Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm new to 5th edition and have only played a few small skirmishes (trying to learn the rules) and I haven't got to field any bikers yet. I read a lot of these threads and I hear general contempt for Ork Nob Bikers. Looking into my codex, I'm trying to understand why Nob Bikers are better than regular Ork Warbikers. Nob bikers are much more expensive for comparable stats. Could someone please clarify this?

It's more the options than the stats. Well, except for wounds. Nob bikers have two wounds, while normal bikers only have one (despite a misprint in the most recent printing of the codex that says they have two, as well.)

Also nob bikers can take a pain boy giving them feel no pain which is an additional 4+ save after their armor/cover save. This, along with two wounds, makes them significantly tougher to kill. Plus you can give them all different equipment so that wounds must be allocated to each model separately. If you do this right, this really makes the squad hard to kill for a number of reasons. (stacking all the heavy weapons fire on one model so long as it's accompanied by small arms fire, taking single wounds on unwounded models when there are already wounded models, etc.)

Finally, you can give them all power claws. This makes them very effective in hand to hand.

Oh, and you can take a special character that makes them troops so they can hold objectives. Although I believe that same character has the same effect on regular warbikers.

Got'cha! I didn't check my errata, I see it now, only 1 wound for bikers and all of the rest does make a huge difference. Still very expensive though.

People used to run whole armies of that?!?! Now I get it, thanks.

GoFenris wrote:Got'cha! I didn't check my errata, I see it now, only 1 wound for bikers and all of the rest does make a huge difference. Still very expensive though.

People used to run whole armies of that?!?! Now I get it, thanks.

Yes, they're insanely expensive. Which is their draw back.

I'm not such a huge fan, myself. But they are good.

Watch out for Gaunt Bubbled Geen Stealers /w Implat Attack.
There one of the few things that can beat them most of the time for a cost effective list.

Doesn't seem feasable for a long term army. More like a gimmick, which is why I saw "flavor of the month army" and "cheese army" terms batted about. I guess Nob Bikers might be really useful as a unit in a large scale game.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm just now really getting into the full rules so this helps understand some of the subtlety.

psf3077 wrote:Watch out for Gaunt Bubbled Geen Stealers /w Implat Attack.
There one of the few things that can beat them most of the time for a cost effective list.

Thanks, I appreciate the heads up but I don't think I'd try to put all of my eggs in one basket. I usually go for a more balanced force with tweaks specific to a mission or enemy army. But then again, I haven't played a full blown game in years so I'll take any advice.

You don't need to write off Nob bikers though. They are perfectly fine and an awesome asset to a 'speed freaks' army, or as a flanking unit in a foot 'sloggin' army.

What you do is build them with cheapness in mind, like big choppas, and only a couple of power claws in the list, while keeping the number of them down to like 5 or so with a painboy makes for a relatively inexpensive yet devastating unit that wont' be too much points wise (still costs as much as a little more than a unit of terminators though) where you have to sacrifice the rest of your army for.

I've used them and I don't 'cheese' them by making them all different either. And I have great success with them, not because they are dangerous by themselves, but because I keep their points down they work great with a solid army list.

Regular bikers have much more firepower point-for-point than nob bikers are. Nob bikers are much better protected because of the painboy, also, a warboss makes the nob bikers troops, whereas the bikers need wazdakka to be troops. Personally, I like regular bikers more, because you can have the mobility, and remain a more balanced list.

I agree that they are good addition to a KoS army. I plan on using 5+Painboy+Warboss on bikes for a very mobile tough as nails tank hunting unit. The unit i'm running costs me over 500 points (includes warboss) however the boss's PK and the other 2 PK nobz (others have BC) is about the only thing that can really scratch AV14. So I figured that the bikes are the most mobile way to get the PK there.

Okay I guess I understand the "cheese" of the nob bikers now.

Today I played 750 pt skirmish against space marines. Because of this post and others with general ire towards Nob Bikers, I ran a unit of eight, fully loaded with a painboy, because I had to see what the hubbub was about.

My opponent has even less experienced than me. I swept his five man Termie unit then Dreadnought in two turns without a single casualty (did takes wounds, though). It was frankly scary (although much more frightening for him, no doubt).

For future reference (and so I can pass it on to him as I don't think he'll read any of these threads) what's the common defense for that kind of ?

I don't have his SM codex so I can't pore over his list.

GoFenris wrote:Okay I guess I understand the "cheese" of the nob bikers now.

