Mechenised Eldar 1500pt

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**Razerous**

Tis my take on how to stick eldar in vehicles and make em do good.

Hq: Farseer
+Fortune
+guide
+spirit stones = 125

Troops:
10x guardains
+ EML
+Waver serpent
+TL-eml
+spirit stones
+shuriken cannon - Lazerous pattern (See what I did thar!1) = 240

11 guardains
+2x Flamers
+Lazerous pattern serpent = 240

5x Dire avengers = 60

Elites:
5x Wraithguard +Warlock (=210)
+Destructor
Or 6x Warlocks
+2x Destructor
+Embolden
+Enhance ( = 196)
+2x SS N.b- Its a dissimiliar unit thus allowing wound allocation protection on the farseer/enhance warlock etc.

+Lazerous pattern serpent mk.2 = 365 (was 425.. dont know how?)
(+star engines)

Heavy support:
Fire prism
+Holofields = 140

Fire prisms
+Holofields
+spirt stone = 150

Falcon
+holofields
+EML
+spirit stones = 180

Edited: Changed guardie squad & Added in Seer council suggestions

Troops stay inside if theres any threat of a decently mobile force.. otherwise they start the game shelling things. The dire avengers never leave thier serpent. I can fire lotsa fire with the EML plasmas and shuriken/pulse lasers. Defensive weapon usage is the idea here.

Ahh silly me.. I originally had the wraithguard in the falcon but they can easily be put in the avengers serpent and vice versa.
5 wraithguard.. killy. Hardy. Not a massive point sink. bs4 with such awesome weapons bothered me so Guide woo. They provde the anti AV14/TEQ's/MC's punch. Thats why the falcon can sit there and fire everything at str 8 at vehicles happily or move and go for infantry. Likewise AV13 = fireprims, brightlances are just as effective. Hence why I dont need em.

One question is - will a fortuned waveserpent travelling between 24"-36 (extra 12 in the shooting phase) to gain me my 4+ cover that becomes re-rollable, along with the stones & energy-field rule be a survivable enough wraithguard delivery system?

I probably want C&C but what does it actually mean aside from Command & Conquer (Long live!)

**Mensla Khaine**

IMO, wraithguards are too expensive for what they can do and because they have such short range and no support in assault they will die quickly from taking too many saves. I recommend using shining spears because for the same points cost and a little bit more, you have t4 st 6 power weapons on charge. They can turbo boost therefore getting 3+ cover saves. Include an exarch and you can get st8 power weapon on charge as well.

Now let's do the math here: 5 wraithguards = 5 shots/turn. 4 shining spears + 1 exarch = 5 shots within 6 inches per turn + 11 power weapon hits in assault. It's a no brainer.

**wuestenfux**

Frankly, I don't like it.
Guardians are too vulnerable when they (have to) disembark.
Moreover, Wraithguard is too expensive for what they can achieve. I'd take a unit of Fire Dragons in a Serpent for anti-tank.
As the army is fully mech, it should include an Autarch able to improve reserve rolls.

**Razerous**

Hmm.. Fire dragons. 5 for 80pts. 8 for 128 and 10 for 160pts. Add in somwhere between 17 and 32pts for the exarch & powers. I can save myself 20-110pts.

Fortuned T6 3+ (Possibly 5+ cover) compared against fortuned t3 4+ seems a bit feeble.

Im over 60pts. Somhow too. Thats because my wraithguard are over-priced..

I havent got any assault elements in this army so why Do I need to stand with pittfully weak shinning spears? I get the same point-cost model that cant be transported and will cost another 30pts to get fortuned and have an inferior T3.

The wraithguard will be going against things they can easilly kill or prime targets. Thier mobile enough to do so. Shinning spears are rubbish against a monolith/landraider. These guys rock quite alot.

Guardains being weak. Thier always weak. Thier cheap.. I could spend 20pts more getting some DA's and 30pts more making those 10 effective. Guardains can chill-out in thier serpent. They dont need to get out (the dire-avengers never will if It can be helped) and like I said before, they can start the game pumelling opponents then hop in and let the serpent take over. Im worried about hordey armies & if I have enough fire-power.. but I guess the prisms help with this.

