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What does a Eldarzilla list look like and how does it work? Does a farseer go with it? Is it a viable army to field? How do opponents counter them?

Farseer - 85
Fortune

Avatar - 155

10 - Wraithguard - 396
Warlock, Enhance, Spiritseer

10 Dire Avengers - 287
Exarch, Extra SC, Bladestorm, WaveSerpent, EML, Star Engines

10 Scorpions - 327
Exarch, Scorp claw, Wave serpent, EML, Star Engines

1 Wraithlord - 125
Wraithsword, EML

1 Wraithlord - 125
Wraithsword, EML


Taken from Shade3413 on Warseer. He got some criticism and later modified it to this:

Farseer - 85
Fortune

Avatar - 155

10 - Wraithguard - 396
Warlock, Enhance, Spiritseer

10 Dire Avengers - 272
Exarch, Extra SC, Bladestorm, WaveSerpent, EML

8 Scorpions - 175
Exarch, Claw, Shadow Strike

5 Fire Dragons - 217
Exarch, Crack Shot, Wave serpent, EML

1 Wraithlord - 100
Wraithsword

1 Wraithlord - 100
Wraithsword


Which apparently still wasn't perfect, but I don't know Eldar that well.

Well stright off you want 3x Wraithlords.

If your really content on running them into CC give them a wraithsword & shuriken cannon. The latter makes use of its multi-slot fire platform & its not expensive.

Always run them except the charge turn where you start firing the shuri cannon.

Ive not had first-hand experience with the wriathguard but I think you can get them to confer a 50% concealed (i.e 4+ cover) to the wraithlords. Ive checked & along as you dont model the wraithlord on his tippy-toes.. you should get that 4+ cover. Oh the wraithguard squad w/ coneal & a fortune farseer for best results.

The avatar cries for hordes of guardains to accompany him, preferably storm guardains.

If you wanna mix mech-eldar with eflzilla then fine but YMMV

I'd take as a core 2 Wraithlords, 3 Warwalkers, Eldrad, and Avatar.
Add 2 DA squads, 1 Pathfinder unit, and a Harlie unit for counter-strike.

The basis for the army is that you take a few specific things:

1) A unit of 10 wraithguard with a spirit seer warlock (which makes them count as troops). You will want to give the warlock conceal to help them out if they get shot at by low ap weapons

2) A farseer with fortune. He goes in with the wraithguard and makes them well neigh invulnerable.

3) An Avatar

4) 3 dreadnaughts with wraith swords

The general idea is that everything in the army is T6 or T8. The rest of the army can be composed of whatever you want (quins seem to work well with it). The battlefield plan is to just move forward in a large wave with the wraithguard leading the way. Everything runs till you start getting to short range, then you can slow down to open up with whatever weapons are handy. If you end up in hand to hand, everything piles in (and hopefuly you have some hand to hand units in addition to your zilla base). Since everything has such a high toughness and good armor saves, enemies tend to struggle with hurting your units. The super resiliant wraithguard are also troops so they can hold objectives. All in all it seems like a sound army to me.

That list blows. I'm sorry.

G

I've seen it fielded as:

3x WL

3x 10 WG with SS with enhance

Eldrad

Guardian filler depending on how you arm the WL

If you ever see a wraithlord with a sword you know its a display or its someone that has no Idea how to play eldar....

HQ:

Avatar = 155pt
farseer w/ fortune = 85pt (joins the wraithguard)

Troops

10 wraithguard =391
spiritseer w/ destructor


10 Guardians w/ Scatter =136
Spiritseer, w/ destructor

10 storm guardians w/ 2 flamers = 127
warlock w/ destructor


11 storm guardians w/ 2 flamers = 133pt
spriritseer w/ destructor

Hvy

Wraithlord 2 x Flamer, EML, BL = 155
Wraithlord 2 x Flamer, EML, BL = 155
Wraithlord 2 x Flamer, EML, BL = 155

Total: 1500

Why not give the Wraithguard Spiritseer Conceal? It would support their already terrifying survivability even more, no?

