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Have yet to play test this list. Similar to green blow flys list, but I don't really care so much about beating nob bikers.

Outflanking gives me a better chance of getting into an assault faster. I think there is a good amount of AT and anti-horde, as well as a big close combat punch.
Anything extremely difficult to deal with? Changes?


Khan, Moondrakkan 205
Command Squad, Bikes, 1 Thunder Hammer, 3 PF, 4 Stormshields, Standard 385

5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 200
5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 200
5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 200

Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer 70
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer 70
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer 70

Assault Terminators, Thunder hammers and stormshields 200
LR Redeemer, Multi-Melta 250

1850 total

My best friend plays a full bike scars army, generally at 1500 points but I can make some suggestions.

First of all I don't think the sergeant can have both a PF and a combi melta. I think its one or the other as they both replace his bolt pistol so that should free up some points there. Also if he has a PF why would he then need melta bombs? Are you really going to be going up against that many land raiders or monoliths? I think the melta bombs are probably a case of overkill when it comes down to it.

Also from my experience playing against biker armies it seems to me that small bike squads are a bad choice. You are paying roughly 180 points for 5 models that granted have toughness 5 but only have a 3+ save 1 wound and no invulnerable save with 3 different sources for wound allocation. If you get three hits on that squad either the sergeant or the meltas are going to have to take a hit. Pie plates will also eat those tiny squads alive, I know this from experience. It seems to me that the full kited out bike unit offers a bit more tactical flexibility. You can keep the 9 bikes if necessary or you can split them into 2 different units. Also the attack bike option allows the unit to absorb an extra wound as well just in case.

Also as for the command squad I think you are wasting the single best ability the khan provides, namely furious charge. With all the models with PF what is the point at striking at I 5? If you give them all power weapons on the other hand I think it works much better I 5 S 5 marines with 4 attacks when charging and power weapons is terrifying. Just think about this, a 10 man IG squad gets charged by that unit and it goes first in combat against all but the Khan. There is a chance that one of those guardsmen can kill your 80 point model without it even getting an attack off. Also if I recall you cannot give the apothecary any extra wargear so you have some extra points. He is not a vet different entry on the list and therefore cannot be upgraded as such. I see the command squad as a unit that annihilates pretty much anything short of armor. I think I could be wrong that it functions best in this capacity.

I'm not personally the biggest fan of land speeders but I do see their uses. The problem I see with them is that you are giving them both an anti horde and anti tank capability, since they can't split their fire it seems a waste. Also since the land speeders don't have combat tactics and therefore it isn't replaced by the khan and they can't outflank. Attack bikes on the other hand do have combat tactics and can outflank. Maybe try using one as anti tank and the other ans anti horde?

Take these as you will and good luck. I hate t5 bike armies.

I agree with dumpling about the biker squad sizes. After buying the sarge's wep and the attack bike and all your special weapons, the few extra wounds to keep the squad alive (and still able to compete in CC) are comparatively cheap. I wouldn't combat squad them unless you need to absolutely control 5 objectives. Below that number, you can still zip across the board late-game to control objectives. He is also correct about buying the fist and combi-melta on the same guy. You can't replace a weapon more than once. Stick with the fist to tip combat res in your favor (you will have to assault much of the time, otherwise you will be assaulted a lot, considering the range at which you have to operate). Combi-weps are only really good for small, throw-away bike units, and I wouldn't take any of those until you had at least 2 beefy bike units, or unless you had a few tac squads to do the majority of your gruntwork. Bottom line is that attack bikes are a better buy for that kind of a job.

Also, about the command squad, Dumpling is right on about wasting the FC ability. I would still suggest taking at least one fist to make sure you have a way to deal with MCs and WLs, but 1-2 regular powerweapons and the company champion are definitely the way to go (champ is the cost of a powerweapon, and comes with WS5 and a combat shield free). Apothecaries can't take gear as they aren't veterans. I would also probably not take more than 2 stormshields. they are a huge point sink, and because you have turbo-boost, you will likely only really need these saves in CC. Most of the units you are going to be assaulting only have 1 model that has a powerweapon of any kind (SM sarge, exarch, Nob, etc.), and that unit generally struggles to land more than 2 hits. If you are slamming into something that generates more than 2 unsaveable wounds reliably in every round of close combat, you might have wanted to shoot it harder first. Not a hard and fast rule, but thats a decent place to save some points. IF you are regularly needing to Hack apart nob bikers or nidzilla in CC, disregard this suggestion.

Landspeeders are good filler for this list IMO. But I personally use the Typhoons. Taken with a HB, they can scoot 12" and still rip off 2 krak shots from across the board on side and rear armor, while staying out of the range of most things that can hurt them, as well as being able to close to 36" and fire off the HB and 2 frag missiles if you need to thin out some infantry (or shoot marines out of cover). They dont need to outflank; you can just put them in reserves and bring them on your table edge, near where your bikes are coming in if you desire. They are fast enough to come in on your edge and still contribute.

