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MoF 100
+ Bike w/ Power Weapon 150

Khan on a Bike 205


elites

Iron Clad Dreadnought , Drop Pod w/ Deathwind, LB 205

Dreadnought w/ Multi Melta " " 195

Iron Clad Dreadnought " " 205


Troops

9 man space marine bike squad w/ 2 melta guns, P.F. 260

9 man " " 260 + Attack bike w/ Multi Melta, P.W. 335

9 man w/ " " 260

Fast Attack

2 Multi Melta Attack Bikes 100

H. Support

Dreadnought w/ Asscannon w/ Xtra Armour + deathwind Drop 195

Dreadnought w/ Multimelta " " 185

Dreadnought w/ " " 195





Pretty Self Explanatory; Khan and the MOF + 5 Man with P.W. sergeant from one squad form a h to h attack squad. A MoF has base attacks 2 + 1, + 2 from his Servo Giving him 3 attacks that ignore armour and 2 that are str 8 ; Khan has 4 attacks w/ 6 being a instant death , Sergeant has 3 power weapon attacks, so when charging with the 5 man you have 8 Str 5 attacks, 13 str 5 P.W. attacks , 2 STr 8 P.F. attacks, add in that of those 5 the Techmarine has 1 plasma , 2 melta guns w/ that squad, plus all of the rapid fire and its a pretty nasty little group of people.

Total Meltas in the army 8, Multi Meltas 2, 2 Assault Cannons,

The fact is the entire army can ignore the entire first turn of the game if they want. Add in 6 Deathwind Missile launchers. You can take five man squads and assault objectives. Or land a Dreadnought w/ a Drop Pod on it.

The entire army either has Toughness 5; or Armour Value of 12 or higher. Add in you can spend your first turn Turbo boosting your entire army to a flank.


Anyway what do you think?

Proclaiming something unbeatable in this forum tends to attract flames instead of contructive criticism.

Just a heads up.

How is it unbeatable?

It's 6 dreadnaughts and some bikes at ard boyz points level. I don't even think I'd go so far as to call it cheesey..

1) Assault cannons aren't worth it this edition.
2) MM attack bikes should be run as their own unit so they can target tanks while your bikes go after infantry.

Other than that, it looks alright, its got some scoring units, has a few dreads to provide tank issues, couple melta guns for tank hunting.

I think you've got a ways to go until you hit the unbeatable or even cheesy stages though.

I like it. It could table a lot of armies including nob bikers. It might run Into a challenge versus melta heavy armies and mobile armies.

G

Will be crushed by shooty eldar of either breed.

I'd break the bikes down into smaller units of 5 or 6 and run the attack bikes as singles. This way you have more scoring units and more flexibility.

I mean, it looks solid, but by no means unbeatable.

It is neither cheesy nor unbeatable. Looks good.

The next time I post an army list on this forum I'll have to proclaim it unbeatable. At least then I'll get a response, even if it is just a bunch of people trying to prove me wrong.

Not what I expected from an "unbeatable" list...it's an interesting idea, with some unique tactical options.

Show me a list that could beat it as it has a soluetion for pretty much each major 2500 point army.




If you try to swwarm it then you can just set up normally leavy your dreads in the front and drop empty drop pods on turn one into your oppenments deployment.




Seer council? OH NOES .

2 10 man nob bikers? Hope you like dreadnoughts. Ironclads beat the dog piss out of them . Sure they may hurt or eventually destroy one ,but their still gonna have to roll.


Swarm ? Deathwinds eat that up. Espeically empty ones

Nob Shooter squads ? Outflaninking

Shooty eldar? What are you going to shoot at ? when the entire army drops in and can outflank ? Marine Player goes second; uh okay well I am going to drop some empy drop pods in your deployment zone. My dreadnoughts can stay in reserve. Every bike squad can outflank.


Landraider spam? Two turns of shooting and the precious landraiders are dead. That's not counting being able to turboboost. Hope you can kill 14 bikers and 6 dreadnoughts.


OH NOES BLOODCRUSHERS !!!!! Hope you like dealing with bikes and dreadnoughts


Post something and Ill tell why that army will spank it around like a circus monkey. Oh and as a added bonus the army is pretty cheap to build and alter for 2000 points.

Go home. You're just another troll posting flames to solicit replies to his post. Plenty of lists will deal with this with ease, especcially the lists you listed above, nob biker, eldar jet councils.

Your army will come in piecemeal. You have no anti-psychic, you have no anti-deepstrike.

Dual lash will slap this thing in and out of terrain willy nilly while, while the oblits spank your small amount of armor. Add to this you've got nothing to get plague marines to die, minus the aforementioned short lived dreads, and its a sad day.

A horde army fearing a couple ordnance templates on an immobile vehicle with bad bs and weak armor? Really?

Land raider spam with 7 land raiders shooting 14 TL lascannons at 6 dreadnaughts is going to have problems? You've got 5 multimeltas and 6 meltaguns, and will have to deliver all of them and do good damage in order to take out 7 land raiders before all of your guns are neutralized.