Green Blow Fly wrote:That list blows. I'm sorry.

G

How deliciously constructive and conductive to discussion. Troll.

Many of the above lists can be very rough to deal with in casual play. In more competitive play, it's often simple to simply distance yourself from the largely slow moving army and hit 'em with whatever viable firepower you have.

1) A unit of 10 wraithguard with a spirit seer warlock (which makes them count as troops). You will want to give the warlock conceal to help them out if they get shot at by low ap weapons

Eldarzilla should rely on Wraithlords and the Avatar. A large unit of Wraithguard is not mandatory.
A well equipped Farseer or Eldrad is vital in such a list, fortuning the Avatar if necessary and dooming an enemy unit.

Ive been thinking.. are the wraithguard models big enough to confer a cover-save to wraithlords?

cervidal wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:That list blows. I'm sorry.

G

How deliciously constructive and conductive to discussion. Troll.

I didn't even notice the little "ignored post" thing until you went and quoted him...

Razerous wrote:Ive been thinking.. are the wraithguard models big enough to confer a cover-save to wraithlords?

I think they are big enough.
But the tactics of walking death is questionable. There are fast moving units out there that can tie up WG and kill them via high strength power weapons.

The tactic you'd use with that in mind is to keep the WL in cover until things start to be able to charge but that leaves you 2-3 turns with a 4+ cover against those dreaded lascannon types. Then you simple have the Lord infront of the guard to recieve (the forward facing.. damn those outflankers) assaults.

With that in mind.. the wraithguard will be running until thier within 12".. so the lords will be running too, so the sword could be a very good call but complemented with a scatter laser/shuriken cannon once it stops. The problem with WS4 on a wraithlord is that is few attacks might not amount to much but with a re-roll.. death = MOAR.

Well, if you want to implement the 'walking death' tactics, then a good counterstrike unit is mandatory.
Harlies are perfect in this role as they cannot be directly targeted if deployed properly prior to the counter strike.

I don't have any of my lists handly, but I ran a similar design to this a while ago. I called it the Ultraman list because Wraithlords remind me more of Ultraman then Godzilla....

anyhoo....

My list was Eldrad

10 Wraith with the Warlock with Conceal.

Maugan Ra

3 Wraithlords with BL and ML.

2 unitsof 3 jetbikes, with Warlock with Destructor.

10 WarpSpiders

Using Eldrad, you made the Wraithguard near invulnerable, and guided the Warp Spiders. You also moved the Wraithlords over to a safe flank and made them a long range firing base, taking down vehicles. the WarpSpiders would jump back and forth shooting up units, Maugan Ra would be joined to the Wraithguard to provide long range mobile firepower and then close combat punch.

I ran this list in 4th edition and did very well with it, but it is a very finesse army. Too many SAFH that took out the WL's. But the WG, Maugan Ra,Eldrad,WarpSpider mobile firebase worked wonderfully. Maugan Ra now in close combat is not as good, because you can no longer clear the kill zone and take no hits back.Still...now that you can run, I think joining Yriel might be a good option...have him escorted by the WG, then run over and pop the eye...

wuestenfux wrote:Well, if you want to implement the 'walking death' tactics, then a good counterstrike unit is mandatory.
Harlies are perfect in this role as they cannot be directly targeted if deployed properly prior to the counter strike.

In terms of a eldarzilla list, were talking about (warwalkers &) wraithlords where a harlie model, not matter how jump she is wouldnt cover 50% of a wraithlord - its just too big.

You spend 515 pts for an avatar & 3 120pt WL's, maybe up to 80pts for more 3 eml war walkers instead of a WL. Leaves you plenty of points for troops but getting a coversave for the lords seems fairly important but is it worth 400-500pts + ?