Chaplains on bikes are a GREAT addition to this type of army. it can either make the command bike squad a 10-wound assault unit of untimely death, OR you can split off khan and the chaplain to your line bike squads and make for 3 capable bike assault units if you need to hit multiple hotspots during a game. Can't say much about the LR with Termies, other than I have seen a lot of Khan+LR+Terminator doom lists, and I dont know that they would be able to keep up or contribute much if they got a bad outflank roll. Your mileage may vary.

That's all for now.

Why do you need to give everyone meltabombs when've already got numerous melta weapons and powerfists?

I like the flanking redeemer tho

I like the heavy bolter on the Typhoon.

I also like Khan on a bike with the command squad. A mounted chaplain works well with them as stated.

G

Here is an updated one. I will try alternating some PWs / PFs in the command squads and see which one works best. I don't really like having 90+ points tied up in each land speeder tornado, plus I don't really have the points. I'd rather go MM + HB/HF.

I don't know if the chaplain would be best riding with Khan or with the terminators. I think spreading out the killiness could help, but furious charge + rerolls is also scary. I also don't want the command squad to get blown up because it has both of my HQs in it. The units I'm willing to play around with or remove are the chaplain and land speeders. I'd like to add more bikes, but not enough points.

Khan, Moondrakkan 205
Command Squad, Bikes, 2 PW, 2 PF, 3 SS, Standard, Company Champion 340

Chaplain, Bike/Terminator Armor + Combi-Flamer 135

6 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF 220
5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF 185
5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF 185

Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer/Bolter 70
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer/Bolter 70

Assault Terminators 200
LR Redeemer, MM 250

1850 points

brado wrote:Command Squad, Bikes, 2 PW, 2 PF, 3 SS, Standard, Company Champion 340

Chaplain, Bike/Terminator Armor + Combi-Flamer 135

GOOD NEWS! I just saved oyu a few more points;

2 PW, 2 PH, and a chapmion is 1 too many. the champ comes with a free weapon, and the apothecary can't take any upgrades. this means that you have one too many weapons. that's 15/25 pts right there. You can also save 10 pts by dropping the combi-weapon off the chaplain. with the amount of super-fast short-ranged meltas you have, there is absolutely no reason to spend another 10 pts on a one-shot melta shot on a BS4 character. Thats now 25/35 pts saved.

now, find a way (beg steal or borrow) to get attackbikes in those biker squads. it's 2 more wounds (and a free wound to lose before having to take morale tests), and one more melta per squad. If you have to, drop down to 2 bike squads and make them both kitted to the gills. It's totally worth it.

Good advice. Yeah I didn't realize I added 1 too many weapons. I think I will drop land speeders since the attack bikes seem pretty nice. Updated list with 20 pts left to spare. What are some good upgrades for the LR/chappy/sergeants? Also what do you guys think about a Libby w/ gate and stormshield instead of the chaplain?


Khan, Moondrakkan 205
Command Squad, Bikes, 1 PW, 2 PF, 3 SS, Standard, Company Champion 345

Chaplain, Terminator Armor 125

5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF, Attack Bike, MM 235
5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF, Attack Bike, MM 235
5 Bikers, 2 Meltas, PF, Attack Bike, MM 235

Assault Terminators 200
LR Redeemer, MM 250

1830 Total

Librarian with gate in a bike army is like saying "I know that I can reliably move 24" in the movement phase, but I like to see if I can get myself killed anyway." It's a waste with assault terminators as well, since you are not going to be able to control where the land as well. Chaplain with assault terminators is probably his second best use overall (first being to tag onto the khan+command bikes for ultimate line-breaking). Still, can't knock his effectiveness in the termies, and it gives your 2 real nice hammer units.

Consider trading out one of the regular meltaguns in the biker units for a flamer. Not snazzy or flashy like a melta, but against horde opponents, it can be very punishing. Even against MEqs, it's still pretty brutal at times. 2 melta weapons is more than enough for most things you are going to be shooting. Bikes arent really the best unit for tank hunting since it opens them up for retaliatory fire. best left to attackbikes if thats all you need. I like kitting my reg bike squads for versatility.

You really think chappy on a bike would be better? I feel like I'm putting all my eggs in 1 basket. And if I take out 1 melta gun, shouldn't I trade out both and get 2 flamers?

2 melta guns (as opposed to 3) is generally sufficient. Dropping down to just eh milti-melta and 2 flamers could work, but I dont usually want more than one flamer hitting a unit I am about to assault anyway; either it's against tough infantry and not gonna do much, or it's against light infantry and is going to wipe them, leaving me in the open. Not a hard and fast rule, but thats my general thinking on the topic.

The termie chappy with your terminators is perfectly viable. But you get more synergy tying FC and hit and run with the chaplain's rerolls on the charge. eggs in one basket? you bet, but it's a basket of a$$kicking.

0ldsk00l wrote:eggs in one basket? you bet, but it's a basket of a$$kicking.

lol.. QFT

I like the revised list.