Im not convinced dragons are uni-laterallery more effective for the points I could be saving.

Oh oh.. Guardains are really weak.. wraithguard are silly-strong... Its some nice counter-pointing! Somhow.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

wuestenfux wrote:Frankly, I don't like it.
Guardians are too vulnerable when they (have to) disembark.
Moreover, Wraithguard is too expensive for what they can achieve. I'd take a unit of Fire Dragons in a Serpent for anti-tank.
As the army is fully mech, it should include an Autarch able to improve reserve rolls.

I definitely second including an Autarch as my reserves rolls ALWAYS need help... And as a rather new eldar player I find the guardians to be (obviously) vulnerable in small squads. I'm running 14 or more with a warlock and for whatever reason I find they're much harder to break in either H2H or ranged when you get up past 10. Sure you can't transport them, but wouldn't you rather be transporting Fire Dragons or Banshees anyways?

**Razerous**

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
I definitely second including an Autarch as my reserves rolls ALWAYS need help... And as a rather new eldar player I find the guardians to be (obviously) vulnerable in small squads. I'm running 14 or more with a warlock and for whatever reason I find they're much harder to break in either H2H or ranged when you get up past 10. Sure you can't transport them, but wouldn't you rather be transporting Fire Dragons or Banshees anyways?

No. Neither score. They also have an effective range of about 14" or less from a tank. My guardains can pew from a great distance or just hope inside the serpent. But really it comes down to, scoring units. Cheap & cheeerful - on that premise I could by 5 dire avengers (or two more sqauds than my original 1) but for those extra 40pts I get 5 more bobies and a heavy (but assault) weapon.

Im not sure why people are suggesting an extra autarch. Why am I ever going to voluntairly keep my units in reserves? Everything can engage from DZ ranges (bar the avengers & guard) & ive got star engines for the latter & the former will never want to get out anyways. Its an autarch training command vehicle...

I appreciate the advice & it has helped.. i just disagree with a few overidding statements. I dont mean to troll. Share the love

**Mensla Khaine**

Best way to find out the effectiveness of your army is to keep testing. Let us know how the wraithguards fare.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

I'm curious about the wraithguard too. Are they really worth it in 5th? Slow, short ranged, fearless, easy to spot, small #s, etc. I'm still wondering whether or not to get some and field them.

**Razerous**

Thier slow, short ranged & expensive but they cost as much as a full 10man elite squad (howling banshees, scorps, spears, harlies) but are ultimately stronger and like those above elites make full use size-wise of thier transport removing the issue of being slow & short ranged. 2nd shooty access to the entire board is a nice feeling.

Hordes are my problem.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Hordes definitely are a problem... Sure in a 5 man squad you'll nuke 5 gaunts but that won't help much against a horde of 30 shooting at you. Could you take a small squad in a transport and get them near vehicles and elites?

**Razerous**

Read the list above dude -its exactly what im doing.

Thing with the gaunts is, ive too the warlock power destructor for that purspose.. a h.flamer template (including the wave serpents str 4 ap 4 blast & 3 str 6 shots) should do a good job to flatten any small-ish sized horde.

If 32 gaunts did chage.. id weather it, rely on (for the majority) T6 with a 3+ re-rollable while searching for the affecting synpase creature and gun it to hell.. allowing me to win combat and run those LD5 I4 bugs down

**Grunt_For_Christ**

All I see in the elites category is wraithguard in a transport. That won't help you with tyranid synapse as they're all immune to instant death, so how will that help route hordes? And with what you described here the synapse would be getting a cover save from the big horde anyways since they'd be surrounded with the little buggers, so you probably wouldn't even kill the synapse creatures.

And you're relying on one single template to kill a horde of gaunts? That doesn't seem very wise. Since gaunts will never run if there's synapse close buy you'll have to kill every single one. And with a squad of warriors armed with, say, deathspitters which are minimum strength five or devourers @ s4 you'll have a lot of saves to make on 5 guys. Every single one you lose is a lot of firepower gone.