Dreadnaughts beating the "dog piss" out of nob biker? You have 2 attacks, since you're getting charged. You'l hit once, wound once, he'll get a 5+ save. Then you'll take 12 or so str 8 attacks and 4 str 10 attacks back. All of your dreads combined wouldn't deal with a single nob biker squad.

The list is mediocre, deal with it.


Edit: I like how your answer of how you'll deal with eldar jetbike seer council is just "OH NOES". Considering you have no volume of fire, I'd certainly be saying "OH NOES" to a faster moving opponent, with a 3+ rerollable, and 3 str 9 attacks each on your armor in combat.

I think OH NOES is actually a fairly apt description of what you should feel if you're trying to run 6 dreadnoughts against 2 seer councils.

Scoring.

Enough bodies will be able to perpetually bog down walkers in CC. With one body amoungst that crowd with a PF or PK & its looking bleak. Hope to win combat.

At that high a point game.. you can start to do alot of things.. at 2500, well those nobz.. im sure you could easily do 3-4 squad which can (Id say) multi charge two dreds & bring it down (per squad.. but everyone please dont go into the finer details as its not the point)

Other armies can outflank too. Dual autarch eldar.. @ 2500pts.. kitted out war-walkers for one. Its just so many points.

Accomplish the same idea at lower points to prove its an effective idea.

My 2500 chaos marine list would shred that in a heartbeat.

First of all, you know deathwinds can't fire the turn they arrive, right? Deepstriking vehicles count as moving at flank speed, so you can't fire the deathwinds. You can't hold back the drop pods in reserves [half arrive first turn always] so you'll be doing what, dropping easy to kill immobile open-topped vehicles in range of my meltas, with zero support because the rest of your stuff is in reserves? mmk.

And put your dreads in reserves, PLEASE. Whenever they arrive [whenever that is] they'll have to hoof it across the whole board. I can just ignore them and eat their assault cannon spatterings as they trundle forward.

Those that make it, I'll just send daemon princes after them. They like dreadnoughts.

I've got enough doomsirens to make your bikers fall apart in a few measly turns. It really would be pretty sad. And I've got some... let's see.... 24 meltaguns and 4 plasmaguns. I think I've got your vehicles and bikes covered.

Spellbound wrote:
Deepstriking vehicles count as moving at flank speed, so you can't fire the deathwinds.

Cruising speed. There is no flank speed, so please don't confuse everyone. you are still right about not being able to fire. It's generally a terrible option for droppods, and a waste of 20 pts. Especially since most people use the pods as LOS blocking terrain. just gives your opponent even more reason to blow the pods up before they can fire, and as an immobile opentopped vehicle, all it takes is a 2+ on the damage roll to silence the DML.

3 full strength bike squads is too light for 2500. You need more scoring units. it works fine for 1750 and 2k, but at those lvls, most people will outnumber your scoring units too much. add in that your bikes are going to be doing a lot of the work on the table, and you will see them overtaxed for objective capping at 2.5k.

Never take powerweapons on biker sarges. they GIVE UP their only CC weapon to take the powerweapon or fist. might as well get the fist since you are losing attacks. The MoF is a pisspoor CC character. give him a beamer or leave him home. Try a bike mounted command squad. they can get a lot of killyness on them for their pt value, especially if Khan rides along. 6 dreadnaughts isnt that strong of a gimmick. Too many things can deal with them in CC too easily. They are solely a support option.

This isn't cheesy. I have run a similar list in the past (minus the dreds and MoF), and it's effective, but needs careful nursing to stay alive. Get real good at judging distances.

Most people completely ignore droppods especially when a Ironclad is in front of it or behind it for cover. That's kind of the whole point also armour 12 is not bad if someone wants to waste shots at a drop pod go for it.



Although I am thinking of dropping three dreadds and taking 2 Sternguard.

Now the trick is to get a game with someone who plays 2500.

I don't see how this army could dent 2500 points worth of Ork Boyz with rokkit launchas and PK nobs.

Space Marien bikes do very well against Ork Boys simply because they an not only iniate a charge but reduce a 30 man mob with twinlinked bolter fire previous to that charge .


My main issue with people using bikes is that they do not consider them for close combat. Which they excell at with basic troops their going to beat them each time.


You move 12 up toward a 30 man bike ork mob. you have 18 STR 4 AP5 shots that reroll misses.
You chage you have with 9 man squad 1120 Str4 attacks that hit on 4 and wound on 4w

Don't think of bikes having 12 attacks on a charge their going to have more damage or kill potential.

That said a bike army would spank the crap out of basic orks.


So what you have when charging large mobs is 18 shots that reroll misses then an additional 20 attacks tha. Your orks are going to need 6 to wound the bikes.

Here's the breakdown: Horde orks, an ork mob costs HALF what any one of your bike squads does, so anytime you charge one, expect a second squad charging you in the following turn. They have 6 squads of 30 to your 3.

They'll also always be fielding kff mek's for a cover save.

9 bikes, 18 shots, 9 hits, 13.5 after TL
6.75 wounds, then they save 1/3rd due to the KFF mek. You've killed 4 orks.