Today I played 750 pt skirmish against space marines. Because of this post and others with general ire towards Nob Bikers, I ran a unit of eight, fully loaded with a painboy, because I had to see what the hubbub was about.

My opponent has even less experienced than me. I swept his five man Termie unit then Dreadnought in two turns without a single casualty (did takes wounds, though). It was frankly scary (although much more frightening for him, no doubt).

For future reference (and so I can pass it on to him as I don't think he'll read any of these threads) what's the common defense for that kind of ?

I don't have his SM codex so I can't pore over his list.

Any wounds caused by Terminator powerfists and Dreadnought Close Combat weapons should have meant an instant-killed nob biker. I think you were playing it wrong.

Perhaps he was lucky and only the Sergeant got him

Also did you remember that you cannot take the warbikes coversave in CC?

Not saying you didn't, but even for Biker Nobs to escape a Dreadnought AND a termie Squad unharmed seems a little to improbable.

As for Anti-Biker tactics, for space marines anyway, its Vindicators, Vindicators and more Vindicators. Seriously, a Pair of Vindicators will feth yo gak up. if he Brings 3 and is able to get your bikers in range, forget about it!

Well, dice were also against him and favored me. Regardless, just the shear number of dice I rolled compered to him made it frightening.

Vindicators, I will let him know, thanks.

A pair of vindicators will only have about one turn to shoot.

Against orks? they will have lots of times to shoot. Nothing can Crack its AV 13 at any sort of real range bar Overly Expensive lootas, and even then its not my any means certain.

If you turbo boost and spread out the bikes all 2" apart they will destroy the vindicators the next turn.

G

True, but that means you have now committed 2 (and if lucky 3) turns with your lovely 500+ Point unit to killing a 125 point tank, while the rest of my army does its thing.

Mission Accomplished!

But what else in your army is going to kill 10-22 nob bikers?

The 4 Marines I take to every Nob you get?

Sorry if I am coming across as argumentative I am just curious.

But how would 4 marines even kill 1 biker? Have you ever played vs. a true nob biker army? Each of the two squads will hit a SM unit and wipe it with 20-30 PK attacks and take maybe 1 casualty in return IF you have a fist.

Thats why you shoot at it BEFORE they charge. or Gum them up with sacrificial Units that they then wipe out, slowing them down and letting you blow the hell out of them

But even rapid firing you arent going to kill anything. Even with heavy weapons, I still get a 3+ cover and if you do happen to get through that I will just pop scrubs like big choppa and normal boyz. Also marines dont really have any sacrificial units.

I know its not impossible Im just saying its super heavy in the orks favor. Other than TH SS Termies I dont think you can even build a marine list that is in their favor.

3 Vindicators and as you said Th+SS termies will decimate Nob Bikers

???

No, TH SS termies on foot would get creamed. As we have said vindis do nothing of value, and just arent a real flexible unit to begin with.

TH SS in raiders will win, I have built that list and beat nob bikers with it, but that list isnt good against much else.

Well its all about generalship. Just because you have nob bikers doesn't mean you auto-win.

Nob Bikers against new Guard will be creamed if the Guard player remembers to bring a Squad of Russes

I feel there is some confusion regarding the Twin Linked Dakkagun.

Do Nobs get them? The FAQ does not address this at all. I have read that some posters on DakkaDakka assume not.

On page 46 of the Ork Codex under Warbikes it says that, "Warbikes have noisy twin-linked dakkaguns mounted on thier bikes...."

On page 98 of the Ork Codex under Nobz it says that, "...Nob Bikers are mounted on Warbikes..." and under options it says,
"...-Nob Bikers................+25 points per model...."

Warbikers are 25pts by themselves. It would seem to me the answer is yes, Nob Bikers also have the Twin Linked Dakkagun. Is there another reference, source or clarification I don't know about?

Any Model on a Warbike uses the Warbike rules as detailed on page icantbearsedtocheck which means evey model on a Warbike, whether its a base item or a Wargear purchase, has the Twin Linked Dakkaguns, the Exhaust Cloud Rule and the regular Bike Rules (+1T and Extra Movement)

Gwar! wrote:Well its all about generalship. Just because you have nob bikers doesn't mean you auto-win.

Nob Bikers against new Guard will be creamed if the Guard player remembers to bring a Squad of Russes

Oh definitely. Maneuvering is the most important part of beating nobs.

as good as they seem, MANZ in a forcefielded battlewagon tend to do a hell of alot more damage

and GWAR, its nice to know you know the counter, but you're acting like they're totally useless. no need to dump on someone just for asking about a unit

NaZ