Furthermore, any tyranid player would never charge wraithguard but get into cover and shoot them with gaunts. Rerolling wounds with fleshborers will eventually force you to make saves and encircle you so that you can't get to bigger, better things like carnifexes and tyrants.

What I meant was, do you have any support squad that could work in conjunction with the wraithguard like a squad of harlies or banshees that could finish off a synapse creature? Guardians won't do much and with your farseer walking she'll get left behind by turn two, wouldn't she? How would your wraithguard get to reroll their 3+ if she's back in the deployment zone? So basically, who's going to help out the wraithguard and/or avengers? Putting them together seems like a good idea but then all your tough units are in one place, leaving the guardians to counter other threats. Is that the kind of thing you're looking to do?

**Razerous**

Avengers aint going anywhere. Thier make mr.falcon a scoring vehicle/objective grabber. The farseer joins the wraithguard unit in the serpent.

Im not relying on a single template to kill 'gaunts' but its a damn sight better than a singing spear or shuriken pistol. If I can shoot at the gaunts (or anything) I can charge them in close-combat, FYI. Although Id quite happily take the firepower from deathspitters/devoured & just look to that re-roll 3+ & t6/transport to help. But id probably go after tyrants/carnifexes with those guys - the good thing about these guys as thier mobile (Like everything else).

Monsterous creature require a 50% concealement which is really going to be provided by warriors or area terrain/buildings. As to shooting what, well everything.

As to supporting elite choice - no not really, not in this point-level game neways. I could change a guardain choice for 100-120pts of elite but thats A: not worth it and B: too hard on the lack of troops. What can help the wraithguard.. good deployement and guardains/many tankshocks.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

I see I see... Your avengers are your scoring unit/land grabbers. That makes a lot more sense. That sounds like a very good plan especially with the farseer actually joining the wraithguard. In my mind that what I was thinking.

And indeed, a template is a lot better than a pistol or a spear... One dead gaunt, woohoo! My concern with putting them into combat with a big squad though is it leaves you open to be charged by those monstrous creatures, in which case the wraithguard's rerollable saves would mean nothing... That's my main concern, but I guess if you pick on smaller squads you could eliminate them immediately anyways.

And I was thinking you'd go after MC's and bigger targets first and I would assume you're smart about deployment so you wouldn't get bogged down with smaller units in the first place.

You're right about not having elites at this point level, but I wish you could. Having a squad of power weapons or a squad that has 15 base attacks would free up your mobile units even more and give you a better chance at bogging down most any army that's probably a lot slower than yours. But the tankshock option is definitely a good one and if that's what the guardian transports are mainly going to be doing that makes the whole list a lot more 'hard hitting', which I assume is what you're going for. Good points all around... The list makes a lot more sense now that all the deployment/tactics are out in the open.

**Razerous**

Apologies I didnt clarify sooner. As for the wraithguard charging nething.. it is an option but yes I would always go after the bigger bugs or wait a few turns (using the farseer to guide the serpent) until I can get good placement on one. If I could nuke a god-fex or crazy tyrant then the guard have just made the points back in 1-salvo. W/ a serpents guns + 5 re-roll to hit wraithcannons + a destructor template I think thats quite possible. If not I loose the squad

Im quite happy with the amount of troops ive got so i wouldnt need to add any/many more at higher levels - Next thing I would add would be a warlock squad w/ destructor, enhance and emboldens mounted in another lazerous mk.1 serpent. Gives me a loverly amount of horde killing power (with say 3-4 h.flamer templates) and a good CC/tarpit unit. Farseer joining them would be optional depending on the mission. Higher points still would see the addition of a second farseer.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

I'd say go after a fex, because you CAN instant kill that because it isn't a synapse (unless it's in range of course). Wraithcannons just insta-kill, right? That would be beautiful against a sniperfex or god-fex. It won't kill a tyrant outright, but with 5 of them it probably would, you're certainly right on that.