Well, Wraithlords are very tough so that if you run three of them, getting cover saves is not really a big issue. Let them go down. They don't score and the enemy will waste a lot of shoots to kill them.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, Wraithlords are very tough so that if you run three of them, getting cover saves is not really a big issue. Let them go down. They don't score and the enemy will waste a lot of shoots to kill them.

Good point. Going by that, a player should really utillize some mechenised troops otherwise the odd lascannon that most armies field will have nothing better to shoot at.

Razerous wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, Wraithlords are very tough so that if you run three of them, getting cover saves is not really a big issue. Let them go down. They don't score and the enemy will waste a lot of shoots to kill them.

Good point. Going by that, a player should really utillize some mechenised troops otherwise the odd lascannon that most armies field will have nothing better to shoot at.

Indeed, the enemy has to think twice if he shoots the Serpents loaded with Fire Dragons or the Wraithlords.
Fire Dragons are vital in this list as they are much more reliable than Wraithlords w/ brightlances to pop tanks. Long range anti-tank weapons lost an edge in the 5th ed, thanks to cover saves and the new armor penetration table.

Aren't aspect warriors counter productive to the theme of this army?

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Aren't aspect warriors counter productive to the theme of this army?

G

No, elite units are necessary in each Eldar army.
Harlies for counter-strike in a hammer & anvil force and Fire Dragons for anti-tank.

Clthomps wrote:If you ever see a wraithlord with a sword you know its a display or its someone that has no Idea how to play eldar....

I'll disagree with that.

I frequently run wraithlords with swords. When you only have 2 base attacks, making the most of them with rerolls is important if you don't want to be stuck in a melee forever. They're also dirt cheap that way. 110 points for the sword and a shuricannon, which means you can take 3 for the cost of 2 with the more typical BL+ML loadout. Or even more budget, forgo the shooting entirely and go with just the sword. It eliminates the temptation to stop and shoot, and instead lets me run them to keep up with my seer council (which has either been delivered via waveserpent or jetbike or a smaller warlock unit which is fleeting up the field), and stay with the the running avatar and wraithguard. And the sooner they stuck into melee in order to prevent them from being shot by every melta, plasma and lascannon, the longer they tend to last overall.

In fact, in my eldarzilla lists, I sometimes run 3 with nothing but swords. For 100 points I can tie up a 200+ point unit for 3-4 turns while the rest of my army focuses on the units most dangerous to my list. 2 or 3 fairly reliable attacks also lets me abuse the No Retreat rule to break free any units of wraithguard which have gotten stuck in a combat that will take them forever to win.

And honestly, if you're running wraithguard as troops and warlocks/seer councils as your second HQ or rounding things out with fire dragons, you've already got lots of anti-tank answers. You don't need a few more brightlances or missile launchers.

-DaR

I think elf-zilla is really cool but I would go with a total fluff army... all WG and WL lead by Yriel and a farseer to boot.

G

It is fluffy. But WG is a point sink and only effective at short range. The army needs counter-strike units and anti-tank. WL can fill both roles.

Counter-assualt should be done by storm guardains & lots of them. 20 man teams made fearless with enhance.

The wraithguard are soo crazy expensive why not invest in your (second after defender) cheapest infantry choice?

Storm guardians are fluffy for Iyanden.

G

Storm Guardians are poets and philosophers. They should stay home when an army goes to war.

I'd prefer Harlies as they can't be targeted and so are hard to decimate by the enemy.

wuestenfux wrote:Storm Guardians are poets and philosophers. They should stay home when an army goes to war.
I'd prefer Harlies as they can't be targeted and so are hard to decimate by the enemy.

A much better idea really. The whole purpose of the elfzilla army is to make an army that is (mostly) immune to small arms fire. You do that buy taking T6 wraithguard, T8 dreadnaughts, and anything else (like quins) that is more or less not going to be affected by small arms shooting. This could include some units in wave serpents or pathfinders sitting in the back field, but guardians (particularly short ranged storm guardians) do not fit this role and thus should be left out of the army. Putting them in just gives your opponent a good targeet to shoot his bolters at.