You charge.

9 Bikes, 18 attacks. 9 hit, 6 wound, lets say 6 dead orks.

Now they have 10 dead orks.

Coming back at you....

20 orks, 2 base, 1 for 2 CC (if its a slugga boy, and im assuming it is since you didnt include them firing at you).

60 attacks, 30 hits, 5 wounds. 1.5 dead bikes.

Plus 3 attacks baseon the nob, hits 1.5, wounds 1.5, another dead bike (power klaw).

Youve lost 2-3 bikes, he's lost 10 boys. He's at 20 boys, he is still fearless, he loses another 7 or so boys.

You're at 6-7 bikes, He's still at 13 boys and a nob. But now its his turn, and he charges you with that other mob I mentioned earlier.

Posting in an epic thread.

Also,



Good job, OP. A tip of my hat to you.

I have a new appreciation for bike squads.

G

Bunker wrote:Posting in an epic thread.

Also,



Good job, OP. A tip of my hat to you.

bunker ftw.

All I see is another marine list with too many upgrades, no focus, and about 1750 points worth of good in a 2500 point list.

Unbeatable? I'll believe it when you can prove it. (good luck!)

It's also worth noting that any good ork list would kill this because the bikes suck against Killakanz, which lots of people are takingg6-9 of now. Sure, dreads are "better than killakanz" but dreads SUCK when vs 30 orks with a powerklaw nob or some nobz.

Well they actually dont suck that much at al. Against a MC, a PK/PF type weapon in a mob will spell doom for it as its wounds will rapidly get chewed through via hordes of weak attacks (unless thier too weak) and that occaional strong power attack.

Against a dred, that lone PK pens on 5's, glances on 4's & then on the damage table you need 5 or 6's to remove thed dred. Otherwise it stays there. Rip off the arm & its alot less scary, granted. Reduce it to 1A & yep, its not soo good.

A dred charging in after a h.flamer/mm burst is liable to kill a few orks (More so if its a ironclad with dual H.flamers) but then ideally you'd want other things supporting the dreds in either ranged fire or in CC.

You also have to consider other armies than orks, in that many points, imagine 3 decked out Carnifex's charging at a bike squad, as space marines i've had bikers get smashed up by ONE decked out melee carnifex. I've never played against necrons, but i bet the nightbringer along with backup melee would give youre bikers trouble. also consider tau. in a 2500 point army, i would prolly run a Railhead fully upgraded and 2 full broadside teams, 10S AP1 would pick off a decent number of bikers along the way, and since you cannot consolidate into melee anymore, if you rush in and melee a squad up, i can turn most of my army, including markerlights, into your bikers. And depending on terrain, 2-3 crisis squads with plasma rifles and fusion blasters could JSJ and out manauever you over walls, ruins, buildings, etc. i could see the average tau army at 2500 points having 4-5 railguns or more, and upwards of 8 or so fusion blasters, those would make short work of your dreadnaughts should you drop them near the enemy. In capture objective, if you leave some bikers back to hold an objective, how would you handle a ton of kroot outflanking behind your main forces biker charge.

And back to orks, at 2500, i wouldnt be surprised to see 180 boyz, with nobz w/ PK's, 180 boyz would be 1080 points, 60 points for nobs, 150 for PK's, 1290 points, for that many boyz would be a pretty solid main force at 2500 IMHO, then the orks still have over 1k points to take their hq, anti vehicle, some kans perhaps, so on. And from personal experience, Dreadnaughts SUCK very much against orks. to begin with, ork vehicles are pretty low armor as it is, dreads are a bit overkill, and ork boyz mobs would shred them. Ork mob charges your dread, you get 2 attacks, 1 hits, chances are it will wound and kill one boy, nob attacks, 5 PK attacks on a charge, 2-3 hit S9, 3 is glancing 4-6 penetrating, and if that doesnt kill it, next turn you'll get 2 attacks again, and the nob will get 4 S8 attacks, A single Dreadnaught can never win a melee with an ork mob unassisted, if the game is at max 7 turns lets say you get the charge, at max you can do 15 kills over 7 turns, orks are still fearless. Think about that when you drop the pods behind an ork line.

Also on the opposite of orks, think about imperial guard, if you actually know someone who plays them, they just fill your path with gaurdsmen and pummel you with lascannons, basilisk rounds and other heavy weapons. I played a proxy army of IG once, 3 basilisks with inderect fire are pretty imposing as long as luck isnt on your side

Think about all those and see if your army can handle situations like that, if it cant you should revise the list and try to make it better

RedFloyd90 wrote:, nob attacks, 5 PK attacks on a charge, 2-3 hit S9, 3 is glancing 4-6 penetrating, and if that doesnt kill it, next turn you'll get 2 attacks again, and the nob will get 4 S8 attacks

quick correction, the nob with a PK only gets 4 attacks on the charge and 3 on subsequent turns. The PK doesn't give +1 attack unless he's got two of 'em (see BRB).

I would start with all the SM dredds on the table and assault ork units en masse.

G