I like the idea of a warlock squad too. Put that against any fex or even a tyrant and you could take it down. And though their save would be wasted against gaunts, they'd be great against stealers too with all those templates... Then rending means nothing.

I'm going to take some of your ideas for my eldar army actually... I have 2 serpents and 20 avengers. I should think of putting my council in there and maybe get a falcon too.

**whitedragon**

I would strip some gear off the serpents, swap the wraithguard for 5 fire dragons, and get rid of the falcon. Actually, with all the points you save, you could buy the DA their own serpent and turn the falcon into a third fireprism.

EDIT:

For CC, a small unit of warlocks to accompany the farseer are pretty tough in CC, and can ride in the falcon with him if you choose to keep it.

**Razerous**

That gains me less heavy-weapons fire & more small arms fire. And an extra vehicle.

The differeance between firedragons & wraithguard can be surmised in two points 1) Monolith. Simple as really. 2) One-shot wonder compared to actual staying power. I know I could get a few more & equip the exarch akin to the warlocks loadout but its really down to those two things - I did concider it.

The serpents are gun boats. THe mk.2 is really really fast. If I take equipement off they'll shoot alot less. Which is just no good.

Edit: Aside from the fighting prowess of a warlock, farseer and 5 wraithguard in CC, I dont want or need any CC elements. Anything engaged in h2h cant be shot at.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Good point with the fire dragons vs wraithguard. The point I think is this: How fast can you get to where you need to get to? Fire dragons have great weapons but little CC prowess. Wraithguard don't have any either, but have more staying power thanks to high toughness. And the warlock will definitely help with the powers he can take to make them even more survivable. Only MC's will decimate them but hopefully that's what the guard will actually bag while they're out of safety.

**whitedragon**

Firedragons' AP1 is plenty deadly to a monolith at half the price of a wraithguard. The meltas are also much more deadly to anything else with an AV then the wraithguard.

**Razerous**

The wraithguard weapon glances on 3's pens on 5's. That the equivelent of a strength 10 weapon vs AV13. Its (only?!) ap 2 so by-bye termies (yes dragons ap 1

) and can instant death anything. Shame it isnt more of a unclassical rule thus answerable to the eternal warrior USR.

Fire dragons wanting to shoot at a monolith will need to hit 6 times to get one glance at +1 to the damage table. Thats pretty poor, I fight a necron player fairly often. Thier only really much better than wraithguard @ 6" which is a pretty small threat area.

As for the return fire - 4+ saves t3 will loose those points four times as fast than the double-priced T6 3+ Guard. I wont keep saying it but its as simple as.

**whitedragon**

Razerous wrote:Its (only?!) ap 2 so by-bye termies (yes dragons ap 1 ) and can instant death anything. Shame it isnt more of a unclassical rule thus answerable to the eternal warrior USR.

Are you implying that Wraithcannons override Eternal Warrior? Because that is certainly not the case. Wraithcannon causes "Instant Death regardless of toughness." Eternal Warrior, however, says "Immune to Instant Death." Sounds like a done deal. If you are Eternal Warrior, then you never get instant death'd.

**Razerous**

Nope, im not. I ment its a shame the wraithcannon rules are quite standard and Thus answerable (have to adhere) to the Eternal warrior rules. Damn ghazzie/hive tyrants!

Now the SAG rules, when it roles a 6,6 (i think..) is quite clear that you simply remove the model - Id prefer a ruling like that for the wraithcannon. Id also prefer instant burgers, Anti-gravity chocolate and democarcy.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

The fact that wraithcannons autoglance and autopen regardless of AV is I think more effective than meltas considering there is no roll for penetration. You just roll for the damage and that's it. Considering anything that's AV14 all the way around that goes a long way.

**Razerous**

Oh another point over the dragons (AV 1 is good but not worrying about 6" death range and armor-facing is nice) is that wraithguard are fearless and wont run away even if annhilated down to one model. Im no quite sure what happens to a lone warlock but I can kinda wait till I come to that bridge.

