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I have become bored with red, white, black, and gold ceramite. Though I have several dioramas that run along with the squads ( a traitor guard getting run through with a chainsword, a Gears of War type bolter taking out it's frustration on a tau guy), I find myself frustrated by a relative lack of inspiration for conversions. Chaos has mutants, and everyone can have fancy bases, but I feel that my marines lack anything that makes them the angels malignant (my chapter)

(here's the fluff of the angels... read at your own peril)

The Angles Malignant are a penitent chapter, who believe that only by understanding, and subsequently destroying, the enemies of the emperor, can they understand , and subsequently destroy their inner demons.

This philosophy was gained on the streets of Plathrias, their Former home world. At that time they were a new chapter, Their first company only 50 years old, when the hives were attacked. Darkness covered their home, and for days flares of drop pods fell from the sky, as the night lords fell upon them. The first weeks were a massacre, the local PDF forces were savaged by heresy, desertion, and the unrelenting guerrilla raids by the night lords. after several months of brutal fighting, even the Fortress Monastery, still under construction, was burning. But the Angels malignant did not tire, their senses became keener, and they learned how to infiltrate deep into enemy positions, their bright armor doing nothing to hinder them. They learned to move with speed through the crowded hives, leaving behind bikes, which had difficuly maneuvering, and Landspeeders, which could neither climb, nor capture key targets, in favor of jump packs. Using stealth, guerrilla raids, they began to push back their enemies. After 12 long years of hunting, they finally removed the last of the vestiges of chaos from their planet. But the cost was great, their world lay in ruins around them, and trillions were dead. So, to a man, they left Plathrias, taking what was left of the populations in great ships, and began their wandering.

Now, 300 years later, they have regained their full strength, and have earned many laurels. They are able to employ, not only specialist space marine companies, but vast regiments of Imperial guard, who share many of the specialist qualities that the Angles malignant hold so dear. Often, these guard regiments will fight alongside the companies of the space marines, or individual squads will serve alongside their allies, complementing the fury of the Angels Malignant, with the proud guns of the Shadow of Plathrias.

In their battles, Commanders lead from the fore, commanding elite squads of assault marines in order to quickly respond to any situation. In addition, though the Angels malignant do not utilize tanks as much as other armies, (though maybe more than the Blood Ravens) Techmarines also are a common sight amongst the assault marines of the Angels. They attempt to gain first hand knowledge about alien artifices, so that new, more effective weapons may be forged. This has put them at odds with the Adeptus Mechanus on many occasions, but the aid of the Angles Malignant in gaining several precious tech templates has served to somewhat smooth the tension. The Angles' philosophies have also set them at odds with the Ordo herectus, who have tried on many occasions to organize support for their extermination. However, The strong alliances that the Angels' enjoy with both the Ordo Malleus, and the ordo Xenos has served to defeat this threat to their sovereignty. Indeed, The grey knights have a permanent station aboard the Choir of Angels the fortress ship of their chapter, and the Angels also boast a high number of permanently acquisition instructors amongst the Ordo Xenos.

The Angels Malignant are host to a huge variety of specialist, and though they are almost chapters unto themselves, they are able to fight with cohesion, whether the red and gold of the assault marines sect, the red and black of the heavy support sects, or the red and white of the tactical sects, all of the Angels Malignant work towards one goal: the extermination of the corruption in the hearts and minds of men.

(/End self centered praise of my chapter)

The only idea I can come up with, and have started to implement, is putting wings on all my assault marines, aside from that... I'm stumped

Please help

I have a few suggestions for you. . .

1. Books - The most significant difference between the chapter you described and "normal" marine behavior is that they spend a lot of time analyzing their enemies. This could probably be demonstrated by having many or all of the marines carrying books (as commonly seen on inquisitors). Altenatively they could be attended by servo-skull (or human) scribes, or could be bagging "samples" from fallen enemies. This would also tie in nicely with the "friends of the Grey Knights" theme, since books figure so significantly in the GK hearldry.

2. A unique chatper symbol - Wings are neat, but there are already a lot of chapters that use those in various forms. If you like the book concept, how about a quill pen in an ink bottle? That would make a nice tie between "study" and "angels" (involving a weapon somehow would probably be best).

3. Ordinary Human levies - These guys sound like they have a lot of human troops and attendants on hand. I'm not sure if it's acceptable from a WYSIWYG pespective, but it might be neat to add some squire-like guardsmen to accompany marines (if you can fit them on the same bases with the marines, which might be tough).

4. Space-themed bases - Your chapter is tied to something like a spaceborne city-state. Basing them on high-tech looking bases (things that look like deckplates and catwalks with protruding conduits and equipment) might help get this point across.

Dude, thanks a lot, I really like the book idea.