G

ty for the advice. almost done :p but I still have some points left


Khan, Moondrakkan 205
Command Squad, Bikes, 1 PW, 2 PF, 3 SS, Standard, Company Champion 345

Chaplain, Bike, Digital Weapons 145

5 Bikers, Flamer, Melta, PF, Attack Bike, MM 230
5 Bikers, Flamer, Melta, PF, Attack Bike, MM 230
5 Bikers, Flamer, Melta, PF, Attack Bike, MM 230

Assault Terminators 200
LR Redeemer, MM 250

1835 Total

15 Points left
A) Drop digital weapons, take 1 more biker?
B) Get a combi-flamer again on my chaplain?
C) Extra Armor for the LR?
D) something else?

option A

I too have been thinking about this squad.

My thought is

Khan on Moondrakken
apothecary
4 veterans with storm shield and lightning claw, banner
Chaplain on bike

This squad would have outflank, furious charge, FnP, hit and run, re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound.

12 attacks with claws should tear apart most units.

You can save quite a few pts going with powerweapons over claws. Depending on what you regularly fight, this should be enough (i.e. as long as you don't always play against nob bikers). If you have the pts to spare, keep the claws, but if you are slimming down, S5 powerweapns on the charge kills most anything in the game pretty effectively.

@brado: either option A (always good to have more bikes) or option C, as you need that raider to be as reliable as possible. Alternately, you can get the LRC, as (I dont have my book in front of me) IIRC it have extra armor for free.

0ldsk00l wrote:You can save quite a few pts going with powerweapons over claws.

Don't power weapons and lightning claws both cost 15pts.

Think they are 25 pts. but as I said, i dont have my book in front of me atm, so maybe someone else can confirm. if oyu are already paying 15 pts for SS's, and the claws ARE 15 pts afterall, then it's a win-win. otherwise, it seems pretty darn expensive to me.

Just talked to someone and a single lightning claw costs 15 points cause to get two it costs 30pts total.

ye 2 is 30 and 1 is 15

good. then if you are already paying for the SS, and losing the bonus attack, then there is no reason not to take claws. nice catch.

I probably wouldn't take 4 with that weapon combo, as I'd want a fist in there somwhere to make sure I can hammer down MCs and such, and the company champion as WS 5 with a free pwep is too good of a buy by himself. Not to mention they all lose one attack for that combo. But 2 such-equipped bikers is nice, especially as it means that you aren't giving up 4 attacks in the unit, merely 2. Also, most things you come across aren't likely to put more than 2 unsaveable wounds on your bikers at any given initiative step (and much of the time, they will be allocating swings to your characters as well). Notable exceptions exist, but unless you expect to fight them often, You may be better off splitting the difference.

Good call on the LCs. Makes them way killier.

I like the list, but will 15 bikes be enough to win objective based missions? It doesn't seem like a ton of stuff for your opponent to kill before he's removed its ability to hold an objective. Maybe consider dropping a Bike Squad for a unit of cloaked scouts or tac squad with a transport?

Yeah with outflank and turbo boost I think it's fine. The really shooty units will be tied up in combat with the CC units, letting my bikes run around pretty safely.

Here's the final list:

Khan, Moondrakkan 205
Command Squad, Bikes, 1 LC, 2 PF, 3 SS, Standard, Company Champion 345

Chaplain, Bike 135

6 Bikers, Flamer, Melta, PF, Attack Bike, MM 255
5 Bikers, Flamer, Melta, PF, Attack Bike, MM 230
5 Bikers, Flamer, Melta, PF, Attack Bike, MM 230

Assault Terminators 200
LR Redeemer, MM 250

1850 Total

I may have missed this disucssion before but have you considered giving the Chappy Terminator armor instead of a Bike and running him with the Assault Terminators? They'll hit awefully hard with the Chappy giving them rerolls.

How do you think you'll fare against Horde style armies? You've got the templates from the Redeemer but thats really it as far as weapons that can deal with large enemy units. I'm not sure if your bikes will hit hard enough to chew through 100+ Orks or something similar.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just asking questions to help my understanding of the army and/or perhaps provide something new for you to think about. I actually really like the list.

I'm not sure but I imagine the CC units will have a pretty easy time against hordes by making them break, and the bikes will be able to fire bolters into them without fear of getting charged. And I think the increase in dmg the chappy gives to the command squad is better than the increase in dmg to the terminators.

I think you should upgrade to extra armor on the Land Raider, that way you can make sure you deliver those Termies where they're going unhindered by annoying can't move results from the damage table.

I wish you could find more points to get a second assault weapon in those bikes units too. I'm not sure what to drop to find those points though.

list looks better than before good luck with it. Also if you find your scoring units aren't being to effective try fielding 2 larger units and check your results. As a side note I hate the khan's command squad with a burning passion. Its sooo terrifying!!

I'd say definitely give it a few tries and see what works for you and what doesnt so much. It's got a pretty solid core there, so the only major changes at this point would probably be taste/style changes. just remember to use bike's speed to work the LOS to your advantage. in objective missions, shepherd the bikes carefully and pounce the objectives on turn 4 or 5. make him have to stand on them, and take the punishment for doing so until then.