Most AV14 vehicles are also troop carriers & I have to be careful popping transports as the units that survive the bailout can (maybe?) charge me.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Remember that fearless is the bane of CC now... If a transport does go down and you do get assaulted by 10 berserkers or something you might not die, but taking 3 or 4 extra 3+ probably will mean the end of you. At the same time, T3 S3 dragons will go down just as easily, but I have an aversion to fearlessness now. I play bugs.

But your point still stands, having a full 12" with full power and not worrying about armour facing is superior to melta in every way. Taking out chance for me is always good and getting a hit with a roll of one dice and not having to worry about placing every model just right appeals to me.

**DAaddict**

I understand wanting to keep it cheap and thus the guardians but if you can lay your hands on stormguardians I think you would fit your mobile theme better...

10 Stormguardians w 2 fusion or flamers. 92 pts
35 more points and add a warlock with destructor.

No sit back and shoot but then again with all your serpents flitting about dropping 3 S6 and a TL S4 blast template, it might be nice on about turn 3 or so to drop out 2 flamers and a heavy flamer or light up a landraider with 2 fusion guns and a witchblade.

Rather than wraithguard, I would rather look at a retinue of warlocks to go with the farseer. While the wraithcannon is awesome, all those S9 witchblade attacks can make pretty short work of armor too. Throw in a singing spear and they can do the deed at the same range as wraithcannon. T6 AC 3+ or T3 Invulnerable 4+ with rerolls... pretty much the same league.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

I guess it's a question of how close you want to get to the enemy. Do you want to be locked in combat to kill it so you get a consolidation move or stand a little bit away and plink at it.

Good point on the invulnerable saves too. t6 I think is more durable than t3 as you'll be forced to make many fewer saves and I don't think you'll be going up against a lot of AP2 or better weapons as you'll be assaulting vehicles or MC's in the backfield or characters out on their own, right?

**Razerous**

DAaddict wrote:I understand wanting to keep it cheap and thus the guardians but if you can lay your hands on stormguardians I think you would fit your mobile theme better...

10 Stormguardians w 2 fusion or flamers. 92 pts
35 more points and add a warlock with destructor.

No sit back and shoot but then again with all your serpents flitting about dropping 3 S6 and a TL S4 blast template, it might be nice on about turn 3 or so to drop out 2 flamers and a heavy flamer or light up a landraider with 2 fusion guns and a witchblade.

Rather than wraithguard, I would rather look at a retinue of warlocks to go with the farseer. While the wraithcannon is awesome, all those S9 witchblade attacks can make pretty short work of armor too. Throw in a singing spear and they can do the deed at the same range as wraithcannon. T6 AC 3+ or T3 Invulnerable 4+ with rerolls... pretty much the same league.

Yar - I do like the flamey guardains. I may have one squad equipped like that although for the warlock & destructor (so nessicary to go the full whack) its 35pts I may find difficult to scrimp. As it stands these guardies are long ranged. For the points atleast one s.guardie squad would be better. (Edit - one flamey squad fits in quite well!)
On the flip side - if I give any/all of them singing spears I reduce thier H2H effectiveness eventually down to that of the wraithguard. I4/2A on charge. T3 4++ > t6 3+ though. > = better than, right?

As for warlocks.. again ive concidered these guys which are nearly the same points with psychic powers (meaning I can get about 7-8 of em) but it all came down to one thing - ap2. I want some decent anti-infantry slaying capacity, although I kinda do have this in the prisms. Hmm.
On the flip side if I start handing out singing spears to allow for decent anti-armor capabilities (a requirement from this unit) I start reducing thier effectiveness in H2H eventually down to that of the wraithguard. Although T3 4++ is better than T6 with a 3+ especially on the re-roll due to power weapons.

**wuestenfux**

The wraithguard will be going against things they can easilly kill or prime targets. Thier mobile enough to do so.

Do the math and you will see that 5 Wraithguard eventually will not achieve what they are supposed to do.