Also, the idea for the bases is really good, but a huge part of the chapters tactics (due to fluff, and personal experience) is based on the city fights that they were involved in early in their history. So while I will add high tech bases for some models (like DP squads) a majority of the bases are going to be covered in rubble, and things more city like.

(rant) GAHH! WHY SO MANY VIEWS BUT SO LITTLE POSTS!!!?? (/rant)

If you can pull this off, it will be amazing.

as mentioned, books and scribes are a cool idea, iron halos on backpacks/armour, you could use bionics to represent experimental tech from research on alien tech, different armour variants, pouchs/bags hanging from waists, small artifacts/curio's hanging from chains attatched to armour, a chapter symbol could be a book laid flat with a half halo rising from the pages, marines with those glass specimen jars to represent collected samples. thats about all i have for now, hope that helps

This is a rough draft of what the Command squad banner might be.

I don't really know what I would add to depict the knowledge aspect of the chapter though

And as always thanks for the comments

I've gotten lots of great advice, but I need more

The banner's skeleton got no legs. But i like the idea of giving them lots of pouches and things where they collect stuff from their enemies.

Hrm, maybe weapon swaps from other armies like eldar and tau for your characters, specials, or heavies. Vanguard vets could be equipped with howling banshee or striking scorpion swords; mount your tactical squad's heavy weapon on a Tau drone that has Imperial icons and paint it to your chapter's color scheme.

"I don't really know what I would add to depict the knowledge aspect of the chapter though"

How about a torch or flame?

owl familiars....

cool bases for educated marine:

* marble/ stone floor
* marble/stone floor with the symbol of the chapter
* stairs

As for the symbol, a Quill, or a quill and an inkwell would be great. No sword, no skull.

I have a couple of suggestiosn regarding the banner:

~Namely, try and get your hands on one of the Empire General kit's Skeleton banners. I would pop you one in the post, but I literally just lent it to my new guard in a symbolic role, and you're in the States.
~ The Symbol is difficult. You want to convey your chapter's knowledge garnering skills and reams of data, but keep the "I AM BABY EATING MARINE*" aspect to it. If you take the IABEM* out of Marine, you get Eldar. (Shields from Shruiken Cannon angries.) I jotted up a few ideas, and perhaps one something like a sword through the middle of a book (like you would put a bookmark, only more killy.) which has crossed braziers on it. The light of knowledge is reflected in the braziers and book, but the purging aspect is relayed in the Sword and the Torches.

Have fun,

~sA

Modify the skeleton's pose a little, and have it reading from an open book?

smiling Assassin wrote:I have a couple of suggestiosn regarding the banner:

~Namely, try and get your hands on one of the Empire General kit's Skeleton banners. I would pop you one in the post, but I literally just lent it to my new guard in a symbolic role, and you're in the States.
~ The Symbol is difficult. You want to convey your chapter's knowledge garnering skills and reams of data, but keep the "I AM BABY EATING MARINE*" aspect to it. If you take the IABEM* out of Marine, you get Eldar. (Shields from Shruiken Cannon angries.) I jotted up a few ideas, and perhaps one something like a sword through the middle of a book (like you would put a bookmark, only more killy.) which has crossed braziers on it. The light of knowledge is reflected in the braziers and book, but the purging aspect is relayed in the Sword and the Torches.

Have fun,

~sA

What is the empire general kit's skeleton banner?

And thanks for the idea about the sword and book idea, and I was contemplating that, until I saw the shoulder guard for some of my grey knights. I may still use it, but I would like something wholly original. The torch idea is a great one, and with those suggestions I'm thinking about adding some censer like lanterns to represent Iron halos.

We shall iluminate you with the light of knowledge, and with its holy flame, we shall purge those who have fallen into shadow



Thanks a whole lot everyone. As always, more suggestions welcome.

And I think that this is the most views I've had on a forum... 590+?!

Basically a strung up skellington in a robe with a simple shield clutched. Could be easily made into a nice place for the icon, if the Sigmarite symbol is scraped off.

~sA

Alright, so I tried greenstuff for the first time last night, should have some pictures up by tomorrow.

All I did was put a Lantern icon on the back of the commanders backpack, and put a real lantern at the end of the rope...

Tonight I'll probably fix up the GS on the commander and start putting some stuff on my landraider...

just a few ideas:


* the banner you have drawn looks great, but might look better with a scroll in 1 hand and a quill in the other.

* lanterns, scrolls, parchments, quills, all need to be common place among your army.

* since they study weapons of thier enemies i would think the odd tau flamer wouldnt go a miss in a tac squad, or an eldar missile launcher.

* i think mixing up flagnant (sp?) parts with catachin parts for the guard would give them a nice gothic feel.

*Vet's, commanders or other high ranking models should have robes covered with scroll and parchment.

* plenty of servo skulls would be very fitting.

hope some of this helps.

