chaos Rhinos with one extra combi-bolter to be absolutely worth it, whether in LOS blocking or moving plague marines, tank shocking or just an extra split fire.

Always found them to be useless.

A SM Rhino with 2 Stormbolters is IMO a far better deal as 4 shots at range x 6 is annoying.

Chaos Rhinos...not annoying.

Tank shocking Rhinos is nice, if your opponent obliges you by not immobilizing them.

whitedragon wrote:You can still add rhinos to squads over 10 in the chaos codex. If they give up zero KP's for 'Ard Boyz, they really are worth it. Otherwise, a 20 man plague marine squad rarely (if ever) gives up KP's.

Not sure why I'd want a Rhino with a combi-bolter instead of 2 plague marines.

You do realize I'm not trying to block LOS in an army like this, right?

I understand, if you block your own LOS, you can't plasma cannon spam or lascannon spam... and that defeats the purpose of this list, however, if you need to block some LOS it gives the option, also, you can run the rhino's on the side and possibly get a meltagun shot on an enemy vehicle. It creates more flexiblity, and if a unit takes enough losses to get down to 10 or less, you have a ride if you want it. Its just a thought.

Stelek wrote:

whitedragon wrote:You can still add rhinos to squads over 10 in the chaos codex. If they give up zero KP's for 'Ard Boyz, they really are worth it. Otherwise, a 20 man plague marine squad rarely (if ever) gives up KP's.

Not sure why I'd want a Rhino with a combi-bolter instead of 2 plague marines.

You do realize I'm not trying to block LOS in an army like this, right?

The LOS blocking is not as important as providing "impassable terrain" that enemy models have to move around to get to you. For example, in round 1, I used rhinos to funnel an infantry ork player so that he was only able to engage one squad of 30 in CC at a time, with the other squads stuck behind.

Uh huh.

Again, where are the lootas to prevent this?

Am I missing something or what?

Even if the lootaz destroy the rhinos, there are still two pieces of difficult terrain in front of your plague marines that the orks have to assault through, screwing up their movement a bit.

Dropping the meltaguns out of each unit practically gives you 3 rhinos.

whitedragon wrote:Even if the lootaz destroy the rhinos, there are still two pieces of difficult terrain in front of your plague marines that the orks have to assault through, screwing up their movement a bit.

Dropping the meltaguns out of each unit practically gives you 3 rhinos.

I'm a Rhino fan but not just for moveable terrain: It's a nice bonus but you could also, you know, use them to deliver the troops assigned to them somewhere. Given that, dropping the meltas seems like an awful idea since you're limiting their usefulness outside of holding an objective nobody's going to contest, working on infantry squads, etc. But the utility drops so much that I wonder why you'd want to ferry them anywhere.

20 points versus 35 is not practically.

Dropping meltaguns isn't a bright idea either.

Why you fear an Ork assault with 60 plague marines around is well beyond my comprehension.

Do you know something about the nature of the game I do not?

3 attacks base versus 2 attacks base.

Orks are 4+/5+/3+/4+.

Marines are 4+/4+/6+.

After the Orks charge, they are 4+/6+/3+/4+.

Why are you afraid of anybody who isn't a power/rending assault unit?

The one nob?! Come on.

Why you need rhinos when you can run instead is again beyond me.

So what are the weaknesses of this list? High Str power weapon units, and large templates with low ap? Large amounts of low ap guns? (only thing i can think of is war walkers)

Vindicators? Bassies? (are they ap2?) Leman Russ?

Daemons maybe if Bloodcrushers, can they get the collar of khorne?


Mechanized lists may give the list trouble, if they can whittle down the obliterators. Other Lash Lists would probably hurt as well.

high str power weapon units can do the trick...last weekend we saw a unit of burna boyz allowed to get in too close to one of these big plague marine units and it was not pretty.

Well they don't need to be AP2 if they are S8 or higher, can't FNP instant death (I didn't feel that!).

Weaknesses would be rending (with support, like stealers with acid maw or harlies with doom) and power weapons.

Hmm, but with lash, i'm guessing your hoping to keep most assault armies firmly at arms length.

The harlequins could probably make it in, but even then i don't think they'd do that well. Most harles are smallish squads, and they need rending to wound at all.

Aren't Plague marines T5, so don't they need str 10?

Plague Marines are T4(5), so S8+ is an Instant Kill. Battlecannons, for example, splat them well.

ferrous wrote:Hmm, but with lash, i'm guessing your hoping to keep most assault armies firmly at arms length.

The harlequins could probably make it in, but even then i don't think they'd do that well. Most harles are smallish squads, and they need rending to wound at all.

Aren't Plague marines T5, so don't they need str 10?

Harlies are actually pretty good IF the Plague marines are doomed.

Then all the 1-4 results when they charge can be re-rolled and more rending hits gotten.

Nurglitch answered your last question.

Can CSM get a psychic hood?