Thanks for the banner idea JD, I hope to have an updated banner by the weekend.

Scrolls and parchment yes, definitely, and in massive quantities, but I'm not sure how to incorporating the quills without taking away the, as Smilling assassin put it, "I AM BABY EATING MARINE!".

I've also been redesigning the bolter, trying to make it look more techy, and more assaulty, while keeping the bulky, "AHM GONNA KEEL YOU!" feel.

I'd really like to do robes, but then I'd have DA models running around.

Again, yes to the servo skulls, although again, I'm not sure how to incorporate them into the model

And yes this helps a lot thank you

I have the machining equipment to make whatever kind of bolter I want, but I'm trying to keep the design relatively simillar, just noticeably different. However, after removing the trangle piece and the weird rectangel doohiky, I'm stumped. I was thinking about adding something similar to what's on top of the scout shotgun. Again... I have no idea, just relying on those who have faithfully helped in the past

maybe this should be in the P&M blog...

i like the drum mag idea, have you thought about a box mag?
you could keep the sickle mag, but have it side mounted on the bolter, and then you can even extend it even you want to.

with the servo skulls just randomly add them, so say allocate 2-3 per unit, Sgt gets one, and the other 1-2 go to random marines.
have them on most or all official models, so chap. master, Sgt's ect.

You've already mentioned lanterns - why not mount them under the bolters' barrels? (Something like you'd expect to see on a carriage or a very early automobile - could be design to project its light all around, or just forward like a gothic version of a barrel-mounted flashlight) I expect you could find some existing laterns of the right size sold as model railroad parts or doll furniture.

Servo skulls could be made to look like they're hovering around a marine using thing wire coming from part of the marine's body or the base (I've seen a few other people here do this with various models). If the skull is a "scribe skull", it could probably be supported by trailing parchment (they tend to be depicted this way in GW artwork, although I've always thought they looked pretty awkward).

I'll second JD21290's suggestion to attach the magazine to the side of the bolter. I think that would give them a neat look, similar to a Sten gun. (Top mounted could work too - see the Bren gun) Rifle stocks, folding or fixed, could also look nice.

If you go with drum magazines, I can suggest a fairly easy technique, as along as you don't want them to be too ornate. Start with some hollow styrene tubes of appropriate diameter. Use a small pipe cutter to cut a tube of the desired length. Either cut a slice out of the top of the tube to mate it with the original clip (my preference), or cut the clip away and glue the tube on directly. Next, use a circular punch to make caps for the tube from sheet styrene. Using caps of a larger or smaller diameter than the drum itself adds some easy detail. I'm including an example of the results I've gotten from this method.

where do you get styrene?

And i'll try the side mags tomorrow, maybe that'll look cool.

As always, thanks for the advice

Most hobby shops that sell model railroad supplies seem to carry a variety of "StripStyrene" (I'm not sure if that's a product line or a company name) products and styrene sheets. There may be cheaper ways to get that kind of plastic, but this line comes in a lot of useful pre-formed shapes (thin strips, tubes, I-beam shapes, X-beam shapes, ladders, half-tubes, etc). They also usually carry the small pipe cutters you'll probably want if you're working with tubes (I find the tubes hard to cut straight by any other means).

Note: If you buy sheets, I suggest writing the thickness down somewhere, and if you buy pre-formed shapes, write down the name and dimensions or keep the bag. I just realized that I don't know the thickness I've been using for some parts that are common throughout my army (fortunately a sheet seems to go a long way when you're working on things as small as a weapon).

Dam... I don't have any model railroad shops close by...

Maybe I'll try greenstuff, pictures by sunday if everything goes to plan.

Also, are there any suggestions for the bolter, aside from magazines?

This may seem inane, but if you have any spare Chaos Smoke Launchers around, they make tremendous side-mounted scopes if you cut then down the middle. I've given that to a Pathfinder in my new guard, looks awesome and techy.

~sA

I was thinking about using toothpicks with gs on it to to make it look all special.

There's this thing that I saw where this guy sawed off the front part of some lasguns, and then stuck the front end of bolters on it. Not quite like that obviously, but it came out looking really cool.

Because it's me I'll probably feth it up royally but hey.

bump

Oh well, there's no problem in trying. And I actually would invest in getting a DA Upgrade spure or two, maybe from Battle Wagon Bitz?

Just a thought for having sergeants/Vets outfitted like they mean business, scholar style. Oh, and have a heavy preponderence of Librarians, that would help drive the issue across, while being extra super cool.

Have fun,

~sA

When I saw the new Librarian model, I was a very happy person, the book is perfect for the chapter.

Oh!! and how about horn rimmed glasses for all the guys without helmets? lol

I've been trying to figure out how to convert the other heavy weapons as well, I don't want to use weapons from the Xeno armies, as they don't have the gothic feel that is still present in my army. Are there any suggestions?